There should be a profound difference in power level between someone who rolled a character a week ago, ground out level 50 then pumped out a couple reps, and someone who has been playing a character for three years putting hundreds and hundreds of hours into it and maxing all reps.
There should be a difference...and it should be with the player and not the character. That player that's been playing for three years should...
have such a depth of knowledge about the game's mechanics that the new player's brain would turn to mush after a 15s conversation
be able to fly their ship with their pinkytoes while eating a sandwich, typing on the forums, watching silly cat videos on YouTube, and thinking about what they'll be doing this upcoming weekend while the new player is still forgetting more than half of what they've got for abilities and fatfingering the rest
etc, etc, etc
However, it appears that so many players in this thread would prefer to have everything not be about them - so that after playing for three years...
they know less about the game than they did on day one
everything's on the spacebar so they don't have to remember anything or risk fatfingering it
The 8 Ground and 8 Space passives that we have chosen "define" our characters and playstyle.
Doubling the power and reducing the number that can be active at once possibly changes that playstyle and diminishes the definition of our characters, despite being able to change the powers at will.
I think a system that had 8 buckets for each space and ground with passives that were at the same power level as they currently are would be more welcomed than the proposed change.
To go back to the coin metaphore, our nickels are "rare". We have spent time finding them, digging them out of mud, searching swap meets, bidding at auctions... You're offering newly minted dimes. While the monetary value of the nickels isn't the same as the dimes, there is significant value in other terms, particularly in that the nickels have more "sentimental" value.
If this system is going to go through, I would offer the following suggestion to Cryptic so as to reduce the angst of us veterans while also reducing the power creep: Scale the number of available passive slots with the number of fully (Tier 5) unlocked reputations.
Start with a base of 2 passive slots available. Then with each reputation that reaches Tier 5, it unlocks an additional passive slot.
What does this mean for us veterans that have the 4 current reputations maxed out?
We would have 2 (base) + 4 (T5 reps) = 6 passive slots available.
What does this mean for new players?
They would start with 2 passive slots, then expand their slots with each reputation fully unlocked. This gives the sense of accomplishment many have mentioned. Something to keep the rep grind worth doing that has an effect on end-game content.
This would automatically help with new reputations that are added later (like the pending Undine rep). If a player were to grind out the new rep (in addition to having the other 4 fully unlocked) they would then have 2 (base) + 5 (T5 reps) = 7 passive slots.
Being that each new reputation adds 4 passives, I think adding the an additional passive slot is justifiable. You allow players to use some of the newer passives, without making them totally sacrifice the 'older' ones.
For the visual inclined, it would look something like this:
Every veteran PvP player knows that with the exception of maybe T4 romulan placate - the rep system is the LEAST of the balance and power creep issues of the game.
Unless they address the pay-to-win - OP doffs/OP traits/OP consoles - then these changes are meaningless
heck - letting people slot 3 purple techs - 2x aux to Battery - Warp core doffs/ damage control doffs and removing AtB off a shared cool down with EptX - is more power and power creep than all the rep passives combined!
^QFT
Cryptic, you're not addressing the REAL problem with the game systems. You're only providing a way to make yourselves more dirty money.
I didn't buy an LTS to Star Grind Online five years ago. I thought there was a "Trek" in there somewhere.
The higher DPS numbers are oft misconstrued numbers that are actually based on a team effort. They're way beyond what most of us mere mortals will ever see - unless we fudge our 1's to look like 7's, lol...
...
Megauberawesome job...but they shouldn't be misconstrued as something other than they are. Nothing I'd be able to do in the same ship running with the same teams - not by a long shot, I'm nowhere near that skilled and so he deserves all the credit in the world for it...but it's still a team thing.
Granted, and I get that, but does any of it invalidate the larger concern? (I know from reading your posts that you don't disagree with the general point).
Without any sort of coordinated help at all, I can easily get 20k in ISE on my Mogh or my Scimitar. It's easy at 5-10k. Once you break the 15k barrier, the content goes from silly to laughably absurd. I'm not saying that this rep-passive change will fix underwhelming content or overpowered doffs/ships/etc. but I do think it is a step in the right direction. I get that this is a casual game but to paraphrase from your colorful collection, it need not be a tablet app for puppies.
Activatable powers are respec'ed for free as well - we just don't have that many of them yet, so it's less of a big deal for them.
*braces for impact*
Let me run this by you, and see if I got this right:
"All players will have four slots for passive Ground powers, four slots for passive Space powers, and four slots for Active powers"
So, the way I read that, is 1 group of 4 passive ground powers, and 1 group of 4 passive space powers, plus 1 group of 4 active powers, period (ground or space). So, 8 space power in total, if you want, right?
I think a system that had 8 buckets for each space and ground with passives that were at the same power level as they currently are would be more welcomed than the proposed change.
