And if they pull more of this, this game will be nothing more than a glorified role play platform, because the actual game will not be worth investing time and effort into.
Though if Cryptic takes out Romulan operatives without giving romulans warp cores instead of the TRIBBLE singularity ones, that's the end of STO for me.
The only thing that made romulans worth playing was the critical chance bonus offsetting their terribly low powerlevels.
LMAO ok this made my day.
The power levels where a way to balance the cores themselves. Have you not noticed all those singularity powers on your bar.
That is what you paid the -10 power per system for.
The boffs where a bonus that is all....
Yes ALL boff stacking needs to have a diminishing return formula....
And the Reman bonus to ambush times needs to be halved... right now having +25% dmg for 24s is sort of BS. Terrible design... and no where close to balanced. Very much not balanced when you consider those same boffs allow you to use your cloak on a 12s cool down. Its why the shimitard setups are so Over powered compared to anything else in the game... recloak for 2s eveery 24s and you have perma Ambush bonus. Its not an "Ambush" bonus anymore at that point is it. lol
Because getting past the paltry -10 power levels on romulan ships was fantastically easy for me.
Hmm an additional 10 points to power would give me over 180 extra points to my weapon damage each.. So I guess it's harder to over come than you think.
I really don't understand why ppl complain about A2B when everyone can use it? So far the only ship that can truly benefit from A2B is cruisers. Using A2B on other ship types is kinda pointless.
Buy yourself a Hirogen escort and say that.
There are plenty of destroyers that are just as well off.
Even if really is only cruisers as you say getting the full bonus. It is still way to good. I'm sorry but cruisers don't Deserve to have twice as many skills as other ships just because.
The tech doffs where released when A2B WAS on a global with EPTx.
That is what made them balanced.
You could run EPTS with say A2B... and you where fine you could have EPTS at almost global... and run A2B once and reduce all your skills 30%. (30% is a huge number it was balanced by basicly locking you down to a one EPTx skill build... and by not really allowing for builds that ran 2 copies of a2b)
When bort made the stupid decision to remove A2B from that global he messed up.
It instantly allowed people to keep TWO Eptx skills at Complete Global... while running 2 copies of A2B and reducing there skills cool downs by 60%... meaning things like DEM 3 ended up at global as well.
I'm not as leery of this as I probably should be. Reps helped kill pvp. I just have to remember how to survive prior to pre-rep days... and that probably isn't in a b'rel
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Really!?! And which builds would that be?? I've played as a Sci for years in this game and have had to respec numerous times because of their nerfs to Sci abilities. But thanks for the response fan boy.
Off the top of my head:
Any Torpedo Boat that doesn't need weapons power but has need of defensive skills, like Transfer Shield Strength, Hazard Emitters, Polarize Hull, and Aux2SIF, or which is relying on powers boosted by Auxiliary Power, such as Charged Particle Burst, Gravity Well, Tachyon Beam, Jam Sensors, Photonic Shockwave, Scramble Sensors, Energy Siphon, Tyken's Rift, and (situationaly) Tractor Beam Repulsors.
Any Vesta using Aux Cannons or, IIRC, any of its clickies.
Any Sci Ship relying on E Siphon and another deflector power (Tyken's, Grav Well, Tachyon Beam, I think a couple more) to keep its power levels pegged across the board.
Any ship that either comes by its high aux power naturally, or has reason to switch to a high-aux setting.
Pretty much every Sci Captain capable of clicking on their Auxiliary Battery button to make sure their Sensor Scan and Scattering Field are at maximum strength when activated.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Hmm an additional 10 points to power would give me over 180 extra points to my weapon damage each.. So I guess it's harder to over come than you think.
er...no?
energy siphon, plasmonic leech, speccing into skills properly, careful attention to bonuses on space kit.
I have a fleet Tvaro which, in combat, can hit 80/90 on most powers with weapons maxed.
