So the 3 of you beat the gorn - wow with this evidence cryptic should full stop on all other content so that a dozen or so players can get a harder version. Yeah, this info really helps cryptic a lot. Just admit it, it's just about you few guys wanting cryptic to makebthings harder for a few dozen people. Not going to happen.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,597Community Moderator
edited February 2014
The fleet I'm in has yet to beat NWS. We're getting better with mixed DPS/Sci spam, but so far elusive win is elusive. Best we've done so far is start wave 8, with 3 Vestas, a Fleet Defiant, and I think a Galor. Combination of Grav Wells, Grav Torps, and Tractor Repulsors work, but we're still coming up short.
We're still trying though. One of these days, The Tal Shiar's Most Wanted will beat No Win!
So the 3 of you beat the gorn - wow with this evidence cryptic should full stop on all other content so that a dozen or so players can get a harder version. Yeah, this info really helps cryptic a lot. Just admit it, it's just about you few guys wanting cryptic to makebthings harder for a few dozen people. Not going to happen.
If you are so poor a player that you think the current content in this game is hard that's your problem. This is not just about no win scenario, its about all the supposed "end game" or "elite" content in this game. There is not one thing in this game that is a challenge if you have a clue how to play this game, and quite frankly we are sick of it. They want to appeal to the masses with easy content and thats fine, but that doesn't mean that everything in this game should be easy and leave those of us who are actually good at this game with no challenge what so ever.
Don't try and spin your BS that its just a dozen or so of us that find this to be an issue, the DPS-10,000 channel has nearly 600 members, every one of which would tell you that other than NWS all the PvE content in this game is absurdly easy. Even teams I see formed on DPS10k are regularly able to be NWS now days, though certainly not 3 manning it like we did.
On the matter of people who are still trying to beat it, no need to move the goal post on them to satisfy us. Extra levels beyond 10 or just an elite version with harder enemies and maybe different mechanics would be just fine. Same goes for all the other PvE content, rename the supposed "Elite" PvE queues to be Advanced and create truely elite versions to match todays power levels.
The fleet I'm in has yet to beat NWS. We're getting better with mixed DPS/Sci spam, but so far elusive win is elusive. Best we've done so far is start wave 8, with 3 Vestas, a Fleet Defiant, and I think a Galor. Combination of Grav Wells, Grav Torps, and Tractor Repulsors work, but we're still coming up short.
We're still trying though. One of these days, The Tal Shiar's Most Wanted will beat No Win!
The ships your using are hurting your chances. Vestas are alright, but not the best, and the defiant and galor are not good for no win. If your using all feds and no romulans would recommend the Fleet Advanced Escort with the following build for all.
If you want to bring a vesta or two for S and W it can be done, but its easier with the fleet advanced escort. This is the vesta build I have used before.
Kudos on completing No-Win scenario, that's pretty dang impressive. Whoever said Romulans were the worst faction were dead wrong tho... 20% crit hit and 107% severity before the spire tac consoles is hillariously deadly.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
neko, what are you doing here? now get back to grinding your toon!
but seriously,
I think he might be right.
PvP is the content where 0.01% of the players can entertain themselves.
Maybe some organized tournament - a real event for pvp?
or a fleet event? 10 ships vs 10 ships; to accomplish certain objectives
This is not just about no win scenario, its about all the supposed "end game" or "elite" content in this game.
I'm pretty sure that this thread is only about No Win Scenario. I think you may be wanting to have a larger discussion, and I recommend you start a different thread about that?
There is not one thing in this game that is a challenge if you have a clue how to play this game, and quite frankly we are sick of it.
It's a pretty standard thing in MMOs. It's called farm mode. You've put the game on farm mode and are stuck waiting on new content.
I remember the first time my guild in WoW took out Ragnaros. It took many attempts. And that first victory was exhilirating. And difficult.
6 months later, the encounter was boring. It was farm mode.
How many months have you been doing the content here in this game that bores you now?
See. It's MMOs. It's how these games work. You've got No Win on farm mode? Gratz.
You should probably be pushing for new content. Not tweaks to old content.
Good job to the op and the team that beat it. It is a madhouse.
This thread is filled with 10 pages of pure win.
I'll bump this thread later when 3 man it.
It is really a shame that content is neglected to the point where its just faceroll. I don't mind casual players having a casual experience, but at the same time why should I and others like me be discriminated against for actually desiring a challenging match.
