Just to sum up what you said, you bought 14M ec with real money that would have otherwise taken you another few months to earn. That, sir, is pay to win.
You don't STF and you don't grind -- what else would you be doing to earn 14M ec, exactly, besides pay-to-win?
I'm still not sure id term selling keys bought with cash as pay to win. Pay to win implies that you have paid cash for a advantage in game play that sets you above other players who have not.
Al this did was accelerate how quickly he got EC, which he can then spend, but he cant buy anything with that EC anyone else couldn't buy.
Some of the Lobi stuff, that's closer to pay to win.
and personally I went years without hitting 10 mill, but I don't grind for EC, but I knew about the cap. plus bare in mind some people turn zone off, because lets be honest, some days its a cess pit.
that all being said fault still lies with a uninformed user since the information is out there and readily available, but we can point that out without being insulting about it.
as I said, expensive learning lesson, I'm sure we have all had some in games or real life.
That's not actually pay to win through selling keys as I can't remember the exact definition of p2w but its more of the only way to be competitive is to use real money and obviously that's not the case with selling keys.
Obviously, because he couldn't possibly buy anything competitive with the EC he gets from a sale.
I'm still not sure id term selling keys bought with cash as pay to win. Pay to win implies that you have paid cash for a advantage in game play that sets you above other players who have not.
Al this did was accelerate how quickly he got EC, which he can then spend, but he cant buy anything with that EC anyone else couldn't buy.
Some of the Lobi stuff, that's closer to pay to win.
and personally I went years without hitting 10 mill, but I don't grind for EC, but I knew about the cap. plus bare in mind some people turn zone off, because lets be honest, some days its a cess pit.
that all being said fault still lies with a uninformed user since the information is out there and readily available, but we can point that out without being insulting about it.
as I said, expensive learning lesson, I'm sure we have all had some in games or real life.
Pay To Win is when a game allows ANY mechanic to gain a competitive edge including shortening the time required for that individual to gain a competitive edge by allowing said player to pay for an actual item or means to discount the time or risk required to normally obtain the item.
Lets break this down, did he buy EC in a manner that lessened the time to normally obtain it? Can EC he bought be used to buy competitive items (like energy leech consoles?) ? Then it is pay-to-win. Can you find a fallacy with this logic?
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Buying keys IS P2W, but P2W is actually a necessity in STO. If there were no P2W players, the rest of us couldn't even get a fleet modules off the exchange(as well as lock box / lobi ships) nor could we convert our Dil to Zen.
So while we put the negative spin on it, we really do need players that do P2W. Be it keys, modules or a straight Zen to Dil transfer.
Basically, what I am saying is that HE PAYS SO I CAN WIN.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
It WOULD have been common knowledge for me, but in my 3 year STO career Ive never been so EC rich at one time to even hit the cap to know it was there. I was just giddy watching my keys fly off the exchange as fast as I could post them and the dollar signs chinging in my eyes didnt once consider looking at the running balance in that quick 2 minutes in real time.
Recall that your EC balance shows in the bottom left of your Exchange screen. You said the keys were selling within 15 seconds which means your EC balance was essentially updating in real time.
Cryptic was informing you in real time what your balance was doing, besides the well-posted and often-discussed EC cap limit and the frequent recommendations to spend 500 Zen to remove that limit.
I have to say it - you were simply not paying attention to the information they provide.
I'd hate to play a game that pops up a warning every time someone does anything, because someone somewhere felt that they need bright flashing lights to make them pay attention to what they are doing, or learn about things before they do them.
I get enough of that in the real world.
(Not saying this to be harsh or critical, just the point that the info was there, you missed it, lesson learned, please holler at Cryptic to fix REAL issues not player errors)
I would define pay to win as being able to plunk down for the absolute best gear in game. But you cant do that in STO, best gear is locked behind lockbox gambling and being an STF, reputation, or fleet grinder. Since I refuse to grind hard consistently, I stay just good enough to play the PvE content. It still surprises me Cryptic just desnt provide best gear at a price, and have Buy it Now prices, or play the lottery, or grind till your fingers fall off options as greedy as they are for every dollar.
