get your EV suits and wing walk on a fighter as defense against cannon fire :P
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I would like to see a proper Fed carrier. If standard starfleet looks don't apply, I think an Andorian carrier with hangars of Kumari frigates would be nice, or perhaps a Tellarite or Vulcan carrier, espacially since the Tellarite aren't really represented much except as ground NPCs and Duty Officers.
I dunno. There are things you aren't taking into account, those being factors in the ST universe that would also affect fighter combat. Remember, we have things like transporters. Most pilots are probably beamed out before their fighters are destroyed.
Can not beam through shields.... so where are they being beamed to? Not back to the fully shielded carrier that's for sure...
piloted fighters in star trek really do not make sense.. they would be using drones and the carrier would be the command and control for them.... this makes more sense for the game any how.. the range limit of 15k would doesn't make sense for a piloted ship... The drones are to stupid to get way from a warp core breach while a piloted fighter would know to turn and run from it.
I dunno. There are things you aren't taking into account, those being factors in the ST universe that would also affect fighter combat. Remember, we have things like transporters. Most pilots are probably beamed out before their fighters are destroyed.
Where would they beam to? Just like replicators, transporters aren't magic devices. Every fighter had to stay within transporter range of a friendly vessel and considering that a fighter-carrier isn't supposed to stay with her "pets" all the time (because you wouldn't need a carrier to begin with if you did that) this mechanic does not convince me. Further, even if there were emergency transporters to save the pilots there would still be the problem that weapons have hundreds of thousand of kilometers range in Star Trek - the fighters would be vaporized long before they could go anywhere near their targets except for guerilla-ambush situations like shown in TNG: Preemptive Strike. I got the feeling that Maquis tactics are often seem as some kind of advanced warfare by many people in favour of fighters - it was a civilian resistance movement with makeshift weapons and refitted civilian shuttlecraft and attack fighters. This is no way shape or form "advanced" over anything.
Also, fighters have a niche. They're fast enough that they're hard to hit, computers or no computers. And they can be replicated (presumably), so they can swarm enemy ships in large numbers. As far as I can tell, they're basically a cheaper method of eliminating large ships.
You cannot replicate a shuttle. You can replicate parts but those need to be assembled in the "classic" way. You cannot push a button and replicate a ship. There are several on-screen references and the theory of (industrial)replicators is further explaine in the TNG Technical Manual.
On the other hand, I should note that Peregrine-class fighters weren't originally a Starfleet design. The Peregrine was built as a courier ship. The Maquis took captured vessels, tacked weapons onto them, and used them as fighters. When the Dominion War began, Starfleet decided to run with the idea.
Absolutely agree. The DS9 Technical Manual states that Starfleet used a lot of hastily scrambled refits for operation return. The attack fighters were refitted vessels following the Maquis approach, it was a desperate manneuvre, just like fusing old Constitution and Intrepid parts together and sending those ships, that often didn't even get a formal registration, off equipped with Type-8 phasers (state of the art technology during the conflict were at least type 10)
Nonetheless. I need to put this in my signature or something: STO's goal should not be to live up to Star Trek. It should be to surpass it. If you want to have STO be much like TNG because TNG was good, then so be it. But we should never limit ourselves. This isn't TNG. This is nearly a century afterward. It's set in the same universe, true. And we need to make sure it's consistent. But the devs should never cripple their efforts by making their goal to develop a game that's similar to a series of television shows that, frankly, were often mediocre. Even if they were teh most awesomest things ever, that's no excuse not to attempt to be even better.
Can't speak in favor or against this statement, it depends. But in any case, fighter-carriers are really no advancement, it's a huge step backwards in in-universe technology and in out-of-universe creativity, in my opinion.
Am I saying that carriers necessarily are part of making STO better than the rest of Trek? No. I like carriers, and I think they have a place in STO. But my point is broader than that.
Can not beam through shields.... so where are they being beamed to? Not back to the fully shielded carrier that's for sure...
piloted fighters in star trek really do not make sense.. they would be using drones and the carrier would be the command and control for them.... this makes more sense for the game any how.. the range limit of 15k would doesn't make sense for a piloted ship... The drones are to stupid to get way from a warp core breach while a piloted fighter would know to turn and run from it.
While I agree with you (see above), I think the "cannot transport through shields" is a void point since ven in the shows the writing considered it too hard to come up with plot progression if there were shields in the way, so they decided at one point somewhere in between that you just can beam through shields. I personally still consider shields a barrier because it makes more sense, but I think that is not an issue anymore in treknology.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'm not sure about a full Federation carrier. What I want more than anything, are carrier pets that don't go boom in a stiff breeze.
