Kinda straying form the discussion, but does anyone else feel like this class should be called the 'Sentinal' class and the old Avenger class should keep its name? Seems wierd to take a ship thats been in the game for 3 years should have its name stripped away and given to anew C-Store ship and get renamed. Surely the new ship should be renamed? I'm really hoping that this isn't a case of Cryptic forgetting they already had an Avenger class ingame and changing the old one after the community pointed it out....
On another note, I always thought the Avenger class should of been a Miranda class skin since it was the original name for the class before the Miranda name caught on.
Kinda straying form the discussion, but does anyone else feel like this class should be called the 'Sentinal' class and the old Avenger class should keep its name? Seems wierd to take a ship thats been in the game for 3 years should have its name stripped away and given to anew C-Store ship and get renamed. Surely the new ship should be renamed? I'm really hoping that this isn't a case of Cryptic forgetting they already had an Avenger class ingame and changing the old one after the community pointed it out....
Yeah but "Avenger" is much more closer to "Vengeance". Which is so blatantly obvious that this ship is desparately trying to be. I mean, look at her design, look at all the spikes and angles and then look at the name.
It's just another J.J. knockoff, much like the Tal'Shiar mini Naradas.
Yeah but "Avenger" is much more closer to "Vengeance". Which is so blatantly obvious that this ship is desparately trying to be. I mean, look at her design, look at all the spikes and angles and then look at the name.
It's just another J.J. knockoff, much like the Tal'Shiar mini Naradas.
If u look a this Fed ''Battle'' Cruiser more closely, it's is obviously design by Tom Paris himself... i guess though he fail making the Delta Flyer into a ''Hot Rod'' it did not stop him 30+ years later to design a ship with Fins.
It is true that Starfleet was founded to explore space but since the first days of the NX-01 it was clear that their ships also need the firepower to defend themselves.
Starfleet ships have been proven to be second to none when it comes down to weapons power otherwise they would be easy targets for everyone.
In times of enemies like the Borg, Breen, Dominion... it is just clear that Starfleet has to do something to keep at eye level, it started with the Galaxy class and it's battle section, later the Defiant class than the Sovereign class and than the Prometheus class.
This. If bigger were better, the navies of the world would be building nothing but supercarriers and battleships. But there are no battleships left on active duty in the entire world, and only 29 active duty aircraft carriers, more than half of which are so small they require vertical landing. The majority of naval ships are not large.
Star Trek is a concept from the 1960's when super carriers were just coming into being. Where Nuclear bombs were averaging in the 10-15 megaton range - ie to vaporize the area the size of LA - not but level it.
The problem now is that in our day and age - everything thing is moving toward the nano world - even the idea that a space ship needs crew AT ALL is being debated as robots and computers take over.
The latest and greatest US navy Frigate and destroyers being built right now have a few as 1/3 the crew of ship they are replacing of the EXACT same size - due to all the automation.
Warships that are being built for battle don't need crew and even armies don't need mass amount of soldiers as drones/missles/robots/computer viruses are doing more and more of the killing. Soldiers or "technicials" can be hundreds or thousnads of miles away.
Most military ops are now carried out by smaller highly trained units and not mass armies.
Star Trek in everything except a "concept" of what society could be like is technically still stuck in the midset over a HALF century ago. Even the tech they were to have in the future mostly came to pass within decades of when star trek started.
Heck they can even teleport things today - while it is just photons of light - they can destroy it here and recreate it hundreds of feet away.
They are by most estimate only a few decades away from people having a personal replicator in their homes with advances in 3D printing.
Think it might be a nice ship but without screen shots from different angles and a clue as to what the stations n consoles are gonna be not gonna get to excited.
Would have them rather fixxed up the Galaxy and given the G-X a fleet version then have them bring out a new ship. Would like to see them do as they were talking about and add new functions to Science and Cruisers to make them alittle better classes compared to the escorts that are all dps in a game that seems more and more to be almost completely focusing on dps and getting everything done in a time limit instead of adding objectives that tanks, healers, and crowd control ships would be good for.
The Gal-X has been obsolete for a long time. Its a non-fleet tier ship.
Cloaking Starfleet Cruiser that can use Dual Cannons is not obsolete it. It can do things no other Starfleet cruiser can do. Giving this new cruiser a Cloak helps to make the Galaxy X obsolete because it will no longer be the only Starfleet Cruiser that can cloak. We will see if their is other things with this new Cruiser that makes the Galaxy X lose uniqueness among Starfleet Cruisers. The Galaxy X might still remain unique in using Dual Cannons and if it is then it won't be totally obsolete.