I had a good time busting dinos last night first time playing it. Figured Id gear up 3 officers per toon and they hand off the gear to their shipmates when I wanted to take different officers from each ship through it. I enjoy showing off my well dressed Starfleet regulation looking officers in the content where we can have some boffs side by side with other captains and their boffs. You can always see who takes their Star Trek seriously by how Starfleet canon looking a crew is, or if they all dressed like Stars Wars, Babylon5, or WoW.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Obviously, because he couldn't possibly buy anything competitive with the EC he gets from a sale.
Pay To Win is when a game allows ANY mechanic to gain a competitive edge including shortening the time required for that individual to gain a competitive edge by allowing said player to pay for an actual item or means to discount the time or risk required to normally obtain the item.
Lets break this down, did he buy EC in a manner that lessened the time to normally obtain it? Can EC he bought be used to buy competitive items (like energy leech consoles?) ? Then it is pay-to-win. Can you find a fallacy with this logic?
like I said I still don't consider it pay to win, mostly because its how f2p economic models work in the first place, and because what he obtains is obtainable by anyone with the EC to start with. but that's also because I generally consider pay to win something that can only be obtained by spending money, and is unavailable through any other mechanic, but that's all personal opinion
Buying keys IS P2W, but P2W is actually a necessity in STO. If there were no P2W players, the rest of us couldn't even get a fleet modules off the exchange(as well as lock box / lobi ships) nor could we convert our Dil to Zen.
So while we put the negative spin on it, we really do need players that do P2W. Be it keys, modules or a straight Zen to Dil transfer.
Basically, what I am saying is that HE PAYS SO I CAN WIN.
I disagree. If everyone decided to boyc...(its a bad word on corporate forums..) the f2p system they would offer another way of earning in order to meet their bottom line. They would also promote the game more as well as fix it up much more than they have. Right now STO seems to be that golden goose for PWE -- while its laying the golden eggs, they pay it no mind and even neglect it to an extent, as soon as it stops, however, everyone from every sector of the company comes pouring in like ants to see what the problem is (I'm a sucker for analogies). I own my own business, and I've worked for IBM and know how this works -- business as usual until the pay stops :P
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
I guess that is why the F2P model is doing so well. There are evidently a lot of people who throw money around and can't be bothered to do any research. http://sto.perfectworld.com/about/features-matrix
Ex-CoH players, Please add the chat channel "CoX STO"
This is actually the part of the story I call BS on. Had he been here for three years, he would have been a paying subscriber at one point, thus he would not be subject to the EC cap.
Thats what threw me off too. I thought I had a few grandfathered perks still active. I even did all this selling on my main, the one with more bridge officers and a bigger storage bank my other toons dont have because I didnt care to purchase more boff or bank slots for my alts. My account was a paying subscriber for just under 400 days. So if you're telling me my main toon shouldnt have HAD a cap, now Im back to being ticked again! :mad:
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
*FACEPALM* not this p2w TRIBBLE again, despite what someone else defines as p2w it is technically p4advantage and not win, because unless what you are paying for is guaranteeing you to win each and every time only than can it truly be defined a p2w. As for all the p4a stuff it is what it is an advantage with no absolute guarantee of a win. :rolleyes: The only thing I know of that you can p2w is lobi from a lockbox and even that's pushing it.
like I said I still don't consider it pay to win, mostly because its how f2p economic models work in the first place, and because what he obtains is obtainable by anyone with the EC to start with. but that's also because I generally consider pay to win something that can only be obtained by spending money, and is unavailable through any other mechanic, but that's all personal opinion
Because you can also earn it as a free player does not exonerate the model from pay-to-win. Does it take you more time to earn items in-game than paying IRL money for it? If yes, then it IS pay to win because it falls under the time and risk factor being lessened or made non-existent.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
I once lost 10 million EC due to downgrading from paid sub and the Exchange automatically evaporated the EC when I logged-in but before I could purchase the cap removal. An intelligently designed system would not transfer the currency until the player retrieves it from the Exchange. But we ain't gonna have no 'telligins in this here game.
