The number of crafting resources is a little much. I think this all should have been a little more simplistic.
we have something like 4 gases per rarity and there are tons of components. would it have been so hard to limit that down to one gas per rarity, and just come up with some universal sounding name like crafting component or something and limit those to one each? its like seeing an item needs 7 components and trying to remember all the names and which field they are produced in is going to get annoying.
most of the components only offer 1 xp so they did not need to be scattered all over the different fields. they could have been put into one nice and easy field on its own. leave the actual weapons and consoles in the respective field so that its dead obvious what you need.
I dont like the dilithium cost for a random reward. the dilithium should be used as a guarantee to get the item type you want. if you spend none, you get a common, spend the full amount you get a very rare etc.
if you want a random element to be able to sell catalysts in the store then have an extra random bonus unique to crafting to give those weapons an attractive boost on a RNG. that way at worst you get a good item that is highly competitive with everything else, and at best, after you spent some money you get a little extra.
Trait: On activating Beam skill, gain 2% Beam damage for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
Cannons:
Trait: On activating Cannon skill, gain +1 Turn Rate, +1 Inertia for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
Here's a silly question. How can either of these stack three times when the global cooldown is at best 15 seconds? At most they will be able to stack twice and then for only 5 seconds.
Also, would it not be better if they were swapped around? That way the Cannon trait gains 2% damage for 20 sec and the Beam trait gains the +1 Turn Rate and + 1 Inertia. This is based on the line of thought that slow moving Cruisers spamming FAW not gaining more over the top damage, but a slight increase to Turn and Inertia that would allow the Cruiser pilots who like to use torps to be a little more effective in using them.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
If they want to add the randomness in have it be at a significantly reduced cost and your basically gambling with your combine...
Then have a more expensive (Yet hopefully reasonable) Cost to make specific items when you can determine at least some of the factors (Like 3 out of 4?) if not all of them...
what Would Be Nice Is If The Devs Had A Forum Asking The:( Player Base About What They Wanted In The Game And How Things Should Be Improved. Much Like Bioware Did In The Mass Effect Games.
Question (and maybe this has been answered) but what happens to your existing crafting levels? Will anything you did there move over like when Diplomacy was its over Commendiation section?
I posted this elsewhere, but it really needs to be here:
It appears that our dedicated crafters will be reset to zero experience. This means having to make, and destroy many items before we can craft something useful.... again. So great cost and lots of time will be needed to regain what we had achieved earlier.
Crafting will be duty officer driven. Not having the right duty officers will be a serious impediment. This is yet another layer of cost and time over our heads. Then items will cost TONS of dilithium in spite of everything else. The most lame and useless gear has a dilithium cost now. I don't want to spend ANY dilithium to make trash! And lawd knows I will make piles and piles of trash before I can make anything of value.
Since you're making crafting a duty officer mission, that means I might lose everything that's invested into making a piece of high level/ high resource gear... even dilithium! No way!
Honestly, this looks to be an activity where the players lose big, and I am not sure if Cryptic will win either.
I been waiting for this from day one. First I have some very mixed feelings about this new system. Mostly because i spent 3 hours looking for this new system and ive been playing for a long time (almost every day for 2 years). To find out then i had to change over 6000 data thingys one by one didn't impress me either. So after several ours of this. i have some notes.
Good first as its the only one.
Good 1. Type.
Being able now to choice any type not just phaser or disruptors from day one. and i am glad to see Antiprotons there. that would be kick TRIBBLE in lower levels.
Bad. 1. Set up.
When i saw the new interface my heart fell to the floor. Its no only a mess but very hard to find your duty officers or see clearly which duty officer does what. The question i have whats wrong with the old pie chart? And where are all those all headings for type like "Diplomacy" or "Science". Are you trying to kill the game for new players and overwhelm them make them quit or have a heart-attack?
2. Changing items into other things then make the thing you want.... maybe.
This is a mess its not clear and and its better then the old system. I thought the idea was to cut down on so much items?
3. Cost.
The Dil is not worth it. At least with the old system even thought you couldn't choice the effects the item had you at least knew it was a blue or purple item (sometimes green went starting out). But You have WHITE items as a reward for all the time and energy you put in to this system? Why dont you just slap me a few times while your at it!
Dil a side the fact you have no control is just insulting. for some purple beams weapons took me 17 goes and that was just the not cost alot gear (or dil). and mostly white and green gear and took even more to get other console items but i deleted those as i need room.
Too sum up. I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED. The old system may had its floors but it did make you feel that ever step was worth it and you never got junk (and if you did you could give to new players or what ever. But white gear should NEVER be part of a crafting system unless its parts to make the better gear. It also was half of the dil store costs and a simple interface which was easy to understand with less parts then what this new system has. You could make versions of the same gear without using Dil at least till end game items and had no time you had to wait but that of the making the item which was 5 secs.
I have to agree with my predacessor here. I like the concept behind the new crafting system, make component and then build an item. I dont like the chance randomness. and whites as a reward? that is truely insulting. Not to mention the grind of the new system. Im at level 3 beams and nothing new to make unlocks, just same old stuff. Thatsays grind fest, in 7 different areas. Cryptic...How the HELL did you you think This was better?! I'd be fine with crafting whites as long as there are ways to use that white to make it a blue or purple later on. So far as I see Lots of grind vs. TRIBBLE reward.
Also as an insult it is no longer crafting in your hands its using doff's. Some people dont like the doff system but liked to craft, so now their screwed. It was a bad idea to tie these two systems together. Also take the dilithium component away from crafting. Thats what killed it in the first place.
