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What is your beef with the Bortasqu' Cryptic?

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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Which kind of points directly at the problem-you can't succeed using a Battlecruiser approach with it, leading to a design that ends up being a gimpy Federation Starcruiser with extra power to weapons, instead of an 'ultimate Battlecruiser."

    If it was a free ship, this wouldn't be an issue, but it's NOT a free ship, you pay actual Money for underperformance with it, including key features that it doesn't have the ability to actually USE (Like being able to mount Dual cannons, and the big 'jackhammer' gun).

    The reason you see so few good bort pilots, is that the good pilots generally select a different ride.

    FYI for some it was free. I got the free oddy and free bortas back in the day.
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    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

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  • altechachanaltechachan Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    talonxv wrote: »
    FYI for some it was free. I got the free oddy and free bortas back in the day.

    I'm with Talonxv; back when the flagships came out you can get the Oddy and Bortas for free. Now you can get them again for pure Fleet Credits at a Fleet Starbase.

    During the last ship sale I finally bought the Bortas pack using the dilithium I collected. Flying her is definitely a challenge, even before using the disruptor cannon build that I have. I relish the challenge and difficulty, as well as one day making that ship perform beyond what others may say she can do.

    Yes, I also fly the Galaxy. Yes, I also have a Captain devoted solely to the Miranda. Someday I'll the same for the Aquarius.
    Member since November 2009... I think.
    (UFP) Ragnar
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    if you think the bortas if beef thread worthy, jump in the sci version with 8 arrays, activate SA and watch your target melt. fully stacked SA, that DPS cant be tanked without outside support. the galaxy R is the only ship beef thread worthy, it cant be minmaxed into anything like this can.

    thus it shouldn't be too surprising to see this thread go off topic. probably should be a dreadnaught cruiser though, in 2409 sto hangers are a common ship feature, it doesn't make much sense for a ship like the bortas not to have any. in the post patrol refit world, i say make its LT tac a LTC station, and the ody's LT sci an LTC station. and make them both dread cruisers with 1 hanger in exchange for 1 cruiser command

    Yes sensor analysis makes any ship do more damage, I do good with SA in the Sci Bort as well. That does not change the fact the console sets all suck and the tac and eng Borts are being left behind, and the shield mod and cloak are underpowered. It does not need a hangar, it needs the consoles, shields, and cloak fixed.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Which kind of points directly at the problem-you can't succeed using a Battlecruiser approach with it, leading to a design that ends up being a gimpy Federation Starcruiser with extra power to weapons, instead of an 'ultimate Battlecruiser."

    If it was a free ship, this wouldn't be an issue, but it's NOT a free ship, you pay actual Money for underperformance with it, including key features that it doesn't have the ability to actually USE (Like being able to mount Dual cannons, and the big 'jackhammer' gun).

    The reason you see so few good bort pilots, is that the good pilots generally select a different ride.

    yes you can :D

    4 DHC, 4 turrets

    TT1, CRF1
    EPtE1, AtB1, ET3, DEM3
    EPtS1, AtD1, RSP2

    TB1, ST2
    HE1


    solonae engine and deflector, fleet shield

    5 fleet turn consoles
    barrage console
    4 fleet tac consoles

    thats right, an actual use for the eng version! probobly beter off with sci still, can run leach in the 2nd sci console slot. ran pretty much the same on my fleet neghvar too. this hits a bit harder but dont got quite the turn of course. i killed a decent bug in a duel with this once

    marc8219 wrote: »
    Yes sensor analysis makes any ship do more damage, I do good with SA in the Sci Bort as well. That does not change the fact the console sets all suck and the tac and eng Borts are being left behind, and the shield mod and cloak are underpowered. It does not need a hangar, it needs the consoles, shields, and cloak fixed.

    you better off not equipping console sets, on anything with them, ever. only the free one has a bad cloak, and the shield mod isn't that bad, that's just spike soak. resistance and heals constantly filling it are what important, and it can carry plenty of those.
  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    How about this as a compromise - We follow the idea of adding a hangar, however..

    its an integrated hangar with the bort/oddy pet fused in place - but there is still three consoles to use, the 'pet' console now something like an upgrade console, upgrading the pets firepower, hp, shields, ect and other abilities (maybe also negating the need to get to a certain range so it can redock (let it use the subjump animation to reappear behind the ship (also giving it the superior ability to not die in warp breaches)) and impulse thrusters that can keep up with the mothership during full impulse)

    Heck..why not give it tac team so it can redistribute shields like a human player? and carrier commands? (return activating the 'return' subjump)

    This way there is still the cost of running a three console set , yet at the same time the bort/oddy have a degree more firepower to bring into combat as well as a pet worthy of being part of the flagship

