The Romulans decided at one point to close their borders and never shown up again until TNG time, the D'deridex was a ship the Federation never seen until TNG because of that.
Likewise there never was a Cardassian War or rather, this was the "war".
In short, you people keep trying to pass off the Galaxy as a uber warship when in fact it was a ship designed for exploration, DS9 made a lot of TRIBBLE and fact is, if there was a actual Federation-Cardassian War there would not been a Dominion War because the Cardassian union would had lost, HARD.
I'm not going to dispute your notions towards the Galaxy, but I think you should clarify what you mean that there was never a 'Cardassian War'. In their very first appearance, a war between the Federation and Cardassians was mentioned, and so were treaty negotiations. In said episode, a Starfleet Admiral tells Picard in no uncertain terms that he must do everything to accomodate the Cardassians because the Federation can't afford getting involved in a new round of hostilities at that moment. (possibly due to the losses sustained by the Borg attack a few months prior to this episode)
asserting that a pt boat defiant or a smaller cruiser like the sov is more "combat efficient" isnt a fact, its conjecture that flies in the face of anything you will get in any kind of engineering.
It's based off of real military and engineering principles and given information about the ships. Bigger isn't always better, and size is determined based on the requirements for the equipment and expected mission profile.
The Defiant was designed with combat in mind, around using a relatively oversized phaser cannon array and with more advanced armor than less-focused vessels, cutting out on-board holodecks, expansive quarters, astrometrics labs, and the like... volume-wise, of course it's more efficient for combat than a massive cruiser. That doesn't mean that it is more capable than the Galaxy on its own (though many may argue that it is), it means that if you piled up an equivalent mass of Defiants to a Galaxy, you should expect that the Galaxy would lose in a straight-up fight.
The Sovereign, similarly, uses a warp core of similar size to the Galaxy (both are ~12 decks high in their respective MSDs) while paring down (but not completely removing) on nonessential functions such as family quarters, but also increasing the number of torpedo launchers (and phaser arrays, but that seems mostly for coverage purposes, and neither ship seems to frequently use all of its weapons at once) and the relative size of the impulse engines. In a one-on-one confrontation, the Sovereign should be expected to at least match the Galaxy, despite the lower mass.
This isn't to say the Galaxy is incapable, it's that it's not designed as strongly for combat as the Defiant and Sovereign are. Could the Galaxy be refit into a weaponized behemoth that outfights any other TNG-era Starfleet vessel? Probably. Was such a refit done during the Dominion War? I don't think so, actually. An extensive redesign and refit to swap out noncombat systems would have taxed a Starfleet that apparently cobbled together whatever other combat-ready designs that were available. Riker apparently decided that the additional power that could be pulled from the impulse engines was useful, which could have been affirmed by other Starfleet commanders, and a refit to increase the ship's security complement (by way of converting civilian living space to barracks) would likely be easier to implement while also serving a combat purpose (additional crew redundancies, defense against boarding parties, assistance with troop transport for major ground action, etc.).
space ships have to deal with heat dissipation(thats a fact), the saucer would be perfect for that in a way the pt boat defiant never could(pretty self evident). not to mention that you can have much higher capacity power systems & infrastructure arranged in a way that is more power efficient than space efficient on a larger ship.
Normal radiative dissipation is totally inadequate for the kind of power output that an M/AM core would be used for. It's obviously not a design concern for most Starfleet ships anyway since none of them have radiator arrays.
A larger ship would likely lose more power to inefficiency than a smaller ship due to size (power losses within the lines). The power benefit of a larger ship would be the size of the warp core and auxiliary power systems it can carry, not any efficiency concern.
and since the ships use "electro-plasma" systems, rather than wiring to transfer power, the typical resistance calcs go out the window and look more like a water mains, which means, science says, bigger plasma flow = more power flow.
so bigger ship = more powerful due to higher capacity.
...Except that wiring already is analogous to water flow. It's not a perfect analogy, but then neither is an incompressible liquid a perfect analogy to high-energy plasma.