What about when there are 8 Reps? What about when there are 12 Reps? What about when there are 16 Reps? Hrmm, 16 might be pushing it...lol...we're getting the 5th soon, the 6th will likely be later in the year; leaving 10 more reps and another 5 years...possible, but perhaps pushing it.
But those would be new things that folks wouldn't bother with? They've got their stuff and they're not going to bother? What are they going to be doing then? PvP? Foundry? 3D chatroom?
The 8 Ground and 8 Space passives that we have chosen "define" our characters and playstyle.
Doubling the power and reducing the number that can be active at once possibly changes that playstyle and diminishes the definition of our characters, despite being able to change the powers at will.
Do you ever change weapons? Do you ever change gear? Do you ever change ships? Ever do a skill or trait respec? Do you run more than one item of content? Is the definition of the character not already fluid...?
If in the next Rep there was a trait you wanted instead of one you already had - you wouldn't switch it out? In the Rep after that? After that? C'mon...
There should be a profound difference in power level between someone who rolled a character a week ago, ground out level 50 then pumped out a couple reps, and someone who has been playing a character for three years putting hundreds and hundreds of hours into it and maxing all reps.
Phrasing it as "power creep" treats it as a bad thing, when in truth it is the result of effort and a gain in power is the expected and desired result of that effort.
It is a bad thing. It sets players apart. There's nothing beneficial about that. At all.
Though to be fair, power creep is canon. Back in Kirk's day, they only had Mk VI TRIBBLE, and the Connie was considered a heavy cruiser...
Just so I'm clear here...we bust our butts grinding out the reputation system abilities because we're told "hey, you'll get this great gear and awesome abilities!" only then a year later you come back and say "too much awesome-sauce, we're taking it back!"
That is an aspect about all of this which is, indeed, pretty lame on Cryptic's side. What, nobody in their boardroom could tell *upfront* that the rep system wasn't scalable indefinitely?! Did the responsible dev suddenly go "Oh SNAP!! Guys, this isn't scalable!" last week?
Nerfs sometimes happen, as tweaks, or part of bug fixes. This, however, was a far more deliberate move to simply take things away from ppl. And makes Cryptic an untrustworthy party with regard to future things they let us grind for.
But we have a Dutch saying that goes: "It's better to turn around half-way, than to err in full." So, I'll just grudgingly chalk it off as that.
It is a bad thing. It sets players apart. There's nothing beneficial about that. At all.
Though to be fair, power creep is canon. Back in Kirk's day, they only had Mk VI TRIBBLE, and the Connie was considered a heavy cruiser...
I dunno.
I'm really against brick wall elitism where relatively new endgame toons are hit with an insurmountable obstacle diving them from the old guard "elite", but at the same time I don't think having some small element of power difference between a young hotshot and an aged endgame toon is a bad thing. As long as it's minimal (but measurable) and not a hellish ordeal to acquire, there's no real harm in it.
The problem is people who want to be head, shoulders, chest, waist, groin, and knees above everyone else just because they've been there longer - and that's their only reasoning. That's the kind of elitism that irritates me.
What, nobody in their boardroom could tell *upfront* that the rep system wasn't scalable indefinitely?! Did the responsible dev suddenly go "Oh SNAP!! Guys, this isn't scalable!" last week?
I dislike how this quote makes Cryptic sound incompetent but I'll be damned if that isn't a hilarious mental image.
One little thing.
The "Placate" effect of the Romulan Tier 4 Space ability has been replaced with "Weapons Offline"
To those daring to say this wasn't a nerf, the Placate thing was one of the more valuable abilities out there. But many PvP-ers whined, and whined, and whined about it. And eventually the crybabies, as usual, got their way.
And "Weapons Offline" is a joke; like the Elite Phasers proc.
I'm really against brick wall elitism where relatively new endgame toons are hit with an insurmountable obstacle diving them from the old guard "elite", but at the same time I don't think having some small element of power difference between a young hotshot and an aged endgame toon is a bad thing. As long as it's minimal (but measurable) and not a hellish ordeal to acquire, there's no real harm in it.
The problem is people who want to be head, shoulders, chest, waist, groin, and knees above everyone else just because they've been there longer - and that's their only reasoning. That's the kind of elitism that irritates me.
EDIT
I dislike how this quote makes Cryptic sound incompetent but I'll be damned if that isn't a hilarious mental image.
I don't mind that people want to earn things, It's that they want to earn the right to be set apart from/above their peers. Not only do I find that to be morally nonsensical, it does nothing for the health of the game.
I don't mind earning something to be the cut above the best. Let's say in the Top Gun group. Frankly that's life. There is good then there are best of the best. Just because someone don't understand that, don't bash everyone else who wants to be the best of the best.
