exact, there is a reason that in other mmos that feature raids you measure your (solo)dps in attacking not destroyable targets over large time and without team buffs; otherwise its more of a team effort , so gz to the team
It's worth mentioning they actually DID lengthen the duplicate ability cooldown of FAW to 20s. It used to be 15s and had the same uptime as CRF/CSV (66%) but now has a much lower uptime (50%). This is why you need more doffs to get things properly in sync with cannon skills than with FAW.
That was already in place before season 6 however..
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
I think part of the problem is that in many parts of STO, a tactic of huge DPS with little-to-no survivability is viable: killing off an enemy before they get off a shot becomes the goal. It seems that there are bonuses in STF for example for speed and DPS, but not for things like tanking or healing. In other words, getting a bonus (like Neural Processors) is a cakewalk for my tac toons with lots of damage, and difficult for my sci and engie toons.
If this is correct, then there are obviously a few options to consider such as:
Bonuses for team healing if your own hull never gets under 75%
Bonuses if your hull never goes under 100%
Introducing additional team games (like in PvP) which do not allow re-entering battle after destruction (or auto-loss of bonuses), so participation requires an ability to survive
Having some missions and team PvE scenarios where the battles are actually sustained rather than episodic with cooldowns
Benchmarking maximum DPS against boss hulls so battles against the supposedly nastier enemies is never easy or quick for anyone (just checked on a tac toon: elite-level "Assimilation" mission Spheres have hull of 130k; the cube only had 95k hull). It's totally bizarre that some ships could technically one-shot a Borg Cube.
I wouldn't want to necessarily discourage aiming for great DPS, or just demand that peoples' ships summarily get nerfed, but there needs to also be something for those of us who actually want to play the game in the spirit of the way things are shown in the shows, such as assisting other ships and not coming out of any reasonably lengthy battle with a sizzling space-junk hull.
Also updated the OP with the DPS channel thread and a link to the combatlog reader that they use which can be used to authenticate the above log file
I wonder how much dps that would be against people with 65%+ of hull resistance.. Becuase that number in one second is near to my Hull HP on my best tanking ship.
Honestly its to the point with all the dps stacking that its getting to be, the only way to tank is to speed tank in PVP. Which is rather disheartening.
I wonder how much dps that would be against people with 65%+ of hull resistance.. Becuase that number in one second is near to my Hull HP on my best tanking ship.
Honestly its to the point with all the dps stacking that its getting to be, the only way to tank is to speed tank in PVP. Which is rather disheartening.
In fairness there is no way in the game thusfar to do 60k dps solo, it takes a team of silly high dpsers to make these numbers happen so it becomes more of a team figure, as such I stopped caring about it, I do 10k or more if I play my cruiser though lately I haven't bothered to play, with that said that is more than enough to make the game a joke, anything beyond 15k is just excessive.
I wonder how much dps that would be against people with 65%+ of hull resistance.. Becuase that number in one second is near to my Hull HP on my best tanking ship.
Honestly its to the point with all the dps stacking that its getting to be, the only way to tank is to speed tank in PVP. Which is rather disheartening.
A lot of it is tactical debuffs, the ones cleared by tactical team (hint hint) so in PvP you can see the damage cut down considerably if people are preventing it stacking.
By the way last I checked it is now 84k and 73k or something like that for top 2 places.
In fairness there is no way in the game thusfar to do 60k dps solo, it takes a team of silly high dpsers to make these numbers happen so it becomes more of a team figure, as such I stopped caring about it, I do 10k or more if I play my cruiser though lately I haven't bothered to play, with that said that is more than enough to make the game a joke, anything beyond 15k is just excessive.
Yeah I haven't logged in in over a week, can't say I'm missing the game. I like Star Trek but there's just nothing there but grind for grind sake.
A lot of it is tactical debuffs, the ones cleared by tactical team (hint hint) so in PvP you can see the damage cut down considerably if people are preventing it stacking.
By the way last I checked it is now 84k and 73k or something like that for top 2 places.
Yeah I haven't logged in in over a week, can't say I'm missing the game. I like Star Trek but there's just nothing there but grind for grind sake.
The amount of Resistance i have tactical debuffs honestly only lower it by few percentages...
Like a full stack of beta etc brings me down to 65% rather then 70%, plus with that doff my emergency powers now clear all debuffs. I don't even have to worry about subnuc now.
I don't think you can really think about it in terms of DPS. Rather, you need to think of it in terms of damage per weapon cycle. A DHC will fire two volleys every 3 seconds and turrets fire 4 every 3 seconds. So, vapers are likely focusing on getting as much out of that two seconds as they can. The name of the game is spike damage.
Just to get an idea on how ridiculous this is, I played around with some numbers concerning a Sci Vesta (that's 3 tac consoles for those unaware).
This build, if properly executed, can drop nearly 42K damage in the time it takes to complete a single firing cycle using APA, Tac Fleet, CRF I, and ES II. This is possible because the weapon energy costs are split between aux and weapon subsystems. Running ES II boosts power levels by 43 points, pushing weapon power to its cap (70/15/15/100).