The Defiant and Prometheus classes are the only true battleships ever concieved and canonically both never were produced in mass, though the Defiant was more of an interceptor and the Prometheus a light cruiser
They actually did start to mass produce the Defiant class, and the Prometheus class was a prototype ship, you start build more when you fixed all the bugs.
i dont like the ship. the hull part and the necelles look good, yet very familiar. but the sto-designers dont have a cle how to design a "whole" ship. the soucer looks horribly "standard frontward egg shape" i personally would love to see some NEW design directions on fedships. not just new kitbashes. it looks like a aventine/regent hybrid kitbash. i hate kitbashes.
indeed, i do. nebula-galaxy. then those ent ship and the akira, which is basically a turned upward ent, or vice versa. i like the gladius design, it was new, it was "complete". i like it when they redo common designs like the venture-galaxy variant. but we already really have the aventine class types. now they kitbash a pylon from regent, with the back of the aventine and the saucer of the aventine variant?!
i just dont like this egg-shaped saucer on every ship around. its totally UNFITTING for the rest of the ships egdy design. you dont make a block-like-design and then just "round it up" with the soucer beeing completely lacking any "blockyness". somehow they should do sth with the back-engine part of that saurcer to be more edgy. the front should not be egground. should be more like ... hm a clear trapezlike. with a partet middle section. it just doesnt fit together.
i really hate the saucer. i cant say it any stronger. ;-)
Having took a second look at the ship, it looks like there's a gap between the saucer and the secondary hull. I'm guessing it'll be more like a Odyssey-Regent hybrid in appearance than a Vesta-Regent, with a dual neck.
Here's something to blow your mind: What if it didn't come with any special consoles of it's own, but could use any of the T5 cruiser ship consoles making it the ultimate cruiser...
BOOM.
:cool::D
Of course you'd have to own the ships the consoles come from, but...
Yes, exactly! That's where i was going. Cryptic would make sales off even "obsolete" cruisers if this was true - people would by old cruisers just for the consoles.
Well, as for me though, I'm excited because I already have the cloaking console from my Defiant AND I have the Regent. All I would have to work for is the saucer separation IF this is true.
__________________________________________________
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
Even if they did give the Avenger such an odd feature, how many consoles would that actually work for? The various separation consoles, the MVAE console, and the Aquarius console are all dependent on ship model geometry, so they'd be out. The Kumari's wing cannons depend on a specific weapon thats part of the ship model. Already have the cloaking device. All that leaves is the Armitage torpedo PDS, the Intrepid ablative armor, the Regent TRIBBLE console, the Odyssey work bees, and the Vesta stuff. None of those are much for getting excited over, so even if you could, why would you?
Even if they did give the Avenger such an odd feature, how many consoles would that actually work for? The various separation consoles, the MVAE console, and the Aquarius console are all dependent on ship model geometry, so they'd be out. The Kumari's wing cannons depend on a specific weapon thats part of the ship model. Already have the cloaking device. All that leaves is the Armitage torpedo PDS, the Intrepid ablative armor, the Regent TRIBBLE console, the Odyssey work bees, and the Vesta stuff. None of those are much for getting excited over, so even if you could, why would you?
Hey! The Vesta stuff is damn useful!
But yeah, I can't see the devs ever doing this. Too many things that plain don't work, others that aren't very effective. Not worth troubling over.
If the Avenger isn't going to be a 3-pack, I don't see it more than getting a cloak, a possible special weapon, and maybe that second warp core when it comes to gimmicks. As for stats, unless they pulled off a BoP BO layout (which would infuriate many), I can't see the BO layout being anything we haven't seen before. Same goes for hull, turning, shields, etc.
If it turned out to be a 2-pack (a lower ranked ship and a T5), I can see them making a set out of consoles/weapons, but I'm not sure that the Avenger really lends itself to a 2-pack, unless we were talking about the supposed Fearless class that the Avenger was based on, in which case it makes sense. Depending on the stats of both, it may be worth picking up for another mid-tier choice when creating a new Fed character.
Taking a look at the little text there is on the Avenger and Fearless, I could see there being some space for some Universal BOff slots, as the Fearless design was meant to be modular. However, being so modular, I would wonder why the devs wouldn't make it a 3-pack instead. The presence of a Fleet version, however, seems to indicate a single or at most 2-pack (a la refit + retrofit + fleet options).
Even if they did give the Avenger such an odd feature, how many consoles would that actually work for? The various separation consoles, the MVAE console, and the Aquarius console are all dependent on ship model geometry, so they'd be out. The Kumari's wing cannons depend on a specific weapon thats part of the ship model. Already have the cloaking device. All that leaves is the Armitage torpedo PDS, the Intrepid ablative armor, the Regent TRIBBLE console, the Odyssey work bees, and the Vesta stuff. None of those are much for getting excited over, so even if you could, why would you?
