At this point it is possible to instapop a target with decent hull and resistance, after the BO nerf tho, even HYT/Spreads cant be stacked no more, I tested it and a gainst a good target its almost impossible :P
At this point it is possible to instapop a target with decent hull and resistance, after the BO nerf tho, even HYT/Spreads cant be stacked no more, I tested it and a gainst a good target its almost impossible :P
Well hawk said that if that's the case that they'll look at healing or other things. If its the case that no one dies after the change, then we need to hold them to that.
Well hawk said that if that's the case that they'll look at healing or other things. If its the case that no one dies after the change, then we need to hold them to that.
yeah good luck with that.
they've put so many things IN WRITING and yet nothing has been done/given/followed through with that its a great fiction read.
theyve already done some needless nerfing to science powers because tacticals could do the science better then the science! (psw 3 comes to mind)
dont give them any more crazy ideas!
PSW3 was broken it wasn't nerfed because Tac did more dmg with it.
It was corrected because the numbers on it looked like this....
PSW 1 - 1000
PSW 2 - 2000
PSW 3- 10,000
Don't blame the evil tac for skill/bug corrections.
The only other thing they did was change the skill tree and added Resistance to debuffs.
Lets all be a little honest... prior to those resistance fixes... it was just as broken as double tapping for a Lone Intrepid... to Suck your entire shields with Tachyon + CPB... and then land a few torps to end you. (I loved doing just that on my torp bops.... but yes I'll admit it it was just as bad game play as decloaking with DEM up and Firing 2 beams both with an overload and landing some torp enderss.)
I started this thread and this will be my last post in it.
Dear Devs,
I would like to describe an event that just happened to me in PvP. I'm describing it to you as I feel that this sort of thing doesn't belong in the game.
I was flying an Odyssey cruiser. One might say that they're quite the tanky ship, with a lovely, large hull and lots of space for engineering powers that can help keep you alive. It has Elite Fleet Adaptive shields and a standard defence rating of 36%. At the beginning of the battle I saw an enemy escort heading over to me. In preparation I hit Polarize Hull I, Hazard Emitters II, Emergency Power to Shields III and Transfer Shield Strength I. I didn't want to take too much damage early in to the game.
Now, I understand that no ship should be invincible. That would go against common sense and fairness. However, dying in under a second in an Odyssey that has been prepped for an escort attack is ludicrous. (No, I was not subnucc'd just in case you were wondering.) I still had a little of my forward shield left, but as was made apparent from that pretty light show called an explosion, I had no hull left.
Welcome to the state of the game!! A game that has incurred these kinds of ridiculous events time and time again. Quite simply, you have been quite content to defile this game over and over again, all to make a buck.
I remember when Season 6 was released and a lot of players were angry with the changes. I thought that you were laying the foundations for strengthening the game, making a lasting game so I defended your actions and tried to point out how the game would be better in the long run. Now, I'm ashamed to have defended you. Since then you have turned this game in to a money grubbing tool, designed solely to leech money from people in return for items or abilities that fly in the face of fairness or fun.
I know that this sort of feedback means nothing to you. Why? Because history has shown that all the other players who have provided this sort of feedback have been ignored. As a result I will further provide my disdain for your unethical company by refraining to spend a single dollar more on your game. I will try my best to enjoy the things I have in this game, until such time as you ruin things even further than you have, but no more shall I spend.
Now, if you'll excuse me I'm off to play a game that has a nice balance to it. No, not STO. That's the furthest thing from balance.
Sincerely,
Someone who's not spending another dollar on your game.
This is only true when you have resistance consoles slotted to start with. Not running any (stupid but plausible) would make > PH1 a decent choice because you don't suffer that much from diminishing returns.
Energy Resistance - 16.6%
Kinetic Resistance - 13.4%
Say we were to add the common Rare Neut Mk XI (+17.5 DRM/DRR) to that, eh?
Energy Resistance - 27.0%
Kinetic Resistance - 24.6%
+10.4% Energy and +11.2% Kinetic.
Say we add a second one of those, eh?
Energy Resistance - 34.8%
Kinetic Resistance - 33.0%
+7.8% Energy and +8.4% Kinetic.
Say we had no skills and just slotted the single +17.5, eh?
Energy - 14.8/14.9%
Kinetic - 14.8/14.9%
The diminishing returns kick in right from the start. 1 DRM/DRR works out to 0.99%...
By the time you start mixing in other things, buffs/gear, etc - you really start to see where you're not really trying to maximize it - as much as trying to provide coverage for any gaps or any SNBs.
