Playing around with the system a little more, I've noticed progress through the Schools seems to choke, meaning I have to make lots of things I don't need to level the system up, before I can get back to making things I do need.
Not sure if this is by design or not.
For example, Beams. I made all the beams I needed on a low level up to VIs, but this only took me to Beams level 2. I'll have to craft lots of stuff I don't need to get to Beams level 5, before I can make the VIII weapons.
Dunno if it's been answered yet, but are there any crafting material packs for testing available or do I have to copy a toon with a full inventory of stuff?
Either randomized mods or dilithium cost needs to go. I don't think the game can have both.
Maybe you can circumvent it a bit - if you can also disassemble items and get 100 % of the dilithium-costing components back, then maybe you can keep randomization and and dilithium. But only because people would know exactly how much dilithium it will cost them, and that they will eventually get exactly what they wanted.
But I think that would still be a very tedious way to do it, and probably still make the system less than desirable.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Dunno if it's been answered yet, but are there any crafting material packs for testing available or do I have to copy a toon with a full inventory of stuff?
I copied a toon over, there doesn't seem to be anywhere to go and gather mats yet.
The new crafting system seems good to me thus far. There are obviously some bugs to be worked out (like recipes requiring materials that show up as blank or aren't in the game yet). However, there are some things I found that could use some tweaking:
1. Some of the crafting schools require components that are built in another school.
This is counter-intuitive. A school should contain all needed recipes within it. Example: Engineering school consoles and ground armor require a Focusing Lens & Targeting Interface. These are made in several other schools but not in Engineering.
2. Magnesite is used heavily, the other common materials not-so-much.
It looks like all of the common crafting components use Magnesite and Hydrazine Gas. The other two common crafting materials (Trionium Gas and Duranium) are only used in green quality Science school component recipes. I went through Magnesite more quickly than any other mat, but it seems Magnesite is only as common as the other three common materials. I think it would really help to spread out the needed materials a little more. For example, have half of the component recipes in each school require Magnesite/Hydrazine and the other half Trionium/Duranium.
3. The XP curve for crafting seems a little steep to me.
Now, I haven't gotten very far yet. But I have been going through materials fast enough that I can see the potential for a very unbalanced system. With the low rate of XP return so far I can see a glut of low level items flooding peoples' banks and the exchange followed by an extreme shortage of crafting materials. If it costs too much to get the last few levels, people simply won't use the system. They will get arguably superior gear from reputations instead. My suggestion would be to increase XP from the green/blue/purple component recipes and to lower the required amount of materials. Also, right now I see a MkXII warp core rewarding 3000XP. At level 2 you would need to build 4 of them to level. That seems a little too steep to me as well.
4. It would be nice if the most frequently selected recipes were all at the top of the list.
Right now I have to scroll down past two purple/dilithium recipes to get one of the common component recipes under Engineering. While its not a deal breaker it would be nice to save a little bit of scrolling if I will have to do it dozens (or hundreds) of times.
Overall though, I think the new crafting systems seems neat. With some tweaking it should make a nice addition to STO. Also, since a lot of people comment on the dilithium cost, I would like to point out I've only seen it necessary for the highest tiers of the system. Even then its not that bad. 5k for a Mk XI recipe and 20k for Mk XII. I can live with that.
4. It would be nice if the most frequently selected recipes were all at the top of the list.
Right now I have to scroll down past two purple/dilithium recipes to get one of the common component recipes under Engineering. While its not a deal breaker it would be nice to save a little bit of scrolling if I will have to do it dozens (or hundreds) of times.
Some basic sorting would definitely be nifty, though I have to wonder if it's bugging some of us because of the sheer rate that we're doing it. Free Dil for the Finish Now, we're spamming the heck out of things instead of doing it at the normal rate where me may not have noticed the overall amount of scrolling taking place because of things being out of order...
...that said though, heh, yeah - it's definitely leaning toward the tedious end because of the overall size of the UI and depending on which school you're in, there's far more scrolling than other schools.
Please take away the projects that we can not do at lower level in the crafting and only show them as you level up.
There is stuff showing that we cannot do at lower level so why show it, it clutters the screen and is of no use.
Also a little gripe make the position of the job activation and job completion in the same place on the screen
I also noticed there are a lot of common components that most if not all categories use. either break out all the common base components to a new category so we can focus on those first and eliminate most if not all of them under the main categories. another option is to reduce the types and make each specialty have its own components .
combine beams, cannons, and projectiles into one Space Weapons category. as it stands now, these three categories have a lot of duplication making us create the same things in each just to level.
my view of the categories:
common components
all the base common components without dilithium costs.
Space Weapons
tactical consoles, beams, dual beam banks, single cannon, dual cannon, dual heavy cannon, turrets, mines, torpedoes.
Tactical
Ground armor, weapons, personal shields, and tactical kits and modules
Engineering
Engineering consoles, space shields, deflectors, engines, warp cores, engineering kits and modules.
Science
Science consoles, pets, consumables, science kits and modules.
From what I'm reading this sounds more like a random loot generator and less like crafting. What you could do is have an Experiment option, in which the results are random like what you've got, and if you get something you like, make a Create Template option for it that you can reproduce continuously.
