Phasers are 1 poc every 15 sec... that you can remove.
Plasma DoT I can remove.
Disruptor debuff I can remove or overcome
AP I can buff to protect against
Tetryons are too easy to counter
Everything else is a debuff that is stuck on you.. you can not get it off.. That easy to maintain and reapply to a target.
No they are not stuck on you. They can be countered or removed.
oh and using shields to mitigate disruptors.. Elite Disruptors add 25% damage to shield.. so ya.. you look at it from a very bias perspective.
I was not talking about the other proc only found on elite disruptors but the standard disruptor proc. Stop blowing smoke to try and make your argument sound valid.
We are not just talking pvp.. In PvE they do not shut systems down for 5 sec.. your lucky to get 2 sec worth.. vs a gate or cube.. they get there systems back almost the instant you shut it down.
Go back several posts and see where I acknowledged the fact that they do seem to work against NPCs correctly and may need a fix in that aspect rather than just blowing smoke around as if you are the wizard of Oz trying to keep attention of the subject at hand.
Plasma DoT I can remove.
Disruptor debuff I can remove or overcome
AP I can buff to protect against
Tetryons are too easy to counter
No they are not stuck on you. They can be countered or removed.
I was not talking about the other proc only found on elite disruptors but the standard disruptor proc. Stop blowing smoke to try and make your argument sound valid.
Go back several posts and see where I acknowledged the fact that they do seem to work against NPCs correctly and may need a fix in that aspect rather than just blowing smoke around as if you are the wizard of Oz trying to keep attention of the subject at hand.
Wow.. just wow...
You can COUNTER subsystem shut down.. so why does it have a 10 sec immune.. you can counter it with many different system and skills....
You want fair.. then Disruptor procs after 10 secs the target should be 10 sec immune from disruptor procs... talk about blowing smoke...
Plasma proc is instantly reapplied, duration procs get reapplied over and over.. so once there on they do not come off.
Saying you can counter it by adding resists to your ship is NOT COUNTERING IT. Its adjusting for it.. the proc is still on you.. stripping a subsystem proc with emergency powers, battery's and points in to subsystem repair counters the timer duration is removing the effect and then its slapped with a 10 sec immune that NO other weapon has to deal with.
AS soon as you proc a sub system all your other phasers procs are doing jack.. for the next 10 sec after the proc.. while all other weapons you get keep reapplying there procs.
Your counter argument is so darn pathetic its almost not worth responding to.
the immunity is for situations like Mirror incursion where you have a swarm of NPCs firing at you.... In the old days, fighting Cardassians was a NIGHTMARE, simply because they'd be shutting your systems oft faster than you could fix them, well... when the AI was having a good day, not always.
But yeah, making that player-only would be potentially viable, but I don't know of any proc that works differently between palyers and NPCs like that.
You can COUNTER subsystem shut down.. so why does it have a 10 sec immune.. you can counter it with many different system and skills....
The imunnity was enacted ingame in july of 2012 to combat the fact that any phaser using entity, player or NPC, could effectively shut down a player by stacking so many system shutdowns that the duration never ended and the player in question was rendered dead in space.
During this time the skill subsystem repair did not function and the human Boffs had no trait that allowed for spontaneous repair.
You used an EPTx ability, or ST or a battery and that only worked for that one proc any further proc shut down your subsystem again rendering you powerless.
They gave Phaser the immunity so a player or NPC could not perma-shut down a player in combat.
You want fair.. then Disruptor procs after 10 secs the target should be 10 sec immune from disruptor procs... talk about blowing smoke...
Maybe it does need one. I never said it didn't or did. Though given that it only removes 10% of a players existing hull resists om each proc and many players have resist scores versus energy (often specifically disruptor) well in to the 60 and 70's on average the proc is removing 6.0 to 7.0 points at a time.
Resist Points that can easily be replaced and even improved upon during the procs duration by PH, HE, and even AtSif.
Plasma proc is instantly reapplied, duration procs get reapplied over and over.. so once there on they do not come off.
HE is the anti-plasma ability. Once used it removes Plasma burns DoT. States it clearly in the power description. Powers such as ET, PH, AtSif and other hull heals are a stop gap to counter the damage so it can be survived, if one does not carry a HE in ones build.