The Federation has also, more than once, built ships with an increased emphasis on combat power. They dance around the terminology on the matter, but all that really accomplishes is giving ammunition to the many enemies that accuse the Federation of hypocrisy.
And no matter how much the emphasis shifts towards combat, the ship doesn't lose the Starfleet ideals. The Defiant showed that even when a ship is basically guns on an engine, it's still capable of applying its sensors and computers towards exploration and research. They didn't have enough bathrooms to go around, but they still studied anomalies, surveyed worlds, and solved scientific mysteries with the best of them.
Indeed. This is important to remember.
The simple fact of the matter is that Gene Roddenberry got more and more into philosophical tangents with his storytelling as the years went by, and with that he wanted to essentially nerfbat everything. He was going to sue Paramount over the scene in Star Trek 6 where a military rescue of Kirk was planned (and soundly rejected), and he designed the phasers in TNG to look as little like guns as possible (and I believe he actually wanted there to be no phasers carried by Starfleet at all in TNG), just as a couple of examples.
Considering how much the fans like to debate the combat capabilities of ships and their crew, I doubt many agreed with this approach to the series. It is easy to lose the fact that many ships are quite capable of executing both roles. This is probably something that is common in both KDF and Romulan fleets, as well, from a practical standpoint. Especially the KDF, with their heavy emphasis on the military, would probably consider generalized research a secondary priority, so most of their science ships probably HAVE to pull double duty, and perform well in both roles.
I think If the Defiant and Gladius had a love child that then went on to have a lovechild with the Vesta and the Vesta had the dominant genes.... this is probably close to what we'd get. (Gladius nacelles and those round bits behind the docking bay look Defiant-ish.)
I can guess from looking at it, that the designer took some influence from the USS Vengeance in ST:Into Darkness. The cuboid shape shape of the nacelles and then lower down on the side of secondary hull in front of the pylons toward the deflector is a bit protruding out similar to the appearance of the Vengeance. Also the name being similar, Avenger - Vengeance, is maybe making me think too much about this.
That's once again just another ugly "military bad TRIBBLE" kitbash. What a dissapointment. But well, what did I expect?
Regarding Starfleet and war - the simple truth is that "Explorer type" vessels are the biggest and sturdiest designs Starfleet build. An in respect of their originally peaceful mantra, those "Explorers" ARE the ships that fight their wars. Is it SO HARD to believe that they don't need/build battle/war/tactical ships, because those "Explorers" can be easily refitted for fighting wars - hell, the federation fought so many wars and still prevailed. Without cloaks, without battlecruisers. Starfleets vessels are designed to END wars. And after that they resume their usual duty. There is nothing wrong with the Sovereign which is Starfleets most advanced heavy cruiser being tactically more capable but that doesn't make it a battlecruiser. The Galaxy Class can be refitted to be a floating weapons platform, yet it is no battlecruiser. The Defiant and Prometheus classes are the only true battleships ever concieved and canonically both never were produced in mass, though the Defiant was more of an interceptor and the Prometheus a light cruiser.
I think people are just turned off by the terminology. They cannot understand that Starfleet, per se, is not a military and that they use their "Explorers", which means their heaviest class of ships, to fight. And they do so while wearing colourfull uniforms. Just eat it, that's Star Trek. If it's not cool enough for you go somewhere else. Damn
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
IF a Galaxy's saucer could reliably land and take off without damage - which is hinted at in the tech manual, but called infeasible - it would be a magnificent way to land troops. That being said, the Galaxy class would still probably be the Federation's premiere troop transport. Three shuttlebays, all of her transporter rooms, fairly heavy shields and armor, decent firepower.
With all of it's saucer space devoted to barracks, supplies, and weaponry instead of schools and science labs, I wouldn't be surprised at all if each Galaxy class could field ten thousand ground troops.
Back to the Avenger - the Federation is at war with the Borg, possibly the Iconians, and soon the Voth. Battle Cruisers are needed - and something on the Avenger's scale could probably be very easily geared for Exploration if the wars end. I don't cound the KDF being at war with the Federation because of: 1, Task force Omega, and 2, all new KDF enemy mobs on the Fed side being referred to as Klingon Rebels. While the Federation and KDF might still be at a cold war with each other, I haven't seen evidence of a Fed/KDF war in well over a year.