Instead of people saying okay that's what you want, I respect that you go do your thing, its met with oh mai gawd what is ur porblemz! this is gonna be uber ez and u r going to liek it!!! OR GTFO!!!!
Imo, there should be 3 seperate difficulties, cutscene mode (currently normal), normal mode (currently elite) and omgwtf (future difficulty that actually challenges players).
its still a simple truth that adding more waves will hurt noone, should be fairly easy done so it wouldnt cost cryptic many recources to do it and it would give those of us interessted in a challange something to do. NWS was meant to be hard and now its not. Just add 10 more waves and new titels at W15 and W20 for Season 9. while that wouldnt be the final solution it would be a nice start.
And in general nobody here really wants to replace the current content with harder versions, just add more layers of difficulty on top of whats already here and enough difficulty to compensate not only for the powercreep of the last months but for the future as well like a good buffer.
It could even be limited as an option to premade matches to avoid frustrating the casual player with to much difficulty.
its still a simple truth that adding more waves will hurt noone, should be fairly easy done so it wouldnt cost cryptic many recources to do it and it would give those of us interessted in a challange something to do. NWS was meant to be hard and now its not. Just add 10 more waves and new titels at W15 and W20 for Season 9. while that wouldnt be the final solution it would be a nice start.
And in general nobody here really wants to replace the current content with harder versions, just add more layers of difficulty on top of whats already here and enough difficulty to compensate not only for the powercreep of the last months but for the future as well like a good buffer.
It could even be limited as an option to premade matches to avoid frustrating the casual player with to much difficulty.
I think that last sentance is a great idea. Restrict frustrating level hard difficulty to private matches, and the average player wouldn't know they exist. Perfect.
It is really a shame that content is neglected to the point where its just faceroll. I don't mind casual players having a casual experience, but at the same time why should I and others like me be discriminated against for actually desiring a challenging match.
Instead of people saying okay that's what you want, I respect that you go do your thing, its met with oh mai gawd what is ur porblemz! this is gonna be uber ez and u r going to liek it!!! OR GTFO!!!!
Imo, there should be 3 seperate difficulties, cutscene mode (currently normal), normal mode (currently elite) and omgwtf (future difficulty that actually challenges players).
inb4 "if u want challenge pvp"
To be honest it's more of a shame when people actively work to trivialize content for months on end then get shocked and surprised when it gets so easy that there's no challenge to it anymore. Your opinion is worthless because it's centered around your own fixations on breaking the game as much as possible in regards to DPS then wondering why it's suddenly gotten so easy that it's no longer challenging.
The entire point of min-maxing something is to remove the challenge from it. Congrats, you got what you wanted. Now stop expecting your ego to get stroked for it and let the rest of us go back to chill-farming NWS in peace or whatever. If you seriously want ~hardcore~ gameplay you probably shouldn't have gravitated towards a casual MMO in the first place. Doing everything in your power to then go and trivialize its mechanics and end-game content was a bad second choice, too, if that was your goal.
Eve Online is still running after a decade if you want that sort of experience. I'm sure everyone would love to see video of you guys beating 10/10 complexes or Level 5 missions in nothing but HACs or something.
To be honest it's more of a shame when people actively work to trivialize content for months on end then get shocked and surprised when it gets so easy that there's no challenge to it anymore. Your opinion is worthless because it's centered around your own fixations on breaking the game as much as possible in regards to DPS then wondering why it's suddenly gotten so easy that it's no longer challenging.
1.) cryptic wants us to grind starbases, holdings, reps, make rom chars, buy the newest fleet ships, scims, avengers, arkifs and loads of lock boxes.. your argument is like saying "sry but weapon power was never meant to be set to max and engaging enemys at anything other than max distance is just stupid cause otherwise the game becomes stupidly easy". Basically your saying "putting any effort in getting better in this game doent need to be a supported playstlye".
2.) if you are not doing as well thats your thing, as long as you enjoy playing the game i wish you all the fun there is, but there is absolutly no reason whatsoever why having more options concerning difficulty would hurt you in your playstyle. so why dont you just do what you want and let us have a way to increase the challenge the game currently offers?