Chalk it all up to the simple fact that neither CBS nor PWE give a fat, furry rat's bottom about the health of the game and are short-sightedly focused just on today's total receipts.
like I said I still don't consider it pay to win, mostly because its how f2p economic models work in the first place, and because what he obtains is obtainable by anyone with the EC to start with. but that's also because I generally consider pay to win something that can only be obtained by spending money, and is unavailable through any other mechanic, but that's all personal opinion
Er nope, not all F2P models work that way. A good example would be Sony's EQ2 F2P model. There is nothing that they sell that can give the player a P2W advantage. Everything you can purchase with real money comes in the form of unlocking the gear you have won from your dungeon/raid, shiny transportation pets, and health/rez potions that come with a cooldown timer and are completely required had you brought a healer with you in the first place.
They make more money via micro transactions of item unlocks and expansion packs that Cryptic will ever make with their shiny new ship P2W model AND EQ2 is not P2W.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
NCSoft decided that while City of Heroes was still turning a profit, the F2P model making enough money and during a regularly scheduled Friday conference call told the CoH devs not to come in the following Monday because they were fired and the game was being shut down.
I know, it seems to be a double edged sword. From sheer observation it would seem, however, that most of the players in STO are "bling" oriented regardless whether that bling has stats or not. The mere fact that you would see a vesta running around with all 3 consoles or an oddesy running around with all three consoles seems to indicate that this observation may have some sustenance to it.
My suggestion would be to PWE is to move toward marketing the bling with no/little/gimmick stats while phasing out and purging the game of pay-to-win.
The problem with most F2P models isn't that it's free, its that the game has to be really gooood to compel a player to pay. STO has had how many awards (pure curiosity as I can't find any with a quick search)? This would seem that players are not playing because the game is awesome, they're playing for other reasons, and being that player that is likely playing for the very reason, I can state with certainty it is a love of Star Trek itself and being able to make my own Star Trek story to a degree.
Back to the problem -- these F2P MMO's seem to get the wrong idea that somehow not investing in doubling the content of the game and improving existing will not somehow incite more free players to pay, they instead resort to pay-to-win which has a dire effect: while some players participate and are content, other players are emotionally and adversely effected (they are defiant to a unsportsman-like model of equal and fair playing fields). This leads to "quits", while we pick on them and go "can I have your gear", the sad thing is, that's another inch of the tale this serpent just consumed. Look at CoH again -- from what I remember, and its been a while, they were already on that rocky road of people doing the "I quits!". The wiki article here really hits the nail on the head, the same nail I'm driving right now -- and that is, everyone has different sized wallets, while pay-2-winners can pay to win, they will be happy, but as new pay-to-win items are added and they feel they can no longer to pay-to-win on their budget, they will quit statistically speaking.
This goes back to the serpent analogy again -- for every inch the serpent consumes, sure, it feeds itself, it sustains itself, but there is a point in the very near future, where there is no more the serpent can consume or the heart of the serpent becomes consumed causing sudden death. It is this point, same that happened to CoH people sit back and go "WTH just happened!?!" -- the serpent ran out of his own self to consume -- that's what happened.
Er nope, not all F2P models work that way. A good example would be Sony's EQ2 F2P model. There is nothing that they sell that can give the player a P2W advantage. Everything you can purchase with real money comes in the form of unlocking the gear you have won from your dungeon/raid, shiny transportation pets, and health/rez potions that come with a cooldown timer and are completely required had you brought a healer with you in the first place.
They make more money via micro transactions of item unlocks and expansion packs that Cryptic will ever make with their shiny new ship P2W model AND EQ2 is not P2W.
They should have never given me (for free or a 8 hour time investment) a flying ice-dragon/drake to ride as a paladin :P Just say'n -- I have no reason to ever buy another mount in that game lol.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
I once lost 10 million EC due to downgrading from paid sub and the Exchange automatically evaporated the EC when I logged-in but before I could purchase the cap removal. An intelligently designed system would not transfer the currency until the player retrieves it from the Exchange. But we ain't gonna have no 'telligins in this here game.
Chalk it all up to the simple fact that neither CBS nor PWE give a fat, furry rat's bottom about the health of the game and are short-sightedly focused just on today's total receipts.
