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Request for new Raptor/escort game mechanic
pweistheworst
Member Posts: 986 Arc User
The new features we've seen for cruisers and raiders this year (well, the raider/BOP mechanic is technically coming in 2014) makes we wish there was "something" new for raptors/escorts.
Granted, these ships are already pretty great, but if raiders and cruisers get special features I don't see why Raptors and escorts can't have "something."
I'm not sure what we should have, but I was thinking about something along the lines of the special BOff abilities we saw in Sphere of Influence ... maybe something like a one-button combo of two special attack patterns plus cannon rapid fire that deals massive damage.
Give it a long cool down so you can't just spam it in PVP and rip an entire team of players to shreds, but make it cool enough (powerful enough) that players say "THAT is why you want a Raptor or an escort."
Granted, these ships are already pretty great, but if raiders and cruisers get special features I don't see why Raptors and escorts can't have "something."
I'm not sure what we should have, but I was thinking about something along the lines of the special BOff abilities we saw in Sphere of Influence ... maybe something like a one-button combo of two special attack patterns plus cannon rapid fire that deals massive damage.
Give it a long cool down so you can't just spam it in PVP and rip an entire team of players to shreds, but make it cool enough (powerful enough) that players say "THAT is why you want a Raptor or an escort."
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Post edited by pweistheworst on
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For Raptors and Escorts in general, I like the OPs idea of a massive burst attack.
R.I.P
They will give defiant shooter mode lol
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Cruiser commands and flanking are both technically passives.
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I'd settle for a passive ... I just don't want the devs to leave out the raptors and the escorts when it comes to special ship class abilities.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Sci vessels will get them first.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Yes, raptors though could use a bone throwing to them, fixing the stupid pivot point on the Qin and bringing them up to standard to Fed and Romulan ships would be enough without a special mechanic.
Bad players assume escorts with cannons do more dps/damage then beams. It's is quite the opposite
In pve that is
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
This. Well-built escorts are already the top spike damage dealers, and I don't think I've seen one person call the game "Escorts Online" since cruiser commands debuted.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I think that escorts should just be the flat out KINGS of DPS. They fire cannons, stuff melts. That and dual HEAVY cannons should ONLY be allowed on escorts and they should be the hardest hitting weapon in the game.
Well something along those lines.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Only if we go back to having Escorts be the glass cannons they were meant to be. :rolleyes:
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I can live with that.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
cept that cruisers EASILY outtank escorts and raptors.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
This. Though I can't tell you how hard I laughed trying to find one of the "Escorts Online" meme pictures via a standard search engine. That was not what I meant Google!
In all honesty, though, I've always wondered why Science Vessels get Subsystem Targeting (a Tac ability) instead of something more... Science-y?... like a similar selection of innate Ensign Sci abilities instead... maybe move the Subsystem Targeting over to Escorts/Raptors and give Science Vessels something better, since Escorts don't need much of a boost. Not sure why, but Raptors somehow underperform what their stats would imply... Hmmm.
I think he meant more tanky than raiders.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
After a fair bit of consideration about mechanics and role in Star Trek itself, my proposal would be to remove subsystem targetting from Science Vessels(they really need something more suited to proper science stuff) and give escorts the ability to "focus" their attacks at a subsystem until changed/de-activated.
Have it work like cruiser or carrier commands where you have a 'focus tray' and while you have one active a target will have reduced performance in that subsystem as long as the corresponding escort is firing at it. (The bridge officer abilities will still be useful for temporarily weakening a subsystem even further and their ability to disable a subsystem outright - they might even be more attractive options with Focus mechanics.)
As a Mockup of sorts:
Targeting Focus: Weapons
-Target loses 10 power in Weapons while being fired upon.(?)
-Target deals 10% less weapon damage while being fired upon.
Targeting Focus: Shields
-Target loses 10 power in Shields while being fired upon.(?)
-Target regenerates shields 10% slower and heals shields 10% less while being fired upon.
Targeting Focus: Engines
-Target loses 10 power in Engines while being fired upon.(?)
-Target moves and turns 10% slower while being fired upon.
Targeting Focus: Auxiliary Systems
-Target loses 10 power in Auxiliary while being fired upon.(?)
-Target recharges abilities 5-10% slower while being fired upon.
Escorts don't need a new mechanic.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I don't think Escorts need anything right now either, but down the road they'll likely need something when they fall behind impending feature-creep.
this is actually one of the few good ideas i've seen on this subject (and i've seen alot so far...)
this doesnt make escorts any more overpowered then they already are, as that slight drop in shield power isnt drastic, and regen drain only stops one or two builds anyway. besides, i've always seen science as the counter to escorts, and no matter which of these (except maybe aux for obvious reasons) you choose, a good science wouldnt be effected. since a science shouldnt be focusing on engines, they're shields are naturally really tough, and easier to make impenetrable, and weapons power doesnt help much as they're real source of domination is science powers anyway (and torpedoes).
i do feel before this gets considered however, we need to give science something good. i heard they were planning to give science a second deflector, but really, how's that gonna help? so they can have both omega and maco deflectors at once, but would that really help anything? after playing with science powers that are buffed by specific deflectors, i dont think so.
