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Phasers are absolutely terrible.
priestofsin420
Member Posts: 419
In my short time in this game, I've noticed that there is a hierarchy of damage types. To my understanding, it goes:
Antiproton
Romulan Plasma (a notable 'non gimmick' dual-type)
Disruptor
Plasma
<INSERT ALL OTHER GIMMICK DUAL-TYPES HERE>
Polaron
Phaser
Tetryon
Which makes me wonder, why are the Romulan and Klingon "signature" weapons up near the top of the list in their usefulness, but the Phaser, which, as far as canon is concerned, is an extremely deadly weapon type, is near the bottom? Indeed, the only time I use phasers is on my Chimera, and even then I'm using the Elite Fleet Phasers to get a semi-useful proc out of them, instead of the worthless phaser proc.
Let's go into why phasers are awful. Their base damage is in line with all other types, but their proc is garbage, making them fall very far down the usefulness chain. Their proc is garbage because:
It is a 2.5% chance to have a 25% chance to do something useful.
Phaser could be brought into line with the others by removing this hilariously useless proc, and putting something at least half-decent in it's place.
Here are my suggestions, with the assumption that the proc would be entirely gutted:
Give Phasers an innate [DMG] modifier, making them the highest base-damage weapons in the game.
OR
Give Phasers an innate [Acc] modifier, allowing players who stack phasers to get additional crit hit and crit chance through overflow.
OR
Give Phasers an innate [CritC] modifier, making them crit more often than other weapons.
OR
Give Phasers a "damage multiplier" ability, where every shot you land has a 2.5% chance to apply a damage multiplier, for 5%, with up to 5 stacks.
OR
Give Phasers an innate [ARC] modifier, making them the widest firing weapons in the game.
Those are my thoughts for now. I do not seek to make phasers OP, but rather to bring them in line with the other energy types.
Antiproton
Romulan Plasma (a notable 'non gimmick' dual-type)
Disruptor
Plasma
<INSERT ALL OTHER GIMMICK DUAL-TYPES HERE>
Polaron
Phaser
Tetryon
Which makes me wonder, why are the Romulan and Klingon "signature" weapons up near the top of the list in their usefulness, but the Phaser, which, as far as canon is concerned, is an extremely deadly weapon type, is near the bottom? Indeed, the only time I use phasers is on my Chimera, and even then I'm using the Elite Fleet Phasers to get a semi-useful proc out of them, instead of the worthless phaser proc.
Let's go into why phasers are awful. Their base damage is in line with all other types, but their proc is garbage, making them fall very far down the usefulness chain. Their proc is garbage because:
It is a 2.5% chance to have a 25% chance to do something useful.
Phaser could be brought into line with the others by removing this hilariously useless proc, and putting something at least half-decent in it's place.
Here are my suggestions, with the assumption that the proc would be entirely gutted:
Give Phasers an innate [DMG] modifier, making them the highest base-damage weapons in the game.
OR
Give Phasers an innate [Acc] modifier, allowing players who stack phasers to get additional crit hit and crit chance through overflow.
OR
Give Phasers an innate [CritC] modifier, making them crit more often than other weapons.
OR
Give Phasers a "damage multiplier" ability, where every shot you land has a 2.5% chance to apply a damage multiplier, for 5%, with up to 5 stacks.
OR
Give Phasers an innate [ARC] modifier, making them the widest firing weapons in the game.
Those are my thoughts for now. I do not seek to make phasers OP, but rather to bring them in line with the other energy types.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Post edited by priestofsin420 on
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Comments
Mine Trap Supporter
So far as I know, the canon strength of a phaser system is that it can be fine tooled to be very precise and you can calibrate its yield better than ....a disruptor, for example.
So its better for disabling enemy vehicles than just outright "boom".
However, the phaser proc seem to be liked in PVP, since it can disable shields. Though in PVE, if you use torpedoes, it got the trolly habit of dropping shields only for them to come up right as the torpedoes hit.
With lets say plasma, the attacks would have weathered down the shield, and the torpedo would have impacted the hull.
The underlying issue as I see it is that disabling subsystems on NPCs is useless aside from shield systems, therefore phasers suck. If that underlying issue was solved, then perhaps phasers would be a viable alternative without having to change their proc to something else? Sure it would take more effort from the dev team to make changes like that compared to simply beefing up phasers, but I think it would add more variety to combat. At least it would make it feel more Trek IMO. Targeting subsystems was always a thing in the series. It might also help out the subsystem boff skills that no one uses.
Mine Trap Supporter
We already have a rep trait that can do that.
Do they need to be changed in PVP? I've always heard that they're a solid choice over on that side of things. I don't play any PVP so I have no idea.
Mine Trap Supporter
In PvE the Phaser Proc just doesn't last long enough to be capitalized on. You get a couple seconds of shields down if the shields are affected. Unless you can react INSTANTLY and are on top of them for a torp strike... you just get a couple seconds of hitting bare hull with phasers. PvP, it depends on a person's build really. If they don't have much invested into Subsystem Repair... the Proc might last longer.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
your point being? since there is a limit to reputation traits these days?
also, what is the first thing they do in the show when they fire...or what is the first command? "disable their weapons!"
first, polaron drains ALL subsystems simultaniously by a base of 25 before drain resists and flow capasitators.
if that was the phaser proc i'd be happy beyond measurement...
second, your whole sentence makes ZERO sense...how does the polaron proc affect phasers??