If you lose the tac captain abilities, that damage drops to ~20K. Having a tac captain effectively doubles the damage for the duration of the captain abilities. Cloakers get even more damage potential with the 25% boost after decloaking.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
Likewise. Never thought I'd see the day when I would lose interest in a major way, but it happened last night.
Played ISE. Two Scimitars completely wiped the floor with everthing. Instance lasted around three minutes - three minutes in which time NOTHING I did made any difference to anything. This having become a regular occurence, and being frankly sick of it, I logged out, turned the PC off and spent the remainder of my free time re-reading book III of the Destiny trilogy.
Will probably log in tonight in the hope that I don't wind up in instances with stupid OP Scimitars, otherwise I suspect that my PC will again be powered-down in favour of a book.
I know what you mean... I'm trying to get a channel going that is ANTI-DPS. Your more than welcome to check it out as all is.
I don't think you can really think about it in terms of DPS. Rather, you need to think of it in terms of damage per weapon cycle. A DHC will fire two volleys every 3 seconds and turrets fire 4 every 3 seconds. So, vapers are likely focusing on getting as much out of that two seconds as they can. The name of the game is spike damage.
Just to get an idea on how ridiculous this is, I played around with some numbers concerning a Sci Vesta (that's 3 tac consoles for those unaware).
This build, if properly executed, can drop nearly 42K damage in the time it takes to complete a single firing cycle using APA, Tac Fleet, CRF I, and ES II. This is possible because the weapon energy costs are split between aux and weapon subsystems. Running ES II boosts power levels by 43 points, pushing weapon power to its cap (70/15/15/100).
If you lose the tac captain abilities, that damage drops to ~20K. Having a tac captain effectively doubles the damage for the duration of the captain abilities. Cloakers get even more damage potential with the 25% boost after decloaking.
I honestly think that's big issue with the game, why don't engineer abilities effectively double your survivability? or why don't science abilities effectively double your crowd control or healing?
Yeah I agree with the OP. It's gotten a bit silly now, especially with the romulan faction's Over Powered bridge officers and new crtih/d consoles. Either give fed/kdf 2 space trait boffs, or remove 1 space trait from romulan boffs. limit the traits to specific careers.
Also I like the idea of massive power drain for FAW, as it seems the programmers are useless at a lot of game mechanics, I am sure they could atleast do that. The more targets faw hits the more drain you incur.
Power drain of 20 per target might be a good number, enough targets and you have no weapon power.
Quote about STO on consoles: "Not quite as bad as No man's sky, but a close second."
Also I like the idea of massive power drain for FAW, as it seems the programmers are useless at a lot of game mechanics, I am sure they could atleast do that. The more targets faw hits the more drain you incur.
Power drain of 20 per target might be a good number, enough targets and you have no weapon power.
I don't mind the idea of +drain during FAW but it should be standard drain multiplied by number of targets attacked reflecting the number of shots fired rather than doubling the drain for each target, that just doesn't add up.
Another idea to curb AOE spam dps is to add FBP to all targets designed to take no damage (Like nanite transformers while nanite probes are in play)
Yeah I agree with the OP. It's gotten a bit silly now, especially with the romulan faction's Over Powered bridge officers and new crtih/d consoles. Either give fed/kdf 2 space trait boffs, or remove 1 space trait from romulan boffs. limit the traits to specific careers.
Also I like the idea of massive power drain for FAW, as it seems the programmers are useless at a lot of game mechanics, I am sure they could atleast do that. The more targets faw hits the more drain you incur.
Power drain of 20 per target might be a good number, enough targets and you have no weapon power.
That is a stupid idea.
Unless you also would be willing to increase the drain on CSV, CRF and most likely BO too, which again is not a great idea as cannons will suffer most.
What needs to happen is the drain mechanic looking at and they need to figure out how it should work and actually make it work that way.
FAW is not a problem, it's power is a symptom of other things just as subnuc being so powerful is because people have 10-20 buffs up all the time.
Likewise. Never thought I'd see the day when I would lose interest in a major way, but it happened last night.
Played ISE. Two Scimitars completely wiped the floor with everthing. Instance lasted around three minutes - three minutes in which time NOTHING I did made any difference to anything. This having become a regular occurence, and being frankly sick of it, I logged out, turned the PC off and spent the remainder of my free time re-reading book III of the Destiny trilogy.
Will probably log in tonight in the hope that I don't wind up in instances with stupid OP Scimitars, otherwise I suspect that my PC will again be powered-down in favour of a book.
Alot of Anti-DPS, or to be more exact, a lack of DPS!
True ... about the lack of DPS ... I drive a 20k ( for now ) Scimitar and do ISE in PUGs , I did quite a few and only once I ended up in a PUG with another powerful Scimitar and the STF lasted for about 3,5 minutes but usually PUG team members don't do more than 5-6k DPS ... sometimes you have a 10k DPS teammate.
Not all damage is out of control, but from some sources it is being stacked too much and should be nerfed.
Elite Mesh Weavers- APB pets are overpowered, change their attack pattern to Omega or lower grade of Beta or a different ability and buff the pets elsewhere.
Infiltrator stacking- Nerf this, disable this completely, you should not be able to stack different grades of the infiltrator trait.