Right now beams/bfaw is the highest DPS for the majority of PvE content.
You can put out 20k+ DPS on STFs with Fleet Sovy, Excel, Ody builds, etc.
So I'm kind of curious, what is the Fed Cruiser problem in PvE?
There isn't one, except on this forum and in Zone chat, where people with thick skulls don't realize that beams arrays are the most powerful weapons in the game.
1. The Avenger looks pug ugly, the Vesta (urrggg ugly ship) force mated with a Sovereign. Why have all the latest STO created ships are bloody ugly, no elegance to the design. Klingon ships are better looking than these Fed elephant man ships.
2.) I will still play my Galaxy X because I can and I'm not a DPS deficit disorder obsessive.
DPS, DPS MUST... HAVE... MORE, MORE, MORE (starts to spaz out on the floor, DPS DPS DPS foam, mouth foam)
Nope I won't buy this looks dreadful.
Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey flings Feathered Monkey poo...
I don't get why people are saying this ship looks like a Vesta. This looks exactly like the Regent with a bit more armor. Everything down to the neck, pylons, and hull. The nacelles look like a more updated version of the Noble's nacelles. The only thing that looks remotely like the Vesta is the saucer.
///Anything below here is purely speculation
That being said, I wonder if this is something like a second upgrade option for the Regent class for fleets. I know it's a bit counter-intuitive given that we already have the fleet sovereign and what not. However, perhaps this is the "ultimate cruiser" for the Feds. Before you guys rant about how wrong I am, please hear me out:
We are already given the fact that it will be able to mount dual cannons and cloak (Gal-X traits)
From the looks of it, if it is anything like the Regent, then it would inherently be able to play with the Eject Metreon Canisters console. Plus any ship can equip the Wide Angle Torpedo. (Sovereign Refit traits)
There's been speculation that this ship would have a Saucer separation console, which means that this ship could actually turn out quite fast and nimble like an escort. (Gal-R and Odyssey traits)
It would be like the ultimate mash up of all the best traits of the cruisers currently ingame., assuming the BOff layout is still a cruiser layout. :eek: On top of that, I wouldn't be surprised if the BOff layout was even less restrictive than the Regent since this IS a fleet ship.
__________________________________________________
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
Cant wait for next pics to see it from diferent sides, but so far it looks cool. The saucer looks alot like the alkesh bomber from Stargate SG1 show
And i wonder, in adition to the cloak console, if it will get anything special like a weapon or something, since i doubt that will come with 2 consoles.
Aw i am still hoping for a saucer sep Sovereign in the future :P
I don't get why people are saying this ship looks like a Vesta. This looks exactly like the Regent with a bit more armor. Everything down to the neck, pylons, and hull. The nacelles look like a more updated version of the Noble's nacelles. The only thing that looks remotely like the Vesta is the saucer.
///Anything below here is purely speculation
That being said, I wonder if this is something like a second upgrade option for the Regent class for fleets. I know it's a bit counter-intuitive given that we already have the fleet sovereign and what not. However, perhaps this is the "ultimate cruiser" for the Feds. Before you guys rant about how wrong I am, please hear me out:
We are already given the fact that it will be able to mount dual cannons and cloak (Gal-X traits)
From the looks of it, if it is anything like the Regent, then it would inherently be able to play with the Eject Metreon Canisters console. Plus any ship can equip the Wide Angle Torpedo. (Sovereign Refit traits)
There's been speculation that this ship would have a Saucer separation console, which means that this ship could actually turn out quite fast and nimble like an escort. (Gal-R and Odyssey traits)
It would be like the ultimate mash up of all the best traits of the cruisers currently ingame., assuming the BOff layout is still a cruiser layout. :eek: On top of that, I wouldn't be surprised if the BOff layout was even less restrictive than the Regent since this IS a fleet ship.