After spending some time on Tribble playing around with the new system my original excitement over a crafting revamp has compltely vanished, to be replaced with massive disappointment because of the following issues:
1. While it is GOOD that we can trade in our old materials for new ones, it is NOT good that we are forced to do it one at a time. It would be nice if there were a "trade all" option added for each type, or at the very least a slider up to 100 like we have for buying commodities.
2. Total randomness for what rarity an item is. This isn't so bad for crafting a bunch of low level gear for alts or friends who are just starting when it's only going to be used for probably a day at most, but when you want to make MK XII stuff for endgame use it is horrible. Especially when dilithium cost is thrown into the mix, and even moreso for weapons when the mods are totally random too. I could see the current dilithium costs MAYBE working out if we were able to choose what mods go onto weapons, but having to pay that much when you'll most likely get something with mods you do not want just makes it not worth it. I would much rather spend time grinding fleet marks and buying some elite fleet gear, and if it stays this way I can say with a fair amount of confidence that the crafting revamp is going to be very ill received.
3. Mat overload. Moreso when you have to use mats to craft other mats, this is fine for veteran crafters who have done this song and dance before in other games but may scare away newer players. But what really bugs me is dilithium cost attached to certain mats. THAT is not cool.
That being said there are some things I do like:
1. Doff based crafting system. Call me crazy but I actually like that it's assignment based and not something you have to stand around a console doing, now we'll be able to do it from anywhere at any time.
2. Bonuses for doffs tied to rarity and not specific stats. This is good because it won't cause hyperinflation of prices for certain doffs which would be virtually required while leaving the rest as mostly worthless.
My suggestions to improve it:
1. Tie rarity into crafting level, don't make it random. The higher your crafting level in a specific area the rarer the stuff you'll be able to make from that specific area.
2. Get rid of dil costs for purple mats and weapons with random rarity/mods. We already have too much to spend dil on as it is.
3. Add in the ability to force rarity, and the ability to force certain mods onto weapons for a dilithium fee. Being able to craft a MK XII ultra rare space weapon with Accx3 and CritX? I'd spend 100k dil for that and I know for sure many other people would too.
Just to reiterate and expand upon what I've previously said, and so many others have also said: The random nature of crafted gear is a major turn-off, maybe moreseo than the high-level dilithium costs.
In crafting, the tradeoff for time and resources spent has traditionally been gear that may or may not be slightly better than dropped gear of the same level and quality, but that always known stats. Crafting is an investment where a player knows that if he takes the time and effort to acquire X items and spends Y time engaged in the crafting process and away from other gameplay, the end result will be Desired Item Z. If I personally had to choose between probably going through the entire crafting process multiple times to get a particular piece of equipment, hoping it drops during gameplay (if it can drop), or just purchasing it outright, I'd likely choose the latter two -- even if the purchasing cost is higher than the stated crafting cost.
Why is this? For starters, it's very likely that needing to re-craft items will drive the overall crafting costs higher than the purchase cost, thereby making outright purchase the more desirable option. Also, because I'd actually be purchasing the item I wanted, and not purchasing a dice roll to potentially get the item I wanted. Now, there's nothing wrong with purchasing dice rolls, IMO. I see nothing wrong with lockboxes, for example. But even in the case of lockboxes, the truly desirable and valuable items are concrete in nature; you know what you're gambling for when you choose to gamble. Under the new crafting system as it currently stands, you're playing Wheel of Fish.
Given that the new crafting system is actually rather quite robust, there are two potential solutions for the issue of gear randomness. The first solution is a simple drop-down menu of gear from which we can choose to craft, similar to the old crafting system, and nearly every other MMO crafting system in existence. Or - and I'm not sure about the feasibility of doing this within the window before 9.5's launch (if at all), but it bears discussion - the addition of (craftable?) modifier traits which can then be added to crafted gear. To make crafted items more desirable, perhaps there could be extra modifier "slots" on crafted gear, or modifier combinations could be allowed that aren't normally allowed on dropped or bought gear -- things like [ACC]x3, for example. Modifier traits could have a built-in chance to not "stick" if artificially lengthening the time and resource sinks is an intentional part of the system design. Heck, even just being able to select modifiers from a menu would go fantastic lengths to add player agency to the process, and would help in justifying crafting costs at higher levels. And both of those would go a long way toward making the new crafting system something in which more players would want to participate.
Playing around with the system a little more, I've noticed progress through the Schools seems to choke, meaning I have to make lots of things I don't need to level the system up, before I can get back to making things I do need.
Not sure if this is by design or not.
For example, Beams. I made all the beams I needed on a low level up to VIs, but this only took me to Beams level 2. I'll have to craft lots of stuff I don't need to get to Beams level 5, before I can make the VIII weapons.
Dunno if it's been answered yet, but are there any crafting material packs for testing available or do I have to copy a toon with a full inventory of stuff?
Either randomized mods or dilithium cost needs to go. I don't think the game can have both.
Maybe you can circumvent it a bit - if you can also disassemble items and get 100 % of the dilithium-costing components back, then maybe you can keep randomization and and dilithium. But only because people would know exactly how much dilithium it will cost them, and that they will eventually get exactly what they wanted.
But I think that would still be a very tedious way to do it, and probably still make the system less than desirable.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Dunno if it's been answered yet, but are there any crafting material packs for testing available or do I have to copy a toon with a full inventory of stuff?
I copied a toon over, there doesn't seem to be anywhere to go and gather mats yet.
The new crafting system seems good to me thus far. There are obviously some bugs to be worked out (like recipes requiring materials that show up as blank or aren't in the game yet). However, there are some things I found that could use some tweaking:
1. Some of the crafting schools require components that are built in another school.
This is counter-intuitive. A school should contain all needed recipes within it. Example: Engineering school consoles and ground armor require a Focusing Lens & Targeting Interface. These are made in several other schools but not in Engineering.
