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Avenger Class Battlecruiser

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  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    We're not "greedy." We've spent hundreds of dollars on STO over that last 3.5 year - we've put our money where out mouth is when we ask for something. That doesn't mean the KDF doesn't need some love but attacking the players' character when it's the company making the items is deciding what to produce seems very shortsighted and prejudicial to me. It's like blaming the dog for eating the dog food Purina makes.

    Not all Feds are greedy...but there is no way you can deny there aren't greedy Feds out there.
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    "the Captain feels that Starfleet's mission has always been one of peace."

    A federation battlecruiser is the very definition of an oxymoron.

    With fighting breaking out on multiple fronts. There is time you have to do something to defend your home. A bunch of peace loving ships won't cut it. They have several battles and wars going on in this game at this time. Specially with the larger threat of the Iconians coming. Star Fleet needs to be ready. Even dealing with the Borg during Wolf 379. Showed they need something to deal with threats. Which got the Defiant project going and others. Later the Dominion War really made them recognize to hold peace. You need to deal with threats.

    If not you will be conquered and the other group will be your masters. Or worse yet, destroyed and cease to exist.
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    USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
    Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Not all Feds are greedy...but there is no way you can deny there aren't greedy Feds out there.
    Of course, and there are greedy Romulan and greedy Klingon players too. But that's like condemning all PvPers based on the azz-hats who scream obscenities for 20 minutes after the match has ended.

    Sweeping generalization are often inaccurate and should be avoided at all costs.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    To me I like the ship. However I will wait to see how the rest of it looks, other than a quarter rear shot. I want front and side. Stats is the next to see and how I can make use of it. The cloak, I won't use at all. To me I don't like my Federation ship sneaking around space. So I don't even equip it in my tool bar to use. I rather have my KDF and Romulan sneaking around and use it on combat. Even though the NPCs isn't phased by cloaks, its more for the RP effect on my end.

    Lastly how will this effect my ship buying list. I already have a list on what is 1st to last. Which gotten smaller this past year. So this could put me in a bind on choices I make in the next few ship purchases. Specially when you have a few characters to get ships for. My next ship is already on my to buy. Which is a Romulan ship. So I have another choice other than the Lv40 you get for free. After that its now a question on how this ship is, and how bad I want it.
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    USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
    Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    I guess the answers to that can be found somewhere in the 3,600 post Galaxy thread. :D

    Actually, you'd be suprized how many people were screaming against any adjustments to the Galaxy class in STO because "it's suposed to be weak" and that's because it didn't have "battle", "doom", "war" or "dread" in the name.

    And here's a perfect example:
    farmallm wrote: »
    With fighting breaking out on multiple fronts. There is time you have to do something to defend your home. A bunch of peace loving ships won't cut it. They have several battles and wars going on in this game at this time. Specially with the larger threat of the Iconians coming. Star Fleet needs to be ready. Even dealing with the Borg during Wolf 379. Showed they need something to deal with threats. Which got the Defiant project going and others. Later the Dominion War really made them recognize to hold peace. You need to deal with threats.

    If not you will be conquered and the other group will be your masters.

    "A bunch of peace loving ships won't cut it." Because the Federation has always made ships that fire floral arangements at the enemies in space, followed by transmiting variations of "kumbaya" on all frequencies. That's why the blue Federation blur on the map is the largest in the Alpha & Beta Quadrants. Because peace loving ships don't cut it. Because if it's a cruiser and not a battlecruiser it automaticaly sucks.

    Hey, the Enterprise-D blew chunks the size of her own saucer off a Borg Cube. But what the heck, it was the weakest ship and it sucked because it didn't have "dread" in her name. :rolleyes:
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • nebbiosadonzellanebbiosadonzella Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    There is now a part of my mind that wants to believe the next Federation 3-pack will be the Doomwar class battledreadnought.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    shpoks wrote: »
    Actually, you'd be suprized how many people were screaming against any adjustments to the Galaxy class in STO because "it's suposed to be weak" and that's because it didn't have "battle", "doom", "war" or "dread" in the name.

    And here's a perfect example:



    "A bunch of peace loving ships won't cut it." Because the Federation has always made ships that fire floral arangements at the enemies in space, followed by transmiting variations of "kumbaya" on all frequencies. That's why the blue Federation blur on the map is the largest in the Alpha & Beta Quadrants. Because peace loving ships don't cut it. Because if it's a cruiser and not a battlecruiser it automaticaly sucks.

    Hey, the Enterprise-D blew chunks the size of her own saucer off a Borg Cube. But what the heck, it was the weakest ship and it sucked because it didn't have "dread" in her name. :rolleyes:

    Main reason why the Federation space is huge. Is mainly due to so many planets joining them. Its not all Earth owned. Which is where the Federation build their ships. However many planets do rely on them for protection.

    The Galaxy Class wasn't really designed as a Warship. They told this before when they was talking about the Sovereign. The Galaxy was more a "Family" ship. Where the crew could take their family with them as they explored for years at a time. And won't be gone with out them. However the ship was able to defend itself to a certain amount. You saw this in many shows where the civilian, kids all ran for lives to evacuate certain decks. Even in Generations. Where the others like Defiant, Sovereign, was more built for combat roles. More weapon placements, better armor, and less areas for family. Truth there really wasn't a Federation Dreadnaught built. Going by the shows/movies. The closest would be the Sovereign. Since the Galaxy X was from an alternative time line, and never used other than that. Where other ships made it to the regular time. Like the Negh'Var and K'Vort for examples.

    To me the Galaxy is fine, just bump it up 1 tact rank, so you can get access to 1 more weapon choice. That is all I wanted. The same fire power of the Excelsior Retrofit. Just keep the rest as is.
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    USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
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  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I think Cryptic will make mint on sales that tout its great design for combat until its old and a new combat designed vessel is needed to make gameplay fun again.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

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  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    shpoks wrote: »
    Actually, you'd be suprized how many people were screaming against any adjustments to the Galaxy class in STO because "it's suposed to be weak" and that's because it didn't have "battle", "doom", "war" or "dread" in the name.
    I was one of those people who didn't want to see the Galaxy adjusted. Why? Because it's a 45 year old ship. Logically it should be below its 2 future sisters: Sovereign and Odyssey. The name had nothing to do with my decision. :)

    The problem with this game right now is that ships don't make any logical sense. A T5 Ent B is better then the T5 Ent C, T5 Ent D, T5 Ent E, and, IMHO, the T5.5 Ent F - and the Fleet Excelsior just extends this.

    Every ship can't be equal, no matter how much someone loves it.

    The fact that the Avenger will probably be better then the Odyssey irks me from a canon perspective; but both ships should be better then their predecessors, IMO. But the game is what it is: massively imperfect.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
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  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    I was one of those people who didn't want to see the Galaxy adjusted. Why? Because it's a 45 year old ship. Logically it should be below its 2 future sisters: Sovereign and Odyssey. The name had nothing to do with my decision. :)

    The problem with this game right now is that ships don't make any logical sense. A T5 Ent B is better then the T5 Ent C, T5 Ent D, T5 Ent E, and, IMHO, the T5.5 Ent F - and the Fleet Excelsior just extends this.

    Every ship can't be equal, no matter how much someone loves it.

    The fact that the Avenger will probably be better then the Odyssey irks me from a canon perspective; but both ships should be better then their predecessors, IMO. But the game is what it is: massively imperfect.

    I agree with this as well. It should be like that, but it isn't. So they make each new ship something better or with a gimmick. To make it sell. Which is the name of the game to make $.

    With the Galaxy, most wants it totally reworked with all kinds of changes. Me, I just want 1 more weapon access. At least give it the attack of the Excelsior. However to me its just an KDF Negh'Var version kinda. And yes the Galaxy-R is on my list to purchase soon. Cause I love the ship design. Unlike most won't get it or use it due to not having all the attack powers. I see it more of a beam boat which I'm set up for.
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    USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
    Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
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  • johnstewardjohnsteward Member Posts: 1,073 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Maybe its the angle but so far i dont like what i see. My fleet assault cruiser looks more bad TRIBBLE than this strange whatever. Im sure they put a console on it to make it more interesting but as basically always it will be useless compared to other stuff you can put there. And why get excited when it not yet clear whether or not they make a fleet version with it or if we have to wait for that a while. Maybe it only comes with only 9 slots as other ships.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    skollulfr wrote: »
    thats not logical at all the galaxy is still well within the lifetime of its space-frame. not to mention(just to make your argument obviously false) doesnt account for the monarch & venture hulls at all in the least way.
    A Galaxy has no life-cycle. It's a made-up piece of fiction - generally created by a group of writers who barely knew the difference between a screwdriver and a hammer. :)

    Trying to put "science" into something completely made up that has no defined parameters is pointless. That's what too many people simply fail to realize.

    The Devs are no more scientific, or aerospace engineers, then the writers of Star Trek. They give made-up values to game blips and just hope for the best. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    shpoks wrote: »
    Yup, those barbaric savage Klingons that had interstellar travel in the 16-th century while Earth was in the Dark Ages. :rolleyes:
    Yup "Teh Awesomest Humans" brought civilization to those idiots the Romulans that left their homeworld looking for a new planet to settle in the time when Rome was a "thing" on Earth. :rolleyes:

    But what puzzles me most is why so many people lately seem to think that if a ship does not have "dread", "war", "doom" or "battle" in her name it's a weaksauce and completely incapable of throwing a punch or defending her teritories. :confused:
    Is that some modern "thing" these days?

    Idiocy is not a modern thing, it's an all-time thing :cool:
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  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Its got to have a hangar, dual cannons, and a spinal gun before I buy it.


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  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    skollulfr wrote: »
    so would you kindly, dont insult me with that kind of patronising argument.
    I'm not patronizing anything. It's very clear from canon that ships have a progression. The Excelsior replaced the Connie. The Ambassador was the next evolution, then onto the Galaxy, and Soveriegn - extending into the Odyssey in this game. But no one in Trek ever gave it any real numeric value. It was simply inferred from the sources that each ship was an improvement in some way over it's predecessor. You want some science to be involved with that, but science has never been Trek's forte. Trek's about technobabble "magic" science.

    The kind of game you want to play is Star Citizen, where ships have scientific logic built into their designs. That's not the type of game STO is, so using science or inferred realism as a basis in this game is pointless, IMO. YMMV
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    khayuung wrote: »
    Its got to have a hangar, dual cannons, and a spinal gun before I buy it.

    kinda like the vesta?
  • tinkerstormtinkerstorm Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    That class of ship is being renamed to Sentinel, this Battle Cruiser's going to be the Avenger-class.
    You should stop reading my posts because my very simple and super obvious point sailed far above your grasp.
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  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    skollulfr wrote: »
    the gal another 1.5 over the bass
    the oddball being the sov,

    The reason for that is the Galaxy has a lot of "wasted" space used for families and more spacious accommodation, which makes sense considering it was designed during a time of unparallelled peace as primarily an vessel of exploration. The Sovereign meanwhile was designed with a much more military focus to it, with space being used more efficiently.
    Previously Alendiak
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  • mrtsheadmrtshead Member Posts: 487 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    skollulfr wrote: »
    it was designed during the cardassian war, during a time where the federation was in a coldwar standoff with the romulans and their d'deridex class.
    it internal volume designed to be modular so they could swap out the guts of the ship rather than need to build new ones so they could have flexability in the roles it could be used for you can be damn sure the gal's in the dw wherent carrying their crews families, and if the sauccers where dead weight they'd have left them off and all you'd have seen are stardrives.
    thats canon and common sense in one.

    The fact is the Galaxy design has never made very much sense at all - your question is on point, for example - why keep the saucer at all? What does it add? The phaser strips? Those only matter if you buy the garbage about longer strips being more powerful (I don't, because it's egregiously bad science that has never been confirmed on screen and seems to run counter to the narrative presented of progressive developments in power through the Enterprise classes). The modular internal space? What are you putting in there that makes the ship more powerful in naval combat? Lifeboat for the crew? Why is the crew escaping on the part that's NOT warp capable? Generations showed that the theory of using the saucer to escape a core breach doesn't hold up either... This is above and beyond the question of why are you putting families on the ship in the first place. The design is a hot mess, from a functional standpoint. The internal volume calculation does nothing to change the fact that a smaller ship like the Sovereign or even Defiant is probably much, much more efficient in a combat specific role than the Galaxy could ever hope to be.
  • hawke89305092hawke89305092 Member Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    My reaction to this new ship is fairly "meh". There doesn't seem to be anything particularly distinctive about its design - it just seems like a bit of Vesta, some Odyssey, a pinch of Regent. I'd prefer something a bit more... unique.

