A torp with "base" damage of 7738.65 hits the target (Typhoon in Empire Defense - Federation).
773.865 damage is done to the hull (standard 10% bleed/penetration vs. 0% damage resistance).
Six hits of 51.591 from the DoT land against the hull for a total of 309.546 damage.
That's 40% of the 773.865 damage that hit the target because of the 10% bleed/penetration.
A torp with "base" damage of 7076.47 hits the target (Borg Repair Hulk in Ker'rat).
7076.47 damage is done to the hull (no shields).
Six hits of 471.765 from the DoT land against the hull for a total of 2830.59 damage.
That's ~40% of the 7076.47 damage that hit the target because of no shields.
Okay, with this one - I'm just going to copy the log...it's a simple 3stack.
14:04:16:05:01:17.2::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Geqsry1,Kinetic,,7931.4,0
14:04:16:05:01:18.2::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,528.76,0
14:04:16:05:01:18.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Kinetic,Critical,17031.5,0
14:04:16:05:01:19.2::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,528.76,0
14:04:16:05:01:19.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,1135.44,0
14:04:16:05:01:20.2::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,528.76,0
14:04:16:05:01:20.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Geqsry1,Kinetic,,7330.3,0
14:04:16:05:01:20.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,1135.44,0
14:04:16:05:01:21.3::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,528.76,0
14:04:16:05:01:21.3::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,757.371,0
14:04:16:05:01:21.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,488.686,0
14:04:16:05:01:21.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,1135.44,0
14:04:16:05:01:22.2::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,528.76,0
14:04:16:05:01:22.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,488.686,0
14:04:16:05:01:22.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,1135.44,0
14:04:16:05:01:23.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,744.288,0
14:04:16:05:01:23.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,528.76,0
14:04:16:05:01:23.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,488.686,0
14:04:16:05:01:24.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,1135.44,0
14:04:16:05:01:24.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,488.686,0
14:04:16:05:01:24.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,664.845,0
14:04:16:05:01:24.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,1135.44,0
14:04:16:05:01:25.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,488.686,0
14:04:16:05:01:26.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,488.686,0
This one shows overwriting. Basically, a new DoT applied overwrites the oldest DoT that was applied. That first 59.7015 DoT did 5ticks before it was replaced by the 56.9101 DoT.
14:04:16:05:07:20.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Shield,,-1732.84,-8059.7
14:04:16:05:07:20.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Kinetic,,895.523,8955.23
14:04:16:05:07:21.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,59.7015,0
14:04:16:05:07:21.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Shield,,-3593.14,-16712.3
14:04:16:05:07:21.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Kinetic,Critical,1856.92,18569.2
14:04:16:05:07:22.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,59.7015,0
14:04:16:05:07:23.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,123.795,0
14:04:16:05:07:23.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,59.7015,0
14:04:16:05:07:23.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Geqsry1,Shield,,-1480.78,-6887.37
14:04:16:05:07:23.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Geqsry1,Kinetic,,765.263,7652.63
14:04:16:05:07:24.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,123.795,0
14:04:16:05:07:24.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,59.7015,0
14:04:16:05:07:24.3::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,731.357,0
14:04:16:05:07:24.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,51.0175,0
14:04:16:05:07:25.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,123.795,0
14:04:16:05:07:25.2::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,59.7015,0
14:04:16:05:07:25.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Shield,,-1651.81,-7682.86
14:04:16:05:07:25.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Kinetic,,853.651,8536.51
14:04:16:05:07:25.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,51.0175,0
14:04:16:05:07:26.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,123.795,0
14:04:16:05:07:26.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,662.963,0
14:04:16:05:07:26.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,56.9101,0
14:04:16:05:07:26.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,51.0175,0
14:04:16:05:07:27.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,123.795,0
14:04:16:05:07:27.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,56.9101,0
14:04:16:05:07:27.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,123.795,0
14:04:16:05:07:27.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,51.0175,0
14:04:16:05:07:28.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,638.15,0
14:04:16:05:07:28.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,56.9101,0
14:04:16:05:07:28.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,51.0175,0
14:04:16:05:07:29.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,56.9101,0
14:04:16:05:07:29.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,751.031,0
14:04:16:05:07:29.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,51.0175,0
14:04:16:05:07:30.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,56.9101,0
14:04:16:05:07:31.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,56.9101,0
This one shows overwriting. Basically, a new DoT applied overwrites the oldest DoT that was applied. That first 59.7015 DoT did 5ticks before it was replaced by the 56.9101 DoT.
Wait ... does this mean a Quantum HY would only apply one DoT because the last torpedo fired overwrites the DoTs applied by the other torpedoes? If this is true, single shot HY blobs/tricobalts would gain better results with this trait.
How Omega Kinetic Shearing extra damage affect Plasma and Transphasic Torps?
As I understand, if base for this 40% is "damage done to hull", then I see following things:
-Transphasic Torps with best penetration will benefit this buff far more then any other torpedo type, since it is effectively increasing damage done to shielded hull from 40% to 56% (considering OKS as extra penetration) - it is HUGE buff to all transphasic torpedo-boat builds, increasing their DPS by ~30% (not 40%, because of limited stacking).
-Plasma torps will benefit this change much less, since huge part of damage is moved to Plasma Radiation - which, as I understand, is not added to calculated base damage for purpose of OKS bonus.
Is that correct?
One more thing:
Stacking limit of 3 is bad idea because of multiple reasons:
- It is making using multiple torpedoes types difficult, since weak, fast firing torps will overwrite strong buffs applied by heavier torps (for example - Omega Rapid Fire and Tricobalts), and it is effectively limiting number of efficient builds. Players will be forced to stick to torps of similar base damage to hull, because any extra DOT from stronger projectiles will be cleared by DOT of weaker torps.
- multi-torp attacks of T:HY/T:S damage will be weaker then expected. THY3 strike with 4 torps, it mean only 3 DOT will apply, and these DOTs will clear stronger debuffs coming from regular torpedo attacks (because single torpedo from THY3 is significantly weaker then regular torpedo)
How Omega Kinetic Shearing extra damage affect Plasma and Transphasic Torps?
As I understand, if base for this 40% is "damage done to hull", then I see following things:
-Transphasic Torps with best penetration will benefit this buff far more then any other torpedo type, since it is effectively increasing damage done to shielded hull from 40% to 56% (considering OKS as extra penetration) - it is HUGE buff to all transphasic torpedo-boat builds, increasing their DPS by ~30% (not 40%, because of limited stacking).
Not sure it is a buff if anything its a large nerf. You do less damage per shot and 80%+ of the shots will not do any extra damage due to the stack limit. Instead of getting a damage boost for all mines and torpedoes we now end up with 80% of mines and torpedoes getting zero damage boost due to the stack limit.
That is now two torpedo and mine powers made next to useless for torpedoes and mines. Omega Graviton Amplifiers is pretty much useless and now this Omega Kinetic Shearing. :mad:
Omega Kinetic Shearing is incompatible with torpedo skills or mine skills like disposable pattern beta. Weapons like the cluster torpedo will not gain much damage as 80% of the mines will do zero extra damage with zero proc. Same for disposable pattern no more extra damage.