Saying you can counter it by adding resists to your ship is NOT COUNTERING IT. Its adjusting for it.. the proc is still on you.. stripping a subsystem proc with emergency powers, battery's and points in to subsystem repair counters the timer duration is removing the effect and then its slapped with a 10 sec immune that NO other weapon has to deal with.
Counter: 1.To move or act in opposition to; oppose.
So if I can survive a proc by using a power that boost my defenses or heals me as I am affected, then that is a counter to said proc.
Oh that's easy. That's left over from the season 1 changes to Viral Matrix.
Actually no. It was enacted due to the stacking of the subsystem shutdown by NPC and players alike in combat.
Happened in july of 2012.
VM was changed for a similar reason.
Here's how broken it is: Phaser proc is not increased by Subspace Decompiler, but is reduced by Subsystem Repair. Almost every other mechanic in the game favors aggressor so that they are not blocked out of doing damage.
Even with disruptors, TT will clear a few seconds of Dsiruptor Breach but will leave a minimum of 5 seconds of exposure due to overlap. NPCs dont use TT anyway, so its 100% uptime against them.
You want fair.. then Disruptor procs after 10 secs the target should be 10 sec immune from disruptor procs... talk about blowing smoke...
Already exists: During a disruptor proc, you cannot apply another disruptor proc to your target until the first one is removed. Of course, a disruptor proc just isn't on the same order of deadliness as a phaser proc: Having a disruptor proc, or even 4 disruptor procs on you, permanently, is an annoyance. It stings, but this doesn't kill you.
Having 4 phaser procs on you permanently = automatic death.
The catch is that phaser procs have no useful effect whatsoever against NPCs, which do not use any of their systems for anything.
Already exists: During a disruptor proc, you cannot apply another disruptor proc to your target until the first one is removed. Of course, a disruptor proc just isn't on the same order of deadliness as a phaser proc: Having a disruptor proc, or even 4 disruptor procs on you, permanently, is an annoyance. It stings, but this doesn't kill you.
Having 4 phaser procs on you permanently = automatic death.
The catch is that phaser procs have no useful effect whatsoever against NPCs, which do not use any of their systems for anything.
Man just.. don't
There is no "immunity" on disruptors.... immunity means no reproc during the duration of the immunity.. dur
NPC's do use there powers not sure who told you that.. they just regenerate there subsystem so fast that the proc becomes meaningless.
The issue of balance is that on one had.. only on the smallest aspect of the game the proc is deadly (pvp) on the other hand the same proc is near worthless in the largest part of the game for players (pve)
That is not balanced. So the weapon needs to be fixed.. or changed to a system that can work in both environments.
This is referring to players using phasers not npc's using phasers on players.. though even with the proc I have never died in pve to a phaser proc.
Here's how broken it is: Phaser proc is not increased by Subspace Decompiler, but is reduced by Subsystem Repair. Almost every other mechanic in the game favors aggressor so that they are not blocked out of doing damage.
Even with disruptors, TT will clear a few seconds of Dsiruptor Breach but will leave a minimum of 5 seconds of exposure due to overlap. NPCs dont use TT anyway, so its 100% uptime against them.
Phasers are broken.
If Subspace Decompiler do not buff Phasers then that may be a problem. I wonder why SsDc doesnt work with it?
TT, I forgot about that. THANks.
@Doffingcomrade, If a disruptor proc can not be re-applied to a target until the first proc expires, and a disruptor proc lasts for 10 se onds, then that sounds like immunity to me. Has this been tested?
If Subspace Decompiler do not buff Phasers then that may be a problem. I wonder why SsDc doesnt work with it?
TT, I forgot about that. THANks.
@Doffingcomrade, If a disruptor proc can not be re-applied to a target until the first proc expires, and a disruptor proc lasts for 10 se onds, then that sounds like immunity to me. Has this been tested?
The only disruptor that I know of that you can not chain proc as far as I know is Elachi weapons do to the shield by pass having a 10 sec cooldown on the shield by pass proc I'm not 100% sure if that was ever fixed...
Please tell me how that's a immunity... that makes no logical sense... Immunity means not being able to be effected by the proc.. If the proc is on you.. your not immune.. pretty simple logic.. if the proc falls off and can instantly be applied.. then your not immune.
The disruptor proc last 15 sec.. the shield proc on elite disruptors last 10 sec.
Are Fed's ever happy?! I need to have the best weapons in-game! WHAAAA! I need to have the best ships in game! WHAAAA! Give me a Fed "I WIN" button! WHAAAA! Phasers, especially fleet level aren't that bad. I also think Polaron's are way too far down on that list as well.