2. Magnesite is used heavily, the other common materials not-so-much.
It looks like all of the common crafting components use Magnesite and Hydrazine Gas. The other two common crafting materials (Trionium Gas and Duranium) are only used in green quality Science school component recipes. I went through Magnesite more quickly than any other mat, but it seems Magnesite is only as common as the other three common materials. I think it would really help to spread out the needed materials a little more. For example, have half of the component recipes in each school require Magnesite/Hydrazine and the other half Trionium/Duranium.
3. The XP curve for crafting seems a little steep to me.
Now, I haven't gotten very far yet. But I have been going through materials fast enough that I can see the potential for a very unbalanced system. With the low rate of XP return so far I can see a glut of low level items flooding peoples' banks and the exchange followed by an extreme shortage of crafting materials. If it costs too much to get the last few levels, people simply won't use the system. They will get arguably superior gear from reputations instead. My suggestion would be to increase XP from the green/blue/purple component recipes and to lower the required amount of materials. Also, right now I see a MkXII warp core rewarding 3000XP. At level 2 you would need to build 4 of them to level. That seems a little too steep to me as well.
4. It would be nice if the most frequently selected recipes were all at the top of the list.
Right now I have to scroll down past two purple/dilithium recipes to get one of the common component recipes under Engineering. While its not a deal breaker it would be nice to save a little bit of scrolling if I will have to do it dozens (or hundreds) of times.
Overall though, I think the new crafting systems seems neat. With some tweaking it should make a nice addition to STO. Also, since a lot of people comment on the dilithium cost, I would like to point out I've only seen it necessary for the highest tiers of the system. Even then its not that bad. 5k for a Mk XI recipe and 20k for Mk XII. I can live with that.
4. It would be nice if the most frequently selected recipes were all at the top of the list.
Right now I have to scroll down past two purple/dilithium recipes to get one of the common component recipes under Engineering. While its not a deal breaker it would be nice to save a little bit of scrolling if I will have to do it dozens (or hundreds) of times.
Some basic sorting would definitely be nifty, though I have to wonder if it's bugging some of us because of the sheer rate that we're doing it. Free Dil for the Finish Now, we're spamming the heck out of things instead of doing it at the normal rate where me may not have noticed the overall amount of scrolling taking place because of things being out of order...
...that said though, heh, yeah - it's definitely leaning toward the tedious end because of the overall size of the UI and depending on which school you're in, there's far more scrolling than other schools.
Please take away the projects that we can not do at lower level in the crafting and only show them as you level up.
There is stuff showing that we cannot do at lower level so why show it, it clutters the screen and is of no use.
Also a little gripe make the position of the job activation and job completion in the same place on the screen
I also noticed there are a lot of common components that most if not all categories use. either break out all the common base components to a new category so we can focus on those first and eliminate most if not all of them under the main categories. another option is to reduce the types and make each specialty have its own components .
combine beams, cannons, and projectiles into one Space Weapons category. as it stands now, these three categories have a lot of duplication making us create the same things in each just to level.
my view of the categories:
common components
all the base common components without dilithium costs.
Space Weapons
tactical consoles, beams, dual beam banks, single cannon, dual cannon, dual heavy cannon, turrets, mines, torpedoes.
Tactical
Ground armor, weapons, personal shields, and tactical kits and modules
Engineering
Engineering consoles, space shields, deflectors, engines, warp cores, engineering kits and modules.
Science
Science consoles, pets, consumables, science kits and modules.
From what I'm reading this sounds more like a random loot generator and less like crafting. What you could do is have an Experiment option, in which the results are random like what you've got, and if you get something you like, make a Create Template option for it that you can reproduce continuously.
First opinion: This is supposed to be an improvement? Really? I thought the old crafting system was pretty pointless to be honest and only bothered with it for kits and to make my number go up, but this...wow, it makes it look great in comparison. A small list of complaints:
The interface is huge. I purposely run STO at a lower resolution because the game runs smoother and I like the UI bigger anyway. The R&D screen now consumes almost all of my screen, not because it's providing that much information, but because the icons are all way bigger than they need to be. Scale them down, please.
There's major information overload. I go in to craft a beam and see all of these new, unfamiliar items I can make. Putting the things I'm really there to make (the gear) at the top, the other stuff needed for those under them would make a lot more sense with my next point.
Let's say I want to craft a beam array: I can only find out what I need to do that after I set up the project. I then have to write these items down, cancel out, and craft them. This is ridiculous. We should be able to click on the icons in the requirements and get a prompt to craft these items. Alternatively, find some way of showing the requirements before we even try to craft gear.
Now there are multiple crafting numbers to advance, our old progress doesn't transfer over, and our rewards are traits to make the (already too easy) game easier?
Now the things I do like about it:
Better separation of the types of gear I can craft is a welcome change.
Likewise, setting up a gear crafting project is great. Outside of the fact that I no longer know the requirements in advance...
Materials getting their own storage space is a major improvement and makes me much more willing to hold onto them.
I'm not completely opposed to the new materials, I'm just not seeing any real benefit right now, maybe because of the clunky UI.
The new Doff UI is TERRIBLE. Whomever did the redesign seems to have forgotten the KISS principle of UI and Game deign (IE Keep It Simple Stupid.)
Issues I have:
- Now you can't simply see the required officer types (Security Officer, Armory Officer, etc.) and have to mouse over large generic icons.
- To Select you need to scroll through your ENITIRE inventory; no more easy filtering with two clicks?
