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Forums > Home› Feedback› PvP Gameplay

Why do some premates use so much cheese?

teuteburgteuteburg Member Posts: 91 Arc User
edited April 2014 in PvP Gameplay
Hi!

Yesterday we fought a PvP-Fleet (I do not name names though), and:
Oh my god! They had every Spam they could mount onto their Ships!
Tif, AMS, Scramble (with Doff), Black-Hole, Graviton Pulse Generator... Most
of those things even twice or more . They did not field Yellowstones simply
because they did not have a Ship with a Hangar :)
WHY?

Do some premates really need to spam the arenas?
Are those teams too weak to play in a polite manner?

Many ppl complain about certain Consoles/doff's and strong premates
abuse them? Why?

We (as premates) should show the others skill and not spam!

Greetz Siegfried

PS: It was no private challenge, we q'ed!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by teuteburg on
«13456

Comments

  • notrealednanotrealedna Member Posts: 1,028
    edited March 2014
    if premates do that you should see how much cheese premades use .
  • eisenw0lfeisenw0lf Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    They probably watched too much DS9. "In war there is nothing more honorable than victory" as Worf put it.

    On a serious note, I am also sick of these people. They think it's fun to roflstomp another team (preferably an unsuspecting PuG). Season 9 though will soon always pit them against another premade. This is most likely the reason why some people are so furiously against the upcoming changes to the PvP queues: They may get a taste of their own cheese in the near future.
  • grandpadxxgrandpadxx Member Posts: 342
    edited March 2014
    teuteburg wrote: »
    Hi!

    Yesterday we fought a PvP-Fleet (I do not name names though), and:
    Oh my god! They had every Spam they could mount onto their Ships!
    Tif, AMS, Scramble (with Doff), Black-Hole, Graviton Pulse Generator... Most
    of those things even twice or more . They did not field Yellowstones simply
    because they did not have a Ship with a Hangar :)
    WHY?

    Do some premates really need to spam the arenas?
    Are those teams too weak to play in a polite manner?

    Many ppl complain about certain Consoles/doff's and strong premates
    abuse them? Why?

    We (as premates) should show the others skill and not spam!

    Greetz Siegfried

    PS: It was no private challenge, we q'ed!



    Hey Dude,..


    yeah thats the Problem with some Guys.. they cant play without this spam and think they are cool, if they win with that BS.

    We all now it better.. this people have no guts to play without P2W.


    Its really really bad for Peaople to started PvP.. they play one match and finish. :mad:


    eisenw0lf wrote: »
    They probably watched too much DS9. "In war there is nothing more honorable than victory" a They may get a taste of their own cheese in the near future.


    Yeah.. its easy to find them and intercept the guys in the Future. That will be fine. ;)

    capthachi wrote: »
    Made me laugh.


    We laugh about you and your P2W-SPAM-NOGUTS-CHEEAS Team.

    We still punished your Team every Week.. without this BS. ;)




    greetings
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    T'lilu SCI. / Dxxdavid TAK. / STO Inner Circle
    *** R.I.P. ***
  • capthachicapthachi Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    notrealedna wrote: »
    if premates do that you should see how much cheese premades use .

    Made me laugh.

    Edit: T'lilu seems a little mad about something, cant quite place my finger on what it is...
    -TaylorSwift - PvPs most hated sci
    -LindseyLohan - Under appreciated Rom Bug
    -EmiliaClarke - Under construction engi recluse
  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Nerf all Premates with cheese!
    maxvitor wrote: »
    Nerf is OP, plz nerf
    That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.

    I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Well, there's nothing that stops them from bringing 'cheese'. No balancing mechanism or anything.

    And just playing devil's advocate, some 'cheese' is subjective. Almost every fleet in existence has done it at one time or another.

    I don't like such behaviour myself, but I can't do anything about it. Just have to grin and bear it. They'll just tell us to 'adapt or die', 'it's in the game so I use it', 'I paid for it so I can use it', or some other tired old cliche.

    Maybe I should trot out the old 'what is cheese to you' survey I did the December before LoR. I'd probably have to make it waaay longer than before, though.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Another proof that riptilians are better.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Cheese is less of an issue with the removal of shared CD on team abilitiess. Now you can just clear it and then kill them--cheeseboats dont usually have a lot of power, and have to kill you slowly, which is impossible when you can clear the cheese and turn around to kill them.

    Spamming is a problem with the overall gameplay design that emphasizes pokemon abilities over basic weapon combat. Power drains would fix some of it. Forcing captains to pick N number of abilities as personal powers would fix some of it too.
    [img]http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x57/UrsusMorologus/MechWarrior Online/Catapult_K2 sig.jpg[/img]
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    scurry5 wrote: »
    Well, there's nothing that stops them from bringing 'cheese'. No balancing mechanism or anything.