Here's something to blow your mind: What if it didn't come with any special consoles of it's own, but could use any of the T5 cruiser ship consoles making it the ultimate cruiser...
BOOM.
:cool::D
Of course you'd have to own the ships the consoles come from, but...
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Here's something to blow your mind: What if it didn't come with any special consoles of it's own, but could use any of the T5 cruiser ship consoles making it the ultimate cruiser...
BOOM.
:cool::D
Of course you'd have to own the ships the consoles come from, but...
I like the idea of being able to mount most non-set T5 consoles.
But I'd be quite frankly horrified if it could mount the Oddy 3-piece and the Vesta 3-piece.
I'd be even more horrified if it could mount lockbox-ship-only consoles...
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
It comes with a unique cheese console " zone wide subspace party amplifier " has 100% chance to make any ship dance in space! Seriously tho i think " dual heavy beam turret array mk xii ( acc x2, dmg x2 ) " could be?
over time, bigger has always equalled better. the only time this isnt true is when we need a large quantity of something made quickly, then we build smaller. given the time, the federation has always followed the mantra bigger is better, until it needed to be able to produce a ship quickly, then we got the defiant.
go from connie to excel to ambass to galaxy to sov...bigger, bigger, and bigger...
compare sci vessels...oberth to intrepid...
why is bigger better? more of everything. more hull, more power, more weapons, more crew...
350 on the connie, 450 on refit...750 on excel...800 on ambass...1000+ on galaxy...ect.
each ship was improved based on the needs of the time, and the next series of ship tried to integrate those needs into it, then those crews tweaked their ships, and on went the progression.
The mandate of the federation is to explore and expand, but they will always modify their ships towards better fighting machines, thats natural evolution of trying to survive.
everything done to the enterprise d over 7 seasons was done to improve its ability to fight. antimatter spread...deflector blast...saucer separation...
BTW, any ship that separates should have multiple impulse drives required...1 for each section...
The avenger should only have CMDR tac...its still a cruiser, so u need a Lt. cmdr eng.
cloak better be built in, otherwise I wont be equipping it personally. none of the fed ships should be required to equip a console, it should be built in.
DHC's make sense...i just hope it has higher turn than JHDC...
FAHCR level hull and 1.1-1.3 shields would be nice...
self replicating torps hints at GCD firing torps, since all of us have "self replicating" torpedos now...
built in tractor/repulsor beams?
ablative armor is a nice "oh *****" button, but with a 180 sec cooldown like on intrepid, not all that cool...
seleya class captains yacht is a watered down defiant...i could definitely have fun with that as a combat pet...
supposedly also has saucer sep abilities...worker bees...more options...
in regards to looks, i like its appearance better than my chimera...
I wonder if we are able to buy the ship, and then grind for abilities to add to the ship itself...that would be a sweet new twist instead of adding more abilities for our characters...
over time, bigger has always equalled better. the only time this isnt true is when we need a large quantity of something made quickly, then we build smaller. given the time, the federation has always followed the mantra bigger is better, until it needed to be able to produce a ship quickly, then we got the defiant.
go from connie to excel to ambass to galaxy to sov...bigger, bigger, and bigger...
compare sci vessels...oberth to intrepid...
why is bigger better? more of everything. more hull, more power, more weapons, more crew...
350 on the connie, 450 on refit...750 on excel...800 on ambass...1000+ on galaxy...ect.
each ship was improved based on the needs of the time, and the next series of ship tried to integrate those needs into it, then those crews tweaked their ships, and on went the progression.
The mandate of the federation is to explore and expand, but they will always modify their ships towards better fighting machines, thats natural evolution of trying to survive.
everything done to the enterprise d over 7 seasons was done to improve its ability to fight. antimatter spread...deflector blast...saucer separation...
BTW, any ship that separates should have multiple impulse drives required...1 for each section...
The avenger should only have CMDR tac...its still a cruiser, so u need a Lt. cmdr eng.
cloak better be built in, otherwise I wont be equipping it personally. none of the fed ships should be required to equip a console, it should be built in.
