After installing Arc I've been having connectivity issues. Sometimes I'm disconnected multiple times in a play session (I log in and am disconnected again and again) or have difficulty logging in. I did not have multiple dis-connective issues in a single play session before installing Arc.
Question for PWE: when will arc become mandatory, is there a set date yet? how much time do we have??
i plan to throw a big party for all my friends on the last day, and give away tons of stuff i still have in my prize vault, including saved mats
Last I heard which was at my visit last month there was no public date yet to when ARC and steam are going to be mandatory. I'm sure they have a "really want to get done by" date but if that's possible or not is another question.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
After installing Arc I've been having connectivity issues. Sometimes I'm disconnected multiple times in a play session (I log in and am disconnected again and again) or have difficulty logging in. I did not have multiple dis-connective issues in a single play session before installing Arc.
Sounds like firewall or port forwarding issue to me. Happens with a lot of connective apps. I have had no issues.
Nothing breaks the tension better than a tankard of warnog - except maybe a good brawl...
I don't have problems with running Arc itself. I take issue with the strongarm (and all too typical, in this industry these days...) tactics being used to force people to use a completely unnecessary piece of software to run an entirely separate piece of software. The tactic is inherently dishonest, and gives me no reason to trust that said unnecessary software will always be used for purely honest purposes.
A simple analogy would be for me to buy a car, and then being told that if I do not use a specific brand and style of seat cover, I'm not allowed to drive my car.
I don't care what it's for. I don't care how little resources are required to run it. The dishonest tactics being used to force it on me tell me that the people doing so are dishonest. It's as simple as that. If this works for you, that's fine. I wasn't put on this Earth to tell you who to trust. Quit trying to do the same to me. When PWE announces that we'll be able to shut Arc off after starting STO and still being able to play, I'll consider trusting them a bit more, but the taste of this whole affair is going to stick for a long time.
And for all the brainless clowns that will come along and inevitably claim "That's a bad analogy, so it's invalid" I will only say that a) you obviously don't know what an analogy actually is, and b) your lack of education makes any rebuttal invalid.
I don't have problems with running Arc itself. I take issue with the strongarm (and all too typical, in this industry these days...) tactics being used to force people to use a completely unnecessary piece of software to run an entirely separate piece of software. The tactic is inherently dishonest, and gives me no reason to trust that said unnecessary software will always be used for purely honest purposes.
A simple analogy would be for me to buy a car, and then being told that if I do not use a specific brand and style of seat cover, I'm not allowed to drive my car.
I don't care what it's for. I don't care how little resources are required to run it. The dishonest tactics being used to force it on me tell me that the people doing so are dishonest. It's as simple as that. If this works for you, that's fine. I wasn't put on this Earth to tell you who to trust. Quit trying to do the same to me. When PSE announces that we'll be able to shut Arc off after starting STO and still being able to play, I'll consider trusting them a bit more, but the taste of this whole affair is going to stick for a long time.
And for all the brainless clowns that will come along and inevitably claim "That's a bad analogy, so it's invalid" I will only say that a) you obviously don't know what an analogy actually is, and b) your lack of education makes any rebuttal invalid.
1) That IS a bad analogy.
2) Insulting people by calling them "brainless clowns" and saying that they have "a lack of education" because they don't understand your analogy is not a way to endear people to this plight.
2) Insulting people by calling them "brainless clowns" and saying that they have "a lack of education" because they don't understand your analogy is not a way to endear people to this plight.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell, "1984"
Name calling comes from frustration, think of everything people have said about me and my resistance of this, once I discovered what they where up to, the costume unlock no longer seemed worth the price. Everyone is so eager for the next bribe they forget to reason why the bribes and secrecy are so thick this time around. Also take into account that they needed ads and puppets to push for this project, since the bribes didnt sway everyone once suspicion arose on how they where going about this and the attitude they used to play down people not on board. PLus they arent speaking as much to answer questions now that they have been called on for a few things, things they possibly hoped would be overlooked by the bribes and the downplay plants, i hope im wrong but its taken hold of my curiosity to know whats up with pwe and this ARC client...to not feel they have a product that could stand up to questions or legitimate criticism...
...well, am i making sense? I realize im labeled as anti ARC, but stop and think for a minute, then consider my position. Finding the truth isnt easy or popular, but you will always have to choose one pill or the other.
The only truth I've seen from you about Arc is one link to a post that everyone knows about where they openly talk about why it won't be able to be turned off while playing. The rest is typical tactics of spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt, mixed in with some snarky clips about how evil the company is for exercising their prerogative to change the method of access to the game, and calling anyone who doesn't share your opinion of the change a sock puppet.
And for all the brainless clowns that will come along and inevitably claim "That's a bad analogy, so it's invalid" I will only say that a) you obviously don't know what an analogy actually is, and b) your lack of education makes any rebuttal invalid.
I do know what an analogy is, and the prime characteristic of one is that the things being compared have to be analogous. Car seat covers and Arc are not. An analogy related to a car and Arc would be something that is, and always has been required to make the car work, like gasoline, spark plugs, or a key being changed for a different version of the same basic thing, since Arc is merely taking the place of something that was always necessary to play, but not an intrinsic part of the game to begin with, the launcher. Arc : STO :: different spark plug type that supersedes the old one that is no longer manufactured : car.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
The only truth I've seen from you about Arc is one link to a post that everyone knows about where they openly talk about why it won't be able to be turned off while playing. The rest is typical tactics of spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt, mixed in with some snarky clips about how evil the company is for exercising their prerogative to change the method of access to the game, and calling anyone who doesn't share your opinion of the change a sock puppet.