    And just playing devil's advocate, some 'cheese' is subjective. Almost every fleet in existence has done it at one time or another.

    I don't like such behaviour myself, but I can't do anything about it. Just have to grin and bear it. They'll just tell us to 'adapt or die', 'it's in the game so I use it', 'I paid for it so I can use it', or some other tired old cliche.

    Maybe I should trot out the old 'what is cheese to you' survey I did the December before LoR. I'd probably have to make it waaay longer than before, though.

    Agreed on many points, Scurry.

    Indeed on saying cheese is subjective. I've been telling that to the more recent PvP Bootcamp classes.

    *chuckles* Yeah, gotta love those worn out reasons for it. I just see it as legitimizing whatever tactic I am using, especially if I know that they don't like it. Such things can be turned on the person saying them.

    Ooh yeah, I remember that thread. You should certainly remake it, Scurry, even if it is longer.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    A mime is a terrible thing to waste
    pwlaughingtrendy wrote:
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2014
    Plenty of cheese out there, then again, some consider normal sci abilities cheese. I laugh every time someones shields go completely down due to normal sci abilities and the person panics and starts using everything possible to get them back up.

    BTW - Primates with cheese meme was awesome.
  • inexplicabletiminexplicabletim Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Romulan toons = cheese
  • gurugeorgegurugeorge Member Posts: 421 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    There's always that distinction re. PvP players between those who play for honour/fun and those who play to win - and never the twain shall meet. (There's something analogous in PvE too, but it's more obvious in PvP.)

    For the latter, the cheese-barrier is quite high (it has to be really outrageous, i.e. actually broken in the sense the devs would agree it's broken, to be looked down on), otherwise you use whatever the game allows you to use, in order to win, winning being the main point of playing.

    For the former, anything that gives any edge to one side in terms of numbers/neat tricks, and doesn't flatten the playing field so that player skill is all that counts (i.e. so that both sides are perfectly equal, like in Chess), is cheese. For the former, the main point is having an exciting, close match.

    One solution is of course for everyone to use cheese :)

    It reminds me of the need/greed thing, and also larger economic arguments. If everyone followed the need/greed rule it would be really cool in that people would get appropriate gear more often; but since one bad apple spoils the barrel, eventually it becomes expedient to fall in with the crowd and need all the time, to re-even the playing field.

    All that's lost, really, is one particular vision of a way to play.
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Ooh yeah, I remember that thread. You should certainly remake it, Scurry, even if it is longer.

    Hmm, I guess I will then. Look forward to it soon.........

    Oh, and apparently my memory failed hard, because it was actually done early May last year. Almost a year back, so I guess it's time I did another.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Does anyone not know what fleet is being talked about here lol.

    They just do it because they aren't very experienced and this is their way of not losing to pugs anymore. Kind of lame to do it so much in arena, I save my cheese for kerrat.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2014
    I got plenty of cheese thrown my way last night by what was clearly a premade team. The rampant use of AMS and the black goo console just ruins a good match.
  • blessedladyboyblessedladyboy Member Posts: 349 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I don't mind a sprinkling of parmesan, but scramble sensor with doff really cheeses me off!
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I'll just leave this here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CasualCompetitiveConflict
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • ilhanskilhansk Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    "For another, the Jem'Hadar attack ship, rather than the Defiant-class, is generally considered the best escort available to Starfleet. This leads to massive b*itching from people who wish their favorite TV-canon ship was better. "

    lol
    Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some STO pew pew PVP action!

  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    scurry5 wrote: »
    Hmm, I guess I will then. Look forward to it soon.........

    Oh, and apparently my memory failed hard, because it was actually done early May last year. Almost a year back, so I guess it's time I did another.

    I thought it was a bit more recent, but wasn't sure.

    Anywho, I shall indeed look forward to it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    A mime is a terrible thing to waste
    pwlaughingtrendy wrote:
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    blessedladyboy wrote: »
    I don't mind a sprinkling of parmesan, but scramble sensor with doff really cheeses me off!
    I totally know what you mean, they Gouda Brie sooo much better without!
    maxvitor wrote: »
    Nerf is OP, plz nerf
    That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.

    I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
  • grandpadxxgrandpadxx Member Posts: 342
    edited March 2014
    marc8219 wrote: »

    Does anyone not know what fleet is being talked about here lol.


    I'm not sure..

    I forgot the Name of this Fleet..

    I think the Name was like


    " Vice Scrambles " ....


    oh nono.. thats wrong.. i got it..