DHC's make sense...i just hope it has higher turn than JHDC...
FAHCR level hull and 1.1-1.3 shields would be nice...
self replicating torps hints at GCD firing torps, since all of us have "self replicating" torpedos now...
built in tractor/repulsor beams?
ablative armor is a nice "oh *****" button, but with a 180 sec cooldown like on intrepid, not all that cool...
seleya class captains yacht is a watered down defiant...i could definitely have fun with that as a combat pet...
supposedly also has saucer sep abilities...worker bees...more options...
in regards to looks, i like its appearance better than my chimera...
I wonder if we are able to buy the ship, and then grind for abilities to add to the ship itself...that would be a sweet new twist instead of adding more abilities for our characters...
over time, bigger has always equalled better. the only time this isnt true is when we need a large quantity of something made quickly, then we build smaller. given the time, the federation has always followed the mantra bigger is better, until it needed to be able to produce a ship quickly, then we got the defiant.
Bigger isn't always better in real life. Otherwise there really wouldn't have been much need to miniaturize a lot of our technology. Function dictates general form. A bigger boat for exploring farther reaches without support. Smaller ones for patrolling your existing territories. It's just that bigger seems sexier. It just isn't necessarily better.
Regarding Starfleet and war - the simple truth is that "Explorer type" vessels are the biggest and sturdiest designs Starfleet build. An in respect of their originally peaceful mantra, those "Explorers" ARE the ships that fight their wars. Is it SO HARD to believe that they don't need/build battle/war/tactical ships, because those "Explorers" can be easily refitted for fighting wars - hell, the federation fought so many wars and still prevailed. Without cloaks, without battlecruisers. Starfleets vessels are designed to END wars. And after that they resume their usual duty. There is nothing wrong with the Sovereign which is Starfleets most advanced heavy cruiser being tactically more capable but that doesn't make it a battlecruiser. The Galaxy Class can be refitted to be a floating weapons platform, yet it is no battlecruiser. The Defiant and Prometheus classes are the only true battleships ever concieved and canonically both never were produced in mass, though the Defiant was more of an interceptor and the Prometheus a light cruiser.
I fully agree with you
Cryptics just seems to be obsessed by making Starfleet more and more militaristic, because (you know) everything else is just un-cool (for them).
Someone should tell cryptc that Starfleet is not just a generic human military, it's much more. But Cryptic only sees the military part of it which is (and was) always present but never Starfleets driving force or even the center of their politics.
Just like you said, Starfleet ships (cruisers) are explorers, but Crypitc just makes them into low grade battleships, compared to other factions ships.
Maybe it's just the terminus "Battlecruiser" and "avenger" which is really inappropriate for a Starfleet ship.
I just hope this ship comes with a good amount of science capabilities, so we can just pretend it to be a Explorer.
On the other hand would it have hurt Cryptics devs to just rework the GCS and make it a capable ship in STO?
Would it have hurt them if there was a GCS with some actual firepower?
Other factions need ships much more desperate than FED, they should have just reworked the GCS and put some good BOFF/Console layout on it and make good Science KDF ship (of whatever the Klingons need)
I think people are just turned off by the terminology. They cannot understand that Starfleet, per se, is not a military and that they use their "Explorers", which means their heaviest class of ships, to fight. And they do so while wearing colourfull uniforms. Just eat it, that's Star Trek. If it's not cool enough for you go somewhere else. Damn
100% agree.
That's Star Trek, but ppl constantly try to make it something else.
Personally i would have preferred it if they would drop the "Star Trek" ip and start their own universe. THEN they can make everything as badass military as they want, without ruining Trek.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Bigger isn't always better in real life. Otherwise there really wouldn't have been much need to miniaturize a lot of our technology. Function dictates general form. A bigger boat for exploring farther reaches without support. Smaller ones for patrolling your existing territories. It's just that bigger seems sexier. It just isn't necessarily better.