I'm not as leery of this as I probably should be. Reps helped kill pvp. I just have to remember how to survive prior to pre-rep days... and that probably isn't in a b'rel
Of course on the other hand we used to be able to kill more often before everyone started having a bunch of extra passive heals as well remember.
It won't fix the game or anything ... its a good step though even for our bops.
So now we go back to being weak and worthless because rep powers may as well not exist??
Devs: we gave you almost an extra 1% per massive investment of time/effort/expense but we want it to be 0.0000025% thanks for paying!!
If people would stop the whole "OP please nerf" we might eventually have a game....
The power levels where a way to balance the cores themselves. Have you not noticed all those singularity powers on your bar.
That is what you paid the -10 power per system for.
The boffs where a bonus that is all....
Yes ALL boff stacking needs to have a diminishing return formula....
And the Reman bonus to ambush times needs to be halved... right now having +25% dmg for 24s is sort of BS. Terrible design... and no where close to balanced. Very much not balanced when you consider those same boffs allow you to use your cloak on a 12s cool down. Its why the shimitard setups are so Over powered compared to anything else in the game... recloak for 2s eveery 24s and you have perma Ambush bonus. Its not an "Ambush" bonus anymore at that point is it. lol
You seem to have to chime in on everything.. Back in the day Perfect World got caught loading their forums with Employees to combat the negative feedback from their Nerfs; you wouldn't happen to be one of their associates would you??
Really!?! And which builds would that be?? I've played as a Sci for years in this game and have had to respec numerous times because of their nerfs to Sci abilities. But thanks for the response fan boy.
Yep taking both nukura tier 4s is going to be darn good for pretty much any sci. Also... if they go ahead and double the Dyson CrtD bonus to 20 from 10... that effects all science skills that crit as well.
So imagine you have BOTH nukura tier 4s... which if you are running full 130 aux you are gaining a ton of extra dmg and defense. + the Dyson tier 2 and say the romulan tier 2.
That would give you lots more base dmg... + 5% crit instead of the old +2.5... and an extra 10% crtd. Now hit someone with a Gravity well... some Grav photons that hopefuly rift (use torp spread and they will). Make sure you have 9 points in particle generators and that stuff will HURT.
Yep taking both nukura tier 4s is going to be darn good for pretty much any sci. Also... if they go ahead and double the Dyson CrtD bonus to 20 from 10... that effects all science skills that crit as well.
So imagine you have BOTH nukura tier 4s... which if you are running full 130 aux you are gaining a ton of extra dmg and defense. + the Dyson tier 2 and say the romulan tier 2.
That would give you lots more base dmg... + 5% crit instead of the old +2.5... and an extra 10% crtd. Now hit someone with a Gravity well... some Grav photons that hopefuly rift (use torp spread and they will). Make sure you have 9 points in particle generators and that stuff will HURT.
But you're still not comfortable calling these changes a buff to min maxers?
You seem to have to chime in on everything.. Back in the day Perfect World got caught loading their forums with Employees to combat the negative feedback from their Nerfs; you wouldn't happen to be one of their associates would you??
Lets hear it for the Fan Boys ... WoooHoooo
Indeed... a nice Chinese boy drops a bag of cash in the trash can in front of my house every few days.
With behavior (how Hawk has been behaving on this forum) like this, and decisions (changing the rep passives) like this, I have no faith or confidence in the leaders of this game, and will not contribute to this game anymore.
So, AdjudicatorHawk asking for calm is now going to be considered bad behavior, when you have some people calling others names? AdjudicatorHawk hasn't done anything that would be considered bad behavior... He has done everything in his power to explain the changes and tried to get the players who are against the change to at least not be vitriolic and at least test the change before making any final decisions...
If you truly think that AdjudicatorHawk has been behaving badly, then perhaps you should try to look at the situation from a different point of view.
But you're still not comfortable calling these changes a buff to min maxers?
I never said I wasn't it is a buff. To the Max in the terms of Min Max.
It is a Nerf to the Min in the term Min Max.
Follow me.