.
Mostly the sock puppet reference is for those new accounts that popped up trying to start the arc fan club, u remember, the ones that went away after the arc thread and chat channel didnt take off. They where so blatantly obvious it was almost funny watching them. The one link is to answer the reoccurring question of prove they are spying on u, if u want more snips i have compiled a bunch from this thread for everyone. here
Ive always advertised i use drama and jokes for visual aids to establish my points, nothing new there. I have a lot to loose with this game, so the fear of loosing my game to an unnecessary client is a factor just like people who show up to give me and anyone else who says NO to ARC, the Herod speech. Im well aware they rule here, hence the clip. ( say unnecessary, because if its so necessary, why allow steam in its place if watching us is such a factor??)The uncertainty and dought comes from them using that (obamacare style tactic) you have to get it to see whats in it, i tried that, it didnt work....and even before i began to mock ARC my requests for assistance fell on def ears. But im now thankful they didnt respond, thats when i took it upon myself to find a solution and discovered more then i expected, including how fast the easy people will turn on u once you resist and ask questions!
I have said before, if you like it, you use it. But why should I have to? A company should have the players interest in mind, to make things comfortable for them so they wanna come back, its situations like this where i have to defend my position of why i dont want it (well gee, the problem must be me for not wanting to live in a box) and pretty much have them thumb their noses at me for not being a good boy and eating whatever they put on my plate...u know something this is not worth my time, i shouldnt have to explain myself to everyone. If they arent going to provide me with something that is fun and enjoyable for ME, why should i have to just accept it because its expected of me to obey...no, when you cut me off my launcher im just outta here. If they dont like it, tough...if they dont care, then that saves us both the trouble of another explanation!
Insulting people by calling them "brainless clowns" and saying that they have "a lack of education" because they don't understand your analogy is not a way to endear people to this plight.
I'm not trying to "endear" anyone to this plight. It has long since been supremely evident that our concerns are irrelevant to PW, and will continue to be arrogantly dismissed by the players who don't share our concerns. We are WAY past endearment, chief.
The only truth I've seen from you about Arc is one link to a post that everyone knows about where they openly talk about why it won't be able to be turned off while playing. The rest is typical tactics of spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt, mixed in with some snarky clips about how evil the company is for exercising their prerogative to change the method of access to the game, and calling anyone who doesn't share your opinion of the change a sock puppet.
Typical tactics? Like forcing this unnecessary software operation on people? You talk about uncertainty and doubt. Yes, I am, and will remain, uncertain and doubtful about PW's motives for implementing this. As for how we respond to its supporters, see my above comment. Supporters that have been every bit as snarky as its detractors. That's a pot/kettle discussion if ever there was one.
I do know what an analogy is, and the prime characteristic of one is that the things being compared have to be analogous. Car seat covers and Arc are not. An analogy related to a car and Arc would be something that is, and always has been required to make the car work, like gasoline, spark plugs, or a key being changed for a different version of the same basic thing, since Arc is merely taking the place of something that was always necessary to play, but not an intrinsic part of the game to begin with, the launcher. Arc : STO :: different spark plug type that supersedes the old one that is no longer manufactured : car.
It all depends on what you think I was trying to analogize; functionality vs. enforced use. But if you really want to poke at the functionality side of it, your own analogy is bad. This change is requiring me to replace my car starter, a device that doesn't run continuously, with one that does. Needlessly. And no, I wouldn't buy/own a car that operated this way, either.
Mostly the sock puppet reference is for those new accounts that popped up trying to start the arc fan club, u remember, the ones that went away after the arc thread and chat channel didnt take off. They where so blatantly obvious it was almost funny watching them. The one link is to answer the reoccurring question of prove they are spying on u, if u want more snips i have compiled a bunch from this thread for everyone. here
Ive always advertised i use drama and jokes for visual aids to establish my points, nothing new there. I have a lot to loose with this game, so the fear of loosing my game to an unnecessary client is a factor just like people who show up to give me and anyone else who says NO to ARC, the Herod speech. Im well aware they rule here, hence the clip. ( say unnecessary, because if its so necessary, why allow steam in its place if watching us is such a factor??)The uncertainty and dought comes from them using that (obamacare style tactic) you have to get it to see whats in it, i tried that, it didnt work....and even before i began to mock ARC my requests for assistance fell on def ears. But im now thankful they didnt respond, thats when i took it upon myself to find a solution and discovered more then i expected, including how fast the easy people will turn on u once you resist and ask questions!
I have said before, if you like it, you use it. But why should I have to? A company should have the players interest in mind, to make things comfortable for them so they wanna come back, its situations like this where i have to defend my position of why i dont want it (well gee, the problem must be me for not wanting to live in a box) and pretty much have them thumb their noses at me for not being a good boy and eating whatever they put on my plate...u know something this is not worth my time, i shouldnt have to explain myself to everyone. If they arent going to provide me with something that is fun and enjoyable for ME, why should i have to just accept it because its expected of me to obey...no, when you cut me off my launcher im just outta here. If they dont like it, tough...if they dont care, then that saves us both the trouble of another explanation!
I see, you equate this with real world politics. It's ESD chat on the forums. I think I'm done reading your posts now. By the way, I saw someone, perhaps not you, claiming that a poster was a sock puppet that had been backdated. Truly a remarkable amount of paranoia. I tend to believe that said poster's over the top praise for Arc was a form of trolling the easy targets on here, rather than some malevolent plan by PWE to impersonate a grassroots movement in support of Arc, but to each their own.