This. If bigger were better, the navies of the world would be building nothing but supercarriers and battleships. But there are no battleships left on active duty in the entire world, and only 29 active duty aircraft carriers, more than half of which are so small they require vertical landing. The majority of naval ships are not large.
Comments
The Defiant was designed with combat in mind, around using a relatively oversized phaser cannon array and with more advanced armor than less-focused vessels, cutting out on-board holodecks, expansive quarters, astrometrics labs, and the like... volume-wise, of course it's more efficient for combat than a massive cruiser. That doesn't mean that it is more capable than the Galaxy on its own (though many may argue that it is), it means that if you piled up an equivalent mass of Defiants to a Galaxy, you should expect that the Galaxy would lose in a straight-up fight.
The Sovereign, similarly, uses a warp core of similar size to the Galaxy (both are ~12 decks high in their respective MSDs) while paring down (but not completely removing) on nonessential functions such as family quarters, but also increasing the number of torpedo launchers (and phaser arrays, but that seems mostly for coverage purposes, and neither ship seems to frequently use all of its weapons at once) and the relative size of the impulse engines. In a one-on-one confrontation, the Sovereign should be expected to at least match the Galaxy, despite the lower mass.
This isn't to say the Galaxy is incapable, it's that it's not designed as strongly for combat as the Defiant and Sovereign are. Could the Galaxy be refit into a weaponized behemoth that outfights any other TNG-era Starfleet vessel? Probably. Was such a refit done during the Dominion War? I don't think so, actually. An extensive redesign and refit to swap out noncombat systems would have taxed a Starfleet that apparently cobbled together whatever other combat-ready designs that were available. Riker apparently decided that the additional power that could be pulled from the impulse engines was useful, which could have been affirmed by other Starfleet commanders, and a refit to increase the ship's security complement (by way of converting civilian living space to barracks) would likely be easier to implement while also serving a combat purpose (additional crew redundancies, defense against boarding parties, assistance with troop transport for major ground action, etc.). Normal radiative dissipation is totally inadequate for the kind of power output that an M/AM core would be used for. It's obviously not a design concern for most Starfleet ships anyway since none of them have radiator arrays.
A larger ship would likely lose more power to inefficiency than a smaller ship due to size (power losses within the lines). The power benefit of a larger ship would be the size of the warp core and auxiliary power systems it can carry, not any efficiency concern. ...Except that wiring already is analogous to water flow. It's not a perfect analogy, but then neither is an incompressible liquid a perfect analogy to high-energy plasma.
Indeed. This is important to remember.
The simple fact of the matter is that Gene Roddenberry got more and more into philosophical tangents with his storytelling as the years went by, and with that he wanted to essentially nerfbat everything. He was going to sue Paramount over the scene in Star Trek 6 where a military rescue of Kirk was planned (and soundly rejected), and he designed the phasers in TNG to look as little like guns as possible (and I believe he actually wanted there to be no phasers carried by Starfleet at all in TNG), just as a couple of examples.
Considering how much the fans like to debate the combat capabilities of ships and their crew, I doubt many agreed with this approach to the series. It is easy to lose the fact that many ships are quite capable of executing both roles. This is probably something that is common in both KDF and Romulan fleets, as well, from a practical standpoint. Especially the KDF, with their heavy emphasis on the military, would probably consider generalized research a secondary priority, so most of their science ships probably HAVE to pull double duty, and perform well in both roles.
I can guess from looking at it, that the designer took some influence from the USS Vengeance in ST:Into Darkness. The cuboid shape shape of the nacelles and then lower down on the side of secondary hull in front of the pylons toward the deflector is a bit protruding out similar to the appearance of the Vengeance. Also the name being similar, Avenger - Vengeance, is maybe making me think too much about this.
Makes me curious to see the front of it now.
Regarding Starfleet and war - the simple truth is that "Explorer type" vessels are the biggest and sturdiest designs Starfleet build. An in respect of their originally peaceful mantra, those "Explorers" ARE the ships that fight their wars. Is it SO HARD to believe that they don't need/build battle/war/tactical ships, because those "Explorers" can be easily refitted for fighting wars - hell, the federation fought so many wars and still prevailed. Without cloaks, without battlecruisers. Starfleets vessels are designed to END wars. And after that they resume their usual duty. There is nothing wrong with the Sovereign which is Starfleets most advanced heavy cruiser being tactically more capable but that doesn't make it a battlecruiser. The Galaxy Class can be refitted to be a floating weapons platform, yet it is no battlecruiser. The Defiant and Prometheus classes are the only true battleships ever concieved and canonically both never were produced in mass, though the Defiant was more of an interceptor and the Prometheus a light cruiser.
I think people are just turned off by the terminology. They cannot understand that Starfleet, per se, is not a military and that they use their "Explorers", which means their heaviest class of ships, to fight. And they do so while wearing colourfull uniforms. Just eat it, that's Star Trek. If it's not cool enough for you go somewhere else. Damn
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Right now beams/bfaw is the highest DPS for the majority of PvE content.
You can put out 20k+ DPS on STFs with Fleet Sovy, Excel, Ody builds, etc.
So I'm kind of curious, what is the Fed Cruiser problem in PvE?
Show me a video of you soloing that damned Borg Scimitar at the end of Khitomer Vortex and maybe I'll consider that statement!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
hmm pugging is almost like doing it alone in many cases so i do many kase's
dont see a problem here, it doesnt do much dmg only cloaks too often especially if ppl get to close when being attacked..
there is no real challange there..
Except with more eng, more hull, and do away with the smart-alec Science tricks.
I'm a simple guy, see. I befriend who I can, shoot who I can't, and hence preferably my ship shouldn't require a college degree to operate.
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Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
With all of it's saucer space devoted to barracks, supplies, and weaponry instead of schools and science labs, I wouldn't be surprised at all if each Galaxy class could field ten thousand ground troops.
Back to the Avenger - the Federation is at war with the Borg, possibly the Iconians, and soon the Voth. Battle Cruisers are needed - and something on the Avenger's scale could probably be very easily geared for Exploration if the wars end. I don't cound the KDF being at war with the Federation because of: 1, Task force Omega, and 2, all new KDF enemy mobs on the Fed side being referred to as Klingon Rebels. While the Federation and KDF might still be at a cold war with each other, I haven't seen evidence of a Fed/KDF war in well over a year.
There isn't one, except on this forum and in Zone chat, where people with thick skulls don't realize that beams arrays are the most powerful weapons in the game.
Everything else, FIRE EVERYTHING!!
"Everything?"
EVERYTHING!!!
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
Captain Gary Oldman, thats what the next Trek movie needs!
Come now, you can't be Sirius about this. :P
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
2.) I will still play my Galaxy X because I can and I'm not a DPS deficit disorder obsessive.
DPS, DPS MUST... HAVE... MORE, MORE, MORE (starts to spaz out on the floor, DPS DPS DPS foam, mouth foam)
Nope I won't buy this looks dreadful.
///Anything below here is purely speculation
That being said, I wonder if this is something like a second upgrade option for the Regent class for fleets. I know it's a bit counter-intuitive given that we already have the fleet sovereign and what not. However, perhaps this is the "ultimate cruiser" for the Feds. Before you guys rant about how wrong I am, please hear me out:
We are already given the fact that it will be able to mount dual cannons and cloak (Gal-X traits)
From the looks of it, if it is anything like the Regent, then it would inherently be able to play with the Eject Metreon Canisters console. Plus any ship can equip the Wide Angle Torpedo. (Sovereign Refit traits)
There's been speculation that this ship would have a Saucer separation console, which means that this ship could actually turn out quite fast and nimble like an escort. (Gal-R and Odyssey traits)
It would be like the ultimate mash up of all the best traits of the cruisers currently ingame., assuming the BOff layout is still a cruiser layout. :eek: On top of that, I wouldn't be surprised if the BOff layout was even less restrictive than the Regent since this IS a fleet ship.
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
And i wonder, in adition to the cloak console, if it will get anything special like a weapon or something, since i doubt that will come with 2 consoles.
