If that is the case, then it leads back to my previous comments, now moderated, about how Cryptic are essentially indentured servants, and also if that is the case, a Feedback thread is pointless, official or otherwise, since such feedback will more then likely not be received by "those who decide."
so what are we doing then??
Although I agree people shouldn't be throwing opinions about without testing first, moderating posts so I don't know what they said in full is not on. If I want to reply to someone else's feedback I need to know their thoughts and opinions in full and in their own words, whether they're judged to be on the straight and narrow or not!
I'll probably get moderated for this, which'll be a first, but how can we provide constructive feedback without bouncing off each other's full thoughts and contributions?
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
If you haven't gone onto Tribble and observed things first hand (or at least second hand from a video), you are not providing feedback. You are providing commentary based on hearsay that will get in the way of the Devs gathering and providing feedback.
Please test the new stuff on Tribble, then come back and post. Please keep your replies to the point and on topic. You may have positive and/or negative impressions and that's fine. There is ZERO room for having arguments in this thread.
After this, I will be actively moderating this topic.
~Bluegeek
With all due respect, there's a lot of people that have tested and posted, but no ones responding to them. Granted AdjudicatorHawk as been ill, surely he's not the only one that respond to people on here. But from the majority of the comments I've seen and from personally testing on tribble over the week. Most people have hit the nail on the head. And people are bound to have arguments in the forums, it happens to some extent with almost every post.
What I feel is worse is that people were waiting for the lifetime sale. I know I did(was saving pennies and stuff) and I like the game and intend to buy it.
But I fear that from some twisted marketing perspective its going to be:
''Look we introduced new crafting and suddenly there is increase in sales... the limited time offer had nothing to do with it. Really.''
To add to my previous points:
+vote for the salvage and reverse engineering option.
And devs, really, postpone this update and go trough the suggestions in this thread - there is some really good stuff.
The system on tribble is worse than the current one on live.
I have read most of the messages in this thread and did not want to add to the negativity or have my constructive proposals buried under them. So I am posting the links to my proposals below so that Cryptic (and any of you), can easily go to them and view them. (Click the links below.)
The proposals help address two issues that spell doom for the crafting system (randomization and dilithium tax). I am trying to ensure the goal of the company can be reached (the spending of more dilithium) as well as player assurances concerning getting something of value when desired, but before loss of materials.
Thanks for taking the time to read this!
Operational Support Team
Squishing Bugs for a better future
Been on and off a little on tribble and looking around doing some basic stuff to get to the real crafting so no real opinion on that yet.
But i was missing the kit stuff you could make kits with the old system but im not seeing it in this one.
Would be cool as most of my characters on the live server still use old kits, its hard to get all the stuff i want right now as most never seem to drop for me and if they do they are white X or lower.
And would like to know are we going to be able to make them in this system ?
"Good" and "Evil" are purely subjective concepts, given credence only by the prevailing opinion of the masses
Although I agree people shouldn't be throwing opinions about without testing first, moderating posts so I don't know what they said in full is not on. If I want to reply to someone else's feedback I need to know their thoughts and opinions in full and in their own words, whether they're judged to be on the straight and narrow or not!
I'll probably get moderated for this, which'll be a first, but how can we provide constructive feedback without bouncing off each other's full thoughts and contributions?
But that's the question isn't it, do the devs want constructive feed back. How many times has something come out on tribble, we give our feed back, and even solutions to the issue, only for it to hit holodeck pretty much as it started out as?
Ok, I've managed to read this thread up to page 10 & I can't take anymore.
EVERYONE is pretty much telling YOU Cryptic, that:
1. Old/current crafting system is/was broken ---> New crafting system is FUBAR (frakked up beyond all recognition).
2. Old/current Doff UI ... Not bad, Not bad AT ALL ---> New Doff UI is a SNAFU leading to a FUBAR situation.
3. "This is your brain:"
Player buys lockbox key(s) to play LOCKBOX lottery ( WITH a VERY good chance of at least getting SOMETHING useful, that in the worst case can be sold on the Exchange for a decent amount of EC.
"This is your brain ON DRUGS:"
Player sinks Dilithium into Doff lottery for CHANCE at .... Vendor Trash ---> "Any Question?"
''Look we introduced new crafting and suddenly there is increase in sales... the limited time offer had nothing to do with it. Really.''