I'm really against brick wall elitism where relatively new endgame toons are hit with an insurmountable obstacle diving them from the old guard "elite", but at the same time I don't think having some small element of power difference between a young hotshot and an aged endgame toon is a bad thing. As long as it's minimal (but measurable) and not a hellish ordeal to acquire, there's no real harm in it.
The problem is people who want to be head, shoulders, chest, waist, groin, and knees above everyone else just because they've been there longer - and that's their only reasoning. That's the kind of elitism that irritates me.
The people did not *want* anything: Cryptic forced the rep system on them to begin with. All ppl then did was choose to do the grind, and reap the rewards for it... Or did they?!
And what's with a gap getting too wide? Should ppl not get their PhD, just because that level of education looks too 'insurmountable' and daunting to some lowly high-school drop-out?! Jealousy, it's an ugly green monster... kinda like a Gorn.
The people did not *want* anything: Cryptic forced the rep system on them to begin with. All ppl then did was choose to do the grind, and reap the rewards for it... Or did they?!
And what's with a gap getting too wide? Should ppl not get their PhD, just because that level of education looks too 'insurmountable' and daunting to some lowly high-school drop-out?! Jeaulousy, it's an ugly green monster... kinda like a Gorn.
Comparing an IRL education that actually has meaning to achievement in a video game.
If you can't see why that's a poor comparison, I can't help you.
Granted, and I get that, but does any of it invalidate the larger concern? (I know from reading your posts that you don't disagree with the general point).
Without any sort of coordinated help at all, I can easily get 20k in ISE on my Mogh or my Scimitar. It's easy at 5-10k. Once you break the 15k barrier, the content goes from silly to laughably absurd. I'm not saying that this rep-passive change will fix underwhelming content or overpowered doffs/ships/etc. but I do think it is a step in the right direction. I get that this is a casual game but to paraphrase from your colorful collection, it need not be a tablet app for puppies.
Heh, no doubt I believe we've left ISE far behind with it being a challenge except for players new to it. I can pull 12-14k with Willard dropping out torps while flying around going wheeee - it's not because I'm any good at the game - it's just the toon is so massively overgeared for that content. Heck, the funny thing is that's just with 3x VR Mk XI Warhead Tac Consoles (+18.8% base damage) - they're not ATVx +31.9% specifics or even +27.9% generics. Just crappy ol' +18.8% VR Mk XI generics. But uh...there's also the +25% base from 2pc KHG, there's the +10% non-base form 2pc T'varo, there's the 2pc Protonic for Photons, the 2pc Temporal for Chrons, etc, etc, etc and the overgearing goes on and on. It's funny, cause Willard's beachball alone can outDPS some of my newer toons and he's only firing it 4-5 times if that during a run? He's not even running 5x Sub/SupOp - he's a Sci - only has 5x DOFFs and they're not all VRs. It's an incomplete build that's been massively overgeared almost from the start just being a Reman with Rom BOFFs in a Warbird.
Will the change to the Rep Passives/Traits fix that? Nope, not a chance.
+15% base Weapon Damage
5% chance to do 751.4 Kinetic Damage to Hull
+3% CrtH
Sensor Targeting Assault
+1485 Hull
+25% base Weapon Damage (as a Torp boat, he's flying with 125 Aux)
+10% CrtD
Scaling DRR Debuff (that's subject to positive resistance as diminishing returns)
I didn't list the 2 Actives, because with 4 Active slots...those won't change.
Some might look at that and go...hey, that's a lot! (To which I'd ask why are they both downplaying and saying how much they are at the same time, mind you.) Compared to everything else...it's pittance. It's like handful of chocolate sprinkles on top of the three scoops of chocolate ice cream covered with chocolate syrup on top of a thick slice of chocolate frosted cake.
But it's a proactive step in addressing it (and like they said, they should have done it back with Nukara). We've got a 5th coming out in a couple of weeks or so. Likely a 6th at the end of the year, eh? Two more next year? Two more the year after? It's going to be problematic.
I'm not surprised that they're getting all the backlash...not surprised in the least. For over two years, they've been lowering the bar - nerfing content and oozing power creep. They've invited in the most extremely casual gamers - heck, even non-gamers that are Star Trek fans. Come here - have a blast!
Then they hit them with a few things at once...
1) After two plus years, they're finally fixing the Borg 2pc proc. They noticed again just how off it was while trying to fix the tooltips.
2) They're looking at adding more interruptible interactives and the like to try to get folks to work together, after building up that single-player mentality for over two years.
3) They're saying that there's too much power in the game and that they're going to address it, starting with the Rep Passives. Sure, part of it's folks upset about that - part of it is also likely that they know there's more "nerfs" on they way.
...so for some of those folks, well - they just outright feel lied to and they're ticked off about it. Can totally see that.
