I'd love any ship from that era getting some treatment. Everybody takes these issues so seriously when in fact, its a just a game. Inevitably we all spend a fortune on it (even if it is sometimes only our time and energy) so it would be nice to actually play the ships we want as opposed to what we are told we can play with.
Not to take anything away from the game developers efforts and ideas but truthfully no matter what new ships are designed, they are not the ships that made Trek what it is. Bring on the Miranda, I'd even Khan up for it.
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
I rather thought we were playing a game where Starfleet engineers, apparently more or less for fun, built a replica of the NX Enterprise, which could nevertheless support modern tech.
All this talk of age of ships is, to me, irrelevant.
Starfleet engineers can build replicas to modern standards of just about anything.
A T5 miranda is far from out of the questions.....
...and i do belive Shpoks has a link to an excellent reimagining of the miranda which would fit the bill admirably.
The Shi'Kahr is the 25th Century or at least late 24th Century Miranda.
The Centaur was neither old nor dated. In fact, the Centaur seemed to fight Bug Ships way better than Galaxies and Excelsiors
Well the centaur was not that is true. Again built from spare Excelsior parts that were lying around and from what I understand damn good ships. But Mirandas, constitutions, they were old designs. They would of been phased out completely if not for the dominion war, and after that, not shocked they were not tossed out.
Also kinda suprised that for our training vessle we don't start out in a shikar or centaur for our starting ship with the miranda as a change later.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Well the centaur was not that is true. Again built from spare Excelsior parts that were lying around and from what I understand damn good ships. But Mirandas, constitutions, they were old designs. They would of been phased out completely if not for the dominion war, and after that, not shocked they were not tossed out.
Also kinda suprised that for our training vessle we don't start out in a shikar or centaur for our starting ship with the miranda as a change later.
Actually no, the Centaur is a lot smaller than the Excelsior even the saucer section and the nacelles are smaller. The Centaur is not even the half the size of the Excelsior.
LOL at people complaining about the request for an old ship like the Miranda to be playable at T5 because it makes no sense. I bet you fools are the same ones flying Andorian Escorts, T'Varos, etc. I bet you are also the same fools that as a Starfleet / KDF / Romulan Republic officer, are flying Recluses, Bugships, Galors, Hirogen Hunters, or whatever ship that makes absolutely NO SENSE for their respective factions to be using.
No sense at all.
Again...
In canon, the Mirandas have seen service into the Dominion War. Don't talk to me about the sturdiness of the Miranda when you have Bugships blowing up in threes every few seconds during battle, yet in STO, they're potent as hell. This is also the same Star Trek where Galaxy class ships were being blown up left and right. If you weren't "USS Enterprise-D," you were fk'ed, and even then, the Ent-D bit it in "Generations."
In STO's setting, Miranda class ships, or their refitted/alternate versions, are serving ALL OVER THE PLACE in the game.
For something still serving at such widespread use, not to mention it is a classic Star Trek ship design, it rates having a T5 version.
As I also mentioned before, it should not have the same hull as newer, larger Cruisers or even anywhere near its younger sister, the Nebula. But I think it can be a faster, nimbler Light Cruiser with lighter hull & ENG. I envision it to be multirole capable but will have that Cmdr BOFF station anywhere. LtCdr here and there and spread the rest out. The Console arrangement can be spread out also. That way, it can be a true support light cruiser capable of doing several things, but not as sturdy as new designs, not as strong as the newer, dedicated ships.
None of the fleets in Star Trek, just like in real life, are composed primarily of the largest, newest, most powerful ships. Small ships like Frigates, Destroyers, etc. play vital roles and are found in larger numbers than bonafide Cruisers or even Battleships when they were still serving. Star Trek has honored that throughout the franchise. The Klingons and Starfleet, when shown having many ships piled together, have a very balanced force... Some heavy cruisers with lots of smaller ships going along. Never, ever did you ever see a force composed of 3/4 or more with the mightiest ships.
