Ships had 8 passives. Now they'll have 4 passives. I'm not sure what else you'd call that. You may like the new setup, but that doesn't change that it is a nerf.
Yes, but the passives have been doubled. So it's a net wash.
The real hurt will come when more reps are added.
However fixing the power creep is a good thing.
I don't mind dumping the Rom active power on my eng eventually, it's practically useless on him anyway.
This is all really good feedback, and we're happy to look at any Reputation Trait that feels underwhelming in the new system and make sure it's up to snuff. We want them all to feel really potent.
I don't think increasing the number of slots really meets the system revamp's goal of containing power creep or making Reputation trait choices more interesting and fulfilling to make, but as I think I wrote in the blog, everything is still up for discussion pending playtest feedback on Tribble.
I strongly recommend you do up the slots to 8 ground and 8 space.
As mentioned repeatedly in the thread so far, it allows everyone to keep what they have already earned.
But at the same time puts a hard cap that you can work around and does contain the power creep.
Naturally you would keep the powers as they are now instead of being "buffed".
Everyone agrees the power creep in the game is rampant.
No one wants to accept a nerf.
Forums in action, folks.
Taking away stuff from long term players is just a bad idea.
Even worse then the initial idea to give it to them.
I mean is there really no one at Cryptic thinking ahead? Have they so little trust in their game that the idea of more then four Reputations did never occure to them?
Or had they so much trust in their team that they thought by then they would dropped the Reps and come up with something... new?
Implement a broken system with no future... then realize it and hurt your long term customers when trying to fix it.
That's just foolish.
I really think the new system is good. But it should have been that way from the start.
Now, the only thing they are proving is that they are going to take away stuff from us no matter how long we grinded for it.
THAT is the true problem. THAT is the thing which will make me thing thrice before I start a new grind... if someone at Cryptic has a bad day, the stuff is gone anyways...
This is all really good feedback, and we're happy to look at any Reputation Trait that feels underwhelming in the new system and make sure it's up to snuff. We want them all to feel really potent.
I don't think increasing the number of slots really meets the system revamp's goal of containing power creep or making Reputation trait choices more interesting and fulfilling to make, but as I think I wrote in the blog, everything is still up for discussion pending playtest feedback on Tribble.
Task Force Omega
Tier 3
- Replaced the "Rotating Weapon Frequency" power with "Omega Graviton Pulse Module". This new power causes all of your ground weapon attacks to have a 5% chance to deal additional kinetic damage with 100% shield penetration. This damage is doubled against Borg.
I just busted my but to get this trait, for I thought it would be a great passive. It is very handy.
the rep system was a work around for the dev's to avoid raising the lvl cap now it is backfiring. so keep the rep as they are and raise the freaking lvl cap!
I dont want to have to think about my stupid powers and if i need to change them I just want to play. and int he end only a FEW of the current powers actually are worth anything and every new power has been stupid or aimed at the current baddie of the seasons. keep this up and you will lose every player in this game, and you lies of oh we have TRIBBLE players. wont help your PR.
We have already proposed perfect solutions that solves both sides of the issue.
Expanding the slots to 8 ground and 8 space lets everyone keep what they already have and prevents rampant power creep in the process.
No no no no.
All this would do is change nothing at all.
We had an old Skill tree that used to let you spend ALL you points in ground or space... it forced people to either have ground or space toons.
Now with people being able to just change them when ever how would that change anything at all.
So I trait full space most of the time when I go to the ground I switch it around to full ground.... lol
That changes nothing over the current system accept force you to make a few mouse clicks when you change maps.
My worry isn't so much that now we'll be forced to choose as now there won't be as much choice.
Someone will math out the best powers (probably the critical hit and critical damage ones) and then everyone who knows what they're doing will take them.
Bingo. "Diversity" will disappear within 24 hrs of this hitting Holodeck and everyone taking the best traits to max DPS.
I have eight characters, 6 of them have maxed all the reps. The remaining two might as well only do Omega rep and T1/T2 of Rom if this goes live. Maybe T1/T2 of Dyson. No sense in doing anymore of them.