It looks more to me like the crafting update is giving some people cold feet. I've heard a lot of people who WERE thinking of getting LTS deciding not to after seeing what they did to doffing in the crafting fallout.
Question: can we use the data drop on Defera for crafting? I have data samples from Defera and I'm not sure what happens to them when Season 9.5 hits Holodeck.
Well, the cybernetic armatures I had didn't seem to convert, so we'll see. P1 podcast was interesting, let's see how things go over the next few patches.
Speaking of the Defera items, it'd be nice if weapon upgrades were added to crafting; I'd love to have a mod slot added to my hand weapons where I could slot in the remodulator. Which could then be used for other mods when not fighting the Borg.
Just spotted a major flaw in the new system at higher level. At 20k Dilithium a high end crafter can only craft 1 item per 3 days. Not only that but how would someone level up crafting when you can only produce one item every 3 days after heavy grinding? How many years would it take to get to level 20 crafting with the limit of 1 item per 3 days?
Do we really want a crafting system that limits us to 1 random item every 3 days?
EDItT The higher the level you get the less items you can craft and the longer it takes to craft. the 8k Dilithium limit per day has a massive impact on crafting speed.
I have listen to the Priority One Podcast and the interview and if what have say is true will be great lets hope i`ts going to happen http://priorityonepodcast.com/po179/
Playing around with the system with my Level 50 toon and its a pain to actually craft anything useful as all the high level gear requires components that are crafting level restricted. So basically to level up you've got to build a load of low level gear (hence exchange will be flooded when this goes live and prices crash or it all ends up as vendor trash), so not great for existing toons to level up.
Flipping that on its head and looking at it from a new toons perspective my gut feeling (I haven't actually tried it yet) is that given the rate at which a toon can be levelled in this game that the toon will level up a lot faster than it can level crafting (especially if you try and keep each school level, but even just focusing on one school). So while a toon may be able to craft useful stuff at say Lt grade by the time it reaches Captain or Admiral grades I suspect it'll be several crafting levels behind and unable to provide itself with useful gear (due to the times required to level each system). While that may be ok if you're looking at crafting to provide income makes crafting rather useless to help level that toon.
Edit:- Just going to caveat my previous comment for new toons, rank 0 (30xp) and rank 1 (260xp) seem fairly easy to get (so up to Mk IV grade gear), but the jump to 10kxp for rank 3 school is a very big jump and too big in my opinion and needs trimmed down significantly (along with future levels but I haven't gone that far yet).
Also as a side note, Subspace Modules in beam school are coming up as emitter arrays.
20,000 dilithium for a chance at a MK12, with a chance at purple, with randomly determined mods?????????????
By that logic, how many times would we have to roll the dice (at 20k a pop) to get a MK12 weapon with purple quality and the exact three mods we want? Say [acc]x2 [CritH]?
For the record, at current prices 20,000 dilithium is approximately 130 zen. I'm sure we can all do the math here.
Here's a thought cryptic: Fixed (reasonable) costs for MK and quality. Let us choose the mods on the weapon/shield etcetera. I for one would happily shell out 15k per weapon if it guaranteed a MK12 weapon with 3 [acc] modifiers, or some combination thereof.
And no, I dont mean randomly select 60 possible permeatations and dump them in a massive unwieldy list of doom, like you did for the Fleet Cores and embassy boffs. Actually improve the UI in a simple way and give a drop down bar for mod one, mod two, mod three etcetra.
But as it stands, why on andoria would I pay 20,000 dilithium, plus other time consuming junk, for a tiny chance at desirable very rare weapon, when I could just pop down my fleet starbase and nab myself a a weapon guaranteed to be MK12 ultra rare with two [acc] mods for less than half that cost?
Thats not to speak of Elite Disruptors, which are vastly superior to anything that can be crafted and are still several thousand dilithium less expensive.
Speaking of which, why limit it to very rare? I would love to be able to guarantee craft an ultra rare weapon and once again pick the mods (ACCX4 for PVP anyone? yum)
A final suggestion/request. Open up new mods/flavours/types for max level crafters. For example, I would love to be able to craft Disruptor weapons which look and sound like Phasers, ideally without giving up another mod like Acc. Just make the aesthetic cost an extra 2k of dilithium.
More broadly, additional competitive modifier options for weapons, like Arc on DHC's, Elite weapon mods (eg crafting an elite diruptor with 3 acc mods instead of 1ccx2 dmg) would be cool.