EDIT: It is not a 40% damage boost because your 4th,5th, 6th and so on shots are going to do zero extra damage. So in fact you do less damage then in the old system as at least in the old system every shot boosted damage.
[*]Omega Weapons Training has been replaced with a new reputation trait, Omega Kinetic Shearing.
Omega Kinetic Shearing causes all of your Mine and Torpedo attacks to deal 40% extra damage over a 6 second period.
This DoT is based off the damage that reaches the target's hull from the initial impact.
Damage dealt to shields is not used in the calculation.
The DoT from Omega Kinetic Shearing deals 100% Shield Penetrating Kinetic damage.
The DoT from Omega Kinetic Shearing can stack up to 3 times from any given user.
Each DoT's value will be calculated based on the projectile that triggered it.
The DoT from Omega Kinetic Shearing is counted both as a Hazard and as a Science-type debuff.
Yeah, nerf a trait that's usefull for almost all builds and give us something that's not only too complicated but also quite feeble compared to other abilities. I'd never use this trait on any of my builds, that's for sure.
Yeah, nerf a trait that's usefull for almost all builds and give us something that's not only too complicated but also quite feeble compared to other abilities. I'd never use this trait on any of my builds, that's for sure.
My thoughts exactly, everytime I think they can't TRIBBLE me off anymore with this rep revamp BS they find a new way to make sure I don't want to play the game. The prior omega weapons trait was a great trait for any build, now its only useful for those who use torpedos, which outside of pvp anyone who uses torpedos is just gimping themselves. This trait won't change the fact that torpedos are weak and useless in all PvE.
My thoughts exactly, everytime I think they can't TRIBBLE me off anymore with this rep revamp BS they find a new way to make sure I don't want to play the game. The prior omega weapons trait was a great trait for any build, now its only useful for those who use torpedos, which outside of pvp anyone who uses torpedos is just gimping themselves. This trait won't change the fact that torpedos are weak and useless in all PvE.
Last time I looked it was pretty useless for people who use torpedo's and mines. Any torpedo or mine boat will be crazy to waste a slot on this. Due to the way it stacks 80%+ of your hits get zero extra damage. Its a horrible change. The changes are really putting me off the rep system. The few powers that used to be good for my builds have all been made useless.
Not sure it is a buff if anything its a large nerf. You do less damage per shot and 80%+ of the shots will not do any extra damage due to the stack limit. Instead of getting a damage boost for all mines and torpedoes we now end up with 80% of mines and torpedoes getting zero damage boost due to the stack limit.
That is now two torpedo and mine powers made next to useless for torpedoes and mines. Omega Graviton Amplifiers is pretty much useless and now this Omega Kinetic Shearing.
Omega Kinetic Shearing is incompatible with torpedo skills or mine skills like disposable pattern beta. Weapons like the cluster torpedo will not gain much damage as 80% of the mines will do zero extra damage with zero proc. Same for disposable pattern no more extra damage.
EDIT: It is not a 40% damage boost because your 4th,5th, 6th and so on shots are going to do zero extra damage. So in fact you do less damage then in the old system
Incompatibility to Torpedo/Mine skills is very bad idea. IMO Stack limit should be removed, it will fix most of these problems. Torps and mines are underused anyway, I see no reason of penalting players who wish to use any of following:
- Two or more torpedoes with largely differing base damage (like Omega Rapid Fire + Tricobalt)
- T:HY/H:S
- Multiple launchers allowing to fire more then 3 torps/6 seconds
- Projectile DOFFS allowing to fire more then 3 torps/6 seconds
Please remember this DoT is removed by BOTH Hazard Emitters AND Science Team - it is very hard to find a ship without at least one of these abilities (My HEC use both of them + 2x DOFF reducing ST cooldown to 15s - and it is pure escort with only 1 LT Scence slot).
Last time I looked it was pretty useless for people who use torpedo's and mines. Any torpedo or mine boat will be crazy to waste a slot on this. Due to the way it stacks 80%+ of your hits get zero extra damage. Its a horrible change. The changes are really putting me off the rep system. The few powers that used to be good for my builds have all been made useless.
Only problem with this passive is stacking limit, removing this TRIBBLE will fix it. Torps/mines definitely need more attention, and it is step in good direction. Remove the limit and it is OK.
My thoughts exactly, everytime I think they can't TRIBBLE me off anymore with this rep revamp BS they find a new way to make sure I don't want to play the game. The prior omega weapons trait was a great trait for any build, now its only useful for those who use torpedos, which outside of pvp anyone who uses torpedos is just gimping themselves. This trait won't change the fact that torpedos are weak and useless in all PvE.
Bad thought,...thinking they can't tick us off anymore.
Great the last of the Torpedo and mine powers have now been massively nerfed and there are no decent powers left for them
This just killed the reputation system for me. Also concerned about the major bugs that have been reported and are not in the fix or known issue list.
No more rep system for me either, (I skipped Nukara as it is), they'll just move the carrot onto a longer stick, and when you finally do reach it, they'll cut the carrot in half.
What's the point? I'll just have to live with the 3 out of 4 active reputation traits.
(Practicing self-nerfing as to not give an unfair advantage to anyone...lol).
Perhaps I could give away all the passives I earned, but can no longer use. (Or perhaps give them to one of my two alts that won't be doing any rep).
Bugs?.... hehe, that's a lost cause. No one wants that job.....and it's apparently too hard to just do it right the first time.
At least with this season, it looks like I might actually be able to log on without crashing like the first missed month of season 8.
Logging on is good,...well kinda.
Steve@SCCreations - Fleet General - Persistent OfficerTitle & Accolade Deceiver's Lair Fleet
Why the heck are people still playing this game, if they are making these HORRIBLE changes and nerfs.
...and if no one likes these changes, WHY are they going through with them?
I don't understand the logic here.
Because according to a certain segment of their audiences every game in the history of the medium (that has had significant post-launch updates and support, or you can simply consider the matter across multiple releases of a single franchise) makes progressively more terrible changes as its lifespan goes on. Why? Well it's not because of what they're doing but where we set our standards. However these changes turn out, the process of change makes us scared and confused simply on the point that it's different [and to our habitual playstyle that's the worst thing imaginable].
Speaking to my own standards, I like what cryptic is doing. Some of it is a bother but the end result is a game with just a little more depth than there was before. I see that there's a hill we have to climb (ie. gotta work out an optimal trait scheme, gotta acquire a new kit) but I also see there's an acceptable payoff on the other side (better combat through more and more sensible stat/ability customization systems.) Hell, I even like the omega torp sheer ability (because I suspect that it's going to make torpedo combat a whole lot more interesting, even if DPS generally dips a tiny fraction because of the substitution.)
Why are people still playing this game? Because there's been a good number of similar changes in the past and however that's faired with the more entrenched its given the others more to play with and more to play for.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
because According To A Certain Segment Of Their Audiences Every Game In The History Of The Medium (that Has Had Significant Post-launch Updates And Support, Or You Can Simply Consider The Matter Across Multiple Releases Of A Single Franchise) Makes Progressively More Terrible Changes As Its Lifespan Goes On. Why? Well It's Not Because Of What They're Doing But Where We Set Our Standards. However These Changes Turn Out, The Process Of Change Makes Us Scared And Confused Simply On The Point That it's Different [and To Our habitual playstyle That's The Worst Thing Imaginable].
