Please post here for all feedback and bugs regarding the new crafting system Research and Development.
Beams:
Trait: On activating Beam skill, gain 2% Beam damage for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
Cannons:
Trait: On activating Cannon skill, gain +1 Turn Rate, +1 Inertia for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
To encourage more diversity on ships I would propose changing the Beam damage bonus to a flat Energy weapon bonus. Additionally while the turn rate boost will be great on some of my ships, on others it will be pointless and I could see value in getting that boost on some of my ships which use beams.
Would it be terrible to allow both proc options on both weapon types? Crafting is about choice, let us choose the +Dmg proc or +Turn proc for both beams or cannons.
Trait: Your Torpedoes and Mines penetrate an extra 10% of your targets shields
While penetration is nice, especially in PvP, I would much rather see them ignore 10% of my target's shield resistance. Well, even more than that honestly 25% would be really nice.
Trait: Activating any Engineering Bridge Officer ability gives 100% dodge chance with 20% deflect for 3 seconds.
Don't know what deflect means, is that like feedback pulse? And dodge chance in space? Confused. Hope it has an internal cooldown though or it could get pretty silly pretty fast.
The component system is well-used in other MMOs, and works well. However, in those other MMOs, you usually get to see which Components you need to craft to produce the final Item. Here, you have to start the project for the Item you want, look at the Component list and write it down, then go back to the project menu and start crafting the Components. That is not convenient, easy, intuitive or sensible!
Also, don't have dilithium as part of the requirements for Components. If you have it at all, have it only for high level Items
And people's current research points need to be taken in to consideration. I have seven toons with maxxed research points (1650) each, and I don't want to have to start at level 0 for the new system on each and every one. Research points should be able to be traded in for levels in R&D schools, with max points being enough to take all seven schools to level 10at least. If you don't do this, I suspect your new crafting will be dead before it begins
It would also be a good idea to have an indicator of how much XP you need in each school in order to gain the next level
Obviously, it's still heavily a work in progress; rather than gripe about how scary change is, here's a couple issues/suggestions so far:
1.) Have required Components route to their corresponding projects when you click them. (This will be a huge quality of life improvement and make the component system more manageable.)
2.) Beam Arrays beyond Mk II require "Component - Emitter Module", but there is no project to create them. (Are these unlocked as you level up, or is it an oversight?) Edit: The project is mislabeled: "Component - Subproccessor Unit"
3.) Project time calculation does not correspond to the actual project time once started. (Ex. Project lists 1 minute, but the countdown requires 5 minutes.)
4.) Halve the height of each Project button, please. (It really 'feels' like there is too much wasted space and I shudder to think how massive it is for people running smaller resolutions.)
WTF did you do to the star clusters!?!? Exploration missions in the star clusters are biggest single source of research materials, if we can't access them, how the hell are we going to get enough R&D materials to build anything meaningful? We don't want to be limited to DOff missions in star clusters, we want to actually get out there and "explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no-one has gone before." Recognise the quote? Oh, and before you say we can collect materials in missions, no new mission since LoR has had anomaly nodes to scan, so that's all the early KDF and Romulan missions, Nimbus III, New Romulus, and the Dyson Sphere, all out for collecting research materials.
WTF did you do to the star clusters!?!? Exploration missions in the star clusters are biggest single source of research materials, if we can't access them, how the hell are we going to get enough R&D materials to build anything meaningful? We don't want to be limited to DOff missions in star clusters, we want to actually get out there and "explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no-one has gone before." Recognise the quote? Oh, and before you say we can collect materials in missions, no new mission since LoR has had anomaly nodes to scan, so that's all the early KDF and Romulan missions, Nimbus III, New Romulus, and the Dyson Sphere, all out for collecting research materials.
Not to mention, replaying the same missions over and over gets old. At least with exploration clusters, the missions were randomized (plus we didn't even necessarily have to do the missions to get mats). This is a bad, bad change.
Other than that, I'm enjoying what I'm seeing so far of the system on Tribble, though I agree that the dil costs are way too steep.
1. whoever came up with the idea to let you trade 1u a time should get fired...
2. not letting us know what were trading our resources for is also a bit of a bad move. this is not roulett were playing, this is a trade the old for the new. we need to know what were trading, becouse we know what we need and want...
4. agreed, if we need 3 of the same items to make a weapon, then let us chose to make 3. and simply add the time of making one and multiply it by 3.
5. alot of us have the old crafting system maxed out. we should be given somewhere between 50% of the entire crafting system if not all in the new crafting system as a reward for already having the crafting system maxed out.
Don't TRIBBLE us over again like you did with the reputation system.
Responding in order...
1) A dev has already said they're looking into this as it would be a huge Quality of Life (QoL) improvement.
2) Agreed...to some extent. While I'm hoping we can get "X data sample = 1-3 of Y material", I think random is all we're going to get.
My problem with the randomness is that Particle Traces don't award random Rare materials...all of the time. They CAN, but they can also give multiples of Common and Uncommon materials.
"4") This would be a huge QoL improvement as well. If we have enough materials, let us make X amount of a component at a time. You can even limit it (no more than 5 of the same thing per task run, time to complete is X seconds/minute * Y number of components being made), but we need to be able to make multiples at the same time.
"5") There will be some reward to those who maxed out the old system. Either "they will" or "they're looking into it", but it's not being ignored that players put in time and resources to maxing the current system.
LET ME ADD THE FOLLOWING...
* One of the biggest problems I'm seeing in the feedback threads and Patch Notes thread is the randomness compared to the Diltihium cost. If we're going to spend Dilithium on anything, we better be guaranteed the result we want. Rep gear and Fleet Stores serve this purpose. We know to spend X amount of Dilithium for a Beam Array with certain mods or a Fleet Elite Shield Array with certain procs and protections.
If Dilithium is to stay in this R&D system, we need one of two things:
1) The ability to guarantee what we get, including (among type of items and Mk level we already have) rarity and perhaps mods. If guaranteeing results means we pay as much (or more) Dilithium for the gear, that's fine. At least we know heading into the project that what we want is what we'll get.
OR
2) Lower the Dilithium costs drastically. If this is random, I want to know that I'm not spending too much hard-earned Dilithium on sub-par gear. If a Rare item is the most likely outcome, then the Dilithium cost should reflect a Rare's worth of gear Dilithium cost.
I'll run this for traits. I think having those traits available is smart for a player so they have options. But as for investing into making a ton of gear? I may pass, depending on the final version.
If Dilithium is to stay in this R&D system, we need one of two things:
1) The ability to guarantee what we get, including (among type of items and Mk level we already have) rarity and perhaps mods. If guaranteeing results means we pay as much (or more) Dilithium for the gear, that's fine. At least we know heading into the project that what we want is what we'll get.
OR
2) Lower the Dilithium costs drastically. If this is random, I want to know that I'm not spending too much hard-earned Dilithium on sub-par gear. If a Rare item is the most likely outcome, then the Dilithium cost should reflect a Rare's worth of gear Dilithium cost.
- the doff ui needs to be restored to how it was before, the new UI sucks. All the important information for doff assignments is missing, the unimportant stuff is super scaled some parts are even so big they don't fit. Try to fit the crafting stuff into the existing ui without breaking what worked great before.
- if you have to kill off exploration clusters preserve at least its functionality. Cluster missions need to be available on bridge interieurs. Also we are totally losing the extra chance to find missions on department heads here... its like you guys totally butcher the doff system just to get this rather not so great looking new crafting system in. thats not cool.