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Here's how broken it is: Phaser proc is not increased by Subspace Decompiler, but is reduced by Subsystem Repair. Almost every other mechanic in the game favors aggressor so that they are not blocked out of doing damage.
Even with disruptors, TT will clear a few seconds of Dsiruptor Breach but will leave a minimum of 5 seconds of exposure due to overlap. NPCs dont use TT anyway, so its 100% uptime against them.
Phasers are broken.
The system drop from a successful Phaser Proc I recall felt a lot longer in the early days of STO. PVE or PVP, you felt it, esp. when you were being constantly pelted by Phaser fire from any given direction and it hit something critical like Engines or worse, Shields. With Subsystem Repair being a bigger role in resisting similar effects like Power Insulators do with Drains, yes, it's a marked difference compared to today. So... if Subspace Decompiler can be used to increase the duration of a Phaser Proc, I'm all for it.
@Doffingcomrade, If a disruptor proc can not be re-applied to a target until the first proc expires, and a disruptor proc lasts for 10 se onds, then that sounds like immunity to me. Has this been tested?
Yes, you can never get more than one disruptor proc on a target. Once a target is hit with a disruptor proc from you, you can't stack any more disruptor proc on him.
The only disruptor that I know of that you can not chain proc as far as I know is Elachi weapons do to the shield by pass having a 10 sec cooldown on the shield by pass proc I'm not 100% sure if that was ever fixed...
This was removed awhile back: There is no longer a proc-rate limitation on Elachi procs, which is why the pricetag on them has skyrocketed.
Also keep in mind that some systems like engines can be assisted by some specific gear
Take for example, A player with the Hot start engines is going to be practically immune to any prolonged engine offline
A rare occurance, and a narrow one I'll grant you, but i don;t know any items that would give similar perks vs other procs besides armors, which of course is also phasers so
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Are Fed's ever happy?! I need to have the best weapons in-game! WHAAAA! I need to have the best ships in game! WHAAAA! Give me a Fed "I WIN" button! WHAAAA! Phasers, especially fleet level aren't that bad. I also think Polaron's are way too far down on that list as well.
Something that you need to realize is that a phaser is not just a federation weapon. Any class or faction can equip a phaser. However, nobody in their right mind would equip a phaser over a disruptor or a plasma array in Elite STFs. This is the problem. This is not a "fed vs klingon" thread, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't take it as such. Polarons are far down the list because of reasons already stated within the thread. Kindly read through the whole thing next time.
After doing some parses this evening, I can conclude that the Undine phasers are superior to even the Advanced Fleet Phasers, but are still inferior to Elite Fleet Disruptors and Romulan Plasma arrays, and very inferior to Antiproton. But, if a player is intent on using phasers, then Undine is the way to go.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
maybe it's just me but I think you worry far too much about procs. the most powerful weapons in game are AP because of the huge damage buff from the ori ship warp core and 360 turret set.
I thought the MK XII JH set gave polaron a buff as big, but it's not even close. I don't know how much Disruptor and Phasers are getting from the Undine sets, but the next rep is almost surely going to buff the snot out of tetryon. I would love damage output for tet just so I can use them on the Recluse.
Oh, OK. Another phaser hate thread. Phasers don't need a change. They're fine as is. They're all I ever use, on any ship. I just recently started collecting the new bio-molecular phasers so I can have a setup against the undine. They are far from worthless. If you shut down any subsystem, that's 5 seconds that your target can't use something or move. Idk about anyone else, but I get the shield proc 9 times out of 10, and I always get a thy in at the same time. Perhaps if players learned how to play, instead of crying about stuff being useless just because it doesn't work like everything else, the forum.s wouldn't be filled with stupid hate threads like these. There's no such thing as a useless weapon in this game. Most of you are just too closed minded to understand how to use them.
It does not really last 5 seconds for most targets.
If you knock down Aux in PvE you have accomplished nothing.
If you knock down Engines on stationary objects you have accomplished nothing.
Even worse against those structures that do not move or shoot the Phaser Proc does absolutely nothing of value.
Polarons are more effective with some added Drain at knocking down and keeping down ALL subsystems at once with no stupid lock out timer or randomness.
As to the bold part I must say: Perhaps if players would learn how to determine the effectiveness and damage output of weapons I would not have to see ignorance filled posts like this one on this forum.
I do not mean to be particularly abrasive but just because YOU like to use something and thus want to justify its use against all Data to the contrary does not make that thing factually worth using by comparison to other more effective things.
Polarons, painful if one doesnt have PI skilled. Otherwise easy to skill against and overcome in STOs current high power creating game of AtB, Leech, EpTx, etc..
Plasma, Dot can be deadly over time if one doesnt have the ability to heal or has HE handy to counter the plasma.
Disruptor, good hull resistance debuff to the hull of a target if that target (for some insane reason) doesnt have high resists to begin with against disruptors - the most widely used KDF energy type.
Or lacks any way to buff resists or the Doff to remove all debuffs entirely.
Antiproton, they hit hard. Thats it. Have ones resists and heals ready to bounce the attack and recover.
Phasers, they can shut down a system every 15 seconds for up to 5 seconds in best cases. A nightmare for anyone without Human boffs or Subsystem repair as the loss of engines, weapons, or Aux for 5 seconds is a death sentence. Though it is easily overcome by Boff traits, item buffs, Subsystem skilling, and Boff powers.
Tetryons, just too easy to counter.
So yeah, the Phaser subsystem proc is inline with all the others. It can be painful to the unprepared, and only a nuisance to the prepared player.
Just like all the others.
Even in this list you kind of defeat yourself honestly. Most of the types listed have basically one method of resisting them. Even then it usually only lessens their effect rather than negating it altogether. Then there are Phasers: Skill, BOFF, Engineering Team, Emergency Power to X, Batteries, and Warp Core Batteries either lessen the effect or outright negate it entirely. That is assuming the subsystem you knocked down was actually needed at that time in the first place which due to being random is far from a certainty.
maybe it's just me but I think you worry far too much about procs. the most powerful weapons in game are AP because of the huge damage buff from the ori ship warp core and 360 turret set.
I thought the MK XII JH set gave polaron a buff as big, but it's not even close. I don't know how much Disruptor and Phasers are getting from the Undine sets, but the next rep is almost surely going to buff the snot out of tetryon. I would love damage output for tet just so I can use them on the Recluse.
Romulan Plasma with Embassy Consoles can oustrip AP both with just how much damage modification you can stack onto it and because EVERYTHING takes advantage of a Disruptor proc.
I mean the difference we are looking at is ultimately a small one but it DOES make a difference. What we are mostly annoyed about is just how useless the Phaser Proc really is these days. Even if we flat-out ignore PvP and focus on PvE Phasers are pretty horrible. They do NOT give you 5 seconds of downtime with a number of PvE targets, they get locked out so you cannot see ANY benefit from them for 15 second periods (don't see that with the other types do you?) and most PvE targets could care less if you knock out their Aux and in several cases do not really care if you knock out ANY of their systems making Phasers just painfully worthless.
I mean even Polaron can suffer from NPC's that do not care about subsystems which is why I only bother using Polarized Disruptors or Protonic Polarons which both have other wortwhile procs included.
Polarons, painful if one doesnt have PI skilled. Otherwise easy to skill against and overcome in STOs current high power creating game of AtB, Leech, EpTx, etc..
Plasma, Dot can be deadly over time if one doesnt have the ability to heal or has HE handy to counter the plasma.
Disruptor, good hull resistance debuff to the hull of a target if that target (for some insane reason) doesnt have high resists to begin with against disruptors - the most widely used KDF energy type.
Or lacks any way to buff resists or the Doff to remove all debuffs entirely.
Antiproton, they hit hard. Thats it. Have ones resists and heals ready to bounce the attack and recover.
Phasers, they can shut down a system every 15 seconds for up to 5 seconds in best cases. A nightmare for anyone without Human boffs or Subsystem repair as the loss of engines, weapons, or Aux for 5 seconds is a death sentence. Though it is easily overcome by Boff traits, item buffs, Subsystem skilling, and Boff powers.
Tetryons, just too easy to counter.
The elite phaser proc wasnt part of the equation as its not the mainstay phaser proc or the phaser proc being complained about in the thread.
So yeah, the Phaser subsystem proc is inline with all the others. It can be painful to the unprepared, and only a nuisance to the prepared player.
Just like all the others.
I agree with this. Well stated, Roach!
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Hm, thinking about the active counters to phaser subsystem shutdown.
One problem with it right now, is that I can disable a subsystem, the target gets a 15 sec immunity to it to prevent further shutdowns, right?