Speaking To My Own Standards, I Like What Cryptic Is Doing. Some Of It Is A Bother But The End Result Is A Game With Just A Little More Depth Than There Was Before. I See That There's A Hill We Have To Climb (ie. Gotta Work Out An Optimal Trait Scheme, Gotta Acquire A New Kit) But I Also See There's An Acceptable Payoff On The Other Side (better Combat Through More And More Sensible Stat/ability Customization Systems.) Hell, I Even Like The Omega Torp Sheer Ability (because I Suspect That It's Going To Make Torpedo Combat A Whole Lot More Interesting, Even If Dps Generally Dips A Tiny Fraction Because Of The Substitution.)
Why Are People Still Playing This Game? Because There's Been A Good Number Of Similar Changes In The Past And However That's Faired With The More Entrenched Its Given The Others More To Play With And More To Play For.
Because according to a certain segment of their audiences every game in the history of the medium (that has had significant post-launch updates and support, or you can simply consider the matter across multiple releases of a single franchise) makes progressively more terrible changes as its lifespan goes on. Why? Well it's not because of what they're doing but where we set our standards. However these changes turn out, the process of change makes us scared and confused simply on the point that it's different [and to our habitual playstyle that's the worst thing imaginable].
Speaking to my own standards, I like what cryptic is doing. Some of it is a bother but the end result is a game with just a little more depth than there was before. I see that there's a hill we have to climb (ie. gotta work out an optimal trait scheme, gotta acquire a new kit) but I also see there's an acceptable payoff on the other side (better combat through more and more sensible stat/ability customization systems.) Hell, I even like the omega torp sheer ability (because I suspect that it's going to make torpedo combat a whole lot more interesting, even if DPS generally dips a tiny fraction because of the substitution.)
Why are people still playing this game? Because there's been a good number of similar changes in the past and however that's faired with the more entrenched its given the others more to play with and more to play for.
While overall I would agree with more torpedo damage, this shearing ability seems a bit... badly implemented.
Why cant they just flat out boost torpedo damage, rather than to add this easy to bug up dot system?
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
While overall I would agree with more torpedo damage, this shearing ability seems a bit... badly implemented.
Why cant they just flat out boost torpedo damage, rather than to add this easy to bug up dot system?
i am just getting really tired of needing a graduate degree in math to figure what the buffs even do... a 2% chance of X that ignores 5% of Y and can only stack 5x in a 30 sec period if the moon is a waning crescent.
At least in the old system it was just obvious which power was useless to you even if you really didn't know how it worked.
That aside, what really needs to be addressed is the the fact I no longer trust the devs and wont be grinding stuff out anymore.
How do we know any changes they make will last 6 months or even a year. How many times has omega rep changed and how much time and enjoyment have you lost grinding and REGRINDING various aspects of it. Romulan rep is about a year old, Dyson isn't even and they are already tweaking and changing it. They just added spire kits and couple of months later you more or less wasted your time and money buying one. Grinding is they are offering and there is now no guarantee you will even get to keep what you grinded for more than a couple of weeks
i am just getting really tired of needing a graduate degree in math to figure what the buffs even do... a 2% chance of X that ignores 5% of Y and can only stack 5x in a 30 sec period if the moon is a waning crescent.
At least in the old system it was just obvious which power was useless to you even if you really didn't know how it worked.
That aside, what really needs to be addressed is the the fact I no longer trust the devs and wont be grinding stuff out anymore.
How do we know any changes they make will last 6 months or even a year. How many times has omega rep changed and how much time and enjoyment have you lost grinding and REGRINDING various aspects of it. Romulan rep is about a year old, Dyson isn't even and they are already tweaking and changing it. They just added spire kits and couple of months later you more or less wasted your time and money buying one. Grinding is they are offering and there is now no guarantee you will even get to keep what you grinded for more than a couple of weeks
Actually I heard Spire kits will be better than the new fleet kits.
SO if the powers in the kits now are good, I think its wise to buy them now.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
How Omega Kinetic Shearing extra damage affect Plasma and Transphasic Torps?
As I understand, if base for this 40% is "damage done to hull", then I see following things:
-Transphasic Torps with best penetration will benefit this buff far more then any other torpedo type, since it is effectively increasing damage done to shielded hull from 40% to 56% (considering OKS as extra penetration) - it is HUGE buff to all transphasic torpedo-boat builds, increasing their DPS by ~30% (not 40%, because of limited stacking).
-Plasma torps will benefit this change much less, since huge part of damage is moved to Plasma Radiation - which, as I understand, is not added to calculated base damage for purpose of OKS bonus.
Is that correct?
I, too, wondered if transphasics would now encroach upon the territory of plasma, but I haven't crunched the numbers to check. Keep in mind the T2 Nukara passive "Enhanced Shield Penetration" grants +5% shield penetration. Of course, with the stack limit of 3, the new passive might not be that strong anyway.
Wait ... does this mean a Quantum HY would only apply one DoT because the last torpedo fired overwrites the DoTs applied by the other torpedoes? If this is true, single shot HY blobs/tricobalts would gain better results with this trait.
So if somebody landed a HY Targetable instead of a HY Salvo...if three torps hit within the ~6s duration, the third one (would actually be the 4th) would overwrite the DoT from that HY Targetable.
Even if you were running a mix of torps with fast hitters and heavy hitters, those lower damage fast hitters that were likely being used for CD reduction on the heavy hitters...will overwrite the shearing from the heavy hitters with their weaker shearing.
How Omega Kinetic Shearing extra damage affect Plasma and Transphasic Torps?
As I understand, if base for this 40% is "damage done to hull", then I see following things:
-Transphasic Torps with best penetration will benefit this buff far more then any other torpedo type, since it is effectively increasing damage done to shielded hull from 40% to 56% (considering OKS as extra penetration) - it is HUGE buff to all transphasic torpedo-boat builds, increasing their DPS by ~30% (not 40%, because of limited stacking).
-Plasma torps will benefit this change much less, since huge part of damage is moved to Plasma Radiation - which, as I understand, is not added to calculated base damage for purpose of OKS bonus.
Is that correct?
Would have to check the numbers, but what you say there - well, would have to work out the numbers but it sounds reasonable. Have to keep in mind the actual base damage of the torps when looking at it.
For example, with the Transphasics...
vs. normal shields, they're doing 46% of their damage to hull instead of 10%
vs. resilient shields, they're doing 43% of their damage to hull instead of 5%
Trans have a base damage of 978 vs. say the base damage of 1503 of a Quant.
There's a bit of room for play, so to speak...but basically it's in the range of the Trans doing ~3x the DoT that the Quant would do vs. shielded targets. On the other hand though, the Quant will do ~1.5x the DoT vs. unshielded targets that the Trans would.
