He never did, but because it was a lot of rambling most people chose to ignore that faulty remark.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I fully agree with the person who started this thread. Janeway justified her actions by saying "we know what will happen if we do nothing" (which meant the death of Seven, Chakotay and several other crew members and the mental decline of Tuvok). This comment alone shows she didn't consider the possible negative outcomes for a moment.
Yes, she saved some lives. But how many other people were never born because Voyager returned ealier, how many species have not been met that could have been of major influence on the Federation as a whole?
Archer asked Vosk 'who decides what changes need to be made?'. With Janeway, it seems she simply thought the answer was: 'me'.
When faced with the forced relocation of the Baku, Picard asked: "who the hell are we to determine the next course of evolution for these people?" Apparantly, when we're talking about a forced relocation through time by changing history, Janeway just gets away with it.
It's strange anyway. In the second episode, she's willing to let her crew travel for decades through the galaxy to save some Ocampa who probably ended up to be slaughtered by the Kazon anyway after Voyager left, as they never learned to defend themselves. However, when she gets tired of the journey, she seems to be willing to sacrifice the entire quadrant to get home earlier (or cut a few years off the journey like when she negotiated with the Borg for safe passage through their space).
Janeway's actions simply don't fit in with the rest of the story and she was irresponsible by giving priority to her own feelings for some of her crewmen rather than considering the whole picture.
I fully agree with the person who started this thread. Janeway justified her actions by saying "we know what will happen if we do nothing" (which meant the death of Seven, Chakotay and several other crew members and the mental decline of Tuvok). This comment alone shows she didn't consider the possible negative outcomes for a moment.
Yes, she saved some lives. But how many other people were never born because Voyager returned ealier, how many species have not been met that could have been of major influence on the Federation as a whole?
Archer asked Vosk 'who decides what changes need to be made?'. With Janeway, it seems she simply thought the answer was: 'me'.
When faced with the forced relocation of the Baku, Picard asked: "who the hell are we to determine the next course of evolution for these people?" Apparantly, when we're talking about a forced relocation through time by changing history, Janeway just gets away with it.
It's strange anyway. In the second episode, she's willing to let her crew travel for decades through the galaxy to save some Ocampa who probably ended up to be slaughtered by the Kazon anyway after Voyager left, as they never learned to defend themselves. However, when she gets tired of the journey, she seems to be willing to sacrifice the entire quadrant to get home earlier (or cut a few years off the journey like when she negotiated with the Borg for safe passage through their space).
Janeway's actions simply don't fit in with the rest of the story and she was irresponsible by giving priority to her own feelings for some of her crewmen rather than considering the whole picture.
I guess it was ok with the temporal police as well. So many possibilities so many possible futures, I might dig up my old sliders collection for lolz
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Here's why:
- I don't like Janeway. Women should not be Captains.
lol
Borg genocide? it's THE Borg. A singular entity. A singular malevolent entity. A singular malevolent entity, which was the aggressor in the scenario you reference. That's like claiming you are guilty of genocide because you wounded your attacker, killing millions of their cells.
Time travel violation? Apparently the time cops don't think so. Else they'd be setting the timeline right. They've had plenty of time to do it.
High treason? lol. Get real. (I mean that in the wholly techno-fantasy-real way that is Star Trek, obviously.)
Borg genocide? it's THE Borg. A singular entity. A singular malevolent entity. A singular malevolent entity, which was the aggressor in the scenario you reference. That's like claiming you are guilty of genocide because you wounded your attacker, killing millions of their cells.
Time travel violation? Apparently the time cops don't think so. Else they'd be setting the timeline right. They've had plenty of time to do it.
High treason? lol. Get real. (I mean that in the wholly techno-fantasy-real way that is Star Trek, obviously.)
Yeah, it's the Borg. Heck, even at the end of Endgame when the single Sphere came through the order was given to "fire" even before the Borg said anything. No one was waiting to see if these were friendly Borg. Starfleet knows what the Borg are: a virus bent on destruction in a humanoid forum.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I fully agree with the person who started this thread. Janeway justified her actions by saying "we know what will happen if we do nothing" (which meant the death of Seven, Chakotay and several other crew members and the mental decline of Tuvok). This comment alone shows she didn't consider the possible negative outcomes for a moment.