Overcapping with high EPS- In theory EPS isn't supposed to help DPS, but with all the massive overcapping it does, a lot. This is not working as intended.
CRF1/BO1 X% increased damage/clear overcap/X% max Weapon Power
CRF2/BO2 X+% increased damage/clear overcap/X+% max Weapon Power
CRF3/BO3 X++% increased damage/clear overcap/X++% max Weapon Power
What I don't get is why at least some people don't simply stop doing it? I meant you get the people complaining about how everything is too easy and how bored they are, but they're saying this while flying around in a Scimitar with 5 SupOps and a full load of RomPlas with Spire Tac consoles, spamming FAW and building their flight plan around exploiting the limitations of the AI. They're the ones making it 'excessive,' financially encouraging Cryptic to do more in that direction based on their purchases, and then complaining about it? WTH? How about benching the Scims and the Avengers and such, loading up a Gal-R with phasers, and playing just to play instead of trying to break the game? How many complainers have done this to themselves?
And as for Cryptic and their steady stream of power creep, your wallet is louder than any forum post. If the +1 stuff stops selling, maybe THAT will convince them to develop something else instead.
*Proud non-owner of the Kumari, Scimitar, Avenger, Mogh, or anything Lobi-related*
CRF1/BO1 X% increased damage/clear overcap/X% max Weapon Power
CRF2/BO2 X+% increased damage/clear overcap/X+% max Weapon Power
CRF3/BO3 X++% increased damage/clear overcap/X++% max Weapon Power
Okay Virus... I can usually understand your posts with a spreadsheet and coffee but I don't know where to start with this one... help?
Okay Virus... I can usually understand your posts with a spreadsheet and coffee but I don't know where to start with this one... help?
Heh, it was meant to be super vague so I could say it and have it go ignored. :P
Basically, it's a case of looking at FAW (that's where I started). Take a look at a Beam Array and what it does naturally/normally. Then take a look at what it does with FAW1, FAW2, and FAW3.
Taking a look at one of my guys, and just the otherwise unbuffed numbers (info pulled from Available Skills window)...
Normal Beam Array
DPV: 825.4
DPS: 660.3
Fire at Will I
ST DPV: 813.6 (98.6% DPV)
ST DPS: 813.6 (123% DPS)
x2 DPV: 1627.2 (197% DPV)
x2 DPS: 1627.2 (246% DPS)
Fire at Will II
ST DPV: 859.2 (104% DPV)
ST DPS: 859.2 (130% DPS)
x2 DPV: 1718.4 (208% DPV)
x2 DPS: 1718.4 (260% DPS)
Fire at Will III
ST DPV: 911.2 (110% DPV)
ST DPS: 911.2 (138% DPS)
x2 DPV: 1822.4 (221% DPV)
x2 DPS: 1822.4 (276% DPS)
Course, he's a Healing Eng in a Marauder - so those base numbers aren't that big (only 109 Weapon Power if I go x/100 Weapon Power, etc, etc, etc).
But that 2.76x DPS occurs at a point in the damage calculations that it will always be 2.76x more DPS as more as there are two targets on the field, during the interval that FAW3 can be maintained.
So if you were in a 20k DPS boat, you'd be in a 55.2k DPS boat during that duration of FAW3. Even against a single target, say you were in a 10k DPS boat, you'd be in a 13.8k DPS boat - 20k ST DPS would be 27.6k DPS.
Whether you're facing a single target or multiple targets, FAW is better than not-FAW. Should it be better at both? Should it be more twice as good against two targets as not using it is against one target?
There's no increased drain. Sure, it's 5/10 shots instead of 4...but it's going from 1s to 0.8s, so you're still firing the shots in a 4s period with the 1s gap. It's the same ol' beam drain mechanics. There's nothing...outside of the CD (reduced as it will be) to offset the use of FAW.
Some folks want to go after overcap at the core, but that would TRIBBLE the guys not using FAW (not using CSV) as well as the FAW guys. If the FAW guys are firing up to 10 shots compared to the 4 of the guy not using FAW...then maybe, just maybe - FAW should have increased drain. If it's not going to have increased drain, then it should have it's damage reduced - since the same amount of power that's powering 4 shots can't be powering 10 shots that are doing more damage than the 4 shots, eh?
Basically, FAW and CSW are OP and need to be reworked.
The same would go for BO/CRF in a different manner - though they should definitely have the higher damage than not using those abilities (something that really can't be said for FAW/CSV (the ST damage that is))...there should still be more drain on them since they're putting that load on the system to use them, no?
Yes, we can point to all the various things added here and there...but in the end, it is the core aspect of things that is flawed and the reason that all the extra stuff looks so ridiculous - the thing from the thread on the factional focus (I believe it was), got me thinking about that. The core is flawed, anything added will just look goofy as Hell...until the core is fixed, everything will just be goofy.
Thanks for clearing that up for me, I am a supporter of increased drain for AOE skills, I personally prefer for drain to be applied by the number of shots fired rather than the firing cycle, it makes for more realistic gameplay and would while 'nerfing' all weapons under AOE status I think it would help overall for beam arrays at least, also it means that FAW would drain a bit over 200% power provided the cycles were fired at multiple targets while not having such a drastic effect if only one target is fired at.