What? Did someone at Cryptic think players were Doffing too fast so they add all these layers of reduced 'at a glance' info and un-needed selection complexity? If this goes live as is, I just won't bother to Doff.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
This new system is broken, simple as that. This isn't crafting, this is roll-two-dice-and-combine-the-results-to-see-the-loot-you-get. Crafting gives you exactly what you ask for. The current system gives you that, for cheaper than the Dil store.
The new system, while it has the right sort of idea, gives you the chance of getting something you might want, but you have no control over exactly what that is. You want a purple Mk XII Photon Torpedo to complement the Gravimetric Torpedo on your Dyson Destroyer? Craft it! You need a dozen Components, that need materials that aren't easy to collect, and some require large amounts of the most valuable in-game currency. You need to put those Components and a DOff into an Item and, if you're maxxed-out, you still only have a less-than-100% chance to get a Mk XII Photon Torpedo with three modifiers. And you have no control over what those modifiers might be - you might get [Dmg]x3, or you might get [CritD] [CritH] [Acc].
In LOTRO, there is a crafting system that uses roughly the same principles - collect resources, use them to make Components, use the Components to make items. The Components that the Items need are all clearly marked on the Item's bar. You are guaranteed a result. If you have a ridiculously high skill level, or a booster material, or pay money to buy a booster material, you stand a chance of getting an improved version of that Item. You don't have to spend real or in-game currency to get a Component, or any quality of Item. And you can see exactly what you are getting ahead of time, both the standard Item and the improved version.
The system currently being tested on Tribble? It's a pile of TRIBBLE. That's why I'm going to get all the crafting I need doing on all my toons done before 9.5 goes live.
I have been wondering since I started playing STO about a year ago what the point of GPL is. In the series, GPL was the most widely used currency. However, in STO, it is pointless.
My suggestion is this:
Why not make it so that the crafting projects require GPL? It would make it so that this currency is no longer worthless, and has some value to it. Also, being able to use it to complete missions early will be awesome.
If not using GPL, then why not make it EC. The value of EC is being reduced to the point where it will now take longer to get it by turning in vendor trash than it did before. However, it doesn't have a limit per day like the Dilithium does.
I know that the developers are working hard and trying to make crafting something useful. However, there are so many thing that would turn players away from this new system. I am not speaking of players that look for instant gratification.
When you have something that has a limit on how much one can get in a day, it has a lot of value to it for those players. If they are asked to give it up for a small chance to get good quality weapons or gear, it might be hard to get them to let it go like that.
The small increase that the weapons get is not worth the cost of Dilithium. I can get weapons that will work just as good from the exchange. That lets me keep my Dilithium, which has a much higher value.
I am also not saying that the new crafting system is bad, or horrible. I just see a lot of tweaking to make it something that other players would like to do, instead of something that is just a Dilithium sink. It DOES have potential, but only if more work is done to it to make it more enjoyable.
Lastly, I never have been too excited about the crafting system before this one. Therefore, I never farmed the crafting materials. Still, I can understand that some players did, and that removing the places they use to farm for them can make it seem more like a grind. I might be mistaken, since I never farmed for them before this. If so, then I apologize for speaking incorrectly.
However, if I am correct, then it can be something else that can turn players away from the new crafting system.
I am not meaning to complain. This is only to offer ideas, or suggestions that might help make the crafting system successful.
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After having messed with it, there is a dire need for queuing production for multiple items and the option to convert entire stacks of commodities at once. Reverse engineering options would also be nice and the ability to add mods onto existing equipment, you know, the sort of thing that happens on Star Trek ALL THE TIME. Not to mention real life. It is actually a descent start perhaps, but it doesn't go far enough.
Yeah, RNG isn't crafting. If you were to ask me what I would put my earned dilithium into out of contributing/buying from my fleet and this, then I'll go for the option that will give me the stated guaranteed item every time. And that's the key word here: GUARANTEED.
I have always been a crafter in every MMO I've ever played. When I played Dark Age of Camelot, I had a character who was a legendary weaponcrafter AND legendary armorsmith. My ex-wife, who was a legendary spellcrafter, could choose what the exact stats were that we wanted on each item and spellcraft them. it wasn't random, the choice was given to us.
From a company that says they specialize in giving their customers choices, I'm completely baffled by this decision Cryptic has made regarding crafting. I have been looking forward to a crafting revamp for years (I've played since Head Start), and when it finally comes, I find myself disappointed by what we're given. I honestly don't see myself using this mechanic very much, and from someone who loves crafting, that says a lot. I ardently oppose the quality of the item being random. In Dark Age, the quality of the item was random, which did determine the amount of stats you could spellcraft on that item. The difference between Dark Age and STO is that in Dark Age, the performance of a 99% quality item would be close to that of a 100% quality item in terms of the amount of stats you could spellcraft into the crafted item (but obviously not the same); the amount rightly diminishes as the quality drops further. Whereas in STO, there's a big difference in performance between uncommon and rare, and rare and very rare (you're missing an entire bonus stat, as opposed to having the same amount of bonus stats albeit with a lower stat performance, such as 20% to crit severity instead of 30%).
Cryptic, we really need the ability to choose what stats we want on any given item. How you achieve this can be done in many ways. For example, the stats we want could determine what materials we use in crafting the item. The base item (let's say, a beam array) could require the same kind of materials and cost the same amount for everyone. But the remaining material costs could vary based upon what stats we want the item to have. The higher quality item you are trying to make, the more mats it will cost because you are trying to add more stats to the base item. Or, you do it modularly. You create the quality base item you want (such as a rare MK whatever) which costs a specific amount of mats, but contains no actual stats. Then, you create the modules which contain the stats you want, and you then slot the modules into the item. The higher quality item, the more module slots the item has. How you achieve this is open to further discussion, but without the ability to choose our stats, crafting will be useless. If crafted stats remain random, I will not use crafting at all and will just buy what I want from my fleet store.