Amen to that
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Thats what threw me off too. I thought I had a few grandfathered perks still active. I even did all this selling on my main, the one with more bridge officers and a bigger storage bank my other toons dont have because I didnt care to purchase more boff or bank slots for my alts. My account was a paying subscriber for just under 400 days. So if you're telling me my main toon shouldnt have HAD a cap, now Im back to being ticked again! :mad:
As I recall it, if you were a paying subscriber with the game went F2P, things like the EC cap, which is account based, should have already been unlocked. If you were not a paid subscriber when it went F2P, you should not have received the unlock.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
I disagree. If everyone decided to boyc...(its a bad word on corporate forums..) the f2p system they would offer another way of earning in order to meet their bottom line. They would also promote the game more as well as fix it up much more than they have. Right now STO seems to be that golden goose for PWE -- while its laying the golden eggs, they pay it no mind and even neglect it to an extent, as soon as it stops, however, everyone from every sector of the company comes pouring in like ants to see what the problem is (I'm a sucker for analogies). I own my own business, and I've worked for IBM and know how this works -- business as usual until the pay stops :P
Well yeah, we can agree that this is a bad system, but we cannot disagree that this IS the current system. Trying to get the community to boycott Zen would be like asking your grandmother if you can rub her feet. It's not that you wouldn't rub them, but you are not going to freaking volunteer yourself to do it. :P
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Well yeah, we can agree that this is a bad system, but we cannot disagree that this IS the current system. Trying to get the community to boycott Zen would be like asking your grandmother if you can rub her feet. It's not that you wouldn't rub them, but you are not going to freaking volunteer yourself to do it. :P
I see what you did there :P
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
*FACEPALM* not this p2w TRIBBLE again, despite what someone else defines as p2w it is technically p4advantage and not win, because unless what you are paying for is guaranteeing you to win each and every time only than can it truly be defined a p2w. As for all the p4a stuff it is what it is an advantage with no absolute guarantee of a win. :rolleyes: The only thing I know of that you can p2w is lobi from a lockbox and even that's pushing it.
I already corrected defined it as You Pay So I Can Win. The Payee doesn't automatically become the Winner, but there will always be a Winner due to the Payee.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Er nope, not all F2P models work that way. A good example would be Sony's EQ2 F2P model. There is nothing that they sell that can give the player a P2W advantage. Everything you can purchase with real money comes in the form of unlocking the gear you have won from your dungeon/raid, shiny transportation pets, and health/rez potions that come with a cooldown timer and are completely required had you brought a healer with you in the first place.
They make more money via micro transactions of item unlocks and expansion packs that Cryptic will ever make with their shiny new ship P2W model AND EQ2 is not P2W.
perhaps i should say that slightly differently since you didn't quite get what I mean, f2p model use micro transactions to work, so their economies are generally riven by micro transactions with typically include things players can buy then sell to other players who don't spend cash, thus getting players that do spend to spend more.
I'd really just prefer a system closer to the one by Sony I described earlier. Micro transactions for things that do not effect game play (clothes /ship skins / toys) and paid expansions of the game that really expands the overall game field of STO.
The Current model equates to very very slow game field growth, of which it is mostly "go grind this" and press "f" here to finish mission.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
What I don't get, is why STO didn't follow SWTOR and have an escrow account. Basically you have your 10 mil, but anything over goes into a separate account you can't access, but once you fall under 10 mil, it refills up to ten mil till you don't have any left in the escrow.
Just saying 'no sorry you lose all those other EC' is asinine.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Actually, no. Its part of their FTP model.. I was cuious about it so I started up my second Cryptic accoun't a fiddled with it on that account.. You only have gold perks as long as you sub, the minute you revert to silver all the limitations kick in.. My suggestion.. Don't Sub.. buy LTS instead.. Bigger drop in the bucket, but you won't have to worry about reverting to silver.. ever.
As for my other account.. I use it to mess around with Champions Online as my main account is set for Sub on CO (Yes, I'd get LTS for that but I'm broke and have been awhile now, at least broke enough to not be able to drop 300$ at once). Makes me glad that on my main account I bought LTS 3-4 days before STO launched.
Fleet Admiral Nyte T'challa-United Federation of Planets-Task Force Draco-Tactical "No matter where you go, there you are." "I found a bug in Beta, Cryptic squished it. STO Founder and Proud LTS member."