The Miranda and its newer, like-designed replacements fit that mold. And it should be replicated in STO as a playable T5 ship. Again, STO's Starfleet DOES have them serving all over the place. They HAVE served through the Dominion War and still serve in STO. It is not a stretch at all to believe that they've been refitted. But it should not be in the same stupid game design of the Andorian Escorts and such. It can be made viable, capable, yet reflecting the age of the design as well as it being a pretty small ship (ships tended to get bigger over time, in Star Trek as well as in real life).
LOL at people complaining about the request for an old ship like the Miranda to be playable at T5 because it makes no sense. I bet you fools are the same ones flying Andorian Escorts, T'Varos, etc. I bet you are also the same fools that as a Starfleet / KDF / Romulan Republic officer, are flying Recluses, Bugships, Galors, Hirogen Hunters, or whatever ship that makes absolutely NO SENSE for their respective factions to be using.
No sense at all.
Again...
In canon, the Mirandas have seen service into the Dominion War. Don't talk to me about the sturdiness of the Miranda when you have Bugships blowing up in threes every few seconds during battle, yet in STO, they're potent as hell. This is also the same Star Trek where Galaxy class ships were being blown up left and right. If you weren't "USS Enterprise-D," you were fk'ed, and even then, the Ent-D bit it in "Generations."
In STO's setting, Miranda class ships, or their refitted/alternate versions, are serving ALL OVER THE PLACE in the game.
For something still serving at such widespread use, not to mention it is a classic Star Trek ship design, it rates having a T5 version.
As I also mentioned before, it should not have the same hull as newer, larger Cruisers or even anywhere near its younger sister, the Nebula. But I think it can be a faster, nimbler Light Cruiser with lighter hull & ENG. I envision it to be multirole capable but will have that Cmdr BOFF station anywhere. LtCdr here and there and spread the rest out. The Console arrangement can be spread out also. That way, it can be a true support light cruiser capable of doing several things, but not as sturdy as new designs, not as strong as the newer, dedicated ships.
None of the fleets in Star Trek, just like in real life, are composed primarily of the largest, newest, most powerful ships. Small ships like Frigates, Destroyers, etc. play vital roles and are found in larger numbers than bonafide Cruisers or even Battleships when they were still serving. Star Trek has honored that throughout the franchise. The Klingons and Starfleet, when shown having many ships piled together, have a very balanced force... Some heavy cruisers with lots of smaller ships going along. Never, ever did you ever see a force composed of 3/4 or more with the mightiest ships.
The Miranda and its newer, like-designed replacements fit that mold. And it should be replicated in STO as a playable T5 ship. Again, STO's Starfleet DOES have them serving all over the place. They HAVE served through the Dominion War and still serve in STO. It is not a stretch at all to believe that they've been refitted. But it should not be in the same stupid game design of the Andorian Escorts and such. It can be made viable, capable, yet reflecting the age of the design as well as it being a pretty small ship (ships tended to get bigger over time, in Star Trek as well as in real life).
But here's the thing. By this point they've been replaced by ships like the Akira, Saber, and Exeter/Vesper/Excalibur and to an extent novas. Even defiants could be built in large numbers because they are small, and lot more easily made than say a cruiser that is twice to 3 times it size.
Also with modular builds, you can also put out NX class ships as smaller corvettes to fight BoP, in theory.
But I can see what you are saying, but there are newer ships that can take the role rather than mirandas.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
There is really no explanation on why the have the Miranda running more so than the Centaur and the Shi'Kahr, do they believe if the players don't see that little ship running, we will forget its a Star Trek game?
But here's the thing. By this point they've been replaced by ships like the Akira, Saber, and Exeter/Vesper/Excalibur and to an extent novas. Even defiants could be built in large numbers because they are small, and lot more easily made than say a cruiser that is twice to 3 times it size.
Also with modular builds, you can also put out NX class ships as smaller corvettes to fight BoP, in theory.
But I can see what you are saying, but there are newer ships that can take the role rather than mirandas.
Wouldn't say so.
The Akira is much bigger.
The Defiant is a weapon with some engine put on it, not as nearly versatile as the Miranda.