I'm not trying to "endear" anyone to this plight. It has long since been supremely evident that our concerns are irrelevant to PW, and will continue to be arrogantly dismissed by the players who don't share our concerns. We are WAY past endearment, chief.
Typical tactics? Like forcing this unnecessary software operation on people? You talk about uncertainty and doubt. Yes, I am, and will remain, uncertain and doubtful about PW's motives for implementing this. As for how we respond to its supporters, see my above comment. Supporters that have been every bit as snarky as its detractors. That's a pot/kettle discussion if ever there was one.
It all depends on what you think I was trying to analogize; functionality vs. enforced use. But if you really want to poke at the functionality side of it, your own analogy is bad. This change is requiring me to replace my car starter, a device that doesn't run continuously, with one that does. Needlessly. And no, I wouldn't buy/own a car that operated this way, either.
The FUD comment was directed at catstar, but, if the shoe fits, I suppose it can go on your foot as well.
My spark plug analogy might not be perfect (analogies rarely are), but it's a heck of a lot closer than seat covers. There was always enforced use, be it the original launcher or the one that will eventually be integrated into Arc., so an argument based on that being new is a non-starter.
The creeping forward of intrusiveness is part of a continuum that you may not have seen. Cryptic had an updater for City of Heroes that didn't even need to run to launch the game between patches, you could start from the executable and login information was done at the server level, cut to Champions Online, and then STO, and the launchers had to be used every time that you logged into the game. Why? To keep track of the integrity of the game files would be my guess. I'm sure that people wondered if that step was necessary, as well. This is the next logical step in that continuum. Whether you think that it went too far at the previous step, or if it's going too far at this step, or if it will go too far in some future step is all up to your personal tastes.
I'm not telling you that you shouldn't push back if it's crossed your personal threshold, I'm just saying that false reasoning about what this step really is does a disservice to your point. PWE isn't switching to Arc for our benefit, but for theirs, that should be obvious to any of us, but their benefit from it; a single code base to maintain for launchers, a marketing platform to put all of their games in view of anyone who plays any of them, and an integrated method to detect common forms of cheat software, would be severely impacted if Arc turned out to also be doing a number of even more intrusive, or, even worse, downright malicious things.
As far as my own personal line goes, I'm fine with Arc, barring any evidence of anything more intrusive than what they say it is doing. I refuse to believe, lacking any evidence of such a thing, that there is a sinister purpose behind it, but rather believe that there is a marketing/efficiency/corporate gain motivation for this change.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
I see, you equate this with real world politics. It's ESD chat on the forums. I think I'm done reading your posts now. By the way, I saw someone, perhaps not you, claiming that a poster was a sock puppet that had been backdated. Truly a remarkable amount of paranoia. I tend to believe that said poster's over the top praise for Arc was a form of trolling the easy targets on here, rather than some malevolent plan by PWE to impersonate a grassroots movement in support of Arc, but to each their own.
The FUD comment was directed at catstar, but, if the shoe fits, I suppose it can go on your foot as well.
My spark plug analogy might not be perfect (analogies rarely are), but it's a heck of a lot closer than seat covers. There was always enforced use, be it the original launcher or the one that will eventually be integrated into Arc., so an argument based on that being new is a non-starter.
The creeping forward of intrusiveness is part of a continuum that you may not have seen. Cryptic had an updater for City of Heroes that didn't even need to run to launch the game between patches, you could start from the executable and login information was done at the server level, cut to Champions Online, and then STO, and the launchers had to be used every time that you logged into the game. Why? To keep track of the integrity of the game files would be my guess. I'm sure that people wondered if that step was necessary, as well. This is the next logical step in that continuum. Whether you think that it went too far at the previous step, or if it's going too far at this step, or if it will go too far in some future step is all up to your personal tastes.
I'm not telling you that you shouldn't push back if it's crossed your personal threshold, I'm just saying that false reasoning about what this step really is does a disservice to your point. PWE isn't switching to Arc for our benefit, but for theirs, that should be obvious to any of us, but their benefit from it; a single code base to maintain for launchers, a marketing platform to put all of their games in view of anyone who plays any of them, and an integrated method to detect common forms of cheat software, would be severely impacted if Arc turned out to also be doing a number of even more intrusive, or, even worse, downright malicious things.
As far as my own personal line goes, I'm fine with Arc, barring any evidence of anything more intrusive than what they say it is doing. I refuse to believe, lacking any evidence of such a thing, that there is a sinister purpose behind it, but rather believe that there is a marketing/efficiency/corporate gain motivation for this change.
Whoah, we must be in the presence of greatness...he speaks with such authority over us! My apologies great one...i am not worthy to receive an audience with you! XD
Its true i spoke with frustration the other day, but i stand by it!
But have u noticed how many have asked those not in favor of arc to prove it, that its spyware....after many pages, it is true...they are collecting data, but now that has been established, the new defense is, "well, they wont do anything malicious with it" ..ok, so I will now ask you this, how do you know it, and what proof do YOU have that they wont abuse it?? Ever filled out stuff from peanut labs? What does a company do with your info? How do you know what they really have in mind? If it was bad they wont tell u, or they even get a disgruntled employee, what then?? I mean, what strait answers do we really get from em?
...and how long before they add in that ignore button on here already? Im upsetting the sensitive people! :rolleyes:
( a little at a time, but its all beginning to make sense....i just have a plan and timeline) =^.^=
The Truth hurts and they are beginning to see what your saying is making sense
As if.
Either way, I'm with anodynes - catstarsto (and many others) is politicizing Arc when it's just a simple game launcher that isn't going to hurt anyone and their paranoia is doing nothing but scaring new players away. At this point, I think it's best to walk away and live and let live.