Yes, she saved some lives. But how many other people were never born because Voyager returned ealier, how many species have not been met that could have been of major influence on the Federation as a whole?
Archer asked Vosk 'who decides what changes need to be made?'. With Janeway, it seems she simply thought the answer was: 'me'.
When faced with the forced relocation of the Baku, Picard asked: "who the hell are we to determine the next course of evolution for these people?" Apparantly, when we're talking about a forced relocation through time by changing history, Janeway just gets away with it.
It's strange anyway. In the second episode, she's willing to let her crew travel for decades through the galaxy to save some Ocampa who probably ended up to be slaughtered by the Kazon anyway after Voyager left, as they never learned to defend themselves. However, when she gets tired of the journey, she seems to be willing to sacrifice the entire quadrant to get home earlier (or cut a few years off the journey like when she negotiated with the Borg for safe passage through their space).
Janeway's actions simply don't fit in with the rest of the story and she was irresponsible by giving priority to her own feelings for some of her crewmen rather than considering the whole picture.
When people get old, they reflect on the regrets of the past. So if someone had the chance to get rid of some of their regrets, then they would at least try to do it. Janeway destroying the array was an ethical decision. If they used it to get back home their wouldn't be a Voyager series and the Kazon using the array would have devastated that area of space not just the Ocampa. Janeway also had the duty to her crew to get them back to their families as soon as possible. There were not many events where she could get back home quickly. She asked Captain Braxton to get them home, but it violated the Temporal Prime Directive and Q offered to take them back as part of a deal, but that was another ethical decision that she couldn't accept. So we can surmise that as long as a method became available that took the Voyager crew back home quickly without resulting in a ethical problem, then Janeway would take it.
Killing the Borg is not genocide. It is pest control. The Transwarp Hub allowed the Borg to destroy thousands of worlds. Destroying the Transwarp Hub and dealing a crippling blow to the Borg to save billions of people from assimilation and getting home quickly was just too good of a deal for Janeway to pass up. So not going through the Transwarp Hub and destroying it was an ethical decision that Janeway couldn't pass up. As the older Janeway said, they didn't know about the Transwarp Hub until much later so the older Janeway couldn't have used it.
I hope it's not too late for this but I'd like to suggest avoiding some certain Voyager storyline elements in Season 8 or addressing them in a very specific way.
We all know that Janeway blew up Millions of Borg in order to get home. Movie wise I loved the ending. The uber Voyager eating through Borg was a stunning beauty. Trek wise it's the most horrible thing anyone could have done to the Star Trek philosophy.
Here's why:
- Temporal prime directive: In order to get home Janeway altered the timeline which is a blatant violation of the temporal directive. Even more so she did so for nothing but personal gain. While you could argue about 150 people benefiting of this, which is still nothing, she basically did it for Tuvok not to go crazy and for Chakotay to keep on dating his drone.
Janeway was particularly bitchy about enforcing the prime directive as religious dogma rather than as a guideline to keep in mind when facing choices relating to interfering. So of course how else could they possibly end Voyager than by doing that very thing? Hypocrisy and inconsistency at its best! But that was just more of the emblematic poor writing and direction the later trek series had, so what else could we expect really?
- Genocide: Janeways actions killed millions of Borg in the process. This nothing short of Genocide. While you can see the Borg with mixed feelings and you could argue that she saved millions of other worlds I would postulate that with all the knowledge they had they could have attempted to actually free those drones from the collective. This would have been the proper Starfleet way.
I never got the whole "mixed feelings" people claim to have when thinking about Borg. They are murdering, slaving, body snatchers that destroy civilizations. Do you feel bad about eradicating disease? Only TNG idiocy and misplaced pontificating could account for Picard not letting loose with that virus and hurting the borg as much as he could. See, the whole "they are a living thing too" aspect to it was tacked rather poorly. When most of your audience is facepalming you know you did something wrong.
- High treason: If things had gone wrong the Borg would have been delivered cutting edge technology by Janeway that would have made them even more powerful. This includes powerful torpedos, impenetrable armor and worse a device that would allow to travel through time. Even if that device had been destroyed the Queen would still have found information in Janeways brain. As a matter of fact it could even be that the Queen was able to transmit some of the information gained by assimilating Janeway to other Borg as well (and not just that one single cube at the end).