Let us craft superior versions of weapons/consoles/stuff we obtained from old z-store ships, like crafting Elite Andorian Phasers (which should be in the fleet store anyway, but I digress). Same goes for lockbox ships and lobi stuff. Tie the unlock to ownership of the original and let us upgrade our Spiral Waves, Chronoton DBB and suchlike to MK12 with user selected mods.
Give us the ability flavour and upgrade our ships and I'm sure may people would be ecstatic and shell out dilithium (and purchase zen for dilithium).
In the words of the klingon crafting NPC dude in first city: "a warrior's best weapon is the one he forges himself". I would totally agree with this, if we were the ones designing our weapon and not an RNG.
If it goes live as is I shant bother. Its the one thing that could keep me interested even after the butchering of the DOFF UI and insane removal of exploration clusters.
PS Am I missing something, or is this going to be torture to level up for alts? Even if they listened to our suggestions its a big grind to do once, but do it on multiple characters will be tedium incarnate no matter how rich the rewards.
Got a cat? Have 10 minutes to help someone make the best degree dissertation of all time?
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
When I first heard that the new crafting system required doffs I wasn't happy, mostly due to the way you received rewards in the doff system or lack of it. Seeing the system here it seems much better, although I do hope when you reach level 20 in the crafting system you are guaranteed a purple item, otherwise there is little point maxing out your character.
I understand you need a team to craft in Star Trek, as seen in the episodes, as item are often larger and more complex then crafting a simple sword. I only regret that the crafting system doesn't use your bridge officers. Scotty, Worf, La Forge, Data etc are all seen Crafting in the show. How great would it be to use the Boffs to help you craft. As with the Doff's, purple Boff would be better than a green Boff. Also the Boff would gain crafting experience that would help with the crafting, gaining crafting ranks like the Capitan. They could gain traits/skills when they reach a certain level. The Boff are massively under used these day, used in the crafting system would be more trek.
Disappointed that maxed out crafters will not receive anything when new system hits, could at least get a crafting bundle.
Well, the cybernetic armatures I had didn't seem to convert, so we'll see. P1 podcast was interesting, let's see how things go over the next few patches.
I just listened to the Priority One podcast (http://priorityonepodcast.com/po179/ starts around 22mins) and can honestly say I will still not use the crafting system.
I currently have a master crafter and the signals coming from the Captain Geko introduce some really good ideas but alot of the fundamental problems that I have seem to be locked in.
1. Randomness - There will not be a 100% chance to craft a mkXII item. You can get close by getting to level 20, but never get a guaranteed success. The best of the best gear will be crit reliant which might mean I have to craft the same thing over and over and over again, blowing through all my DIL in order to get something really good. With DIL costs involved, I won't invest. Captain Geko while saying that the costs were not set, but indicted that he thought they were reasonable. Crafting system is going to be the new lock box 2.0.
2. Level-up time - Having already invested time in the current system and having to start again is a pain. They will NOT do anything to stop anyone having to start from the beginning, so even if I can currently craft Aegis gear i will not be able to in the new system for months. The length of time it takes a end game toon to actually get something to replace fleet or reputation gear (or even anything other than vendor trash) is extremely long and grindy. The only way to get real traction spend the 20k DIL to for the mkXII gear (which you will have almost 0 chance of getting anything other than a white) as the basic stuff gives you almost nothing. If you thought STO was a grind before this will take the biscuit.
3. Crafting time - The experience gained to level up the crafting school depends on the length of time of the crafting project. I understand this from a lore prospective, but is terrible from a gameplay prospective. Its just a way to charge zen to speed up crafting time so istead of waiting weeks to get that mkXII item you spent ages you can get it now for the low low price of 125 zen (made up number, but you get the point). This is an absolute Downgrade from the current system.
4. Doff Integration - If you though certain purple doffs are expensive, a whole new set are going to get a whole lot more expensive. They want to get the doff system onto mobile platforms so the new design is designed to suit, which in my opinion is for the worse.
5. Dilithium sink - It was mentioned that they will replace all the daily missions (eventually!). Captain Geko does not feel that this is a new crafting system is a dilithium sink because this will be replacing the dilithium store. First off, end game gear (i.e. mk XII purples) could not be brought from the dilithium store anyway. Secondly it was a one-off cost to get the items, no month long grind spending dilithium to get to the point where you can get the higher tier items. They will also not be increasing the daily refinement caps.