Right now one of the main issues is... everyone gets to boost what they are building for... and they get a boost to stuff they didn't worry about anyway.
Now they have to choose... and it means reducing the stuff people where just getting before. To be honest I think people that min max hard for pure dmg are going to really miss those free defensive traits they where getting before. (Yes I know not everyone took any of the "defensive" traits but by there nature some like the placate proc was defensive).
So, AdjudicatorHawk asking for calm is now going to be considered bad behavior, when you have some people calling others names? AdjudicatorHawk hasn't done anything that would be considered bad behavior... He has done everything in his power to explain the changes and tried to get the players who are against the change to at least not be vitriolic and at least test the change before making any final decisions...
If you truly think that AdjudicatorHawk has been behaving badly, then perhaps you should try to look at the situation from a different point of view.
I dont Hawk has done anything wrong.
however, i would like him to explain how this change is supposed to rein in power creep, when min maxers have already shown this to be a buff.
Which means in his explicit example of the new VA and the vet VA, the new VA is actually worse off.
Really jeff less than 11 hrs playing the game and you are gonna tell us what this game needs, you don't even know how to fly the ship you are in, wake up people see this for what it is jeff here is your local buy here pay here used car salesman selling us a lemon. comical really. 1o hrs playing huh u gotta be kidding me
I never said I wasn't it is a buff. To the Max in the terms of Min Max.
It is a Nerf to the Min in the term Min Max.
Follow me.
Right now one of the main issues is... everyone gets to boost what they are building for... and they get a boost to stuff they didn't worry about anyway.
Now they have to choose... and it means reducing the stuff people where just getting before. To be honest I think people that min max hard for pure dmg are going to really miss those free defensive traits they where getting before. (Yes I know not everyone took any of the "defensive" traits but by there nature some like the placate proc was defensive).
Yes it is a buff and a nerf all at once.
Sophistry.
The drawbacks are only drawbacks if exploited.
The buffs are constant, and a min maxer will buff their strengths.
Thus, in the example Hawk gave of a vet VA and new VA, the new VA will be at an even greater disadvantage.
Or, are you suggesting that skilled min maxers, flush with pride in setting up their builds with this new passive system, will regulary be found out in their weak spots by newly minted VAs with mk X stock gear and free tier 5 ships?
The power levels where a way to balance the cores themselves. Have you not noticed all those singularity powers on your bar.
That is what you paid the -10 power per system for.
The boffs where a bonus that is all....
Yes ALL boff stacking needs to have a diminishing return formula....
And the Reman bonus to ambush times needs to be halved... right now having +25% dmg for 24s is sort of BS. Terrible design... and no where close to balanced. Very much not balanced when you consider those same boffs allow you to use your cloak on a 12s cool down. Its why the shimitard setups are so Over powered compared to anything else in the game... recloak for 2s eveery 24s and you have perma Ambush bonus. Its not an "Ambush" bonus anymore at that point is it. lol
The singularity powers are not worth -40 power. +40 power to shields is worth more than any singularity power and elite core can give you.
Reman ambush bonus isnt even working, so you cant nerf nothing lol.
Though....are you not getting bored of being the only one to defend this nerf?
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Thus, in the example Hawk gave of a vet VA and new VA, the new VA will be at an even greater disadvantage.
I don't disagree with you. If this is where they stop making changes they don't achieve there goals.
I also think they know that though. I have heard talk that Bort has been working on a new version of FAW for awhile now.... they have already announced fixes that should reduce some of the healing from the Borg Set.
I don't know if they have plans for Boffs / Doffs / Consoles at this point... however I don't doubt that they might be only days away from some more blog posts that start some S storms.
HE stated an ACTUAL Design goal... and I got to tell you that alone shocked me. They haven't really had any stated Balance goal in a very long time. Last time I saw a Cryptic dev talk like that was way back S1.2 time frame when they completely overhauled healing.
So yes I am semi hopeful that they will make the other changes needed. Of they might not... in which case your right this doesn't solve anything as it is... worst case though it keeps reps from being a real issue when we have 6, 7 or more of them.