Either way, I'm with anodynes - catstarsto (and many others) is politicizing Arc when it's just a simple game launcher that isn't going to hurt anyone and their paranoia is doing nothing but scaring new players away. At this point, I think it's best to walk away and live and let live.
I used that as an analogy since it was the best comparison i could find, that program was bugged and had a ton of issues to fix, it was forced and there will be a penalty for not complying. PLus there wasnt a lot of info on what the plan for it was in all, they still havent released all of their intentions yet, you will just have to get it and see what happens =O.o=.
FOr the new players (Cryptic rocks!)....is the game fun, yes, is it the best sci fi game out there, yes, the control and freedom while inside the game is unmatched, is ARC bad? That depends on your perception of security and if you value privacy. If you dont mind clients like Raptr or Steam that have access to your system, passwords and advanced permissions...then it probably wouldnt bother u, but if that intrusion is something your trying to avoid, then Arc may pose problems for u down the road when it becomes mandatory. When looking for a game, shop around and see if the company is willing to accommodate for your convenience, comfort and safety.. they all give away digital freebee's so just plan ahead.
My spark plug analogy might not be perfect (analogies rarely are)...
Well. you've now admitted that much, at least... which leaves me wondering why you had to quibble over my original analogy in the first place. Moot point, really.
The creeping forward of intrusiveness is part of a continuum that you may not have seen. Cryptic had an updater for City of Heroes that didn't even need to run to launch the game between patches, you could start from the executable and login information was done at the server level, cut to Champions Online, and then STO, and the launchers had to be used every time that you logged into the game. Why? To keep track of the integrity of the game files would be my guess. I'm sure that people wondered if that step was necessary, as well. This is the next logical step in that continuum. Whether you think that it went too far at the previous step, or if it's going too far at this step, or if it will go too far in some future step is all up to your personal tastes.
I'm not telling you that you shouldn't push back if it's crossed your personal threshold, I'm just saying that false reasoning about what this step really is does a disservice to your point. PWE isn't switching to Arc for our benefit, but for theirs, that should be obvious to any of us, but their benefit from it; a single code base to maintain for launchers, a marketing platform to put all of their games in view of anyone who plays any of them, and an integrated method to detect common forms of cheat software, would be severely impacted if Arc turned out to also be doing a number of even more intrusive, or, even worse, downright malicious things.
As far as my own personal line goes, I'm fine with Arc, barring any evidence of anything more intrusive than what they say it is doing. I refuse to believe, lacking any evidence of such a thing, that there is a sinister purpose behind it, but rather believe that there is a marketing/efficiency/corporate gain motivation for this change.
I'm quite familiar with the CoH patcher/launcher; I played the game for the latter 5-1/2 years of it's existence. I'm also (having been there at the time) quite familiar with the furor that resulted from the last change to the launcher. I'll give a quick summation of why that didn't perturb me, as this one does:
The CoH Launcher didn't a) continue running in the background while I played, and b) didn't continue running after I'd shut the client down. The NCUpdater was... a different piece of garbage altogether, but I got used to shutting that off manually all the time. Regardless, I don't want a) or b) here. Sure, as far as b) is concerned, I can kill it here just as I did there, but I shouldn't have to be doing that. Neither should anyone else, particularly those folks that aren't experienced in doing so. PWE shouldn't even be designing something that works this way. I'm sure I could present another analogy for what's wrong with this, but there's no point in generating more quibbles. People can come up with their own. As for a), I'm no more interested in, or trusting of, PWE innocently monitoring my game play "to make sure I'm not cheating" than I am of having the NSA monitoring my phone and internet "to make sure I'm not a terrorist". I'm neither of those things, and I'm not going to meekly accept either situation.
Oops, another analogy, there. Sorry about that.
All that being said, the only thing about this situation that has me genuinely angry is (as I've implied earlier) the presumptuous and dismissive attitude that gets launched at anyone who has concerns about this whole situation. I honestly don't care if people accept this change at face value. That's their prerogative. It'd be nice if the rest of us got the same consideration.
I found another discussion about this, and found im not the only one concerned about PW's client out there in the gaming world, it does install spyware, but with all that data collected about all of us, why the overkill of documenting us? will they sell it like Peanut labs does?? How safe or exposed will we be once they get a direct line into your life?
Is there no way to reason with them on this, surely if a company wants to take precautions certain things can be put into place, but i still say turning someones pc into marketing siphon is going too far. There are better ways to acheve input from us, we do talk to and some of us even game with the employees. You also seen how fast on other threads people respond to cheaters once caught in the act. So trust us, and we will trust you. Dont allow yourselves to loose the down home comforts of a familiar business and friendly relationship with customers, and replace it with the next chinese santa joke.
Are you willing to spend a few million dollars buying PWE stock, aka buying their attention?
No?
There's your answer.
lol Well, i gather if we where to get enough Trek Nerds from around the world to give a donation to a (Save STO) fund, it might be possible, but the game would have to be something that appealed to them first. Since its not built around any particular version of the popular Trek titles, and solely on the JJ Abrams version, then Im guessing our only real shot to getting their attention would fall through. Its kept up to be a good sci fi game, but doesnt actually follow trek enough for devout Trek fans to invest their time into for a source of the genre. Maybe ill do my part and start playing the lottery every week, if I win I can become soul stock holder and put the ARc budget into more better projects like fixing bugs and adding in other things this game needs first. LIke to accommodate each Trek version with uniforms and props used from the shows, and allow all trek fans to get to play out their trek fantasy's...yes, even allowing miranda, constitution and NX skins for T-5 ships!. PLus allowing you to choose your mesh for weapons to your choosen weapon can look like it did on a particular show too. Maybe even fix the voice chat. Theres a lot to tackle in this game, ARC isnt necessary and if I had a say, I would treat my customers better then that. You cant suspect every player of cheating and trying to swindle you, so we all get punished and treated like criminals that need to be watched. Like i mentioned before, trust your players, they will talk to you and help the game if you just give em a chance! This forum has had many functions, one of which is reporting things when found, bugs, cheating and Ferengi criers claiming overpowered. (How it feels to get nerfed) <--loosing our launcher included.