    From there, the 2pc can be the usual upgraded turn and the 3pc bonus allowing pet access to the autocannon, ect (in the borts case)


    In and of themselves, the bort/oddy are great ships and I feel neither needs much buffing in terms of bridge positions (although a few degrees more turn would be nice), but where a major upgrade could be included is in that oft neglected pet duct taped to the rear of our ships - if that can become a damage dealer thats worthy of the concept, the bort/oddy would need little else in improvements
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    you better off not equipping console sets, on anything with them, ever. only the free one has a bad cloak, and the shield mod isn't that bad, that's just spike soak. resistance and heals constantly filling it are what important, and it can carry plenty of those.

    Exactly my point, I hardly use the consoles. They all need a buff and the set bonus does too. I am pretty sure all versions get the cloak penalty, it says the z-store versions get it too in their description, but I don't have a free bort to compare it too though.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I understand the Galaxy-Thread, but I really dont understand whats your beef with the bortas. Aside from the -granted- low turnrate, its a beast.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    woodwhity wrote: »
    I understand the Galaxy-Thread, but I really dont understand whats your beef with the bortas. Aside from the -granted- low turnrate, its a beast.

    A DHC-capable Battlecruiser needs good turn rate to actually make use of the narrow arc weapons.

    The Bortasqu' never was. You really have to go out of your way to do that.

    Frankly, the Bortasqu' IMO was supposed to be a Fed ship that was mislabled and given a Klingon ship skin. Because everything about it, except for being Dual Cannon capable, screams "Fed Cruiser."
    XzRTofz.gif
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  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    patrickngo wrote: »
    if you can't put steel on target, an you can't evade, you're just that-a target. The Bort is a fifty dollar ship you have to make a career out of to get any of the promises it makes out of it.

    even then, it falls short of less expensive options KDF side, and it's mediocre-at-best compared to Federation designs.

    It's kind of an all-hat-no-cattle option, that's a beast-as long as your target is stationary and doesn't shoot back much.

    using DHCs on any of the battlecruisers is lol. its always an uphill battle to make it work, and that's coming from DHC cruiser's biggest fan. thanks the AtD/AtB builds, the mine holding turn consoles, the epic EPtE buff, there really is no turn rate that makes using DHCs on any battle cruiser impossible though. even the bortas and d'deridex ive done just fine with. power sliding is your friend

    what maters is the sci bortas is the single target beam array damage king, 10 out of 10 times it will out last and out shoot a beam scimitar. between the 2, the bortas is the tortoise, and scimitar the hair. the longer the fight, the more assured the bortas victory is.
  • atlantraatlantra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    One of the worse 3 packs in the game if you're doing anything other than PVE. I mean OMG, the Bortasqu sucks just bad as the battle cruiser it's trying to look like. (RTS fans know what I'm talking about).

    Only reason I bought it was because it 'appears' to be a ship from another popular PC game. You didn't have to make it just as horrible. It's something about that hammer head design, no matter what space game-- the ship will be crappy! Lesson learned.

    Please buff the Bortasqu directly. I don't want a indirect buff AKA "all cruisers in the game will have this". No, a bortasqu buff only please. I already know you can't buff/give anything to KDF unless the feds get something. You guys scared of threads? LOL if the feds get mad let them, heck it's your game. Just help us out here Cryptic. You have my $50.
    The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    using DHCs on any of the battlecruisers is lol. its always an uphill battle to make it work, and that's coming from DHC cruiser's biggest fan. thanks the AtD/AtB builds, the mine holding turn consoles, the epic EPtE buff, there really is no turn rate that makes using DHCs on any battle cruiser impossible though. even the bortas and d'deridex ive done just fine with. power sliding is your friend

    what maters is the sci bortas is the single target beam array damage king, 10 out of 10 times it will out last and out shoot a beam scimitar. between the 2, the bortas is the tortoise, and scimitar the hair. the longer the fight, the more assured the bortas victory is.

    The sheer irony is that as far as PvP is concerned, the EptE buff hurt battlecruisers more than it helped them.
    Before Legacy of Romulus I actually had my Bortasqu working very nicely, being able to reliably take them on and keep my DHC's on target.
    After LoR on the other hand its a lost cause, any half competent escort pilot will just zip out of my firing arcs using EptE themselves and outmaneuver me every time, and theres not a thing one can do to keep up.
  • rakija879rakija879 Member Posts: 646 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    The sheer irony is that as far as PvP is concerned, the EptE buff hurt battlecruisers more than it helped them.
    Before Legacy of Romulus I actually had my Bortasqu working very nicely, being able to reliably take them on and keep my DHC's on target.
    After LoR on the other hand its a lost cause, any half competent escort pilot will just zip out of my firing arcs using EptE themselves and outmaneuver me every time, and theres not a thing one can do to keep up.