I'm amazed how many posts here have not been edited and with their authors banned or suspended. I got suspended for 3 days for trying to help someone in a frank and possibly harsh tone. But that was nothing compared to alot of the vitriol people are spewing here.
Step it up mods. Enforce the rules on everyone in a fair way. Do something about this hate filled thread going nowhere.
I don't disagree with you. If this is where they stop making changes they don't achieve there goals.
I also think they know that though. I have heard talk that Bort has been working on a new version of FAW for awhile now.... they have already announced fixes that should reduce some of the healing from the Borg Set.
I don't know if they have plans for Boffs / Doffs / Consoles at this point... however I don't doubt that they might be only days away from some more blog posts that start some S storms.
HE stated an ACTUAL Design goal... and I got to tell you that alone shocked me. They haven't really had any stated Balance goal in a very long time. Last time I saw a Cryptic dev talk like that was way back S1.2 time frame when they completely overhauled healing.
So yes I am semi hopeful that they will make the other changes needed. Of they might not... in which case your right this doesn't solve anything as it is... worst case though it keeps reps from being a real issue when we have 6, 7 or more of them.
No, worst case is that min maxers create ever larger synergies.
Because much of the power creep is not contained within single systems, but in their interactions.
Again, you have already made this point when talking about how unchaining aux2bat from EptX created one of the major imbalances in the game.
This system, if it goes live as proposed, is simply doing the same sort of thing.
I'm amazed how many posts here have not been edited and with their authors banned or suspended. I got suspended for 3 days for trying to help someone in a frank and possibly harsh tone. But that was nothing compared to alot of the vitriol people are spewing here.
Step it up mods. Enforce the rules on everyone in a fair way. Do something about this hate filled thread going nowhere.
So throw out a HUGE NERF and when people start to complain trample on their free speech and ban them.. Yes that sounds about right for PWE.
The singularity powers are not worth -40 power. +40 power to shields is worth more than any singularity power and elite core can give you.
Reman ambush bonus isnt even working, so you cant nerf nothing lol.
Though....are you not getting bored of being the only one to defend this nerf?
Unless they recently broke the reman ambush bonus it is working fine.
I haven't tested it in a month or so... but it was working fine last I checked. IF they broke it people should be reporting it I haven't noticed anything.
I am not the only one defending this nerf... I am just the only one willing to hang out and continue doing it... must be that bag of cash that keeps showing up in front of the house.
The boffs are NOT what you got as a trade for the -40. I'm not saying that because I feel like it ... I'm saying that because that is WHAT the devs told us when we where testing and helping them get the Roms out the door. IF you didn't feel the singularity powers where powerful enough for the -40 you should have been more vocal during the open testing.
Myself I find the singularty powers more then powerful enough to justify the -10 per system.
However if you really don't like the setup on a Warbird... you could always pick up a lockbox ship for your romulan toon... and stop using the singularity powers... gain a regular warp core and keep your rom boffs.
This system, if it goes live as proposed, is simply doing the same sort of thing.
Solving one problem and creating a bigger one.
I see your point... and its likely why when this hits tribble and I test it for myself you will find me in the tribble section strongly suggesting they DO NOT boost any of the traits at all... Leave them as they are now but institute the limit.
I'm amazed how many posts here have not been edited and with their authors banned or suspended. I got suspended for 3 days for trying to help someone in a frank and possibly harsh tone. But that was nothing compared to alot of the vitriol people are spewing here.
Step it up mods. Enforce the rules on everyone in a fair way. Do something about this hate filled thread going nowhere.
They mostly only come down on posts that get reported. Seeing as most of the heat is aimed at me and I can take it and won't report someone for venting. They are likely just leaving it alone.
I think they know i find it entertaining. As long as people don't attack people that seem likely to cave I think a little heated debate is fine.
Comments
LMAO ok this made my day.
The power levels where a way to balance the cores themselves. Have you not noticed all those singularity powers on your bar.