6. Re-balance of item costs - This is pure and simply a way to charge more for items that people actually want. This, as explained, sounds like an across the board general increase in price. While this might (and I stress might, because early indications are that it decreases the amount gained from EC farming) be good for vendor junk but will ultimately justify an increase in dilithium prices for crafting weapons.
With all that being said there are some steps in the right direction:
1. Up-gradable gear - Captain Geko indicated that we will be able to change modifies, which will with season X-2 meaning that we should be able to change modifiers at additional costs. While we might be able to get Ultra-rare or even gold gear it sounds as though is will be crit dependent. Even current set gear like the MACO set might be upgradable to get new modifiers and/or set bonuses. It sounds as though this will be a huge cost for people running these over and over again to get the crit that will allow this to happen, but has only been teased so we can only speculate.
2. New craftable exclusives - New sets and MAYBE even a new craftable ship will be available to craft in the future provided you have enough levels in the system. I am betting it will be something like the Delta Flyer but still cost as much as currently getting it from the c-store.
TLDR: Captain Geko was on a pod cast talking about the changes and I still have fundamental issues with the system but there maybe be steps in the right direction long down the line.
Disappointed that maxed out crafters will not receive anything when new system hits, could at least get a crafting bundle.
It has been said that there will be a reward for those who have maxed out the current system, however, said reward has yet to be determined / mentioned / implemented.
If I was to prognosticate, I'd venture the reward will be some sort of level bonus to the current system - either all schools will start at Level 2-3, or the player will be able to apply ~5 "free" levels to a school of their choice.
Either method should unlock one of the crafting slots as well, which is just as big of a bonus as a "crafter's package"...
Don't forget, also, that all the current data samples will convert over, so many people will be "fairly well supplied" for the new system...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
It has been said that there will be a reward for those who have maxed out the current system, however, said reward has yet to be determined / mentioned / implemented.
If I was to prognosticate, I'd venture the reward will be some sort of level bonus to the current system - either all schools will start at Level 2-3, or the player will be able to apply ~5 "free" levels to a school of their choice.
Either method should unlock one of the crafting slots as well, which is just as big of a bonus as a "crafter's package"...
Don't forget, also, that all the current data samples will convert over, so many people will be "fairly well supplied" for the new system...
Nope, Captain Geko said in the Priority One Podcast that there will be no rewards for people who have maxed the current crafting system.
I had several issues with the system on tribble. However having just listened to the Priority One podcast they have all been alleviated. I am now looking forward the the crafting system as it grows. One problem was there was minimal information how "unfinished" the system is. It appeared that the system on tribble was almost the finished product. I look forward to crafting updates!
Since there's an argument about the costs of crafting, I would suggest:
* Offer crafting at FULL resource price, whereby the item can be sold on the Exchange.
* Offer crafting at HALF the resource price, whereby the item is account locked. (Not by one toon, but account-wide.) The item cannot be sold on the Exchange.
If you're seeking to control an influx of Exchange item dumping/selling, then this is an option.
But that's the question isn't it, do the devs want constructive feed back. How many times has something come out on tribble, we give our feed back, and even solutions to the issue, only for it to hit holodeck pretty much as it started out as?
And they wonder why everyone is up in arms, because you've hit the nail on the head that's pretty much precisely what happens. Stuff needs more testing time, and from earlier in development so that it can be sorted out better earlier on to avoid these issues.
But they also need to tell us in the patch notes if things are basically in Alpha so that we know that.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
1. Randomness - There will not be a 100% chance to craft a mkXII item. You can get close by getting to level 20, but never get a guaranteed success. The best of the best gear will be crit reliant which might mean I have to craft the same thing over and over and over again, blowing through all my DIL in order to get something really good...
Not picking on losdos but I just wanted to run some data from my time testing the crafting system that relates to what was said.
I leveled up the Shield school and took down the numbers on quality chances from level 15 and above..
Quality........Lv15...Lv16...Lv17...Lv18...Lv19...Lv20......
Very Rare.....20%...26%...33%...33%...33%...33%.....
Rare.............33%...40%...47%...47%...47%...47%.....
Uncommon...29%...25%...20%...20%...20%...20%.....
Common......18%...10%....0%.....0%.....0%.....0%......
That was with only a purple doff that added +30 to skill.
So with the crafted item requiring 150 skill, I broke even at level 15 in the school which gave me 150 skill (10 skill per level). The above percentages are for my skill at each level +30 for the purple doff, example: Lv17 was 170+30 or 200 total skill).