If it were me, I would have the quality of the item be dependent upon how many stats you are trying to put onto the item, not based on a chance. Where random chance should come into play is whether or not you craft the item successfully. For example, the more stats you try to craft into the item, the more difficult it is to achieve a success in crafting that item (depending upon your skill level in that tree). This is somewhat similar to how Dark Age did it in terms of the percent quality of the item, in addition to how you would sometimes fail to make the item if you're crafting something that is around your skill level (or higher) in the tree you are trying to craft from.
Having a dilithium cost in crafting is a bad idea. I used to craft weapons all the time, but once unreplicateable materials were introduced that costed dilithium, I completely stopped crafting. I haven't crafted an item in YEARS, when I used to craft every item for each new ship I got upon ranking up on every character I have.
It's been said before, but we really do need at least a slider for converting our old samples into the new mats. A "Convert All" button would be more prefereable.
I'm just letting you know right now, I will never use a lottery mechanic (catalysts) with crafting. It just won't happen. Having a lottery mechanic for lockbox ships is fine; I just simply choose to not go for lockbox ships. But having lottery in crafting? Nope. Crafting is supposed to unlock special items for people who spend the time and resources into unlocking them. Having any aspect of that tied to a lottery diminishes the entire purpose of having a crafting system (IMO).
Middleman component objects should never be required for creating a base item (like Focusing Lenses or Targeting Interfaces). Those should only use the base mats. The middleman component objects should be used in crafting the +stats you want your item to have.
The component system is well-used in other MMOs, and works well. However, in those other MMOs, you usually get to see which Components you need to craft to produce the final Item. Here, you have to start the project for the Item you want, look at the Component list and write it down, then go back to the project menu and start crafting the Components. That is not convenient, easy, intuitive or sensible!
If we're going to spend Dilithium on anything, we better be guaranteed the result we want.
ALSO THIS ^^
The bottom line here, Cryptic, is that we are CRAFTING. When you bulid a new computer, the specs your computer has aren't random; you CHOOSE the specs you want by choosing the specific parts you build your computer with. As such, you know exactly how your computer will perform, how fast or slow it is, what it's strengths and weaknesses are. I just don't get how a person can build something and NOT KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE. I view this current crafting incarnation as a glorified loot system that requires you to spend resources to see what you get.
We also need a salvage mechanic. Every MMO I've ever played that has crafting had a salvage mechanic. Either drastically increase the EC sell value of crafted items to somewhat offset the mats cost, or let us salvage crafted items for a certain number of the mats back.
As crafting currently stands, I won't be playing it if it hits Holodeck. I will, however, be watching to see if Cryptic takes our feedback to heart and makes appropriate changes. If they do, I can be persuaded to give it another shot.
Comments
we have something like 4 gases per rarity and there are tons of components. would it have been so hard to limit that down to one gas per rarity, and just come up with some universal sounding name like crafting component or something and limit those to one each? its like seeing an item needs 7 components and trying to remember all the names and which field they are produced in is going to get annoying.
most of the components only offer 1 xp so they did not need to be scattered all over the different fields. they could have been put into one nice and easy field on its own. leave the actual weapons and consoles in the respective field so that its dead obvious what you need.
I dont like the dilithium cost for a random reward. the dilithium should be used as a guarantee to get the item type you want. if you spend none, you get a common, spend the full amount you get a very rare etc.
if you want a random element to be able to sell catalysts in the store then have an extra random bonus unique to crafting to give those weapons an attractive boost on a RNG. that way at worst you get a good item that is highly competitive with everything else, and at best, after you spent some money you get a little extra.
Here's a silly question. How can either of these stack three times when the global cooldown is at best 15 seconds? At most they will be able to stack twice and then for only 5 seconds.
Also, would it not be better if they were swapped around? That way the Cannon trait gains 2% damage for 20 sec and the Beam trait gains the +1 Turn Rate and + 1 Inertia. This is based on the line of thought that slow moving Cruisers spamming FAW not gaining more over the top damage, but a slight increase to Turn and Inertia that would allow the Cruiser pilots who like to use torps to be a little more effective in using them.
If they want to add the randomness in have it be at a significantly reduced cost and your basically gambling with your combine...
Then have a more expensive (Yet hopefully reasonable) Cost to make specific items when you can determine at least some of the factors (Like 3 out of 4?) if not all of them...
My new sig till Cryptic fixes it....
This Is That Thread!
It appears that our dedicated crafters will be reset to zero experience. This means having to make, and destroy many items before we can craft something useful.... again. So great cost and lots of time will be needed to regain what we had achieved earlier.
Crafting will be duty officer driven. Not having the right duty officers will be a serious impediment. This is yet another layer of cost and time over our heads. Then items will cost TONS of dilithium in spite of everything else. The most lame and useless gear has a dilithium cost now. I don't want to spend ANY dilithium to make trash! And lawd knows I will make piles and piles of trash before I can make anything of value.
Since you're making crafting a duty officer mission, that means I might lose everything that's invested into making a piece of high level/ high resource gear... even dilithium! No way!
Honestly, this looks to be an activity where the players lose big, and I am not sure if Cryptic will win either.
Member since December 2009
Good first as its the only one.
Good
1. Type.
Being able now to choice any type not just phaser or disruptors from day one. and i am glad to see Antiprotons there. that would be kick TRIBBLE in lower levels.