People seem to be missing that I said t5 CRUISER consoles, not ANY t5 console. And yeah, the Aquarius console is not going to work (for that matter any of the consoles that rely on specific geometry.)
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Well, yea that's true that not all of the consoles on cruisers particularly shine too brightly at first glance. However, I'm definitely interested in the cloaking aspect. However, IF it has some sort of saucer separation, it would be the best news for me since SS means that the ship gets a better turn rate - it would work very well for the cannons (assuming it's not the side cannons i hear about). I know how to make a cruiser turn well, and a boost with the SS is most welcome.
In any case, I do know that they will have to do new designs for the artwork for things like Saucer Separation, but it's not impossible. Always hoping for the best. :P
Don't get me wrong though - I am still going to be looking at the BOff stations more than anything. The one thing that tripped me about the Regent was there was a lack of viable BOff variations (Universal Lt.) due to the fact that is was taken from the wrong station. More than anything, the BOff layout is going to be the deciding factor whether I get this ship or not - anything on top of that is just icing on the cake.
__________________________________________________
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
For me ther are two thing deciding if i am going to buy that thing or not.
First: the looks.
Depends, really.
If has roughly the same relations as the Excelsior, Sovereign or Odyssey i will never buy it, especially if it hasn't any alternative parts.
Another thing would be a too angular look in general, i hate that on a Starfleet ship.
In my opinion it needs to be a good balanced ship design altogether, so it's more a matter of feeling a design has to catch. (sadly, cryptics designers often seem to lack the ability to create good looking starfleet ships.)
Second: playstyle.
If it's too nimble (more than 14) and uses DHC+cloak, it's just an oversized escort and not a Battleship IMO.
Heck, i even don't use my Moebius destroyer or Vesta ships i bought anymore, because i find it just annoying to fly such a ship.
I would hate to spend any money on a ship like that.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Comments
On another note, I always thought the Avenger class should of been a Miranda class skin since it was the original name for the class before the Miranda name caught on.
Yeah but "Avenger" is much more closer to "Vengeance". Which is so blatantly obvious that this ship is desparately trying to be. I mean, look at her design, look at all the spikes and angles and then look at the name.
It's just another J.J. knockoff, much like the Tal'Shiar mini Naradas.
If u look a this Fed ''Battle'' Cruiser more closely, it's is obviously design by Tom Paris himself... i guess though he fail making the Delta Flyer into a ''Hot Rod'' it did not stop him 30+ years later to design a ship with Fins.
Starfleet ships have been proven to be second to none when it comes down to weapons power otherwise they would be easy targets for everyone.
In times of enemies like the Borg, Breen, Dominion... it is just clear that Starfleet has to do something to keep at eye level, it started with the Galaxy class and it's battle section, later the Defiant class than the Sovereign class and than the Prometheus class.
Star Trek is a concept from the 1960's when super carriers were just coming into being. Where Nuclear bombs were averaging in the 10-15 megaton range - ie to vaporize the area the size of LA - not but level it.
The problem now is that in our day and age - everything thing is moving toward the nano world - even the idea that a space ship needs crew AT ALL is being debated as robots and computers take over.
The latest and greatest US navy Frigate and destroyers being built right now have a few as 1/3 the crew of ship they are replacing of the EXACT same size - due to all the automation.
Warships that are being built for battle don't need crew and even armies don't need mass amount of soldiers as drones/missles/robots/computer viruses are doing more and more of the killing. Soldiers or "technicials" can be hundreds or thousnads of miles away.
Most military ops are now carried out by smaller highly trained units and not mass armies.
Star Trek in everything except a "concept" of what society could be like is technically still stuck in the midset over a HALF century ago. Even the tech they were to have in the future mostly came to pass within decades of when star trek started.
Heck they can even teleport things today - while it is just photons of light - they can destroy it here and recreate it hundreds of feet away.
They are by most estimate only a few decades away from people having a personal replicator in their homes with advances in 3D printing.
Here is one of my favorite Physicist: Michio Kaku
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN-FU8VPoOc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT1vxEpE1aI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcivmBojzVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzgVWpa4fzU
Starfleet *IS* military. And just like UN it's main priority is to uphold peace.
Would have them rather fixxed up the Galaxy and given the G-X a fleet version then have them bring out a new ship. Would like to see them do as they were talking about and add new functions to Science and Cruisers to make them alittle better classes compared to the escorts that are all dps in a game that seems more and more to be almost completely focusing on dps and getting everything done in a time limit instead of adding objectives that tanks, healers, and crowd control ships would be good for.
Cloaking Starfleet Cruiser that can use Dual Cannons is not obsolete it. It can do things no other Starfleet cruiser can do. Giving this new cruiser a Cloak helps to make the Galaxy X obsolete because it will no longer be the only Starfleet Cruiser that can cloak. We will see if their is other things with this new Cruiser that makes the Galaxy X lose uniqueness among Starfleet Cruisers. The Galaxy X might still remain unique in using Dual Cannons and if it is then it won't be totally obsolete.
9 or 10 turn rate
43k hull
Cmdr Tactical
Uni Lt Cmdr
Lt Science
Lt Eng
Uni Ensign
1.2 shield mod
other than that what would be the diference from the Excel or the Regent?
They actually did start to mass produce the Defiant class, and the Prometheus class was a prototype ship, you start build more when you fixed all the bugs.
i just dont like this egg-shaped saucer on every ship around. its totally UNFITTING for the rest of the ships egdy design. you dont make a block-like-design and then just "round it up" with the soucer beeing completely lacking any "blockyness". somehow they should do sth with the back-engine part of that saurcer to be more edgy. the front should not be egground. should be more like ... hm a clear trapezlike. with a partet middle section. it just doesnt fit together.
i really hate the saucer. i cant say it any stronger. ;-)
And yes, I really don't like spade saucers
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Uhm....the cloak and ability to mount DHC maybe?
What do you mean "if"???
Going off some tooltips on tribble isn't really conclusive. We don't even know if this is "the" federation battle cruiser yet.
rofl ok make me fly escort then
Yes, exactly! That's where i was going. Cryptic would make sales off even "obsolete" cruisers if this was true - people would by old cruisers just for the consoles.
Well, as for me though, I'm excited because I already have the cloaking console from my Defiant AND I have the Regent. All I would have to work for is the saucer separation IF this is true.
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
Even if they did give the Avenger such an odd feature, how many consoles would that actually work for? The various separation consoles, the MVAE console, and the Aquarius console are all dependent on ship model geometry, so they'd be out. The Kumari's wing cannons depend on a specific weapon thats part of the ship model. Already have the cloaking device. All that leaves is the Armitage torpedo PDS, the Intrepid ablative armor, the Regent TRIBBLE console, the Odyssey work bees, and the Vesta stuff. None of those are much for getting excited over, so even if you could, why would you?
Hey! The Vesta stuff is damn useful!
But yeah, I can't see the devs ever doing this. Too many things that plain don't work, others that aren't very effective. Not worth troubling over.
If the Avenger isn't going to be a 3-pack, I don't see it more than getting a cloak, a possible special weapon, and maybe that second warp core when it comes to gimmicks. As for stats, unless they pulled off a BoP BO layout (which would infuriate many), I can't see the BO layout being anything we haven't seen before. Same goes for hull, turning, shields, etc.
If it turned out to be a 2-pack (a lower ranked ship and a T5), I can see them making a set out of consoles/weapons, but I'm not sure that the Avenger really lends itself to a 2-pack, unless we were talking about the supposed Fearless class that the Avenger was based on, in which case it makes sense. Depending on the stats of both, it may be worth picking up for another mid-tier choice when creating a new Fed character.
Taking a look at the little text there is on the Avenger and Fearless, I could see there being some space for some Universal BOff slots, as the Fearless design was meant to be modular. However, being so modular, I would wonder why the devs wouldn't make it a 3-pack instead. The presence of a Fleet version, however, seems to indicate a single or at most 2-pack (a la refit + retrofit + fleet options).
People seem to be missing that I said t5 CRUISER consoles, not ANY t5 console. And yeah, the Aquarius console is not going to work (for that matter any of the consoles that rely on specific geometry.)
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
As for the special weapon... either a broadside cannon or a heavy beam array is my guess. Hopefully the latter.
In any case, I do know that they will have to do new designs for the artwork for things like Saucer Separation, but it's not impossible. Always hoping for the best. :P
Don't get me wrong though - I am still going to be looking at the BOff stations more than anything. The one thing that tripped me about the Regent was there was a lack of viable BOff variations (Universal Lt.) due to the fact that is was taken from the wrong station. More than anything, the BOff layout is going to be the deciding factor whether I get this ship or not - anything on top of that is just icing on the cake.
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
First: the looks.
Depends, really.
If has roughly the same relations as the Excelsior, Sovereign or Odyssey i will never buy it, especially if it hasn't any alternative parts.
Another thing would be a too angular look in general, i hate that on a Starfleet ship.
In my opinion it needs to be a good balanced ship design altogether, so it's more a matter of feeling a design has to catch. (sadly, cryptics designers often seem to lack the ability to create good looking starfleet ships.)
Second: playstyle.
If it's too nimble (more than 14) and uses DHC+cloak, it's just an oversized escort and not a Battleship IMO.
Heck, i even don't use my Moebius destroyer or Vesta ships i bought anymore, because i find it just annoying to fly such a ship.
I would hate to spend any money on a ship like that.