instead they need a unique skill system. some type of passive heal to allies hull could make sense, but unlikely, and would only serve to make some of the really OP science builds that much more impossible to kill. giving them a special sensor system that makes targets more likely to loose subsystems when being shot could work, as that's the general idea of subsystem targeting for science anyway. allow the science to relay the location of the target's weapons to allied ships so all damage done to said ship has a 2% chance to disable the weapons, shields, etc.
however, this feels a bit too obvious a maneuver to do. science has always been the most complicated class, not because it's not usable in the game, but because all of it's properties requires a unique understanding of science specific systems. if you designed a system where by having a science present, you could modify the possibilities of an entire fleet. cruiser commands are designed to redirect the offensive direction of a group, either by making it tankier, faster, or allow more power. this is because a cruiser's place is at the front, tanking. a science's place is at the back, not because it's weak, but because it's supportive. if science had the option to buff a whole fleet and make all attacks AoE regardless of skills used, this would give them a definite roll, without actually making any of the current science builds any more overpowered. a science has the least amount of weapon slots, so they personally would benefit less from this buff, but all ships nearby would.
another possible skill would be to reverse the process. if instead of making all outborn energy expand to hit multiple targets, the science made all inborn energy scatter, this would also make them highly usable, without actually buffing any current builds. imagine the tank is taking alot of damage, but you have 4 other ships at full health. the science can refract incoming damage so less of it actually hits the cruiser, but in turn makes it so the rest of the ships share the burden. both of these skills would have a great place in the game and make sense since they are supposed to support their allies and not do things alone (at least this is how i see it.)
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Then you're going to have a field day with the KDF Battlecruisers, who even in Star Trek canon from TOS even into DS9 / Dominion War, were heavily favoring forward firepower. They generally fired cannons / pulses, not beams. From the D7 of TOS to the Vor'Cha, they were using large cannons.
Edit to add:
Escorts / Destroyers don't need any new mechanics in general. They already have:
- Supreme firepower potential
- Excellent handling
- Higher speeds, more defense bonus
- Shield Mods that are practically Cruiser level strength... on top of the higher speeds and defense bonus no less.
Not only can Escorts deal the hurt out, but their shields can take punishment, AND they have better ability to avoid damage altogether. The devs have given the Glass Cannons better defenses. This game for a long time and only until recently, has been called "Escorts Online."
Escorts do not need anymore mechanics to make them "on par" with everything else, because Escorts had kept that bar up so high that Cruisers and Science Vessels had nothing to keep up. Only recently Cruisers, or more specifically, TAC Cruisers, have caught up. Science Vessels are still a joke.
Regarding Raptors, their damage output *is* still respectable. They have the TAC setups for it, though a 5 TAC Console layout would help. The way Raptors are however... their handling, their hull / shield, the Qin's awkward turns, etc. They need some sort of update because they were left behind long, long ago. Even the Guramba Destroyer has been left behind, but at least you still see them here and there, and not at all in PVP anymore. I'm not sure what it needs to be, but the Raptors need a look at.
you're confusing ease with power. yes, tactical and specifically escorts have dominated a majority of the content in this game for a long time. i am not a tactical, but do favor escorts (personally i'm an engineer, which means i have to work alot harder to keep up with tacticals in my escort.) as an engineer, i'm much tankier, and since i'm a fleet multivector, i can have one lt. commander science. for this reason i like to think i'm split perfectly between all 3 classes.
tactical did have the upper hand for the longest time, for ONE reason: it was easy to set up to be the best. with rare quality gear off the exchange of only MK11, you could easily hold your own in an escort no matter which of the original 3 STFs you did.
cruisers had to invest in the bigger gear and have a bit of time on their hands, but they could do the same after a while.
science is so miss understood, and i have a feeling you dont understand it either. science is carefully balancing limited resources with the mentality 'quality>quantity'. you dont play a science for an easy win. science takes a long, challenging art of work, but with the right gear, the hours math, and alot of patience, science can/does whoop tactical and engineering so hard, they're left burning on the wayside.
i was once in a squad of 2 bugships, 2 defiants, and myself with a Multivector. we met a science temporal ship that knew what it was doing, and by itself it murdered all 5 tacticals without EVER loosing a shield section. by maxing plasma, and shields, they made a ship tankier then 2-3 oddys with good builds.
i'm not saying Escorts need a buff, i'm just warning you not to say science is a joke. while they are rare, if you ever meet a good science, it'll kick your rear end, as well as all your teammates without ever taking you seriously.
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Just an FYI, the Temporal Science Ship is a pretty OP ship. It has BOP like BOFF flexibility, can set up for any degree of science to go with whatever build, has a very high shield mod, and handles exactly like an Escort.
Don't be a bit too eager to say Science is GTG because someone is flying an OP ship and knew exactly what they were doing. Other science ships not named "Vesta" cannot compete on that kind of level.
Don't dismiss the Palisade either, in terms of keeping to only lockbox sci ships.
5 sci consoles, carrier-esque BOFF layout (Cmdr, 2 Lt cmdrs, Lt), shields as good as the Temporal sci, more hull but less turn than the Temporal Sci.
Cmdr Sci
Lt. Cmdr Eng
Lt. Cmdr Uni
Lt. Uni
There is a LOT you can do with that.