So Cryptic things I will pay 20k... even if they halve it to 10k. They think I will pay that much dilihitum for a role at a piece of gear that may or may not be what I want. (most likely not... in fact if you want specific mods good luck with that).
This is silly.
In the new rep system we plug in some marks some xp some ec... and we get a chance box just like this silly crafting system.
So I can do that ever hour for a completed rep and have a chance to get a random piece of rep gear... only that mission will pay me a small bit of D as well. (in fact its slighly more then you get for just converting marks to D). So it makes sense to throw your marks in there every hour and try to get some useful gear.
This crafting system they are expecting us to pay it.... for the same type of time gated chance role.
Stupid. I don't care if they dropped the D cost to 1k .... I still won't bother. Even if all the gear had a 4th mod. Terrible system.
Cryptic seriously rethink this... I get it you want $... but there are far less annoying ways to do that.
Here is how you make money with out ticking people off by trying to charge them for chance roles on pretty basic level gear.
1) kill all the D costs on any standard crafted stuff (including MK XII gear). (if you must add it for set gear or something people won't break out pitch forks)
2) in fact REWARD a small amount of D on completion of crafting crits ect... perhaps even add a few wrapper missions... like Star Fleet thanks you for your efforts, in creating 10 ship weapons. 480D + some XP reward.
3) Make money by tying Crafting together with Lockbox rewards.
How do you tie lockboxes in with crafting... its simple You add the following types of things to the lockboxes.
- Special Crafting Doff mission boxes (unlock a mission to rewards Massive amounts of mats.. and perhaps rewards crafting XP)
- Special Ultra level Crafting components and one time use scematics(mission) to create an ultra level item. This could be 4 mod weapons, perhaps missions that always produce purple quality. (or fleet level quality).
- Special Crafted trait boxes. Would it perhaps be annoying to be rewarded a trait you couldn't use until you "Crafted it" ya perhaps... however perhaps it would be an actual crafting trait. Something like Polymath - Trait provides a 10% increase to doff mission effect. Or Precognition - Being able to sense disaster in the near future allows you to keep your crew from harm (failed doff missions are less likely to injure or kill crew members)
- Special crafting components. something like "Omega Particle" containment systems. (they could be used to craft Set gear... for space and ground.) Each piece of the sets requiring one of these special items. (This could even be away to aquire other sets already in game... perhaps having 3-5 of these lockbox reward items would allow you to craft a piece of lobi gear ect)
Anyway my point is... the idea of all the D being spent trying to role for gear though a crafting systme is simply never going to fly. Unless you flat out make the crafted gear so crazy OP that people would have no choice. In which case many will just leave the game, or grumble more often about how annoying it is to try and get what they want from "ST RNG The next Gen - STO"
The times seem to be incorrectly listed. Some projects list a 1 minute cool down, when they are in fact 15+ minute cooldowns. Also, please scrap the freemium aspect of the new crafting system. 75 dilithium to instantly finish the cooldown? That just seems like a grab for dil. Why not just force it to be a 15 minute cooldown with no way to speed it up, just like the doff system and rep system?
So i did a little crafting this morning to try out the system. Found I had more then a few old craft items to convert into new items.
I know people have asked for a slider for that. I want to echo that.
My biggest issue is the difficulty of getting anything useful from crafting. If I want to Craft say a MKVII (or any other mark) Personal Shield, I have to except the assignment for it. Figure out which type I want, and then play a "Fun" little back and forth game to figure out what components I need and what to craft before I can even start the project. So basically I have to confirm my Regenerative Shield MkVII, find out I need a whatever component, cancel the project, hunt down where ever said component. Craft. Reconfirm Regenerative Shield MkVII and then Rinse and Repeat the process all over again till I actually have all the components to make the Shield I want.
Either that or spend hours crafting potentially useless junk in order to make sure I have EVERYTHING so I can finally craft something useful.
There needs to be some way to streamline this process. If I want to Craft an Item, there should be an easy way to find out what I need without constantly confirming and cancelling the project so I can get the components.
I dont tested the system yet, but I wish to ask: Is the crafted items better than older system ? And yet, is it better than fleet items ?
To be honest, what is the advantage, for the player, to craft an inferior (to rp, fleet ) items ?
Because, if the items is still inferior or it is a lottery, the system will stay abandoned for the most players. After all, we have very good fleet items and reputation items. And P2W consoles.
I dont tested the system yet, but I wish to ask: Is the crafted items better than older system ? And yet, is it better than fleet items ?
To be honest, what is the advantage, for the player, to craft an inferior (to rp, fleet ) items ?
Because, if the items is still inferior or it is a lottery, the system will stay abandoned for the most players. After all, we have very good fleet items and reputation items. And P2W consoles.
Yes the new Items have more buffs - like Beam fire at will gets a buff though the new beams.:(:(:(
It seems very difficult to find out what you actually need to build a particular item.
Also, I think it's very problematic that you can't actually choose modifiers or be certain what kind of rarity the item will be.
You may say the cost for an item is less Dilithium then for a reputation item, but that ignores that I may not even get the item that I want.
In the dilithium, fleet or rep stores, I choose what item I want. The choice is limited, of course, but I know this is exactly what I will get. I know it will be worth the Dilithium I spend for it.
I don't know that for an R&D item. It's in fact likely I will not get what I want, considering the amount of available modifiers in the first place.
You need to severely limit the amount of randomization if you want the system have a good chance of being used in the first place.
One option here:
Let us choose the modifiers we want as paramemters (like we can select the specific type of console and the Mark), but keep the quality random based on DOFF and skill level. If the highest rarity isn't reached, fill up the items modifiers from the list of selected ones.
For example:
Parameters for Beam Array:
o Energy Type
o Mark
o Primary Mod
o Secondary Mod
o Tertiary Mod
So if a player chooses to make a Phaser beam array Mark XI with Acc, CritH, Dmg a mods, if he gets a uncommon version, he gets an Phaser Beam Array XI [Acc], if he gets a rare result he gets a Phaser Beam Array XI [Acc] [CritH]and if he gets a very rare result he gets a Phaser Beam Array XI [Acc] [CritH] [DMG].
That is still less than optimal for the players, so I still think the dilithium cost need to be severely reduced, but at least you can be reasonably certain you get something along the lines you actually wanted, and something you can likely also sell on the exchange if it's not very rare.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
So anyway, after having had a little more time to think about it (I really wasn't expecting anything until next Tuesday at the earliest - so it caught me off guard, and I jumped into it without thinking a bit...so uh, yeah...my replies were a bit like those I was arguing against in the R&D blog thraed)...
Given that you've dropped Redshirt out there, S9.5's a late/end July launch, we're here with more than a week left in June, and things usually get locked in for the launch about a week or so before that drop...I'd say we're looking at some early/partial stuff here, right? Cause we've got close to a month of testing and there's no need for what's there to be tested for a month - nor for any of the "bugs" to take a month to tweak. There are some goofball things there that might take a couple weeks with everything else going on, but nothing for the time frame we're looking at, eh?
So, given that perhaps highly delusional and hopeful thought process, I'll try to offer some feedback based on what I've seen so far - compared to the old, compared to what I personally desire, maybe even questioning some of the other things I've read about, and well - yeah...this may or may not get long (I might go off for a smoke and forget where I was)...