It seems like more and more in new content, everything and it's dog has some spammy attack. Be it the new Undine abilities, or BFAW all over the place, it almost feels like a waste to even launch my pets, because half the time they are destroyed moments after launch anyway.
Its driven me away from my Klink altogether, because I don't feel like retooling a character that's used nothing but carriers for years, and has made me stop using my Jemmy and cat carriers on fed side.
to be honest if starfleet has any resemblence of earths military they should already know how awsome carriers are in battle just look at the navy's carriers if anything we should already have had full carriers aside from the atrox.
You can't compare today's carriers and fighters with what we see in star trek. Aircraft may be able to threaten other ships in RL, but in star trek there's simply no way a fighter that small would even dent the shields, much less take down a starship of any decent class. I would imagine they'd be most useful for planetary invasion and hunting troop transports and freighters. As it stands now, carriers in sto are a non-threat to any half decent captain. Bfaw knocks fighters out in seconds, and the carrier itself doesn't have the firepower to fight on its own.
However, should this game go the way of carrier battles, I would propose a new mechanic. Every time a player launches fighters, they lose some of their crew, which does not recover for the remainder of the battle. No crew equals no fighter launch.
What about a Fluidic Space Submarine ship? It can go in and out of regular space, and no anticloaking tech will work on it because its not actually there!
It unleashes a beastly barrage upon entering regular space, more than a ship coming out of cloak, but its a glass ship. It cant hang long in a firefight.
DIVE DIVE DIVE!
Periscope Up!
TORPEDO IN THE WATER!
But seriously, a good looking Fed carrier I might actually buy. CBS is full of s--t. I can understand no to a T5 Connie, but whats wrong with giving a game universe you'll never acknowledge in canon a Fed carrier? Did someone forget to tell CBS man that Fed captains are commanding spider ships in this game?
If I was designing a Fed carrier, it would be 3 full ships in one! It would be long like a naval carrier. The front section came off to be a fully independent Escort ship with escort stats. The back could break off to be a light cruiser. The player could decide which part he wanted to break off and use, while the other 2 parts stayed connected and acted as a stationary turret. If the situation calls for the Escort, you separate that and use it. Need more survivability, but a little less maneuverability, break off the cruiser. Need to go beastmode, but move like a super whale, keep the carrier connected. Carrier shares all the same gear, no more than a regular carrier, but if you break off a section, the gear transfers to the escort section or cruiser, and the power, hull, and turn rates are modified based on which mode you are flying in. Since its 3 ships combining to make 1 super carrier, you'd need nearly three times the bridge officers to staff it. Its assumed your Captain or Admiral would beam to the active captains chair you were using, but a commander and supporting bridge crew would be different at all three bridges.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
With my Vo'quv, I stand-off at range, fiddle with pet commands, occasionally fire a BO (with penetration DOFFs) into the target, occasionally do a Grav Well or some other Sci ability, occasionally heal up my BoP pets.
The Atrox does that already (replacing Deltas & Runabouts for BoPs). I liked Halo, so I like the look of my Atrox. I think it looks better than the fugly Vo'quv, especially since there isn't enough spaces in the naming slot to call it "Emostar Crylactica" like I want to.
What about a Fluidic Space Submarine ship? It can go in and out of regular space, and no anticloaking tech will work on it because its not actually there!
There's a lockbox console that does that thing that the NPC Dromias Bio-Cruisers do (i.e. the jump into bio-space, fly somewhere random, jump back out again).
What about a Fluidic Space Submarine ship? It can go in and out of regular space, and no anticloaking tech will work on it because its not actually there!
It unleashes a beastly barrage upon entering regular space, more than a ship coming out of cloak, but its a glass ship. It cant hang long in a firefight.
DIVE DIVE DIVE!
Periscope Up!
TORPEDO IN THE WATER!
*alot of nope*
Fed players everyone! One part of the reason that "Red Rage" is a thing.
Feds own the KDF in escorts, cruisers, escort carriers, sci ships, and they have the only sci ship carrier in the whole game but they "need" so very very very very much their own carrier.
Every faction (not counting the Romulans) have strengths and weaknesses
Carriers are a KDF strength
Cruisers are a Fed strength
Raiders are a KDF strength
Sci ships are a Fed strength
etc etc
Can the KDF at least get an escort carrier before you all start trying to launching Defiants with battlecloaks out of your "USS xXKirkLoveGreenChicksYOLOXx" Supercarrier with 8 weapons and built in Aux2Batt :P
Fed players everyone! One part of the reason that "Red Rage" is a thing.
Feds own the KDF in escorts, cruisers, escort carriers, sci ships, and they have the only sci ship carrier in the whole game but they "need" so very very very very much their own carrier.