    " Vice Spamers " ..



    oh **** thats also wrong.... maybe



    " Vice Blackholes "



    Dammit, i can't remember.


    Please help me out. ;)



    greetings
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    T'lilu SCI. / Dxxdavid TAK. / STO Inner Circle
    *** R.I.P. ***
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2014
    grandpadxx wrote: »
    I'm not sure..

    I forgot the Name of this Fleet..

    I think the Name was like


    " Vice Scrambles " ....


    oh nono.. thats wrong.. i got it..



    " Vice Spamers " ..



    oh **** thats also wrong.... maybe



    " Vice Blackholes "



    Dammit, i can't remember.


    Please help me out. ;)



    greetings

    Vice Squad is OP, please nerf.:D
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited March 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • gooddaytodie39gooddaytodie39 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Why do premades use so much cheese? Because they can. Because they want to win at any cost. Simple.
  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    starwrathforever wrote: »
    So guys, enjoy the roflstomping, improve your build and keybinds, do your best...and always say...evul Klinguns!:D
    All hail starwrathforever, our inspirational cheese monger! :D
    maxvitor wrote: »
    Nerf is OP, plz nerf
    That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.

    I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited March 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • midwayacemidwayace Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Perhaps something is lost in translation here.....

    You go into a PvP to fight an enemy.... unless you set up a private pre-made that says cannons and beams only you can end up fighting almost any kind of ship with any kind of equipment.

    FYI guys there is more to the game than PEW/PEW..... strategy is just part of the game. You can't fight against science skills or SPAM? Or your ship gets disabled by a smart pilot of a EW ship? Well guess they get tired of your speed tank AUX2BAT build and built something to combat it out of their resources.

    Someone is always going to have better equipment period. There are teams that practice combat tactics. The notion that we all fly phasers and photon torpedoes on Federation ships is crazy. Cryptic has made this an arms race for the min/maxers so there is no reason to complain.

    Not all of us can afford a Scimitar with all purple equipment and doffs and Rommie boffs that unbalance the game. Nor can all of us have bug ships with shield penetration weapons. So we play with what we have....

    If my consoles can stop you from using your uber shield penetrating weapons on me why shouldn't I do everything to survive?

    By the way Electronics Warfare is the way the military of every nation fights. So why do you think space battles should be any different?
  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    starwrathforever wrote: »
    LMAO! Do you think I can make money with all this cheese?:P
    You don't ask what the cheese can do for you, but what YOU can do for the cheese!! :cool:
    maxvitor wrote: »
    Nerf is OP, plz nerf
    That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.

    I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Hello OP. I wasnt there but I know which fleet you are likely talking about.

    Here is something to think about...

    1. If your character has pointy ears and the operative trait, you have no room to complain.

    2. If your character cloaks to avoid death, you have no room to complain.

    3. If your character uses ANY universal console of any kind, you have no room to complain.

    4. If any ship or piece of equipment you own came out of a lockbox or the lobi store you have no room to complain.

    5. if you use FAW in any way, you have no room to complain.

    6. if your character has any sort of elite hangar, you have no room to complain.


    Shall I continue? All of the above fit MY criteria for potential cheese.

    Back before we joined Vice, my group of guys ran into Vice. They ticked us off with their cheese. So much in fact that we put together a five man team with at least 5 universal consoles per toon, all science captains, most in temporal ships with TIF. For an entire weekend we destroyed every team in the queues with pure cheesy darkside goodness.

    We got accused of destroying PvP forever as a result, but we were by no means the ones who started the great cheese war of 2013. In fact, I personally run pretty clean builds most of the time (exception being my recluse healer).

    The fact is, if we didnt do it, you would. Someone we queue against would. The sheer hypocrisy of the forums is ridiculous. "You cant do that, only we can" sort of nonsense.

    If we win it was because of the cheese.

    If we lose its because our opponent was better than us.

    Thats what everyone crutches on, but its a bald faced lie really. People dont like to lose and will use every excuse there is to justify why they were TRIBBLE that day.

    "It was the cheese"

    "Damned faw spammers"

    "Youre hacking"

    "Youd never beat me 1v1" (lol)

    "Youre only a pro team if you can beat another team under specific predefined conditions in which we limit what you can use, by the way we wont be limiting our advantage in the slightest" (lol)



    We will continue to do what it is that we do. Get on teamspeak, see who is on, put together whoever we have, and queue up. Whether we run clean, dirty, megacheese, or TaylorSwifthaxlevel, whoever loses to us will cry in OPvP or in Zone. Or ragequit. We are used to it. Damn shame really.
    Gold.jpg
    Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
    Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
    Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited March 2014
    This content has been removed.
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