VII Seasons of TNG + movie, and even the tech manuals as well if you want. Never did the Galaxy Class fill the role of a carrier, nor did any other Federation ship for that matter. The shuttlebays and shuttles filled different roles there.
Just because I could park my car in my house, doesn't mean I will park my car inside my house.
Neither did the Klingons use carriers either, so by that Logic there shouldn't be any Klingon carriers either
If you can think of a reasonable explanation to why a ship like the constellation would need to deovote around a third of its hull space to seven hangers....but IMO I think it's pretty obvious that many of the federation 'flagships' have some capactiy to operate as carriers at least-and we do see the Federation much more willing to throw shuttles and fighters into the fray in later trek. My guess is it's just policy not to use shuttles in combat situations unless the situation warrents it, considering how readily they get blown up-Starfleet would probably consider it a senseless waste of life in most situations. That attitude seems to have changed later around the time of the Dominion war, I think.
If you can think of a reasonable explanation to why a ship like the constellation would need to deovote around a third of its hull space to seven hangers
Seven? Can you link to the info of that? Surfing through Memory Alpha AND Beta shows only two shuttlebays. There's not even a mention of it on Ex-Astris.
Neither did the Klingons use carriers either, so by that Logic there shouldn't be any Klingon carriers either
If you can think of a reasonable explanation to why a ship like the constellation would need to deovote around a third of its hull space to seven hangers....but IMO I think it's pretty obvious that many of the federation 'flagships' have some capactiy to operate as carriers at least-and we do see the Federation much more willing to throw shuttles and fighters into the fray in later trek. My guess is it's just policy not to use shuttles in combat situations unless the situation warrents it, considering how readily they get blown up-Starfleet would probably consider it a senseless waste of life in most situations. That attitude seems to have changed later around the time of the Dominion war, I think.
I never said there should be Klingon carriers.
What I'm saying is the following - if you're using the large size of the Galaxy or the Constellation based on canon to justify slapping a hangar on every second ship in STO, I'm going to use the even more evident canon where no Starfleet ship ever launched fighters in combat and needed to lower the shields in order for a shuttle to depart to showcase that none of those ships should be carriers. It's as simple as that.
Neither did the Klingons use carriers either, so by that Logic there shouldn't be any Klingon carriers either
If you can think of a reasonable explanation to why a ship like the constellation would need to deovote around a third of its hull space to seven hangers....but IMO I think it's pretty obvious that many of the federation 'flagships' have some capactiy to operate as carriers at least-and we do see the Federation much more willing to throw shuttles and fighters into the fray in later trek. My guess is it's just policy not to use shuttles in combat situations unless the situation warrents it, considering how readily they get blown up-Starfleet would probably consider it a senseless waste of life in most situations. That attitude seems to have changed later around the time of the Dominion war, I think.
That's right...you read it here! He is saying only the Scimitar should have a hangar!
Seven? Can you link to the info of that? Surfing through Memory Alpha AND Beta shows only two shuttlebays. There's not even a mention of it on Ex-Astris.
I'd love to read about this claim.
I think it's more looking than reading about this claim. Just surf Google Images for Constellation class ship images. There's plenty of evidence of multiple shuttlebays, or at least hangar door openings for shuttlebays.
Then again, many of the images were created by fans...
If we went with absolute canon, the only ships with combat small craft would be the Akira and Scimitar. :rolleyes:
Not even the Akira if we go by absolute canon as you say, since the Akira was never shown to carry and launch craft on screen. If you want to go by absolute canon, then it's only the Scimitar and the Kazon ship. (unless I'm forgetting some minor one time spinoff species that used them)
No Fed carriers may be a game-ism, but there is no logical reason Feds would not have effective carriers for tactical needs. Also a good carrier can support exploration since it should also be carrying a large contingent of long-range runabouts. A carrier with peregrines and runabouts/delta flyers would be a nice add to Fed Fleet.
Seven? Can you link to the info of that? Surfing through Memory Alpha AND Beta shows only two shuttlebays. There's not even a mention of it on Ex-Astris.
"Constellation-class starships had seven shuttlebays. At the front of the ship, there was shuttlebay 1. Along the starboard, there were shuttlebays 2, 3, and 4. Along the port, there were shuttlebays 5, 6, and 7"
Google some pictures of the Constellation class and you'll see the model has one main shuttlebay on the front, and three on each side.
What I'm saying is the following - if you're using the large size of the Galaxy or the Constellation based on canon to justify slapping a hangar on every second ship in STO, I'm going to use the even more evident canon where no Starfleet ship ever launched fighters in combat and needed to lower the shields in order for a shuttle to depart to showcase that none of those ships should be carriers. It's as simple as that.