Exeter/vesper/Excalibur are bigger ships with another purpose, close to the constitution
Novas seem to be specialized long range science ships
Saber... Well I have no idea about the saber, but being a replacement would be just a guess.
Other then that the Miranda is still kind of the small mans constitution, means a small alrounder. Which is why I think she would work as a raider-like ship.
So while I see replacements for A LOT of older ships which are at t5, and even replacements of the replacements on t5, and also replacements of the replacements of the replacements. I don't see that for the Miranda.
(After all, the excelsior seems to be a constitution replacement, the ambassador an excelsior replacement, the galaxy is an ambassador replacement, you could argue the Sovereign being a galaxy replacement and the ugly whale class (or Odyssee how others call her) seems to be a a Sovereign replacement)
So replacements are not really an argument here..
Wouldn't say so.
The Akira is much bigger.
The Defiant is a weapon with some engine put on it, not as nearly versatile as the Miranda.
Exeter/vesper/Excalibur are bigger ships with another purpose, close to the constitution
Novas seem to be specialized long range science ships
Saber... Well I have no idea about the saber, but being a replacement would be just a guess.
Other then that the Miranda is still kind of the small mans constitution, means a small alrounder. Which is why I think she would work as a raider-like ship.
So while I see replacements for A LOT of the replacements of the replacements. I don't see that for the Miranda.
(After all, the excelsior seems to be a constitution replacement, the ambassador an excelsior replacement, the galaxy is an ambassador replacement, you could argue the Sovereign being a galaxy replacement and the ugly whale class (or Odyssee how others call her) seems to be a a Sovereign replacement)
So replacements are not really an argument here..
Just one note, the designers of the Sovereign believe that the ship was more of a replacement for the Excelsior than the Galaxy, but either way that's how a navy works. You only upgrade older ships when it is financially feasible or in this case economically feasible to do so to help keep your fleet competitive with the other star nation's fleets, especially if your new modern class is either taking too long to build or just too expensive to keep building (in Starfleet's case manpower and materials).
However, I do feel that STO is being lazy in having Mirandas and Excelsiors NPCs flying when you can have more 25th Century ships doing the same. The Player's ship is fine, that is not an immersion breaker.
Just one note, the designers of the Sovereign believe that the ship was more of a replacement for the Excelsior than the Galaxy, but either way that's how a navy works. You only upgrade older ships when it is financially feasible or in this case economically feasible to do so to help keep your fleet competitive with the other star nation's fleets, especially if your new modern class is either taking too long to build or just too expensive to keep building (in Starfleet's case manpower and materials).
However, I do feel that STO is being lazy in having Mirandas and Excelsiors NPCs flying when you can have more 25th Century ships doing the same. The Player's ship is fine, that is not an immersion breaker.
yeah maybe they should have worn the ski'kar skin instead.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Just one note, the designers of the Sovereign believe that the ship was more of a replacement for the Excelsior than the Galaxy, but either way that's how a navy works. You only upgrade older ships when it is financially feasible or in this case economically feasible to do so to help keep your fleet competitive with the other star nation's fleets, especially if your new modern class is either taking too long to build or just too expensive to keep building (in Starfleet's case manpower and materials).
However, I do feel that STO is being lazy in having Mirandas and Excelsiors NPCs flying when you can have more 25th Century ships doing the same. The Player's ship is fine, that is not an immersion breaker.
Well I said "you can argue" about the Sovereign^^
Beeing ultimately a big chunk smaller then the Galaxy I personally have trouble to consider her a "replacement", but its the same "cruiser line".
I like seeing different ship classes as additions rather then replacements^^
Also in real navys there are lots of older ships around without replacements/ replacement types. Because you do not need something new every 2 years. And that is now in a time of yet historically unseen technological progression speed. I doubt that will still work that way by 2409.
It feels to me that everyone expects ships to work like Smartphoses or cars where you need a new type every other year.
And about the Mirandas and Excelsiors; thing is I (and many others) do not like most of the "25th century designs" (Although the Shi'kar is actually one of the very few exceptions, she's quiet awesome). I like classics. So I like to see them around rather then new ships.