I mean, they're not even casual gamers - with all the talk of any of the Rep Grind being "hard" work. Long? Sure. Tedious? Sure. Wondering if you could put some catnip on a backup keyboard and drop the cat on it to do it for you so you don't have to because you're completely bored to tears? Sure! Hard though? WTF? Maybe I'm just reading that wrong - but when I see folks calling it hard...I just go WTF? and reach for the Excedrin from the /facepalm.
But yeah, that's what Cryptic has been pushing for two years...the puppy on the iPhone, the toddler on the iPad - lowering the bar further and further to try to get as many players into the game as possible...and all those players did well for Cryptic, no? All sorts of revenue for them.
Then...this...an apparent change in the way things are going to be? Course they're going to be dipping the pitchforks in tar and lighting them on fire while marching on the Cryptic offices.
Personally, I like the changes and recent announcements there - those mentioned and others. Cause to me, it shows that Cryptic might just be interested in the longevity of the game - rather than it just being a mad cash grab before it all implodes.
And I just realized what time it was...mainly because I noticed I had no idea what I was rambling about or even what post in what thread I was replying to...lol, I do believe I fell asleep at the keyboard and kept on typing...meh.
edit: Yeah, I need some caffeine before I even try to take a look at how this post needs to be edited...lol.
To those daring to say this wasn't a nerf, the Placate thing was one of the more valuable abilities out there. But many PvP-ers whined, and whined, and whined about it. And eventually the crybabies, as usual, got their way.
And "Weapons Offline" is a joke; like the Elite Phasers proc.
For PvE though what is the difference. Can't see you can't shoot you... seems exactly the same to me.
So the only reason you care is for PvP then... so suck it up, learn to play.
Comparing an IRL education that actually has meaning to achievement in a video game.
If you can't see why that's a poor comparison, I can't help you.
Nice sidestep. My point, however, still stand: 'insurmountable' is just a form jealousy (which you then, in some rather twisted logic, interpret as 'elitism' of the other party).
Nice sidestep. My point, however, still stand: 'insurmountable' is just a form jealousy (which you then, in some rather twisted logic, interpret as 'elitism' of the other party).
You get you are arguing with people that likely have just as much if not more of the rep system completed then you do right ?
There is no one here on these forums arguing this is a good move... that has NO rep done. lol
ISE is a problem because the grind is the end game. No other mmo has made reps part of the permanent makeup of toons and part of player power progression. So ISE remains end game content due to it's rep reward and the fact it gives end game currency.
Look what EVERY other mmo does with old and outdated content. They nerf it and nerf it's rewards to reflect that it's something for people that are working there way towards end game. No one bemoans that Scarlet Monastery can be done solo or that's it's far too much of a ease to do because both the rep that it gives plus the instance it's self has nothing to do with end game.
That is how broken STO end game is right now. You have things from previous seasons, in this case many seasons ago as part of the end game.
Then it gets even worse then that because not only is old content that should in no way be part of current end game part of end game, you have the current content being done on day one to boost reps. Reps are the end game in STO. Reps are not a real end game, at least they shouldn't be.
What about when there are 8 Reps? What about when there are 12 Reps? What about when there are 16 Reps? Hrmm, 16 might be pushing it...lol...we're getting the 5th soon, the 6th will likely be later in the year; leaving 10 more reps and another 5 years...possible, but perhaps pushing it.
But those would be new things that folks wouldn't bother with? They've got their stuff and they're not going to bother? What are they going to be doing then? PvP? Foundry? 3D chatroom?
Do you ever change weapons? Do you ever change gear? Do you ever change ships? Ever do a skill or trait respec? Do you run more than one item of content? Is the definition of the character not already fluid...?
If in the next Rep there was a trait you wanted instead of one you already had - you wouldn't switch it out? In the Rep after that? After that? C'mon...
Just doing what Hawk asked. Provide the what and the why. The point is to prevent people from feeling they are losing something now. I get exactly why the change is being proposed the way it is and in some ways I agree with it. At the same time I can understand why people are saying they feel like something is being lost.
My post wasn't to say that builds are so static that they won't change, but that losing half of the passives you count on could significantly alter how someone plays, and that might be too much change. If there are "better" or "more interesting" traits in a future rep, and it makes sense for a particular play style, then absolutely, change it out. That's the beauty of the new system: you don't like a trait, you can change it for free. And note, I said nothing about increasing/scaling the number of slots as we get more reps. Allowing additional slots doesn't help the power creep situation.
As I said, the point should be to limit future power creep without it feeling like we are losing something. As I said 90 pages ago or more, I will hold my final judgement until I actually play with it on Tribble.
What about when there are 8 Reps? What about when there are 12 Reps? What about when there are 16 Reps? Hrmm, 16 might be pushing it...lol...we're getting the 5th soon, the 6th will likely be later in the year; leaving 10 more reps and another 5 years...possible, but perhaps pushing it.