The suggestion of keeping it at 8/8/4 so nothing currently gained is lost and then allowing us to choose going forward to swap rep traits as we please would be a much smarter way to go.
So it seems a lot of people are agreeing with what i tossed out which again is simply.
Keep all rep traits as they are now (no buffs to existing, ones that are being completely changed is okay)
8 Ground passives, 8 space passives, 4 actives. Exactly the same as what we currently have.
For every future rep you'd have to drop a trait to gain a trait, and we already know that there will be two reps this year most likely one in S9 and one in S10 which would bring another 4 ground, 4 space and 2 actives.
at the absolute minimum drop it to 6 ground/space passives and 4 actives.
Also the concept of being able to switch them at any time out of combat is just absolutely insanely stupid and is the dumbest thing i've heard of in any game ever. Your practically allowing cheating with this.
I toss all DPS stuff on, decloak and take out a bunch of stuff, recloak and toss on all defense and hull healing to helo heal myself and back and forth. Now that is stupid.
The change here should be the same as the loadouts, you can't change your rep choices in any 'combat' map so only in sector space and public maps like ESD. in New Romulus and Nukara you would just simply have to go beam back up to your ship to make changes and them beam back down. But i shouldn't be able to change these on the fly in any map that is insane.
Now with 4 that's basically required, but with 6 or 8 it won't be and you can change it to that we can only change them on non-combat maps.
Been saying for ages that the number of powers should be limited but really hate that it will likely need a store purchase to repsec out of these very limited selections available at any one time.
It's free. Super-free.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
So what? STF's are "old" content.
Its only natural that new content makes old content easier, thats how MMO's work.
Typical MMO's have a gear/content progression system in play which includes regular increases in the level cap.
You run Content A to get Gear X so you can run Content B to get Gear Y so you can run Content C to get Gear Z...level cap increase...you run Content A to get Gear X so...etc, etc, etc.
STO has neither the gear checks nor level cap increase schedule.
It's a more accessible game. It's a more casual game.
my 2 cents in this...although currently they no longer represent the 2 cents we thought they did...
What power creep are people referring too??? You mean the abilities that EVERYONE can get with some time and effort??
This was yet another unneeded change..you want to stop power creep??? I suggest looking at the cstore first....
this change makes me have the feeling to unsub my lifetime membership...not that it would matter to anyone at the studios or anyone else here.... but hey it was my 2 cents well spent....
I now give them to cryptic and the rest of the community....but now you have to choose which one even though you earned both...
This is a smart design decision, and a good time to implement it (before any more reputations with big benefits are added). Build diversity is a good thing, and being able to change as needed, FOR FREE, is another plus.
My hope is that we will be able to set and save Reputation Trait loadouts, so that we can move easily and quickly from Anti-Borg to Pure DPS to Anti-Undine without a lot of delay.
-This will make new reputation powers obsolete, unless the new reputations have gear or powers so much powerful than those of previous reputations added before.
-Taking stuff away from players is never a really good PR move. -This will of course open up "Buy more reputation trait slots" . Yes, others called that already.
-This does lessen the grind, since it makes having more than 2 reputations maxed out pretty useless.
Personal perspective:
-I am having what I worked for weeks on end taken away from me. I'm being robbed here.
-However..... I wont have to grind reputations anymore, they arent worth it.
Now, I feel a bit violated by this. Honestly, whoever came up with this should be fired immediately, because he or she does not qualify to work in the gaming industry, and should find employment elsewhere.
I'll be sure to tell everybody i know to stop buying zen.
Regarding the emphasized part, wrong. the "respec" of the Rep traits are going to be done for Free.
I just busted my but to get this trait, for I thought it would be a great passive. It is very handy.
Why are we going to lose it?
Because it's redundant.
With Omega gear it's not needed. Plus it only works against Borg. So you have just slotted a power that only works against one single enemy type.