3.) noones opinion is worthless, everyone just wants to enjoy the game the way they want to play it. if its not much work it shouldnt be too much to ask for *some kind of open end challenge* for those of us interested in that
4.) the only shock and sad feeling of surprise i feel is when i see nice to have stuff like loadouts implemented but no real signs of any love given to the content already there being played to death
5.) the only point of min/maxing is testing out the limits, not actually reaching them or as it is now totally leaving those limits behind
To be honest it's more of a shame when people actively work to trivialize content for months on end then get shocked and surprised when it gets so easy that there's no challenge to it anymore. Your opinion is worthless because it's centered around your own fixations on breaking the game as much as possible in regards to DPS then wondering why it's suddenly gotten so easy that it's no longer challenging.
The entire point of min-maxing something is to remove the challenge from it. Congrats, you got what you wanted. Now stop expecting your ego to get stroked for it and let the rest of us go back to chill-farming NWS in peace or whatever. If you seriously want ~hardcore~ gameplay you probably shouldn't have gravitated towards a casual MMO in the first place. Doing everything in your power to then go and trivialize its mechanics and end-game content was a bad second choice, too, if that was your goal.
Eve Online is still running after a decade if you want that sort of experience. I'm sure everyone would love to see video of you guys beating 10/10 complexes or Level 5 missions in nothing but HACs or something.
Yeah sorry I grinded for all this uber gear I have, and guess what? I am gonna use it, and not only that, but its going to be used well at the propper times because that is the most efficient way of playing.
I see no mention of omg my ego so big in my post, in fact quite the opposite. I encouraged players to do as they wish, and I said that I respect how other people play, and ask they do the same of me. I guess that's too much to ask from some people though.
About the hipster super non mainstream farms, good luck have fun. Best of wishes to you in your endeavors.
The game's endgame elite content isn't just trivialized by high dps good players, you walk into a pug ise, and guess what, they'll still have it done well before the optional timer runs out.
About EVE, I prefer not to pay a subscription fee at any point in time, so I am afraid I'll have to pass.
NWS was always easy: It was only a matter of discovering how to solve it. There is no such thing as "hard". Everything is either impossible or it is easy. When something has not been done, it is impossible. Once it has been done, it is easy. That's just how everything in life works.
If NWS was designed to be unbeatable, it simply wouldn't stop at ten waves. If Cryptic didn't expect people to beat it, well, they should have. Any dev who didn't expect the winning teams to make farming it- and selling accolade runs- into a big business, doesn't play his own game.
To be honest it's more of a shame when people actively work to trivialize content for months on end then get shocked and surprised when it gets so easy that there's no challenge to it anymore. Your opinion is worthless because it's centered around your own fixations on breaking the game as much as possible in regards to DPS then wondering why it's suddenly gotten so easy that it's no longer challenging
I don't understand this mindset. ANYONE who has played this game for more than 6-months will have played all of the end-game content to death and will be at a point where they can do basically all of it in their sleep. NWS has gone the same way as STFs. They were supposed to be challenging and take 20-30 minutes each, and now we've gotten to the stage where we can complete all 4 space STFs in 15 minutes without breaking a sweat, and ISE in 80 seconds.
PWE is a company which not only embraces power creep, but uses it as their fundamental business model but refuses to update any content to keep up with the insane amounts of creep. All of the "elite" endgame content is absolutely trivial and has been for quite some time. NWS was the only thing which wasn't trivial because it was designed to be impossible or at least *extremely* difficult, but now it's gotten to the point that after 20 practice runs you're going to beat it 75%+ of the time. There's quite clearly a problem here, so don't sit on your high-horse and TRIBBLE on people who put a little effort into the game because you're looking at it from the wrong perspective.
It's what led me to leave the game a few months ago, I'd achieved everything there was to achieve, beaten every piece of endgame content hundreds of times - and cryptic pays no attention to PvP and doesn't care about it in the slightest, so what's there left to do? Run the same 4 STFs every hour knowing THE MOMENT YOU START that you're never going to fail, or even die? The foundry and PvP kept the game going for me for a little while, but that loses its edge and fun when cryptic don't want to support it or keep it updated and fair.
The only reason I'm back is because I missed a bunch of people (Like the people in the OP, my fleetmates and friends) but when you can come back to the game after a 4-month break, jump straight into a NWS run on one of the hardest flanks and beat it without issue, it's pretty obvious there's a serious issue.
I commend the OP and the min/maxers for managing to find some fun in a game which has no challenge in it - other than setting yourself goals and beating them. Whether that's trying to break 50k DPS in an STF, beating NWS with 3 people (or 5 people in crappy ships, which we've also tried and succeeded in btw) or chasing STF optional timer records. It helps keep the stale and easy content going for longer, but it can't last forever.