It is interesting that there is a hard cap at +50 skill above what is needed, where the added levels do not increase chance any further. Granted not all items have the same amount of skill required so having a higher level will benefit you when crafting those items that require more. But in this case for the AEGIS shield it required 150 skill and at Lv17 without catalysts I was getting the max benefit. The question is will catalyst allow you to bypass this hard cap and obtain better than a 33% chance?
Material Conversion is...one at a time? I'm going to break my mouse holding down ctrl and clicking. :P
Yes, I have >13,000 mats, so you want me to click exchange over 13000 times? That's insane.
Plus because of the above issue I'm gonna have old style mats for a long time, so why can't I stick THOSE in the R&D inventory slots?
Why isn't there a choice to get what I want? I need 2 Hydrazine gas, but I get a freaking dozen of other gasses before I get what I need? More G-damn RANDOMNESS! :mad:
If I have to spend Dil for a RANDOMLY buffed thing (which is stupid), it better be at the very least give me a VR Mk XII anything less is unacceptable!
Random buffs is stupid. Anything that gives us random buffs should cost alot less in Dil (which is stupid) than Fleet or Rep weapons where we KNOW WHAT WE ARE BUYING!
The only way random buffs and random quality should be in the crafting system is if ONLY crafting mats are consumed, no Dil!
Mk XII gear with a 33% VR chance means you will have to run it an average of 3 times to get a purple. That means we need an average of 6 VR components (2 per mkXII item) at 20k dilithium each. You will on average crit 1-2 times on the component doff crafting assignment.
We are looking at between 60-80k dilithium (40k if lucky and up to 120k if unlucky) to get a single VR mkXII item on average (at crafting level 20).
Seems way too expensive to me.
Might be different when using Lv20 mkXII shield chances rather than the Aegis shield numbers if you have them to hand.
Comments
Although I agree people shouldn't be throwing opinions about without testing first, moderating posts so I don't know what they said in full is not on. If I want to reply to someone else's feedback I need to know their thoughts and opinions in full and in their own words, whether they're judged to be on the straight and narrow or not!
I'll probably get moderated for this, which'll be a first, but how can we provide constructive feedback without bouncing off each other's full thoughts and contributions?
With all due respect, there's a lot of people that have tested and posted, but no ones responding to them. Granted AdjudicatorHawk as been ill, surely he's not the only one that respond to people on here. But from the majority of the comments I've seen and from personally testing on tribble over the week. Most people have hit the nail on the head. And people are bound to have arguments in the forums, it happens to some extent with almost every post.
But I fear that from some twisted marketing perspective its going to be:
''Look we introduced new crafting and suddenly there is increase in sales... the limited time offer had nothing to do with it. Really.''
To add to my previous points:
+vote for the salvage and reverse engineering option.
And devs, really, postpone this update and go trough the suggestions in this thread - there is some really good stuff.
The system on tribble is worse than the current one on live.
Instead of feeling...defcon OMG..
Today I am in the position of "go on..I'm listening..."
Nagging doubt based on past performance remain but I have put my pitchfork away.....for now :P
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1150141
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1150191
The proposals help address two issues that spell doom for the crafting system (randomization and dilithium tax). I am trying to ensure the goal of the company can be reached (the spending of more dilithium) as well as player assurances concerning getting something of value when desired, but before loss of materials.
Thanks for taking the time to read this!
Squishing Bugs for a better future
It's difficult to understand if we're giving feedback on issues which are locked/loaded (aside from the community finding last minute bugs). [BETA]
Or if we're commenting on issues which have a chance of being fixed/amended before final release. [ALPHA]
Thank you for the consideration!
Been on and off a little on tribble and looking around doing some basic stuff to get to the real crafting so no real opinion on that yet.
But i was missing the kit stuff you could make kits with the old system but im not seeing it in this one.
Would be cool as most of my characters on the live server still use old kits, its hard to get all the stuff i want right now as most never seem to drop for me and if they do they are white X or lower.
And would like to know are we going to be able to make them in this system ?
But that's the question isn't it, do the devs want constructive feed back. How many times has something come out on tribble, we give our feed back, and even solutions to the issue, only for it to hit holodeck pretty much as it started out as?
