Because it's redundant.
With Omega gear it's not needed. Plus it only works against Borg. So you have just slotted a power that only works against one single enemy type.
If it was not meant for the Borg, why is the trait in the Omega rep system?
...but, the only way to complete a ground Omega set will be to hit T5.
Mk X and Mk XI will no longer be available. Mk X ground sets were the key to 'frequency remodulation', and soon it will be gone from the system.
It achieves Cryptics goal.
It puts a stop to the rampant power creep, while not hurting existing players and devaluing their work.
It doesn't achieve Cryptic's goal, it achieves YOUR goal: to not lose what you've gained. And, then what? We know there's an Undine rep coming, so up it to 10 and 10? And what of the next one? 12 and 12? 14 and 14? It wouldn't stop because the creep will still be there.
What are the odds that, down the line, some new fleet holding has as part of its prgression the ability to buy a fifth slot. Ala doffs now from the spire.
Then it wont be a question of newly minted VA versus 3 year vet, it'll be big fleet versus small fleet.
And if a disparity between the former pair is unfair, is a disparity between the latter pair acceptable?
If 8 ground and 8 space is too much, at least make it "8 passives" (ground or space).
I don't care about space combat, and I'm pretty sure many folks here don't care about ground. So I can have my 8 ground passives and they can have their 8 space passives.
I really hope they keep ground and space separate at this point. Though as you said, 8 ground slots and 8 space slots for Tier I-IV rather than 4 ground slots and 4 space slots for Tier I-IV would be greatly appreciated. At this point, a significant number of players in this game have invested into their current 8/8 passive setup. Dropping down to 4/4 while adding in another reputation system feels like much of that work was wasted. I understand the desire to limit power creep from the reputation system, but I feel that 4 slots isn't sufficient when I've gotten used to using 8 slots.
This is all really good feedback, and we're happy to look at any Reputation Trait that feels underwhelming in the new system and make sure it's up to snuff. We want them all to feel really potent.
I don't think increasing the number of slots really meets the system revamp's goal of containing power creep or making Reputation trait choices more interesting and fulfilling to make, but as I think I wrote in the blog, everything is still up for discussion pending playtest feedback on Tribble.
Jeff--may I call you Jeff?--while I really, sincerely appreciate the sentiment and the attempts to halt power creep, there are a few issues with the changes outlined in the blog.
First and foremost, the changes would increase the value of min-maxing builds as opposed to playing smart.
This is a huge, critical, glaring flaw. It'll be great for my Rommie, who will be able to solo entire teams of opponents in PVP with the appropriate rep traits slotted, but...that's not a good thing.
I don't WANT to be able to solo ISE in 30 seconds or single-handedly wipe entire teams in PVP. I want to work as a team with other players, cooperating and playing smart instead of mashing buttons wildly.
If I can solo any STF or non-1v1 PVP match in my T'varo, then this is not a halt to power creep. If I can min-max my scimitar to make it completely invincible AND able to instakill anything in the game, the game is no longer fun.
I prefer the system as-is because it provides a set of buffs that reward dedicated players without giving anyone the power to single-handedly beat elite Borg STFs. The new version makes it hypothetically possible to solo ISE, if you min-max a scimmy or fleet Dhelan right. And then to respec rep traits and go 3-man Infected ground elite, if you have the right gear.
This is bad. Like most Trekkies, I love challenges. I THRIVE on challenges. To me, the rewards earned by figuring out the best strategies and tactics to take down a ridiculously OP boss monster are by far the sweetest.
If you had 8 nickels before, and now you have 4 dimes, is that a nerf because you have half as many coins?
Yes , because the player grinded hard for what he/she thought they were getting .
And now they are not getting that .
A longer time without needing to remodulate against the Borg ?
Yes , adjudicatorhawk , we actually "worked" for that .
So much things replaced with more [Dmg] ?
No adjudicatorhawk , we did not "work" for something as worthless as that .
But thanks for the thought .
Oh , and you don't see us walking around with 200 Passive powers ?
Really ?
I guess that only means that you plan to offer us eventually that number of powers , but now we have to pick and choose .