First opinion: This is supposed to be an improvement? Really? I thought the old crafting system was pretty pointless to be honest and only bothered with it for kits and to make my number go up, but this...wow, it makes it look great in comparison. A small list of complaints:
The interface is huge. I purposely run STO at a lower resolution because the game runs smoother and I like the UI bigger anyway. The R&D screen now consumes almost all of my screen, not because it's providing that much information, but because the icons are all way bigger than they need to be. Scale them down, please.
There's major information overload. I go in to craft a beam and see all of these new, unfamiliar items I can make. Putting the things I'm really there to make (the gear) at the top, the other stuff needed for those under them would make a lot more sense with my next point.
Let's say I want to craft a beam array: I can only find out what I need to do that after I set up the project. I then have to write these items down, cancel out, and craft them. This is ridiculous. We should be able to click on the icons in the requirements and get a prompt to craft these items. Alternatively, find some way of showing the requirements before we even try to craft gear.
Now there are multiple crafting numbers to advance, our old progress doesn't transfer over, and our rewards are traits to make the (already too easy) game easier?
Now the things I do like about it:
Better separation of the types of gear I can craft is a welcome change.
Likewise, setting up a gear crafting project is great. Outside of the fact that I no longer know the requirements in advance...
Materials getting their own storage space is a major improvement and makes me much more willing to hold onto them.
I'm not completely opposed to the new materials, I'm just not seeing any real benefit right now, maybe because of the clunky UI.
The new Doff UI is TERRIBLE. Whomever did the redesign seems to have forgotten the KISS principle of UI and Game deign (IE Keep It Simple Stupid.)
Issues I have:
- Now you can't simply see the required officer types (Security Officer, Armory Officer, etc.) and have to mouse over large generic icons.
- To Select you need to scroll through your ENITIRE inventory; no more easy filtering with two clicks?
What? Did someone at Cryptic think players were Doffing too fast so they add all these layers of reduced 'at a glance' info and un-needed selection complexity? If this goes live as is, I just won't bother to Doff.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
This new system is broken, simple as that. This isn't crafting, this is roll-two-dice-and-combine-the-results-to-see-the-loot-you-get. Crafting gives you exactly what you ask for. The current system gives you that, for cheaper than the Dil store.
The new system, while it has the right sort of idea, gives you the chance of getting something you might want, but you have no control over exactly what that is. You want a purple Mk XII Photon Torpedo to complement the Gravimetric Torpedo on your Dyson Destroyer? Craft it! You need a dozen Components, that need materials that aren't easy to collect, and some require large amounts of the most valuable in-game currency. You need to put those Components and a DOff into an Item and, if you're maxxed-out, you still only have a less-than-100% chance to get a Mk XII Photon Torpedo with three modifiers. And you have no control over what those modifiers might be - you might get [Dmg]x3, or you might get [CritD] [CritH] [Acc].
In LOTRO, there is a crafting system that uses roughly the same principles - collect resources, use them to make Components, use the Components to make items. The Components that the Items need are all clearly marked on the Item's bar. You are guaranteed a result. If you have a ridiculously high skill level, or a booster material, or pay money to buy a booster material, you stand a chance of getting an improved version of that Item. You don't have to spend real or in-game currency to get a Component, or any quality of Item. And you can see exactly what you are getting ahead of time, both the standard Item and the improved version.
The system currently being tested on Tribble? It's a pile of TRIBBLE. That's why I'm going to get all the crafting I need doing on all my toons done before 9.5 goes live.
I have been wondering since I started playing STO about a year ago what the point of GPL is. In the series, GPL was the most widely used currency. However, in STO, it is pointless.
My suggestion is this:
Why not make it so that the crafting projects require GPL? It would make it so that this currency is no longer worthless, and has some value to it. Also, being able to use it to complete missions early will be awesome.
If not using GPL, then why not make it EC. The value of EC is being reduced to the point where it will now take longer to get it by turning in vendor trash than it did before. However, it doesn't have a limit per day like the Dilithium does.
I know that the developers are working hard and trying to make crafting something useful. However, there are so many thing that would turn players away from this new system. I am not speaking of players that look for instant gratification.
When you have something that has a limit on how much one can get in a day, it has a lot of value to it for those players. If they are asked to give it up for a small chance to get good quality weapons or gear, it might be hard to get them to let it go like that.
The small increase that the weapons get is not worth the cost of Dilithium. I can get weapons that will work just as good from the exchange. That lets me keep my Dilithium, which has a much higher value.
I am also not saying that the new crafting system is bad, or horrible. I just see a lot of tweaking to make it something that other players would like to do, instead of something that is just a Dilithium sink. It DOES have potential, but only if more work is done to it to make it more enjoyable.
Lastly, I never have been too excited about the crafting system before this one. Therefore, I never farmed the crafting materials. Still, I can understand that some players did, and that removing the places they use to farm for them can make it seem more like a grind. I might be mistaken, since I never farmed for them before this. If so, then I apologize for speaking incorrectly.
However, if I am correct, then it can be something else that can turn players away from the new crafting system.
I am not meaning to complain. This is only to offer ideas, or suggestions that might help make the crafting system successful.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
After having messed with it, there is a dire need for queuing production for multiple items and the option to convert entire stacks of commodities at once. Reverse engineering options would also be nice and the ability to add mods onto existing equipment, you know, the sort of thing that happens on Star Trek ALL THE TIME. Not to mention real life. It is actually a descent start perhaps, but it doesn't go far enough.