STFs and NWS are in DIRE NEED of a refresh, because they're exactly the same pieces of content they were a year ago before the power of the easily and readily available equipment (Fleet consoles and weapons anyone?) increased the damage of your average player threefold.
It's certainly not just us. I have the game announcement fly-ins turned on (NWS accolades and lockbox ship winners) and the amount of people beating NWS at waves 8, 9 and 10 is an insane amount larger than it used to be. I used to PM people to congratulate them whenever I saw it getting beaten, it would happen once every few days. Now it's happening every few hours! Every day so far this week since I've come back, I've seen the fly-by popup. That didn't happen even 3 months ago before I left.
Why does Cryptic have to move the slider further to more difficult? You have superior gear and it should be easier.
Want a challenge and make it last longer, then create one by using a lower tier ship, common or uncommon under mk 12 gear and take all your sets off too.
So lets see if I get this right, the whole point of this game is to grind reps and fleets for access to better gear and abilities. Thats all you do in this game is grind for the best gear. Then when you get the best gear your supposed to have nothing left that is a challenge what so ever? Does this sound like a good business model to you? It doesn't to me.
The old borg STFs haven't been a challenge for years, NWS was the last challenge left in this game but over the last year it has become easier and easier to the point where it is as easy as ISE used to be. If I have nothing left to grind for and nothing left to do in the game that is a challenge whats the point of playing?
They don't have to make the current content more difficult, but they do need to rename the supposedly elite content to Advanced and then add a new Elite difficulty that is scaled every season with the power creep so that atleast we will still have some sort of challenge in this game.
So lets see if I get this right, the whole point of this game is to grind reps and fleets for access to better gear and abilities. Thats all you do in this game is grind for the best gear. Then when you get the best gear your supposed to have nothing left that is a challenge what so ever? Does this sound like a good business model to you? It doesn't to me.
The old borg STFs haven't been a challenge for years, NWS was the last challenge left in this game but over the last year it has become easier and easier to the point where it is as easy as ISE used to be. If I have nothing left to grind for and nothing left to do in the game that is a challenge whats the point of playing?
They don't have to make the current content more difficult, but they do need to rename the supposedly elite content to Advanced and then add a new Elite difficulty that is scaled every season with the power creep so that atleast we will still have some sort of challenge in this game.
Which cuts straight to the point of this thread and all the other similar threads. Take out the "I love me" and the "join x channel to be elite" junk and its just the basics. The game doesn't keep up with the players. I would agree that NWS needs a slider and the STFs really need a revamped elite level to keep up with all the new toys/abilities/ships. Unfortunately you are correct when you said
"If I have nothing left to grind for and nothing left to do in the game that is a challenge whats the point of playing?"
From our fleet to the dps channels, the "nothing to do" is what is creating this. When you have grinded out your rep, your starbase is finished, your toons have everything they need.. what's left to do.. trash NWS and the STFs (both space and ground).. well, when the biggest complaint is that ISE took more than 4 mins you know something is wrong...lol
Gratz on 3 manning NWS btw, nice job, shows how much time/effort you all put into it to learn the timing/tactics
I totally agree that the game doesn't keep up with end game. I'd much rather have new content that's challenging, than just making something I've done 100's of times take longer. That's no fun to me.
The point is: We've already tried to make it more difficult, first by doing it 4 man. When that became too easy, we laughingly tried to do it 3 man (never thinking it could be done). We did a test run and got all the way to wave 10 with only a few ships left. Now we have completed it 3 times with 3 different factions (Klinks, Gorn, Oriions). Dumbing down our gear holds no interest to us. As #'s stated, why grind out rep system and fleet levels to gain access to the best gear and then not use it? Sorta like spending you whole life saving up for a Ferrari and then never exceeding the speed limit. What's the point?
We have tried to mix it up too. We did all beam boats, 4 vestas, etc. And have succeeded on all fronts. So asking for harder content should not be an issue. Asking to extend NWS to level 15 or even 20, should not be an issue.
I simply do not understand the reticence towards making content harder or scalable to power creep? Keep ALL the existing content as is for the casual gamer, but also keep it fresh by adding or creating a "unique" level to current content. Or better yet, introduce completely new content . If you don't care to participate, fine. But why should the better players suffer to everyone else's mediocrity?