Generally speaking, I like the change. Endgame power creep is dangerous, and leads to frustration. Options are great. This also opens up the potential for a LOT more rep trees, which I hope you choose to make use of (Personally I want a Ferengi Rep tree, that improves my buy and sell prices, stacking with Ferengi racial bonuses, gives me badass Ferengi B/Doffs, gear, and ships, and maybe gives me some spiffy titles, like "Liquidator" or "Adviser to the Grand Magus") Rep trees that aren't strictly based on Reputation would also be interesting, such as trees that are meant for specializing in a particular weapon type... A Dahar Master tree or Canoneer tree for instance. Putting a cap on endgame power creep opens up a vast potential for variety and content rewards that can help satisfy players without having to make everything insanely more powerful/complicated in order to keep up with the ones who've maxed out everything and shoving aside the ones who haven't.
Bingo. "Diversity" will disappear within 24 hrs of this hitting Holodeck and everyone taking the best traits to max DPS.
I have eight characters, 6 of them have maxed all the reps. The remaining two might as well only do Omega rep and T1/T2 of Rom if this goes live. Maybe T1/T2 of Dyson. No sense in doing anymore of them.
The suggestion of keeping it at 8/8/4 so nothing currently gained is lost and then allowing us to choose going forward to swap rep traits as we please would be a much smarter way to go.
Yeah.
Romulan t2, Dyson t2, Omega t2 and maybe t4, or replace that with Nukara or Undine t2.
There, the DPS build set. 5% crit chance and 20% severity bonus.... this may not be a nerf after all, just a badly disguised attempt at selling reputation trait slots.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
OK, why only 4 ground, 4 space, and 4 active? Why not limit it to the number that we have now? I agree with it being a way to reign in power creep, but why does it have to be a nerf?
Cryptic, maybe you can listen to us, your CUSTOMERS, and up it like 6 of each? COMPROMISE...
Or maybe Eisenwolf and everyone else is right. They're using it as an anabler to allow them to give a "cool new feature" where we have yet another grind to "earn" extra slots. I"VE ALREADY EARNED THEM!!!!!
So removed the need to "grind" the content, then what a player logs in once an update to play the single featured episode they give us instead
Remove the NEED... doesn't mean you can't grind away if you wish to.
Also with 4 traits to fill up the grind won't really change from where it is now.
If you want 4 Higher tier... 3 for ground fo 4 for space traits... you are still going to have to GRIND 4 reps to get them. (which is the number we have now).
Also factor in the ability to change them out on the fly... and that people will want to test combos. So people WILL be doing all the content still.
They simply won't be able to activate it all at once.
People are still going to earn them all.
Same thing happens in almost every MMO I have ever played... you can earn all sorts of cool perks and bonuses... but EVERY game has a system in place that keeps you from having them ALL at once.
So the entire reasoning for this nerf, and it is a nerf no matter how you want to classify it, is that you want new players to be in line with players that have been playing for years. That in itself is an insult to veteran players. They should have superior gear and things they have gained along the way that players who are new shouldn't immediately be able to get.
You are using a logical FALLACY to justify this, Reductio ad absurdum.
There are not 100 reputations in this game. There are 4.
In those 4 reputations there are 16 passives, 8 ground, 8 space.
I have earned all of those passives, and the active abilities that accompany it by playing this content much of which is terrible and boring.
Now that I have grinded all of these reputation systems out, and many have been out for months and some over a year, you think it is a good idea to go tinkering with **** that has been a part of the game for a long time.
With this change you are insulting your players and quite frankly encouraging players NOT TO PLAY YOUR CONTENT. On any characters I do the rep on, all I have to do is target the space passives I want, mainly because ground in this game is absolute **** and needs a revamp far more than anything you have revamped in the past year.
Good luck getting me or anyone else to fully grind any new reputation systems unless they have STELLAR passives. Any new gear you introduce will have to be FAR superior to existing gear for me to waste my time getting it, and guess what I still might not TRIBBLE away my time since in another year you might say well I guess this needs to be nerfed now since our quota has grinded for it.
Instead of throwing the reputation system in the garbage can like you are doing, why not accept that power creep is a part of mmos and crucial to profiting, and actually add CHALLENGING CONTENT. More difficulty level, increased AI, stop tinkering with **** that has existed in this game for awhile and actually SCALE YOUR CONTENT TO A HIGHER LEVEL.
Because it's redundant.