Yeah, RNG isn't crafting. If you were to ask me what I would put my earned dilithium into out of contributing/buying from my fleet and this, then I'll go for the option that will give me the stated guaranteed item every time. And that's the key word here: GUARANTEED.
I have always been a crafter in every MMO I've ever played. When I played Dark Age of Camelot, I had a character who was a legendary weaponcrafter AND legendary armorsmith. My ex-wife, who was a legendary spellcrafter, could choose what the exact stats were that we wanted on each item and spellcraft them. it wasn't random, the choice was given to us.
From a company that says they specialize in giving their customers choices, I'm completely baffled by this decision Cryptic has made regarding crafting. I have been looking forward to a crafting revamp for years (I've played since Head Start), and when it finally comes, I find myself disappointed by what we're given. I honestly don't see myself using this mechanic very much, and from someone who loves crafting, that says a lot. I ardently oppose the quality of the item being random. In Dark Age, the quality of the item was random, which did determine the amount of stats you could spellcraft on that item. The difference between Dark Age and STO is that in Dark Age, the performance of a 99% quality item would be close to that of a 100% quality item in terms of the amount of stats you could spellcraft into the crafted item (but obviously not the same); the amount rightly diminishes as the quality drops further. Whereas in STO, there's a big difference in performance between uncommon and rare, and rare and very rare (you're missing an entire bonus stat, as opposed to having the same amount of bonus stats albeit with a lower stat performance, such as 20% to crit severity instead of 30%).
Cryptic, we really need the ability to choose what stats we want on any given item. How you achieve this can be done in many ways. For example, the stats we want could determine what materials we use in crafting the item. The base item (let's say, a beam array) could require the same kind of materials and cost the same amount for everyone. But the remaining material costs could vary based upon what stats we want the item to have. The higher quality item you are trying to make, the more mats it will cost because you are trying to add more stats to the base item. Or, you do it modularly. You create the quality base item you want (such as a rare MK whatever) which costs a specific amount of mats, but contains no actual stats. Then, you create the modules which contain the stats you want, and you then slot the modules into the item. The higher quality item, the more module slots the item has. How you achieve this is open to further discussion, but without the ability to choose our stats, crafting will be useless. If crafted stats remain random, I will not use crafting at all and will just buy what I want from my fleet store.
If it were me, I would have the quality of the item be dependent upon how many stats you are trying to put onto the item, not based on a chance. Where random chance should come into play is whether or not you craft the item successfully. For example, the more stats you try to craft into the item, the more difficult it is to achieve a success in crafting that item (depending upon your skill level in that tree). This is somewhat similar to how Dark Age did it in terms of the percent quality of the item, in addition to how you would sometimes fail to make the item if you're crafting something that is around your skill level (or higher) in the tree you are trying to craft from.
Having a dilithium cost in crafting is a bad idea. I used to craft weapons all the time, but once unreplicateable materials were introduced that costed dilithium, I completely stopped crafting. I haven't crafted an item in YEARS, when I used to craft every item for each new ship I got upon ranking up on every character I have.
It's been said before, but we really do need at least a slider for converting our old samples into the new mats. A "Convert All" button would be more prefereable.
I'm just letting you know right now, I will never use a lottery mechanic (catalysts) with crafting. It just won't happen. Having a lottery mechanic for lockbox ships is fine; I just simply choose to not go for lockbox ships. But having lottery in crafting? Nope. Crafting is supposed to unlock special items for people who spend the time and resources into unlocking them. Having any aspect of that tied to a lottery diminishes the entire purpose of having a crafting system (IMO).
Middleman component objects should never be required for creating a base item (like Focusing Lenses or Targeting Interfaces). Those should only use the base mats. The middleman component objects should be used in crafting the +stats you want your item to have.
The component system is well-used in other MMOs, and works well. However, in those other MMOs, you usually get to see which Components you need to craft to produce the final Item. Here, you have to start the project for the Item you want, look at the Component list and write it down, then go back to the project menu and start crafting the Components. That is not convenient, easy, intuitive or sensible!
If we're going to spend Dilithium on anything, we better be guaranteed the result we want.
ALSO THIS ^^
The bottom line here, Cryptic, is that we are CRAFTING. When you bulid a new computer, the specs your computer has aren't random; you CHOOSE the specs you want by choosing the specific parts you build your computer with. As such, you know exactly how your computer will perform, how fast or slow it is, what it's strengths and weaknesses are. I just don't get how a person can build something and NOT KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE. I view this current crafting incarnation as a glorified loot system that requires you to spend resources to see what you get.
We also need a salvage mechanic. Every MMO I've ever played that has crafting had a salvage mechanic. Either drastically increase the EC sell value of crafted items to somewhat offset the mats cost, or let us salvage crafted items for a certain number of the mats back.
As crafting currently stands, I won't be playing it if it hits Holodeck. I will, however, be watching to see if Cryptic takes our feedback to heart and makes appropriate changes. If they do, I can be persuaded to give it another shot.
I think these proposed changes need to be either scrapped or go back to the drawing board. Here's my feedback from testing so far:
1. Trade in materials 1 at a time - I assume that this was a bug or an oversight that will just get fixed.
2. Doff system integration - Please no. The doff system is the doff system and the crafting system should be unrelated. At the very least make doffs have no bearing on the outcome.
3. Too many steps - take a bunch of stuff and turn it in to other things to use to make an final item. This is not an improvement on the current system, over-complicates things, and will put people off using the system.
4. Random quality and modifiers - If you thought lock boxes were unpopular, this will be worse. This takes the reason for crafting and throws it out the window.
5. Costs - Combined with the randomness, you might as well get rid of crafting all together, because I predict very limited usage of the crafting system as is stands.
5. Leveling system - I think it takes too long to progress to a stage where you would be able to craft level appropriate items. Having maxed crafting skills on one of my current toons, the thought of grinding through the process all over again from scratch is something I probably wont do.
Suggestion:
Get rid of the intermediary stage for a common rarity version of the item you are trying to craft. Have additional options to apply a certain modifier of choice up to a max of 3 modifiers with a dil cost for each modifier.
e.g.
Stage 1: Turn materials into a common phaser beam array Mk XII. Material cost increases with the mark of the weapon, but no dil cost.
Stage 2: Add an Acc modifier to the weapon at the cost of say 5k dil, resulting in an uncommon phaser beam array Mk XII [Acc].
Stage 3: Add an additional Acc modifier to the weapon at the cost of 5k dil, resulting in an rare phaser beam array Mk XII [Acc]x2.
Stage 4: Add a CritD modifier to the weapon at the cost of 5k dil, finally resulting in a Very Rare Phaser Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2 [CritD].
This way crafters get exactly what they want in a clear easy to understand way, but at the cost of dilithium. The ability to craft higher marks of gear can be tied to character level so the majority of toons that are currently level 50 will get some immediate benefit from using a new system.
There are other "business" things that can be implemented like crafting the 3rd modifier binds the gear to account and new special crafting project drops from lock boxes (or some new very rare doff missions) that allow the crafting of unique consoles that currently come with c-store ships (because pvp has become out of hand with some of these consoles, and thing are only going downhill). At the end of the day, a decent and fair crafting system will get people investing dilithium in crafting and turning c-store points into dilithium.
TLDR: I will prefer the current system unless some serious changes are made (which is why this is on Tribble in the first place). I then made a suggestion for a rework that in my opinion is better for everyone.
I like this suggestion. Maybe add option to add 4th modifier when fully maxed out research level.
Well, I guess this would make them better than fleet weapons. Better in the sense that you can control the mods more. Maybe have increasing scale for each additional mod. 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k dilithium
Get rid of the intermediary stage for a common rarity version of the item you are trying to craft. Have additional options to apply a certain modifier of choice up to a max of 3 modifiers with a dil cost for each modifier.
This would be an acceptable use of dilithium for crafted items. Lower quality items have a lower dilithium cost, and the higher quality items will have a cost more in line with fleet items. Plus, we get to choose our modifiers.
Crafted items still need something to make them stand apart from other items, including fleet, in game. Not necessarily better, just different .
As you know, Season 9 extended the ship/console logic to kits and their modules. Now that a revamp of the crafting system is in the offing I (and others) have asked 'why not apply that to weapons and their mods as well?'. It seems a logical progression, true, but let's have a look at what this might mean in terms of crafting.
the Mk. and rarity of the weapon would still be affected by your crafting skill.
weapon mods (i.e. [Acc], [CrtH], etc.) would become craftable components, with rarity affecting their effectiveness in the same way it does for kit module.
the number of mod slots available on a weapon is determined by its rarity (uncommon = 1; rare = 2, etc.).
mods may be freely swapped among weapons while out of combat, with each weapon type having its own pool of mods... in other words, you can't rip the [Dmg] from a torpedo launcher in your inventory and stick it onto your rifle!
some mod recipes would be rewarded by progression within a rep (case in point, one would get [Sonic] and [Refract] from Nukara; [Borg] from Omega).
Legacy weapons in players' inventories, or posted to the Exchange, at the time of the changeover would continue to exist, of course; reputation and fleet stores remain viable alternatives for people willing to ante up the dil and/or marks for an item with a particular desired mod combination. Exotic base weapon types (i.e. nanite-infused disruptor; destabilizing tetryon; bio-molecular phaser) could even be added to the recipe pool as well.
Having tried the new system out I agree with what other people have commented on about customising items.
As you rank-up towards the higher tiers, you should be able to customise the items you craft more and more.
Examples:
Adding a second effect to a console. I.e so if you have a ship that has phaser weapons and photon projectiles you could craft a console to increase damage on these 2 types.
More varied selection of items? How about crafting unique consumables like an item that would improve performance on your ship in a certain way for a limited duration, like batteries but more varied. Perhaps an upgrade to exotic damage or a certain power?
Basically my point is that since now there are so many ways you can customise your ship builds and characters etc. the crafting system is a perfect way to cater to that variety. It's not about being able to craft the most powerful items in game, more about customisation!
It's called "research" and development, but wheres the research????
Having played Skyrim again recently, an interesting thing about crafting potions is that you could mix and match ingredients with unkown outcomes and thus learn new recipies as you progressed, this method would work well and make crafting infinitely more interesting I think!