EVERYONE is pretty much telling YOU Cryptic, that:
1. Old/current crafting system is/was broken ---> New crafting system is FUBAR (frakked up beyond all recognition).
2. Old/current Doff UI ... Not bad, Not bad AT ALL
3. "This is your brain:"
Player buys lockbox key(s) to play LOCKBOX lottery ( WITH a VERY good chance of at least getting SOMETHING useful, that in the worst case can be sold on the Exchange for a decent amount of EC.
"This is your brain ON DRUGS:"
Player sinks Dilithium into Doff lottery for CHANCE at .... Vendor Trash ---> "Any Question?"
Nicely put, if the options talked about in that interview come to pass, things are looking up.
But at the moment, I'd say it needs serious work, as per my latest TImewarp: http://youtu.be/5-GAKkpWQUQ
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Do we really want a crafting system that limits us to 1 random item every 3 days?
EDItT The higher the level you get the less items you can craft and the longer it takes to craft. the 8k Dilithium limit per day has a massive impact on crafting speed.
Flipping that on its head and looking at it from a new toons perspective my gut feeling (I haven't actually tried it yet) is that given the rate at which a toon can be levelled in this game that the toon will level up a lot faster than it can level crafting (especially if you try and keep each school level, but even just focusing on one school). So while a toon may be able to craft useful stuff at say Lt grade by the time it reaches Captain or Admiral grades I suspect it'll be several crafting levels behind and unable to provide itself with useful gear (due to the times required to level each system). While that may be ok if you're looking at crafting to provide income makes crafting rather useless to help level that toon.
Edit:- Just going to caveat my previous comment for new toons, rank 0 (30xp) and rank 1 (260xp) seem fairly easy to get (so up to Mk IV grade gear), but the jump to 10kxp for rank 3 school is a very big jump and too big in my opinion and needs trimmed down significantly (along with future levels but I haven't gone that far yet).
Also as a side note, Subspace Modules in beam school are coming up as emitter arrays.
20,000 dilithium for a chance at a MK12, with a chance at purple, with randomly determined mods?????????????
By that logic, how many times would we have to roll the dice (at 20k a pop) to get a MK12 weapon with purple quality and the exact three mods we want? Say [acc]x2 [CritH]?
For the record, at current prices 20,000 dilithium is approximately 130 zen. I'm sure we can all do the math here.
..............................................................................................
Here's a thought cryptic: Fixed (reasonable) costs for MK and quality. Let us choose the mods on the weapon/shield etcetera. I for one would happily shell out 15k per weapon if it guaranteed a MK12 weapon with 3 [acc] modifiers, or some combination thereof.
And no, I dont mean randomly select 60 possible permeatations and dump them in a massive unwieldy list of doom, like you did for the Fleet Cores and embassy boffs. Actually improve the UI in a simple way and give a drop down bar for mod one, mod two, mod three etcetra.
But as it stands, why on andoria would I pay 20,000 dilithium, plus other time consuming junk, for a tiny chance at desirable very rare weapon, when I could just pop down my fleet starbase and nab myself a a weapon guaranteed to be MK12 ultra rare with two [acc] mods for less than half that cost?
Thats not to speak of Elite Disruptors, which are vastly superior to anything that can be crafted and are still several thousand dilithium less expensive.
Speaking of which, why limit it to very rare? I would love to be able to guarantee craft an ultra rare weapon and once again pick the mods (ACCX4 for PVP anyone? yum)
...............................................................................................................
A final suggestion/request. Open up new mods/flavours/types for max level crafters. For example, I would love to be able to craft Disruptor weapons which look and sound like Phasers, ideally without giving up another mod like Acc. Just make the aesthetic cost an extra 2k of dilithium.
More broadly, additional competitive modifier options for weapons, like Arc on DHC's, Elite weapon mods (eg crafting an elite diruptor with 3 acc mods instead of 1ccx2 dmg) would be cool.
Let us craft superior versions of weapons/consoles/stuff we obtained from old z-store ships, like crafting Elite Andorian Phasers (which should be in the fleet store anyway, but I digress). Same goes for lockbox ships and lobi stuff. Tie the unlock to ownership of the original and let us upgrade our Spiral Waves, Chronoton DBB and suchlike to MK12 with user selected mods.
Give us the ability flavour and upgrade our ships and I'm sure may people would be ecstatic and shell out dilithium (and purchase zen for dilithium).
In the words of the klingon crafting NPC dude in first city: "a warrior's best weapon is the one he forges himself". I would totally agree with this, if we were the ones designing our weapon and not an RNG.