Aw i am still hoping for a saucer sep Sovereign in the future :P
Here's something to blow your mind: What if it didn't come with any special consoles of it's own, but could use any of the T5 cruiser ship consoles making it the ultimate cruiser...
BOOM.
:cool::D
Of course you'd have to own the ships the consoles come from, but...
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
But I'd be quite frankly horrified if it could mount the Oddy 3-piece and the Vesta 3-piece.
I'd be even more horrified if it could mount lockbox-ship-only consoles...
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go from connie to excel to ambass to galaxy to sov...bigger, bigger, and bigger...
compare sci vessels...oberth to intrepid...
why is bigger better? more of everything. more hull, more power, more weapons, more crew...
350 on the connie, 450 on refit...750 on excel...800 on ambass...1000+ on galaxy...ect.
each ship was improved based on the needs of the time, and the next series of ship tried to integrate those needs into it, then those crews tweaked their ships, and on went the progression.
The mandate of the federation is to explore and expand, but they will always modify their ships towards better fighting machines, thats natural evolution of trying to survive.
everything done to the enterprise d over 7 seasons was done to improve its ability to fight. antimatter spread...deflector blast...saucer separation...
BTW, any ship that separates should have multiple impulse drives required...1 for each section...
The avenger should only have CMDR tac...its still a cruiser, so u need a Lt. cmdr eng.
cloak better be built in, otherwise I wont be equipping it personally. none of the fed ships should be required to equip a console, it should be built in.
DHC's make sense...i just hope it has higher turn than JHDC...
FAHCR level hull and 1.1-1.3 shields would be nice...
self replicating torps hints at GCD firing torps, since all of us have "self replicating" torpedos now...
built in tractor/repulsor beams?
ablative armor is a nice "oh *****" button, but with a 180 sec cooldown like on intrepid, not all that cool...
seleya class captains yacht is a watered down defiant...i could definitely have fun with that as a combat pet...
supposedly also has saucer sep abilities...worker bees...more options...
in regards to looks, i like its appearance better than my chimera...
I wonder if we are able to buy the ship, and then grind for abilities to add to the ship itself...that would be a sweet new twist instead of adding more abilities for our characters...
Are we still debating from which tree the Avenger falls from? :P
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Bigger isn't always better in real life. Otherwise there really wouldn't have been much need to miniaturize a lot of our technology. Function dictates general form. A bigger boat for exploring farther reaches without support. Smaller ones for patrolling your existing territories. It's just that bigger seems sexier. It just isn't necessarily better.
The Gal-X has been obsolete for a long time. Its a non-fleet tier ship.
I was making a comment, but you just started a debate.
Cryptics just seems to be obsessed by making Starfleet more and more militaristic, because (you know) everything else is just un-cool (for them).
Someone should tell cryptc that Starfleet is not just a generic human military, it's much more. But Cryptic only sees the military part of it which is (and was) always present but never Starfleets driving force or even the center of their politics.
Just like you said, Starfleet ships (cruisers) are explorers, but Crypitc just makes them into low grade battleships, compared to other factions ships.
Maybe it's just the terminus "Battlecruiser" and "avenger" which is really inappropriate for a Starfleet ship.
I just hope this ship comes with a good amount of science capabilities, so we can just pretend it to be a Explorer.
On the other hand would it have hurt Cryptics devs to just rework the GCS and make it a capable ship in STO?
Would it have hurt them if there was a GCS with some actual firepower?
Other factions need ships much more desperate than FED, they should have just reworked the GCS and put some good BOFF/Console layout on it and make good Science KDF ship (of whatever the Klingons need)
100% agree.
That's Star Trek, but ppl constantly try to make it something else.
Personally i would have preferred it if they would drop the "Star Trek" ip and start their own universe. THEN they can make everything as badass military as they want, without ruining Trek.
This. If bigger were better, the navies of the world would be building nothing but supercarriers and battleships. But there are no battleships left on active duty in the entire world, and only 29 active duty aircraft carriers, more than half of which are so small they require vertical landing. The majority of naval ships are not large.