When you do research/experiments you learn from failing!
As you know, Season 9 extended the ship/console logic to kits and their modules. Now that a revamp of the crafting system is in the offing I (and others) have asked 'why not apply that to weapons and their mods as well?'. It seems a logical progression, true, but let's have a look at what this might mean in terms of crafting..l.
Agreed.
I would even be satisfied if Suffix "modules" were installed during an assembly stage, at the end (and thus fused to the item), allowing customization of the product without later fiddling by the owner. (meaning, create a purple quality Disruptor DHC Assembly with 3 slots, then start an Assembly project, where 3 modules were installed to create a final result)
Regardless - allow customized creation, and have that customization use objects even novice crafters can generate (or allow refinement of novice created items to higher tiers) in order to ensure all tiers of crafting have purpose.
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
Ok, here goes.I hope someone really reads all these posts.Maybe by some miracle they hear this good feedback
1. All component should be in one menu so we don't need to jump all over to get what we need.
2. Allow to choose how many components and how many of what ever item person is trying to create.
3 Random quality of final item must be removed.Nobody will create these items for anything other than "xp".If i'm aiming for green,blue or purple item then it should create that item.
4. It takes far too long to create final item like Quantum Torpedo MK6, 1 hour per item.Should be more like 1 minute.
5. Using dilithium for anything in crafting is not a good idea. I just go over to fleet store and buy directly whatever weapons or items i need.In other words bypassing this crafting system.
6. Item requirement levels: 0, 5 or 10. Wow.I don't even know what to say. Change it to 0,1,2 and 3...? or 0, 2, 4, 6... ? Anything else than 5, 10, 15, 20.... see the idea?
Yet still work in progress...well i say that this system has a long way to go before it's good enough.Will 1 month be enough time to get it there? I'd like to hope so. At it's current state: it's worse than what we have now.
Aside from the new procs which would only require a single weapon not even a set, what do the rewards from this new system offer to make it desireable compared to reputation and fleet gear?
Customizable mods? Nope.
Specific Energy Type? Beats some rep items but not fleet.
Lower Cost? You can gamble for weapons at the cost of 15 marks or get a 100% guaranteed quality out of fleet.
Honestly what is even the point of all this aside from creating a grind? Would it not have the same exact end result just to create a single doff mission for each end piece item similar to the console crafting doff mission?
The more I look at it, the more I think on it, it simply screams of another half assed game system tossed in without the necessary polish or quality to make it shine that creates another item to add into lockboxes/crafting boxes.
A quality R&D system would involve an actual research component that would allow the player to expand their options discovering a variety of potential items to craft and mods or customization tweaks and options to apply to them. An actual development component that would allow the player to piece together the various options into the exact result they desired. If you want to toss in a bit of random it could be a random time period to craft, it could consume a random amount of components, it could have a failure to create chance, it could have random quality of the selected mods being applied.
This? This is just an alternative method of getting a loot box drop from a slightly narrow loot pool.
Comments
Not sure if this is by design or not.
For example, Beams. I made all the beams I needed on a low level up to VIs, but this only took me to Beams level 2. I'll have to craft lots of stuff I don't need to get to Beams level 5, before I can make the VIII weapons.
Maybe you can circumvent it a bit - if you can also disassemble items and get 100 % of the dilithium-costing components back, then maybe you can keep randomization and and dilithium. But only because people would know exactly how much dilithium it will cost them, and that they will eventually get exactly what they wanted.
But I think that would still be a very tedious way to do it, and probably still make the system less than desirable.
I copied a toon over, there doesn't seem to be anywhere to go and gather mats yet.
1. Some of the crafting schools require components that are built in another school.
This is counter-intuitive. A school should contain all needed recipes within it. Example: Engineering school consoles and ground armor require a Focusing Lens & Targeting Interface. These are made in several other schools but not in Engineering.
2. Magnesite is used heavily, the other common materials not-so-much.
It looks like all of the common crafting components use Magnesite and Hydrazine Gas. The other two common crafting materials (Trionium Gas and Duranium) are only used in green quality Science school component recipes. I went through Magnesite more quickly than any other mat, but it seems Magnesite is only as common as the other three common materials. I think it would really help to spread out the needed materials a little more. For example, have half of the component recipes in each school require Magnesite/Hydrazine and the other half Trionium/Duranium.
3. The XP curve for crafting seems a little steep to me.
Now, I haven't gotten very far yet. But I have been going through materials fast enough that I can see the potential for a very unbalanced system. With the low rate of XP return so far I can see a glut of low level items flooding peoples' banks and the exchange followed by an extreme shortage of crafting materials. If it costs too much to get the last few levels, people simply won't use the system. They will get arguably superior gear from reputations instead. My suggestion would be to increase XP from the green/blue/purple component recipes and to lower the required amount of materials. Also, right now I see a MkXII warp core rewarding 3000XP. At level 2 you would need to build 4 of them to level. That seems a little too steep to me as well.
4. It would be nice if the most frequently selected recipes were all at the top of the list.
Right now I have to scroll down past two purple/dilithium recipes to get one of the common component recipes under Engineering. While its not a deal breaker it would be nice to save a little bit of scrolling if I will have to do it dozens (or hundreds) of times.