But for player ships; we have 25th century skins for many ships, so it can be the players choice what is ultimately flys, 25th century or classic.
And about immersion:
- Ship blows entirely up and the only damage is... a broken sickbay... very immersive
- The Borg, our most feared enemy had returned. We sent a fleet of ships to fight them (which all blow up and have broken sickbays after that...)... So to counter their ground offensive.... we send... an army of our best trained security officers and warriors... wait no... we sent our Macos... wait no. All those wait on the ship and play poker. Since the labor union forbids us to sent them into hazardous environment... We just sent 5 flag officers down :rolleyes:
- Space, the final frontier. The actual final frontier is usually a scimitar preventing me from going further.... any Idea how big space is? Definitely to big to have the way blocked be another parking ship
- The Federation.... the most genozidal psychopaths in the entire galaxy, erasing whole populations just for a few XP and Marks...
Sometimes I have the feeling the devs make this game unimmersive on purpose.
But a few NPC ships floating around that might or might not fit into the timeframe are the least of our problem in terms of immersion.
Comments
Not to take anything away from the game developers efforts and ideas but truthfully no matter what new ships are designed, they are not the ships that made Trek what it is. Bring on the Miranda, I'd even Khan up for it.
The Shi'Kahr is the 25th Century or at least late 24th Century Miranda.
Well the centaur was not that is true. Again built from spare Excelsior parts that were lying around and from what I understand damn good ships. But Mirandas, constitutions, they were old designs. They would of been phased out completely if not for the dominion war, and after that, not shocked they were not tossed out.
Also kinda suprised that for our training vessle we don't start out in a shikar or centaur for our starting ship with the miranda as a change later.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Actually no, the Centaur is a lot smaller than the Excelsior even the saucer section and the nacelles are smaller. The Centaur is not even the half the size of the Excelsior.
No sense at all.
Again...
In canon, the Mirandas have seen service into the Dominion War. Don't talk to me about the sturdiness of the Miranda when you have Bugships blowing up in threes every few seconds during battle, yet in STO, they're potent as hell. This is also the same Star Trek where Galaxy class ships were being blown up left and right. If you weren't "USS Enterprise-D," you were fk'ed, and even then, the Ent-D bit it in "Generations."
In STO's setting, Miranda class ships, or their refitted/alternate versions, are serving ALL OVER THE PLACE in the game.
For something still serving at such widespread use, not to mention it is a classic Star Trek ship design, it rates having a T5 version.
As I also mentioned before, it should not have the same hull as newer, larger Cruisers or even anywhere near its younger sister, the Nebula. But I think it can be a faster, nimbler Light Cruiser with lighter hull & ENG. I envision it to be multirole capable but will have that Cmdr BOFF station anywhere. LtCdr here and there and spread the rest out. The Console arrangement can be spread out also. That way, it can be a true support light cruiser capable of doing several things, but not as sturdy as new designs, not as strong as the newer, dedicated ships.
None of the fleets in Star Trek, just like in real life, are composed primarily of the largest, newest, most powerful ships. Small ships like Frigates, Destroyers, etc. play vital roles and are found in larger numbers than bonafide Cruisers or even Battleships when they were still serving. Star Trek has honored that throughout the franchise. The Klingons and Starfleet, when shown having many ships piled together, have a very balanced force... Some heavy cruisers with lots of smaller ships going along. Never, ever did you ever see a force composed of 3/4 or more with the mightiest ships.
The Miranda and its newer, like-designed replacements fit that mold. And it should be replicated in STO as a playable T5 ship. Again, STO's Starfleet DOES have them serving all over the place. They HAVE served through the Dominion War and still serve in STO. It is not a stretch at all to believe that they've been refitted. But it should not be in the same stupid game design of the Andorian Escorts and such. It can be made viable, capable, yet reflecting the age of the design as well as it being a pretty small ship (ships tended to get bigger over time, in Star Trek as well as in real life).