Every faction (not counting the Romulans) have strengths and weaknesses
Carriers are a KDF strength
Cruisers are a Fed strength
Raiders are a KDF strength
Sci ships are a Fed strength
etc etc
Can the KDF at least get an escort carrier before you all start trying to launching Defiants with battlecloaks out of your "USS xXKirkLoveGreenChicksYOLOXx" Supercarrier with 8 weapons and built in Aux2Batt :P
The Mogh equals or surpasses any Fed cruiser
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Make the Jupiter the Federation Carrier (Or Dreadnought Carrier or Battle Carrier) with Europa or Callisto or Ganymede class Frigates of a new design. Make it a Engineering Carrier akin to the Obelisk, but change up the BOff seating and console layout slightly.
Then, you know, give the KDF Fed-style Cruisers and Sci Vessels that they'll never use so they can find something else to complain about.
17 pages later and this TRIBBLE is still rolling along. My god again I must ask, why does the Federation NEED a full carrier w/frigates?
My hunch is, many have done their grind w/1 character and do not want to do it all over again with another character let alone another faction. So ofcourse they want all the toys on 1 faction so they can do it all and have everything and not have to switch characters and get out of their comfort zone.
Grow up guys. The federation DOES NOT need a carrier with frigates. Hell never of should of gotten the Atrox IMHO. Hell the following ships shouldn't of gotten flight decks:
Scimitar, Gal-X, Vesta. And I also agree that there should be a klingon raptor carrier. And to further more, the Ak'rif and Armitage should get drones, not even get shuttles since ships like that couldn't carry that many shuttles to spam them.
But that's just me.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I'm not sure about a full Federation carrier. What I want more than anything, are carrier pets that don't go boom in a stiff breeze.
It seems like more and more in new content, everything and it's dog has some spammy attack. Be it the new Undine abilities, or BFAW all over the place, it almost feels like a waste to even launch my pets, because half the time they are destroyed moments after launch anyway.
Its driven me away from my Klink altogether, because I don't feel like retooling a character that's used nothing but carriers for years, and has made me stop using my Jemmy and cat carriers on fed side.
You need to use Runabouts at the minimum, and frigates at best.
In fact, that's one of the reason why Fed want frigate: something that does not blow up that easily.
Comments
Klingons are Jedi :P
R.I.P
Mine is a Sith, it's red:D
And I've got my lightlirpa- but there's still not a sabre in sight.
I dunno, the Tholian Crystal Sword/Nukara Shattering Harmonics Sword looks an awful lot like one when it's absorbed energy.
Even the hilt looks like one.
Granted, I love it, but it's hard to deny it looks like one.
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Can not beam through shields.... so where are they being beamed to? Not back to the fully shielded carrier that's for sure...
piloted fighters in star trek really do not make sense.. they would be using drones and the carrier would be the command and control for them.... this makes more sense for the game any how.. the range limit of 15k would doesn't make sense for a piloted ship... The drones are to stupid to get way from a warp core breach while a piloted fighter would know to turn and run from it.
Where would they beam to? Just like replicators, transporters aren't magic devices. Every fighter had to stay within transporter range of a friendly vessel and considering that a fighter-carrier isn't supposed to stay with her "pets" all the time (because you wouldn't need a carrier to begin with if you did that) this mechanic does not convince me. Further, even if there were emergency transporters to save the pilots there would still be the problem that weapons have hundreds of thousand of kilometers range in Star Trek - the fighters would be vaporized long before they could go anywhere near their targets except for guerilla-ambush situations like shown in TNG: Preemptive Strike. I got the feeling that Maquis tactics are often seem as some kind of advanced warfare by many people in favour of fighters - it was a civilian resistance movement with makeshift weapons and refitted civilian shuttlecraft and attack fighters. This is no way shape or form "advanced" over anything.
You cannot replicate a shuttle. You can replicate parts but those need to be assembled in the "classic" way. You cannot push a button and replicate a ship. There are several on-screen references and the theory of (industrial)replicators is further explaine in the TNG Technical Manual.
Absolutely agree. The DS9 Technical Manual states that Starfleet used a lot of hastily scrambled refits for operation return. The attack fighters were refitted vessels following the Maquis approach, it was a desperate manneuvre, just like fusing old Constitution and Intrepid parts together and sending those ships, that often didn't even get a formal registration, off equipped with Type-8 phasers (state of the art technology during the conflict were at least type 10)
Can't speak in favor or against this statement, it depends. But in any case, fighter-carriers are really no advancement, it's a huge step backwards in in-universe technology and in out-of-universe creativity, in my opinion.
See above
While I agree with you (see above), I think the "cannot transport through shields" is a void point since ven in the shows the writing considered it too hard to come up with plot progression if there were shields in the way, so they decided at one point somewhere in between that you just can beam through shields. I personally still consider shields a barrier because it makes more sense, but I think that is not an issue anymore in treknology.
