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Forums > Home› Feedback› Romulan Discussion

D'Tan's actions during the new FE. IE here be spoilers

rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
edited May 2014 in Romulan Discussion
Hey everyone. This thread is to talk about how you feel about D'Tan trying to make a push to control the 2nd Sphere during the new FE. It was not heavy handed but still. I think the Jenolan Sphere belong to the Federation and they should take point in any actions about this 2nd Sphere.
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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    edited April 2014
    rosetyler51 wrote: »
    Hey everyone. This thread is to talk about how you feel about D'Tan trying to make a push to control the 2nd Sphere during the new FE. It was not heavy handed but still. I think the Jenolan Sphere belong to the Federation and they should take point in any actions about this 2nd Sphere.

    It felt like an apology almost to Romulan players for some of his earlier habits and dialogue... it was almost... Romulan.

    I agree tho, Scottie crashed on it, it belongs to the fedrats
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kodachikuno wrote: »
    It felt like an apology almost to Romulan players for some of his earlier habits and dialogue... it was almost... Romulan.

    I agree. I hope this kind of characterization continues -- Romulans can be "good guys" without completely abandoning everything that made them an interesting race in the series.

    Can't wait til season 9.5 reveals that, in the chaos, someone accidentally sold the sphere to the Ferengi. :P
    @Kinanra_STO on Twitter • Star Trek Battles Regular • Sarita Devastated, my latest Foundry mission
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dragonsbrethren wrote: »
    Can't wait til season 9.5 reveals that, in the chaos, someone accidentally sold the sphere to the Ferengi. :P

    This just in. Summer Event 2015 has been moved to the Jenolan Dyson Sphere after the Ferengi converted a portion of the Dyson Sphere into a resort. Plans to convert the entire Dyson Sphere into a resort should be completed by 4409. Experts are baffled at how Grand Nagus Rom got the rights to the Jenolan Dyson Sphere. This has resulted in the follow Ferengi Rule of Acquistion, Rom is the luckiest SOB to ever live.
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    edited April 2014
    dragonsbrethren wrote: »
    Can't wait til season 9.5 reveals that, in the chaos, someone accidentally sold the sphere to the Ferengi. :P
    starkaos wrote: »
    This just in. Summer Event 2015 has been moved to the Jenolan Dyson Sphere after the Ferengi converted a portion of the Dyson Sphere into a resort.
    at least now we know who to murder when cryptic takes these 'player suggestions' seriously and does this to us
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Yeah I kinda reacted to the goold old Romulan arrogance as well. :D
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It was definitely a bit relieving to see Cryptic throw fans of the old Romulans a bone here. I hope we see more of this side of the Republic.
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I did not like it much. It was these little cloak and dagger plans that caused a few flaws in the Star Empire. I think of my Romulans as Republic before anything so seeing D'Tan's actions make me think Temer would be sad seeing that.
  • jmaster29jmaster29 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    rosetyler51 wrote: »
    I did not like it much. It was these little cloak and dagger plans that caused a few flaws in the Star Empire. I think of my Romulans as Republic before anything so seeing D'Tan's actions make me think Temer would be sad seeing that.

    What, so you want all the Romulans to turn into little Fed clones? A Romulan is a Romulan is a Romulan. In other words, while D'tans Republic is different, you can't COMPLETLY destroy a Romulans personality. I actually liked this, gave D'tan a lot of bonus points IMO.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    jmaster29 wrote: »
    What, so you want all the Romulans to turn into little Fed clones? A Romulan is a Romulan is a Romulan. In other words, while D'tans Republic is different, you can't COMPLETLY destroy a Romulans personality. I actually liked this, gave D'tan a lot of bonus points IMO.

    I don't think a whole race should have chronic back stabbing disorder. I'm saying the whole "Romulan Ideal" that people love so much is not a good way to do things. *again points to bits of rock that once the shining jewel of the Romulan Star Empire* That is what the Romulan Ideal you love so much gets you, rocks and death. Aim your blade not at your allies, the ones who helped you, the ones who fought beside you, the ones who you would call your brothers in arms.

    Aim your blade at the Elachi, the ones who attacks not ideals but Romulans. Aim your blade at the Tal'Shiar, the ones who cost you your home. Aim your blade at the Iconians, the ones who wish for us to bow at their feet.

    "March Under The Raptor Wings" No, I choose to fly. Higher then old ways that caused so many deaths, Higher then the idea that the only way to get ahead is tricks, lies, and ploys. I choose to fly, higher then the two dead worlds that was once called home and higher then the Raptor Wings.