But here's the thing. By this point they've been replaced by ships like the Akira, Saber, and Exeter/Vesper/Excalibur and to an extent novas. Even defiants could be built in large numbers because they are small, and lot more easily made than say a cruiser that is twice to 3 times it size.
Also with modular builds, you can also put out NX class ships as smaller corvettes to fight BoP, in theory.
But I can see what you are saying, but there are newer ships that can take the role rather than mirandas.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Wouldn't say so.
The Akira is much bigger.
The Defiant is a weapon with some engine put on it, not as nearly versatile as the Miranda.
Exeter/vesper/Excalibur are bigger ships with another purpose, close to the constitution
Novas seem to be specialized long range science ships
Saber... Well I have no idea about the saber, but being a replacement would be just a guess.
Other then that the Miranda is still kind of the small mans constitution, means a small alrounder. Which is why I think she would work as a raider-like ship.
So while I see replacements for A LOT of older ships which are at t5, and even replacements of the replacements on t5, and also replacements of the replacements of the replacements. I don't see that for the Miranda.
(After all, the excelsior seems to be a constitution replacement, the ambassador an excelsior replacement, the galaxy is an ambassador replacement, you could argue the Sovereign being a galaxy replacement and the ugly whale class (or Odyssee how others call her) seems to be a a Sovereign replacement)
So replacements are not really an argument here..
The skin can be from any starship they own.
That might drive adoption of new Lifetime memberships. And ship sales.
Just one note, the designers of the Sovereign believe that the ship was more of a replacement for the Excelsior than the Galaxy, but either way that's how a navy works. You only upgrade older ships when it is financially feasible or in this case economically feasible to do so to help keep your fleet competitive with the other star nation's fleets, especially if your new modern class is either taking too long to build or just too expensive to keep building (in Starfleet's case manpower and materials).
However, I do feel that STO is being lazy in having Mirandas and Excelsiors NPCs flying when you can have more 25th Century ships doing the same. The Player's ship is fine, that is not an immersion breaker.
Just because we wat a miranda type vessel doesnt mean it has to be a miranda class..
http://armada2.filefront.com/screenshots/File/96944/1
also..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigate
Just as a point f refrence as to what role a t5 frigate should fill.
I'm thinking some kind of enhanced sensor ability. maybe a click passive or something.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
yeah maybe they should have worn the ski'kar skin instead.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Well I said "you can argue" about the Sovereign^^
Beeing ultimately a big chunk smaller then the Galaxy I personally have trouble to consider her a "replacement", but its the same "cruiser line".
I like seeing different ship classes as additions rather then replacements^^
Also in real navys there are lots of older ships around without replacements/ replacement types. Because you do not need something new every 2 years. And that is now in a time of yet historically unseen technological progression speed. I doubt that will still work that way by 2409.
It feels to me that everyone expects ships to work like Smartphoses or cars where you need a new type every other year.
And about the Mirandas and Excelsiors; thing is I (and many others) do not like most of the "25th century designs" (Although the Shi'kar is actually one of the very few exceptions, she's quiet awesome). I like classics. So I like to see them around rather then new ships.
But for player ships; we have 25th century skins for many ships, so it can be the players choice what is ultimately flys, 25th century or classic.
And about immersion:
- Ship blows entirely up and the only damage is... a broken sickbay... very immersive
- The Borg, our most feared enemy had returned. We sent a fleet of ships to fight them (which all blow up and have broken sickbays after that...)... So to counter their ground offensive.... we send... an army of our best trained security officers and warriors... wait no... we sent our Macos... wait no. All those wait on the ship and play poker. Since the labor union forbids us to sent them into hazardous environment... We just sent 5 flag officers down :rolleyes:
- Space, the final frontier. The actual final frontier is usually a scimitar preventing me from going further.... any Idea how big space is? Definitely to big to have the way blocked be another parking ship
- The Federation.... the most genozidal psychopaths in the entire galaxy, erasing whole populations just for a few XP and Marks...
Sometimes I have the feeling the devs make this game unimmersive on purpose.
But a few NPC ships floating around that might or might not fit into the timeframe are the least of our problem in terms of immersion.