Which kind of goes back to the overwriting thing...if somebody thought to carry both.
vs. shielded, the weaker Quant SDoTs could overwrite the stronger Trans SDoTs
vs. unshielded, the weaker Trans SDoTs could overwrite the stronger Quant SDoTs
As for Plasma, yep - with the lower actual base damage (1061), they would drop out a weaker SDoT than say a Quant...but they'd also have their PDoT going. Would have to combine the two...can't remember a PDoT value off hand...meh.
One more thing:
Stacking limit of 3 is bad idea because of multiple reasons:
- It is making using multiple torpedoes types difficult, since weak, fast firing torps will overwrite strong buffs applied by heavier torps (for example - Omega Rapid Fire and Tricobalts), and it is effectively limiting number of efficient builds. Players will be forced to stick to torps of similar base damage to hull, because any extra DOT from stronger projectiles will be cleared by DOT of weaker torps.
- multi-torp attacks of T:HY/T:S damage will be weaker then expected. THY3 strike with 4 torps, it mean only 3 DOT will apply, and these DOTs will clear stronger debuffs coming from regular torpedo attacks (because single torpedo from THY3 is significantly weaker then regular torpedo)
Yep, that second part...hadn't thought about that with the HY Salvos and Spreads. Looking at the tooltip over on Tribble...
Normal Torp: 8127.6
TS3 Torp: 4773.9x4
HY3 Torp: 6033.2x4
EDIT: It is not a 40% damage boost because your 4th,5th, 6th and so on shots are going to do zero extra damage. So in fact you do less damage then in the old system as at least in the old system every shot boosted damage.
As it stands now on Holodeck, it's providing a +15% base damage boost. The previous version on Tribble provided a +10% non-base boost. That was a significant boost compared to what is currently on Holo.
It's not a case that additional shots are going to do zero extra damage. They might do worse damage or they might do better damage. They overwrite...so it will be a case of maintaining the 3x SDoTs on the target.
Going with a RoF of ~1/1.5s with a DoT that ticks ~1/1s is a little rough; but one could break it down to it basically being a single tick boost per torp, eh? So we're basically looking at a 6.67% non-base boost to hull damage compared to the current +15% base boost to hull & shield damage.
So going back to our Quant torps from earlier in this post.
I, too, wondered if transphasics would now encroach upon the territory of plasma, but I haven't crunched the numbers to check. Keep in mind the T2 Nukara passive "Enhanced Shield Penetration" grants +5% shield penetration. Of course, with the stack limit of 3, the new passive might not be that strong anyway.
The T2 only affects directed energy attacks...meh, I keep bugging Cryptic to show Projectiles some love with this.
I'll keep a close eye on the stack limit - it was put there mostly to prevent any absurd edge cases I couldn't think of from getting out of hand, and to encourage players to use both projectiles and energy weapons together. I could see raising it to 5 so that a HY barrage doesn't overwrite itself. I could maybe see removing the stack limit altogether, but that pushes people back towards "throw as many projectiles as possible" instead of "focus on big hits on weak shield facings". If nothing else, I could see changing it so that the DoT only gets replaced if it's higher mag than the one it's replacing.
The goal with this trait is to give projectile-centric builds a means of coming closer to PvE viability, but without increasing their potential spike burst damage to absurd heights. It definitely provides a substantial increase to the DPS of a Transphasic PvE setup over Holodeck potential DPS.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
I could maybe see removing the stack limit altogether, but that pushes people back towards "throw as many projectiles as possible" instead of "focus on big hits on weak shield facings".
At the same time, it's cleared by both Hazard Emitters and Science Team if I'm reading the patch notes correctly, and it's based off of the torpedo's damage to the hull, which if the target wasn't already vulnerable, it won't deal a whole lot of damage, relatively speaking.
On the other hand, without a stack limit, we'll probably see torpedo bomber Scimitars, T'varos, and B'rels unleashing Tricobalt or Gravimetric torp spreads as new STF lightning raiders.
I'll keep a close eye on the stack limit - it was put there mostly to prevent any absurd edge cases I couldn't think of from getting out of hand, and to encourage players to use both projectiles and energy weapons together. I could see raising it to 5 so that a HY barrage doesn't overwrite itself. I could maybe see removing the stack limit altogether, but that pushes people back towards "throw as many projectiles as possible" instead of "focus on big hits on weak shield facings". If nothing else, I could see changing it so that the DoT only gets replaced if it's higher mag than the one it's replacing.
The goal with this trait is to give projectile-centric builds a means of coming closer to PvE viability, but without increasing their potential spike burst damage to absurd heights. It definitely provides a substantial increase to the DPS of a Transphasic PvE setup over Holodeck potential DPS.
One thing I've been waiting years for is a way to be able to use the B'rel Retrofit where I could adequately use it as a torp bomber(when cloaked) and as its standard cannon type build(when decloaked). There are many build setups to use for decloaked/cannons but there isn't much of viability in as a bomber. I am kind of hoping that this one issue could be fixed for many other federation and KDF ships left behind in revamping ships to where they fall in line with how romulan ships were implemented with console sets and maybe console/weapon sets like some of the reps and lobi store stuff have. Best suggestion I could give is to maybe create something that works like subsystem targeting except for torpedoes. Where either by a crit or a specific amount of hits to a specific subsystem would incur X amount of damage to shields or hull maybe completely random to not make it OP but make it a viable way to use strategies to be able to have some real fun with it and take it out of the collectors item area its in now and same thing with the intrepid it needs as much love as the b'rel does IMO anyways.
I'll keep a close eye on the stack limit - it was put there mostly to prevent any absurd edge cases I couldn't think of from getting out of hand, and to encourage players to use both projectiles and energy weapons together. I could see raising it to 5 so that a HY barrage doesn't overwrite itself. I could maybe see removing the stack limit altogether, but that pushes people back towards "throw as many projectiles as possible" instead of "focus on big hits on weak shield facings". If nothing else, I could see changing it so that the DoT only gets replaced if it's higher mag than the one it's replacing.
The goal with this trait is to give projectile-centric builds a means of coming closer to PvE viability, but without increasing their potential spike burst damage to absurd heights. It definitely provides a substantial increase to the DPS of a Transphasic PvE setup over Holodeck potential DPS.
just do something about that 75% base resistance shields have to kinetic damage, that is NOT caped at 75%, and ends up at about 90% after all sources of shield resistance are mathed together.
just capping shield knetic damage to the native 75% would do wonders, 25% damage from a torp hit to shields would actually be slightly noticeable. and it would at least be consistent with the energy res cap.
now that you cant stack HY and spread anymore with that anti double tap cooldowns you added a wile back, you should consider dropping the native resistance much lower, like 35% maybe. because there's no canon precedent that has ever shown torps to be ineffective against shields, that's a made up game play mechanic.
i like that you want to make torps and energy weapon builds more of the default go to style, thats how it should be. but its time to actually address the reason energy and torps together is a form of rainbow build. the magnitude of the built in shield res. and the hundred passives and skills and set bonuses that make shield holes impossible to create, thus invalidating the original game play mechanic.
The goal with this trait is to give projectile-centric builds a means of coming closer to PvE viability, but without increasing their potential spike burst damage to absurd heights.
Now I read that I understand why you did it but I think it need heavily tweaking still. More spike damage is bad but at the same time as a projectile centric build player myself I feel the rep power has failed to do its role. 70% to 80% of my hits have zero procs due to the stack.