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It seems like more and more in new content, everything and it's dog has some spammy attack. Be it the new Undine abilities, or BFAW all over the place, it almost feels like a waste to even launch my pets, because half the time they are destroyed moments after launch anyway.
Its driven me away from my Klink altogether, because I don't feel like retooling a character that's used nothing but carriers for years, and has made me stop using my Jemmy and cat carriers on fed side.
You can't compare today's carriers and fighters with what we see in star trek. Aircraft may be able to threaten other ships in RL, but in star trek there's simply no way a fighter that small would even dent the shields, much less take down a starship of any decent class. I would imagine they'd be most useful for planetary invasion and hunting troop transports and freighters. As it stands now, carriers in sto are a non-threat to any half decent captain. Bfaw knocks fighters out in seconds, and the carrier itself doesn't have the firepower to fight on its own.
However, should this game go the way of carrier battles, I would propose a new mechanic. Every time a player launches fighters, they lose some of their crew, which does not recover for the remainder of the battle. No crew equals no fighter launch.
It unleashes a beastly barrage upon entering regular space, more than a ship coming out of cloak, but its a glass ship. It cant hang long in a firefight.
DIVE DIVE DIVE!
Periscope Up!
TORPEDO IN THE WATER!
But seriously, a good looking Fed carrier I might actually buy. CBS is full of s--t. I can understand no to a T5 Connie, but whats wrong with giving a game universe you'll never acknowledge in canon a Fed carrier? Did someone forget to tell CBS man that Fed captains are commanding spider ships in this game?
If I was designing a Fed carrier, it would be 3 full ships in one! It would be long like a naval carrier. The front section came off to be a fully independent Escort ship with escort stats. The back could break off to be a light cruiser. The player could decide which part he wanted to break off and use, while the other 2 parts stayed connected and acted as a stationary turret. If the situation calls for the Escort, you separate that and use it. Need more survivability, but a little less maneuverability, break off the cruiser. Need to go beastmode, but move like a super whale, keep the carrier connected. Carrier shares all the same gear, no more than a regular carrier, but if you break off a section, the gear transfers to the escort section or cruiser, and the power, hull, and turn rates are modified based on which mode you are flying in. Since its 3 ships combining to make 1 super carrier, you'd need nearly three times the bridge officers to staff it. Its assumed your Captain or Admiral would beam to the active captains chair you were using, but a commander and supporting bridge crew would be different at all three bridges.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
The Atrox does that already (replacing Deltas & Runabouts for BoPs). I liked Halo, so I like the look of my Atrox. I think it looks better than the fugly Vo'quv, especially since there isn't enough spaces in the naming slot to call it "Emostar Crylactica" like I want to.
There's a lockbox console that does that thing that the NPC Dromias Bio-Cruisers do (i.e. the jump into bio-space, fly somewhere random, jump back out again).
There. Fed cloak in a box.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Fed players everyone! One part of the reason that "Red Rage" is a thing.
Feds own the KDF in escorts, cruisers, escort carriers, sci ships, and they have the only sci ship carrier in the whole game but they "need" so very very very very much their own carrier.
Every faction (not counting the Romulans) have strengths and weaknesses
Carriers are a KDF strength
Cruisers are a Fed strength
Raiders are a KDF strength
Sci ships are a Fed strength
etc etc
Can the KDF at least get an escort carrier before you all start trying to launching Defiants with battlecloaks out of your "USS xXKirkLoveGreenChicksYOLOXx" Supercarrier with 8 weapons and built in Aux2Batt :P
The Mogh equals or surpasses any Fed cruiser
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Then, you know, give the KDF Fed-style Cruisers and Sci Vessels that they'll never use so they can find something else to complain about.
The Mogh is a battlecruiser, one of the KDF's strengths. (Also there is the whole Into Darkness Revenager deal but I won't go into that)
My hunch is, many have done their grind w/1 character and do not want to do it all over again with another character let alone another faction. So ofcourse they want all the toys on 1 faction so they can do it all and have everything and not have to switch characters and get out of their comfort zone.
Grow up guys. The federation DOES NOT need a carrier with frigates. Hell never of should of gotten the Atrox IMHO. Hell the following ships shouldn't of gotten flight decks:
Scimitar, Gal-X, Vesta. And I also agree that there should be a klingon raptor carrier. And to further more, the Ak'rif and Armitage should get drones, not even get shuttles since ships like that couldn't carry that many shuttles to spam them.
But that's just me.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
You need to use Runabouts at the minimum, and frigates at best.
In fact, that's one of the reason why Fed want frigate: something that does not blow up that easily.