Actually, limiting the rep powers to a 'window' of 8 space powers max will only compound the loss felt which each new rep added. Now you only lose 2 space powers you can slot. But what, indeed, when we have 16 reps completed? The amount you can't concurrently slot any more will only increase drastically.
Actually, limiting the rep powers to a 'window' of 8 space powers max will only compound the loss felt which each new rep added. Now you only lose 2 space powers you can slot. But what, indeed, when we have 16 reps completed? The amount you can't concurrently slot any more will only increase drastically.
Is the only reason your doing the reps for the reputation powers?
If the devs were smart they would make no change to the current rep powers and just not add new rep powers to new reps. If the only reason people are doing reps is for the powers that seems like a problem and maybe you should be finding something else to entice people to do them.
All that this change will lead to is rep power creep. Each rep will have to offer greater and greater rep powers to entice those that did the previous tiers to do the new one.
Actually, limiting the rep powers to a 'window' of 8 space powers max will only compound the loss felt which each new rep added. Now you only lose 2 space powers you can slot. But what, indeed, when we have 16 reps completed? The amount you can't concurrently slot any more will only increase drastically.
Are really saying it should be ok for a level 50 to have 16+ rep passives while a new 50 would have zero ? That makes almost no sense. (unless you are suggesting they just nerf the heck out of each trait thats cool to... perhaps instead of +10 CRTD or +20 CRTD that passive should be giving us +2.5 CrtD... at that point they can go for 3 or 4 years before rep becomes an issue)
The only way we get to keep ALL reps earned now and in the future is if they raise the level cap.
So hey if that's what you want turn on your PvEr me me me cannon and blast the Devs till they give in.
I'm fine with having to grind Advanced Fleet ships... and then Tier 7 Fleet ships..... and MK XIV and later MK XVI.
What the heck I'm here anyway might as well grind 24/7 right. lol
Please note...I'm 3/4 asleep, 3/8 between, and 1/8 awake as I type this.
Addressing the PvE Gap!
Implement an internal scoring mechanic. Give everything an internal score - gear, traits, rep, etc, etc, etc. Take into account the played time on the toon and the played time on the account. Etc, etc, etc.
Implement PvE Queue matchmaking based on that internal score.
You won't have the 5k DPS guys complaining they didn't get to do anything because of the 30k DPS guys. You won't have the 30k DPS guys mocking the 5k DPS guys.
The gap's still there...the gap's not just in everybody's faces.
Addressing the Lack of PvE Difficulty!
After implementing the above, implement a third difficulty setting for the queues. Content difficulty to be modified based on the average internal score for the group. Optional! But those that want the more difficult challenge based on what they're all rolling with...could have it while rolling with all their goodies instead of having to go the minimalist route to create the challenge for themselves by flying T1 boats, etc, etc, etc.
Just doing what Hawk asked. Provide the what and the why. The point is to prevent people from feeling they are losing something now. I get exactly why the change is being proposed the way it is and in some ways I agree with it. At the same time I can understand why people are saying they feel like something is being lost.
Meh, my posting of late - yeah - not my best posting. It's all over the place. Was mainly a case of not even replying to you specifically with that as much as asking some general questions based on that to those that had been posting along the lines of that...because yes, it should be easy to see where folks can feel they're losing out (though not necessarily with all the melodrama some have attached to it).
Comments
There should be a difference...and it should be with the player and not the character. That player that's been playing for three years should...
have such a depth of knowledge about the game's mechanics that the new player's brain would turn to mush after a 15s conversation
be able to fly their ship with their pinkytoes while eating a sandwich, typing on the forums, watching silly cat videos on YouTube, and thinking about what they'll be doing this upcoming weekend while the new player is still forgetting more than half of what they've got for abilities and fatfingering the rest
etc, etc, etc
However, it appears that so many players in this thread would prefer to have everything not be about them - so that after playing for three years...
they know less about the game than they did on day one
everything's on the spacebar so they don't have to remember anything or risk fatfingering it
etc, etc, etc
The 8 Ground and 8 Space passives that we have chosen "define" our characters and playstyle.
Doubling the power and reducing the number that can be active at once possibly changes that playstyle and diminishes the definition of our characters, despite being able to change the powers at will.
I think a system that had 8 buckets for each space and ground with passives that were at the same power level as they currently are would be more welcomed than the proposed change.
To go back to the coin metaphore, our nickels are "rare". We have spent time finding them, digging them out of mud, searching swap meets, bidding at auctions... You're offering newly minted dimes. While the monetary value of the nickels isn't the same as the dimes, there is significant value in other terms, particularly in that the nickels have more "sentimental" value.
Scale the number of available passive slots with the number of fully (Tier 5) unlocked reputations.