As we all know, the Voyager producers had a bit of a mandate to make Janeway more Kirk than Kirk, more pontificating than Picard, and even more badass than Sisco. Because that's the only way they felt viewers would accept a female captain. Nonsense really, I would say it even goes into Mary Sue category. One of the many reasons Voyager was a poorly received show. Them having her appear as an admiral in First Contact was just trolling the fans.
For all these reasons Janeway should have been court martialed, demoted and kicked out of Starfleet with no honors. Instead she was promoted to Admiral.
Given these issues I'd like to make the following suggestions for Season 8:
- Either discuss the Voyager ending very critically with Janeway having been forced to leave Starfleet
- or do not make any reference to Janeway and her decisions at all. Just ignore her and the voyager ending completely. Voyager is just back, but that's it.
Ignoring it is the best bet. I very much doubt they'd let Cryptic tarnish their Mary Sue's image.
All in all, I'd like to ask you (Cryptic) not to glorify Janeway and the choices she made. This has no place in a universe adhering to Starfleet principles.
Just keep in mind that Star Trek is a pretty big place. As a DS9 fan I prefer my Fedration/Starfleet to struggle when faced with tough moral choices, but to always take the option that is most reasonable, intelligent, and NOT FACEPALM WORTHY!! What's an assassinated romulan ambassador between friends after all?
I guess it was ok with the temporal police as well. So many possibilities so many possible futures, I might dig up my old sliders collection for lolz
The temporal police as portrayed in Voyager, and then the time agency involved in the temporal cold war were such lame concepts. They were trying to come up with their own Section 31 and utterly failed at it.
They should've had Sloan pop up now and then on Voyager to give them assignments that would also conveniently help them get back a little faster, all for the greater good of course. "Sloan was dead!!" you say? Was he? Or did he merely arrange for a moral upstanding doctor to believe so, and in so doing give starfleet the leverage it needed to end the Dominion War without creating an even bigger problem should the Dominion collapse and millions upon millions of jem'hadar seek vengeance upon the alpha quadrant? :eek::cool:
As to how Sloan would get to Voyager? Easy, its Section 31, you don't need to explain it! Imagine if it had been Sloan or another Section 31 operative that showed up and gave Janeway the key to get back to the alpha quadrant, while conveniently dealing the Borg a crippling blow? Would anyone question that?
Borg genocide? it's THE Borg. A singular entity. A singular malevolent entity. A singular malevolent entity, which was the aggressor in the scenario you reference. That's like claiming you are guilty of genocide because you wounded your attacker, killing millions of their cells.
Time travel violation? Apparently the time cops don't think so. Else they'd be setting the timeline right. They've had plenty of time to do it.
High treason? lol. Get real. (I mean that in the wholly techno-fantasy-real way that is Star Trek, obviously.)
Feel free to add your comments and thoughts but if you quote a post of mine I expect you to leave it as it is and don't misrepresent me as a misogynist.
Feel free to add your comments and thoughts but if you quote a post of mine I expect you to leave it as it is and don't misrepresent me as a Kermit the Frog fan.
So noted. But hey, I'm with you. I preferred Scooter and Fozzy to Kermit.
She did what she had to do. To get home. And saw it was a good chance to get home, deal a good blow to the Borg in the process. One which would set them back for decades to come. She did the whole galaxy a big favor. The Borg can't be reason with. All they want is to assimilate and destroy. And for once they had it coming.
I was hoping they would do a Voyager movie to do a follow up with the crew and etc. And go on to show if the Borg recovers etc. There is a lot of potential off this series.
To call her a criminal and all those other charges isn't needed. Since most loves the new JJ Trek. Lets see what this Kirk did. In the 1st movie. Failed Start Fleet Academy due to his attitude, boarded the Enterprise twice without authorization, several counts of not following orders by a commanding officer, Endangered the ship and crew a few times due to his recklessness, and I'm sure another dozen plus rules broken in that process. And look what he got for a reward being a Academy Flunk Criminal. Rank of Captain in charge of the Flagship of the Fleet. Which he should never earned. And should be peeling potatoes with a knife in the galley. So with this Janeway far deserves her rank of Admiral.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Starfleet via Admiral Nechayev tore Captain Picard a new photon tube when he didn't try and commit genocide against the Borg using Hugh and that fancy math problem put in his noggin.