That is what you paid the -10 power per system for.
The boffs where a bonus that is all....
Yes ALL boff stacking needs to have a diminishing return formula....
And the Reman bonus to ambush times needs to be halved... right now having +25% dmg for 24s is sort of BS. Terrible design... and no where close to balanced. Very much not balanced when you consider those same boffs allow you to use your cloak on a 12s cool down. Its why the shimitard setups are so Over powered compared to anything else in the game... recloak for 2s eveery 24s and you have perma Ambush bonus. Its not an "Ambush" bonus anymore at that point is it. lol
Hmm an additional 10 points to power would give me over 180 extra points to my weapon damage each.. So I guess it's harder to over come than you think.
Buy yourself a Hirogen escort and say that.
There are plenty of destroyers that are just as well off.
Even if really is only cruisers as you say getting the full bonus. It is still way to good. I'm sorry but cruisers don't Deserve to have twice as many skills as other ships just because.
The tech doffs where released when A2B WAS on a global with EPTx.
That is what made them balanced.
You could run EPTS with say A2B... and you where fine you could have EPTS at almost global... and run A2B once and reduce all your skills 30%. (30% is a huge number it was balanced by basicly locking you down to a one EPTx skill build... and by not really allowing for builds that ran 2 copies of a2b)
When bort made the stupid decision to remove A2B from that global he messed up.
It instantly allowed people to keep TWO Eptx skills at Complete Global... while running 2 copies of A2B and reducing there skills cool downs by 60%... meaning things like DEM 3 ended up at global as well.
It broke the game frankly.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Off the top of my head:
er...no?
energy siphon, plasmonic leech, speccing into skills properly, careful attention to bonuses on space kit.
I have a fleet Tvaro which, in combat, can hit 80/90 on most powers with weapons maxed.
Of course on the other hand we used to be able to kill more often before everyone started having a bunch of extra passive heals as well remember.
It won't fix the game or anything ... its a good step though even for our bops.
So now we go back to being weak and worthless because rep powers may as well not exist??
Devs: we gave you almost an extra 1% per massive investment of time/effort/expense but we want it to be 0.0000025% thanks for paying!!
If people would stop the whole "OP please nerf" we might eventually have a game....
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~LaughingTrendy
You seem to have to chime in on everything.. Back in the day Perfect World got caught loading their forums with Employees to combat the negative feedback from their Nerfs; you wouldn't happen to be one of their associates would you??
Lets hear it for the Fan Boys ... WoooHoooo
Corsair has covered a lot of great points.
Yep taking both nukura tier 4s is going to be darn good for pretty much any sci. Also... if they go ahead and double the Dyson CrtD bonus to 20 from 10... that effects all science skills that crit as well.
So imagine you have BOTH nukura tier 4s... which if you are running full 130 aux you are gaining a ton of extra dmg and defense. + the Dyson tier 2 and say the romulan tier 2.
That would give you lots more base dmg... + 5% crit instead of the old +2.5... and an extra 10% crtd. Now hit someone with a Gravity well... some Grav photons that hopefuly rift (use torp spread and they will). Make sure you have 9 points in particle generators and that stuff will HURT.
But you're still not comfortable calling these changes a buff to min maxers?
Indeed... a nice Chinese boy drops a bag of cash in the trash can in front of my house every few days.
If you truly think that AdjudicatorHawk has been behaving badly, then perhaps you should try to look at the situation from a different point of view.
I never said I wasn't it is a buff. To the Max in the terms of Min Max.
It is a Nerf to the Min in the term Min Max.
Follow me.
Right now one of the main issues is... everyone gets to boost what they are building for... and they get a boost to stuff they didn't worry about anyway.
Now they have to choose... and it means reducing the stuff people where just getting before. To be honest I think people that min max hard for pure dmg are going to really miss those free defensive traits they where getting before. (Yes I know not everyone took any of the "defensive" traits but by there nature some like the placate proc was defensive).
Yes it is a buff and a nerf all at once.
I dont Hawk has done anything wrong.
however, i would like him to explain how this change is supposed to rein in power creep, when min maxers have already shown this to be a buff.
Which means in his explicit example of the new VA and the vet VA, the new VA is actually worse off.
That's what I thought, so we can just totally ignore all your comments as bought and paid for...
Thanks you tool. Let the real player way in on this..
Sophistry.
The drawbacks are only drawbacks if exploited.
The buffs are constant, and a min maxer will buff their strengths.
Thus, in the example Hawk gave of a vet VA and new VA, the new VA will be at an even greater disadvantage.
Or, are you suggesting that skilled min maxers, flush with pride in setting up their builds with this new passive system, will regulary be found out in their weak spots by newly minted VAs with mk X stock gear and free tier 5 ships?
The joke
You
The singularity powers are not worth -40 power. +40 power to shields is worth more than any singularity power and elite core can give you.
Reman ambush bonus isnt even working, so you cant nerf nothing lol.
Though....are you not getting bored of being the only one to defend this nerf?
Sadly the only joke here is what PW/Cryptic is turning this game into..
And every Fan boy needs back up. Lets hear it for the Fan Boys .. WoooHoooo
I don't disagree with you. If this is where they stop making changes they don't achieve there goals.
I also think they know that though. I have heard talk that Bort has been working on a new version of FAW for awhile now.... they have already announced fixes that should reduce some of the healing from the Borg Set.
I don't know if they have plans for Boffs / Doffs / Consoles at this point... however I don't doubt that they might be only days away from some more blog posts that start some S storms.
HE stated an ACTUAL Design goal... and I got to tell you that alone shocked me. They haven't really had any stated Balance goal in a very long time. Last time I saw a Cryptic dev talk like that was way back S1.2 time frame when they completely overhauled healing.
So yes I am semi hopeful that they will make the other changes needed. Of they might not... in which case your right this doesn't solve anything as it is... worst case though it keeps reps from being a real issue when we have 6, 7 or more of them.
Step it up mods. Enforce the rules on everyone in a fair way. Do something about this hate filled thread going nowhere.
No, worst case is that min maxers create ever larger synergies.
Because much of the power creep is not contained within single systems, but in their interactions.
Again, you have already made this point when talking about how unchaining aux2bat from EptX created one of the major imbalances in the game.
This system, if it goes live as proposed, is simply doing the same sort of thing.
Solving one problem and creating a bigger one.
So throw out a HUGE NERF and when people start to complain trample on their free speech and ban them.. Yes that sounds about right for PWE.
Unless they recently broke the reman ambush bonus it is working fine.
I haven't tested it in a month or so... but it was working fine last I checked. IF they broke it people should be reporting it I haven't noticed anything.
I am not the only one defending this nerf... I am just the only one willing to hang out and continue doing it... must be that bag of cash that keeps showing up in front of the house.
The boffs are NOT what you got as a trade for the -40. I'm not saying that because I feel like it ... I'm saying that because that is WHAT the devs told us when we where testing and helping them get the Roms out the door. IF you didn't feel the singularity powers where powerful enough for the -40 you should have been more vocal during the open testing.
Myself I find the singularty powers more then powerful enough to justify the -10 per system.
However if you really don't like the setup on a Warbird... you could always pick up a lockbox ship for your romulan toon... and stop using the singularity powers... gain a regular warp core and keep your rom boffs.
Well here's the thing, it can't be a huge nerf AND a buff can it?
Maybe it's just turning 8 nickels into 4 dimes. And it all kind of evens out in the wash?
I see your point... and its likely why when this hits tribble and I test it for myself you will find me in the tribble section strongly suggesting they DO NOT boost any of the traits at all... Leave them as they are now but institute the limit.
They mostly only come down on posts that get reported. Seeing as most of the heat is aimed at me and I can take it and won't report someone for venting. They are likely just leaving it alone.
I think they know i find it entertaining. As long as people don't attack people that seem likely to cave I think a little heated debate is fine.