There is no point in using it with mines and torpedoes as whichever hits first stops the other one from doing any extra damage. Often my torpedoes would hit so my mines did zero procs. Same problem with the bridge officer skills. What ever I do I end up with 70 to 80% of hits with zero damage boost
Crit chance, crit severity or the old system all give more damage then the new power.
It definitely provides a substantial increase to the DPS of a Transphasic PvE setup over Holodeck potential DPS.
Sorry I strongly disagree as my Transphasic build dropped in damage a lot. My cluster torpedoe instead of having a damage boost to all 10 mines like the old system I had a damage boost to 3 mines, with 7 mines zero damage boost. The rear mines which would have benefited from the proc with 80% shield pen did nothing as the front cluster mines and/or torpedo's already hit the stacking limit. So again rear mine zero damage bonus.
Even with just 2 torpedo's you hit the stacking limit. I can see how single Transphasic torpedo launcher builds gained DPS but projectile-centric builds are not benefiting.
Why is there no talk about the Omega Graviton Amplifiers power which is also useless for torpedo and mine users? The proc chance is to low so you get one proc every 30mins or longer in projectile-centric builds.
just do something about that 75% base resistance shields have to kinetic damage, that is NOT caped at 75%, and ends up at about 90% after all sources of shield resistance are mathed together.
just capping shield knetic damage to the native 75% would do wonders, 25% damage from a torp hit to shields would actually be slightly noticeable. and it would at least be consistent with the energy res cap.
now that you cant stack HY and spread anymore with that anti double tap cooldowns you added a wile back, you should consider dropping the native resistance much lower, like 35% maybe. because there's no canon precedent that has ever shown torps to be ineffective against shields, that's a made up game play mechanic.
i like that you want to make torps and energy weapon builds more of the default go to style, thats how it should be. but its time to actually address the reason energy and torps together is a form of rainbow build. the magnitude of the built in shield res. and the hundred passives and skills and set bonuses that make shield holes impossible to create, thus invalidating the original game play mechanic.
This reminds me why you don't see many b'rels out there since torpedoes pretty much are so ineffective against shields. In the form of a bomber out there which pretty much the little screen time it did have in undiscovered country it never actually showed it using energy weapons at all even though they failed to destroy the enterprise or the excelsior but in comparison in the game. One other thing for the b'rel they could do is make 2 new variants of the b'rel to purchase and give all 3 a torp and 2 consoles that help with this problem and then it could sort of bridge the gap between the KDF having nothing like a vesta or wide angled torp which isn't needed of a wide angle torp if its designed for the b'rel.
Also yeah it is true in canon anyone who debates the actual ineffectiveness against shields as being canon and not just a game play mechanic should watch undiscovered country and see how badly that b'rel did to the enterprise lol. Best money maker though is a b'rel 3 pack to make money off it and bring it up to par because really if you look at it if they did that and fixed this problem at least for the b'rel it would close the majority of the gap up on fed vs kdf content since we have the mogh now and the only real big issue between the factions is the items like the vesta, kumari, and sovy have. So pretty much if that was put into place the only thing KDF would be missing is the aspect of a kumari with 5 tact consoles which easily could be fixed with one raptor that has the option or possible a qin raptor pack on same principle.
You can still stack HY/TS...you just can't stack HY/HY nor TS/TS. HY and TS each provide a 30s, so even with the 15s CD imposed from activating one - you've still got 15s to activate the other. So you can stack HY/TS and let loose...
As it stands now on Holodeck, it's providing a +15% base damage boost. The previous version on Tribble provided a +10% non-base boost. That was a significant boost compared to what is currently on Holo.
It's not a case that additional shots are going to do zero extra damage. They might do worse damage or they might do better damage. They overwrite...so it will be a case of maintaining the 3x SDoTs on the target.
That's not how I see it.
Take my Transphasic build I have x2 Rapid fire torpedo, x2 Cluster torpedo in the front, x2 mines in the rear with disposal pattern alpha+beta . So 1 torpedo spread and I hit the stacking limited. That means the following 16 + rear mines and 10+cluster mines are doing zero extra damage. If I have pattern Alpha running alone side beta that’s another 10 ish mines with no proc.
30 to 40+ hits in short time frame and only 3 procs is a massive damage nerf.
Those 3 procs hits at 15% damage boost are nowhere near as good as those 30 to 40+ hits I get right now on holo at 10% base.
I just do not see how this is anything but a very large damage nerf for torpedo boats.
Sorry I strongly disagree as my Transphasic build dropped in damage a lot. My cluster torpedoe instead of having a damage boost to all 10 mines like the old system I had a damage boost to 3 mines, with 7 mines zero damage boost. The rear mines which would have benefited from the proc with 80% shield pen did nothing as the front cluster mines and/or torpedo's already hit the stacking limit. So again rear mine zero damage bonus.
Even with just 2 torpedo's you hit the stacking limit. I can see how single Transphasic torpedo launcher builds gained DPS but projectile-centric builds are not benefiting.
Why is there no talk about the Omega Graviton Amplifiers power which is also useless for torpedo and mine users? The proc chance is to low so you get one proc every 30mins or longer in projectile-centric builds.
I think that's the point here, if I read Hawk's post correctly. The idea is to encourage a mix of torp and DD if you want to use this trait, so torp centric builds not benefiting would be what's intended. I think the idea is to limit you to one fore and one aft launcher weapon getting the benefit.
That being said, your point on the cluster torp and mine stacks is valid - perhaps if the stack limit gets raised to 5, the cluster torp needs to be reduced to 5 larger mines? It would not solve the Cluster+Mine issue, but at least the cluster itself would still be effective, and for Dispersal Pattern powers to remain useful.
Comments
A torp with "base" damage of 7738.65 hits the target (Typhoon in Empire Defense - Federation).
773.865 damage is done to the hull (standard 10% bleed/penetration vs. 0% damage resistance).
Six hits of 51.591 from the DoT land against the hull for a total of 309.546 damage.
That's 40% of the 773.865 damage that hit the target because of the 10% bleed/penetration.
A torp with "base" damage of 7076.47 hits the target (Borg Repair Hulk in Ker'rat).
7076.47 damage is done to the hull (no shields).
Six hits of 471.765 from the DoT land against the hull for a total of 2830.59 damage.
That's ~40% of the 7076.47 damage that hit the target because of no shields.
Okay, with this one - I'm just going to copy the log...it's a simple 3stack.