And seriously, Starfleet would not have attempted to save any drones unless it is absolutely convenient. Those drones were doomed no matter what.
If this game is any indication we've all slaughtered them by the hundreds of thousands what with all the cubes we've killed in pursuit of end game loot! Janeway was just better at it. Romulans, Klingons, or the benevolent Federation; all groups are drenched in the blood of Borg Drones.
I don't feel Janeway broke the prime directive. The future Janeway should have been captured, thrown in the brig, and the keys thrown away, but the present timeline Janeway I feel acted in the best interest of her crew, saw an opening, and took it. I guess you could say she indirectly violated the temporal directive by extension of acting on an opportunity made by her future self, but then we get into the world of semantics. As far as the genocide, the Federation has been in a state of war with the Borg, and were I Janeway, I would have felt it was safe to assume that every one of those borg that got blowed up were hostile, and I was just defending my ship and crew.
Just because other captains have acted in a similar way does not invalidate the point the OP is making. Generally speaking the story was written in the way it was to facilitate an exciting and interesting conclusion to the series. If it were real Jayneway would never have acted in that manner, she was up until that point one of the most religious supporters of the prime directive passing up opportunities to get home faster in favour of honouring the Starfleet principles.
I agree with the OP on this, I hope that Cryptic are clever enough to start including some Star Trek in Star Trek Online.
The point is, all good star trek captains realize that Starfleet's regulations are stupid, nothing is worth more than saving the lives of your crew/you. The Borg were already enemies, and to free the borg from the collective would possibly risk the lives of thousands of starfleet officers.
My crew is my family, is there anything you wouldn't do for your family?
Why should the present Janeway be punished for any of this anyway. It was all done by her future version. Should she be punished for crimes she has yet to commit. (didn't go well for tom cruise) And anyway her future self was half assimilated, blown up and (presumably) wiped from history. I think that might be punishment enough. lol
But, if her future self went back in time and sent her old self back to Earth before 7 died and Tuvock got sick then she would not have a reason to go back in time in the 1st place so that means that she wiped that timeline out when she went back so that means she never went back in time since that timeline is gone, so that would wipe the timeline out where they came back earlier and 7 and Tuvock are fine. So in order for Janeway to be able to go back in time is for Voyager to get home with 7 dead and Tuvock sick as in the orginal timeline. If she goes back and gets Voyager home before that then there is no Janeway to go back and change anything. She created a paradox that will result in both the original and new timelines getting wiped out.
But, if her future self went back in time and sent her old self back to Earth before 7 died and Tuvock got sick then she would not have a reason to go back in time in the 1st place so that means that she wiped that timeline out when she went back so that means she never went back in time since that timeline is gone, so that would wipe the timeline out where they came back earlier and 7 and Tuvock are fine. So in order for Janeway to be able to go back in time is for Voyager to get home with 7 dead and Tuvock sick as in the orginal timeline. If she goes back and gets Voyager home before that then there is no Janeway to go back and change anything. She created a paradox that will result in both the original and new timelines getting wiped out.
My head is dizzy Lolz,
Time travel is complicated at best, either way if the temporal police thought it was bad, they would have stopped her.
They probably left it as it was one of the key moments in helping defeat the borg, the transphasic torpedoes, in delaying the borg until their progenitor is freed.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
She did what she had to do. To get home. And saw it was a good chance to get home, deal a good blow to the Borg in the process. One which would set them back for decades to come. She did the whole galaxy a big favor. The Borg can't be reason with. All they want is to assimilate and destroy. And for once they had it coming.
I was hoping they would do a Voyager movie to do a follow up with the crew and etc. And go on to show if the Borg recovers etc. There is a lot of potential off this series.