    Also, is it just me, or does Avenger sound a lot like Vengeance? *adjusts tinfoil hat*
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  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Personally i can't really judge the new ship design by just one fisheye picture.

    It leaves the impression of a ship similar the size of the Odyssey or at least Regent.
    As i said i another thread, i would like to hope it can use the Odysseys ship parts and vice versa. At least it would make me consider buying it and the Odyssey somewhen.
    My reaction to this new ship is fairly "meh". There doesn't seem to be anything particularly distinctive about its design - it just seems like a bit of Vesta, some Odyssey, a pinch of Regent. I'd prefer something a bit more... unique.

    Also, is it just me, or does Avenger sound a lot like Vengeance? *adjusts tinfoil hat*
    Yeah, it doesn't sound very Federation -like. But hey, for some ppl Cryptics Federation is almost the mirror universe, lol.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
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  • mandarsmashmandarsmash Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    mrtshead wrote: »
    The fact is the Galaxy design has never made very much sense at all - your question is on point, for example - why keep the saucer at all? What does it add? The phaser strips? Those only matter if you buy the garbage about longer strips being more powerful (I don't, because it's egregiously bad science that has never been confirmed on screen and seems to run counter to the narrative presented of progressive developments in power through the Enterprise classes). The modular internal space? What are you putting in there that makes the ship more powerful in naval combat? Lifeboat for the crew? Why is the crew escaping on the part that's NOT warp capable? Generations showed that the theory of using the saucer to escape a core breach doesn't hold up either... This is above and beyond the question of why are you putting families on the ship in the first place. The design is a hot mess, from a functional standpoint. The internal volume calculation does nothing to change the fact that a smaller ship like the Sovereign or even Defiant is probably much, much more efficient in a combat specific role than the Galaxy could ever hope to be.

    The Galaxy is more cruise ship than cruiser, with labs and guns. It's a real oddball from a realist's perspective.

    The whole point of Star Trek was to explore the human condition through the lens of future possibilities. Its science doesn't have to make sense so long as it served as a vehicle for its narrative.

    Ships in STO serve a somewhat different purpose: they are designed for us to choose from as an expression of what we want for our characters. It is a kind of character customization much like a suit of armour or a costume in other MMOs. They're really not too much different systematically from our ground characters. They are simply avatars for our gaming.

    Trying to over-rationalize what should be better on paper doesn't work for an MMO. Above all else, the ships are supposed to appeal as "fun" for different segments of the gaming population. They are differentiators, pieces of gear. The only things that define what ship is better than another are their tiers, the level of the gear you put in them, and your skill at building and flying them. Their designs as pertains to even the Star Trek universe have little relevance other than to make geeks drool for them. For all that it matters, it could be a flying trapezoid with equipment and BOff slots and still kick every other ship's rear if they wanted to make it so.

    The whole point of balancing the ships to each other is to keep the playing populace diverse. They also don't need to be perfectly balanced in order to do that, they just need to be usable in the majority of circumstances (and seriously, if you can't get through the majority of content, including Elite STFs, in a Galaxy class, it's time to read some guides).

    So yes, it's just another boat with a gimmick or two. That's the whole point, but depending on the gimmicks, that's what makes it fun or not for different people. This whole obsession with finding one best ship is ludicrous, especially in a designed world where player differentiation is supposed to be a large selling point (i.e. any MMO).

    Some people will buy it. In fact, a lot of people will buy it. That's the point of releasing it. Just because it's new and shiny doesn't mean it's automatically better. There are plenty of new ships that I've glossed over because I didn't like flying them, and yet, with the ships that I have gotten, I've made a number of them feel very powerful.
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  • hevachhevach Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    Since the Federation is in 2 wars, with more dangling on the horizon, the idea of peace seems pointless.

    The Federation has also, more than once, built ships with an increased emphasis on combat power. They dance around the terminology on the matter, but all that really accomplishes is giving ammunition to the many enemies that accuse the Federation of hypocrisy.


    And no matter how much the emphasis shifts towards combat, the ship doesn't lose the Starfleet ideals. The Defiant showed that even when a ship is basically guns on an engine, it's still capable of applying its sensors and computers towards exploration and research. They didn't have enough bathrooms to go around, but they still studied anomalies, surveyed worlds, and solved scientific mysteries with the best of them.
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