14:04:16:05:01:17.2::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Geqsry1,Kinetic,,7931.4,0
14:04:16:05:01:18.2::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,528.76,0
14:04:16:05:01:18.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Kinetic,Critical,17031.5,0
14:04:16:05:01:19.2::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,528.76,0
14:04:16:05:01:19.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,1135.44,0
14:04:16:05:01:20.2::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,528.76,0
14:04:16:05:01:20.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Geqsry1,Kinetic,,7330.3,0
14:04:16:05:01:20.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,1135.44,0
14:04:16:05:01:21.3::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,528.76,0
14:04:16:05:01:21.3::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,757.371,0
14:04:16:05:01:21.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,488.686,0
14:04:16:05:01:21.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,1135.44,0
14:04:16:05:01:22.2::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,528.76,0
14:04:16:05:01:22.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,488.686,0
14:04:16:05:01:22.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,1135.44,0
14:04:16:05:01:23.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,744.288,0
14:04:16:05:01:23.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,528.76,0
14:04:16:05:01:23.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,488.686,0
14:04:16:05:01:24.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,1135.44,0
14:04:16:05:01:24.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,488.686,0
14:04:16:05:01:24.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,664.845,0
14:04:16:05:01:24.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,1135.44,0
14:04:16:05:01:25.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,488.686,0
14:04:16:05:01:26.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Borg Repair Hulk,C[3 Mission_Pve_Repairhub],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,488.686,0
This one shows overwriting. Basically, a new DoT applied overwrites the oldest DoT that was applied. That first 59.7015 DoT did 5ticks before it was replaced by the 56.9101 DoT.
14:04:16:05:07:20.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Shield,,-1732.84,-8059.7
14:04:16:05:07:20.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Kinetic,,895.523,8955.23
14:04:16:05:07:21.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,59.7015,0
14:04:16:05:07:21.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Shield,,-3593.14,-16712.3
14:04:16:05:07:21.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Kinetic,Critical,1856.92,18569.2
14:04:16:05:07:22.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,59.7015,0
14:04:16:05:07:23.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,123.795,0
14:04:16:05:07:23.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,59.7015,0
14:04:16:05:07:23.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Geqsry1,Shield,,-1480.78,-6887.37
14:04:16:05:07:23.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Geqsry1,Kinetic,,765.263,7652.63
14:04:16:05:07:24.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,123.795,0
14:04:16:05:07:24.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,59.7015,0
14:04:16:05:07:24.3::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,731.357,0
14:04:16:05:07:24.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,51.0175,0
14:04:16:05:07:25.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,123.795,0
14:04:16:05:07:25.2::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,59.7015,0
14:04:16:05:07:25.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Shield,,-1651.81,-7682.86
14:04:16:05:07:25.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo,Pn.Kwyekm1,Kinetic,,853.651,8536.51
14:04:16:05:07:25.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,51.0175,0
14:04:16:05:07:26.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,123.795,0
14:04:16:05:07:26.1::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,662.963,0
14:04:16:05:07:26.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,56.9101,0
14:04:16:05:07:26.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,51.0175,0
14:04:16:05:07:27.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,123.795,0
14:04:16:05:07:27.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,56.9101,0
14:04:16:05:07:27.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,123.795,0
14:04:16:05:07:27.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,51.0175,0
14:04:16:05:07:28.0::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,638.15,0
14:04:16:05:07:28.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,56.9101,0
14:04:16:05:07:28.9::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,51.0175,0
14:04:16:05:07:29.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,56.9101,0
14:04:16:05:07:29.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],,*,Bio-Molecular Incubation,Pn.Hbb4da1,Radiation,,751.031,0
14:04:16:05:07:29.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,51.0175,0
14:04:16:05:07:30.8::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,56.9101,0
14:04:16:05:07:31.7::Willard the Rat,P[122244@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[19 Space_Borg_Battleship],Omega Kinetic Shearing,Pn.Eeprdq,Kinetic,,56.9101,0
Wait ... does this mean a Quantum HY would only apply one DoT because the last torpedo fired overwrites the DoTs applied by the other torpedoes? If this is true, single shot HY blobs/tricobalts would gain better results with this trait.
As I understand, if base for this 40% is "damage done to hull", then I see following things:
-Transphasic Torps with best penetration will benefit this buff far more then any other torpedo type, since it is effectively increasing damage done to shielded hull from 40% to 56% (considering OKS as extra penetration) - it is HUGE buff to all transphasic torpedo-boat builds, increasing their DPS by ~30% (not 40%, because of limited stacking).
-Plasma torps will benefit this change much less, since huge part of damage is moved to Plasma Radiation - which, as I understand, is not added to calculated base damage for purpose of OKS bonus.
Is that correct?
One more thing:
Stacking limit of 3 is bad idea because of multiple reasons:
- It is making using multiple torpedoes types difficult, since weak, fast firing torps will overwrite strong buffs applied by heavier torps (for example - Omega Rapid Fire and Tricobalts), and it is effectively limiting number of efficient builds. Players will be forced to stick to torps of similar base damage to hull, because any extra DOT from stronger projectiles will be cleared by DOT of weaker torps.
- multi-torp attacks of T:HY/T:S damage will be weaker then expected. THY3 strike with 4 torps, it mean only 3 DOT will apply, and these DOTs will clear stronger debuffs coming from regular torpedo attacks (because single torpedo from THY3 is significantly weaker then regular torpedo)
Now that is a fix we were waiting for years!
Not sure it is a buff if anything its a large nerf. You do less damage per shot and 80%+ of the shots will not do any extra damage due to the stack limit. Instead of getting a damage boost for all mines and torpedoes we now end up with 80% of mines and torpedoes getting zero damage boost due to the stack limit.
That is now two torpedo and mine powers made next to useless for torpedoes and mines. Omega Graviton Amplifiers is pretty much useless and now this Omega Kinetic Shearing. :mad:
Omega Kinetic Shearing is incompatible with torpedo skills or mine skills like disposable pattern beta. Weapons like the cluster torpedo will not gain much damage as 80% of the mines will do zero extra damage with zero proc. Same for disposable pattern no more extra damage.
EDIT: It is not a 40% damage boost because your 4th,5th, 6th and so on shots are going to do zero extra damage. So in fact you do less damage then in the old system as at least in the old system every shot boosted damage.
Yeah, nerf a trait that's usefull for almost all builds and give us something that's not only too complicated but also quite feeble compared to other abilities. I'd never use this trait on any of my builds, that's for sure.
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My thoughts exactly, everytime I think they can't TRIBBLE me off anymore with this rep revamp BS they find a new way to make sure I don't want to play the game. The prior omega weapons trait was a great trait for any build, now its only useful for those who use torpedos, which outside of pvp anyone who uses torpedos is just gimping themselves. This trait won't change the fact that torpedos are weak and useless in all PvE.
Last time I looked it was pretty useless for people who use torpedo's and mines. Any torpedo or mine boat will be crazy to waste a slot on this. Due to the way it stacks 80%+ of your hits get zero extra damage. Its a horrible change. The changes are really putting me off the rep system. The few powers that used to be good for my builds have all been made useless.
Incompatibility to Torpedo/Mine skills is very bad idea. IMO Stack limit should be removed, it will fix most of these problems. Torps and mines are underused anyway, I see no reason of penalting players who wish to use any of following:
- Two or more torpedoes with largely differing base damage (like Omega Rapid Fire + Tricobalt)
- T:HY/H:S
- Multiple launchers allowing to fire more then 3 torps/6 seconds
- Projectile DOFFS allowing to fire more then 3 torps/6 seconds
Please remember this DoT is removed by BOTH Hazard Emitters AND Science Team - it is very hard to find a ship without at least one of these abilities (My HEC use both of them + 2x DOFF reducing ST cooldown to 15s - and it is pure escort with only 1 LT Scence slot).
Only problem with this passive is stacking limit, removing this TRIBBLE will fix it. Torps/mines definitely need more attention, and it is step in good direction. Remove the limit and it is OK.
Why the heck are people still playing this game, if they are making these HORRIBLE changes and nerfs.
...and if no one likes these changes, WHY are they going through with them?
I don't understand the logic here.
I really don't know, but if it didn't say "Star Trek" on the cover, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be here.
Bad thought,...thinking they can't tick us off anymore.
No more rep system for me either, (I skipped Nukara as it is), they'll just move the carrot onto a longer stick, and when you finally do reach it, they'll cut the carrot in half.
What's the point? I'll just have to live with the 3 out of 4 active reputation traits.
(Practicing self-nerfing as to not give an unfair advantage to anyone...lol).
Perhaps I could give away all the passives I earned, but can no longer use. (Or perhaps give them to one of my two alts that won't be doing any rep).
Bugs?.... hehe, that's a lost cause. No one wants that job.....and it's apparently too hard to just do it right the first time.
At least with this season, it looks like I might actually be able to log on without crashing like the first missed month of season 8.
Logging on is good,...well kinda.
Deceiver's Lair Fleet
That's a nice little surprise.
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Because according to a certain segment of their audiences every game in the history of the medium (that has had significant post-launch updates and support, or you can simply consider the matter across multiple releases of a single franchise) makes progressively more terrible changes as its lifespan goes on. Why? Well it's not because of what they're doing but where we set our standards. However these changes turn out, the process of change makes us scared and confused simply on the point that it's different [and to our habitual playstyle that's the worst thing imaginable].
Speaking to my own standards, I like what cryptic is doing. Some of it is a bother but the end result is a game with just a little more depth than there was before. I see that there's a hill we have to climb (ie. gotta work out an optimal trait scheme, gotta acquire a new kit) but I also see there's an acceptable payoff on the other side (better combat through more and more sensible stat/ability customization systems.) Hell, I even like the omega torp sheer ability (because I suspect that it's going to make torpedo combat a whole lot more interesting, even if DPS generally dips a tiny fraction because of the substitution.)
Why are people still playing this game? Because there's been a good number of similar changes in the past and however that's faired with the more entrenched its given the others more to play with and more to play for.
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Changes Are Op, Plz Nerf
While overall I would agree with more torpedo damage, this shearing ability seems a bit... badly implemented.
Why cant they just flat out boost torpedo damage, rather than to add this easy to bug up dot system?
i am just getting really tired of needing a graduate degree in math to figure what the buffs even do... a 2% chance of X that ignores 5% of Y and can only stack 5x in a 30 sec period if the moon is a waning crescent.
At least in the old system it was just obvious which power was useless to you even if you really didn't know how it worked.
That aside, what really needs to be addressed is the the fact I no longer trust the devs and wont be grinding stuff out anymore.
How do we know any changes they make will last 6 months or even a year. How many times has omega rep changed and how much time and enjoyment have you lost grinding and REGRINDING various aspects of it. Romulan rep is about a year old, Dyson isn't even and they are already tweaking and changing it. They just added spire kits and couple of months later you more or less wasted your time and money buying one. Grinding is they are offering and there is now no guarantee you will even get to keep what you grinded for more than a couple of weeks
Actually I heard Spire kits will be better than the new fleet kits.
SO if the powers in the kits now are good, I think its wise to buy them now.
I, too, wondered if transphasics would now encroach upon the territory of plasma, but I haven't crunched the numbers to check. Keep in mind the T2 Nukara passive "Enhanced Shield Penetration" grants +5% shield penetration. Of course, with the stack limit of 3, the new passive might not be that strong anyway.
4th DoT replaces 1st DoT. 5th replaces 2nd. 6th replaces 3rd. 7th replaces 4th. etc, etc, etc.
So if somebody landed a HY Targetable instead of a HY Salvo...if three torps hit within the ~6s duration, the third one (would actually be the 4th) would overwrite the DoT from that HY Targetable.
Even if you were running a mix of torps with fast hitters and heavy hitters, those lower damage fast hitters that were likely being used for CD reduction on the heavy hitters...will overwrite the shearing from the heavy hitters with their weaker shearing.
Would have to check the numbers, but what you say there - well, would have to work out the numbers but it sounds reasonable. Have to keep in mind the actual base damage of the torps when looking at it.
For example, with the Transphasics...
vs. normal shields, they're doing 46% of their damage to hull instead of 10%
vs. resilient shields, they're doing 43% of their damage to hull instead of 5%
Trans have a base damage of 978 vs. say the base damage of 1503 of a Quant.
978 * 0.46 = 449.88 * 0.4 = 179.952 /6
1503 * 0.10 = 150.3 * 0.4 = 60.12 /6
Say we toss 9 Weapon, 9 Projectile, 3x ATVx specific, VR Mk XII weapon, and either KHG/Breen...no other buffs.
Trans: ~4426.7 * 0.46 = 2036.282 *0.4 = 814.5128 /6
Quant: ~6726.5 * 0.10 = 672.65 * 0.4 = 269.06 /6
There's a bit of room for play, so to speak...but basically it's in the range of the Trans doing ~3x the DoT that the Quant would do vs. shielded targets. On the other hand though, the Quant will do ~1.5x the DoT vs. unshielded targets that the Trans would.
Which kind of goes back to the overwriting thing...if somebody thought to carry both.
vs. shielded, the weaker Quant SDoTs could overwrite the stronger Trans SDoTs
vs. unshielded, the weaker Trans SDoTs could overwrite the stronger Quant SDoTs
As for Plasma, yep - with the lower actual base damage (1061), they would drop out a weaker SDoT than say a Quant...but they'd also have their PDoT going. Would have to combine the two...can't remember a PDoT value off hand...meh.
Yep, that second part...hadn't thought about that with the HY Salvos and Spreads. Looking at the tooltip over on Tribble...
Normal Torp: 8127.6
TS3 Torp: 4773.9x4
HY3 Torp: 6033.2x4
...oh joy, eh?
As it stands now on Holodeck, it's providing a +15% base damage boost. The previous version on Tribble provided a +10% non-base boost. That was a significant boost compared to what is currently on Holo.
It's not a case that additional shots are going to do zero extra damage. They might do worse damage or they might do better damage. They overwrite...so it will be a case of maintaining the 3x SDoTs on the target.
Going with a RoF of ~1/1.5s with a DoT that ticks ~1/1s is a little rough; but one could break it down to it basically being a single tick boost per torp, eh? So we're basically looking at a 6.67% non-base boost to hull damage compared to the current +15% base boost to hull & shield damage.
So going back to our Quant torps from earlier in this post.
Holo Passive (+15% base): 6726.5 + (1503 * 0.15) = 6951.95 * 0.1 = 695.195
Tribble Passive (+6.67% non-base - hull): 6726.5 * 0.1 = 672.65; 672.65 * 0.4 = 269.06 / 6 = 44.84; 672.65 + 44.84 = 717.49
It's actually a boost to the hull damage.
And looking at the Trans from earlier.
Holo Passive (+15% base): 4426.7 + (978 * 0.15) = 4573.4 * 0.46 = 2103.764
Tribble Passive (+6.67% non-base - hull): 4426.7 * 0.46 = 2036.282; 4426.7 * 0.46 = 2036.282 *0.4 = 814.5128 / 6 = 135.752; 2036.282 + 135.752 = 2172.034
Again, it's a boost to the hull damage.
Yes, it's a nerf to the Trait for Energy Weapons (doesn't affect them) - but it's a buff for Projectile Weapons...damage to hull.
There's still going to be the issues with stacking/overwriting and using weapon buffs resulting in lower damage.
The T2 only affects directed energy attacks...meh, I keep bugging Cryptic to show Projectiles some love with this.
I'll keep a close eye on the stack limit - it was put there mostly to prevent any absurd edge cases I couldn't think of from getting out of hand, and to encourage players to use both projectiles and energy weapons together. I could see raising it to 5 so that a HY barrage doesn't overwrite itself. I could maybe see removing the stack limit altogether, but that pushes people back towards "throw as many projectiles as possible" instead of "focus on big hits on weak shield facings". If nothing else, I could see changing it so that the DoT only gets replaced if it's higher mag than the one it's replacing.
The goal with this trait is to give projectile-centric builds a means of coming closer to PvE viability, but without increasing their potential spike burst damage to absurd heights. It definitely provides a substantial increase to the DPS of a Transphasic PvE setup over Holodeck potential DPS.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
At the same time, it's cleared by both Hazard Emitters and Science Team if I'm reading the patch notes correctly, and it's based off of the torpedo's damage to the hull, which if the target wasn't already vulnerable, it won't deal a whole lot of damage, relatively speaking.
On the other hand, without a stack limit, we'll probably see torpedo bomber Scimitars, T'varos, and B'rels unleashing Tricobalt or Gravimetric torp spreads as new STF lightning raiders.
One thing I've been waiting years for is a way to be able to use the B'rel Retrofit where I could adequately use it as a torp bomber(when cloaked) and as its standard cannon type build(when decloaked). There are many build setups to use for decloaked/cannons but there isn't much of viability in as a bomber. I am kind of hoping that this one issue could be fixed for many other federation and KDF ships left behind in revamping ships to where they fall in line with how romulan ships were implemented with console sets and maybe console/weapon sets like some of the reps and lobi store stuff have. Best suggestion I could give is to maybe create something that works like subsystem targeting except for torpedoes. Where either by a crit or a specific amount of hits to a specific subsystem would incur X amount of damage to shields or hull maybe completely random to not make it OP but make it a viable way to use strategies to be able to have some real fun with it and take it out of the collectors item area its in now and same thing with the intrepid it needs as much love as the b'rel does IMO anyways.
just do something about that 75% base resistance shields have to kinetic damage, that is NOT caped at 75%, and ends up at about 90% after all sources of shield resistance are mathed together.
just capping shield knetic damage to the native 75% would do wonders, 25% damage from a torp hit to shields would actually be slightly noticeable. and it would at least be consistent with the energy res cap.
now that you cant stack HY and spread anymore with that anti double tap cooldowns you added a wile back, you should consider dropping the native resistance much lower, like 35% maybe. because there's no canon precedent that has ever shown torps to be ineffective against shields, that's a made up game play mechanic.
i like that you want to make torps and energy weapon builds more of the default go to style, thats how it should be. but its time to actually address the reason energy and torps together is a form of rainbow build. the magnitude of the built in shield res. and the hundred passives and skills and set bonuses that make shield holes impossible to create, thus invalidating the original game play mechanic.
There is no point in using it with mines and torpedoes as whichever hits first stops the other one from doing any extra damage. Often my torpedoes would hit so my mines did zero procs. Same problem with the bridge officer skills. What ever I do I end up with 70 to 80% of hits with zero damage boost
Crit chance, crit severity or the old system all give more damage then the new power.
Sorry I strongly disagree as my Transphasic build dropped in damage a lot. My cluster torpedoe instead of having a damage boost to all 10 mines like the old system I had a damage boost to 3 mines, with 7 mines zero damage boost. The rear mines which would have benefited from the proc with 80% shield pen did nothing as the front cluster mines and/or torpedo's already hit the stacking limit. So again rear mine zero damage bonus.
Even with just 2 torpedo's you hit the stacking limit. I can see how single Transphasic torpedo launcher builds gained DPS but projectile-centric builds are not benefiting.
Why is there no talk about the Omega Graviton Amplifiers power which is also useless for torpedo and mine users? The proc chance is to low so you get one proc every 30mins or longer in projectile-centric builds.
This reminds me why you don't see many b'rels out there since torpedoes pretty much are so ineffective against shields. In the form of a bomber out there which pretty much the little screen time it did have in undiscovered country it never actually showed it using energy weapons at all even though they failed to destroy the enterprise or the excelsior but in comparison in the game. One other thing for the b'rel they could do is make 2 new variants of the b'rel to purchase and give all 3 a torp and 2 consoles that help with this problem and then it could sort of bridge the gap between the KDF having nothing like a vesta or wide angled torp which isn't needed of a wide angle torp if its designed for the b'rel.
Also yeah it is true in canon anyone who debates the actual ineffectiveness against shields as being canon and not just a game play mechanic should watch undiscovered country and see how badly that b'rel did to the enterprise lol. Best money maker though is a b'rel 3 pack to make money off it and bring it up to par because really if you look at it if they did that and fixed this problem at least for the b'rel it would close the majority of the gap up on fed vs kdf content since we have the mogh now and the only real big issue between the factions is the items like the vesta, kumari, and sovy have. So pretty much if that was put into place the only thing KDF would be missing is the aspect of a kumari with 5 tact consoles which easily could be fixed with one raptor that has the option or possible a qin raptor pack on same principle.
You can still stack HY/TS...you just can't stack HY/HY nor TS/TS. HY and TS each provide a 30s, so even with the 15s CD imposed from activating one - you've still got 15s to activate the other. So you can stack HY/TS and let loose...
Take my Transphasic build I have x2 Rapid fire torpedo, x2 Cluster torpedo in the front, x2 mines in the rear with disposal pattern alpha+beta . So 1 torpedo spread and I hit the stacking limited. That means the following 16 + rear mines and 10+cluster mines are doing zero extra damage. If I have pattern Alpha running alone side beta that’s another 10 ish mines with no proc.
30 to 40+ hits in short time frame and only 3 procs is a massive damage nerf.
Those 3 procs hits at 15% damage boost are nowhere near as good as those 30 to 40+ hits I get right now on holo at 10% base.
I just do not see how this is anything but a very large damage nerf for torpedo boats.
I think that's the point here, if I read Hawk's post correctly. The idea is to encourage a mix of torp and DD if you want to use this trait, so torp centric builds not benefiting would be what's intended. I think the idea is to limit you to one fore and one aft launcher weapon getting the benefit.
That being said, your point on the cluster torp and mine stacks is valid - perhaps if the stack limit gets raised to 5, the cluster torp needs to be reduced to 5 larger mines? It would not solve the Cluster+Mine issue, but at least the cluster itself would still be effective, and for Dispersal Pattern powers to remain useful.