Things like PH2, imho, er...well...just what are you slotting at Ensign instead that wouldn't be better at Lieutenant while having a PH1 instead of a PH2?
Not to call complete bs on your story... cause I believe you.
However this sounds like a double tap more then anything... the escort likely pumped one overload into you got a proc on stupid doffs... and then overloaded you again.
If it really did happen with in a couple seconds... it wasn't any of the standard bleed weapons like transpahsics or even dem. (although the escort may have been running DEM for the marrion doff to overload you twice at full bore).
If that is the case... this is already on the upcoming nerf list.
The standard bleed weapons like phasics... and regular fire dem... don't kill anyone in under a few seconds.
In my experience, the only current solution to all of this bleed through nonsense is to slot lots of armor.
For example, on my FAHCR, I went from a configuration with 2x Embassy FC consoles + the Leech to one with no Leech and 3x Fleet Neutroniums (2x Mk 10 with HullRep/HullHP, and 1x Mk 11 with Turn). This finally allowed me to hang-in with some of the spikier escorts in Ker'rat. I definitely held up better vs. Jonie and Ivaan when they ganked me repeatedly last night. I died only occasionally, and I managed to pop each of them in turn.
Frankly, this last part surprised me since I figured my weapon power would take a huge hit from dropping all that Leeching/draining goodness. But even with just Aux2Bat running I was able to push out enough DPS from my 7x Fleet Pols + KCB to smack them around a bit. And being able to survive their 2nd and even 3rd passes allowed my pressure damage to wear them down. It all felt counter-intuitive, not to mention a bit simplistic vs. my more "elegant" power-focused drain build, but it worked.
Bottom Line: If you're running a cruiser in PvP, fly it like the tank that it is and not the high-DPS escort that it's never going to be.
I started this thread and this will be my last post in it.
Dear Devs,
I would like to describe an event that just happened to me in PvP. I'm describing it to you as I feel that this sort of thing doesn't belong in the game.
I was flying an Odyssey cruiser. One might say that they're quite the tanky ship, with a lovely, large hull and lots of space for engineering powers that can help keep you alive. It has Elite Fleet Adaptive shields and a standard defence rating of 36%. At the beginning of the battle I saw an enemy escort heading over to me. In preparation I hit Polarize Hull I, Hazard Emitters II, Emergency Power to Shields III and Transfer Shield Strength I. I didn't want to take too much damage early in to the game.
Now, I understand that no ship should be invincible. That would go against common sense and fairness. However, dying in under a second in an Odyssey that has been prepped for an escort attack is ludicrous. (No, I was not subnucc'd just in case you were wondering.) I still had a little of my forward shield left, but as was made apparent from that pretty light show called an explosion, I had no hull left.
Welcome to the state of the game!! A game that has incurred these kinds of ridiculous events time and time again. Quite simply, you have been quite content to defile this game over and over again, all to make a buck.
I remember when Season 6 was released and a lot of players were angry with the changes. I thought that you were laying the foundations for strengthening the game, making a lasting game so I defended your actions and tried to point out how the game would be better in the long run. Now, I'm ashamed to have defended you. Since then you have turned this game in to a money grubbing tool, designed solely to leech money from people in return for items or abilities that fly in the face of fairness or fun.
I know that this sort of feedback means nothing to you. Why? Because history has shown that all the other players who have provided this sort of feedback have been ignored. As a result I will further provide my disdain for your unethical company by refraining to spend a single dollar more on your game. I will try my best to enjoy the things I have in this game, until such time as you ruin things even further than you have, but no more shall I spend.
Now, if you'll excuse me I'm off to play a game that has a nice balance to it. No, not STO. That's the furthest thing from balance.
Sincerely,
Someone who's not spending another dollar on your game.
Not to call complete bs on your story... cause I believe you.
However this sounds like a double tap more then anything... the escort likely pumped one overload into you got a proc on stupid doffs... and then overloaded you again.
If it really did happen with in a couple seconds... it wasn't any of the standard bleed weapons like transpahsics or even dem. (although the escort may have been running DEM for the marrion doff to overload you twice at full bore).
If that is the case... this is already on the upcoming nerf list.
The standard bleed weapons like phasics... and regular fire dem... don't kill anyone in under a few seconds.
No, darra is right. You would never notice this if you don't fly an Ody or something equally engineer heavy. I personally own the Engineering Ody and can one up his story. Confirmed on at least 2 occassions, maybe 3 using different toons (speced differently).