Start with a base of 2 passive slots available. Then with each reputation that reaches Tier 5, it unlocks an additional passive slot.
What does this mean for us veterans that have the 4 current reputations maxed out?
We would have 2 (base) + 4 (T5 reps) = 6 passive slots available.
What does this mean for new players?
They would start with 2 passive slots, then expand their slots with each reputation fully unlocked. This gives the sense of accomplishment many have mentioned. Something to keep the rep grind worth doing that has an effect on end-game content.
This would automatically help with new reputations that are added later (like the pending Undine rep). If a player were to grind out the new rep (in addition to having the other 4 fully unlocked) they would then have 2 (base) + 5 (T5 reps) = 7 passive slots.
Being that each new reputation adds 4 passives, I think adding the an additional passive slot is justifiable. You allow players to use some of the newer passives, without making them totally sacrifice the 'older' ones.
For the visual inclined, it would look something like this:
1st T5 Rep: 2 (base) + 1 (T5 Reps) = 3 Passive Slots
2nd T5 Rep: 2 (base) + 2 (T5 Reps) = 4 Passive Slots
3rd T5 Rep: 2 (base) + 3 (T5 Reps) = 5 Passive Slots
4th T5 Rep: 2 (base) + 4 (T5 Reps) = 6 Passive Slots
5th T5 Rep: 2 (base) + 5 (T5 Reps) = 7 Passive Slots
ETC...
^QFT
Cryptic, you're not addressing the REAL problem with the game systems. You're only providing a way to make yourselves more dirty money.
I didn't buy an LTS to Star Grind Online five years ago. I thought there was a "Trek" in there somewhere.
Granted, and I get that, but does any of it invalidate the larger concern? (I know from reading your posts that you don't disagree with the general point).
Without any sort of coordinated help at all, I can easily get 20k in ISE on my Mogh or my Scimitar. It's easy at 5-10k. Once you break the 15k barrier, the content goes from silly to laughably absurd. I'm not saying that this rep-passive change will fix underwhelming content or overpowered doffs/ships/etc. but I do think it is a step in the right direction. I get that this is a casual game but to paraphrase from your colorful collection, it need not be a tablet app for puppies.
Let me run this by you, and see if I got this right:
"All players will have four slots for passive Ground powers, four slots for passive Space powers, and four slots for Active powers"
So, the way I read that, is 1 group of 4 passive ground powers, and 1 group of 4 passive space powers, plus 1 group of 4 active powers, period (ground or space). So, 8 space power in total, if you want, right?
What about when there are 8 Reps? What about when there are 12 Reps? What about when there are 16 Reps? Hrmm, 16 might be pushing it...lol...we're getting the 5th soon, the 6th will likely be later in the year; leaving 10 more reps and another 5 years...possible, but perhaps pushing it.
But those would be new things that folks wouldn't bother with? They've got their stuff and they're not going to bother? What are they going to be doing then? PvP? Foundry? 3D chatroom?
Do you ever change weapons? Do you ever change gear? Do you ever change ships? Ever do a skill or trait respec? Do you run more than one item of content? Is the definition of the character not already fluid...?
If in the next Rep there was a trait you wanted instead of one you already had - you wouldn't switch it out? In the Rep after that? After that? C'mon...
It is a bad thing. It sets players apart. There's nothing beneficial about that. At all.
Though to be fair, power creep is canon. Back in Kirk's day, they only had Mk VI TRIBBLE, and the Connie was considered a heavy cruiser...
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That is an aspect about all of this which is, indeed, pretty lame on Cryptic's side. What, nobody in their boardroom could tell *upfront* that the rep system wasn't scalable indefinitely?! Did the responsible dev suddenly go "Oh SNAP!! Guys, this isn't scalable!" last week?
Nerfs sometimes happen, as tweaks, or part of bug fixes. This, however, was a far more deliberate move to simply take things away from ppl. And makes Cryptic an untrustworthy party with regard to future things they let us grind for.
But we have a Dutch saying that goes: "It's better to turn around half-way, than to err in full." So, I'll just grudgingly chalk it off as that.
I dunno.
I'm really against brick wall elitism where relatively new endgame toons are hit with an insurmountable obstacle diving them from the old guard "elite", but at the same time I don't think having some small element of power difference between a young hotshot and an aged endgame toon is a bad thing. As long as it's minimal (but measurable) and not a hellish ordeal to acquire, there's no real harm in it.
The problem is people who want to be head, shoulders, chest, waist, groin, and knees above everyone else just because they've been there longer - and that's their only reasoning. That's the kind of elitism that irritates me.
EDIT I dislike how this quote makes Cryptic sound incompetent but I'll be damned if that isn't a hilarious mental image.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
To those daring to say this wasn't a nerf, the Placate thing was one of the more valuable abilities out there. But many PvP-ers whined, and whined, and whined about it. And eventually the crybabies, as usual, got their way.