Bad.
1. Set up.
When i saw the new interface my heart fell to the floor. Its no only a mess but very hard to find your duty officers or see clearly which duty officer does what. The question i have whats wrong with the old pie chart? And where are all those all headings for type like "Diplomacy" or "Science". Are you trying to kill the game for new players and overwhelm them make them quit or have a heart-attack?
2. Changing items into other things then make the thing you want.... maybe.
This is a mess its not clear and and its better then the old system. I thought the idea was to cut down on so much items?
3. Cost.
The Dil is not worth it. At least with the old system even thought you couldn't choice the effects the item had you at least knew it was a blue or purple item (sometimes green went starting out). But You have WHITE items as a reward for all the time and energy you put in to this system? Why dont you just slap me a few times while your at it!
Dil a side the fact you have no control is just insulting. for some purple beams weapons took me 17 goes and that was just the not cost alot gear (or dil). and mostly white and green gear and took even more to get other console items but i deleted those as i need room.
Here is a pic.
http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a632/Sanokskyrat/crafting001_zps85fb2a4f.png
Too sum up. I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED. The old system may had its floors but it did make you feel that ever step was worth it and you never got junk (and if you did you could give to new players or what ever. But white gear should NEVER be part of a crafting system unless its parts to make the better gear. It also was half of the dil store costs and a simple interface which was easy to understand with less parts then what this new system has. You could make versions of the same gear without using Dil at least till end game items and had no time you had to wait but that of the making the item which was 5 secs.
Also as an insult it is no longer crafting in your hands its using doff's. Some people dont like the doff system but liked to craft, so now their screwed. It was a bad idea to tie these two systems together. Also take the dilithium component away from crafting. Thats what killed it in the first place.
1. While it is GOOD that we can trade in our old materials for new ones, it is NOT good that we are forced to do it one at a time. It would be nice if there were a "trade all" option added for each type, or at the very least a slider up to 100 like we have for buying commodities.
2. Total randomness for what rarity an item is. This isn't so bad for crafting a bunch of low level gear for alts or friends who are just starting when it's only going to be used for probably a day at most, but when you want to make MK XII stuff for endgame use it is horrible. Especially when dilithium cost is thrown into the mix, and even moreso for weapons when the mods are totally random too. I could see the current dilithium costs MAYBE working out if we were able to choose what mods go onto weapons, but having to pay that much when you'll most likely get something with mods you do not want just makes it not worth it. I would much rather spend time grinding fleet marks and buying some elite fleet gear, and if it stays this way I can say with a fair amount of confidence that the crafting revamp is going to be very ill received.
3. Mat overload. Moreso when you have to use mats to craft other mats, this is fine for veteran crafters who have done this song and dance before in other games but may scare away newer players. But what really bugs me is dilithium cost attached to certain mats. THAT is not cool.
That being said there are some things I do like:
1. Doff based crafting system. Call me crazy but I actually like that it's assignment based and not something you have to stand around a console doing, now we'll be able to do it from anywhere at any time.
2. Bonuses for doffs tied to rarity and not specific stats. This is good because it won't cause hyperinflation of prices for certain doffs which would be virtually required while leaving the rest as mostly worthless.
My suggestions to improve it:
1. Tie rarity into crafting level, don't make it random. The higher your crafting level in a specific area the rarer the stuff you'll be able to make from that specific area.
2. Get rid of dil costs for purple mats and weapons with random rarity/mods. We already have too much to spend dil on as it is.
3. Add in the ability to force rarity, and the ability to force certain mods onto weapons for a dilithium fee. Being able to craft a MK XII ultra rare space weapon with Accx3 and CritX? I'd spend 100k dil for that and I know for sure many other people would too.
In crafting, the tradeoff for time and resources spent has traditionally been gear that may or may not be slightly better than dropped gear of the same level and quality, but that always known stats. Crafting is an investment where a player knows that if he takes the time and effort to acquire X items and spends Y time engaged in the crafting process and away from other gameplay, the end result will be Desired Item Z. If I personally had to choose between probably going through the entire crafting process multiple times to get a particular piece of equipment, hoping it drops during gameplay (if it can drop), or just purchasing it outright, I'd likely choose the latter two -- even if the purchasing cost is higher than the stated crafting cost.
Why is this? For starters, it's very likely that needing to re-craft items will drive the overall crafting costs higher than the purchase cost, thereby making outright purchase the more desirable option. Also, because I'd actually be purchasing the item I wanted, and not purchasing a dice roll to potentially get the item I wanted. Now, there's nothing wrong with purchasing dice rolls, IMO. I see nothing wrong with lockboxes, for example. But even in the case of lockboxes, the truly desirable and valuable items are concrete in nature; you know what you're gambling for when you choose to gamble. Under the new crafting system as it currently stands, you're playing Wheel of Fish.
Given that the new crafting system is actually rather quite robust, there are two potential solutions for the issue of gear randomness. The first solution is a simple drop-down menu of gear from which we can choose to craft, similar to the old crafting system, and nearly every other MMO crafting system in existence. Or - and I'm not sure about the feasibility of doing this within the window before 9.5's launch (if at all), but it bears discussion - the addition of (craftable?) modifier traits which can then be added to crafted gear. To make crafted items more desirable, perhaps there could be extra modifier "slots" on crafted gear, or modifier combinations could be allowed that aren't normally allowed on dropped or bought gear -- things like [ACC]x3, for example. Modifier traits could have a built-in chance to not "stick" if artificially lengthening the time and resource sinks is an intentional part of the system design. Heck, even just being able to select modifiers from a menu would go fantastic lengths to add player agency to the process, and would help in justifying crafting costs at higher levels. And both of those would go a long way toward making the new crafting system something in which more players would want to participate.