Here's the setup: I bought the Engineering Ody for one specific reason... To have a fail safe ship for avoiding ZOMG-ubar-instapop's in PvP if I didn't feel lie zipping around in an escort or something. Mainly one of my engy toons (that now flies a Kumari, go figure) who is heavily speced in defense and resist. As you probably know, Odys have one of the highest base Hulls in game and sport FIVE engineering console slots.
Build info: So I'll start of by saying I never go top-shelf until I've tested with lower level gear and have been impressed. So in this case I was NOT using Elite Fleet shields, MK XII VR consoles, etc. I WAS however using the next best things or close to it. In the case of my Engineer for example, I was using Aegis set, and MK XI blue or purple consoles, and MK XII [cap]x2 Resilient shields.
Special note for antonio's comment: This happened all pre-BO Bleedthru doffs and in at least one case it was a cannonscort with no beams at all. Also shield meltage happened so DEM is not the factor either. IF I take a cruiser into PvP anymore, it is a fast one.
Here's the PvP scenario that happened more than once: I'll go into a FvF arena. I have maybe 2-3 neutroniums and some other fluff in my engy slots. Shields at max level or close to it. "1337 Escort" comes along and and literally within 3-5 seconds has melted a shield facing and entire hull before I can even apply 2 heals. Probably wasn't using TT but surely I buffed up with what I had which may have even included TT.
Part 2: So... after seeing this, I stay dead a second and mouse around to make sure I know #1 who killed me, #2 what energy type he's using, etc. I respawn. Now... since most of my toons carry a variety of engy consoles, I slap on 3 that resist his energy type + the 2 neutroniums. Somewhere in the range of 60+ resist to his energy type is where I was at. In one case they were using AP so I'll use that example here. All cannons, no beams or torps & I think it was a Fleet Tac Escort but I'm not sure I remember perfectly so he may have had a torp or been in a Patrol Escort. Irrelevant really. So now, I'm setup to tank this "jerk". I go straight to him and after my beam arrays bouncing off him he decides to turn around and proceed to pop me in 3-5 seconds again. Respawn, repeat, as I simply am dumbfounded, about 2 more times. I am only counting occassions where it was essentially a 1v1 in a public arena.
Now this is a 'tank-ody' running 5 resist consoles (specific to attacker), on at least one toon speced heavy in resist, with not "the best" gear but not crappy gear by any means either, resisting over 60 of said energy type, getting shields melted and popped in no time flat. This rarely happens but it does. It would seem a few people have something that makes their DPS output insanely higher than the majority of regular PvPers. I can chaulk SOME of this up to low defense value (speed), sub-perfect gear, or an amazing Alpha combo. But not this much. Don't bother telling me it was my build, tactics, or "his amazing skills." Something is clearly not right here. Maybe it was an exploit at the time, maybe STO's mechanics are just borked, maybe a bug. I don't know and never did figure it out. Also, heals were all but irrelevant as there was no more time to use them than would have been in a Miranda class with no shields. All this has since been avoided by "being fast enough to avoid the line of fire" but never the less, I see OP's point and confirm it. The overall feeling is that a small fraction of pvpers seem to have DPS beyond what is attainable even with the best of the best setups. Akin to a Captain level (30-40) player facing a well setup VA (50) level player in a 1v1. Again, I find this level of OPness extremely rare yet I was "lucky" enough to encounter it in a well resisted Ody a good 2-3 times. Were I in a weaker ship, it would not be as surprising or noticable. Also, these were not Rommy ships. Not saying I haven't seen Rommy ships this OP, just saying it's easier to explain those away.
I never bothered bringing this to the forums because I knew I'd get a slew of people telling me it was my fault somehow. But since OP brought it up, here it is.
TL;DR - Op is correct. I have experienced it myself in an Engineering Ody with 5 resist consoles. Pre-Rommy invasion, pre-BO doffs. Full shield and hull meltage in 3-5 seconds max. Heals/buffs be damned.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
So realistically, you only need to have the exact number of doffs that you need. ~leadme2kirk
No, darra is right. You would never notice this if you don't fly an Ody or something equally engineer heavy. I personally own the Engineering Ody and can one up his story. Confirmed on at least 2 occassions, maybe 3 using different toons (speced differently).
...
TL;DR - Op is correct. I have experienced it myself in an Engineering Ody with 5 resist consoles. Pre-Rommy invasion, pre-BO doffs. Full shield and hull meltage in 3-5 seconds max. Heals/buffs be damned.