And "Weapons Offline" is a joke; like the Elite Phasers proc.
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The people did not *want* anything: Cryptic forced the rep system on them to begin with. All ppl then did was choose to do the grind, and reap the rewards for it... Or did they?!
And what's with a gap getting too wide? Should ppl not get their PhD, just because that level of education looks too 'insurmountable' and daunting to some lowly high-school drop-out?! Jealousy, it's an ugly green monster... kinda like a Gorn.
Comparing an IRL education that actually has meaning to achievement in a video game.
If you can't see why that's a poor comparison, I can't help you.
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Heh, no doubt I believe we've left ISE far behind with it being a challenge except for players new to it. I can pull 12-14k with Willard dropping out torps while flying around going wheeee - it's not because I'm any good at the game - it's just the toon is so massively overgeared for that content. Heck, the funny thing is that's just with 3x VR Mk XI Warhead Tac Consoles (+18.8% base damage) - they're not ATVx +31.9% specifics or even +27.9% generics. Just crappy ol' +18.8% VR Mk XI generics. But uh...there's also the +25% base from 2pc KHG, there's the +10% non-base form 2pc T'varo, there's the 2pc Protonic for Photons, the 2pc Temporal for Chrons, etc, etc, etc and the overgearing goes on and on. It's funny, cause Willard's beachball alone can outDPS some of my newer toons and he's only firing it 4-5 times if that during a run? He's not even running 5x Sub/SupOp - he's a Sci - only has 5x DOFFs and they're not all VRs. It's an incomplete build that's been massively overgeared almost from the start just being a Reman with Rom BOFFs in a Warbird.
Will the change to the Rep Passives/Traits fix that? Nope, not a chance.
+15% base Weapon Damage
5% chance to do 751.4 Kinetic Damage to Hull
+3% CrtH
Sensor Targeting Assault
+1485 Hull
+25% base Weapon Damage (as a Torp boat, he's flying with 125 Aux)
+10% CrtD
Scaling DRR Debuff (that's subject to positive resistance as diminishing returns)
I didn't list the 2 Actives, because with 4 Active slots...those won't change.
Some might look at that and go...hey, that's a lot! (To which I'd ask why are they both downplaying and saying how much they are at the same time, mind you.) Compared to everything else...it's pittance. It's like handful of chocolate sprinkles on top of the three scoops of chocolate ice cream covered with chocolate syrup on top of a thick slice of chocolate frosted cake.
But it's a proactive step in addressing it (and like they said, they should have done it back with Nukara). We've got a 5th coming out in a couple of weeks or so. Likely a 6th at the end of the year, eh? Two more next year? Two more the year after? It's going to be problematic.
I'm not surprised that they're getting all the backlash...not surprised in the least. For over two years, they've been lowering the bar - nerfing content and oozing power creep. They've invited in the most extremely casual gamers - heck, even non-gamers that are Star Trek fans. Come here - have a blast!
Then they hit them with a few things at once...
1) After two plus years, they're finally fixing the Borg 2pc proc. They noticed again just how off it was while trying to fix the tooltips.
2) They're looking at adding more interruptible interactives and the like to try to get folks to work together, after building up that single-player mentality for over two years.
3) They're saying that there's too much power in the game and that they're going to address it, starting with the Rep Passives. Sure, part of it's folks upset about that - part of it is also likely that they know there's more "nerfs" on they way.
...so for some of those folks, well - they just outright feel lied to and they're ticked off about it. Can totally see that.
I mean, they're not even casual gamers - with all the talk of any of the Rep Grind being "hard" work. Long? Sure. Tedious? Sure. Wondering if you could put some catnip on a backup keyboard and drop the cat on it to do it for you so you don't have to because you're completely bored to tears? Sure! Hard though? WTF? Maybe I'm just reading that wrong - but when I see folks calling it hard...I just go WTF? and reach for the Excedrin from the /facepalm.
But yeah, that's what Cryptic has been pushing for two years...the puppy on the iPhone, the toddler on the iPad - lowering the bar further and further to try to get as many players into the game as possible...and all those players did well for Cryptic, no? All sorts of revenue for them.
Then...this...an apparent change in the way things are going to be? Course they're going to be dipping the pitchforks in tar and lighting them on fire while marching on the Cryptic offices.
Personally, I like the changes and recent announcements there - those mentioned and others. Cause to me, it shows that Cryptic might just be interested in the longevity of the game - rather than it just being a mad cash grab before it all implodes.
And I just realized what time it was...mainly because I noticed I had no idea what I was rambling about or even what post in what thread I was replying to...lol, I do believe I fell asleep at the keyboard and kept on typing...meh.
edit: Yeah, I need some caffeine before I even try to take a look at how this post needs to be edited...lol.