If it goes live as is I shant bother. Its the one thing that could keep me interested even after the butchering of the DOFF UI and insane removal of exploration clusters.
..........................................................
PS Am I missing something, or is this going to be torture to level up for alts? Even if they listened to our suggestions its a big grind to do once, but do it on multiple characters will be tedium incarnate no matter how rich the rewards.
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/87XKSGH
I understand you need a team to craft in Star Trek, as seen in the episodes, as item are often larger and more complex then crafting a simple sword. I only regret that the crafting system doesn't use your bridge officers. Scotty, Worf, La Forge, Data etc are all seen Crafting in the show. How great would it be to use the Boffs to help you craft. As with the Doff's, purple Boff would be better than a green Boff. Also the Boff would gain crafting experience that would help with the crafting, gaining crafting ranks like the Capitan. They could gain traits/skills when they reach a certain level. The Boff are massively under used these day, used in the crafting system would be more trek.
Disappointed that maxed out crafters will not receive anything when new system hits, could at least get a crafting bundle.
I currently have a master crafter and the signals coming from the Captain Geko introduce some really good ideas but alot of the fundamental problems that I have seem to be locked in.
1. Randomness - There will not be a 100% chance to craft a mkXII item. You can get close by getting to level 20, but never get a guaranteed success. The best of the best gear will be crit reliant which might mean I have to craft the same thing over and over and over again, blowing through all my DIL in order to get something really good. With DIL costs involved, I won't invest. Captain Geko while saying that the costs were not set, but indicted that he thought they were reasonable. Crafting system is going to be the new lock box 2.0.
2. Level-up time - Having already invested time in the current system and having to start again is a pain. They will NOT do anything to stop anyone having to start from the beginning, so even if I can currently craft Aegis gear i will not be able to in the new system for months. The length of time it takes a end game toon to actually get something to replace fleet or reputation gear (or even anything other than vendor trash) is extremely long and grindy. The only way to get real traction spend the 20k DIL to for the mkXII gear (which you will have almost 0 chance of getting anything other than a white) as the basic stuff gives you almost nothing. If you thought STO was a grind before this will take the biscuit.
3. Crafting time - The experience gained to level up the crafting school depends on the length of time of the crafting project. I understand this from a lore prospective, but is terrible from a gameplay prospective. Its just a way to charge zen to speed up crafting time so istead of waiting weeks to get that mkXII item you spent ages you can get it now for the low low price of 125 zen (made up number, but you get the point). This is an absolute Downgrade from the current system.
4. Doff Integration - If you though certain purple doffs are expensive, a whole new set are going to get a whole lot more expensive. They want to get the doff system onto mobile platforms so the new design is designed to suit, which in my opinion is for the worse.
5. Dilithium sink - It was mentioned that they will replace all the daily missions (eventually!). Captain Geko does not feel that this is a new crafting system is a dilithium sink because this will be replacing the dilithium store. First off, end game gear (i.e. mk XII purples) could not be brought from the dilithium store anyway. Secondly it was a one-off cost to get the items, no month long grind spending dilithium to get to the point where you can get the higher tier items. They will also not be increasing the daily refinement caps.
6. Re-balance of item costs - This is pure and simply a way to charge more for items that people actually want. This, as explained, sounds like an across the board general increase in price. While this might (and I stress might, because early indications are that it decreases the amount gained from EC farming) be good for vendor junk but will ultimately justify an increase in dilithium prices for crafting weapons.
With all that being said there are some steps in the right direction:
1. Up-gradable gear - Captain Geko indicated that we will be able to change modifies, which will with season X-2 meaning that we should be able to change modifiers at additional costs. While we might be able to get Ultra-rare or even gold gear it sounds as though is will be crit dependent. Even current set gear like the MACO set might be upgradable to get new modifiers and/or set bonuses. It sounds as though this will be a huge cost for people running these over and over again to get the crit that will allow this to happen, but has only been teased so we can only speculate.
2. New craftable exclusives - New sets and MAYBE even a new craftable ship will be available to craft in the future provided you have enough levels in the system. I am betting it will be something like the Delta Flyer but still cost as much as currently getting it from the c-store.
TLDR: Captain Geko was on a pod cast talking about the changes and I still have fundamental issues with the system but there maybe be steps in the right direction long down the line.