    You hide under those wings like a chick scared to leave the nest, hiding in the shadows of a long dead empire. Me? I'm flying in the light.




    ((Pretty sure that was too much but I have chronic hot blooded ranting disorder.))
  • peregryperegry Member Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I didn't see any "backstabbing" in D'tan's speech, merely political maneuvering and posturing and also trying to be more assertive on the international stage, so to speak, rather than beggars as equals. He's trying to keep the Romulans in control of the situation and as the leader, which makes sense, because while they've begun to recover, they're nowhere near the strength of the Klingons and Federation.

    If the Klingons and Federation no longer have any need of the Republic, they can start to push them down and out from any gains made and the Republic isn't in any position to truly protest or counter, since they are the weakest of the three powers. This would put the Republic into a position similar to the Defari or Ferengi, a secondary power, which is not what the Romulans want to be. Bear in mind that while the Romulans of the Republic are not the same as the old Empire, they are still Romulan. They still are a proud people, and arguably have every right to be, I mean, how many species have lost not one, but TWO homeworlds (Vulcan and then Romulus) and gotten up and pulled themselves together and made star-spanning Empires? How many species can point out that they came from truly nothing, rejected by their own civilization, and yet became more powerful and populous than those who cast them out? There's a good reason for Romulan arrogance and pride, and it's good to see that D'tan and the Republic still reflect that stubborn passion that makes Romulans what they are.

    We'll see how it goes. The Republic does want to play nice with its neighbors. Not just because they're weaker or to maintain a united front against more dangerous foes, but because they are trying a different path than the one they previously tread. But they also do not want to become a mere Federation protectorate like the Cardassians, or a subject race of the Klingons, like the Gorn. So they must sometimes assert strength and independence, to show that they're not just a tag-along, but that they are one of the three Great Powers of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, and deserve to stand as equals with the hegemonic powers of the Klingons and Federation.
  • mikoto8472mikoto8472 Member Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    rosetyler51 wrote: »
    I don't think a whole race should have chronic back stabbing disorder. I'm saying the whole "Romulan Ideal" that people love so much is not a good way to do things. *again points to bits of rock that once the shining jewel of the Romulan Star Empire* That is what the Romulan Ideal you love so much gets you, rocks and death. Aim your blade not at your allies, the ones who helped you, the ones who fought beside you, the ones who you would call your brothers in arms.

    Aim your blade at the Elachi, the ones who attacks not ideals but Romulans. Aim your blade at the Tal'Shiar, the ones who cost you your home. Aim your blade at the Iconians, the ones who wish for us to bow at their feet.

    "March Under The Raptor Wings" No, I choose to fly. Higher then old ways that caused so many deaths, Higher then the idea that the only way to get ahead is tricks, lies, and ploys. I choose to fly, higher then the two dead worlds that was once called home and higher then the Raptor Wings.

    You hide under those wings like a chick scared to leave the nest, hiding in the shadows of a long dead empire. Me? I'm flying in the light.




    ((Pretty sure that was too much but I have chronic hot blooded ranting disorder.))


    You don't fly alone, brother/sister.
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I don't really buy the whole "but look where the Romulan chronic backstabbing disorder got them' argument. The RSE got the way it was basically by Author fiat. Crytpic/JJ basically engineered a situation that guaranteed the destruction of the Empire. The RSE fell not so much as a natural result of Romulan attitudes leading to their downfall, but because Hakeev/the Tal Shiar are horribly written caricatures written in to explain a plot development that had no place existing in the first place. Particularly after the Legacy of Romulus retcons that turned the RSE into even more of a funhouse mirror distortion of the RSE from the shows.


    The Old Romulan way managed to get them a massive Empire carved out of nothing essentially. So I think there's plenty of indication that their way of life works just fine as it is. And at any rate, it's a core element of what made the RSE so memorable. nobody wants to play the Cryptic RSE, because they have written them to be a laughable parody of cartoonish villains. (which may be a little unfair to laughable parodies of cartoonish villains). A lot of people do want Romulans more in the Vein of the TNG/DS9 era Romulans, and finally they are starting to throw us some bones here.

    This is perfectly in line with Romulan behavior from the shows, which the RR has been sorely lacking. Rather funny how many people want the Romulans to be some sort of 'Federation Lite'-You already have a faction for that It makes so little sense to complain when the Romulans actually behave like Romulans for a change.
  • z3ndor99z3ndor99 Member Posts: 1,391 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    My rommie ( which is my main ) has felt a certain fuzzy feeling since launch which has been weird but, this part with d'tan made me smile. It's not that the Republic are gonna go tal shiar power crazy, its the fact they were being slightly underhanded, it was very heartwarming! :)
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    You remember who blew up Romulus and Remus right? It was Taris. A key officer of the RSE's navy. And lets look at some of her history.