For clarification: what I mean by this is that a 4 shot cycle (standard for beam arrays) would still drain 10 power if all 4 shots are fired as the drain accumulates over the course of the cycle so lets say you fired a full cycle at a target and you had 100 power.
Single target, sans FAW
Shot 1: (Deals damage for 100 power) 100 - 2.5 = 98.5, Shot 2: (Deals damage for 98.5 power) 98.5 - 2.5 = 95, Shot 3: (Deals damage for 95 power) 95 - 2.5 = 92.5, Shot 4: (Deals damage for 92.5 power) 92.5 - 2.5 = 90.
Single target, with FAW
Shot 1: (Deals damage for 100 power) 100 - 2.5 = 98.5, Shot 2: (Deals damage for 98.5 power) 98.5 - 2.5 = 95, Shot 3: (Deals damage for 95 power) 95 - 2.5 = 92.5, Shot 4: (Deals damage for 92.5 power) 92.5 - 2.5 = 90, Shot 5: (Deals damage for 90 power) 90 - 2.5 = 88.5
Now lets say you were firing a standard single target volley but your target moved out of range mid cycle, rather than still having 90 power like you do now, you would see something like: Shot 1: (Deals damage for 100 power) 100 - 2.5 = 98.5, Shot 2: (Deals damage for 98.5 power) 98.5 - 2.5 = 95 and your power would recover from there.
Dual target, here's the fun part, you have two targets in your range and you are firing a single beam under FAW at them from 100 power. We have two options depending upon how the mechanics work, we can either consider it 5 shots fired at two targets or 10 shots fired at 1 (from a drain point of view) The first will result in drain working as it does now if the second target moves out of range, the latter would account for that however.
Scenario one: 5 shots, fired at two targets.
Shot 1: (Deals damage for 100 power) 100 - 5 = 95, Shot 2: (Deals damage for 95 power) 95 - 5 = 90, Shot 3: (Deals damage for 90 power) 90 - 5 = 85, Shot 4: (Deals damage for 85 power) 85 - 5 = 80, Shot 5: (Deals damage for 80 power) 80 - 5 = 75
Scenario 2: 10 shots, fired at a single target (from a drain point of view)
Shot 1: (Deals damage for 100 power) 100 - 2.5 = 98.5, Shot 2: (Deals damage for 98.5 power) 98.5 - 2.5 = 95, Shot 3: (Deals damage for 95 power) 95 - 2.5 = 92.5, Shot 4: (Deals damage for 92.5 power) 92.5 - 2.5 = 90, Shot 5: (Deals damage for 90 power) 90 - 2.5 = 88.5, Shot 6: (Deals damage for 88.5 power) 88.5 - 2.5 = 85, Shot 7: (Deals damage for 85 power) 85 - 2.5 = 82.5, Shot 8: (Deals damage for 82.5 power) 82.5 - 2.5 = 80, Shot 9: (Deals damage for 80 power) 80 - 2.5 = 78.5, Shot 10: (Deals damage for 78.5 power) 78.5 - 2.5 = 75
Personally I would prefer the latter as it would be more conservative of power should targets move out of range. I'm afraid I don't know how this would impact on weapon drain resistance as a way of reducing the impact of it on weapon systems as I don't know the general specifics of system drain and drain resists. If this system was adopted at a basic weapon drain level it wouldn't require any recoding for FAW or CSV or for BO or CRF beyond maybe a line stating it should follow standard drain mechanics rather than any addition drain in the abilities.
The problem I have with people saying increase the drain is generally it comes from the people that are very spiteful either because they got their asses handed to them or because they cannot replicate it. This leads to a "make it drain all their weapons power" asking for nerfing which need I remind anyone here is what happened to science abilities.
By the way VD, want to run those numbers for CSV and show just how powerful that is assuming you keep 3 targets in its firing arc?
Reginamala, it's not hard nor does it require much to get enough dps to make the game pointless, it stops being a challenge at 5k and becomes easy and fast at 10k which all RA and up ships can do, even science ships. You could say play a different role or build your ship differently but then you could also say to Usain Bolt to shoot himself in the foot because he's faster than everyone else to the point where it's not a challenge anymore.
The problem I have with people saying increase the drain is generally it comes from the people that are very spiteful either because they got their asses handed to them or because they cannot replicate it. This leads to a "make it drain all their weapons power" asking for nerfing which need I remind anyone here is what happened to science abilities.
That's fair enough but as a user of FAW (admittedly not with full uptime) I can't say I would mind my solution being implemented, I dislike the idea of dps by spam and stacking but I wouldn't consider myself spiteful over it. (A2B is another matter)
As I noted in the post as I laid it out, it would be more efficient than the current system and in many ways would be a buff to beam arrays for the most part, though to reach the current dps heights that dual FAW boats do now, they would have to roughly double their overcap so it would curb the top end of possible dps, though that is kind of the intention at this point isn't it?
Reginamala, it's not hard nor does it require much to get enough dps to make the game pointless, it stops being a challenge at 5k and becomes easy and fast at 10k which all RA and up ships can do, even science ships. You could say play a different role or build your ship differently but then you could also say to Usain Bolt to shoot himself in the foot because he's faster than everyone else to the point where it's not a challenge anymore.