Any comment on the idea of the new system, but with 8/8/4? So that the people grinding through your grinds may get away without losing something?
It would stop future culmination of passives, and yet appease the long term customer base.
The idea is good.. If it was implemented with the second Reputation.. Now that we have four Reputation, you are punishing the players who have been using this setup since it came out.
Either x4 all the bonuses or allow 8 passive traits for Space/Ground....
But just like past nerfs, I'm sure I'm just speaking into the wind....
how about NO and NO but just for you i think the z store is selling tissues
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
Hmm guess I have missed these "thought provoking storylines" that keep me playing
There was a little bit of sarcasm in my post. I very much think there is an over-emphasis on systems (DOFFs, Reputations, Fleets, Console powers, etc) and not enough focus on bringing more of the stories/situations/dilemmas that made Trek good TV to the game. Granted some won't translate well into the game, but that does not mean that every mission should be "blow stuff up," or "Run this same mission 2000x to get enough coins to increase your standing."
I hate to try to compare games to one another, but I will. Guild Wars stands out in my mind as being one of the best story telling games that was online. STO is built in a very similar way from a systems point of view. Except that when ArenaNet released an expansion, it included a strong storyline that was playable by all characters (Not easy in a multi-faction game like STO, but not impossible). There was a clear reason for doing the things you were asked to do, and it all worked together to form a cohesive experience. I hate to say it, but STO is lacking in that cohesive story experience. When we only get 3-4 story missions a year, their frequency lowered in favor of reputation grinds (so called replayable content), we kind of lose focus on that story. By the time the next mission comes out 4-6 months later it doesn't quite have the same kind of pull as it should. But, I've said this before in other threads and this is supposed to be about reputation traits.
It looks like perhaps the goal is for some thought to go into choosing your powers, and for the ability to quickly change things up when needed. This is not a bad thing, but we need to wait and see if reality matches the intent.
There you go 36 days (if you play every single day)... average casual player only plays 3-4 days a week... and even if we assume they do NOTHING but grind rep... so no PvP no content just for fun ect. They are now at around the 50-60 day mark. So thats 2 months of spending 2 or so hours doing nothing but grind content every time they play the game.
Yep sounds like a great way to keep customers around... I can't imagine why Cryptic would want to put some limits on that.
Again now add another 2-3 reps to that... a year from now your 1-2 hours of grind a day could easily become 4 if they have 7-8 reps instead of just 4.
Which is why I say look at this as a future proofing option. A year from now when there are 8 reps... you could easily choose to only grind 2-4 of them as a new player... and be looking at that 1-2 month time frame to "catch up". Then when they have one toon ready to go... they could start alts and either play completely new to them grinds with other reps... or get tokens and power through the same content.
This is a good business choice for Cryptic.
So removed the need to "grind" the content, then what a player logs in once an update to play the single featured episode they give us instead
Skimmed much of this thread, but let me just ask if we can all take a moment and give thanks for this?
The "Placate" effect of the Romulan Tier 4 Space ability has been replaced with "Weapons Offline"
Base duration of this effect has been increased from 2sec to 4sec
This debuff is now cleansed by Engineering Team instead of Science Team
Ok, duration will need to be tuned, but hallelujah none the less.
Hawk, would you consider buffing the Nukara 2 piece Weapon Stabilizer hugely, to like 1-2 seconds?
Think about it people, you have your primary set but you're getting weapons offline procs from this passive so you swap in the Nukara set using the super awesome swapping feature just implemented. Strategery!
Also Hawk, would you consider making the Romulan and Reman 3 piece bonus be something that turns a plasma fire dot into a buff? Maybe restricting it to if it comes from your own Plasma HYT? I just kind of love the idea of setting yourself on fire to make your ship go faster or hit harder.
Anyway, death to the placate, long live anything else.
Comments
Yes, but the passives have been doubled. So it's a net wash.
The real hurt will come when more reps are added.
However fixing the power creep is a good thing.
I don't mind dumping the Rom active power on my eng eventually, it's practically useless on him anyway.