First, some of the things that I felt were wrong with the old R&D (crafting) system:
1) The gear simply wasn't competitive for the most part with all the gear you were tossing at us from multiple sources. While some might take this as a prime example of how much powercreep has infested the game, this isn't a discussion about how much powercreep has infested the game, is it? If somebody wants to talk about how much powercreep has infested the game, there are plenty of threads out there discussing how much powercreep has infested the game and folks are always free to create additional threads about how much powercreep has infested the game.
Basically, the current (Holodeck) R&D system mainly lets you craft vendor trash with very few items that the folks would want (imho, of course - folks want what they want, and it's not my place to tell them what they want)...very few - tiny - itty bitty list.
For the most part, you can get better gear simply by doing almost anything but R&D. Even standing around a social zone, not really paying attention to what's going on because you're addicted to the forums and posting on your other monitor...some random player is more likely to give you something you need in some random generous moment than you are to get something from the R&D system.
2) Well, what about alts? Surely there is some decent gear there for an alt or a friend that's new to the game? You can blink and they will have outleveled whatever gear you crafted them. This isn't a discussion about how ridiculously fast leveling is though, is it? If somebody wants to talk about how ridiculously fast leveling is, there are a few threads out there discussing how ridiculously fast leveling is and folks are always free to create additional threads about how ridiculously fast leveling is.
Basically, outside of folks that put significant amount of effort into not leveling - you simply do not have much of a need for any of the gear outside of vendor trash. Mileage will obviously vary, but some folks are measuring in yards and some in inches if that.
3) The cost to craft the vendor trash, level up the ability to craft vendor trash...the cost - the cost is ludicrous. Outside of folks that were ordered to do community service and crafting at a loss was considered acceptable, c'mon - you've got the data on how many folks bothered with crafting. It would be one thing to craft vendor trash if it cost like vendor trash to do, but with the ludicrous costs...yeah...not happening.
Wait, VD, no side rant on Dil costs in general? Nope, not a complaint I have - I'm not a toddler that wants everything in a toy store, I'm an adult that realizes I have limited funds and sometimes I'll have to choose what I want and wait on other stuff.
4) In the time that it has taken me to reach this point in my post, some folks would have already maxed crafting on Holodeck. The system is just too fast. Now sure, the vast majority of things in STO are too fast; but this isn't a discussion about the vast majority of things in STO are too fast though, is it? If somebody wants to have a discussion about the vast majority of things in STO being too fast, I'm sure they could find a thread discussing that the vast majority of things in STO being too fast or they could create their own thread discussing that the vast majority of things in STO are too fast, couldn't they?
While not everybody's the same, some folks simply don't have any sense of accomplishment from completing something that gives no sense of accomplishment. While some are fine playing a game of peek-a-boo with short 'n quick giggles, some folks need to feel some form of effort resulted in some form of reward. Doesn't mean that each and every moment in the crafting system needs to be a struggle, but if it's just a mindless quick little grind - it's going to look like a mindless quick little system.
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Meh, that's enough about the old system, eh? Let's take a look at how the new system is or is not addressing any of the above, eh?
Okay then, let's start off with the competitive nature of the gear. The gear "can be" competitive - comparable - at it's reduced price...folks might go for that with alts, depending on what they want. Could be a niche thing, might work - might not.
BUT...it's not going to work the way it is. It's random. You might get a piece that you might have thought was worth the investment. You might. Odds are you're going to get vendor trash. Sure, sure...it didn't cost as much to make this vendor trash as it does in the current system, but you've still just made vendor trash all the same.
Right now, folks can get Very Rare Antiproton Beam Array Mk XI [Acc][CrtH][Dmg] from a mission. That's a guaranteed reward option. For many folks, that's going to be fine. They're just gearing an alt, probably throwing in the 2pc Obelisk as well. It's all free gear, just the time investment - no resources/currencies to get it.
So why are they going to spend resources on the chance to craft the same thing or something even worse?
If they could choose what they were getting, would be one thing. Perhaps they wanted a Mk XII of that AP Array, eh? Perhaps they wanted Mk XI AP DHCs that aren't offered? Perhaps they wanted different mods? Perhaps they wanted a different energy type? You know...if they could get what they wanted instead of what they could already get or end up with something they don't want...
...that would be an incentive to get into some R&D. As it stands though...er...folks might grind it out with the cheapest components to get the Traits and ignore the rest. Oh, they might also craft those very few items from the current system at the reduced cost.
Which kind of gets into the next two items from above, eh?
Removing the Dil cost from the Mk X and down crafting - nice move, imho. Sure, folks can outlevel stuff in a blink of an eye - but as folks are working their R&D and putting stuff out...it might actually sell at a reasonable price and create a pseudo viable market there, eh?
For the life of me, I just do not get all the complaints about the increased cost in Dil folks are talking about with the new system. Sure, there's the risk of not getting what you wanted - so one could take that angle and run with it; but the majority of the folks babbling on about increased costs...it's as if they never crafted anything. The Dil costs have been massively reduced for R&D. That in of itself, is pretty damn nifty as well...
...course, you go back to the random nature of it and the odds being that you get something you don't want - and...yeah, it's epic /facepalm time. Costs won't matter in the least if it's not something that somebody wants. The reduction in Dil costs was a huge move on Cryptic's part - awesome - great - super - all the positive superlatives you can shake a stick at...but it doesn't mean diddly squat with the very minor chance of actually getting anything you want.
Well, that leaves the time investment. Heh - 2,070,000 XP to get to level 20 in each profession. 14,490,000 XP to get all seven to level 20. That's kind of a case of going from one extreme to the other, eh? When you add in the various resources/components needed...and...you start doing the various calculations if you want the traits on multiple toons - etc, etc, etc.
Let me step aside here, I tend to argue in favor of things needing to take time. It's a MMO, it's not a weekend console game that you blow through. And it would be one thing if everything in the game was set on such a scale as far as time goes...would be pretty nifty, imho (company would go out of business cause everybody else would hate it but me)...but the rest of the game is for the most part blink and you're done. It stands out like a sore thumb in comparison. Perhaps some sort of compromise needs to be made there? Not dropping it down to the silly blink and done that it is currently, but scaled a little more toward how time flies in the current game - even if it is at the longer edge of that, eh?
**********
Okay, how about some other feedback, eh?
I like the component crafting angle. It simulates supply chain and will provide markets at multiple levels to stimulate the game's economy. I don't get the complaints about it - when it provides so many additional options by going that route. Oh well, this is a game where folks tend to hate on anything requiring thought or the least bit of something with the hint of effort...
It's missing the R&D part. Lolwut? Basically, it's not R&D - it's manufacturing. Guess that's a problem with the current system too...it's just manufacturing. It would be extremely nifty if it could be taken to the next level with some R&D. Mix up some of those components, add in some additional components, work in different species of DOFFs...basically, if there was a puzzle element above and beyond just the manufacturing process. I'm not talking about adding that into the current bit of where you want to build X - you should be able to build X. I'm talking about if you want to see what might happen in trying to build a better X and what that might get you.
Sure, at some point somebody will just collect all the data for all the variables and drop out guides on all the different things you can do to make the better than X gear...but it gives you a means to keep the crafting alive as the game progresses and new puzzles are added with various seasons, expansions, and even lock boxes (oh, the horror - why did you go there, VD?)...etc, etc, etc.