All I'm saying is why try so hard and spend so much when its unneeded and if anything detracts from the game? Its supposed to be fun. To use your analogy, when Usain Bolt goes for a recreational jog, I doubt he gets out his track singlet and custom shoes and goes all out and makes condescending comments about people who don't keep up. More likely its probably comfy sweats, some old sneakers, and just kinda enjoying the scenery. This is a game, not a competitive sport, and I'm sick of having my scenery blown up by a bunch of people who first ***** that I'm doing it wrong, and then ***** about the lack of scenery that they themselves just destroyed.
The problem I have with people saying increase the drain is generally it comes from the people that are very spiteful either because they got their asses handed to them or because they cannot replicate it. This leads to a "make it drain all their weapons power" asking for nerfing which need I remind anyone here is what happened to science abilities.
Heh, I don't have any spiteful in me (though I'm really having a difficult time not telling Cryptic to go TRIBBLE themselves with the combination of what they did to the forums and what they've done to the regular ol' site now too...meh). I just don't like all the talk of TRIBBLE over folks that aren't using something as a means to correct that something. If there's a problem with something, correct it - don't try to adjust everything else around it.
By the way VD, want to run those numbers for CSV and show just how powerful that is assuming you keep 3 targets in its firing arc?
Sure, though it should be stated - that the values that would affect drain for one wouldn't be the same for the other - that's why my original thing used a blank variable rather than pinpointing any specific amount. Besides, you know I've said it before - nothing's going to change. The only thing Cryptic's stated (Geko freely talks about it these days) is there is going to be more powercreep and the issues simply are going to get worse.
This is a guy with some rare Mk XI Plasma DHCs, DCs, Cannons, and Turrets...nah, I'll just do the DHCs and Turrets. I really want to get back to blasting that website change...meh.
The Normal Turret DPS starts off as 51.7% of the Normal DHC vs. that single target...but it's up to 71.6% of the DPS with CSV3. Maybe some of my ol' lol Polaron Turret CSV boats weren't as lol as I thought...they had some guramba going for them. :P
Why are you looking so much at DHC and CSV? thats not a big part of the DPS out of control problem. Sure some people get it up to 30k with that, but in matches that fast people have done 50-80k with beam scimitar.
Infiltrator stacking and beta stacking has to be a much bigger part of the equation and is whats OP.
Why are you looking so much at DHC and CSV? thats not a big part of the DPS out of control problem. Sure some people get it up to 30k with that, but in matches that fast people have done 50-80k with beam scimitar.
Infiltrator stacking and beta stacking has to be a much bigger part of the equation and is whats OP.
The point is that CSV is only really held in check by the lack of having 3 targets always in your firing arc at 2km and indeed comparing it side by side completely eclipses FAW at optimal range. Sure it's not getting stupid yet but we all remember the domination CSV had and still sort of has in many areas.
Again reginamala, you don't need to make much effort to get half decent damage, I got 15k with my Romulan in a tvaro with very little other than mission rewards. The only thing required for doing more than 10k is to have half a working hemisphere and not be afk or have one of the many, many, many bugs.
The only thing required for doing more than 10k is to have half a working hemisphere and not be afk or have one of the many, many, many bugs.
Many people seem to be having problems with doing so (look at the numerous threads about it) and most of the 'help' offered amounts to shopping lists, making your statement an incredibly condescending thing to say. Moreover, its beside the point; its not whether someone can do high numbers, but whether they should given how the game comes apart when they do.
Comments
That was already in place before season 6 however..
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
If this is correct, then there are obviously a few options to consider such as:
I wouldn't want to necessarily discourage aiming for great DPS, or just demand that peoples' ships summarily get nerfed, but there needs to also be something for those of us who actually want to play the game in the spirit of the way things are shown in the shows, such as assisting other ships and not coming out of any reasonably lengthy battle with a sizzling space-junk hull.
Honestly its to the point with all the dps stacking that its getting to be, the only way to tank is to speed tank in PVP. Which is rather disheartening.
In fairness there is no way in the game thusfar to do 60k dps solo, it takes a team of silly high dpsers to make these numbers happen so it becomes more of a team figure, as such I stopped caring about it, I do 10k or more if I play my cruiser though lately I haven't bothered to play, with that said that is more than enough to make the game a joke, anything beyond 15k is just excessive.
A lot of it is tactical debuffs, the ones cleared by tactical team (hint hint) so in PvP you can see the damage cut down considerably if people are preventing it stacking.
By the way last I checked it is now 84k and 73k or something like that for top 2 places.
Yeah I haven't logged in in over a week, can't say I'm missing the game. I like Star Trek but there's just nothing there but grind for grind sake.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Did he use duplicate abilities? If yes, then - as usual - "poor mans A2B" from me.
Just for the notes:
ISE: Cube HP ~363k - takes like 3 firing cycles (CRF2) to make it poof -> 60k DPS.
The amount of Resistance i have tactical debuffs honestly only lower it by few percentages...
Like a full stack of beta etc brings me down to 65% rather then 70%, plus with that doff my emergency powers now clear all debuffs. I don't even have to worry about subnuc now.