I suspect it will be like how you can switch between ships for free, anytime, outside of combat.
I strongly recommend you do up the slots to 8 ground and 8 space.
As mentioned repeatedly in the thread so far, it allows everyone to keep what they have already earned.
But at the same time puts a hard cap that you can work around and does contain the power creep.
Naturally you would keep the powers as they are now instead of being "buffed".
Everybody wins on this.
Taking away stuff from long term players is just a bad idea.
Even worse then the initial idea to give it to them.
I mean is there really no one at Cryptic thinking ahead? Have they so little trust in their game that the idea of more then four Reputations did never occure to them?
Or had they so much trust in their team that they thought by then they would dropped the Reps and come up with something... new?
Implement a broken system with no future... then realize it and hurt your long term customers when trying to fix it.
That's just foolish.
I really think the new system is good. But it should have been that way from the start.
Now, the only thing they are proving is that they are going to take away stuff from us no matter how long we grinded for it.
THAT is the true problem. THAT is the thing which will make me thing thrice before I start a new grind... if someone at Cryptic has a bad day, the stuff is gone anyways...
Agreed, but there are far better places to address that.
The Valdore console for instance...oh wait, thats a zen item.
It's not the need for power creep control that is disputed, its the selections to nerf that is.
Why are we going to lose it?
Anti powercreep, more diversity...lovely idea and I don't think anyone thought of it!
Will the traits be saveable in loadouts?
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
I dont want to have to think about my stupid powers and if i need to change them I just want to play. and int he end only a FEW of the current powers actually are worth anything and every new power has been stupid or aimed at the current baddie of the seasons. keep this up and you will lose every player in this game, and you lies of oh we have TRIBBLE players. wont help your PR.
No - these are FREE to chage
No no no no.
All this would do is change nothing at all.
We had an old Skill tree that used to let you spend ALL you points in ground or space... it forced people to either have ground or space toons.
Now with people being able to just change them when ever how would that change anything at all.
So I trait full space most of the time when I go to the ground I switch it around to full ground.... lol
That changes nothing over the current system accept force you to make a few mouse clicks when you change maps.
Bingo. "Diversity" will disappear within 24 hrs of this hitting Holodeck and everyone taking the best traits to max DPS.
I have eight characters, 6 of them have maxed all the reps. The remaining two might as well only do Omega rep and T1/T2 of Rom if this goes live. Maybe T1/T2 of Dyson. No sense in doing anymore of them.
The suggestion of keeping it at 8/8/4 so nothing currently gained is lost and then allowing us to choose going forward to swap rep traits as we please would be a much smarter way to go.
For a reason.
Cryptic tends to conjure stuff up nobody asked for, and keeps ignoring stuff many people are asking for... over years and years.
Keep all rep traits as they are now (no buffs to existing, ones that are being completely changed is okay)
8 Ground passives, 8 space passives, 4 actives. Exactly the same as what we currently have.
For every future rep you'd have to drop a trait to gain a trait, and we already know that there will be two reps this year most likely one in S9 and one in S10 which would bring another 4 ground, 4 space and 2 actives.
at the absolute minimum drop it to 6 ground/space passives and 4 actives.
Also the concept of being able to switch them at any time out of combat is just absolutely insanely stupid and is the dumbest thing i've heard of in any game ever. Your practically allowing cheating with this.
I toss all DPS stuff on, decloak and take out a bunch of stuff, recloak and toss on all defense and hull healing to helo heal myself and back and forth. Now that is stupid.
The change here should be the same as the loadouts, you can't change your rep choices in any 'combat' map so only in sector space and public maps like ESD. in New Romulus and Nukara you would just simply have to go beam back up to your ship to make changes and them beam back down. But i shouldn't be able to change these on the fly in any map that is insane.
Now with 4 that's basically required, but with 6 or 8 it won't be and you can change it to that we can only change them on non-combat maps.
It's free. Super-free.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
How so?
It achieves Cryptics goal.