I had about 1400 Zen left in my account. Decided I was just going to buy some keys and sell them on the Exchange. Bought a 10 pack of keys. Sold them at $1,789,999 each. As you know they sell faster than you can post them individually. I should have made about 17 million from that. I go to look at my balance AFTER they all sold. 10 million flat in my bank account. Wait WHAT! I guess I missed the memo where there was a 10 mil EC cap. Even for a former subscriber now Silver. WHERE WAS THE WARNING CRYPTIC! A pop up letting me know I had capped my account would have stopped me from rapid posting to the exchange. As each was selling within 15 seconds of posting. I understand WHY the cap is there, but can we not warn players with a popup their account maxed. Was only able to buy 3 mk XII Voth guns for each of my 4 Fed toons for Dino busting and a few armors and shields. My Romulan and Klink crews missed out because I wasnt warned I was flushing 7 million EC!
The thing is they want people to loose because that makes them more money and all they need to say is.
"The information is out there that bank caps exist and it is up to the player to understand that before they loose in game currency do to their own mistakes"
Sorry for your loss and I wish I could say more then that but, STO is a business and now that you understand that I can guarantee that you won't make that mistake again. Cryptic would also be somewhat sorry for your loss however they won't help you in any way to recover it because that is what is "best for business".
perhaps i should say that slightly differently since you didn't quite get what I mean, f2p model use micro transactions to work, so their economies are generally riven by micro transactions with typically include things players can buy then sell to other players who don't spend cash, thus getting players that do spend to spend more.
They don't have anything that works like that in their F2P model. You purchase things like clothing that has no stats and is locked to that character. Item unlockers used to unlock gear you have already won cannot be traded or sold to other players as well.
However, unless you are interested in raiding, there is no reason to purchase item unlockers at all due to a really high end player crafting system that yields gear that is better than what you find in most dungeons.
The point I was making is that there are F2P models that do not have ANY form of P2W in them. These games win via team work and strategy, not cash.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
The mere fact that you would see a vesta running around with all 3 consoles or an oddesy running around with all three consoles seems to indicate that this observation may have some sustenance to it.
The problem with most F2P models isn't that it's free, its that the game has to be really gooood to compel a player to pay. STO has had how many awards (pure curiosity as I can't find any with a quick search)? This would seem that players are not playing because the game is awesome, they're playing for other reasons, and being that player that is likely playing for the very reason, I can state with certainty it is a love of Star Trek itself and being able to make my own Star Trek story to a degree.
What, there are Vestas running around with all three of their 3 pack consoles AND an AMS console! No...never.....not over here.....
Yeah, Im JUST here for the Star Trek. Not to be a big shot in an MMO. This is my first and still only MMO. When STO went F2P, giving me the chance to play for free as I wait years and months for actual story content, I just laughed and said Ok. I kept subbing for a little while longer, but when it became clear story content was on their backburner all the time, I stopped subsidizing their laziness. They could have had much more money out of me being a subscriber all this time playing story content no longer than 2 months drought.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Comments
I'm still not sure id term selling keys bought with cash as pay to win. Pay to win implies that you have paid cash for a advantage in game play that sets you above other players who have not.
Al this did was accelerate how quickly he got EC, which he can then spend, but he cant buy anything with that EC anyone else couldn't buy.
Some of the Lobi stuff, that's closer to pay to win.
and personally I went years without hitting 10 mill, but I don't grind for EC, but I knew about the cap. plus bare in mind some people turn zone off, because lets be honest, some days its a cess pit.
that all being said fault still lies with a uninformed user since the information is out there and readily available, but we can point that out without being insulting about it.
as I said, expensive learning lesson, I'm sure we have all had some in games or real life.
Obviously, because he couldn't possibly buy anything competitive with the EC he gets from a sale.
Pay To Win is when a game allows ANY mechanic to gain a competitive edge including shortening the time required for that individual to gain a competitive edge by allowing said player to pay for an actual item or means to discount the time or risk required to normally obtain the item.
Lets break this down, did he buy EC in a manner that lessened the time to normally obtain it? Can EC he bought be used to buy competitive items (like energy leech consoles?) ? Then it is pay-to-win. Can you find a fallacy with this logic?
So while we put the negative spin on it, we really do need players that do P2W. Be it keys, modules or a straight Zen to Dil transfer.
Basically, what I am saying is that HE PAYS SO I CAN WIN.
Recall that your EC balance shows in the bottom left of your Exchange screen. You said the keys were selling within 15 seconds which means your EC balance was essentially updating in real time.
Cryptic was informing you in real time what your balance was doing, besides the well-posted and often-discussed EC cap limit and the frequent recommendations to spend 500 Zen to remove that limit.