I found another discussion about this, and found im not the only one concerned about PW's client out there in the gaming world, it does install spyware, but with all that data collected about all of us, why the overkill of documenting us? will they sell it like Peanut labs does?? How safe or exposed will we be once they get a direct line into your life?
I don't want ARC myself (not using it, and will quit if they make it mandatory for STO); that said, I wouldn't use an outdated thread that's now nearly 1 year old to support a claim that even if you read further down is said old thread, isn't supported by many who started to monitor ARC back then.
I want to see ARC remain optional for those of us who can still install the base client and launcher using old CD-Roms; and if the current version of ARC can be proven to install spyware, great; but even from what I've seen they have had a lot of changes and taken feedback into account in many aspects of ARC as their development of it has continued.
If it does actually install spyware, there should be newer sources of evidence pointing to that fact; and those should be the sources you use to support your claims.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I don't want ARC myself (not using it, and will quit if they make it mandatory for STO); that said, I wouldn't use an outdated thread that's now nearly 1 year old to support a claim that even if you read further down is said old thread, isn't supported by many who started to monitor ARC back then.
I want to see ARC remain optional for those of us who can still install the base client and launcher using old CD-Roms; and if the current version of ARC can be proven to install spyware, great; but even from what I've seen they have had a lot of changes and taken feedback into account in many aspects of ARC as their development of it has continued.
If it does actually install spyware, there should be newer sources of evidence pointing to that fact; and those should be the sources you use to support your claims.
Yeah, i guess the first page of this thread should be all feedback they need on what the customer wants. Lets see if they will listen to us...
I do not like it not one bit it is just annoying to heck. I'd love to have the original style back where STO is its own program.
"Doctor, tomorrow morning when they detect the warp signature from your ship and realize that humans have discovered how to travel faster than light, they decide to alter their course and make first contact with Earth, right here. It is one of the pivotal moments in human history, Doctor. You get to make first contact with an alien race! And after you do... everything begins to change."
I found another discussion about this, and found im not the only one concerned about PW's client out there in the gaming world, it does install spyware, but with all that data collected about all of us, why the overkill of documenting us? will they sell it like Peanut labs does?? How safe or exposed will we be once they get a direct line into your life?
Is there no way to reason with them on this, surely if a company wants to take precautions certain things can be put into place, but i still say turning someones pc into marketing siphon is going too far. There are better ways to acheve input from us, we do talk to and some of us even game with the employees. You also seen how fast on other threads people respond to cheaters once caught in the act. So trust us, and we will trust you. Dont allow yourselves to loose the down home comforts of a familiar business and friendly relationship with customers, and replace it with the next chinese santa joke.
ARC is like Steam flat out plain and simple. If you trust steam then you really should have no way to argue that ARC is now worse. They've already said what ARC does but some people won't listen to it, nor the players that are supporting ARC that have tried to help make people feel better about it.
But yes, a thread that's over a year old that just is the same as this thread? Not exactly supporting anything here...
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
ARC is like Steam flat out plain and simple. If you trust steam then you really should have no way to argue that ARC is now worse. They've already said what ARC does but some people won't listen to it, nor the players that are supporting ARC that have tried to help make people feel better about it.
But yes, a thread that's over a year old that just is the same as this thread? Not exactly supporting anything here...
I think its mainly the fact (like in the EULA) that they can take screenshots of your screen and get your password, that spooked me initially. Everyone wants to look over my shoulder, do i have that dishonest of a face? ..I dont use steam, im old fashioned, i prefer my cdrom launcher. My internet security program, allows me to double click my icon and run my games that easy. But something like ARC, steam or even real player, it warns me not to trust em. It is a lot of things, im sure youve heard the saying, "once bitten twice shy." The employes ive dealth with in this company seem decent enough people, but no matter how I paw at this client i just dont trust it, and would like to avoid it. It should be just optional!
I get your point on the thread, i missed the date on it. But you cant be surprised that so many would have this reaction in this day and age...in the 40' and 50's people had more reason to trust, now days....well look at it out there, everyone has gotten greedy and turned to deception to achieve their means. I appreciate those who where willing to assist, but if you dont want something not even a spoon full of sugar will help it go down.
I think its mainly the fact (like in the EULA) that they can take screenshots of your screen and get your password, that spooked me initially. Everyone wants to look over my shoulder, do i have that dishonest of a face? ..I dont use steam, im old fashioned, i prefer my cdrom launcher. My internet security program, allows me to double click my icon and run my games that easy. But something like ARC, steam or even real player, it warns me not to trust em. It is a lot of things, im sure youve heard the saying, "once bitten twice shy." The employes ive dealth with in this company seem decent enough people, but no matter how I paw at this client i just dont trust it, and would like to avoid it. It should be just optional!
I get your point on the thread, i missed the date on it. But you cant be surprised that so many would have this reaction in this day and age...in the 40' and 50's people had more reason to trust, now days....well look at it out there, everyone has gotten greedy and turned to deception to achieve their means. I appreciate those who where willing to assist, but if you dont want something not even a spoon full of sugar will help it go down.
Psst - if they want your password to any game PWE runs and operates, they can just change it :P
That part doesn't scare me one bit, because people have shown what ARC does and doesn't do. Yes, I'm a supporter of ARC but not because I'm a PWE volunteer or because I think Cryptic/PWE can do no wrong (which apparently most people think that about me) but because I honestly like the program. It does need work still so I'm hoping the mandatory date isn't anytime soon (and I honestly have no real clue when it'll hit all I know is that it will) because there is a lot of things that could be worked on before it's pushed into full use. I saw that they did it for JD and honestly I understand the player base being annoyed by it. It isn't ready yet for that leap so if they do it too early yes, I'm going to be disappointed that a few of the issues that it has that can be damaging to the ARC system weren't looked at or even replied to about.
But that's my personal gripe and I do get those that are hard set in not wanting arc, like you, will never be happy with it. You have your reasons, and you've said you've read everyone's replies and just still don't feel good about it. Fair enough To each their own.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
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but the , "when willl arc become mandatory!" whine, makes u look like a snob
Comparing me to Rodney Dangerfield, i get no respect...no respect at all, boy I tell u, it aint easy being me! :rolleyes:
I think it was a legitimate question, im not the first to ask ether. I was just hoping i would be the first that was answered.
In my experience it runs smoothly uses very little cpu or ram (WAY less than Steam), and it has made zen transactions and managing feeds much easier.
If you are following the crowd, please shut up and try it before you bag on it.
And for those having all these supposed adware or performance issues, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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Sounds like firewall or port forwarding issue to me. Happens with a lot of connective apps. I have had no issues.
Thank you for your concern, but no other programs or websites experience similar connectivity issues at the same time, only STO. The issue is Arc.
It's because your firewall and/or port is not allowing STO/Arc to work. Just allow them to do so, simple as that.
A simple analogy would be for me to buy a car, and then being told that if I do not use a specific brand and style of seat cover, I'm not allowed to drive my car.
I don't care what it's for. I don't care how little resources are required to run it. The dishonest tactics being used to force it on me tell me that the people doing so are dishonest. It's as simple as that. If this works for you, that's fine. I wasn't put on this Earth to tell you who to trust. Quit trying to do the same to me. When PWE announces that we'll be able to shut Arc off after starting STO and still being able to play, I'll consider trusting them a bit more, but the taste of this whole affair is going to stick for a long time.
And for all the brainless clowns that will come along and inevitably claim "That's a bad analogy, so it's invalid" I will only say that a) you obviously don't know what an analogy actually is, and b) your lack of education makes any rebuttal invalid.
1) That IS a bad analogy.
2) Insulting people by calling them "brainless clowns" and saying that they have "a lack of education" because they don't understand your analogy is not a way to endear people to this plight.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell, "1984"
Name calling comes from frustration, think of everything people have said about me and my resistance of this, once I discovered what they where up to, the costume unlock no longer seemed worth the price. Everyone is so eager for the next bribe they forget to reason why the bribes and secrecy are so thick this time around. Also take into account that they needed ads and puppets to push for this project, since the bribes didnt sway everyone once suspicion arose on how they where going about this and the attitude they used to play down people not on board. PLus they arent speaking as much to answer questions now that they have been called on for a few things, things they possibly hoped would be overlooked by the bribes and the downplay plants, i hope im wrong but its taken hold of my curiosity to know whats up with pwe and this ARC client...to not feel they have a product that could stand up to questions or legitimate criticism...
...well, am i making sense? I realize im labeled as anti ARC, but stop and think for a minute, then consider my position. Finding the truth isnt easy or popular, but you will always have to choose one pill or the other.
I do know what an analogy is, and the prime characteristic of one is that the things being compared have to be analogous. Car seat covers and Arc are not. An analogy related to a car and Arc would be something that is, and always has been required to make the car work, like gasoline, spark plugs, or a key being changed for a different version of the same basic thing, since Arc is merely taking the place of something that was always necessary to play, but not an intrinsic part of the game to begin with, the launcher. Arc : STO :: different spark plug type that supersedes the old one that is no longer manufactured : car.
Mostly the sock puppet reference is for those new accounts that popped up trying to start the arc fan club, u remember, the ones that went away after the arc thread and chat channel didnt take off. They where so blatantly obvious it was almost funny watching them. The one link is to answer the reoccurring question of prove they are spying on u, if u want more snips i have compiled a bunch from this thread for everyone. here
Ive always advertised i use drama and jokes for visual aids to establish my points, nothing new there. I have a lot to loose with this game, so the fear of loosing my game to an unnecessary client is a factor just like people who show up to give me and anyone else who says NO to ARC, the Herod speech. Im well aware they rule here, hence the clip. ( say unnecessary, because if its so necessary, why allow steam in its place if watching us is such a factor??)The uncertainty and dought comes from them using that (obamacare style tactic) you have to get it to see whats in it, i tried that, it didnt work....and even before i began to mock ARC my requests for assistance fell on def ears. But im now thankful they didnt respond, thats when i took it upon myself to find a solution and discovered more then i expected, including how fast the easy people will turn on u once you resist and ask questions!
I have said before, if you like it, you use it. But why should I have to? A company should have the players interest in mind, to make things comfortable for them so they wanna come back, its situations like this where i have to defend my position of why i dont want it (well gee, the problem must be me for not wanting to live in a box) and pretty much have them thumb their noses at me for not being a good boy and eating whatever they put on my plate...u know something this is not worth my time, i shouldnt have to explain myself to everyone. If they arent going to provide me with something that is fun and enjoyable for ME, why should i have to just accept it because its expected of me to obey...no, when you cut me off my launcher im just outta here. If they dont like it, tough...if they dont care, then that saves us both the trouble of another explanation!