    "Taris orders General Tebok to take down the resulting Kevratan insurrection. Instead, he refuses to fire on civilians and the Praetor orders him to resign his position as Fleet Commander. The Romulan Senate overrules her decision and Tebok remains in command of the military."

    And was one of her more sane actions. While I will say not all of the RSE was insane fools but most of those that was in power should not be allowed to walk without 10 guards aiming weapons at them.

    The Empire died by its own hand and I do not wish to see the happen to Republic.
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    rosetyler51 wrote: »
    You remember who blew up Romulus and Remus right? It was Taris. A key officer of the RSE's navy. And lets look at some of her history.

    "Taris orders General Tebok to take down the resulting Kevratan insurrection. Instead, he refuses to fire on civilians and the Praetor orders him to resign his position as Fleet Commander. The Romulan Senate overrules her decision and Tebok remains in command of the military."

    And was one of her more sane actions. While I will say not all of the RSE was insane fools but most of those that was in power should not be allowed to walk without 10 guards aiming weapons at them.

    The Empire died by its own hand and I do not wish to see the happen to Republic.
    Like I said before, nobody wants to play as the godawful parodies that Cryptic made the Tal Shiar and co into. It's the Romulans from the show folks are requesting.

    D'Tan is acting like a Romulan from the shows for once. Not a federation lite wannabee, nor a psychotic Tal Shiar mental patient, but an actual Romulan. I consider that a good thing.

    Remember, it was Cryptic's loonies who blew up Romulus. Folks that I'd think it's safe to say nobody wants to play as. And I didn't detect anything in his actions that indicated he was acting like one of Cryptic's Tal Shiar nutters, but rather like a 'normal' Romulan.
  • z3ndor99z3ndor99 Member Posts: 1,391 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Umm cryptic did not blow up romulus it was jj Abrahams, cryptic unfortunately had to clean up his mess!
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Yes, I mentioned JJ's role in this. Cryptic wrote the details though. They didn't need to have the supernova blow up all of the RSE's major colonies as well, they likewise didn't need to blame it on the Romulans. JJ, despite his role in blowing it up for cheap drama, never touched on the cause or the aftermath of the event. All that's on Cryptic-who decided to make the Tal Shiar into a bunch of idiots who'd genocide their own empire no good reason whatsoever.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    catoblepasbeta wrote: »
    Yes, I mentioned JJ's role in this. Cryptic wrote the details though. They didn't need to have the supernova blow up all of the RSE's major colonies as well, they likewise didn't need to blame it on the Romulans. JJ, despite his role in blowing it up for cheap drama, never touched on the cause or the aftermath of the event. All that's on Cryptic-who decided to make the Tal Shiar into a bunch of idiots who'd genocide their own empire no good reason whatsoever.
    someone has clearly not been reading the lore very carefully...romulus and remus were destroyed by the supernova, as well as the planets in the hobus system itself of course, but that's it - no other colonies were touched

    and that's what makes it so utterly stupid, besides a supernova going FTL in the first place...it somehow manages to travel 100 lightyears from hobus all the way to romulus and doesn't touch a single planet in its path...yeah

    as long as cryptic is going retcon-happy lately, here's hoping they retcon that nonsense next
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    catoblepasbeta wrote: »
    Like I said before, nobody wants to play as the godawful parodies that Cryptic made the Tal Shiar and co into. It's the Romulans from the show folks are requesting.
    And I say again, the only "Romulans from the show" outside of Spock's Unificationists were military officers, Gestapo, and the odd politician. Unlike the Klingons and Cardassians they were barely developed as a faction at all.

    Far more likely that the Romulans we interacted with were all schemers because that's the nature of their chosen occupations, not because every Romulan ever is a schemer (because otherwise they'd have driven themselves into extinction).

    Ergo, D'Tan's thinking like a politician, not like a Romulan. It was really no different from Jiro Sugihara trying to downplay the Federation's idiocy (which I was very pleased to see Shon respond to by basically telling him to get stuffed), or that Ferengi moron trying to buy real estate in a war zone. He was jockeying for political position, not "acting like a Romulan".
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    Unlike the Klingons and Cardassians they were barely developed as a faction at all.
    that was probably meant to be intentional, because mysterious, reclusive, blablabla...
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    On the flip side, the only Romulans outside of the Unificationist movement we see tend to act like schemers. Heck, even the reunificationists and federation sympathizers could be pretty darn devious at times.

    So on one hand we have the schemers, and on the other? Not really much evidence of the Republic types existing in such numbers.

    Compare to the Klingons. Most Klingons we see are warriors. Yet we don't see people arguing that their warrior emphasis is not a cornerstone of their culture. Always interesting to see folks trying to sweep the consistant TNG-DS9 portrayal of Romulans under the rug and pretend that they were all secretely like the Republic all along.

    Moving away from demographics, at any rate their characterization has pretty reliably been characterized by a particular set of traits that made them memorable to many. Cryptic is finally made baby steps towards acknowledging folks who were fans of the TNG-DS9 Romulans. I don't see how this can be considered a bad thing.
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Ok. I'm willing to say I may overreacted. Just between Feds with Drake and the Klingon and just about most of Klingon story. Two of the 3 factions are pretty grimdark (as grimdark as Star Trek can get anyway). The Republic felt like clean. Their fight is not for "honor" or a twisted idea of right. They fought for simply the right to not die or worst. Seeing D'Tan the politician and not one of the Heroes of the Republic may have been a little jarring for me and made say things I may not have meant.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    rosetyler51 wrote: »
    Seeing D'Tan the politician and not one of the Heroes of the Republic
    what do you think this is, star wars?

    d'tan is not the Hero with no Fear, nor is he the Negotiator
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    what do you think this is, star wars?

    d'tan is not the Hero with no Fear, nor is he the Negotiator

    I did not understand anything you said besides Star Wars.
  • tyrant1944tyrant1944 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    "Misdirection is the key to survival. Never attack what your enemy defends. Never behave as your enemy expects and never reveal your true strength. If knowledge is power, then to be unknown is to be unconquerable."
    -TRUE Romulan maxim
    Tyranus@MrHaw - 60 GWF - Dragon
    whatcolor_iswhite.jpg
  • kintishokintisho Member Posts: 1,040 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Romulan behavior yes, and good. The federation expects this and should respond accordingly, sighting the harsh dealings of romulan interests over all others in the past as well as the KDF expectations of honor. Meaning that traditional romulan tactics of superiority and control will likely meet with bad results and that this kind of manipulation and subterfuge at this point in time would be detrimental to all life in the alpha and beta quadrants. Its our sphere, we claimed it decades ago, what gives you the right?
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    kintisho wrote: »
    Its our sphere, we claimed it decades ago, what gives you the right?
    the only reason that claim wasn't challenged at the time is because it was in federation territory

    guess what, it ain't in federation territory anymore - it's fair game now
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    catoblepasbeta wrote: »
    Yes, I mentioned JJ's role in this. Cryptic wrote the details though. They didn't need to have the supernova blow up all of the RSE's major colonies as well, they likewise didn't need to blame it on the Romulans. JJ, despite his role in blowing it up for cheap drama, never touched on the cause or the aftermath of the event. All that's on Cryptic-who decided to make the Tal Shiar into a bunch of idiots who'd genocide their own empire no good reason whatsoever.

    Hakeev thought he had a good reason. He's in thrall to the Iconians (by choice, no less) and they told him to do it. He in turn duped* Taris into pulling the actual trigger.

    Honestly the scenario is really hurt by Cryptic's cartoonish writing and voice-acting. Despite his actions Hakeev comes off as a posturing buffoon instead of the clever monster the plot really calls for.

    * So she says anyway. YMMV on whether it's the truth.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    catoblepasbeta wrote: »
    Like I said before, nobody wants to play as the godawful parodies that Cryptic made the Tal Shiar and co into. It's the Romulans from the show folks are requesting.

    Exactly. I hate how both sides are written. This little bit from D'Tan is one of the few times I felt they got the characterization right.

    Even the Borg episode revamp keeps the "supervillain" Tal Shiar -- that mission would be so much better without the Republic prisoners, you'd actually have a bit of a moral dilemma at the end. Can you really fault the Empire for experimenting with Borg technology, when the Federation and Klingons do the exact same thing? But no, the prisoners pretty much shove it in your face that the Star Empire is evil, no subtlety there.
    @Kinanra_STO on Twitter • Star Trek Battles Regular • Sarita Devastated, my latest Foundry mission
  • jmaster29jmaster29 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    rosetyler51 wrote: »
    I did not understand anything you said besides Star Wars.

    The negotiator was the name given to Obi-wan Kenobi (or at least the name used by General Grevious)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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