Overall though, I think the new crafting systems seems neat. With some tweaking it should make a nice addition to STO. Also, since a lot of people comment on the dilithium cost, I would like to point out I've only seen it necessary for the highest tiers of the system. Even then its not that bad. 5k for a Mk XI recipe and 20k for Mk XII. I can live with that.
Some basic sorting would definitely be nifty, though I have to wonder if it's bugging some of us because of the sheer rate that we're doing it. Free Dil for the Finish Now, we're spamming the heck out of things instead of doing it at the normal rate where me may not have noticed the overall amount of scrolling taking place because of things being out of order...
...that said though, heh, yeah - it's definitely leaning toward the tedious end because of the overall size of the UI and depending on which school you're in, there's far more scrolling than other schools.
There is stuff showing that we cannot do at lower level so why show it, it clutters the screen and is of no use.
Also a little gripe make the position of the job activation and job completion in the same place on the screen
combine beams, cannons, and projectiles into one Space Weapons category. as it stands now, these three categories have a lot of duplication making us create the same things in each just to level.
my view of the categories:
common components
all the base common components without dilithium costs.
Space Weapons
tactical consoles, beams, dual beam banks, single cannon, dual cannon, dual heavy cannon, turrets, mines, torpedoes.
Tactical
Ground armor, weapons, personal shields, and tactical kits and modules
Engineering
Engineering consoles, space shields, deflectors, engines, warp cores, engineering kits and modules.
Science
Science consoles, pets, consumables, science kits and modules.
It was last seen hand in hand with Jem Hadar weapon upgrades... both have not been seen in sometime. They're believed to be lost in space.
Now the things I do like about it:
Issues I have:
- Now you can't simply see the required officer types (Security Officer, Armory Officer, etc.) and have to mouse over large generic icons.
- To Select you need to scroll through your ENITIRE inventory; no more easy filtering with two clicks?
What? Did someone at Cryptic think players were Doffing too fast so they add all these layers of reduced 'at a glance' info and un-needed selection complexity? If this goes live as is, I just won't bother to Doff.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
The new system, while it has the right sort of idea, gives you the chance of getting something you might want, but you have no control over exactly what that is. You want a purple Mk XII Photon Torpedo to complement the Gravimetric Torpedo on your Dyson Destroyer? Craft it! You need a dozen Components, that need materials that aren't easy to collect, and some require large amounts of the most valuable in-game currency. You need to put those Components and a DOff into an Item and, if you're maxxed-out, you still only have a less-than-100% chance to get a Mk XII Photon Torpedo with three modifiers. And you have no control over what those modifiers might be - you might get [Dmg]x3, or you might get [CritD] [CritH] [Acc].
In LOTRO, there is a crafting system that uses roughly the same principles - collect resources, use them to make Components, use the Components to make items. The Components that the Items need are all clearly marked on the Item's bar. You are guaranteed a result. If you have a ridiculously high skill level, or a booster material, or pay money to buy a booster material, you stand a chance of getting an improved version of that Item. You don't have to spend real or in-game currency to get a Component, or any quality of Item. And you can see exactly what you are getting ahead of time, both the standard Item and the improved version.
The system currently being tested on Tribble? It's a pile of TRIBBLE. That's why I'm going to get all the crafting I need doing on all my toons done before 9.5 goes live.
My suggestion is this:
Why not make it so that the crafting projects require GPL? It would make it so that this currency is no longer worthless, and has some value to it. Also, being able to use it to complete missions early will be awesome.
If not using GPL, then why not make it EC. The value of EC is being reduced to the point where it will now take longer to get it by turning in vendor trash than it did before. However, it doesn't have a limit per day like the Dilithium does.
I know that the developers are working hard and trying to make crafting something useful. However, there are so many thing that would turn players away from this new system. I am not speaking of players that look for instant gratification.
When you have something that has a limit on how much one can get in a day, it has a lot of value to it for those players. If they are asked to give it up for a small chance to get good quality weapons or gear, it might be hard to get them to let it go like that.
The small increase that the weapons get is not worth the cost of Dilithium. I can get weapons that will work just as good from the exchange. That lets me keep my Dilithium, which has a much higher value.
I am also not saying that the new crafting system is bad, or horrible. I just see a lot of tweaking to make it something that other players would like to do, instead of something that is just a Dilithium sink. It DOES have potential, but only if more work is done to it to make it more enjoyable.
Lastly, I never have been too excited about the crafting system before this one. Therefore, I never farmed the crafting materials. Still, I can understand that some players did, and that removing the places they use to farm for them can make it seem more like a grind. I might be mistaken, since I never farmed for them before this. If so, then I apologize for speaking incorrectly.
However, if I am correct, then it can be something else that can turn players away from the new crafting system.