Not sure if this is by design or not.
For example, Beams. I made all the beams I needed on a low level up to VIs, but this only took me to Beams level 2. I'll have to craft lots of stuff I don't need to get to Beams level 5, before I can make the VIII weapons.
Maybe you can circumvent it a bit - if you can also disassemble items and get 100 % of the dilithium-costing components back, then maybe you can keep randomization and and dilithium. But only because people would know exactly how much dilithium it will cost them, and that they will eventually get exactly what they wanted.
But I think that would still be a very tedious way to do it, and probably still make the system less than desirable.
I copied a toon over, there doesn't seem to be anywhere to go and gather mats yet.
1. Some of the crafting schools require components that are built in another school.
This is counter-intuitive. A school should contain all needed recipes within it. Example: Engineering school consoles and ground armor require a Focusing Lens & Targeting Interface. These are made in several other schools but not in Engineering.
2. Magnesite is used heavily, the other common materials not-so-much.
It looks like all of the common crafting components use Magnesite and Hydrazine Gas. The other two common crafting materials (Trionium Gas and Duranium) are only used in green quality Science school component recipes. I went through Magnesite more quickly than any other mat, but it seems Magnesite is only as common as the other three common materials. I think it would really help to spread out the needed materials a little more. For example, have half of the component recipes in each school require Magnesite/Hydrazine and the other half Trionium/Duranium.
3. The XP curve for crafting seems a little steep to me.
Now, I haven't gotten very far yet. But I have been going through materials fast enough that I can see the potential for a very unbalanced system. With the low rate of XP return so far I can see a glut of low level items flooding peoples' banks and the exchange followed by an extreme shortage of crafting materials. If it costs too much to get the last few levels, people simply won't use the system. They will get arguably superior gear from reputations instead. My suggestion would be to increase XP from the green/blue/purple component recipes and to lower the required amount of materials. Also, right now I see a MkXII warp core rewarding 3000XP. At level 2 you would need to build 4 of them to level. That seems a little too steep to me as well.
4. It would be nice if the most frequently selected recipes were all at the top of the list.
Right now I have to scroll down past two purple/dilithium recipes to get one of the common component recipes under Engineering. While its not a deal breaker it would be nice to save a little bit of scrolling if I will have to do it dozens (or hundreds) of times.
Overall though, I think the new crafting systems seems neat. With some tweaking it should make a nice addition to STO. Also, since a lot of people comment on the dilithium cost, I would like to point out I've only seen it necessary for the highest tiers of the system. Even then its not that bad. 5k for a Mk XI recipe and 20k for Mk XII. I can live with that.
Some basic sorting would definitely be nifty, though I have to wonder if it's bugging some of us because of the sheer rate that we're doing it. Free Dil for the Finish Now, we're spamming the heck out of things instead of doing it at the normal rate where me may not have noticed the overall amount of scrolling taking place because of things being out of order...
...that said though, heh, yeah - it's definitely leaning toward the tedious end because of the overall size of the UI and depending on which school you're in, there's far more scrolling than other schools.
There is stuff showing that we cannot do at lower level so why show it, it clutters the screen and is of no use.
Also a little gripe make the position of the job activation and job completion in the same place on the screen
combine beams, cannons, and projectiles into one Space Weapons category. as it stands now, these three categories have a lot of duplication making us create the same things in each just to level.
my view of the categories:
common components
all the base common components without dilithium costs.
Space Weapons
tactical consoles, beams, dual beam banks, single cannon, dual cannon, dual heavy cannon, turrets, mines, torpedoes.
Tactical
Ground armor, weapons, personal shields, and tactical kits and modules
Engineering
Engineering consoles, space shields, deflectors, engines, warp cores, engineering kits and modules.
Science
Science consoles, pets, consumables, science kits and modules.
It was last seen hand in hand with Jem Hadar weapon upgrades... both have not been seen in sometime. They're believed to be lost in space.
Now the things I do like about it:
Issues I have:
- Now you can't simply see the required officer types (Security Officer, Armory Officer, etc.) and have to mouse over large generic icons.
- To Select you need to scroll through your ENITIRE inventory; no more easy filtering with two clicks?
What? Did someone at Cryptic think players were Doffing too fast so they add all these layers of reduced 'at a glance' info and un-needed selection complexity? If this goes live as is, I just won't bother to Doff.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
The new system, while it has the right sort of idea, gives you the chance of getting something you might want, but you have no control over exactly what that is. You want a purple Mk XII Photon Torpedo to complement the Gravimetric Torpedo on your Dyson Destroyer? Craft it! You need a dozen Components, that need materials that aren't easy to collect, and some require large amounts of the most valuable in-game currency. You need to put those Components and a DOff into an Item and, if you're maxxed-out, you still only have a less-than-100% chance to get a Mk XII Photon Torpedo with three modifiers. And you have no control over what those modifiers might be - you might get [Dmg]x3, or you might get [CritD] [CritH] [Acc].
In LOTRO, there is a crafting system that uses roughly the same principles - collect resources, use them to make Components, use the Components to make items. The Components that the Items need are all clearly marked on the Item's bar. You are guaranteed a result. If you have a ridiculously high skill level, or a booster material, or pay money to buy a booster material, you stand a chance of getting an improved version of that Item. You don't have to spend real or in-game currency to get a Component, or any quality of Item. And you can see exactly what you are getting ahead of time, both the standard Item and the improved version.
The system currently being tested on Tribble? It's a pile of TRIBBLE. That's why I'm going to get all the crafting I need doing on all my toons done before 9.5 goes live.