Your statement is something like:"I just ate 2 chickens, why are you starving?"
you are the first person in 3 years that i play this game that is actually claiming to have benefit several times from a phaser proc. I hope you don't feel offended if i call BS on that.
usualy it is more like the shield facing is gone anyway at the time of the proc...which is already rarer than a ship in a lockbox that the proc is on shields.
So the claim of "several" seems kind of unbelivable to me.
and i didn't even mention the many counters to a subsystem offline...
and come to think of it...seems already that the most appreciated proc is the one that takes shields offline...ok, agreed. If it would only affect shields, phasers would actually really be great, almost OP.
Which is where it's somewhat problematic - Phasers, imho, define the extreme proc. Extremely awesome! Extremely /facepalm!
Always wondered why it wasn't replaced...though usually anything that seemed to fit ended up as a proc for some other weapon. Ever since the Borg, they've been multiphasic - oh, chance for piercing damage! Oops... And it goes etc, etc, etc from there.
Still, I kind of favor taking the angle of what one sees with the Elite Fleet Disruptors. You've got the Hull Disrupt and the Shield Disrupt. The hull damage resistance debuff is inherent to the Disrsuptor proc, why not make the shield damage reduction debuff inherent to Phasers? Then you could hit up the Elite Fleet Phasers so you've got...
Elite Fleet Disruptors: Disruptor Proc + Shield Disruptor Proc
Elite Fleet Phasers: Shield Disruptor Proc + Disruptor Proc
Nobody ever seems to like that though...
Well I hope you don't feel offended but you should read the forums and play the game more then, for PVPers phasers have always been great, and I am sure I am not the first person saying this.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
LOL, that would be balanced! Surely not something cryptic wants in STO. What would the romulans say?!
...srsly, i'd say that would be a fine proc.
though i still think an inherent "half" [ACC] would be cooler.
but basicaly anything than the random TRIBBLE that they got now...
For sure not the first, but only part of a select few, that is for sure...
The patch that introduced the immunity to the proc some time ago killed them even for PVP, you'd know that if you read the forums a little more.
I'm not going to say no to a potential Buff, I'd love a little more useful Proc'ing.
BUT i'm not going to say that phasers are worthless or anything, In fact thwy have served me well so far, Especially with the new Undine sets that offer bonus Phaser damage on top of my existing phaser boosting consoles
He is right Phaser have become useless in PvP, since the immunity the weapons of choice are either Anti-Protons, Disrupter, Science Console Buffed Plasma or Polaron weapons.
The only reason to use Phasers in PvP is because you like to fly your ships canon or because you have the Tempest with the new Nadion Bomb.
I.e. it would be 2.5% to proc on hit > On proc, x% chance to spread to another system > on spread, x% chance to spread again > on 2nd spread, x% chance to spread to another system.
This would simulate a "cascading systems failure/overload" that, while fixable could also be catastrophic and far more likely to be catastrophic on one of those uber lucky hits that would knock out 3 or 4 systems!
Tiny chance to knock out more than one or two systems, but I have a sneaky feeling this would be OP as well as being utter hell for the programmers!
Ok... so I mixed up the Polaron ground and space procs. Anyways... I was not saying Polaron affects Phaser, I was trying to say that, based on my mixup, having Phasers only affect the weapons subsystem would basically make it the same as Polaron weapons.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
To anyone saying that Phasers are fine, I feel that you are tying too much of your own ego into phasers. "I do fine with them!" isn't a valid argument. You could be under the impression that you are a glorious golden god of phaser death, somehow having all the right crits at all the right times, who disables shields 100% of the time, but it's all in your head. Phasers are underpowered, end of story. If you still feel that Phasers are incredible, I suggest you parse yourself with Phasers, and then parse yourself with Romulan Plasma. The difference in DPS is staggering, at least in the hands of a competent (see also: tryhard) player.
As an additional note: my thoughts and opinions are all based upon space combat, not ground. I don't care to test ground much, since my rep gear gets me through.
I see a lot of interesting ideas in this thread. The "proc on a proc" idea is interesting, where phasers would basically have a built in viral-matrix on them. It would be great in PvP, but in PvE it would be just as useless as the current phaser proc. I suggest we move away from the current subsystem damaging model entirely, since Polaron does a much better job of messing with subsystems anyway, especially when paired with a plasmonic leech.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
1. Look past the "immediate moar dakka to hull bar" effect that shields offline gives. Look at the utility of some of the other effects:
I have survived a round of the Tac Cube in ISE (back pre-reputation) because the cubes weapons went offline from a phaser proc just long enough for my heals to cycle.
I have smoked a couple of EPTE spheres before they ran to oblivion because I got an engine offline proc. And people forget that engines offline = zero speed = -15 defense = accuracy overflow = more crits = moar dakka...
2. However, the inherent defenses to this reduce the 10 second vs. NPCs to a barely noticable 1 or 2 seconds. If it runs at the full 10 seconds on most enemy targets, people would notice it more often and begin to realize the full utility of the proc...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]