You know, the Oddy should be such a tanky ship that NO SINGLE SHIP should be able to take it down in under 30 seconds. Even if every single BOFF was drunk and fell over it should take at least 15 seconds. This insta-kill TRIBBLE, however, makes the game laughable. Additionally, pressure damage is worth NOTHING in this game. With as much defence against the actual damage type that omegashinzon described above, the kill should have been the result of protracted battle or with support from the escort's team. Nothing less than that is really acceptable.
Here's a suggestion. I'm making a game at the moment (I develop games in my free time. Games that have balance, too) and when an armoured player gets damaged he loses actual armour points (AP) and healable armour points (HAP). What does this mean?
Let's say you have 100 points of health . If you drop to 0 AP you die. Now, imagine you get hit for 50 points of damage. Your AP drops to 50 and you HAP drops to 75. If/when you're able to heal, you're only able to heal up to the amount of HAP you have, in this case 75. You can never have more AP than HAP, either. The more you get hit over time, the lower your HAP gets. This results in player not being able to live forever with prolonged combat eventually killing you.
If this was applied to STO this would solve two issues. 1) NO player would ever be invincible again. I'm sorry, but ships being continually pounded by beams, cannons and torpedoes and then healing right up to their maximum is ludicrous. To have them do it in the blink of an eye is ludicrously preposterous. 2) Pressure damage would actually mean something because enough pressure damage will reduce your HAP to the point where you will eventually die.
In my game the ratio of HAP to AP lost varies with each weapon. Weapons that remove more HAP tend to be slow to reload or not as accurate. See how that balances, Cryptic? You could learn something from that example.
The Oddy, and nearly any ship out there, already is built to easily last more than 30 seconds against a single attacker. Of course, that does require the player being attacked to actually do something.
If someone died instantly then they were vulnerable and weren't paying attention.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
The Oddy, and nearly any ship out there, already is built to easily last more than 30 seconds against a single attacker. Of course, that does require the player being attacked to actually do something.
If someone died instantly then they were vulnerable and weren't paying attention.
I think you've missed the point of the WHOLE thread...
I was responding to the most recent story about someone dying instantly, and to the ridiculous comment about how the Oddy should be so tanky it should be impossible for one attacker to kill it in under 30 seconds.
To the original point, if someone can keep their shields full while their hull is being eaten away then their build is unbalanced.
[Edit] Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the game is perfect or that everything is as it should be.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
You got out-geared, out-doffed and outplayed. Similar experience happened to me in the recluse. I respeced my rep traits switched to using my Vesta and fbp3, not so much a problem now. You have to adapt to the meta and right now its not about slow moving hulks, your asking to be alpha'd. When/if the BO nerf comes, your time to shine will surely come again.
You got out-geared, out-doffed and outplayed. Similar experience happened to me in the recluse. I respeced my rep traits switched to using my Vesta and fbp3, not so much a problem now. You have to adapt to the meta and right now its not about slow moving hulks, your asking to be alpha'd. When/if the BO nerf comes, your time to shine will surely come again.
The way I see it is intelligent game design means adding things to an MMO to add new dimension and possibilities, not completely rendering parts of the game useless or utterly vulnerable.
The way I see it is intelligent game design means adding things to an MMO to add new dimension and possibilities, not completely rendering parts of the game useless or utterly vulnerable.
Are you saying that Cryptic, with their wacky yo-yo extremes of damage and healing - don't follow intelligent game design?
Are you saying that Cryptic, with their wacky yo-yo extremes of damage and healing - don't follow intelligent game design?
I want a new sig with someone trying, and failing, to punch out a bag marked 'sto'
...I fly a bop and if you think dying in an oddy is bad...how about being vaporised by a beam overload that ignores the only defence a bop has, its meager shieds?
I accept the fact the bop is not supposed to stand up to massive abuse, but it is in no way balanced, or fun (for me at least) to be unable to do anything but look at the respawn screen - and worse, I feel I cannot play in the ship I paid for as I'd be a major detriment to the team
They really need to take time out and go over every ability - healing and damage - and create some semblence of balance...it might not make them money at first, but if pvp had a semblence of balance, it would attract new blood
In my experience, the only current solution to all of this bleed through nonsense is to slot lots of armor.
For example, on my FAHCR, I went from a configuration with 2x Embassy FC consoles + the Leech to one with no Leech and 3x Fleet Neutroniums (2x Mk 10 with HullRep/HullHP, and 1x Mk 11 with Turn). This finally allowed me to hang-in with some of the spikier escorts in Ker'rat. I definitely held up better vs. Jonie and Ivaan when they ganked me repeatedly last night. I died only occasionally, and I managed to pop each of them in turn.