I am not meaning to complain. This is only to offer ideas, or suggestions that might help make the crafting system successful.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
From a company that says they specialize in giving their customers choices, I'm completely baffled by this decision Cryptic has made regarding crafting. I have been looking forward to a crafting revamp for years (I've played since Head Start), and when it finally comes, I find myself disappointed by what we're given. I honestly don't see myself using this mechanic very much, and from someone who loves crafting, that says a lot. I ardently oppose the quality of the item being random. In Dark Age, the quality of the item was random, which did determine the amount of stats you could spellcraft on that item. The difference between Dark Age and STO is that in Dark Age, the performance of a 99% quality item would be close to that of a 100% quality item in terms of the amount of stats you could spellcraft into the crafted item (but obviously not the same); the amount rightly diminishes as the quality drops further. Whereas in STO, there's a big difference in performance between uncommon and rare, and rare and very rare (you're missing an entire bonus stat, as opposed to having the same amount of bonus stats albeit with a lower stat performance, such as 20% to crit severity instead of 30%).
Cryptic, we really need the ability to choose what stats we want on any given item. How you achieve this can be done in many ways. For example, the stats we want could determine what materials we use in crafting the item. The base item (let's say, a beam array) could require the same kind of materials and cost the same amount for everyone. But the remaining material costs could vary based upon what stats we want the item to have. The higher quality item you are trying to make, the more mats it will cost because you are trying to add more stats to the base item. Or, you do it modularly. You create the quality base item you want (such as a rare MK whatever) which costs a specific amount of mats, but contains no actual stats. Then, you create the modules which contain the stats you want, and you then slot the modules into the item. The higher quality item, the more module slots the item has. How you achieve this is open to further discussion, but without the ability to choose our stats, crafting will be useless. If crafted stats remain random, I will not use crafting at all and will just buy what I want from my fleet store.
If it were me, I would have the quality of the item be dependent upon how many stats you are trying to put onto the item, not based on a chance. Where random chance should come into play is whether or not you craft the item successfully. For example, the more stats you try to craft into the item, the more difficult it is to achieve a success in crafting that item (depending upon your skill level in that tree). This is somewhat similar to how Dark Age did it in terms of the percent quality of the item, in addition to how you would sometimes fail to make the item if you're crafting something that is around your skill level (or higher) in the tree you are trying to craft from.
Having a dilithium cost in crafting is a bad idea. I used to craft weapons all the time, but once unreplicateable materials were introduced that costed dilithium, I completely stopped crafting. I haven't crafted an item in YEARS, when I used to craft every item for each new ship I got upon ranking up on every character I have.
It's been said before, but we really do need at least a slider for converting our old samples into the new mats. A "Convert All" button would be more prefereable.
I'm just letting you know right now, I will never use a lottery mechanic (catalysts) with crafting. It just won't happen. Having a lottery mechanic for lockbox ships is fine; I just simply choose to not go for lockbox ships. But having lottery in crafting? Nope. Crafting is supposed to unlock special items for people who spend the time and resources into unlocking them. Having any aspect of that tied to a lottery diminishes the entire purpose of having a crafting system (IMO).
Middleman component objects should never be required for creating a base item (like Focusing Lenses or Targeting Interfaces). Those should only use the base mats. The middleman component objects should be used in crafting the +stats you want your item to have.
THIS ^^
ALSO THIS ^^
The bottom line here, Cryptic, is that we are CRAFTING. When you bulid a new computer, the specs your computer has aren't random; you CHOOSE the specs you want by choosing the specific parts you build your computer with. As such, you know exactly how your computer will perform, how fast or slow it is, what it's strengths and weaknesses are. I just don't get how a person can build something and NOT KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE. I view this current crafting incarnation as a glorified loot system that requires you to spend resources to see what you get.
We also need a salvage mechanic. Every MMO I've ever played that has crafting had a salvage mechanic. Either drastically increase the EC sell value of crafted items to somewhat offset the mats cost, or let us salvage crafted items for a certain number of the mats back.
As crafting currently stands, I won't be playing it if it hits Holodeck. I will, however, be watching to see if Cryptic takes our feedback to heart and makes appropriate changes. If they do, I can be persuaded to give it another shot.
1. Trade in materials 1 at a time - I assume that this was a bug or an oversight that will just get fixed.
2. Doff system integration - Please no. The doff system is the doff system and the crafting system should be unrelated. At the very least make doffs have no bearing on the outcome.
3. Too many steps - take a bunch of stuff and turn it in to other things to use to make an final item. This is not an improvement on the current system, over-complicates things, and will put people off using the system.
4. Random quality and modifiers - If you thought lock boxes were unpopular, this will be worse. This takes the reason for crafting and throws it out the window.
5. Costs - Combined with the randomness, you might as well get rid of crafting all together, because I predict very limited usage of the crafting system as is stands.
5. Leveling system - I think it takes too long to progress to a stage where you would be able to craft level appropriate items. Having maxed crafting skills on one of my current toons, the thought of grinding through the process all over again from scratch is something I probably wont do.
Suggestion:
Get rid of the intermediary stage for a common rarity version of the item you are trying to craft. Have additional options to apply a certain modifier of choice up to a max of 3 modifiers with a dil cost for each modifier.
e.g.
Stage 1: Turn materials into a common phaser beam array Mk XII. Material cost increases with the mark of the weapon, but no dil cost.
Stage 2: Add an Acc modifier to the weapon at the cost of say 5k dil, resulting in an uncommon phaser beam array Mk XII [Acc].
Stage 3: Add an additional Acc modifier to the weapon at the cost of 5k dil, resulting in an rare phaser beam array Mk XII [Acc]x2.