It puts a stop to the rampant power creep, while not hurting existing players and devaluing their work.
nope.
Min/maxers will tell us what is 'right' as soon as it hits tribble.
The 'right' build will be as ubiquitous as A2B
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Typical MMO's have a gear/content progression system in play which includes regular increases in the level cap.
You run Content A to get Gear X so you can run Content B to get Gear Y so you can run Content C to get Gear Z...level cap increase...you run Content A to get Gear X so...etc, etc, etc.
STO has neither the gear checks nor level cap increase schedule.
It's a more accessible game. It's a more casual game.
What power creep are people referring too??? You mean the abilities that EVERYONE can get with some time and effort??
This was yet another unneeded change..you want to stop power creep??? I suggest looking at the cstore first....
this change makes me have the feeling to unsub my lifetime membership...not that it would matter to anyone at the studios or anyone else here.... but hey it was my 2 cents well spent....
I now give them to cryptic and the rest of the community....but now you have to choose which one even though you earned both...
My hope is that we will be able to set and save Reputation Trait loadouts, so that we can move easily and quickly from Anti-Borg to Pure DPS to Anti-Undine without a lot of delay.
With Omega gear it's not needed. Plus it only works against Borg. So you have just slotted a power that only works against one single enemy type.
Say hello to the other half of the powers and the ability to choose which powers you want--for free--on the fly.
Valdore is one issue... it is also only usable on warbirds which have low shield power and hence far less shield resistance anyway.
I am not saying its not to powerful... but its less powerful then say Plasmotic leech that can be slotted on any ship.
Frankly I would like to see them do something similer to consoles in general.
Ships should have 2 Uni console slots... and that is it. Uni consoles shouldn't go anywhere else.
Problem solved at that point.
Any comment on the idea of the new system, but with 8/8/4? So that the people grinding through your grinds may get away without losing something?
It would stop future culmination of passives, and yet appease the long term customer base.
how about NO and NO but just for you i think the z store is selling tissues
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
There was a little bit of sarcasm in my post. I very much think there is an over-emphasis on systems (DOFFs, Reputations, Fleets, Console powers, etc) and not enough focus on bringing more of the stories/situations/dilemmas that made Trek good TV to the game. Granted some won't translate well into the game, but that does not mean that every mission should be "blow stuff up," or "Run this same mission 2000x to get enough coins to increase your standing."
I hate to try to compare games to one another, but I will. Guild Wars stands out in my mind as being one of the best story telling games that was online. STO is built in a very similar way from a systems point of view. Except that when ArenaNet released an expansion, it included a strong storyline that was playable by all characters (Not easy in a multi-faction game like STO, but not impossible). There was a clear reason for doing the things you were asked to do, and it all worked together to form a cohesive experience. I hate to say it, but STO is lacking in that cohesive story experience. When we only get 3-4 story missions a year, their frequency lowered in favor of reputation grinds (so called replayable content), we kind of lose focus on that story. By the time the next mission comes out 4-6 months later it doesn't quite have the same kind of pull as it should. But, I've said this before in other threads and this is supposed to be about reputation traits.
It looks like perhaps the goal is for some thought to go into choosing your powers, and for the ability to quickly change things up when needed. This is not a bad thing, but we need to wait and see if reality matches the intent.
So removed the need to "grind" the content, then what a player logs in once an update to play the single featured episode they give us instead
Ok, duration will need to be tuned, but hallelujah none the less.
Hawk, would you consider buffing the Nukara 2 piece Weapon Stabilizer hugely, to like 1-2 seconds?
Think about it people, you have your primary set but you're getting weapons offline procs from this passive so you swap in the Nukara set using the super awesome swapping feature just implemented. Strategery!
Also Hawk, would you consider making the Romulan and Reman 3 piece bonus be something that turns a plasma fire dot into a buff? Maybe restricting it to if it comes from your own Plasma HYT? I just kind of love the idea of setting yourself on fire to make your ship go faster or hit harder.
Anyway, death to the placate, long live anything else.