Frankly, this last part surprised me since I figured my weapon power would take a huge hit from dropping all that Leeching/draining goodness. But even with just Aux2Bat running I was able to push out enough DPS from my 7x Fleet Pols + KCB to smack them around a bit. And being able to survive their 2nd and even 3rd passes allowed my pressure damage to wear them down. It all felt counter-intuitive, not to mention a bit simplistic vs. my more "elegant" power-focused drain build, but it worked.
Bottom Line: If you're running a cruiser in PvP, fly it like the tank that it is and not the high-DPS escort that it's never going to be.
RCK
Im glad you'r enjoying aux2bat tac cruisers are the sweetest targets out there! Fun times in Ker'rat!
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
Anyone else finding all of these shield bypass methods annoying? Being in sustained battle for 30 seconds and noticing you're at 5% hull whilst EVERY face of your shields is practically full is BS. What point are having shields if they're the only bits left of you after you're dead?
What point are having weapons if they are unable to kill other players?
What point are having shields if people can bypass them?
Its PvP. Someone has to die.
Shields are not the only defense mechanism in this game. You don't get to live forever just because you have loaded every shield heal in the game.
Shields
Hull
Defense rating
Understand how to keep them all working for you and you will be next to invincible in this game. Focus on only one of the 3 and you will respawn a lot. It isn't rocket science.
This is also not the only MMO where you have more then one defense tactic.
You know those 30s where you didn't notice that your hull was disappearing?
That was your fault.
I know its fun to make "why did X kill my invincible recluse" threads at least once a month, but seriously it was your fault.
Antonio just laid out for you how you need to re-approach this problem, take his advice.
I don't think you read my posts. Take your 30 seconds and divide it by 15. That's the time it took my Odyssey hull to disappear. A ship with one of the largest hulls in the game and I had already pumped up the damage resists.
Every season we get either a DPS buff or a tanking buff. Last time around we got a tanking buff to where now a Defiant or BoP can shield tank by having massive damage resistances via Elite Fleet Shields, EPtS, TSS and etc. So to remedy this shield tanking new abilities were created that allow damage to bypass shields. Nukara Rep, Elachi weapons and etc.
Next season I predict we will see a hull tanking buff to counter these effects.
Comments
shhhhh
theyve already done some needless nerfing to science powers because tacticals could do the science better then the science! (psw 3 comes to mind)
dont give them any more crazy ideas!
Do you even Science Bro?
Well hawk said that if that's the case that they'll look at healing or other things. If its the case that no one dies after the change, then we need to hold them to that.
yeah good luck with that.
they've put so many things IN WRITING and yet nothing has been done/given/followed through with that its a great fiction read.
Do you even Science Bro?
Writing is a distraction.
Say this...
...do that.
PSW3 was broken it wasn't nerfed because Tac did more dmg with it.
It was corrected because the numbers on it looked like this....
PSW 1 - 1000
PSW 2 - 2000
PSW 3- 10,000
Don't blame the evil tac for skill/bug corrections.
The only other thing they did was change the skill tree and added Resistance to debuffs.
Lets all be a little honest... prior to those resistance fixes... it was just as broken as double tapping for a Lone Intrepid... to Suck your entire shields with Tachyon + CPB... and then land a few torps to end you. (I loved doing just that on my torp bops.... but yes I'll admit it it was just as bad game play as decloaking with DEM up and Firing 2 beams both with an overload and landing some torp enderss.)
Dear Devs,
I would like to describe an event that just happened to me in PvP. I'm describing it to you as I feel that this sort of thing doesn't belong in the game.
I was flying an Odyssey cruiser. One might say that they're quite the tanky ship, with a lovely, large hull and lots of space for engineering powers that can help keep you alive. It has Elite Fleet Adaptive shields and a standard defence rating of 36%. At the beginning of the battle I saw an enemy escort heading over to me. In preparation I hit Polarize Hull I, Hazard Emitters II, Emergency Power to Shields III and Transfer Shield Strength I. I didn't want to take too much damage early in to the game.
Now, I understand that no ship should be invincible. That would go against common sense and fairness. However, dying in under a second in an Odyssey that has been prepped for an escort attack is ludicrous. (No, I was not subnucc'd just in case you were wondering.) I still had a little of my forward shield left, but as was made apparent from that pretty light show called an explosion, I had no hull left.