It has been said that there will be a reward for those who have maxed out the current system, however, said reward has yet to be determined / mentioned / implemented.
If I was to prognosticate, I'd venture the reward will be some sort of level bonus to the current system - either all schools will start at Level 2-3, or the player will be able to apply ~5 "free" levels to a school of their choice.
Either method should unlock one of the crafting slots as well, which is just as big of a bonus as a "crafter's package"...
Don't forget, also, that all the current data samples will convert over, so many people will be "fairly well supplied" for the new system...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Nope, Captain Geko said in the Priority One Podcast that there will be no rewards for people who have maxed the current crafting system.
* Offer crafting at FULL resource price, whereby the item can be sold on the Exchange.
* Offer crafting at HALF the resource price, whereby the item is account locked. (Not by one toon, but account-wide.) The item cannot be sold on the Exchange.
If you're seeking to control an influx of Exchange item dumping/selling, then this is an option.
Devs: Thank you for your consideration.
And they wonder why everyone is up in arms, because you've hit the nail on the head that's pretty much precisely what happens. Stuff needs more testing time, and from earlier in development so that it can be sorted out better earlier on to avoid these issues.
But they also need to tell us in the patch notes if things are basically in Alpha so that we know that.
Not picking on losdos but I just wanted to run some data from my time testing the crafting system that relates to what was said.
I leveled up the Shield school and took down the numbers on quality chances from level 15 and above..
Quality........Lv15...Lv16...Lv17...Lv18...Lv19...Lv20......
Very Rare.....20%...26%...33%...33%...33%...33%.....
Rare.............33%...40%...47%...47%...47%...47%.....
Uncommon...29%...25%...20%...20%...20%...20%.....
Common......18%...10%....0%.....0%.....0%.....0%......
That was with only a purple doff that added +30 to skill.
So with the crafted item requiring 150 skill, I broke even at level 15 in the school which gave me 150 skill (10 skill per level). The above percentages are for my skill at each level +30 for the purple doff, example: Lv17 was 170+30 or 200 total skill).
It is interesting that there is a hard cap at +50 skill above what is needed, where the added levels do not increase chance any further. Granted not all items have the same amount of skill required so having a higher level will benefit you when crafting those items that require more. But in this case for the AEGIS shield it required 150 skill and at Lv17 without catalysts I was getting the max benefit. The question is will catalyst allow you to bypass this hard cap and obtain better than a 33% chance?
Screenshots:
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff500/Kasyena/aegis19_zps04736610.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff500/Kasyena/aegis20_zps5507360a.jpg
Components operate the same way except that there are only two outcomes, crit (which yields 3 components), or normal (which yields 1).
Examples:
Level....current skill/required skill........crit%.......normal%...
...0................30/50............................11%...........89%.....
...2................50/50............................16%...........84%.....
...5................80/50............................28%...........72%.....
..20..............230/50............................32%..........68%.....
Screenshots:
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff500/Kasyena/component5_zps0895b7df.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff500/Kasyena/component20_zpsa0ca3e5c.jpg
I hope this post was understandable?
Squishing Bugs for a better future
Yes, I have >13,000 mats, so you want me to click exchange over 13000 times? That's insane.
Plus because of the above issue I'm gonna have old style mats for a long time, so why can't I stick THOSE in the R&D inventory slots?
Why isn't there a choice to get what I want? I need 2 Hydrazine gas, but I get a freaking dozen of other gasses before I get what I need? More G-damn RANDOMNESS! :mad:
If I have to spend Dil for a RANDOMLY buffed thing (which is stupid), it better be at the very least give me a VR Mk XII anything less is unacceptable!
Random buffs is stupid. Anything that gives us random buffs should cost alot less in Dil (which is stupid) than Fleet or Rep weapons where we KNOW WHAT WE ARE BUYING!
The only way random buffs and random quality should be in the crafting system is if ONLY crafting mats are consumed, no Dil!
So running the math in my head:
Mk XII gear with a 33% VR chance means you will have to run it an average of 3 times to get a purple. That means we need an average of 6 VR components (2 per mkXII item) at 20k dilithium each. You will on average crit 1-2 times on the component doff crafting assignment.
We are looking at between 60-80k dilithium (40k if lucky and up to 120k if unlucky) to get a single VR mkXII item on average (at crafting level 20).
Seems way too expensive to me.
Might be different when using Lv20 mkXII shield chances rather than the Aegis shield numbers if you have them to hand.