Because, I know that when we do what we do, we are inspiring other people to mimic and improve their game as well Basic human nature. I know I mimic and push myself when I see something I thought was undoable. We created the DPS League and to encourage people to improve, and guess what? They have. Some significantly. When you don't have a bar to reach for, you have nothing to compare to where you are. You might be a fantastic casual player, thinking you are cranking out great dps; only to find out that someone is doing 3-5x the dps you are doing. But how would you know? I know the game is not about chasing dps, but the game is design towards it.
So when i see people ripping on us for asking for more and harder content, I shake my head and write them off as people who bow to the alter of mediocrity. Who do not have the personality to push themselves and like living in their little bubble of "so-so."
If NWS was designed to be unbeatable, it simply wouldn't stop at ten waves. If Cryptic didn't expect people to beat it, well, they should have. Any dev who didn't expect the winning teams to make farming it- and selling accolade runs- into a big business, doesn't play his own game.
Comments
We're still trying though. One of these days, The Tal Shiar's Most Wanted will beat No Win!
If you are so poor a player that you think the current content in this game is hard that's your problem. This is not just about no win scenario, its about all the supposed "end game" or "elite" content in this game. There is not one thing in this game that is a challenge if you have a clue how to play this game, and quite frankly we are sick of it. They want to appeal to the masses with easy content and thats fine, but that doesn't mean that everything in this game should be easy and leave those of us who are actually good at this game with no challenge what so ever.
Don't try and spin your BS that its just a dozen or so of us that find this to be an issue, the DPS-10,000 channel has nearly 600 members, every one of which would tell you that other than NWS all the PvE content in this game is absurdly easy. Even teams I see formed on DPS10k are regularly able to be NWS now days, though certainly not 3 manning it like we did.
For the one doubter who didn't want to believe it, and anyone else, here is the video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kxizxrfehb65q0a/GameClient%202014-02-25%2022-52-53-885.avi
On the matter of people who are still trying to beat it, no need to move the goal post on them to satisfy us. Extra levels beyond 10 or just an elite version with harder enemies and maybe different mechanics would be just fine. Same goes for all the other PvE content, rename the supposed "Elite" PvE queues to be Advanced and create truely elite versions to match todays power levels.
The ships your using are hurting your chances. Vestas are alright, but not the best, and the defiant and galor are not good for no win. If your using all feds and no romulans would recommend the Fleet Advanced Escort with the following build for all.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=nwsadvancedescort_2965
If you want to bring a vesta or two for S and W it can be done, but its easier with the fleet advanced escort. This is the vesta build I have used before.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=nwsvesta_2965
Good luck.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
neko, what are you doing here? now get back to grinding your toon!
but seriously,
I think he might be right.
PvP is the content where 0.01% of the players can entertain themselves.
Maybe some organized tournament - a real event for pvp?
or a fleet event? 10 ships vs 10 ships; to accomplish certain objectives
I'm pretty sure that this thread is only about No Win Scenario. I think you may be wanting to have a larger discussion, and I recommend you start a different thread about that?
It's a pretty standard thing in MMOs. It's called farm mode. You've put the game on farm mode and are stuck waiting on new content.
I remember the first time my guild in WoW took out Ragnaros. It took many attempts. And that first victory was exhilirating. And difficult.
6 months later, the encounter was boring. It was farm mode.
How many months have you been doing the content here in this game that bores you now?
See. It's MMOs. It's how these games work. You've got No Win on farm mode? Gratz.
You should probably be pushing for new content. Not tweaks to old content.
This thread is filled with 10 pages of pure win.
I'll bump this thread later when 3 man it.
It is really a shame that content is neglected to the point where its just faceroll. I don't mind casual players having a casual experience, but at the same time why should I and others like me be discriminated against for actually desiring a challenging match.
Instead of people saying okay that's what you want, I respect that you go do your thing, its met with oh mai gawd what is ur porblemz! this is gonna be uber ez and u r going to liek it!!! OR GTFO!!!!
Imo, there should be 3 seperate difficulties, cutscene mode (currently normal), normal mode (currently elite) and omgwtf (future difficulty that actually challenges players).
inb4 "if u want challenge pvp"
And in general nobody here really wants to replace the current content with harder versions, just add more layers of difficulty on top of whats already here and enough difficulty to compensate not only for the powercreep of the last months but for the future as well like a good buffer.
It could even be limited as an option to premade matches to avoid frustrating the casual player with to much difficulty.