If he counters it with whatever ability he retains the immunity and can go on unimpaired, right?
What if a counter ability wipes of the immunity as well?
If the target doesn't actively counter it he retains the immunity after the 5 sec disable, but when he counters it the immunity goes away, too, so the current disable is gone but the risk of being disabled again returns right away.
Hm, thinking about the active counters to phaser subsystem shutdown.
One problem with it right now, is that I can disable a subsystem, the target gets a 15 sec immunity to it to prevent further shutdowns, right?
If he counters it with whatever ability he retains the immunity and can go on unimpaired, right?
What if a counter ability wipes of the immunity as well?
If the target doesn't actively counter it he retains the immunity after the 5 sec disable, but when he counters it the immunity goes away, too, so the current disable is gone but the risk of being disabled again returns right away.
Would that work and be balanced?
Interesting idea but it may defeat the purpose of the immunity, which was to prevent Shutdown stacking that completely disabled players to the point of being perma-shutdown like a player used to be able to perma-drain a target with siphon builds until they where nerfed.
Hm, and if they do the exact opposite?
That the autoimmunity goes away completely and certain counter abilities make the target immune from further shutdowns?
Like engineering team and EPS and batteries?
While passive counters just reduce the disable time.
So popping a battery or run an engineering team would keep me save for, say 20 secs (maybe more up to 30 seconds of I have invested skill points in batteries for example).
perma disable would only be a problem in maps where you literally get spammed with phaser fire, right, like in the mirror invasion and premade phaser pvp team encounters?
So if I know I might encounter heavy phaser fire I can load up batteries and counter abilities and just deal with it.
For most encounters passive resists would probably be enough to survive the occasional disable. Should be a bit annoying, but still leaves that tiny window where my enemy can catch me with my pants/shields down and connect a torpedo to my hull or prevent my beam overload kill shot or keep me from running....
I use phasers for my Fed toon simply because it is the canon weapon of Starfleet. I only do PvE, however, I did accidentally go into Ker'rat once since I did not know any better when I started playing STO. Naturally, I got blown up... a few times, but after a while PvP'er stopped attacking me because I would simply fly towards the Borg structures and then sit there so I was visible to everyone. I then got up and decided to do some chores. If I noticed I was killed, then I would move my ship back to around the same position, then continue to do chores. After a while, no one bothered to destroy my ship.
Anywaste, prior to season 9 I did not really notice any effect phasers had on enemies. However, in season 9 on a few rare instances I noticed that my enemy's shields went down. But I didn't have much time to react since the shields went down only for around 2 or 3 seconds. I am usually monitoring my power levels and shields during combat and pop batteries once in a while. Even if I had the time to react it would not much meaning anyway since I set my torpedoes to auto fire.
I suppose the solution would be set torpedoes back to manual fire, but that just means I would not be firing torps most of the time; better to do a little damage than none at all. Since I tend to fight at a range of between 6km - 9km most of the time, even a well timed torp launch may not hit the target before shields are raised.
I suppose the solution would be set torpedoes back to manual fire, but that just means I would not be firing torps most of the time; better to do a little damage than none at all. Since I tend to fight at a range of between 6km - 9km most of the time, even a well timed torp launch may not hit the target before shields are raised.
Correct... Only the Hargh'peng would stand a chance of hitting in that short window if you are at 6KM. You should try to be closer though as both beams and cannons are not doing so hot at 6KM...
That aside though that is part of the fundamental problem... If it were 5 seconds that would not be all that long but you MIGHT be able to take advantage of that. However, in reality it is more like 2 seconds for a lot of NPC's and less for most players who have any sense. So you do not have time to really deal with it. Then you have to wait 15 seconds to roll the dice again and hope that you hit something important. Meantwhile OTHER phaser fire could proc as well and lock YOU out for another 15 seconds even if it hits something unimportant.
Lastly when it comes to players I have to bring in a strong reality check. What do you want to knock off the most? Shields and Engines right? What player in STO does not have at least Emergency Power to Shields I on their ship? I mean seriously who does not carry at least one copy of this skill? So your shield proc, if you magically get it when you want to, is pretty much worthless unless your opponent is asleep at the wheel. The Engine proc may work better but if they have Subsystem Repair Skill, a Human Boff, Emergency Power to Engines, and Engine Battery, an Engine Battery on their Warp/Singularity Core, or Engineering Team I then even this is going to be short lived or wasted as well. Please wait another 15 seconds to try again.
It is NOT in-line with every other proc by any means. Seriously, I love the joke made earlier... Imagine if your other procs worked this way? If they all had a 15 second global lockout so that anyone who nailed a proc would make it so that NO ONE else could nail one for 15 seconds. Now imagine if your disruptor resistance debuff would randomly effect hull, shields, or drain resistance. How about your Polaron Drain? Now it randomly selects from the 4 subsystems to drain instead of all of them but remember 15 second lockout.
I mean at this point the pony is a bloody pulp that needs to be buried so I guess I will do the honors.
The Fact of the Matter is this: The Phaser Proc is too random, adds no reliable increase in damage and in some cases no increase in damage whatsoever, does not last long enough, is too easily countered, and has a 15 second global immunity which exacerbates the issues previously mentioned.
Correct... Only the Hargh'peng would stand a chance of hitting in that short window if you are at 6KM. You should try to be closer though as both beams and cannons are not doing so hot at 6KM...
That aside though that is part of the fundamental problem... If it were 5 seconds that would not be all that long but you MIGHT be able to take advantage of that. However, in reality it is more like 2 seconds for a lot of NPC's and less for most players who have any sense. So you do not have time to really deal with it. Then you have to wait 15 seconds to roll the dice again and hope that you hit something important. Meantwhile OTHER phaser fire could proc as well and lock YOU out for another 15 seconds even if it hits something unimportant.
Lastly when it comes to players I have to bring in a strong reality check. What do you want to knock off the most? Shields and Engines right? What player in STO does not have at least Emergency Power to Shields I on their ship? I mean seriously who does not carry at least one copy of this skill? So your shield proc, if you magically get it when you want to, is pretty much worthless unless your opponent is asleep at the wheel. The Engine proc may work better but if they have Subsystem Repair Skill, a Human Boff, Emergency Power to Engines, and Engine Battery, an Engine Battery on their Warp/Singularity Core, or Engineering Team I then even this is going to be short lived or wasted as well. Please wait another 15 seconds to try again.
It is NOT in-line with every other proc by any means. Seriously, I love the joke made earlier... Imagine if your other procs worked this way? If they all had a 15 second global lockout so that anyone who nailed a proc would make it so that NO ONE else could nail one for 15 seconds. Now imagine if your disruptor resistance debuff would randomly effect hull, shields, or drain resistance. How about your Polaron Drain? Now it randomly selects from the 4 subsystems to drain instead of all of them but remember 15 second lockout.
I mean at this point the pony is a bloody pulp that needs to be buried so I guess I will do the honors.
The Fact of the Matter is this: The Phaser Proc is too random, adds no reliable increase in damage and in some cases no increase in damage whatsoever, does not last long enough, is too easily countered, and has a 15 second global immunity which exacerbates the issues previously mentioned.
Comments
R.I.P
Oh that's easy. That's left over from the season 1 changes to Viral Matrix.
But yeah, making that player-only would be potentially viable, but I don't know of any proc that works differently between palyers and NPCs like that.
My character Tsin'xing
R.I.P
Actually no. It was enacted due to the stacking of the subsystem shutdown by NPC and players alike in combat.
Happened in july of 2012.
VM was changed for a similar reason.
R.I.P
Even with disruptors, TT will clear a few seconds of Dsiruptor Breach but will leave a minimum of 5 seconds of exposure due to overlap. NPCs dont use TT anyway, so its 100% uptime against them.
Phasers are broken.
Having 4 phaser procs on you permanently = automatic death.
The catch is that phaser procs have no useful effect whatsoever against NPCs, which do not use any of their systems for anything.
lets have something dangerous as a colour, wait, maybe ... red.
Man just.. don't
There is no "immunity" on disruptors.... immunity means no reproc during the duration of the immunity.. dur
NPC's do use there powers not sure who told you that.. they just regenerate there subsystem so fast that the proc becomes meaningless.
The issue of balance is that on one had.. only on the smallest aspect of the game the proc is deadly (pvp) on the other hand the same proc is near worthless in the largest part of the game for players (pve)
That is not balanced. So the weapon needs to be fixed.. or changed to a system that can work in both environments.
This is referring to players using phasers not npc's using phasers on players.. though even with the proc I have never died in pve to a phaser proc.
If Subspace Decompiler do not buff Phasers then that may be a problem. I wonder why SsDc doesnt work with it?
TT, I forgot about that. THANks.
@Doffingcomrade, If a disruptor proc can not be re-applied to a target until the first proc expires, and a disruptor proc lasts for 10 se onds, then that sounds like immunity to me. Has this been tested?
R.I.P
The only disruptor that I know of that you can not chain proc as far as I know is Elachi weapons do to the shield by pass having a 10 sec cooldown on the shield by pass proc I'm not 100% sure if that was ever fixed...
Please tell me how that's a immunity... that makes no logical sense... Immunity means not being able to be effected by the proc.. If the proc is on you.. your not immune.. pretty simple logic.. if the proc falls off and can instantly be applied.. then your not immune.
The disruptor proc last 15 sec.. the shield proc on elite disruptors last 10 sec.
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It's delicious.
If only this was a Star Wars game :cool:
The system drop from a successful Phaser Proc I recall felt a lot longer in the early days of STO. PVE or PVP, you felt it, esp. when you were being constantly pelted by Phaser fire from any given direction and it hit something critical like Engines or worse, Shields. With Subsystem Repair being a bigger role in resisting similar effects like Power Insulators do with Drains, yes, it's a marked difference compared to today. So... if Subspace Decompiler can be used to increase the duration of a Phaser Proc, I'm all for it.
This was removed awhile back: There is no longer a proc-rate limitation on Elachi procs, which is why the pricetag on them has skyrocketed.
Take for example, A player with the Hot start engines is going to be practically immune to any prolonged engine offline
A rare occurance, and a narrow one I'll grant you, but i don;t know any items that would give similar perks vs other procs besides armors, which of course is also phasers so
The Federation uses phasers so it should be +10 all damage
Something that you need to realize is that a phaser is not just a federation weapon. Any class or faction can equip a phaser. However, nobody in their right mind would equip a phaser over a disruptor or a plasma array in Elite STFs. This is the problem. This is not a "fed vs klingon" thread, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't take it as such. Polarons are far down the list because of reasons already stated within the thread. Kindly read through the whole thing next time.
After doing some parses this evening, I can conclude that the Undine phasers are superior to even the Advanced Fleet Phasers, but are still inferior to Elite Fleet Disruptors and Romulan Plasma arrays, and very inferior to Antiproton. But, if a player is intent on using phasers, then Undine is the way to go.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
I thought the MK XII JH set gave polaron a buff as big, but it's not even close. I don't know how much Disruptor and Phasers are getting from the Undine sets, but the next rep is almost surely going to buff the snot out of tetryon. I would love damage output for tet just so I can use them on the Recluse.
It does not really last 5 seconds for most targets.
If you knock down Aux in PvE you have accomplished nothing.
If you knock down Engines on stationary objects you have accomplished nothing.
Even worse against those structures that do not move or shoot the Phaser Proc does absolutely nothing of value.
Polarons are more effective with some added Drain at knocking down and keeping down ALL subsystems at once with no stupid lock out timer or randomness.
As to the bold part I must say: Perhaps if players would learn how to determine the effectiveness and damage output of weapons I would not have to see ignorance filled posts like this one on this forum.
I do not mean to be particularly abrasive but just because YOU like to use something and thus want to justify its use against all Data to the contrary does not make that thing factually worth using by comparison to other more effective things.
Even in this list you kind of defeat yourself honestly. Most of the types listed have basically one method of resisting them. Even then it usually only lessens their effect rather than negating it altogether. Then there are Phasers: Skill, BOFF, Engineering Team, Emergency Power to X, Batteries, and Warp Core Batteries either lessen the effect or outright negate it entirely. That is assuming the subsystem you knocked down was actually needed at that time in the first place which due to being random is far from a certainty.
Romulan Plasma with Embassy Consoles can oustrip AP both with just how much damage modification you can stack onto it and because EVERYTHING takes advantage of a Disruptor proc.
I mean the difference we are looking at is ultimately a small one but it DOES make a difference. What we are mostly annoyed about is just how useless the Phaser Proc really is these days. Even if we flat-out ignore PvP and focus on PvE Phasers are pretty horrible. They do NOT give you 5 seconds of downtime with a number of PvE targets, they get locked out so you cannot see ANY benefit from them for 15 second periods (don't see that with the other types do you?) and most PvE targets could care less if you knock out their Aux and in several cases do not really care if you knock out ANY of their systems making Phasers just painfully worthless.
I mean even Polaron can suffer from NPC's that do not care about subsystems which is why I only bother using Polarized Disruptors or Protonic Polarons which both have other wortwhile procs included.
I agree with this. Well stated, Roach!
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One problem with it right now, is that I can disable a subsystem, the target gets a 15 sec immunity to it to prevent further shutdowns, right?
If he counters it with whatever ability he retains the immunity and can go on unimpaired, right?
What if a counter ability wipes of the immunity as well?
If the target doesn't actively counter it he retains the immunity after the 5 sec disable, but when he counters it the immunity goes away, too, so the current disable is gone but the risk of being disabled again returns right away.
Would that work and be balanced?
Interesting idea but it may defeat the purpose of the immunity, which was to prevent Shutdown stacking that completely disabled players to the point of being perma-shutdown like a player used to be able to perma-drain a target with siphon builds until they where nerfed.
R.I.P
That the autoimmunity goes away completely and certain counter abilities make the target immune from further shutdowns?
Like engineering team and EPS and batteries?
While passive counters just reduce the disable time.
So popping a battery or run an engineering team would keep me save for, say 20 secs (maybe more up to 30 seconds of I have invested skill points in batteries for example).
perma disable would only be a problem in maps where you literally get spammed with phaser fire, right, like in the mirror invasion and premade phaser pvp team encounters?
So if I know I might encounter heavy phaser fire I can load up batteries and counter abilities and just deal with it.
For most encounters passive resists would probably be enough to survive the occasional disable. Should be a bit annoying, but still leaves that tiny window where my enemy can catch me with my pants/shields down and connect a torpedo to my hull or prevent my beam overload kill shot or keep me from running....
Anywaste, prior to season 9 I did not really notice any effect phasers had on enemies. However, in season 9 on a few rare instances I noticed that my enemy's shields went down. But I didn't have much time to react since the shields went down only for around 2 or 3 seconds. I am usually monitoring my power levels and shields during combat and pop batteries once in a while. Even if I had the time to react it would not much meaning anyway since I set my torpedoes to auto fire.
I suppose the solution would be set torpedoes back to manual fire, but that just means I would not be firing torps most of the time; better to do a little damage than none at all. Since I tend to fight at a range of between 6km - 9km most of the time, even a well timed torp launch may not hit the target before shields are raised.
Correct... Only the Hargh'peng would stand a chance of hitting in that short window if you are at 6KM. You should try to be closer though as both beams and cannons are not doing so hot at 6KM...
That aside though that is part of the fundamental problem... If it were 5 seconds that would not be all that long but you MIGHT be able to take advantage of that. However, in reality it is more like 2 seconds for a lot of NPC's and less for most players who have any sense. So you do not have time to really deal with it. Then you have to wait 15 seconds to roll the dice again and hope that you hit something important. Meantwhile OTHER phaser fire could proc as well and lock YOU out for another 15 seconds even if it hits something unimportant.
Lastly when it comes to players I have to bring in a strong reality check. What do you want to knock off the most? Shields and Engines right? What player in STO does not have at least Emergency Power to Shields I on their ship? I mean seriously who does not carry at least one copy of this skill? So your shield proc, if you magically get it when you want to, is pretty much worthless unless your opponent is asleep at the wheel. The Engine proc may work better but if they have Subsystem Repair Skill, a Human Boff, Emergency Power to Engines, and Engine Battery, an Engine Battery on their Warp/Singularity Core, or Engineering Team I then even this is going to be short lived or wasted as well. Please wait another 15 seconds to try again.
It is NOT in-line with every other proc by any means. Seriously, I love the joke made earlier... Imagine if your other procs worked this way? If they all had a 15 second global lockout so that anyone who nailed a proc would make it so that NO ONE else could nail one for 15 seconds. Now imagine if your disruptor resistance debuff would randomly effect hull, shields, or drain resistance. How about your Polaron Drain? Now it randomly selects from the 4 subsystems to drain instead of all of them but remember 15 second lockout.
I mean at this point the pony is a bloody pulp that needs to be buried so I guess I will do the honors.
The Fact of the Matter is this: The Phaser Proc is too random, adds no reliable increase in damage and in some cases no increase in damage whatsoever, does not last long enough, is too easily countered, and has a 15 second global immunity which exacerbates the issues previously mentioned.
Well said.. this pretty much sums it up well.