Welcome to the state of the game!! A game that has incurred these kinds of ridiculous events time and time again. Quite simply, you have been quite content to defile this game over and over again, all to make a buck.
I remember when Season 6 was released and a lot of players were angry with the changes. I thought that you were laying the foundations for strengthening the game, making a lasting game so I defended your actions and tried to point out how the game would be better in the long run. Now, I'm ashamed to have defended you. Since then you have turned this game in to a money grubbing tool, designed solely to leech money from people in return for items or abilities that fly in the face of fairness or fun.
I know that this sort of feedback means nothing to you. Why? Because history has shown that all the other players who have provided this sort of feedback have been ignored. As a result I will further provide my disdain for your unethical company by refraining to spend a single dollar more on your game. I will try my best to enjoy the things I have in this game, until such time as you ruin things even further than you have, but no more shall I spend.
Now, if you'll excuse me I'm off to play a game that has a nice balance to it. No, not STO. That's the furthest thing from balance.
Sincerely,
Someone who's not spending another dollar on your game.
Taken from my character in-game.
Base Resistance (skills only) = 9.2%
PH + Skills
PH 1 = 41.4%
PH 2 = 46.5%
PH + Skills + Rare Neutronium MK XI
PH 1 = 46.1%
PH 2 = 50.6%
Still think higher tiers of PH are worth it?
A skill you can only use on yourself.
Starship Threat Control: All Damage (2500 SP/rank)
1 - 1.8
2 - 3.6
3 - 5.4
4 - 6.4
5 - 7.4
6 - 8.4
7 - 8.9
8 - 9.4
9 - 9.9
Starship Hull Plating: Energy Damage (2500 SP/rank)
1 - 2.7
2 - 5.4
3 - 8.1
4 - 9.6
5 - 11.1
6 - 12.6
7 - 13.35
8 - 14.1
9 - 14.85
Starship Armor Reinforcements: Kinetic Damage (3000 SP/rank)
1 - 2.7
2 - 5.4
3 - 8.1
4 - 9.6
5 - 11.1
6 - 12.6
7 - 13.35
8 - 14.1
9 - 14.85
Accolade (each is specific): 2.0
The numbers are DRM/DRR (Damage Resistance Magnitude/Damage Resistance Rating).
The formula to calculate your actual Damage Resistance is:
DR=(3*(0.25-(75/(150+DRM/DRR))^2))
So say you've got:
3 Threat Control (5.4)
6 Hull Plating (12.6)
3 Armor Refinforcements (8.1)
Respective Accolades (2.0)
Without any other gear/buffs/etc, you've got:
Energy Resistance - 16.6%
Kinetic Resistance - 13.4%
Say we were to add the common Rare Neut Mk XI (+17.5 DRM/DRR) to that, eh?
Energy Resistance - 27.0%
Kinetic Resistance - 24.6%
+10.4% Energy and +11.2% Kinetic.
Say we add a second one of those, eh?
Energy Resistance - 34.8%
Kinetic Resistance - 33.0%
+7.8% Energy and +8.4% Kinetic.
Say we had no skills and just slotted the single +17.5, eh?
Energy - 14.8/14.9%
Kinetic - 14.8/14.9%
The diminishing returns kick in right from the start. 1 DRM/DRR works out to 0.99%...
By the time you start mixing in other things, buffs/gear, etc - you really start to see where you're not really trying to maximize it - as much as trying to provide coverage for any gaps or any SNBs.
Things like PH2, imho, er...well...just what are you slotting at Ensign instead that wouldn't be better at Lieutenant while having a PH1 instead of a PH2?
However this sounds like a double tap more then anything... the escort likely pumped one overload into you got a proc on stupid doffs... and then overloaded you again.
If it really did happen with in a couple seconds... it wasn't any of the standard bleed weapons like transpahsics or even dem. (although the escort may have been running DEM for the marrion doff to overload you twice at full bore).
If that is the case... this is already on the upcoming nerf list.
The standard bleed weapons like phasics... and regular fire dem... don't kill anyone in under a few seconds.
For example, on my FAHCR, I went from a configuration with 2x Embassy FC consoles + the Leech to one with no Leech and 3x Fleet Neutroniums (2x Mk 10 with HullRep/HullHP, and 1x Mk 11 with Turn). This finally allowed me to hang-in with some of the spikier escorts in Ker'rat. I definitely held up better vs. Jonie and Ivaan when they ganked me repeatedly last night. I died only occasionally, and I managed to pop each of them in turn.
Frankly, this last part surprised me since I figured my weapon power would take a huge hit from dropping all that Leeching/draining goodness. But even with just Aux2Bat running I was able to push out enough DPS from my 7x Fleet Pols + KCB to smack them around a bit. And being able to survive their 2nd and even 3rd passes allowed my pressure damage to wear them down. It all felt counter-intuitive, not to mention a bit simplistic vs. my more "elegant" power-focused drain build, but it worked.
Bottom Line: If you're running a cruiser in PvP, fly it like the tank that it is and not the high-DPS escort that it's never going to be.
RCK
No, darra is right. You would never notice this if you don't fly an Ody or something equally engineer heavy. I personally own the Engineering Ody and can one up his story. Confirmed on at least 2 occassions, maybe 3 using different toons (speced differently).
Here's the setup: I bought the Engineering Ody for one specific reason... To have a fail safe ship for avoiding ZOMG-ubar-instapop's in PvP if I didn't feel lie zipping around in an escort or something. Mainly one of my engy toons (that now flies a Kumari, go figure) who is heavily speced in defense and resist. As you probably know, Odys have one of the highest base Hulls in game and sport FIVE engineering console slots.
Build info: So I'll start of by saying I never go top-shelf until I've tested with lower level gear and have been impressed. So in this case I was NOT using Elite Fleet shields, MK XII VR consoles, etc. I WAS however using the next best things or close to it. In the case of my Engineer for example, I was using Aegis set, and MK XI blue or purple consoles, and MK XII [cap]x2 Resilient shields.
Special note for antonio's comment: This happened all pre-BO Bleedthru doffs and in at least one case it was a cannonscort with no beams at all. Also shield meltage happened so DEM is not the factor either. IF I take a cruiser into PvP anymore, it is a fast one.
Here's the PvP scenario that happened more than once: I'll go into a FvF arena. I have maybe 2-3 neutroniums and some other fluff in my engy slots. Shields at max level or close to it. "1337 Escort" comes along and and literally within 3-5 seconds has melted a shield facing and entire hull before I can even apply 2 heals. Probably wasn't using TT but surely I buffed up with what I had which may have even included TT.
Part 2: So... after seeing this, I stay dead a second and mouse around to make sure I know #1 who killed me, #2 what energy type he's using, etc. I respawn. Now... since most of my toons carry a variety of engy consoles, I slap on 3 that resist his energy type + the 2 neutroniums. Somewhere in the range of 60+ resist to his energy type is where I was at. In one case they were using AP so I'll use that example here. All cannons, no beams or torps & I think it was a Fleet Tac Escort but I'm not sure I remember perfectly so he may have had a torp or been in a Patrol Escort. Irrelevant really. So now, I'm setup to tank this "jerk". I go straight to him and after my beam arrays bouncing off him he decides to turn around and proceed to pop me in 3-5 seconds again. Respawn, repeat, as I simply am dumbfounded, about 2 more times. I am only counting occassions where it was essentially a 1v1 in a public arena.
Now this is a 'tank-ody' running 5 resist consoles (specific to attacker), on at least one toon speced heavy in resist, with not "the best" gear but not crappy gear by any means either, resisting over 60 of said energy type, getting shields melted and popped in no time flat. This rarely happens but it does. It would seem a few people have something that makes their DPS output insanely higher than the majority of regular PvPers. I can chaulk SOME of this up to low defense value (speed), sub-perfect gear, or an amazing Alpha combo. But not this much. Don't bother telling me it was my build, tactics, or "his amazing skills." Something is clearly not right here. Maybe it was an exploit at the time, maybe STO's mechanics are just borked, maybe a bug. I don't know and never did figure it out. Also, heals were all but irrelevant as there was no more time to use them than would have been in a Miranda class with no shields. All this has since been avoided by "being fast enough to avoid the line of fire" but never the less, I see OP's point and confirm it. The overall feeling is that a small fraction of pvpers seem to have DPS beyond what is attainable even with the best of the best setups. Akin to a Captain level (30-40) player facing a well setup VA (50) level player in a 1v1. Again, I find this level of OPness extremely rare yet I was "lucky" enough to encounter it in a well resisted Ody a good 2-3 times. Were I in a weaker ship, it would not be as surprising or noticable. Also, these were not Rommy ships. Not saying I haven't seen Rommy ships this OP, just saying it's easier to explain those away.
I never bothered bringing this to the forums because I knew I'd get a slew of people telling me it was my fault somehow. But since OP brought it up, here it is.