    Maybe your problem is that you don't close your eyes and feel the force when you start the attack run;).
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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    using DHCs on any of the battlecruisers is lol. its always an uphill battle to make it work, and that's coming from DHC cruiser's biggest fan. thanks the AtD/AtB builds, the mine holding turn consoles, the epic EPtE buff, there really is no turn rate that makes using DHCs on any battle cruiser impossible though. even the bortas and d'deridex ive done just fine with. power sliding is your friend

    what maters is the sci bortas is the single target beam array damage king, 10 out of 10 times it will out last and out shoot a beam scimitar. between the 2, the bortas is the tortoise, and scimitar the hair. the longer the fight, the more assured the bortas victory is.

    Any battlecruiser? My Mogh disagrees with that statement.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
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  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    patrickngo wrote: »
    there, you said exactly it-Beams.

    It works (barely) as a gimped Federation Beam-boat, the kind you slowly circle the map on FAW with.

    lol. gimped must mean most dangerous in whatever language you speak. and for a cannon build, i already posted it, and have made it work. it just happens to be the 1 battlecruiser that best to use with beam arrays, this is not a tragedy. what part of it has 8 weapons, 4 tac consoles and SA don't you understand? if you cant slaughter things with that combo your hopeless. buffing that would be madness, fully SA stacked not even the scimitar is as dangerous.

    if you want to fly it like a ktinga, to bad, you will just have to fly a ktinga instead. the problems you think it has cant be fixed, not without retconing how large it is. they are tied directly to how large it is.

    talonxv wrote: »
    Any battlecruiser? My Mogh disagrees with that statement.

    funny you mention the mogh, with how sub par itsmobility is thanks to its high inertia score, only the bortas is harder to use cannons with. the ktinga, vorcha and kamarang do it MUCH easier, but they hardly measure up to all the AtB capable escorts out there anymore. those are basically battlecruiser that have a COM tac and 5+ more base turn. that sort of power creep has left DHC battle cruisers pretty marginalized, only with 5 fore weapons is there still one in the running, and like i said, its the hardest to use.
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Got the Bortasqu' 3-pack while they had their ship sale going on -- I have to admit I'm very pleased with what the ship can do.

    Crushing the enemies of the empire with this monster is lots of fun. Kind of wish I had the disruptor autocannon on my D'Deridex.

    Not sure what people are complaining about, then again I rarely do. A poor craftsman blames his tools, and a poor artist blames his paintbrush.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • ddemlongddemlong Member Posts: 294
    edited June 2014
    I think the name of the Thread should be called " What is your beef with the KDF Cryptic?"

    ...but I agree with your points OP
    I use to do 100K DPS, but then I took an arrow to the knee.


    Your Ramming Speed III deals 242658 (243540) Kinetic Damage (Critical) to you.
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    Not sure what people are complaining about, then again I rarely do. A poor craftsman blames his tools, and a poor artist blames his paintbrush.

    Amen
    /10chars
  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    To be honest, a dhc bort with xi common gear has enough power to run in an ISE and not shame itself (and I've done that before for fun) - It'd be nice to have more turn and more power to wield; but its not vital for if it can blow up the opposition, its good

    ..admittedly if you pvp its likely the buffs truely are needed, but even so just treat it like fghting with an arm tied behind your back - if you can best an opponent, you have really bested them
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    lol. gimped must mean most dangerous in whatever language you speak. and for a cannon build, i already posted it, and have made it work. it just happens to be the 1 battlecruiser that best to use with beam arrays, this is not a tragedy. what part of it has 8 weapons, 4 tac consoles and SA don't you understand? if you cant slaughter things with that combo your hopeless. buffing that would be madness, fully SA stacked not even the scimitar is as dangerous.

    if you want to fly it like a ktinga, to bad, you will just have to fly a ktinga instead. the problems you think it has cant be fixed, not without retconing how large it is. they are tied directly to how large it is.




    funny you mention the mogh, with how sub par itsmobility is thanks to its high inertia score, only the bortas is harder to use cannons with. the ktinga, vorcha and kamarang do it MUCH easier, but they hardly measure up to all the AtB capable escorts out there anymore. those are basically battlecruiser that have a COM tac and 5+ more base turn. that sort of power creep has left DHC battle cruisers pretty marginalized, only with 5 fore weapons is there still one in the running, and like i said, its the hardest to use.