Just to get an idea on how ridiculous this is, I played around with some numbers concerning a Sci Vesta (that's 3 tac consoles for those unaware).
Spike Vesta
This build, if properly executed, can drop nearly 42K damage in the time it takes to complete a single firing cycle using APA, Tac Fleet, CRF I, and ES II. This is possible because the weapon energy costs are split between aux and weapon subsystems. Running ES II boosts power levels by 43 points, pushing weapon power to its cap (70/15/15/100).
If you lose the tac captain abilities, that damage drops to ~20K. Having a tac captain effectively doubles the damage for the duration of the captain abilities. Cloakers get even more damage potential with the 25% boost after decloaking.
I know what you mean... I'm trying to get a channel going that is ANTI-DPS. Your more than welcome to check it out as all is.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1026351
You don't need that.
Just stroll into PUG STF queues
Alot of Anti-DPS, or to be more exact, a lack of DPS!
Heck yeah, about half the time core breach does more damage than one of my team mates.
Your Ramming Speed III deals 242658 (243540) Kinetic Damage (Critical) to you.
Also I like the idea of massive power drain for FAW, as it seems the programmers are useless at a lot of game mechanics, I am sure they could atleast do that. The more targets faw hits the more drain you incur.
Power drain of 20 per target might be a good number, enough targets and you have no weapon power.
I don't mind the idea of +drain during FAW but it should be standard drain multiplied by number of targets attacked reflecting the number of shots fired rather than doubling the drain for each target, that just doesn't add up.
Another idea to curb AOE spam dps is to add FBP to all targets designed to take no damage (Like nanite transformers while nanite probes are in play)
That is a stupid idea.
Unless you also would be willing to increase the drain on CSV, CRF and most likely BO too, which again is not a great idea as cannons will suffer most.
What needs to happen is the drain mechanic looking at and they need to figure out how it should work and actually make it work that way.
FAW is not a problem, it's power is a symptom of other things just as subnuc being so powerful is because people have 10-20 buffs up all the time.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
True ... about the lack of DPS ... I drive a 20k ( for now ) Scimitar and do ISE in PUGs , I did quite a few and only once I ended up in a PUG with another powerful Scimitar and the STF lasted for about 3,5 minutes but usually PUG team members don't do more than 5-6k DPS ... sometimes you have a 10k DPS teammate.
Elite Mesh Weavers- APB pets are overpowered, change their attack pattern to Omega or lower grade of Beta or a different ability and buff the pets elsewhere.
Infiltrator stacking- Nerf this, disable this completely, you should not be able to stack different grades of the infiltrator trait.
Overcapping with high EPS- In theory EPS isn't supposed to help DPS, but with all the massive overcapping it does, a lot. This is not working as intended.
CSV2/FAW2 X+% increased drain/X+% reduced damage
CSV3/FAW3 X% increased drain/X% reduced damage
CRF1/BO1 X% increased damage/clear overcap/X% max Weapon Power
CRF2/BO2 X+% increased damage/clear overcap/X+% max Weapon Power
CRF3/BO3 X++% increased damage/clear overcap/X++% max Weapon Power
And as for Cryptic and their steady stream of power creep, your wallet is louder than any forum post. If the +1 stuff stops selling, maybe THAT will convince them to develop something else instead.
*Proud non-owner of the Kumari, Scimitar, Avenger, Mogh, or anything Lobi-related*
/rant
Okay Virus... I can usually understand your posts with a spreadsheet and coffee but I don't know where to start with this one... help?
Heh, it was meant to be super vague so I could say it and have it go ignored. :P
Basically, it's a case of looking at FAW (that's where I started). Take a look at a Beam Array and what it does naturally/normally. Then take a look at what it does with FAW1, FAW2, and FAW3.
Taking a look at one of my guys, and just the otherwise unbuffed numbers (info pulled from Available Skills window)...
Normal Beam Array
DPV: 825.4
DPS: 660.3
Fire at Will I
ST DPV: 813.6 (98.6% DPV)
ST DPS: 813.6 (123% DPS)
x2 DPV: 1627.2 (197% DPV)
x2 DPS: 1627.2 (246% DPS)
Fire at Will II
ST DPV: 859.2 (104% DPV)
ST DPS: 859.2 (130% DPS)
x2 DPV: 1718.4 (208% DPV)
x2 DPS: 1718.4 (260% DPS)
Fire at Will III
ST DPV: 911.2 (110% DPV)
ST DPS: 911.2 (138% DPS)
x2 DPV: 1822.4 (221% DPV)
x2 DPS: 1822.4 (276% DPS)
Course, he's a Healing Eng in a Marauder - so those base numbers aren't that big (only 109 Weapon Power if I go x/100 Weapon Power, etc, etc, etc).
But that 2.76x DPS occurs at a point in the damage calculations that it will always be 2.76x more DPS as more as there are two targets on the field, during the interval that FAW3 can be maintained.
So if you were in a 20k DPS boat, you'd be in a 55.2k DPS boat during that duration of FAW3. Even against a single target, say you were in a 10k DPS boat, you'd be in a 13.8k DPS boat - 20k ST DPS would be 27.6k DPS.