TL;DR - Op is correct. I have experienced it myself in an Engineering Ody with 5 resist consoles. Pre-Rommy invasion, pre-BO doffs. Full shield and hull meltage in 3-5 seconds max. Heals/buffs be damned.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
You know, the Oddy should be such a tanky ship that NO SINGLE SHIP should be able to take it down in under 30 seconds. Even if every single BOFF was drunk and fell over it should take at least 15 seconds. This insta-kill TRIBBLE, however, makes the game laughable. Additionally, pressure damage is worth NOTHING in this game. With as much defence against the actual damage type that omegashinzon described above, the kill should have been the result of protracted battle or with support from the escort's team. Nothing less than that is really acceptable.
Here's a suggestion. I'm making a game at the moment (I develop games in my free time. Games that have balance, too) and when an armoured player gets damaged he loses actual armour points (AP) and healable armour points (HAP). What does this mean?
Let's say you have 100 points of health . If you drop to 0 AP you die. Now, imagine you get hit for 50 points of damage. Your AP drops to 50 and you HAP drops to 75. If/when you're able to heal, you're only able to heal up to the amount of HAP you have, in this case 75. You can never have more AP than HAP, either. The more you get hit over time, the lower your HAP gets. This results in player not being able to live forever with prolonged combat eventually killing you.
If this was applied to STO this would solve two issues. 1) NO player would ever be invincible again. I'm sorry, but ships being continually pounded by beams, cannons and torpedoes and then healing right up to their maximum is ludicrous. To have them do it in the blink of an eye is ludicrously preposterous. 2) Pressure damage would actually mean something because enough pressure damage will reduce your HAP to the point where you will eventually die.
In my game the ratio of HAP to AP lost varies with each weapon. Weapons that remove more HAP tend to be slow to reload or not as accurate. See how that balances, Cryptic? You could learn something from that example.
omegashinzon, I feel your pain, buddy.
If someone died instantly then they were vulnerable and weren't paying attention.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
I think you've missed the point of the WHOLE thread...
To the original point, if someone can keep their shields full while their hull is being eaten away then their build is unbalanced.
[Edit] Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the game is perfect or that everything is as it should be.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
The way I see it is intelligent game design means adding things to an MMO to add new dimension and possibilities, not completely rendering parts of the game useless or utterly vulnerable.
Are you saying that Cryptic, with their wacky yo-yo extremes of damage and healing - don't follow intelligent game design?
I want a new sig with someone trying, and failing, to punch out a bag marked 'sto'
...I fly a bop and if you think dying in an oddy is bad...how about being vaporised by a beam overload that ignores the only defence a bop has, its meager shieds?
I accept the fact the bop is not supposed to stand up to massive abuse, but it is in no way balanced, or fun (for me at least) to be unable to do anything but look at the respawn screen - and worse, I feel I cannot play in the ship I paid for as I'd be a major detriment to the team
They really need to take time out and go over every ability - healing and damage - and create some semblence of balance...it might not make them money at first, but if pvp had a semblence of balance, it would attract new blood
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Im glad you'r enjoying
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
What point are having weapons if they are unable to kill other players?
It's PvP. Someone has to die.
What point are having shields if people can bypass them?
Its PvP. Someone has to die.
Shields are not the only defense mechanism in this game. You don't get to live forever just because you have loaded every shield heal in the game.
Shields
Hull
Defense rating
Understand how to keep them all working for you and you will be next to invincible in this game. Focus on only one of the 3 and you will respawn a lot. It isn't rocket science.
This is also not the only MMO where you have more then one defense tactic.
You know those 30s where you didn't notice that your hull was disappearing?
That was your fault.
I know its fun to make "why did X kill my invincible recluse" threads at least once a month, but seriously it was your fault.
Antonio just laid out for you how you need to re-approach this problem, take his advice.
I don't think you read my posts. Take your 30 seconds and divide it by 15. That's the time it took my Odyssey hull to disappear. A ship with one of the largest hulls in the game and I had already pumped up the damage resists.
I'vaan, is that you? And where's your partner in crime, Jonie?
RCK - a.k.a Jacob Lightener
Every season we get either a DPS buff or a tanking buff. Last time around we got a tanking buff to where now a Defiant or BoP can shield tank by having massive damage resistances via Elite Fleet Shields, EPtS, TSS and etc. So to remedy this shield tanking new abilities were created that allow damage to bypass shields. Nukara Rep, Elachi weapons and etc.
Next season I predict we will see a hull tanking buff to counter these effects.