I think that last sentance is a great idea. Restrict frustrating level hard difficulty to private matches, and the average player wouldn't know they exist. Perfect.
To be honest it's more of a shame when people actively work to trivialize content for months on end then get shocked and surprised when it gets so easy that there's no challenge to it anymore. Your opinion is worthless because it's centered around your own fixations on breaking the game as much as possible in regards to DPS then wondering why it's suddenly gotten so easy that it's no longer challenging.
The entire point of min-maxing something is to remove the challenge from it. Congrats, you got what you wanted. Now stop expecting your ego to get stroked for it and let the rest of us go back to chill-farming NWS in peace or whatever. If you seriously want ~hardcore~ gameplay you probably shouldn't have gravitated towards a casual MMO in the first place. Doing everything in your power to then go and trivialize its mechanics and end-game content was a bad second choice, too, if that was your goal.
Eve Online is still running after a decade if you want that sort of experience. I'm sure everyone would love to see video of you guys beating 10/10 complexes or Level 5 missions in nothing but HACs or something.
1.) cryptic wants us to grind starbases, holdings, reps, make rom chars, buy the newest fleet ships, scims, avengers, arkifs and loads of lock boxes.. your argument is like saying "sry but weapon power was never meant to be set to max and engaging enemys at anything other than max distance is just stupid cause otherwise the game becomes stupidly easy". Basically your saying "putting any effort in getting better in this game doent need to be a supported playstlye".
2.) if you are not doing as well thats your thing, as long as you enjoy playing the game i wish you all the fun there is, but there is absolutly no reason whatsoever why having more options concerning difficulty would hurt you in your playstyle. so why dont you just do what you want and let us have a way to increase the challenge the game currently offers?
3.) noones opinion is worthless, everyone just wants to enjoy the game the way they want to play it. if its not much work it shouldnt be too much to ask for *some kind of open end challenge* for those of us interested in that
4.) the only shock and sad feeling of surprise i feel is when i see nice to have stuff like loadouts implemented but no real signs of any love given to the content already there being played to death
5.) the only point of min/maxing is testing out the limits, not actually reaching them or as it is now totally leaving those limits behind
Yeah sorry I grinded for all this uber gear I have, and guess what? I am gonna use it, and not only that, but its going to be used well at the propper times because that is the most efficient way of playing.
I see no mention of omg my ego so big in my post, in fact quite the opposite. I encouraged players to do as they wish, and I said that I respect how other people play, and ask they do the same of me. I guess that's too much to ask from some people though.
About the hipster super non mainstream farms, good luck have fun. Best of wishes to you in your endeavors.
The game's endgame elite content isn't just trivialized by high dps good players, you walk into a pug ise, and guess what, they'll still have it done well before the optional timer runs out.
About EVE, I prefer not to pay a subscription fee at any point in time, so I am afraid I'll have to pass.
Anyway it's true, adding new npcs like voth, borg, undine etc. to nws would be great.
I don't understand this mindset. ANYONE who has played this game for more than 6-months will have played all of the end-game content to death and will be at a point where they can do basically all of it in their sleep. NWS has gone the same way as STFs. They were supposed to be challenging and take 20-30 minutes each, and now we've gotten to the stage where we can complete all 4 space STFs in 15 minutes without breaking a sweat, and ISE in 80 seconds.
PWE is a company which not only embraces power creep, but uses it as their fundamental business model but refuses to update any content to keep up with the insane amounts of creep. All of the "elite" endgame content is absolutely trivial and has been for quite some time. NWS was the only thing which wasn't trivial because it was designed to be impossible or at least *extremely* difficult, but now it's gotten to the point that after 20 practice runs you're going to beat it 75%+ of the time. There's quite clearly a problem here, so don't sit on your high-horse and TRIBBLE on people who put a little effort into the game because you're looking at it from the wrong perspective.
It's what led me to leave the game a few months ago, I'd achieved everything there was to achieve, beaten every piece of endgame content hundreds of times - and cryptic pays no attention to PvP and doesn't care about it in the slightest, so what's there left to do? Run the same 4 STFs every hour knowing THE MOMENT YOU START that you're never going to fail, or even die? The foundry and PvP kept the game going for me for a little while, but that loses its edge and fun when cryptic don't want to support it or keep it updated and fair.
The only reason I'm back is because I missed a bunch of people (Like the people in the OP, my fleetmates and friends) but when you can come back to the game after a 4-month break, jump straight into a NWS run on one of the hardest flanks and beat it without issue, it's pretty obvious there's a serious issue.