I have to say it - you were simply not paying attention to the information they provide.
I'd hate to play a game that pops up a warning every time someone does anything, because someone somewhere felt that they need bright flashing lights to make them pay attention to what they are doing, or learn about things before they do them.
I get enough of that in the real world.
(Not saying this to be harsh or critical, just the point that the info was there, you missed it, lesson learned, please holler at Cryptic to fix REAL issues not player errors)
Force
I had a good time busting dinos last night first time playing it. Figured Id gear up 3 officers per toon and they hand off the gear to their shipmates when I wanted to take different officers from each ship through it. I enjoy showing off my well dressed Starfleet regulation looking officers in the content where we can have some boffs side by side with other captains and their boffs. You can always see who takes their Star Trek seriously by how Starfleet canon looking a crew is, or if they all dressed like Stars Wars, Babylon5, or WoW.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
like I said I still don't consider it pay to win, mostly because its how f2p economic models work in the first place, and because what he obtains is obtainable by anyone with the EC to start with. but that's also because I generally consider pay to win something that can only be obtained by spending money, and is unavailable through any other mechanic, but that's all personal opinion
I disagree. If everyone decided to boyc...(its a bad word on corporate forums..) the f2p system they would offer another way of earning in order to meet their bottom line. They would also promote the game more as well as fix it up much more than they have. Right now STO seems to be that golden goose for PWE -- while its laying the golden eggs, they pay it no mind and even neglect it to an extent, as soon as it stops, however, everyone from every sector of the company comes pouring in like ants to see what the problem is (I'm a sucker for analogies). I own my own business, and I've worked for IBM and know how this works -- business as usual until the pay stops :P
In this thread the OP is a long term Gold subscriber who wants a pro-rated LTS.
Or this poster who bought some zen and has no idea on what to spend it on:http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=917831
I guess that is why the F2P model is doing so well. There are evidently a lot of people who throw money around and can't be bothered to do any research. http://sto.perfectworld.com/about/features-matrix
Ex-CoH players, Please add the chat channel "CoX STO"
Thats what threw me off too. I thought I had a few grandfathered perks still active. I even did all this selling on my main, the one with more bridge officers and a bigger storage bank my other toons dont have because I didnt care to purchase more boff or bank slots for my alts. My account was a paying subscriber for just under 400 days. So if you're telling me my main toon shouldnt have HAD a cap, now Im back to being ticked again! :mad:
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Because you can also earn it as a free player does not exonerate the model from pay-to-win. Does it take you more time to earn items in-game than paying IRL money for it? If yes, then it IS pay to win because it falls under the time and risk factor being lessened or made non-existent.
Chalk it all up to the simple fact that neither CBS nor PWE give a fat, furry rat's bottom about the health of the game and are short-sightedly focused just on today's total receipts.
Er nope, not all F2P models work that way. A good example would be Sony's EQ2 F2P model. There is nothing that they sell that can give the player a P2W advantage. Everything you can purchase with real money comes in the form of unlocking the gear you have won from your dungeon/raid, shiny transportation pets, and health/rez potions that come with a cooldown timer and are completely required had you brought a healer with you in the first place.
They make more money via micro transactions of item unlocks and expansion packs that Cryptic will ever make with their shiny new ship P2W model AND EQ2 is not P2W.
I know, it seems to be a double edged sword. From sheer observation it would seem, however, that most of the players in STO are "bling" oriented regardless whether that bling has stats or not. The mere fact that you would see a vesta running around with all 3 consoles or an oddesy running around with all three consoles seems to indicate that this observation may have some sustenance to it.
My suggestion would be to PWE is to move toward marketing the bling with no/little/gimmick stats while phasing out and purging the game of pay-to-win.
The problem with most F2P models isn't that it's free, its that the game has to be really gooood to compel a player to pay. STO has had how many awards (pure curiosity as I can't find any with a quick search)? This would seem that players are not playing because the game is awesome, they're playing for other reasons, and being that player that is likely playing for the very reason, I can state with certainty it is a love of Star Trek itself and being able to make my own Star Trek story to a degree.