My suggestion is this:
Why not make it so that the crafting projects require GPL? It would make it so that this currency is no longer worthless, and has some value to it. Also, being able to use it to complete missions early will be awesome.
If not using GPL, then why not make it EC. The value of EC is being reduced to the point where it will now take longer to get it by turning in vendor trash than it did before. However, it doesn't have a limit per day like the Dilithium does.
I know that the developers are working hard and trying to make crafting something useful. However, there are so many thing that would turn players away from this new system. I am not speaking of players that look for instant gratification.
When you have something that has a limit on how much one can get in a day, it has a lot of value to it for those players. If they are asked to give it up for a small chance to get good quality weapons or gear, it might be hard to get them to let it go like that.
The small increase that the weapons get is not worth the cost of Dilithium. I can get weapons that will work just as good from the exchange. That lets me keep my Dilithium, which has a much higher value.
I am also not saying that the new crafting system is bad, or horrible. I just see a lot of tweaking to make it something that other players would like to do, instead of something that is just a Dilithium sink. It DOES have potential, but only if more work is done to it to make it more enjoyable.
Lastly, I never have been too excited about the crafting system before this one. Therefore, I never farmed the crafting materials. Still, I can understand that some players did, and that removing the places they use to farm for them can make it seem more like a grind. I might be mistaken, since I never farmed for them before this. If so, then I apologize for speaking incorrectly.
However, if I am correct, then it can be something else that can turn players away from the new crafting system.
I am not meaning to complain. This is only to offer ideas, or suggestions that might help make the crafting system successful.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
From a company that says they specialize in giving their customers choices, I'm completely baffled by this decision Cryptic has made regarding crafting. I have been looking forward to a crafting revamp for years (I've played since Head Start), and when it finally comes, I find myself disappointed by what we're given. I honestly don't see myself using this mechanic very much, and from someone who loves crafting, that says a lot. I ardently oppose the quality of the item being random. In Dark Age, the quality of the item was random, which did determine the amount of stats you could spellcraft on that item. The difference between Dark Age and STO is that in Dark Age, the performance of a 99% quality item would be close to that of a 100% quality item in terms of the amount of stats you could spellcraft into the crafted item (but obviously not the same); the amount rightly diminishes as the quality drops further. Whereas in STO, there's a big difference in performance between uncommon and rare, and rare and very rare (you're missing an entire bonus stat, as opposed to having the same amount of bonus stats albeit with a lower stat performance, such as 20% to crit severity instead of 30%).
Cryptic, we really need the ability to choose what stats we want on any given item. How you achieve this can be done in many ways. For example, the stats we want could determine what materials we use in crafting the item. The base item (let's say, a beam array) could require the same kind of materials and cost the same amount for everyone. But the remaining material costs could vary based upon what stats we want the item to have. The higher quality item you are trying to make, the more mats it will cost because you are trying to add more stats to the base item. Or, you do it modularly. You create the quality base item you want (such as a rare MK whatever) which costs a specific amount of mats, but contains no actual stats. Then, you create the modules which contain the stats you want, and you then slot the modules into the item. The higher quality item, the more module slots the item has. How you achieve this is open to further discussion, but without the ability to choose our stats, crafting will be useless. If crafted stats remain random, I will not use crafting at all and will just buy what I want from my fleet store.
If it were me, I would have the quality of the item be dependent upon how many stats you are trying to put onto the item, not based on a chance. Where random chance should come into play is whether or not you craft the item successfully. For example, the more stats you try to craft into the item, the more difficult it is to achieve a success in crafting that item (depending upon your skill level in that tree). This is somewhat similar to how Dark Age did it in terms of the percent quality of the item, in addition to how you would sometimes fail to make the item if you're crafting something that is around your skill level (or higher) in the tree you are trying to craft from.
Having a dilithium cost in crafting is a bad idea. I used to craft weapons all the time, but once unreplicateable materials were introduced that costed dilithium, I completely stopped crafting. I haven't crafted an item in YEARS, when I used to craft every item for each new ship I got upon ranking up on every character I have.
It's been said before, but we really do need at least a slider for converting our old samples into the new mats. A "Convert All" button would be more prefereable.
I'm just letting you know right now, I will never use a lottery mechanic (catalysts) with crafting. It just won't happen. Having a lottery mechanic for lockbox ships is fine; I just simply choose to not go for lockbox ships. But having lottery in crafting? Nope. Crafting is supposed to unlock special items for people who spend the time and resources into unlocking them. Having any aspect of that tied to a lottery diminishes the entire purpose of having a crafting system (IMO).
Middleman component objects should never be required for creating a base item (like Focusing Lenses or Targeting Interfaces). Those should only use the base mats. The middleman component objects should be used in crafting the +stats you want your item to have.
THIS ^^
ALSO THIS ^^
The bottom line here, Cryptic, is that we are CRAFTING. When you bulid a new computer, the specs your computer has aren't random; you CHOOSE the specs you want by choosing the specific parts you build your computer with. As such, you know exactly how your computer will perform, how fast or slow it is, what it's strengths and weaknesses are. I just don't get how a person can build something and NOT KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE. I view this current crafting incarnation as a glorified loot system that requires you to spend resources to see what you get.
We also need a salvage mechanic. Every MMO I've ever played that has crafting had a salvage mechanic. Either drastically increase the EC sell value of crafted items to somewhat offset the mats cost, or let us salvage crafted items for a certain number of the mats back.
As crafting currently stands, I won't be playing it if it hits Holodeck. I will, however, be watching to see if Cryptic takes our feedback to heart and makes appropriate changes. If they do, I can be persuaded to give it another shot.