I commend the OP and the min/maxers for managing to find some fun in a game which has no challenge in it - other than setting yourself goals and beating them. Whether that's trying to break 50k DPS in an STF, beating NWS with 3 people (or 5 people in crappy ships, which we've also tried and succeeded in btw) or chasing STF optional timer records. It helps keep the stale and easy content going for longer, but it can't last forever.
STFs and NWS are in DIRE NEED of a refresh, because they're exactly the same pieces of content they were a year ago before the power of the easily and readily available equipment (Fleet consoles and weapons anyone?) increased the damage of your average player threefold.
It's certainly not just us. I have the game announcement fly-ins turned on (NWS accolades and lockbox ship winners) and the amount of people beating NWS at waves 8, 9 and 10 is an insane amount larger than it used to be. I used to PM people to congratulate them whenever I saw it getting beaten, it would happen once every few days. Now it's happening every few hours! Every day so far this week since I've come back, I've seen the fly-by popup. That didn't happen even 3 months ago before I left.
Kirk's Protege.
So lets see if I get this right, the whole point of this game is to grind reps and fleets for access to better gear and abilities. Thats all you do in this game is grind for the best gear. Then when you get the best gear your supposed to have nothing left that is a challenge what so ever? Does this sound like a good business model to you? It doesn't to me.
The old borg STFs haven't been a challenge for years, NWS was the last challenge left in this game but over the last year it has become easier and easier to the point where it is as easy as ISE used to be. If I have nothing left to grind for and nothing left to do in the game that is a challenge whats the point of playing?
They don't have to make the current content more difficult, but they do need to rename the supposedly elite content to Advanced and then add a new Elite difficulty that is scaled every season with the power creep so that atleast we will still have some sort of challenge in this game.
Which cuts straight to the point of this thread and all the other similar threads. Take out the "I love me" and the "join x channel to be elite" junk and its just the basics. The game doesn't keep up with the players. I would agree that NWS needs a slider and the STFs really need a revamped elite level to keep up with all the new toys/abilities/ships. Unfortunately you are correct when you said
"If I have nothing left to grind for and nothing left to do in the game that is a challenge whats the point of playing?"
From our fleet to the dps channels, the "nothing to do" is what is creating this. When you have grinded out your rep, your starbase is finished, your toons have everything they need.. what's left to do.. trash NWS and the STFs (both space and ground).. well, when the biggest complaint is that ISE took more than 4 mins you know something is wrong...lol
Gratz on 3 manning NWS btw, nice job, shows how much time/effort you all put into it to learn the timing/tactics
The point is: We've already tried to make it more difficult, first by doing it 4 man. When that became too easy, we laughingly tried to do it 3 man (never thinking it could be done). We did a test run and got all the way to wave 10 with only a few ships left. Now we have completed it 3 times with 3 different factions (Klinks, Gorn, Oriions). Dumbing down our gear holds no interest to us. As #'s stated, why grind out rep system and fleet levels to gain access to the best gear and then not use it? Sorta like spending you whole life saving up for a Ferrari and then never exceeding the speed limit. What's the point?
We have tried to mix it up too. We did all beam boats, 4 vestas, etc. And have succeeded on all fronts. So asking for harder content should not be an issue. Asking to extend NWS to level 15 or even 20, should not be an issue.
I simply do not understand the reticence towards making content harder or scalable to power creep? Keep ALL the existing content as is for the casual gamer, but also keep it fresh by adding or creating a "unique" level to current content. Or better yet, introduce completely new content . If you don't care to participate, fine. But why should the better players suffer to everyone else's mediocrity?
Because, I know that when we do what we do, we are inspiring other people to mimic and improve their game as well Basic human nature. I know I mimic and push myself when I see something I thought was undoable. We created the DPS League and to encourage people to improve, and guess what? They have. Some significantly. When you don't have a bar to reach for, you have nothing to compare to where you are. You might be a fantastic casual player, thinking you are cranking out great dps; only to find out that someone is doing 3-5x the dps you are doing. But how would you know? I know the game is not about chasing dps, but the game is design towards it.
So when i see people ripping on us for asking for more and harder content, I shake my head and write them off as people who bow to the alter of mediocrity. Who do not have the personality to push themselves and like living in their little bubble of "so-so."
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
People sell accolade runs loolllll?