Not using just their large size (and the constellation isn't exactly large) The Constellation has seven hangers/shuttlebays-that's a lot of internal space devoted to shuttles, esp for such a small craft. It wouldn't be a stretch at all for it to be a ship like the Akira.
The Galaxy has a cavernous main hanger large enough to hold several runabouts. Outside of the scimitar it's probably the trek ship with the most space devoted to hangers.
I don't specifically recall anywhere in Trek where it is stated that shields have to be dropped to launch shuttles, or that shuttles can't be launched in combat, but shuttles are repeatedly used in combat throughout trek, particularly in DS9, but also in TNG and VOY, so there's definitely a precedent for that. Many fed ships certainly have the capability to act as at least flight-decks, since deploying six shuttles at a time isn't something that a galaxy or Constellation is incapable of. Whether or not 'carriers' should be forced to drop shields to deploy shuttles or not is an argument for another time-I think that would make for an interesting mechanic, myself.
It may be interesting to see the player base reaction when the Constellation-class ship is finally released into STO... and the debate about being a cruiser or carrier begins.
Why would you use the Litter Box or even the Obelisk when you can use the JHDC or the Tholian? The JHDC and Tholian are waaaaaay better in terms of firepower and can equip the top 2 pets in game.
Agreed,
The JHDC and Recluse are hands down the top 2 Carriers in this game; however, my Fleet Vo'Quv still holds the top spot in my heart
I think many Fed heavy players already know that the above carriers are the best but are hoping that any new Fed carrier that cryptic might role out would be better than them.
I do not feel that the Feds need more two hangar carriers but I do feel that they need their own Frigate Class Hangar support.
I always felt that the Aquarius Model should have also been used has Frigates for the Feds.
I think it's more looking than reading about this claim. Just surf Google Images for Constellation class ship images. There's plenty of evidence of multiple shuttlebays, or at least hangar door openings for shuttlebays.
Then again, many of the images were created by fans...
Yeah, I saw those while I surfed when replying to it, I was just hoping for something beyond fan pictures. I mean, the Enterprise D has three Shuttlebays and fivehangars.
You know how tired I am of going over this in some form?
I know some people dont like carriers in Trek but fact is they exist, they had since DS9 episode "Sacrifice of Angels" becase we had fighters there and no justification can ever erase what we seen on screen.
I find it odd that you seem to be lumping me in with people who don't like the idea of carriers because I asked for clarification on something.
Okay, for the record on all those people stating that the federation needs a frigate pet and suggesting Mirandas, Aquarius and Defiants. Keep in mind that the Klingons can launch bird-of-preys from the Vo'quv only because the ship is huge. They can also only launch them one at a time from each hangar on that ship, so they can hold a maximum of 2 deployed ships each. Furthermore, the playable versions of the bird-of-preys that can be launched have a maximum crew size of 30-50 crew that can fit on them.
Now, compare the selections that were picked out. The playable Mirandas and sub classes hold 200 crew altogether. That's a lot of people on a frigate. Not to mention they're big. The defiant and the aquarius on the other hand only hold 50 crew, but do you honestly want something like a defiant as a pet? The aquarius is also fairly big compared to the mirandas, especially when you remember that the npc version detaches from the Odyssey.
The federation already has a ship that is large enough to be able to launch frigates and that ship is the NPC Jupiter class (or the ugly kitbash ship). The only solution I can see if they know enough people want a federation frigate hangar pet would be to develop a unique pet that is about the same size as the birds-of-prey, and can be launched from a big ship. They would also have to be locked to the carrier.
The defiant and the aquarius on the other hand only hold 50 crew, but do you honestly want something like a defiant as a pet?
The fun fact about the Defiant is that it is a big ship. Over 500' long. That makes 50% longer then a BoP.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I don't see how they can make a carrier to compete with any of those three.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
Then I apologize for that but the point does stand any visual verification of the model shows 7 doors.
Thank you.
Fact of the matter is, I think the Feds have a perfectly serviceable Carrier in the game already once it's been changed. As I said in a different thread, the Jupiter Class could make a great carrier, and it even looks like it's a Cryptic version of the Typhon Class Carrier.
And instead of a big bulky Frigate like a Miranda or some modified Defiant or Aquarius, they could design their own version of the Valkyrie class fighters to be 'super fighters' or 'combat frigates' something to that effect and lock them to the Jupiter just like the Atrox-Stalker and Vo'Quv-BoPs are.