Typical tactics? Like forcing this unnecessary software operation on people? You talk about uncertainty and doubt. Yes, I am, and will remain, uncertain and doubtful about PW's motives for implementing this. As for how we respond to its supporters, see my above comment. Supporters that have been every bit as snarky as its detractors. That's a pot/kettle discussion if ever there was one.
It all depends on what you think I was trying to analogize; functionality vs. enforced use. But if you really want to poke at the functionality side of it, your own analogy is bad. This change is requiring me to replace my car starter, a device that doesn't run continuously, with one that does. Needlessly. And no, I wouldn't buy/own a car that operated this way, either.
I see, you equate this with real world politics. It's ESD chat on the forums. I think I'm done reading your posts now. By the way, I saw someone, perhaps not you, claiming that a poster was a sock puppet that had been backdated. Truly a remarkable amount of paranoia. I tend to believe that said poster's over the top praise for Arc was a form of trolling the easy targets on here, rather than some malevolent plan by PWE to impersonate a grassroots movement in support of Arc, but to each their own.
The FUD comment was directed at catstar, but, if the shoe fits, I suppose it can go on your foot as well.
My spark plug analogy might not be perfect (analogies rarely are), but it's a heck of a lot closer than seat covers. There was always enforced use, be it the original launcher or the one that will eventually be integrated into Arc., so an argument based on that being new is a non-starter.
The creeping forward of intrusiveness is part of a continuum that you may not have seen. Cryptic had an updater for City of Heroes that didn't even need to run to launch the game between patches, you could start from the executable and login information was done at the server level, cut to Champions Online, and then STO, and the launchers had to be used every time that you logged into the game. Why? To keep track of the integrity of the game files would be my guess. I'm sure that people wondered if that step was necessary, as well. This is the next logical step in that continuum. Whether you think that it went too far at the previous step, or if it's going too far at this step, or if it will go too far in some future step is all up to your personal tastes.
I'm not telling you that you shouldn't push back if it's crossed your personal threshold, I'm just saying that false reasoning about what this step really is does a disservice to your point. PWE isn't switching to Arc for our benefit, but for theirs, that should be obvious to any of us, but their benefit from it; a single code base to maintain for launchers, a marketing platform to put all of their games in view of anyone who plays any of them, and an integrated method to detect common forms of cheat software, would be severely impacted if Arc turned out to also be doing a number of even more intrusive, or, even worse, downright malicious things.
As far as my own personal line goes, I'm fine with Arc, barring any evidence of anything more intrusive than what they say it is doing. I refuse to believe, lacking any evidence of such a thing, that there is a sinister purpose behind it, but rather believe that there is a marketing/efficiency/corporate gain motivation for this change.
Whoah, we must be in the presence of greatness...he speaks with such authority over us! My apologies great one...i am not worthy to receive an audience with you! XD
Its true i spoke with frustration the other day, but i stand by it!
But have u noticed how many have asked those not in favor of arc to prove it, that its spyware....after many pages, it is true...they are collecting data, but now that has been established, the new defense is, "well, they wont do anything malicious with it" ..ok, so I will now ask you this, how do you know it, and what proof do YOU have that they wont abuse it?? Ever filled out stuff from peanut labs? What does a company do with your info? How do you know what they really have in mind? If it was bad they wont tell u, or they even get a disgruntled employee, what then?? I mean, what strait answers do we really get from em?
...and how long before they add in that ignore button on here already? Im upsetting the sensitive people! :rolleyes:
( a little at a time, but its all beginning to make sense....i just have a plan and timeline) =^.^=
The Truth hurts and they are beginning to see what your saying is making sense
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As if.
Either way, I'm with anodynes - catstarsto (and many others) is politicizing Arc when it's just a simple game launcher that isn't going to hurt anyone and their paranoia is doing nothing but scaring new players away. At this point, I think it's best to walk away and live and let live.
I used that as an analogy since it was the best comparison i could find, that program was bugged and had a ton of issues to fix, it was forced and there will be a penalty for not complying. PLus there wasnt a lot of info on what the plan for it was in all, they still havent released all of their intentions yet, you will just have to get it and see what happens =O.o=.
FOr the new players (Cryptic rocks!)....is the game fun, yes, is it the best sci fi game out there, yes, the control and freedom while inside the game is unmatched, is ARC bad? That depends on your perception of security and if you value privacy. If you dont mind clients like Raptr or Steam that have access to your system, passwords and advanced permissions...then it probably wouldnt bother u, but if that intrusion is something your trying to avoid, then Arc may pose problems for u down the road when it becomes mandatory. When looking for a game, shop around and see if the company is willing to accommodate for your convenience, comfort and safety.. they all give away digital freebee's so just plan ahead.
I'm quite familiar with the CoH patcher/launcher; I played the game for the latter 5-1/2 years of it's existence. I'm also (having been there at the time) quite familiar with the furor that resulted from the last change to the launcher. I'll give a quick summation of why that didn't perturb me, as this one does:
The CoH Launcher didn't a) continue running in the background while I played, and b) didn't continue running after I'd shut the client down. The NCUpdater was... a different piece of garbage altogether, but I got used to shutting that off manually all the time. Regardless, I don't want a) or b) here. Sure, as far as b) is concerned, I can kill it here just as I did there, but I shouldn't have to be doing that. Neither should anyone else, particularly those folks that aren't experienced in doing so. PWE shouldn't even be designing something that works this way. I'm sure I could present another analogy for what's wrong with this, but there's no point in generating more quibbles. People can come up with their own. As for a), I'm no more interested in, or trusting of, PWE innocently monitoring my game play "to make sure I'm not cheating" than I am of having the NSA monitoring my phone and internet "to make sure I'm not a terrorist". I'm neither of those things, and I'm not going to meekly accept either situation.
Oops, another analogy, there. Sorry about that.
All that being said, the only thing about this situation that has me genuinely angry is (as I've implied earlier) the presumptuous and dismissive attitude that gets launched at anyone who has concerns about this whole situation. I honestly don't care if people accept this change at face value. That's their prerogative. It'd be nice if the rest of us got the same consideration.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/393580/Do-not-install-ARC-on-your-pc-.html
Is there no way to reason with them on this, surely if a company wants to take precautions certain things can be put into place, but i still say turning someones pc into marketing siphon is going too far. There are better ways to acheve input from us, we do talk to and some of us even game with the employees. You also seen how fast on other threads people respond to cheaters once caught in the act. So trust us, and we will trust you. Dont allow yourselves to loose the down home comforts of a familiar business and friendly relationship with customers, and replace it with the next chinese santa joke.
Are you willing to spend a few million dollars buying PWE stock, aka buying their attention?
No?
There's your answer.
lol Well, i gather if we where to get enough Trek Nerds from around the world to give a donation to a (Save STO) fund, it might be possible, but the game would have to be something that appealed to them first. Since its not built around any particular version of the popular Trek titles, and solely on the JJ Abrams version, then Im guessing our only real shot to getting their attention would fall through. Its kept up to be a good sci fi game, but doesnt actually follow trek enough for devout Trek fans to invest their time into for a source of the genre. Maybe ill do my part and start playing the lottery every week, if I win I can become soul stock holder and put the ARc budget into more better projects like fixing bugs and adding in other things this game needs first. LIke to accommodate each Trek version with uniforms and props used from the shows, and allow all trek fans to get to play out their trek fantasy's...yes, even allowing miranda, constitution and NX skins for T-5 ships!. PLus allowing you to choose your mesh for weapons to your choosen weapon can look like it did on a particular show too. Maybe even fix the voice chat. Theres a lot to tackle in this game, ARC isnt necessary and if I had a say, I would treat my customers better then that. You cant suspect every player of cheating and trying to swindle you, so we all get punished and treated like criminals that need to be watched. Like i mentioned before, trust your players, they will talk to you and help the game if you just give em a chance! This forum has had many functions, one of which is reporting things when found, bugs, cheating and Ferengi criers claiming overpowered. (How it feels to get nerfed) <--loosing our launcher included.
darn forgot to work in a cat reference...
I don't want ARC myself (not using it, and will quit if they make it mandatory for STO); that said, I wouldn't use an outdated thread that's now nearly 1 year old to support a claim that even if you read further down is said old thread, isn't supported by many who started to monitor ARC back then.
I want to see ARC remain optional for those of us who can still install the base client and launcher using old CD-Roms; and if the current version of ARC can be proven to install spyware, great; but even from what I've seen they have had a lot of changes and taken feedback into account in many aspects of ARC as their development of it has continued.
If it does actually install spyware, there should be newer sources of evidence pointing to that fact; and those should be the sources you use to support your claims.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Yeah, i guess the first page of this thread should be all feedback they need on what the customer wants. Lets see if they will listen to us...
ARC is like Steam flat out plain and simple. If you trust steam then you really should have no way to argue that ARC is now worse. They've already said what ARC does but some people won't listen to it, nor the players that are supporting ARC that have tried to help make people feel better about it.
But yes, a thread that's over a year old that just is the same as this thread? Not exactly supporting anything here...
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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I think its mainly the fact (like in the EULA) that they can take screenshots of your screen and get your password, that spooked me initially. Everyone wants to look over my shoulder, do i have that dishonest of a face? ..I dont use steam, im old fashioned, i prefer my cdrom launcher. My internet security program, allows me to double click my icon and run my games that easy. But something like ARC, steam or even real player, it warns me not to trust em. It is a lot of things, im sure youve heard the saying, "once bitten twice shy." The employes ive dealth with in this company seem decent enough people, but no matter how I paw at this client i just dont trust it, and would like to avoid it. It should be just optional!
I get your point on the thread, i missed the date on it. But you cant be surprised that so many would have this reaction in this day and age...in the 40' and 50's people had more reason to trust, now days....well look at it out there, everyone has gotten greedy and turned to deception to achieve their means. I appreciate those who where willing to assist, but if you dont want something not even a spoon full of sugar will help it go down.
That part doesn't scare me one bit, because people have shown what ARC does and doesn't do. Yes, I'm a supporter of ARC but not because I'm a PWE volunteer or because I think Cryptic/PWE can do no wrong (which apparently most people think that about me) but because I honestly like the program. It does need work still so I'm hoping the mandatory date isn't anytime soon (and I honestly have no real clue when it'll hit all I know is that it will) because there is a lot of things that could be worked on before it's pushed into full use. I saw that they did it for JD and honestly I understand the player base being annoyed by it. It isn't ready yet for that leap so if they do it too early yes, I'm going to be disappointed that a few of the issues that it has that can be damaging to the ARC system weren't looked at or even replied to about.
But that's my personal gripe and I do get those that are hard set in not wanting arc, like you, will never be happy with it. You have your reasons, and you've said you've read everyone's replies and just still don't feel good about it. Fair enough
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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Askray how was the new X-men? Was it worth the money?
I'm sorry to people who I, in the past, insulted, annoyed, etc.