With Omega gear it's not needed. Plus it only works against Borg. So you have just slotted a power that only works against one single enemy type.
Once you eventually get the gear, assuming you dont prefer the dyson gear, its hardly redundant.
I have eight characters, 6 of them have maxed all the reps. The remaining two might as well only do Omega rep and T1/T2 of Rom if this goes live. Maybe T1/T2 of Dyson. No sense in doing anymore of them.
I agree. As a result of these particular changes, the motivation to work through all of them will fade. Players will only need to work on a few rep systems, and then they can ditch the other reps.
I guess I will be skipping T4 & T5 Nukara and Romulous entirely.
you mean the powers that all can earn once they get to 50 without much effort...yeah that's the power creep that needed attention...not the lockbox ships with the I win consoles...or the cstore ships that make the basic ships feel dumb for not showing up to the party dressed the right way....
why does everyone think the powercreep is from skills everyone can earn?
Remove the NEED... doesn't mean you can't grind away if you wish to.
Also with 4 traits to fill up the grind won't really change from where it is now.
If you want 4 Higher tier... 3 for ground fo 4 for space traits... you are still going to have to GRIND 4 reps to get them. (which is the number we have now).
Also factor in the ability to change them out on the fly... and that people will want to test combos. So people WILL be doing all the content still.
They simply won't be able to activate it all at once.
People are still going to earn them all.
Same thing happens in almost every MMO I have ever played... you can earn all sorts of cool perks and bonuses... but EVERY game has a system in place that keeps you from having them ALL at once.
But only the bad ones take the stuff away. Good ones usually are either planned ahead well enough that they dont need to remove it, or get away with a nerf. Oh well, I got 6 TOR characters to level.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
So it seems a lot of people are agreeing with what i tossed out which again is simply.
Keep all rep traits as they are now (no buffs to existing, ones that are being completely changed is okay)
8 Ground passives, 8 space passives, 4 actives. Exactly the same as what we currently have.
For every future rep you'd have to drop a trait to gain a trait, and we already know that there will be two reps this year most likely one in S9 and one in S10 which would bring another 4 ground, 4 space and 2 actives.
at the absolute minimum drop it to 6 ground/space passives and 4 actives.
100% onboard with this. Feeling quite "miffed" (polite language) about the idea.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
This is all really good feedback, and we're happy to look at any Reputation Trait that feels underwhelming in the new system and make sure it's up to snuff. We want them all to feel really potent.
I don't think increasing the number of slots really meets the system revamp's goal of containing power creep or making Reputation trait choices more interesting and fulfilling to make, but as I think I wrote in the blog, everything is still up for discussion pending playtest feedback on Tribble.
Thanks, I understand that this is still in testing. I'll be sure to provide feedback on this as it comes out on Tribble. I am still of the opinion that 8 slots each rather than 4 slots would give players more of a choice and a reason to continue going through the reputation systems in the future, but I'll wait and see how it turns out on Tribble.
I like the new rep system changes and think they're doing a commendable job with encouraging more build diversity and balance. So many good things happening lately. Being able to respec traits for free is great. How could anyone complain about that?
There are those that have all T5 reps done and for them, this probably doesn't do much, but for anyone that's getting started it will have a good effect. That's the whole point right? The more people that play this game=more money spent on it=better game for us...right?
Min/maxers will tell us what is 'right' as soon as it hits tribble.
The 'right' build will be as ubiquitous as A2B
who cares what these people think anyway? It's about choice. I don't care to have the "right" build anyway. If you think that we should follow what a "min/max" type of person says, well, I, for one, don't want to be a lemming going over the very deadly cliff.
Don't assume that everyone's going to do the exact same thing as other people, because that won't happen.
From a PvP standpoint, it just makes Romulans that much better. See someone running AP weapons, no problem, just switch to a rep passive that resists it and adds feedback damage. More critical chance, severity and shield bypass damage, YES PLEASE!!!!
Now my Fed Sci Captain is at that much more of a disadvantage.
And for PvE... as if anyone would take anything other than sheer DPS boosting powers. DPS gods are salivating at those double power rep passives.
It doesn't achieve Cryptic's goal, it achieves YOUR goal: to not lose what you've gained. And, then what? We know there's an Undine rep coming, so up it to 10 and 10? And what of the next one? 12 and 12? 14 and 14? It wouldn't stop because the creep will still be there.