Where was the carrier vessel in DS9's Sacrifice of Angels episode? How do we know where the Strike Fighters came from?
For all we know is they could have been shipped in by simple heavy haul cargo ships no military value or capability and dropped off in the area before the fight.
Where was the carrier vessel in DS9's Sacrifice of Angels episode? How do we know where the Strike Fighters came from?
For all we know is they could have been shipped in by simple heavy haul cargo ships no military value or capability and dropped off in the area before the fight.
The feds dont need another carrier.
This makes me think the Tuffi needs a hanger or six :P
Where was the carrier vessel in DS9's Sacrifice of Angels episode? How do we know where the Strike Fighters came from?
For all we know is they could have been shipped in by simple heavy haul cargo ships no military value or capability and dropped off in the area before the fight.
The feds dont need another carrier.
Irrelevant.
The fact of the matter is that the hard core KDFers can't use the IP to argue against this one, like they try to do with the issue of Federation cloaking. IP actually leans in favor of Federation and RRF carriers in the game, as opposed to the KDF, if one wants to argue along that route.
However, I believe that everybody should have the option of faction-flavored full carriers. I do not believe in being fully constrained by canon, as far as the game goes.
It's way past time for a faction-flavor full carrier in the Starfleet line-up, not that giant cat litter box we got as a compromise solution. Same for the Romulans.
Now, if the Atrox got a Starfleet skin, with proper Starfleet markings,I would be satisfied. But it's likely not to happen. We'll see the Jupiter turned into a dreadnought carrier (which I would have no objection to), before the Atrox gets such a facelift.
What I'm saying is the following - if you're using the large size of the Galaxy or the Constellation based on canon to justify slapping a hangar on every second ship in STO, I'm going to use the even more evident canon where no Starfleet ship ever launched fighters in combat and needed to lower the shields in order for a shuttle to depart to showcase that none of those ships should be carriers. It's as simple as that.
Show me in canon where anyone from Kirk's era forward ever had to go to the bathroom. Since we never saw it, or heard it mentioned, going to the bathroom is not canon. See how silly and how far we can take the 'we didn't explicitly see it on screen' argument?
We do know for a fact that Galaxy class ships carried runabouts, there's no reason they couldn't combat launch them if they were so inclined.
Comments
If you can think of a reasonable explanation to why a ship like the constellation would need to deovote around a third of its hull space to seven hangers....but IMO I think it's pretty obvious that many of the federation 'flagships' have some capactiy to operate as carriers at least-and we do see the Federation much more willing to throw shuttles and fighters into the fray in later trek. My guess is it's just policy not to use shuttles in combat situations unless the situation warrents it, considering how readily they get blown up-Starfleet would probably consider it a senseless waste of life in most situations. That attitude seems to have changed later around the time of the Dominion war, I think.
Seven? Can you link to the info of that? Surfing through Memory Alpha AND Beta shows only two shuttlebays. There's not even a mention of it on Ex-Astris.
I'd love to read about this claim.
I never said there should be Klingon carriers.
What I'm saying is the following - if you're using the large size of the Galaxy or the Constellation based on canon to justify slapping a hangar on every second ship in STO, I'm going to use the even more evident canon where no Starfleet ship ever launched fighters in combat and needed to lower the shields in order for a shuttle to depart to showcase that none of those ships should be carriers. It's as simple as that.
That's right...you read it here! He is saying only the Scimitar should have a hangar!
Sorry couldn't resist. :P
Then again, many of the images were created by fans...
(Example: here )
Not even the Akira if we go by absolute canon as you say, since the Akira was never shown to carry and launch craft on screen. If you want to go by absolute canon, then it's only the Scimitar and the Kazon ship. (unless I'm forgetting some minor one time spinoff species that used them)
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Shuttlebay
"Constellation-class starships had seven shuttlebays. At the front of the ship, there was shuttlebay 1. Along the starboard, there were shuttlebays 2, 3, and 4. Along the port, there were shuttlebays 5, 6, and 7"
Google some pictures of the Constellation class and you'll see the model has one main shuttlebay on the front, and three on each side.
Not using just their large size (and the constellation isn't exactly large) The Constellation has seven hangers/shuttlebays-that's a lot of internal space devoted to shuttles, esp for such a small craft. It wouldn't be a stretch at all for it to be a ship like the Akira.
The Galaxy has a cavernous main hanger large enough to hold several runabouts. Outside of the scimitar it's probably the trek ship with the most space devoted to hangers.
I don't specifically recall anywhere in Trek where it is stated that shields have to be dropped to launch shuttles, or that shuttles can't be launched in combat, but shuttles are repeatedly used in combat throughout trek, particularly in DS9, but also in TNG and VOY, so there's definitely a precedent for that. Many fed ships certainly have the capability to act as at least flight-decks, since deploying six shuttles at a time isn't something that a galaxy or Constellation is incapable of. Whether or not 'carriers' should be forced to drop shields to deploy shuttles or not is an argument for another time-I think that would make for an interesting mechanic, myself.
Agreed,
The JHDC and Recluse are hands down the top 2 Carriers in this game; however, my Fleet Vo'Quv still holds the top spot in my heart
I think many Fed heavy players already know that the above carriers are the best but are hoping that any new Fed carrier that cryptic might role out would be better than them.
I do not feel that the Feds need more two hangar carriers but I do feel that they need their own Frigate Class Hangar support.
I always felt that the Aquarius Model should have also been used has Frigates for the Feds.
Yeah, I saw those while I surfed when replying to it, I was just hoping for something beyond fan pictures. I mean, the Enterprise D has three Shuttlebays and five hangars.
And things aren't always consistent, the Voyager's shuttlebay looks too small to hold the ships it does, or how long it looks from the inside, at least compared to the outside.
Thank you for being so polite to your fellow player who had the unmitigated gall to ask a question.
You see something "off" here right?
I find it odd that you seem to be lumping me in with people who don't like the idea of carriers because I asked for clarification on something.
Now, compare the selections that were picked out. The playable Mirandas and sub classes hold 200 crew altogether. That's a lot of people on a frigate. Not to mention they're big. The defiant and the aquarius on the other hand only hold 50 crew, but do you honestly want something like a defiant as a pet? The aquarius is also fairly big compared to the mirandas, especially when you remember that the npc version detaches from the Odyssey.
The federation already has a ship that is large enough to be able to launch frigates and that ship is the NPC Jupiter class (or the ugly kitbash ship). The only solution I can see if they know enough people want a federation frigate hangar pet would be to develop a unique pet that is about the same size as the birds-of-prey, and can be launched from a big ship. They would also have to be locked to the carrier.
The three best Full Carriers in the game (in no order) are the:
Tholian Recluse
Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier
Vo'Quv
I don't see how they can make a carrier to compete with any of those three.
Thank you.
Fact of the matter is, I think the Feds have a perfectly serviceable Carrier in the game already once it's been changed. As I said in a different thread, the Jupiter Class could make a great carrier, and it even looks like it's a Cryptic version of the Typhon Class Carrier.
And instead of a big bulky Frigate like a Miranda or some modified Defiant or Aquarius, they could design their own version of the Valkyrie class fighters to be 'super fighters' or 'combat frigates' something to that effect and lock them to the Jupiter just like the Atrox-Stalker and Vo'Quv-BoPs are.
Notice how no one wants to touch this
For all we know is they could have been shipped in by simple heavy haul cargo ships no military value or capability and dropped off in the area before the fight.
The feds dont need another carrier.
R.I.P
Been wondering this myself, since I recently saw it and don't recall seeing anything but fighters.
This makes me think the Tuffi needs a hanger or six :P
Irrelevant.
The fact of the matter is that the hard core KDFers can't use the IP to argue against this one, like they try to do with the issue of Federation cloaking. IP actually leans in favor of Federation and RRF carriers in the game, as opposed to the KDF, if one wants to argue along that route.
However, I believe that everybody should have the option of faction-flavored full carriers. I do not believe in being fully constrained by canon, as far as the game goes.
It's way past time for a faction-flavor full carrier in the Starfleet line-up, not that giant cat litter box we got as a compromise solution. Same for the Romulans.
Now, if the Atrox got a Starfleet skin, with proper Starfleet markings,I would be satisfied. But it's likely not to happen. We'll see the Jupiter turned into a dreadnought carrier (which I would have no objection to), before the Atrox gets such a facelift.
Show me in canon where anyone from Kirk's era forward ever had to go to the bathroom. Since we never saw it, or heard it mentioned, going to the bathroom is not canon. See how silly and how far we can take the 'we didn't explicitly see it on screen' argument?
We do know for a fact that Galaxy class ships carried runabouts, there's no reason they couldn't combat launch them if they were so inclined.
I believe the concept of large ships carrying a number of smaller warships to silly to begin with. It's like some TRIBBLE out of an anime OAV.
"Frigates" are not fighters. They are warships in their own right.
But whatever floats one's boat, I guess.