That would be an area to introduce some RNG - you'll always get your X, but if you do this - you might have a chance at the better X.
Couldn't one say that's how things are? Yeah, one could say it's 20k Dil for a Green Mk XII with a TRIBBLE mod...and that anything you got better than that was awesome! Yeah, no..that's garbage. I'm talking about the 20k Dil for a Purple Mk XII with the mods you want...where if you also do XYZ, you've got a chance at something magical happening. That's where you work the "lock box" play into it. I open Lock Boxes because they give me 4 Lobi. Sure, they might give me more and they may give me other stuff...but that's why I open them. I do Rep Hourlies because they reward more Dil than the straight conversion. I might get something else...but that's why I open them. So give folks their X...but give them the chance for something better, give them a reason to gamble. Don't make the simplest of things a gamble...
Each of the schools should have all the components needed. I mentioned it before, as have others, but I want to say it again. If I've got a bajillion XP in one school, that's going to affect my chances of making multiple components from resources. If I have to go to a school where I've got 5 XP to make the component, eventually that's going to get pretty old.
Actually, I noticed in the Shield school that when I reached a certain level - the component I'd been using was no longer available in that school. Not sure if it was a bug or intended...but it was annoying all the same.
If it's a case that you want us to level multiple schools to do certain things, then perhaps that needs to be laid out a little better and more consistently, eh?
Meh, there's more I'd say - but I need to go float around Risa, click some Fluidic Rep projects, and decide if I want to continue leveling the new toon I made...thinking that crafting might have been going a certain direction that it at this point obviously has not....
...oh wait, needed to bring up this point again. Unless you want folks to run macro programs to deal with converting thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon thousands of old materials to new materials; you may just want to do something about that single conversion mechanic.
Hey Devs! If you want to know what a decent crafting system with Components looks like, go play a few hours of Lord of the Rings Online. What you've got here is terrible.
The results of what you craft are not guaranteed - if we're spending dilithium, we should be guaranteed Blue MkXI gear at minimum. There should not even be a non-zero chance of crafting a Green or White MkXII Item.
There are way too many steps involved in actually creating an item - we should be able to click on a Component to craft it, then click on an Item to craft that using the Components we've just crafted, not faff about adding catalysts and selecting DOffs
Too many Components are needed for the Items, and there is no way of telling what Components you need without actually beginning an Item.
We need to be able to make Components in batches, especially if we need multiples of the same Component to make an Item.
The levelling curve is ridiculous - an exponential increase of XP required per level is just stupid, the rep system and DOff ranks have the reverse of that
You've removed the quickest and most effective way of getting materials by removing exploration missions and access to star clusters
The exchange mechanism from the old particles to the new materials is random, and shouldn't be. All the other things you replaced with new things (like Dyson Commendations) had a direct and fixed conversion rate to the thing that replaced them, even if it was sometimes disadvantageous.
If you insist on including DOffs in the new crafting system, use them instead of the catalysts - the better quality DOff you use, the greater the chance of an extra bonus to the crafted item (an extra [Mod], an increase in quality, an increase in Mark, or the chance to not actually have spent any resources in making it)
Random mods are the killer for me. Quality variance is at least paritally believable, since the DOFFs can be blamed for that, but randomized mods aren't crafting they are lotto. What you should do:
1) Make each mod require special material. If you want [Acc]x3 you need (3) of the resource that grants [Acc].
2) Use difficulty ratings to determine failure rate of applying each mod to the product. Say you have 40% chance of applying [Acc], and if you are going for [Acc]x3 that is 40% chance on each roll. So if you fail one of them you end up with [Acc]x2 instead of [Acc]x3. Higher base skill in a tree, should be used to boost minimum success rate, so if you are max you never get green quality.
3) Limit the availability of special materials. You can make these very rare reward drops from harvesting nodes, mission reward drops, intermediate craftables, etc. Eventually these could be incorporated into faction-based reputation systems too, things like Deferi sell some very rare materials to people with high reputation, etc. This also provides the base materials that are needed for a comprehensive end-game trading system, where people specialize in acquiring VR materials and selling them.
Otherwise, if you keep random mods you should stop calling it "crafting" overhaul because it isnt.
In the brief time i have tried this new crafting i have to say how boring it is, click this click that make 1 item..... sooooo boring ( plus my wrist and hand is killing me from the repeated mindless clicking ).
Why can we not make multiples of what ever item with a slide bar ( if you have the materials of course ) or are your just trying to bore us all to death with the repetitive nature of doing this?
Converting the old items to new is also a click fest and very boring. Now i can understand you not wanting players to be able to power through any of these stages fast but i feel a lot may be put off with how boring and tedious this is to do.
Also changing the doff system is a step in the wrong direction imho. Also why show anything from higher school levels in the UI if we don't qualify for them dont show us them until we level enough for us to be able to use them.
Random mods are the killer for me. Quality variance is at least paritally believable, since the DOFFs can be blamed for that, but randomized mods aren't crafting they are lotto. What you should do:
1) Make each mod require special material. If you want [Acc]x3 you need (3) of the resource that grants [Acc].
(snip...)
Oh, I really like that idea.
I think the biggest problem is the lack of ability to pick what mods we want on our weapons, and we have ways of doing that already (Reps and Fleet). The crafting system need that ability to be viable.
What's going to happen to schematics? You know, that thing we had to get before we could build the thing we were creating?
I've got a few lying around that I didn't use after the system started requiring unreplicated materials. For that matter, I've got an old Delta Flyer schematic I got stuck with when I couldn't complete the old Delta Flyer mission before they put it in the C-Store.
It would be lovely if some of those schematics got translated into materials or even R&D xp.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I'll acknowledge that this is still in testing phase and there are probably graphic/balance/up tweaks in process to come, so I'll just address what seems like the biggest problem with crafting in this form:
Your end result is unknown.
Here's what I mean: If a craftsman sets out to make something, he has the end result in mind. He knows the details of what he is making and how it will turn out. However, with this new system, very little is known about what we will end up with. It's more like "experimenting" than "crafting".
I understand the needs of gameplay and your business model requiring time gating and some monetization, but in think that should come in the components, not the final product.
For instance, say I want to produce a Phaser beam array mk Xii [Acc]x2 [CrtH]
I should be able to create a Very Rare Phaser Beam Array Mk XII "frame" with three upgrade slots, and 2 [Acc] items and 1 [CrtH] items to slot in that frame as the final step in that process. Making the frame and items can each be individually difficult with random chances if success or results, but once I have collected those components I can create the device I need.
Other notes:
*the new Doff UI needs to display traits when selecting Doffs for non R&D missions
*R&D XP needs to be drastically increased. I think this is known, but I'll say it just in case.
I'll be brutally honest here, I'm disappointed. This isn't a revamp, just you guys changing the Crafting system into the DOFF system. I'm sorry Devs, but this is NOT what people wanted.
1) The UI is horrible and unintuitive
2) Instead of lowering Dilithum Costs, you actually are increasing it.
3) Recipes are bland and uncreative.
4) Inability to choose rarity type, it's all just dumb DOFF random luck in what you get.
5) Inability to choose the modifiers.
6) Recipes that once took a few seconds, now take hours. Unless you buy it immediately with a massive Dilithium Tax.
7) No room for add on recipes like the Jem'Hadar Weapon Packs.
8) No Sign of Melee Weapon Crafting
9) No Sign of Kit Module Crafting
10) No Freedom of Creativity
11) Conversion Rates from old Mats to New Mats is horrendous. I had over 200 particles, barely reached level 1 in one of the schools. So of us who are crafting vets, we have to start completely over.
12) A new mega grind.
Right now, I am extremely disappointed that in all this time, this is what you guys came up with. Especially when people who wanted a crafting revamp was asking for systems of the best crafting in all MMOs like Everquest, Dark Ages of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies, and more. Instead, you turn this into a DOFF - Rep grind. We want to feel like we are creating the items. Look at Sisko, he was hands-on with the Defiant. Janeway was hands-on with projects. Picard was hands-on with some things too.
...
Also the crafting system is a golden opportunity for you to create new NPC vendors in dead spots that players could be sent to, to buy components for crafting.
I'm sorry Cryptic, but I do not endorse this new system.
I'm forced to agree with virtually all of the above. I am certainly willing to pay dilithium for crafted gear, but not for random crafted gear that has a high probability of being worthless.
When I set out to craft something in real life, let's say a nice meal, I have a lot of control over the results. I don't assemble my ingredients and then hope that I roll a critical hit on my ability to properly boil water for the pasta, and that I'll get fresh papardelle instead of expired gluten-free spaghetti. My ingredients, for the most part, determine the results.
I know what I'm trying to make. It may not turn out perfectly, but I'm not cooking to make a random, generic meal. I think that crafting should reflect a similar mentality. The system, as it stands, relies far too much on gambling and mass production, hoping you'll occasionally strike it rich with a purple accx3. That's what a loot table is for, in my opinion.
Combine that randomness with an impossibly cumbersome workflow in order to craft items, and you've got a system that I won't be spending any time with when it launches.
I'm not saying this just to burn the new system -- it's obvious you spent a lot of time on this. I'm saying this so that some of my thoughts might be of use to you as you re-evaluate.
I'd have like to make my first feedback post a bit longer, after I'd worked with the new system long enough to get a good impression. Unfortunately, I'm stuck unable to craft anything because I only had three particle traces on the particular character I have on Tribble. As such, I can neither craft components nor create items from said components.
My ability to get materials has been DRAMATICALLY decreased by the removal of cluster exploration. Objectively, I can understand that there was a need to reduce the availability to materials. But with material gathering options now limited to scoring well on dilithium mining and radiation scans, buying them from the exchange (at insanely inflated prices), or lucking out on repeating episodes, I've got the distinct feeling that many players won't find the system in its current form worth their time and effort.
If there's an incoming exploration revamp that will allow players more ways to obtain materials, that's all well and good. But if this exploration revamp isn't coming until Expansion 2 (making assumptions here), then the new crafting system will just about be dead on arrival.
Also, as others have noted, the random modifier aspect of the items we craft doesn't sit very well. Like the removal of star clusters, I recognize that it was a design decision intended to increase the length of player participation in the new system by not always giving them what they want or need. From the position of a player, however, I'd much rather have to craft additional items that can be applied to projects in order to give the resulting gear the modifiers I want. I'd even be alright with a chance for the modifiers to not take, forcing the object to be crafted again until the desired results are achieved. As it stands, there's no player agency. It's all random chance. And that will further discourage players from using the system.
That's it for now. I'm going to see if I can start scrounging up materials so that I can actually work with the system enough to come to an informed opinion.
EDIT: While typing this, the doff mission list for Delta Volanis updated, and now includes a few missions that should reward materials upon success. While still not ideal, IMO, I'm going to give them a shot and see what sort of mats I get, the quantity of said mats, and how long it takes for a cluster to give more mat missions.
Comments
To encourage more diversity on ships I would propose changing the Beam damage bonus to a flat Energy weapon bonus. Additionally while the turn rate boost will be great on some of my ships, on others it will be pointless and I could see value in getting that boost on some of my ships which use beams.
Would it be terrible to allow both proc options on both weapon types? Crafting is about choice, let us choose the +Dmg proc or +Turn proc for both beams or cannons.
While penetration is nice, especially in PvP, I would much rather see them ignore 10% of my target's shield resistance. Well, even more than that honestly 25% would be really nice.
Science powers cannot critical. I don't understand this unless I'm misunderstanding something.
Don't know what deflect means, is that like feedback pulse? And dodge chance in space? Confused. Hope it has an internal cooldown though or it could get pretty silly pretty fast.
The component system is well-used in other MMOs, and works well. However, in those other MMOs, you usually get to see which Components you need to craft to produce the final Item. Here, you have to start the project for the Item you want, look at the Component list and write it down, then go back to the project menu and start crafting the Components. That is not convenient, easy, intuitive or sensible!
Also, don't have dilithium as part of the requirements for Components. If you have it at all, have it only for high level Items
And people's current research points need to be taken in to consideration. I have seven toons with maxxed research points (1650) each, and I don't want to have to start at level 0 for the new system on each and every one. Research points should be able to be traded in for levels in R&D schools, with max points being enough to take all seven schools to level 10 at least. If you don't do this, I suspect your new crafting will be dead before it begins
It would also be a good idea to have an indicator of how much XP you need in each school in order to gain the next level
1.) Have required Components route to their corresponding projects when you click them. (This will be a huge quality of life improvement and make the component system more manageable.)
2.) Beam Arrays beyond Mk II require "Component - Emitter Module", but there is no project to create them. (Are these unlocked as you level up, or is it an oversight?) Edit: The project is mislabeled: "Component - Subproccessor Unit"
3.) Project time calculation does not correspond to the actual project time once started. (Ex. Project lists 1 minute, but the countdown requires 5 minutes.)
4.) Halve the height of each Project button, please. (It really 'feels' like there is too much wasted space and I shudder to think how massive it is for people running smaller resolutions.)
Not to mention, replaying the same missions over and over gets old. At least with exploration clusters, the missions were randomized (plus we didn't even necessarily have to do the missions to get mats). This is a bad, bad change.
Other than that, I'm enjoying what I'm seeing so far of the system on Tribble, though I agree that the dil costs are way too steep.
Responding in order...
1) A dev has already said they're looking into this as it would be a huge Quality of Life (QoL) improvement.
2) Agreed...to some extent. While I'm hoping we can get "X data sample = 1-3 of Y material", I think random is all we're going to get.
My problem with the randomness is that Particle Traces don't award random Rare materials...all of the time. They CAN, but they can also give multiples of Common and Uncommon materials.
"4") This would be a huge QoL improvement as well. If we have enough materials, let us make X amount of a component at a time. You can even limit it (no more than 5 of the same thing per task run, time to complete is X seconds/minute * Y number of components being made), but we need to be able to make multiples at the same time.
"5") There will be some reward to those who maxed out the old system. Either "they will" or "they're looking into it", but it's not being ignored that players put in time and resources to maxing the current system.
LET ME ADD THE FOLLOWING...
* One of the biggest problems I'm seeing in the feedback threads and Patch Notes thread is the randomness compared to the Diltihium cost. If we're going to spend Dilithium on anything, we better be guaranteed the result we want. Rep gear and Fleet Stores serve this purpose. We know to spend X amount of Dilithium for a Beam Array with certain mods or a Fleet Elite Shield Array with certain procs and protections.
If Dilithium is to stay in this R&D system, we need one of two things:
1) The ability to guarantee what we get, including (among type of items and Mk level we already have) rarity and perhaps mods. If guaranteeing results means we pay as much (or more) Dilithium for the gear, that's fine. At least we know heading into the project that what we want is what we'll get.
OR
2) Lower the Dilithium costs drastically. If this is random, I want to know that I'm not spending too much hard-earned Dilithium on sub-par gear. If a Rare item is the most likely outcome, then the Dilithium cost should reflect a Rare's worth of gear Dilithium cost.
I'll run this for traits. I think having those traits available is smart for a player so they have options. But as for investing into making a ton of gear? I may pass, depending on the final version.
Hover over the XP bar...
YES, thank you. STO already has enough gambling.
- the doff ui needs to be restored to how it was before, the new UI sucks. All the important information for doff assignments is missing, the unimportant stuff is super scaled some parts are even so big they don't fit. Try to fit the crafting stuff into the existing ui without breaking what worked great before.
- if you have to kill off exploration clusters preserve at least its functionality. Cluster missions need to be available on bridge interieurs. Also we are totally losing the extra chance to find missions on department heads here... its like you guys totally butcher the doff system just to get this rather not so great looking new crafting system in. thats not cool.
This is silly.
In the new rep system we plug in some marks some xp some ec... and we get a chance box just like this silly crafting system.
So I can do that ever hour for a completed rep and have a chance to get a random piece of rep gear... only that mission will pay me a small bit of D as well. (in fact its slighly more then you get for just converting marks to D). So it makes sense to throw your marks in there every hour and try to get some useful gear.
This crafting system they are expecting us to pay it.... for the same type of time gated chance role.
Stupid. I don't care if they dropped the D cost to 1k .... I still won't bother. Even if all the gear had a 4th mod. Terrible system.
Cryptic seriously rethink this... I get it you want $... but there are far less annoying ways to do that.
Here is how you make money with out ticking people off by trying to charge them for chance roles on pretty basic level gear.
1) kill all the D costs on any standard crafted stuff (including MK XII gear). (if you must add it for set gear or something people won't break out pitch forks)
2) in fact REWARD a small amount of D on completion of crafting crits ect... perhaps even add a few wrapper missions... like Star Fleet thanks you for your efforts, in creating 10 ship weapons. 480D + some XP reward.
3) Make money by tying Crafting together with Lockbox rewards.
How do you tie lockboxes in with crafting... its simple You add the following types of things to the lockboxes.
- Special Crafting Doff mission boxes (unlock a mission to rewards Massive amounts of mats.. and perhaps rewards crafting XP)
- Special Ultra level Crafting components and one time use scematics(mission) to create an ultra level item. This could be 4 mod weapons, perhaps missions that always produce purple quality. (or fleet level quality).
- Special Crafted trait boxes. Would it perhaps be annoying to be rewarded a trait you couldn't use until you "Crafted it" ya perhaps... however perhaps it would be an actual crafting trait. Something like Polymath - Trait provides a 10% increase to doff mission effect. Or Precognition - Being able to sense disaster in the near future allows you to keep your crew from harm (failed doff missions are less likely to injure or kill crew members)
- Special crafting components. something like "Omega Particle" containment systems. (they could be used to craft Set gear... for space and ground.) Each piece of the sets requiring one of these special items. (This could even be away to aquire other sets already in game... perhaps having 3-5 of these lockbox reward items would allow you to craft a piece of lobi gear ect)
Anyway my point is... the idea of all the D being spent trying to role for gear though a crafting systme is simply never going to fly. Unless you flat out make the crafted gear so crazy OP that people would have no choice. In which case many will just leave the game, or grumble more often about how annoying it is to try and get what they want from "ST RNG The next Gen - STO"
Also, components need to be able to made in batches (1, any number or as much as you have components).
As this currently stands, I see no incentive to start crafting.
I know people have asked for a slider for that. I want to echo that.
My biggest issue is the difficulty of getting anything useful from crafting. If I want to Craft say a MKVII (or any other mark) Personal Shield, I have to except the assignment for it. Figure out which type I want, and then play a "Fun" little back and forth game to figure out what components I need and what to craft before I can even start the project. So basically I have to confirm my Regenerative Shield MkVII, find out I need a whatever component, cancel the project, hunt down where ever said component. Craft. Reconfirm Regenerative Shield MkVII and then Rinse and Repeat the process all over again till I actually have all the components to make the Shield I want.
Either that or spend hours crafting potentially useless junk in order to make sure I have EVERYTHING so I can finally craft something useful.
There needs to be some way to streamline this process. If I want to Craft an Item, there should be an easy way to find out what I need without constantly confirming and cancelling the project so I can get the components.
Torps are so weak that Transphasics need a major Dmg buff or an increase in shield penetration to say 60%
Right now most players just laugh them off.
I dont tested the system yet, but I wish to ask: Is the crafted items better than older system ? And yet, is it better than fleet items ?
To be honest, what is the advantage, for the player, to craft an inferior (to rp, fleet ) items ?
Because, if the items is still inferior or it is a lottery, the system will stay abandoned for the most players. After all, we have very good fleet items and reputation items. And P2W consoles.
Yes the new Items have more buffs - like Beam fire at will gets a buff though the new beams.:(:(:(
Also, I think it's very problematic that you can't actually choose modifiers or be certain what kind of rarity the item will be.
You may say the cost for an item is less Dilithium then for a reputation item, but that ignores that I may not even get the item that I want.
In the dilithium, fleet or rep stores, I choose what item I want. The choice is limited, of course, but I know this is exactly what I will get. I know it will be worth the Dilithium I spend for it.
I don't know that for an R&D item. It's in fact likely I will not get what I want, considering the amount of available modifiers in the first place.
You need to severely limit the amount of randomization if you want the system have a good chance of being used in the first place.
One option here:
Let us choose the modifiers we want as paramemters (like we can select the specific type of console and the Mark), but keep the quality random based on DOFF and skill level. If the highest rarity isn't reached, fill up the items modifiers from the list of selected ones.
For example:
Parameters for Beam Array:
o Energy Type
o Mark
o Primary Mod
o Secondary Mod
o Tertiary Mod
So if a player chooses to make a Phaser beam array Mark XI with Acc, CritH, Dmg a mods, if he gets a uncommon version, he gets an Phaser Beam Array XI [Acc], if he gets a rare result he gets a Phaser Beam Array XI [Acc] [CritH]and if he gets a very rare result he gets a Phaser Beam Array XI [Acc] [CritH] [DMG].
That is still less than optimal for the players, so I still think the dilithium cost need to be severely reduced, but at least you can be reasonably certain you get something along the lines you actually wanted, and something you can likely also sell on the exchange if it's not very rare.
Given that you've dropped Redshirt out there, S9.5's a late/end July launch, we're here with more than a week left in June, and things usually get locked in for the launch about a week or so before that drop...I'd say we're looking at some early/partial stuff here, right? Cause we've got close to a month of testing and there's no need for what's there to be tested for a month - nor for any of the "bugs" to take a month to tweak. There are some goofball things there that might take a couple weeks with everything else going on, but nothing for the time frame we're looking at, eh?
So, given that perhaps highly delusional and hopeful thought process, I'll try to offer some feedback based on what I've seen so far - compared to the old, compared to what I personally desire, maybe even questioning some of the other things I've read about, and well - yeah...this may or may not get long (I might go off for a smoke and forget where I was)...
First, some of the things that I felt were wrong with the old R&D (crafting) system:
1) The gear simply wasn't competitive for the most part with all the gear you were tossing at us from multiple sources. While some might take this as a prime example of how much powercreep has infested the game, this isn't a discussion about how much powercreep has infested the game, is it? If somebody wants to talk about how much powercreep has infested the game, there are plenty of threads out there discussing how much powercreep has infested the game and folks are always free to create additional threads about how much powercreep has infested the game.
Basically, the current (Holodeck) R&D system mainly lets you craft vendor trash with very few items that the folks would want (imho, of course - folks want what they want, and it's not my place to tell them what they want)...very few - tiny - itty bitty list.
For the most part, you can get better gear simply by doing almost anything but R&D. Even standing around a social zone, not really paying attention to what's going on because you're addicted to the forums and posting on your other monitor...some random player is more likely to give you something you need in some random generous moment than you are to get something from the R&D system.
2) Well, what about alts? Surely there is some decent gear there for an alt or a friend that's new to the game? You can blink and they will have outleveled whatever gear you crafted them. This isn't a discussion about how ridiculously fast leveling is though, is it? If somebody wants to talk about how ridiculously fast leveling is, there are a few threads out there discussing how ridiculously fast leveling is and folks are always free to create additional threads about how ridiculously fast leveling is.
Basically, outside of folks that put significant amount of effort into not leveling - you simply do not have much of a need for any of the gear outside of vendor trash. Mileage will obviously vary, but some folks are measuring in yards and some in inches if that.
3) The cost to craft the vendor trash, level up the ability to craft vendor trash...the cost - the cost is ludicrous. Outside of folks that were ordered to do community service and crafting at a loss was considered acceptable, c'mon - you've got the data on how many folks bothered with crafting. It would be one thing to craft vendor trash if it cost like vendor trash to do, but with the ludicrous costs...yeah...not happening.
Wait, VD, no side rant on Dil costs in general? Nope, not a complaint I have - I'm not a toddler that wants everything in a toy store, I'm an adult that realizes I have limited funds and sometimes I'll have to choose what I want and wait on other stuff.
4) In the time that it has taken me to reach this point in my post, some folks would have already maxed crafting on Holodeck. The system is just too fast. Now sure, the vast majority of things in STO are too fast; but this isn't a discussion about the vast majority of things in STO are too fast though, is it? If somebody wants to have a discussion about the vast majority of things in STO being too fast, I'm sure they could find a thread discussing that the vast majority of things in STO being too fast or they could create their own thread discussing that the vast majority of things in STO are too fast, couldn't they?
While not everybody's the same, some folks simply don't have any sense of accomplishment from completing something that gives no sense of accomplishment. While some are fine playing a game of peek-a-boo with short 'n quick giggles, some folks need to feel some form of effort resulted in some form of reward. Doesn't mean that each and every moment in the crafting system needs to be a struggle, but if it's just a mindless quick little grind - it's going to look like a mindless quick little system.
**********
Meh, that's enough about the old system, eh? Let's take a look at how the new system is or is not addressing any of the above, eh?
Okay then, let's start off with the competitive nature of the gear. The gear "can be" competitive - comparable - at it's reduced price...folks might go for that with alts, depending on what they want. Could be a niche thing, might work - might not.
BUT...it's not going to work the way it is. It's random. You might get a piece that you might have thought was worth the investment. You might. Odds are you're going to get vendor trash. Sure, sure...it didn't cost as much to make this vendor trash as it does in the current system, but you've still just made vendor trash all the same.
Right now, folks can get Very Rare Antiproton Beam Array Mk XI [Acc][CrtH][Dmg] from a mission. That's a guaranteed reward option. For many folks, that's going to be fine. They're just gearing an alt, probably throwing in the 2pc Obelisk as well. It's all free gear, just the time investment - no resources/currencies to get it.
So why are they going to spend resources on the chance to craft the same thing or something even worse?
If they could choose what they were getting, would be one thing. Perhaps they wanted a Mk XII of that AP Array, eh? Perhaps they wanted Mk XI AP DHCs that aren't offered? Perhaps they wanted different mods? Perhaps they wanted a different energy type? You know...if they could get what they wanted instead of what they could already get or end up with something they don't want...
...that would be an incentive to get into some R&D. As it stands though...er...folks might grind it out with the cheapest components to get the Traits and ignore the rest. Oh, they might also craft those very few items from the current system at the reduced cost.
Which kind of gets into the next two items from above, eh?
Removing the Dil cost from the Mk X and down crafting - nice move, imho. Sure, folks can outlevel stuff in a blink of an eye - but as folks are working their R&D and putting stuff out...it might actually sell at a reasonable price and create a pseudo viable market there, eh?
For the life of me, I just do not get all the complaints about the increased cost in Dil folks are talking about with the new system. Sure, there's the risk of not getting what you wanted - so one could take that angle and run with it; but the majority of the folks babbling on about increased costs...it's as if they never crafted anything. The Dil costs have been massively reduced for R&D. That in of itself, is pretty damn nifty as well...
...course, you go back to the random nature of it and the odds being that you get something you don't want - and...yeah, it's epic /facepalm time. Costs won't matter in the least if it's not something that somebody wants. The reduction in Dil costs was a huge move on Cryptic's part - awesome - great - super - all the positive superlatives you can shake a stick at...but it doesn't mean diddly squat with the very minor chance of actually getting anything you want.
Well, that leaves the time investment. Heh - 2,070,000 XP to get to level 20 in each profession. 14,490,000 XP to get all seven to level 20. That's kind of a case of going from one extreme to the other, eh? When you add in the various resources/components needed...and...you start doing the various calculations if you want the traits on multiple toons - etc, etc, etc.
Let me step aside here, I tend to argue in favor of things needing to take time. It's a MMO, it's not a weekend console game that you blow through. And it would be one thing if everything in the game was set on such a scale as far as time goes...would be pretty nifty, imho (company would go out of business cause everybody else would hate it but me)...but the rest of the game is for the most part blink and you're done. It stands out like a sore thumb in comparison. Perhaps some sort of compromise needs to be made there? Not dropping it down to the silly blink and done that it is currently, but scaled a little more toward how time flies in the current game - even if it is at the longer edge of that, eh?
**********
Okay, how about some other feedback, eh?
I like the component crafting angle. It simulates supply chain and will provide markets at multiple levels to stimulate the game's economy. I don't get the complaints about it - when it provides so many additional options by going that route. Oh well, this is a game where folks tend to hate on anything requiring thought or the least bit of something with the hint of effort...
It's missing the R&D part. Lolwut? Basically, it's not R&D - it's manufacturing. Guess that's a problem with the current system too...it's just manufacturing. It would be extremely nifty if it could be taken to the next level with some R&D. Mix up some of those components, add in some additional components, work in different species of DOFFs...basically, if there was a puzzle element above and beyond just the manufacturing process. I'm not talking about adding that into the current bit of where you want to build X - you should be able to build X. I'm talking about if you want to see what might happen in trying to build a better X and what that might get you.
Sure, at some point somebody will just collect all the data for all the variables and drop out guides on all the different things you can do to make the better than X gear...but it gives you a means to keep the crafting alive as the game progresses and new puzzles are added with various seasons, expansions, and even lock boxes (oh, the horror - why did you go there, VD?)...etc, etc, etc.
That would be an area to introduce some RNG - you'll always get your X, but if you do this - you might have a chance at the better X.