Whether you're facing a single target or multiple targets, FAW is better than not-FAW. Should it be better at both? Should it be more twice as good against two targets as not using it is against one target?
There's no increased drain. Sure, it's 5/10 shots instead of 4...but it's going from 1s to 0.8s, so you're still firing the shots in a 4s period with the 1s gap. It's the same ol' beam drain mechanics. There's nothing...outside of the CD (reduced as it will be) to offset the use of FAW.
Some folks want to go after overcap at the core, but that would TRIBBLE the guys not using FAW (not using CSV) as well as the FAW guys. If the FAW guys are firing up to 10 shots compared to the 4 of the guy not using FAW...then maybe, just maybe - FAW should have increased drain. If it's not going to have increased drain, then it should have it's damage reduced - since the same amount of power that's powering 4 shots can't be powering 10 shots that are doing more damage than the 4 shots, eh?
Basically, FAW and CSW are OP and need to be reworked.
The same would go for BO/CRF in a different manner - though they should definitely have the higher damage than not using those abilities (something that really can't be said for FAW/CSV (the ST damage that is))...there should still be more drain on them since they're putting that load on the system to use them, no?
Yes, we can point to all the various things added here and there...but in the end, it is the core aspect of things that is flawed and the reason that all the extra stuff looks so ridiculous - the thing from the thread on the factional focus (I believe it was), got me thinking about that. The core is flawed, anything added will just look goofy as Hell...until the core is fixed, everything will just be goofy.
For clarification: what I mean by this is that a 4 shot cycle (standard for beam arrays) would still drain 10 power if all 4 shots are fired as the drain accumulates over the course of the cycle so lets say you fired a full cycle at a target and you had 100 power.
Single target, sans FAW
Shot 1: (Deals damage for 100 power) 100 - 2.5 = 98.5, Shot 2: (Deals damage for 98.5 power) 98.5 - 2.5 = 95, Shot 3: (Deals damage for 95 power) 95 - 2.5 = 92.5, Shot 4: (Deals damage for 92.5 power) 92.5 - 2.5 = 90.
Single target, with FAW
Shot 1: (Deals damage for 100 power) 100 - 2.5 = 98.5, Shot 2: (Deals damage for 98.5 power) 98.5 - 2.5 = 95, Shot 3: (Deals damage for 95 power) 95 - 2.5 = 92.5, Shot 4: (Deals damage for 92.5 power) 92.5 - 2.5 = 90, Shot 5: (Deals damage for 90 power) 90 - 2.5 = 88.5
Now lets say you were firing a standard single target volley but your target moved out of range mid cycle, rather than still having 90 power like you do now, you would see something like: Shot 1: (Deals damage for 100 power) 100 - 2.5 = 98.5, Shot 2: (Deals damage for 98.5 power) 98.5 - 2.5 = 95 and your power would recover from there.
Dual target, here's the fun part, you have two targets in your range and you are firing a single beam under FAW at them from 100 power. We have two options depending upon how the mechanics work, we can either consider it 5 shots fired at two targets or 10 shots fired at 1 (from a drain point of view) The first will result in drain working as it does now if the second target moves out of range, the latter would account for that however.
Scenario one: 5 shots, fired at two targets.
Shot 1: (Deals damage for 100 power) 100 - 5 = 95, Shot 2: (Deals damage for 95 power) 95 - 5 = 90, Shot 3: (Deals damage for 90 power) 90 - 5 = 85, Shot 4: (Deals damage for 85 power) 85 - 5 = 80, Shot 5: (Deals damage for 80 power) 80 - 5 = 75
Scenario 2: 10 shots, fired at a single target (from a drain point of view)
Shot 1: (Deals damage for 100 power) 100 - 2.5 = 98.5, Shot 2: (Deals damage for 98.5 power) 98.5 - 2.5 = 95, Shot 3: (Deals damage for 95 power) 95 - 2.5 = 92.5, Shot 4: (Deals damage for 92.5 power) 92.5 - 2.5 = 90, Shot 5: (Deals damage for 90 power) 90 - 2.5 = 88.5, Shot 6: (Deals damage for 88.5 power) 88.5 - 2.5 = 85, Shot 7: (Deals damage for 85 power) 85 - 2.5 = 82.5, Shot 8: (Deals damage for 82.5 power) 82.5 - 2.5 = 80, Shot 9: (Deals damage for 80 power) 80 - 2.5 = 78.5, Shot 10: (Deals damage for 78.5 power) 78.5 - 2.5 = 75
Personally I would prefer the latter as it would be more conservative of power should targets move out of range. I'm afraid I don't know how this would impact on weapon drain resistance as a way of reducing the impact of it on weapon systems as I don't know the general specifics of system drain and drain resists. If this system was adopted at a basic weapon drain level it wouldn't require any recoding for FAW or CSV or for BO or CRF beyond maybe a line stating it should follow standard drain mechanics rather than any addition drain in the abilities.
By the way VD, want to run those numbers for CSV and show just how powerful that is assuming you keep 3 targets in its firing arc?