For PvE though what is the difference. Can't see you can't shoot you... seems exactly the same to me.
So the only reason you care is for PvP then... so suck it up, learn to play.
Nice sidestep. My point, however, still stand: 'insurmountable' is just a form jealousy (which you then, in some rather twisted logic, interpret as 'elitism' of the other party).
You get you are arguing with people that likely have just as much if not more of the rep system completed then you do right ?
There is no one here on these forums arguing this is a good move... that has NO rep done. lol
Strange reasonings going on tonight.
'Weapons offline' does as good as nothing on a Borg cube; and you know it. That's because the Borg, and lots of NPC's, cheat a bit.
'Placate' at least was useful in things like Starbase Defense.
Sorry, I don't PvP; and never will.
Look what EVERY other mmo does with old and outdated content. They nerf it and nerf it's rewards to reflect that it's something for people that are working there way towards end game. No one bemoans that Scarlet Monastery can be done solo or that's it's far too much of a ease to do because both the rep that it gives plus the instance it's self has nothing to do with end game.
That is how broken STO end game is right now. You have things from previous seasons, in this case many seasons ago as part of the end game.
Then it gets even worse then that because not only is old content that should in no way be part of current end game part of end game, you have the current content being done on day one to boost reps. Reps are the end game in STO. Reps are not a real end game, at least they shouldn't be.
Just doing what Hawk asked. Provide the what and the why. The point is to prevent people from feeling they are losing something now. I get exactly why the change is being proposed the way it is and in some ways I agree with it. At the same time I can understand why people are saying they feel like something is being lost.
My post wasn't to say that builds are so static that they won't change, but that losing half of the passives you count on could significantly alter how someone plays, and that might be too much change. If there are "better" or "more interesting" traits in a future rep, and it makes sense for a particular play style, then absolutely, change it out. That's the beauty of the new system: you don't like a trait, you can change it for free. And note, I said nothing about increasing/scaling the number of slots as we get more reps. Allowing additional slots doesn't help the power creep situation.
As I said, the point should be to limit future power creep without it feeling like we are losing something. As I said 90 pages ago or more, I will hold my final judgement until I actually play with it on Tribble.
Yes, which makes their '
Actually, limiting the rep powers to a 'window' of 8 space powers max will only compound the loss felt which each new rep added. Now you only lose 2 space powers you can slot. But what, indeed, when we have 16 reps completed? The amount you can't concurrently slot any more will only increase drastically.
Is the only reason your doing the reps for the reputation powers?
If the devs were smart they would make no change to the current rep powers and just not add new rep powers to new reps. If the only reason people are doing reps is for the powers that seems like a problem and maybe you should be finding something else to entice people to do them.
All that this change will lead to is rep power creep. Each rep will have to offer greater and greater rep powers to entice those that did the previous tiers to do the new one.
Are really saying it should be ok for a level 50 to have 16+ rep passives while a new 50 would have zero ? That makes almost no sense. (unless you are suggesting they just nerf the heck out of each trait thats cool to... perhaps instead of +10 CRTD or +20 CRTD that passive should be giving us +2.5 CrtD... at that point they can go for 3 or 4 years before rep becomes an issue)
The only way we get to keep ALL reps earned now and in the future is if they raise the level cap.
So hey if that's what you want turn on your PvEr me me me cannon and blast the Devs till they give in.
I'm fine with having to grind Advanced Fleet ships... and then Tier 7 Fleet ships..... and MK XIV and later MK XVI.
What the heck I'm here anyway might as well grind 24/7 right. lol
Addressing the PvE Gap!
Implement an internal scoring mechanic. Give everything an internal score - gear, traits, rep, etc, etc, etc. Take into account the played time on the toon and the played time on the account. Etc, etc, etc.
Implement PvE Queue matchmaking based on that internal score.
You won't have the 5k DPS guys complaining they didn't get to do anything because of the 30k DPS guys. You won't have the 30k DPS guys mocking the 5k DPS guys.
The gap's still there...the gap's not just in everybody's faces.
Addressing the Lack of PvE Difficulty!
After implementing the above, implement a third difficulty setting for the queues. Content difficulty to be modified based on the average internal score for the group. Optional! But those that want the more difficult challenge based on what they're all rolling with...could have it while rolling with all their goodies instead of having to go the minimalist route to create the challenge for themselves by flying T1 boats, etc, etc, etc.
Meh, my posting of late - yeah - not my best posting. It's all over the place. Was mainly a case of not even replying to you specifically with that as much as asking some general questions based on that to those that had been posting along the lines of that...because yes, it should be easy to see where folks can feel they're losing out (though not necessarily with all the melodrama some have attached to it).
Shhhh, that's why there's been no T5 Connie...they're saving it for T7. :P