Couldn't one say that's how things are? Yeah, one could say it's 20k Dil for a Green Mk XII with a TRIBBLE mod...and that anything you got better than that was awesome! Yeah, no..that's garbage. I'm talking about the 20k Dil for a Purple Mk XII with the mods you want...where if you also do XYZ, you've got a chance at something magical happening. That's where you work the "lock box" play into it. I open Lock Boxes because they give me 4 Lobi. Sure, they might give me more and they may give me other stuff...but that's why I open them. I do Rep Hourlies because they reward more Dil than the straight conversion. I might get something else...but that's why I open them. So give folks their X...but give them the chance for something better, give them a reason to gamble. Don't make the simplest of things a gamble...
Each of the schools should have all the components needed. I mentioned it before, as have others, but I want to say it again. If I've got a bajillion XP in one school, that's going to affect my chances of making multiple components from resources. If I have to go to a school where I've got 5 XP to make the component, eventually that's going to get pretty old.
Actually, I noticed in the Shield school that when I reached a certain level - the component I'd been using was no longer available in that school. Not sure if it was a bug or intended...but it was annoying all the same.
If it's a case that you want us to level multiple schools to do certain things, then perhaps that needs to be laid out a little better and more consistently, eh?
Meh, there's more I'd say - but I need to go float around Risa, click some Fluidic Rep projects, and decide if I want to continue leveling the new toon I made...thinking that crafting might have been going a certain direction that it at this point obviously has not....
...oh wait, needed to bring up this point again. Unless you want folks to run macro programs to deal with converting thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon thousands of old materials to new materials; you may just want to do something about that single conversion mechanic.
If you insist on including DOffs in the new crafting system, use them instead of the catalysts - the better quality DOff you use, the greater the chance of an extra bonus to the crafted item (an extra [Mod], an increase in quality, an increase in Mark, or the chance to not actually have spent any resources in making it)
1) Make each mod require special material. If you want [Acc]x3 you need (3) of the resource that grants [Acc].
2) Use difficulty ratings to determine failure rate of applying each mod to the product. Say you have 40% chance of applying [Acc], and if you are going for [Acc]x3 that is 40% chance on each roll. So if you fail one of them you end up with [Acc]x2 instead of [Acc]x3. Higher base skill in a tree, should be used to boost minimum success rate, so if you are max you never get green quality.
3) Limit the availability of special materials. You can make these very rare reward drops from harvesting nodes, mission reward drops, intermediate craftables, etc. Eventually these could be incorporated into faction-based reputation systems too, things like Deferi sell some very rare materials to people with high reputation, etc. This also provides the base materials that are needed for a comprehensive end-game trading system, where people specialize in acquiring VR materials and selling them.
Otherwise, if you keep random mods you should stop calling it "crafting" overhaul because it isnt.
Please tell me this is going to be adjusted for those of us that have thousands and thousands of Mats.
1 at a time is insane!
Why can we not make multiples of what ever item with a slide bar ( if you have the materials of course ) or are your just trying to bore us all to death with the repetitive nature of doing this?
Converting the old items to new is also a click fest and very boring. Now i can understand you not wanting players to be able to power through any of these stages fast but i feel a lot may be put off with how boring and tedious this is to do.
Also changing the doff system is a step in the wrong direction imho. Also why show anything from higher school levels in the UI if we don't qualify for them dont show us them until we level enough for us to be able to use them.
For example - to make a Torpedo you need a "Focusing lens" - but there is none under the Projectiles sub-heading.
I had to find it under the "Beams" sub-heading
Oh, I really like that idea.
I think the biggest problem is the lack of ability to pick what mods we want on our weapons, and we have ways of doing that already (Reps and Fleet). The crafting system need that ability to be viable.
What's going to happen to schematics? You know, that thing we had to get before we could build the thing we were creating?
I've got a few lying around that I didn't use after the system started requiring unreplicated materials. For that matter, I've got an old Delta Flyer schematic I got stuck with when I couldn't complete the old Delta Flyer mission before they put it in the C-Store.
It would be lovely if some of those schematics got translated into materials or even R&D xp.
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Your end result is unknown.
Here's what I mean: If a craftsman sets out to make something, he has the end result in mind. He knows the details of what he is making and how it will turn out. However, with this new system, very little is known about what we will end up with. It's more like "experimenting" than "crafting".
I understand the needs of gameplay and your business model requiring time gating and some monetization, but in think that should come in the components, not the final product.
For instance, say I want to produce a Phaser beam array mk Xii [Acc]x2 [CrtH]
I should be able to create a Very Rare Phaser Beam Array Mk XII "frame" with three upgrade slots, and 2 [Acc] items and 1 [CrtH] items to slot in that frame as the final step in that process. Making the frame and items can each be individually difficult with random chances if success or results, but once I have collected those components I can create the device I need.
Other notes:
*the new Doff UI needs to display traits when selecting Doffs for non R&D missions
*R&D XP needs to be drastically increased. I think this is known, but I'll say it just in case.
I'm forced to agree with virtually all of the above. I am certainly willing to pay dilithium for crafted gear, but not for random crafted gear that has a high probability of being worthless.
When I set out to craft something in real life, let's say a nice meal, I have a lot of control over the results. I don't assemble my ingredients and then hope that I roll a critical hit on my ability to properly boil water for the pasta, and that I'll get fresh papardelle instead of expired gluten-free spaghetti. My ingredients, for the most part, determine the results.
I know what I'm trying to make. It may not turn out perfectly, but I'm not cooking to make a random, generic meal. I think that crafting should reflect a similar mentality. The system, as it stands, relies far too much on gambling and mass production, hoping you'll occasionally strike it rich with a purple accx3. That's what a loot table is for, in my opinion.
Combine that randomness with an impossibly cumbersome workflow in order to craft items, and you've got a system that I won't be spending any time with when it launches.
I'm not saying this just to burn the new system -- it's obvious you spent a lot of time on this. I'm saying this so that some of my thoughts might be of use to you as you re-evaluate.
My ability to get materials has been DRAMATICALLY decreased by the removal of cluster exploration. Objectively, I can understand that there was a need to reduce the availability to materials. But with material gathering options now limited to scoring well on dilithium mining and radiation scans, buying them from the exchange (at insanely inflated prices), or lucking out on repeating episodes, I've got the distinct feeling that many players won't find the system in its current form worth their time and effort.
If there's an incoming exploration revamp that will allow players more ways to obtain materials, that's all well and good. But if this exploration revamp isn't coming until Expansion 2 (making assumptions here), then the new crafting system will just about be dead on arrival.
Also, as others have noted, the random modifier aspect of the items we craft doesn't sit very well. Like the removal of star clusters, I recognize that it was a design decision intended to increase the length of player participation in the new system by not always giving them what they want or need. From the position of a player, however, I'd much rather have to craft additional items that can be applied to projects in order to give the resulting gear the modifiers I want. I'd even be alright with a chance for the modifiers to not take, forcing the object to be crafted again until the desired results are achieved. As it stands, there's no player agency. It's all random chance. And that will further discourage players from using the system.
That's it for now. I'm going to see if I can start scrounging up materials so that I can actually work with the system enough to come to an informed opinion.
EDIT: While typing this, the doff mission list for Delta Volanis updated, and now includes a few missions that should reward materials upon success. While still not ideal, IMO, I'm going to give them a shot and see what sort of mats I get, the quantity of said mats, and how long it takes for a cluster to give more mat missions.