Stage 4: Add a CritD modifier to the weapon at the cost of 5k dil, finally resulting in a Very Rare Phaser Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2 [CritD].
This way crafters get exactly what they want in a clear easy to understand way, but at the cost of dilithium. The ability to craft higher marks of gear can be tied to character level so the majority of toons that are currently level 50 will get some immediate benefit from using a new system.
There are other "business" things that can be implemented like crafting the 3rd modifier binds the gear to account and new special crafting project drops from lock boxes (or some new very rare doff missions) that allow the crafting of unique consoles that currently come with c-store ships (because pvp has become out of hand with some of these consoles, and thing are only going downhill). At the end of the day, a decent and fair crafting system will get people investing dilithium in crafting and turning c-store points into dilithium.
TLDR: I will prefer the current system unless some serious changes are made (which is why this is on Tribble in the first place). I then made a suggestion for a rework that in my opinion is better for everyone.
Well, I guess this would make them better than fleet weapons. Better in the sense that you can control the mods more. Maybe have increasing scale for each additional mod. 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k dilithium
This would be an acceptable use of dilithium for crafted items. Lower quality items have a lower dilithium cost, and the higher quality items will have a cost more in line with fleet items. Plus, we get to choose our modifiers.
Crafted items still need something to make them stand apart from other items, including fleet, in game. Not necessarily better, just different .
Legacy weapons in players' inventories, or posted to the Exchange, at the time of the changeover would continue to exist, of course; reputation and fleet stores remain viable alternatives for people willing to ante up the dil and/or marks for an item with a particular desired mod combination. Exotic base weapon types (i.e. nanite-infused disruptor; destabilizing tetryon; bio-molecular phaser) could even be added to the recipe pool as well.
A MK VI weapon is a level 20-30 item, right? What level 20-30 character has 20k dilithium to blow on a single item?
No. All items Mk X or lower do not have a dilithium cost.
As you rank-up towards the higher tiers, you should be able to customise the items you craft more and more.
Examples:
Adding a second effect to a console. I.e so if you have a ship that has phaser weapons and photon projectiles you could craft a console to increase damage on these 2 types.
More varied selection of items? How about crafting unique consumables like an item that would improve performance on your ship in a certain way for a limited duration, like batteries but more varied. Perhaps an upgrade to exotic damage or a certain power?
Basically my point is that since now there are so many ways you can customise your ship builds and characters etc. the crafting system is a perfect way to cater to that variety. It's not about being able to craft the most powerful items in game, more about customisation!
It's called "research" and development, but wheres the research????
Having played Skyrim again recently, an interesting thing about crafting potions is that you could mix and match ingredients with unkown outcomes and thus learn new recipies as you progressed, this method would work well and make crafting infinitely more interesting I think!
When you do research/experiments you learn from failing!
Agreed.
I would even be satisfied if Suffix "modules" were installed during an assembly stage, at the end (and thus fused to the item), allowing customization of the product without later fiddling by the owner. (meaning, create a purple quality Disruptor DHC Assembly with 3 slots, then start an Assembly project, where 3 modules were installed to create a final result)
Regardless - allow customized creation, and have that customization use objects even novice crafters can generate (or allow refinement of novice created items to higher tiers) in order to ensure all tiers of crafting have purpose.
More ideas and review here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1149071
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
How is this new system FUN? Can the designers of this new system honestly said they would enjoy playing it?
1. All component should be in one menu so we don't need to jump all over to get what we need.
2. Allow to choose how many components and how many of what ever item person is trying to create.
3 Random quality of final item must be removed.Nobody will create these items for anything other than "xp".If i'm aiming for green,blue or purple item then it should create that item.
4. It takes far too long to create final item like Quantum Torpedo MK6, 1 hour per item.Should be more like 1 minute.
5. Using dilithium for anything in crafting is not a good idea. I just go over to fleet store and buy directly whatever weapons or items i need.In other words bypassing this crafting system.
6. Item requirement levels: 0, 5 or 10. Wow.I don't even know what to say. Change it to 0,1,2 and 3...? or 0, 2, 4, 6... ? Anything else than 5, 10, 15, 20.... see the idea?
Yet still work in progress...well i say that this system has a long way to go before it's good enough.Will 1 month be enough time to get it there? I'd like to hope so. At it's current state: it's worse than what we have now.
Customizable mods? Nope.
Specific Energy Type? Beats some rep items but not fleet.
Lower Cost? You can gamble for weapons at the cost of 15 marks or get a 100% guaranteed quality out of fleet.
Honestly what is even the point of all this aside from creating a grind? Would it not have the same exact end result just to create a single doff mission for each end piece item similar to the console crafting doff mission?
The more I look at it, the more I think on it, it simply screams of another half assed game system tossed in without the necessary polish or quality to make it shine that creates another item to add into lockboxes/crafting boxes.
A quality R&D system would involve an actual research component that would allow the player to expand their options discovering a variety of potential items to craft and mods or customization tweaks and options to apply to them. An actual development component that would allow the player to piece together the various options into the exact result they desired. If you want to toss in a bit of random it could be a random time period to craft, it could consume a random amount of components, it could have a failure to create chance, it could have random quality of the selected mods being applied.
This? This is just an alternative method of getting a loot box drop from a slightly narrow loot pool.