It achieves both Cryptic's goal of stopping the power creep and it also achieves customer satisfaction.
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for slots to be expanded beyond 8-8, as from that point out everyone will now what to expect.
Whole point behind the idea of 8-8 slots is that it won't make people loose what they have already worked hard for and gained, while capping the power creep.
So from this point out they would need to make choices.
It lets people ease into the new system and get used to it without being forced to quit the old system cold turkey.
People will still do all the rep systems regardless as T5 is the only way to get the Active powers to get slotted. I am actually glad this has happened as it will really help new toons to hit the ground running.
Comments
Are we getting to test this out on Tribble soon?
...but, the only way to complete a ground Omega set will be to hit T5.
Mk X and Mk XI will no longer be available. Mk X ground sets were the key to 'frequency remodulation', and soon it will be gone from the system.
It doesn't achieve Cryptic's goal, it achieves YOUR goal: to not lose what you've gained. And, then what? We know there's an Undine rep coming, so up it to 10 and 10? And what of the next one? 12 and 12? 14 and 14? It wouldn't stop because the creep will still be there.
Well, you say that now.........
What are the odds that, down the line, some new fleet holding has as part of its prgression the ability to buy a fifth slot. Ala doffs now from the spire.
Then it wont be a question of newly minted VA versus 3 year vet, it'll be big fleet versus small fleet.
And if a disparity between the former pair is unfair, is a disparity between the latter pair acceptable?
I really hope they keep ground and space separate at this point. Though as you said, 8 ground slots and 8 space slots for Tier I-IV rather than 4 ground slots and 4 space slots for Tier I-IV would be greatly appreciated. At this point, a significant number of players in this game have invested into their current 8/8 passive setup. Dropping down to 4/4 while adding in another reputation system feels like much of that work was wasted. I understand the desire to limit power creep from the reputation system, but I feel that 4 slots isn't sufficient when I've gotten used to using 8 slots.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Jeff--may I call you Jeff?--while I really, sincerely appreciate the sentiment and the attempts to halt power creep, there are a few issues with the changes outlined in the blog.
First and foremost, the changes would increase the value of min-maxing builds as opposed to playing smart.
This is a huge, critical, glaring flaw. It'll be great for my Rommie, who will be able to solo entire teams of opponents in PVP with the appropriate rep traits slotted, but...that's not a good thing.
I don't WANT to be able to solo ISE in 30 seconds or single-handedly wipe entire teams in PVP. I want to work as a team with other players, cooperating and playing smart instead of mashing buttons wildly.
If I can solo any STF or non-1v1 PVP match in my T'varo, then this is not a halt to power creep. If I can min-max my scimitar to make it completely invincible AND able to instakill anything in the game, the game is no longer fun.
I prefer the system as-is because it provides a set of buffs that reward dedicated players without giving anyone the power to single-handedly beat elite Borg STFs. The new version makes it hypothetically possible to solo ISE, if you min-max a scimmy or fleet Dhelan right. And then to respec rep traits and go 3-man Infected ground elite, if you have the right gear.
This is bad. Like most Trekkies, I love challenges. I THRIVE on challenges. To me, the rewards earned by figuring out the best strategies and tactics to take down a ridiculously OP boss monster are by far the sweetest.
Anyway, that's my personal opinion on this.
That is what I love you get thrown under the bus and don't have to pay for the bus ticket.
Yes , because the player grinded hard for what he/she thought they were getting .
And now they are not getting that .
A longer time without needing to remodulate against the Borg ?
Yes , adjudicatorhawk , we actually "worked" for that .
So much things replaced with more [Dmg] ?
No adjudicatorhawk , we did not "work" for something as worthless as that .
But thanks for the thought .
Oh , and you don't see us walking around with 200 Passive powers ?
Really ?
I guess that only means that you plan to offer us eventually that number of powers , but now we have to pick and choose .
The joy ... .
Yeah.
Romulan t2, Dyson t2, Omega t2 and maybe t4, or replace that with Nukara or Undine t2.
There, the DPS build set. 5% crit chance and 20% severity bonus.... this may not be a nerf after all, just a badly disguised attempt at selling reputation trait slots.
Cryptic, maybe you can listen to us, your CUSTOMERS, and up it like 6 of each? COMPROMISE...