    Sub par mobility? Not that I have seen. Plus I don't run full DHCs on the front. I only run two. Other 3 slots 1 goes to a top, other two are single cannons so I have the 180 deg coverage and in the back 3 turrets.

    While I lose out on some DPS, the ability to cover a wider angle is better.
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  • kimmymkimmym Member Posts: 1,317 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Some people can fly big ships, others can't.

    Those who can rarely complain about the Bortasqu', as she is one of the best big girls out there.

    Those that don't wouldn't like her no matter what was done to her.
    I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
    kimmym_5664.jpg
    Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
  • zipagatzipagat Member Posts: 1,204 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    kimmym wrote: »
    Some people can fly big ships, others can't.

    Those who can rarely complain about the Bortasqu', as she is one of the best big girls out there.

    Those that don't wouldn't like her no matter what was done to her.

    its the inertia that is the killer for me, when you come out of full impulse you have to do it very short of where you actually want to end up otherwise you overshoot. It could do with a bit of toning down. I can handle the other big ships ok like the Vo'quv or the Odyssey, it is just a tad over the top for the Bortas.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    Got the Bortasqu' 3-pack while they had their ship sale going on -- I have to admit I'm very pleased with what the ship can do.

    Crushing the enemies of the empire with this monster is lots of fun. Kind of wish I had the disruptor autocannon on my D'Deridex.

    Not sure what people are complaining about, then again I rarely do. A poor craftsman blames his tools, and a poor artist blames his paintbrush.

    If you haven't, fly the Bortasqu' with the Sensor Analysis ability. Disruptor Autocannon + 1 of the other pack consoles. I set it up like a Fed Beamboat. I did this with one of my KDF TACs and was very pleased in the performance. The Sensor Analysis of course has tremendous uses on major targets for not only yourself but the whole team.

    A full stack of Sensor Analysis and properly buffed Disruptor Autocannon fire is amazing.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • sina1987sina1987 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    well most of my toons are klingon. not one of them worked as i planed. simply because not only the ships are not as good as two other factions, but also bridge officers are not that good either. romulans have superior operative + subrefugee. how many space trait an officer should have. and we all know how good is superior operative by itself. feds have leadership which also pretty good and it works better with their even better ships. but what KDF has? pirate=1.5% more damage or efficient which has no effect in combat. all efficient does it adds a littel power to my lowest power level that i don't need. like Aux in my tactical ship. with all of those good wapcores and engins that add power level to your ship. almost all power levels are above 75. why would you need efficient?
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    sina1987 wrote: »
    well most of my toons are klingon. not one of them worked as i planed. simply because not only the ships are not as good as two other factions, but also bridge officers are not that good either. romulans have superior operative + subrefugee. how many space trait an officer should have. and we all know how good is superior operative by itself. feds have leadership which also pretty good and it works better with their even better ships. but what KDF has? pirate=1.5% more damage or efficient which has no effect in combat. all efficient does it adds a littel power to my lowest power level that i don't need. like Aux in my tactical ship. with all of those good wapcores and engins that add power level to your ship. almost all power levels are above 75. why would you need efficient?

    More important would be to ask why you would need only a +7.5 Efficient. Stick with Pirate and some Embassy boffs... or maybe the Human you can get by capping your Marauding CXP.

    As far as the Bort... for me it's the maneuverability that makes me look at it and then look elsewhere; the diminished cloak isn't really a good selling point, either. Sure, I can play a big ship like that, and for awhile I did enjoy trucking about in a cruiser or carrier (before cruiser commands, cruisers they were slower then)... but I've really lost interest in taking forever to wander a map. Thus my preference for the other battlecruisers over the Bort/Fed cruisers.

    Mostly a matter of personal preference, though.
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    zipagat wrote: »
    its the inertia that is the killer for me, when you come out of full impulse you have to do it very short of where you actually want to end up otherwise you overshoot. It could do with a bit of toning down. I can handle the other big ships ok like the Vo'quv or the Odyssey, it is just a tad over the top for the Bortas.

    Make a full-stop or throttle down while in Full impulse mode and there wont be any problem. Full Impuls in STO is interestingly not a flight speed, but a flight modus, in which turnrate, flight speed and inertia are changed to escort-like-levels. So you need 2 sec with bortas for a full stop without drifting.
  • zipagatzipagat Member Posts: 1,204 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    woodwhity wrote: »
    Make a full-stop or throttle down while in Full impulse mode and there wont be any problem. Full Impuls in STO is interestingly not a flight speed, but a flight modus, in which turnrate, flight speed and inertia are changed to escort-like-levels. So you need 2 sec with bortas for a full stop without drifting.

    Im aware, its easier said than done though when i'm used to flying ships that don't have to do this. I will get used to it though.
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