Reginamala, it's not hard nor does it require much to get enough dps to make the game pointless, it stops being a challenge at 5k and becomes easy and fast at 10k which all RA and up ships can do, even science ships. You could say play a different role or build your ship differently but then you could also say to Usain Bolt to shoot himself in the foot because he's faster than everyone else to the point where it's not a challenge anymore.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
That's fair enough but as a user of FAW (admittedly not with full uptime) I can't say I would mind my solution being implemented, I dislike the idea of dps by spam and stacking but I wouldn't consider myself spiteful over it. (A2B is another matter)
As I noted in the post as I laid it out, it would be more efficient than the current system and in many ways would be a buff to beam arrays for the most part, though to reach the current dps heights that dual FAW boats do now, they would have to roughly double their overcap so it would curb the top end of possible dps, though that is kind of the intention at this point isn't it?
All I'm saying is why try so hard and spend so much when its unneeded and if anything detracts from the game? Its supposed to be fun. To use your analogy, when Usain Bolt goes for a recreational jog, I doubt he gets out his track singlet and custom shoes and goes all out and makes condescending comments about people who don't keep up. More likely its probably comfy sweats, some old sneakers, and just kinda enjoying the scenery. This is a game, not a competitive sport, and I'm sick of having my scenery blown up by a bunch of people who first ***** that I'm doing it wrong, and then ***** about the lack of scenery that they themselves just destroyed.
Heh, I don't have any spiteful in me (though I'm really having a difficult time not telling Cryptic to go TRIBBLE themselves with the combination of what they did to the forums and what they've done to the regular ol' site now too...meh). I just don't like all the talk of TRIBBLE over folks that aren't using something as a means to correct that something. If there's a problem with something, correct it - don't try to adjust everything else around it.
Sure, though it should be stated - that the values that would affect drain for one wouldn't be the same for the other - that's why my original thing used a blank variable rather than pinpointing any specific amount. Besides, you know I've said it before - nothing's going to change. The only thing Cryptic's stated (Geko freely talks about it these days) is there is going to be more powercreep and the issues simply are going to get worse.
This is a guy with some rare Mk XI Plasma DHCs, DCs, Cannons, and Turrets...nah, I'll just do the DHCs and Turrets. I really want to get back to blasting that website change...meh.
Normal DHC
DPV: 1748.4
DPS: 1165.6
DHCs w/ CSV1
x1 DPV: 2011 (115%)
x1 DPS: 1340.6 (115%)
x2 DPV: 4022 (230%)
x2 DPS: 2681.2 (230%)
x3 DPV: 6033 (345%)
x3 DPS: 4021.8 (345%)
DHCs w/ CSV2
x1 DPV: 2097.9 (120%)
x1 DPS: 1398.6 (120%)
x2 DPV: 4195.8 (240%)
x2 DPS: 2797.2 (240%)
x3 DPV: 6293.7 (360%)
x3 DPS: 4195.8 (360%)
DHCs w/ CSV3
x1 DPV: 2187.8 (125%)
x1 DPS: 1458.6 (125%)
x2 DPV: 4375.6 (250%)
x2 DPS: 2917.2 (250%)
x3 DPV: 6563.4 (375%)
x3 DPS: 4375.8 (375%)
Normal Turret
DPV: 452.2
DPS: 602.9
Turret w/ CSV1
x1 DPV: 529 (117%)
x1 DPS: 705.4 (117%)
x2 DPV: 1058 (234%)
x2 DPS: 1410.8 (234%)
x3 DPV: 1587 (351%)
x3 DPS: 2116.2 (351%)
Turret w/ CSV2
x1 DPV: 656.4 (145%)
x1 DPS: 875.2 (145%)
x2 DPV: 1312.8 (290%)
x2 DPS: 1750.4 (290%)
x3 DPV: 1969.2 (435%)
x3 DPS: 2625.6 (435%)
Turret w/ CSV3
x1 DPV: 783.7 (173%)
x1 DPS: 1045 (173%)
x2 DPV: 1567.4 (346%)
x2 DPS: 2090 (346%)
x3 DPV: 2351.1 (519%)
x3 DPS: 3135 (519%)
Pretty nifty, eh?
The Normal Turret DPS starts off as 51.7% of the Normal DHC vs. that single target...but it's up to 71.6% of the DPS with CSV3. Maybe some of my ol' lol Polaron Turret CSV boats weren't as lol as I thought...they had some guramba going for them. :P
Infiltrator stacking and beta stacking has to be a much bigger part of the equation and is whats OP.
The point is that CSV is only really held in check by the lack of having 3 targets always in your firing arc at 2km and indeed comparing it side by side completely eclipses FAW at optimal range. Sure it's not getting stupid yet but we all remember the domination CSV had and still sort of has in many areas.
Again reginamala, you don't need to make much effort to get half decent damage, I got 15k with my Romulan in a tvaro with very little other than mission rewards. The only thing required for doing more than 10k is to have half a working hemisphere and not be afk or have one of the many, many, many bugs.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Many people seem to be having problems with doing so (look at the numerous threads about it) and most of the 'help' offered amounts to shopping lists, making your statement an incredibly condescending thing to say. Moreover, its beside the point; its not whether someone can do high numbers, but whether they should given how the game comes apart when they do.