Or maybe Eisenwolf and everyone else is right. They're using it as an anabler to allow them to give a "cool new feature" where we have yet another grind to "earn" extra slots. I"VE ALREADY EARNED THEM!!!!!
finally sombody gets it god bless you
Remove the NEED... doesn't mean you can't grind away if you wish to.
Also with 4 traits to fill up the grind won't really change from where it is now.
If you want 4 Higher tier... 3 for ground fo 4 for space traits... you are still going to have to GRIND 4 reps to get them. (which is the number we have now).
Also factor in the ability to change them out on the fly... and that people will want to test combos. So people WILL be doing all the content still.
They simply won't be able to activate it all at once.
People are still going to earn them all.
Same thing happens in almost every MMO I have ever played... you can earn all sorts of cool perks and bonuses... but EVERY game has a system in place that keeps you from having them ALL at once.
You are using a logical FALLACY to justify this, Reductio ad absurdum.
There are not 100 reputations in this game. There are 4.
In those 4 reputations there are 16 passives, 8 ground, 8 space.
I have earned all of those passives, and the active abilities that accompany it by playing this content much of which is terrible and boring.
Now that I have grinded all of these reputation systems out, and many have been out for months and some over a year, you think it is a good idea to go tinkering with **** that has been a part of the game for a long time.
With this change you are insulting your players and quite frankly encouraging players NOT TO PLAY YOUR CONTENT. On any characters I do the rep on, all I have to do is target the space passives I want, mainly because ground in this game is absolute **** and needs a revamp far more than anything you have revamped in the past year.
Good luck getting me or anyone else to fully grind any new reputation systems unless they have STELLAR passives. Any new gear you introduce will have to be FAR superior to existing gear for me to waste my time getting it, and guess what I still might not TRIBBLE away my time since in another year you might say well I guess this needs to be nerfed now since our quota has grinded for it.
Instead of throwing the reputation system in the garbage can like you are doing, why not accept that power creep is a part of mmos and crucial to profiting, and actually add CHALLENGING CONTENT. More difficulty level, increased AI, stop tinkering with **** that has existed in this game for awhile and actually SCALE YOUR CONTENT TO A HIGHER LEVEL.
Once you eventually get the gear, assuming you dont prefer the dyson gear, its hardly redundant.
I guess I will be skipping T4 & T5 Nukara and Romulous entirely.
you mean the powers that all can earn once they get to 50 without much effort...yeah that's the power creep that needed attention...not the lockbox ships with the I win consoles...or the cstore ships that make the basic ships feel dumb for not showing up to the party dressed the right way....
why does everyone think the powercreep is from skills everyone can earn?
But only the bad ones take the stuff away. Good ones usually are either planned ahead well enough that they dont need to remove it, or get away with a nerf. Oh well, I got 6 TOR characters to level.
100% onboard with this. Feeling quite "miffed" (polite language) about the idea.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Thanks, I understand that this is still in testing. I'll be sure to provide feedback on this as it comes out on Tribble. I am still of the opinion that 8 slots each rather than 4 slots would give players more of a choice and a reason to continue going through the reputation systems in the future, but I'll wait and see how it turns out on Tribble.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
There are those that have all T5 reps done and for them, this probably doesn't do much, but for anyone that's getting started it will have a good effect. That's the whole point right? The more people that play this game=more money spent on it=better game for us...right?
Don't assume that everyone's going to do the exact same thing as other people, because that won't happen.
Let me say what he cant say FFS its not the end of the world grab some tissues suck it up and deal with it ...and if you cant ....you are dissmissed
You no longer need to bring all reps up to tier 4 or 5.
Game will be over quickly.
Now my Fed Sci Captain is at that much more of a disadvantage.
And for PvE... as if anyone would take anything other than sheer DPS boosting powers. DPS gods are salivating at those double power rep passives.
It achieves both Cryptic's goal of stopping the power creep and it also achieves customer satisfaction.
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for slots to be expanded beyond 8-8, as from that point out everyone will now what to expect.
Whole point behind the idea of 8-8 slots is that it won't make people loose what they have already worked hard for and gained, while capping the power creep.
So from this point out they would need to make choices.
It lets people ease into the new system and get used to it without being forced to quit the old system cold turkey.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles