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The Klingon warrior mentality: Not a bad or barbaric thing
mimey2
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Just kind of got to thinking about this, and honestly...the whole mentality of the Klingon people of being 'warriors' is not a bad or 'barbarous' thing. Not at all.
Yes yes, in Star Trek we mostly get the actual 'warrior' part, but that isn't really the fault of the Klingons themselves, mostly a writing issue. Even so, Klingons are not 'barbarians', which is a decidedly Roman concept that we've kept to this modern age and still use.
Really, having a warrior mentality for your way of thought means you simply look at whatever your actual profession is, as a battle that you should try and win.
A lawyer's battlefield is in the courtroom, with the lawyer being either on the defensive or offensive, and battling the other side to win a case. A farmer will fight the elements and seasons to make sure their crops can grow. Even a doctor can be a warrior so that he may fight to make sure his patient either lives on, or dies with honor (it's honestly Klingon stubbornness and pride that really prevents medical science from being more of a 'thing' for them).
Anyways, just kind of thought about that a bit, and wanted to put those thoughts out there, as I am also curious what you all think.
Yes yes, in Star Trek we mostly get the actual 'warrior' part, but that isn't really the fault of the Klingons themselves, mostly a writing issue. Even so, Klingons are not 'barbarians', which is a decidedly Roman concept that we've kept to this modern age and still use.
Really, having a warrior mentality for your way of thought means you simply look at whatever your actual profession is, as a battle that you should try and win.
A lawyer's battlefield is in the courtroom, with the lawyer being either on the defensive or offensive, and battling the other side to win a case. A farmer will fight the elements and seasons to make sure their crops can grow. Even a doctor can be a warrior so that he may fight to make sure his patient either lives on, or dies with honor (it's honestly Klingon stubbornness and pride that really prevents medical science from being more of a 'thing' for them).
Anyways, just kind of thought about that a bit, and wanted to put those thoughts out there, as I am also curious what you all think.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.pwlaughingtrendy wrote:I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
Post edited by mimey2 on
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This has nothing to do with been a warrior. Its about been civilized. Their whole behaviour pointed out as been barbarians. The way they talk, eat/drink or even dress. Look at the samurais. They also valued honor more then life and were great warriors, yet they were one of the most civilized ppl of their time. Cultivated, clean (they took several baths during a day) and well mannered. And the klingon honor was brought in only when to justifiy something in the show, other than that its kinda hypocritical. I mean, where is the honor in stealing and plundering. A samurai was never even thinking to go that low to the level of a common thierf...
Also in Star Trek both the Cardasians and the Breen were warriors too, but not barbarians in how they acted/ behaved.
As they were shown in the show, the klingons were more like the barbarian vikings. Even their rading "thing" suggests that, since the vikings were doing just that: pillige and plunder the neighbours and on the sea, in the same type of vessels (fast and light weight boats while the kdf had the BoPs, wich even they were later on compared with the WWII german U-boats, but for awhile they didnt had cloaks actually).
Pretty sure the Bajorans disagree...
Yeah look at the Kazon and see how well that worked out.:rolleyes:
Besides what is this claim the Klingons stole their tech based on?
They are welcome in Sto'vo'kor. Qapla!
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Before one can argue the barbarity of a people one should first define what it means to be a barbarian.
R.I.P
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Yup, Klingons are totally barbarians cuz they're so not Greeks it's not even funny.:D
It's funny how you've completely misinterpreted that saying to the point of giving it an entirely different meaning.
But I agree. I find Klingon Honour purely situational, since their morality is much more "grey" in general. They just live for glory when they can find it, and pillage/plunder whenever they feel like it.
How have I misinterpreted it? Would you care to enlighten me?
it does if you want to win. if you cant see that your blind. it possible the battle could just be ideas but it is still a battle of some sorts.
hell you cant even open a can without a battle against the container. to think otherwise is just na
Barbarians based on whose standards? As recently as the end of WW2 western peoples still thought of the Japanese people as barbarians, cleanliness has nothing to do with it. its all perceived values.
Just as you still consider some old Nordics kingdoms barbarians when they had elaborate trading network set up that even ventured inland and some of the best sea faring ships of their time. A truly uncivilized people do not develop technology, and would by default be incapable of organized trading network.
An uncivilized person may not even use words like been instead of being, a case could be made by some grammar police types that those of us who cant use spell check are uncivilized.
What you really need to do is realize its a fictional alien race based on a completely different moral code, and honor to them may or may not be the same as honor to you.
To think that no conquering army ever raided the enemy is again very na
See you are blind it is a battle against the can and your weapon was the can opener. EDIT: you just went for the nuclear option in that battle instead of proportional force, using only the bare minimum it required to defeat the can.
even your own argument on being passive is a battle. you are now in a battle of ideas. the second you responded to my post, trying to defend your ideas.
R.I.P
It is a battle to you because you perceive me as someone who is attacking you. Since I perceived an opportunity to an exchange of ideas and viewpoints, which is something I prefer, to me it is not. I am not determined to win. If you are, good for you!
Most people go about their entire lives without having to test their morality. And that's good.
Then why respond? if not in a attempt to justifiy yourself?
LOL morality is tested everyday. do you speed? cut place in line? lie even if its to save a persons feelings? wanted something but not had enough money and not stolen it? wanted something and and not had enough money and did steal it? all are battles with morality even if you don't see it as such.
the argument against war is a moral choice. just your moral values may differ from mine.
Lmao. Morality is an everyday battle.
R.I.P
Can you understand the difference between conversation and duel? I respond because I am talking to you. And obviously that I am transmiting my views. What I am not is trying to get to a point in which you say "ok, you're right, you won". That is not the goal
I read what you write, you read what I write. Our views don't need to change.
.
Those little things don't test your morality. At best they test what you generally convey as morality based on your place in society at the moment and your interaction with it. To fully know your moral stand you need to be tested in extreme situation in which the only decisor is precisely your morals.
Again, fortunately, most of us don't need to have those tests, so we can stick to the "easy to achieve" moral dillemas like "I'm driving under the speed limit because I'm a model citizen" or "I pay my taxes on time"
I'm not saying you don't have to make choices based on morals, because you do. What I am saying is that your true morality, you basic standing, if you like, is something we don't often need to put to the test. And that is good because it means we aren't being put in those situations, because they're usually bad ones.
It's like those people who think they will act in a given way in this or that situation. The only way you know you will act, is precisely by being put in the situation. What you think will happen is just that: what you think.
My character Tsin'xing
LOL to every bit of this.
Closing argument is: you are in a battle of ideas. sure it is not a hot war, but a cold war, but a battle all the same. your never going to see this for what it actually is. So the only way for me to win would be to kill you. im not going to do that, my morals wont let me. just as they are now telling me your ideas are beyond hope, and the reason we will always have problems in this world, people who want peace do not think they are actually fighting for it, and by not fighting for it you will never truly have it.
Everything that we have in this world today is due to a battle with and or against something. and as you seem to think winning the battle is needed for progress I give you a shining example of a battle lost that turned into a HUGE ( pun intended) Win. Viagra was a developed to battle blood pressure problems. unintended side effect was erections. blood pressure battle LOST. erectile dysfunction battle Huge victory.
I rest my case. and leave it to the jury to decide.
Yeah, according to Klingon Academy...which isn't canon.
Anything else?
I personally find the Klingons very barbaric and brutal. But others clearly don't.
Thats akin to saying modern man stole his technology from the Sumerians, and nothing modern man has created is truelly his own ideas.
The Hurg gave a boost to technological development but the early Klingons still had to learn it and use it. The Kazon seem to not learn but only emulate.
R.I.P
Without going into debate wheather the Hur'q thing is canon or soft canon, even if we take it as a reference point - the Klingons have been warp capable since the 16 century (might be blabering here a bit, speaking off the top of my head and too lazy to check:o, but I'm sure I'm pretty close anyway), so that gives them some odd 900 years until today's STO. Even if the Hur'q captured technology is what ignited and inspired them into forging a Star Empire, still it's pretty clear that Klingons were more than capable to learn, adapt, enhance and create new technologies by themselves during that time.
Now about the barbarian thing - barbarism is in the eye of the beholder. The penal system present in many countries in the world today would be considered utterly barbaric where I live. Heck, in some societies in the world today it's uncivilized if a girl wears a tank-top.
This especially comes into play when you talk about alien species. What is considered civilized for some could be completely barbaric to others. You could be eating lunch and have an alien throw up saying "look at that uncivilized brute, eating with a fork".
I don't understand the need to compare and rate alien fictional societies by the current morals and standards of our own species, especially when they still vary so much between Human societies on Earth.