Back to the problem -- these F2P MMO's seem to get the wrong idea that somehow not investing in doubling the content of the game and improving existing will not somehow incite more free players to pay, they instead resort to pay-to-win which has a dire effect: while some players participate and are content, other players are emotionally and adversely effected (they are defiant to a unsportsman-like model of equal and fair playing fields). This leads to "quits", while we pick on them and go "can I have your gear", the sad thing is, that's another inch of the tale this serpent just consumed. Look at CoH again -- from what I remember, and its been a while, they were already on that rocky road of people doing the "I quits!". The wiki article here really hits the nail on the head, the same nail I'm driving right now -- and that is, everyone has different sized wallets, while pay-2-winners can pay to win, they will be happy, but as new pay-to-win items are added and they feel they can no longer to pay-to-win on their budget, they will quit statistically speaking.
This goes back to the serpent analogy again -- for every inch the serpent consumes, sure, it feeds itself, it sustains itself, but there is a point in the very near future, where there is no more the serpent can consume or the heart of the serpent becomes consumed causing sudden death. It is this point, same that happened to CoH people sit back and go "WTH just happened!?!" -- the serpent ran out of his own self to consume -- that's what happened.
They should have never given me (for free or a 8 hour time investment) a flying ice-dragon/drake to ride as a paladin :P Just say'n -- I have no reason to ever buy another mount in that game lol.
Amen to that
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Looking for a dedicated Star Trek community? Visit www.ufplanets.com for details.
As I recall it, if you were a paying subscriber with the game went F2P, things like the EC cap, which is account based, should have already been unlocked. If you were not a paid subscriber when it went F2P, you should not have received the unlock.
Well yeah, we can agree that this is a bad system, but we cannot disagree that this IS the current system. Trying to get the community to boycott Zen would be like asking your grandmother if you can rub her feet. It's not that you wouldn't rub them, but you are not going to freaking volunteer yourself to do it. :P
I see what you did there :P
I already corrected defined it as You Pay So I Can Win. The Payee doesn't automatically become the Winner, but there will always be a Winner due to the Payee.
perhaps i should say that slightly differently since you didn't quite get what I mean, f2p model use micro transactions to work, so their economies are generally riven by micro transactions with typically include things players can buy then sell to other players who don't spend cash, thus getting players that do spend to spend more.
I'd really just prefer a system closer to the one by Sony I described earlier. Micro transactions for things that do not effect game play (clothes /ship skins / toys) and paid expansions of the game that really expands the overall game field of STO.
The Current model equates to very very slow game field growth, of which it is mostly "go grind this" and press "f" here to finish mission.
Just saying 'no sorry you lose all those other EC' is asinine.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
As for my other account.. I use it to mess around with Champions Online as my main account is set for Sub on CO (Yes, I'd get LTS for that but I'm broke and have been awhile now, at least broke enough to not be able to drop 300$ at once). Makes me glad that on my main account I bought LTS 3-4 days before STO launched.
"No matter where you go, there you are."
"I found a bug in Beta, Cryptic squished it. STO Founder and Proud LTS member."
The thing is they want people to loose because that makes them more money and all they need to say is.
"The information is out there that bank caps exist and it is up to the player to understand that before they loose in game currency do to their own mistakes"
Sorry for your loss and I wish I could say more then that but, STO is a business and now that you understand that I can guarantee that you won't make that mistake again. Cryptic would also be somewhat sorry for your loss however they won't help you in any way to recover it because that is what is "best for business".
They don't have anything that works like that in their F2P model. You purchase things like clothing that has no stats and is locked to that character. Item unlockers used to unlock gear you have already won cannot be traded or sold to other players as well.
However, unless you are interested in raiding, there is no reason to purchase item unlockers at all due to a really high end player crafting system that yields gear that is better than what you find in most dungeons.
The point I was making is that there are F2P models that do not have ANY form of P2W in them. These games win via team work and strategy, not cash.
What, there are Vestas running around with all three of their 3 pack consoles AND an AMS console! No...never.....not over here.....
Yeah, Im JUST here for the Star Trek. Not to be a big shot in an MMO. This is my first and still only MMO. When STO went F2P, giving me the chance to play for free as I wait years and months for actual story content, I just laughed and said Ok. I kept subbing for a little while longer, but when it became clear story content was on their backburner all the time, I stopped subsidizing their laziness. They could have had much more money out of me being a subscriber all this time playing story content no longer than 2 months drought.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader