Had another tour of the facility, this time with decent graphics settings. Space map first:
When flying towards Earth at Full Impulse, you don't appear to get closer to it, and you have to look at the map to confirm you're actually moving when there are no other reference points. ie. Start at the warp-in point, head a few degrees left of ESD, and hit Full Impulse. ESD disappears behind you in a couple of seconds, then the drydocks whizz by, then you keep going for at least 45 seconds, with ESD becoming an ever-smaller shape behind you, yet Earth does not change size.
Earth is now in the skyfile, meaning it moves with you the same way the sun appears to. You can never get closer/farther from it.
More trade offs. Is it better to have a smaller earth, which you can fly around, but might feel stupidly tiny for a planet. . . or a skyfile Earth, that is huge, and makes space feel like space, but never changes in your view?
[*]I cannot fit my Armitage (a relatively small ship, especially compared to a Sovereign) into the drydocks. These drydocks are the same style as the Enterprise-B, an Excelsior-class, was launched from. This is particularly annoying when you look out of the Ops window and see an Akira/Armitage docked at one of them.
Already reported, I'll take a look at the drydocks when I can. The main problem is their design. The older drydocks were big squares. These are designed to fit the (very flat) sovereign. In order to make them fit other things, I will likely have to blow them up to ridiculous sizes.
[*]Ensign Gol's boots are floating at knee-height
[*]The damage control locker graphics sometimes disappear when turning, especially when the camera has just been looking through glass
[*]Isn't that Sovereign flying a bit close to ESD?
Who?
I'll take a look.
Not really, the Sovvie is pretty big, and not that close.
[*]The external Ops windows reflect plants, and there aren't any in Ops
[*]Is that a Shadow Battlecrab on the map in the Admiral's office (just above and to the left of the Atrox)?
[*]The glass ramps still don't look there, even with max graphics settings. It is better going down than going up, though. Maybe add some bolts to the inside edges of the opaque parts, so it gives a sense that they're supporting something between them?
It won't in the next patch.
No idea, you'll have to ask Thomas the Cat
I don't want to add bolts. I can try to make the reflections more apparent, but I don't want the glass to get stupidly shiny.
[*]Does the shuttlebay doorway need to be so tall? It strikes me that it wouldn't be very practical to engineer a hole in a wall twice as high as the ones either side of it, especially when it's leading to an area that would be open to space in the event of a power failure
[*]Will the "take a shuttle to SFA" interact give you a cutscene of the journey as the SFA map loads?
[*]Can we have a new NPC for the interact? At the moment it uses the Transporter Chief
Not everything is done purely out of function. Somethings are decorative or architectural in nature. It's tall because it draws your eye down that way and then up, helps you see the space more clearly, and makes it easier to notice there's a shuttlebay back there.
I don't think we have any time to make a cut scene for SFA.
I'll talk to our designer.
[*]Class 8 shuttle engine glows still don't match up to the tailpipes. Might want to prod the FX guys
[*]The seating areas on the upper walkway would be good places to put a 3D chessboard or a telescope (to get a better view of the ships in dock)
[*]The big wall signs ("Requisitions", "Sickbay", etc) might be better slightly lower. This would make them a bit easier for shorter characters to eyeline.
They do need a slight LOD pass (they only get crisp after standing in front of them for a few seconds). I think as far as the textures go, yea, they do seem a bit stuck on. Easy solution: add some inside shadows to the texture so they seem a bit sunken in to the wall. Its a quick solution too, any one with photoshop could do it in 10 seconds. Problem solved.
This is not an LOD issue, this is a mipmap thing, and is largely dependent on the texture memory you're using at the time. Nothing I can really do about it.
Why an engineer at the nurse's desk at the sickbay?
Will the auditorium where the promotion ceremonies are held be returning?
I still believe that a 'directory signs' like on DS9 could be placed on the second and third levels so the areas like infront of the sickbay don't seem plain.
Still waiting for a character pass.
Nope, at least not for S9.
Maybe
Voth Medic's button still says 'Open Door'.
The Romulan Ambassador character label says and the button still says 'Talk to Commander'
The Market Speculator should really be facing the Exchange and not the Bank, also a Ferengi business man could e added next to her with the two of them having a 'conversation'
When a character is up close to the invisible wall in the shuttle bay, their shadow moves up the wall.
I think the idea is that ESD is in geosynchronous orbit over San Fransisco, and since we would have to match in order to dock, the Earth would not appear to rotate for it or us. The stars would move, I think (I'm no astrophysicist), but that might be too disorienting for players and I would understand why Taco wouldn't implement that.
Earth wouldn't rotate for someone standing on ESD. The stars/sun/moon would appear to move around them the same way they do the earth.
Sadly I cannot replicate proper rotations on everything within the current systems I have available. Static will have to suffice.
Originally Posted by pfreeman View Post
PS, as per Chat I still think the Balcony should be called "Deck 46" as it is clear that there are doors on either end going off into other parts of the station, making that Deck 46, or maybe even Deck 45 (I think there could be enough space there for another 'regular height' deck to fit between the balcony & the main area)
See above. But if we were to give it it's own designation, and given a deck height of roughly 20', it would be deck 43.
*I would like to note that sto uses absurdly high ceilings in all but the newest stuff. tv shows support a deck height of 12-16 feet.
*45 or 46 wound sound sounds pretty decent considering the height above deck43.
*I was in the navy, and that's how you find your way around a navy ship. the deck number, the frame number, then the compartment number from the centerline (odd numbers starboard, even port, and 0 is for the centerline), then a letter denoting the basic function of the space.
*it makes perfect sense to me that everything within frame 151 is marked as frame 151. and that the frames at that level are circular in nature.
Since ESD doesn't really have a centerline, and since the frames are all 2º apart, we just numbered them from 1-180 starting with the docking door facing earth. Our interior is at 300º from that door, so Frame 150.
Standing in Ops gazing out over Earth, I find myself thinking that the passing Sovereign Class looked rather small. Due to it's closeness to the station window, it should be HUGE, to the point of pretty much covering your entire view when it passes by.
Since ESD doesn't really have a centerline, and since the frames are all 2º apart, we just numbered them from 1-180 starting with the docking door facing earth. Our interior is at 300º from that door, so Frame 150.
*that's what I figured. only two ways to do it when dealing with a round structure. label the frames by degrees, or just the actual frame count. in the is case, the deck number, something denoting the outer shell, then the frame count for a block in that outer shell. or have the central block use a different system after the designator of the central block.
*I was on a carrier. 266 frames, each frame about 4 feet apart, with a couple of extra frames in front of them at certain levels (using letters). a system based on counting primary frame members makes perfect sense. there were callouts of a couple different types so you could keep a running position as you closed in on your destination.
*only takes a week or two, and then a month to stop getting lost on a ship as big as a carrier as you learn destinations and routes.
*please note, this is why I immediately noted the numbers on the primary frames and then noted the frame numbers on the bulkheads and that they were all what they should be. it was actually the first thing I noted.
*this would be a good idea. the one next to the personnel requisition building would probably work.
The building next to the Starfleet Academy main building would make a decent transporter room or one could be installed to the main building at least, the random spawning is kind of a pet peev.
Standing in Ops gazing out over Earth, I find myself thinking that the passing Sovereign Class looked rather small. Due to it's closeness to the station window, it should be HUGE, to the point of pretty much covering your entire view when it passes by.
If the sovereign class was close enough to cover the entire view, it would be nearly touching the station, it isn't that big compared to ESD. It is only around 685 meters long.
Compared to the diameter of ESD which is around 3.8km
If the sovereign class was close enough to cover the entire view, it would be nearly touching the station, it isn't that big compared to ESD. It is only around 685 meters long.
Compared to the diameter of ESD which is around 3.8km
It may be 685 meters long, but it has 24 Decks. An average Human being is around 1.7 meters in height, and a single deck of a starship is around 3.5 meters in height. If you look at (best example) the stardrive of the Sovereign, you see multiple rows of windows. Each window row exists on a single deck. As you can plainly see on ESD (on Tribble), those window rows look incredibly tiny. If you've ever seen an episode of TNG, or Voyager, you'd know that those windows are rather large (as seen from the inside).
Basically, the Sovereign that passes by the ops window, needs to be upscaled. By how much, I do not know. But I do know, the current size is far too small.
It may be 685 meters long, but it has 24 Decks. An average Human being is around 1.7 meters in height, and a single deck of a starship is around 3.5 meters in height. If you look at (best example) the stardrive of the Sovereign, you see multiple rows of windows. Each window row exists on a single deck. As you can plainly see on ESD (on Tribble), those window rows look incredibly tiny. If you've ever seen an episode of TNG, or Voyager, you'd know that those windows are rather large (as seen from the inside).
Basically, the Sovereign that passes by the ops window, needs to be upscaled. By how much, I do not know. But I do know, the current size is far too small.
The Sovy and Oddy is just further away and you also have to factor in a bit of suspension of disbelief.
One thing I can see that will need to be changed, ESDs Earth model is way too small compared to the one outside of the station, the exterior Earth has been given a much more realistic sense of scale, but the one inside the station is now tiny in comparison.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
The Sovy and Oddy is just further away and you also have to factor in a bit of suspension of disbelief.
One thing I can see that will need to be changed, ESDs Earth model is way too small compared to the one outside of the station, the exterior Earth has been given a much more realistic sense of scale, but the one inside the station is now tiny in comparison.
Taco said they're working on that, but it is unlikely to change because it would throw the lighting off.
Yes, we could scale it down a bit. But Earth is huge, and I wanted to get that "OMG! I'M IN SPACE" feel, which I think we lack in a lot of places.
Unfortunately I can't do a full 3D earth model on the interior to match, because lighting it would break the lighting for the rest of the map. I'm stuck with what we have. I will try to update the texture a little, but no promises, we are rapidly running out of time to work on this.
hmm, coulda sworn someone said it was supposed to be over San Fransisco. Oh well. Atlantic it is!
I'm not sure it's ever mentioned anywhere in canon WHAT ESD is in Geosynchronous orbit over. . . but there was somewhere that listed the Atlantic Ocean (theory being that if it fell, it would fall into the ocean, rather than onto San Francisco).
This is exactly the problem. All characters have collision bubbles. They're pill shaped capsules used for collision rather than the full geo of the character. This includes ships.
While the ship team endeavors to get the capsule as close to the right size for the ship as possible, it's always going to be a square peg in a round hole. It's just not going to line up perfectly. In general, that means the collision is oversized slightly, so that you don't end up hiding other ships within your own hull.
No, your bigger (taller) ships will never fit in there. So, the question is what to do about that. I don't want to go back to using 2200's era drydocks. I can make them bigger, which might be ok, but they'd have to be significantly bigger to fit most ships. I could turn off collision on them entirely, which would let you park anything in there, but you could fly through the whole thing . . .
Standing in Ops gazing out over Earth, I find myself thinking that the passing Sovereign Class looked rather small. Due to it's closeness to the station window, it should be HUGE, to the point of pretty much covering your entire view when it passes by.
Speaking of, McKinley Station is also in Earth Orbit. Any chance of a model addition to the Earth space map?
It's not THAT close. It is to scale with the rest of the ships parked/flying around out there.
Remember that McKinley is basically just a drydock. It is barely larger than a galaxy class. It would be invisible at any distance, and chances are, it's not parked next to ESD.
This is exactly the problem. All characters have collision bubbles. They're pill shaped capsules used for collision rather than the full geo of the character. This includes ships.
While the ship team endeavors to get the capsule as close to the right size for the ship as possible, it's always going to be a square peg in a round hole. It's just not going to line up perfectly. In general, that means the collision is oversized slightly, so that you don't end up hiding other ships within your own hull.
No, your bigger (taller) ships will never fit in there. So, the question is what to do about that. I don't want to go back to using 2200's era drydocks. I can make them bigger, which might be ok, but they'd have to be significantly bigger to fit most ships. I could turn off collision on them entirely, which would let you park anything in there, but you could fly through the whole thing . . .
Opinions?
Maybe a mix of Drydocks? I mean if starfleet isn't throwing out old hulls, then they're probably not throwing out old Drydocks either. Some of the 2200 Drydocks could be around. Or, if you're concerned about that, what about the Drydocks from the Fleet Starbase? They're a more modern design and they can even fit an Odyssey-class.
Beyond that the only real solution (because I think turning off collision is bad) would be to scale up these drydocks.
I'm not sure it's ever mentioned anywhere in canon WHAT ESD is in Geosynchronous orbit over. . . but there was somewhere that listed the Atlantic Ocean (theory being that if it fell, it would fall into the ocean, rather than onto San Francisco).
Actually, due to the rotation of the Earth, if it were over the Atlantic when it fell, wouldn't it fall onto North America? If it were over San Francisco, it would fall into the Pacific.
This is exactly the problem. All characters have collision bubbles. They're pill shaped capsules used for collision rather than the full geo of the character. This includes ships.
While the ship team endeavors to get the capsule as close to the right size for the ship as possible, it's always going to be a square peg in a round hole. It's just not going to line up perfectly. In general, that means the collision is oversized slightly, so that you don't end up hiding other ships within your own hull.
No, your bigger (taller) ships will never fit in there. So, the question is what to do about that. I don't want to go back to using 2200's era drydocks. I can make them bigger, which might be ok, but they'd have to be significantly bigger to fit most ships. I could turn off collision on them entirely, which would let you park anything in there, but you could fly through the whole thing . . .
Opinions?
How is the collision oriented on the drydock? Can you reduce it to just being over the solid part with no collision on the sides? Can collision here be in separate parts or does it have to be in pill form? If separate parts, can you have basically 3 collision bubbles, one on top along the solid spine, and one on the outside part of each side?
Why not add in a mixture of different style drydocks, since it would appear that not all ships would be capable of fitting in the type seen in Nemesis. For example, in addition to the Nemesis drydock they could add the dock section from the fleet shipyards:
Comments
In that case, they're even larger (by about 33%), and an Armitage should definitely fit.
Taco said he may change the collision box so you can fit in it.
Earth is now in the skyfile, meaning it moves with you the same way the sun appears to. You can never get closer/farther from it.
More trade offs. Is it better to have a smaller earth, which you can fly around, but might feel stupidly tiny for a planet. . . or a skyfile Earth, that is huge, and makes space feel like space, but never changes in your view?
I prefer the latter.
Already reported, I'll take a look at the drydocks when I can. The main problem is their design. The older drydocks were big squares. These are designed to fit the (very flat) sovereign. In order to make them fit other things, I will likely have to blow them up to ridiculous sizes.
Who?
I'll take a look.
Not really, the Sovvie is pretty big, and not that close.
It won't in the next patch.
No idea, you'll have to ask Thomas the Cat
I don't want to add bolts. I can try to make the reflections more apparent, but I don't want the glass to get stupidly shiny.
Not everything is done purely out of function. Somethings are decorative or architectural in nature. It's tall because it draws your eye down that way and then up, helps you see the space more clearly, and makes it easier to notice there's a shuttlebay back there.
I don't think we have any time to make a cut scene for SFA.
I'll talk to our designer.
Yup.
Maybe.
There's no where to put it lower.
This is not an LOD issue, this is a mipmap thing, and is largely dependent on the texture memory you're using at the time. Nothing I can really do about it.
Still waiting for a character pass.
Nope, at least not for S9.
Maybe
Design isn't done.
Design isn't done.
Earth wouldn't rotate for someone standing on ESD. The stars/sun/moon would appear to move around them the same way they do the earth.
Sadly I cannot replicate proper rotations on everything within the current systems I have available. Static will have to suffice.
Correct.
PS, as per Chat I still think the Balcony should be called "Deck 46" as it is clear that there are doors on either end going off into other parts of the station, making that Deck 46, or maybe even Deck 45 (I think there could be enough space there for another 'regular height' deck to fit between the balcony & the main area)
See above. But if we were to give it it's own designation, and given a deck height of roughly 20', it would be deck 43.
*I would like to note that sto uses absurdly high ceilings in all but the newest stuff. tv shows support a deck height of 12-16 feet.
*45 or 46 wound sound sounds pretty decent considering the height above deck43.
Anyways the Armitage is wider then the sovereign and the sovereign just fits inside the dock if you look at the screen from Nemesis.
So it really should not fit in the dock.
Since ESD doesn't really have a centerline, and since the frames are all 2º apart, we just numbered them from 1-180 starting with the docking door facing earth. Our interior is at 300º from that door, so Frame 150.
*this would be a good idea. the one next to the personnel requisition building would probably work.
http://puu.sh/7KE9B.jpg
http://puu.sh/7KE5p.jpg
*ah, to be addressed in Season9, gotcha...that makes more sense.
Speaking of, McKinley Station is also in Earth Orbit. Any chance of a model addition to the Earth space map?
*that's what I figured. only two ways to do it when dealing with a round structure. label the frames by degrees, or just the actual frame count. in the is case, the deck number, something denoting the outer shell, then the frame count for a block in that outer shell. or have the central block use a different system after the designator of the central block.
*I was on a carrier. 266 frames, each frame about 4 feet apart, with a couple of extra frames in front of them at certain levels (using letters). a system based on counting primary frame members makes perfect sense. there were callouts of a couple different types so you could keep a running position as you closed in on your destination.
*only takes a week or two, and then a month to stop getting lost on a ship as big as a carrier as you learn destinations and routes.
*please note, this is why I immediately noted the numbers on the primary frames and then noted the frame numbers on the bulkheads and that they were all what they should be. it was actually the first thing I noted.
As long as the Voth Medic doesn't ask me to grab his 'door handle' I suppose I'll fine.
If the sovereign class was close enough to cover the entire view, it would be nearly touching the station, it isn't that big compared to ESD. It is only around 685 meters long.
Compared to the diameter of ESD which is around 3.8km
It may be 685 meters long, but it has 24 Decks. An average Human being is around 1.7 meters in height, and a single deck of a starship is around 3.5 meters in height. If you look at (best example) the stardrive of the Sovereign, you see multiple rows of windows. Each window row exists on a single deck. As you can plainly see on ESD (on Tribble), those window rows look incredibly tiny. If you've ever seen an episode of TNG, or Voyager, you'd know that those windows are rather large (as seen from the inside).
Basically, the Sovereign that passes by the ops window, needs to be upscaled. By how much, I do not know. But I do know, the current size is far too small.
it is actually pretty far from the window, look
http://puu.sh/7KIfc.jpg
http://puu.sh/7KIhs.jpg
http://puu.sh/7KIjs.jpg
http://puu.sh/7KIm5.jpg
http://puu.sh/7KIF7.jpg
It is as big as you suggest it is, it is just far from the window
Taco loves making sure things to scale where possible, I'm sure the Sovereign is the correct size
One thing I can see that will need to be changed, ESDs Earth model is way too small compared to the one outside of the station, the exterior Earth has been given a much more realistic sense of scale, but the one inside the station is now tiny in comparison.
Taco said they're working on that, but it is unlikely to change because it would throw the lighting off.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=15950521&postcount=444
I'm not sure it's ever mentioned anywhere in canon WHAT ESD is in Geosynchronous orbit over. . . but there was somewhere that listed the Atlantic Ocean (theory being that if it fell, it would fall into the ocean, rather than onto San Francisco).
This is exactly the problem. All characters have collision bubbles. They're pill shaped capsules used for collision rather than the full geo of the character. This includes ships.
While the ship team endeavors to get the capsule as close to the right size for the ship as possible, it's always going to be a square peg in a round hole. It's just not going to line up perfectly. In general, that means the collision is oversized slightly, so that you don't end up hiding other ships within your own hull.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/22290667@N08/13435380294
No, your bigger (taller) ships will never fit in there. So, the question is what to do about that. I don't want to go back to using 2200's era drydocks. I can make them bigger, which might be ok, but they'd have to be significantly bigger to fit most ships. I could turn off collision on them entirely, which would let you park anything in there, but you could fly through the whole thing . . .
Opinions?
It's not THAT close. It is to scale with the rest of the ships parked/flying around out there.
Remember that McKinley is basically just a drydock. It is barely larger than a galaxy class. It would be invisible at any distance, and chances are, it's not parked next to ESD.
Maybe a mix of Drydocks? I mean if starfleet isn't throwing out old hulls, then they're probably not throwing out old Drydocks either. Some of the 2200 Drydocks could be around. Or, if you're concerned about that, what about the Drydocks from the Fleet Starbase? They're a more modern design and they can even fit an Odyssey-class.
Beyond that the only real solution (because I think turning off collision is bad) would be to scale up these drydocks.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
A Ent-Era MACO Rifle, and a 29th century phaser rifle
http://i.imgur.com/pF0NUVS.png
Unless, of course, you wanted to take some time and make them useful for something...
Well lots of people like to take screenshots inside drydocks.
Actually, due to the rotation of the Earth, if it were over the Atlantic when it fell, wouldn't it fall onto North America? If it were over San Francisco, it would fall into the Pacific.
How is the collision oriented on the drydock? Can you reduce it to just being over the solid part with no collision on the sides? Can collision here be in separate parts or does it have to be in pill form? If separate parts, can you have basically 3 collision bubbles, one on top along the solid spine, and one on the outside part of each side?
Raptr profile
http://dtfleet.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/screenshot_2013-08-03-05-56-43.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WnbZLWf.png
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KSr6aoVfEak/UcDUVsr9nZI/AAAAAAAABsM/A9hjHEu_5oE/w1150-h647-no/screenshot_2013-06-18-23-39-26.jpg
And also retain some of the older docks from the original Earth and Mars space maps too:
http://101st-fleet.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/1337299902576.jpg
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Yeah, it's the equivalent of taking selfies in front of the pyramids and statue of liberty.