To call her a criminal and all those other charges isn't needed. Since most loves the new JJ Trek. Lets see what this Kirk did. In the 1st movie. Failed Start Fleet Academy due to his attitude, boarded the Enterprise twice without authorization, several counts of not following orders by a commanding officer, Endangered the ship and crew a few times due to his recklessness, and I'm sure another dozen plus rules broken in that process. And look what he got for a reward being a Academy Flunk Criminal. Rank of Captain in charge of the Flagship of the Fleet. Which he should never earned. And should be peeling potatoes with a knife in the galley. So with this Janeway far deserves her rank of Admiral.
Kirk didn't time travel to alter the past's events, rather to borrow some wild life lol
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Time travel occurs. The investigators basically go to the crew in question and ask what happened, and notes will, be made. As far as the 24th century Temporal office is concerned, they merely catalog because jack shiite they can do about it.
As far as The Temporal police/whatever from the far future is concerned:
They act when the "natural" course of history gets messed with. Say when a time traveler from their time frame goes back and mucks things up.
And time frame here is important. Because time travel done way in the past literally IS part of the past and going there to muck things around IS an incursion in itself.
They never acted on annorax and his time ship. Why? Well first because its long done history but also because the time altering events got resolved when the incursion ship itself got zipped out of time.
Its a closed "event" in itself so to speak. Its part of history.
The Same in principle happened in endgame:
Its a closed event:
Janeway going back in time to alter it is a closed vent, it already happened and going back to change the history as it happened would be anathema to the purpose of the time agency mission statement. (and the admiral janeway incident predates the agencys inception - hence timeframe)
They did hunt down braxton though, and why?
Because he went from his time frame back into the past to eliminate voyager, changing established history - ergo he must be caught and his changes be undone.
And now you also have to accept that the agency itself is fallible. I just remind you of braxton going back to time to gut voyager in his little timeship without even making an effort to investigate the cause and effect of the event he came to prevent (and how do you prevent something without investigating what happened first?!)...
So you see, the temporal police is not only prone to all the vices and errors of any agency, it also a lot more dangerous. I suspect there is massive red tape involved in their missions and the authorities play it safe:
Ground rule: we do not want guys from our time frame to go back and muck things up but we don't go police every event everywhere.
So, pipe down everyone. Of course janeway gets promoted, she did 3 important things:
1.) Massive data dump about the Delta quadrant: exploration YEAH.
2.) She brought potent technology that, after the dominion war and borg incursions, starfleet would certainly not distribute around like cookies but certainly keep it around, because TRIBBLE the rules there could be a fleet of doom cubes on the way and we all can live with a guilty conscience if it means avoiding MASS DEATH BY ASSIMILATION!
3.) oh BTW: HEY STARFLEET!! THE BORG GOT A DOORWAY RIGHT TO FCKN EARTH!!!! We thought you should know that.... *cough*
The illumination on the transwarp hubs itself is worth any promotion.
Time travel occurs. The investigators basically go to the crew in question and ask what happened, and notes will, be made. As far as the 24th century Temporal office is concerned, they merely catalog because jack shiite they can do about it.
As far as The Temporal police/whatever from the far future is concerned:
They act when the "natural" course of history gets messed with. Say when a time traveler from their time frame goes back and mucks things up.
And time frame here is important. Because time travel done way in the past literally IS part of the past and going there to muck things around IS an incursion in itself.
They never acted on annorax and his time ship. Why? Well first because its long done history but also because the time altering events got resolved when the incursion ship itself got zipped out of time.
Its a closed "event" in itself so to speak. Its part of history.
The Same in principle happened in endgame:
Its a closed event:
Janeway going back in time to alter it is a closed vent, it already happened and going back to change the history as it happened would be anathema to the purpose of the time agency mission statement. (and the admiral janeway incident predates the agencys inception - hence timeframe)
They did hunt down braxton though, and why?
Because he went from his time frame back into the past to eliminate voyager, changing established history - ergo he must be caught and his changes be undone.
And now you also have to accept that the agency itself is fallible. I just remind you of braxton going back to time to gut voyager in his little timeship without even making an effort to investigate the cause and effect of the event he came to prevent (and how do you prevent something without investigating what happened first?!)...
So you see, the temporal police is not only prone to all the vices and errors of any agency, it also a lot more dangerous. I suspect there is massive red tape involved in their missions and the authorities play it safe:
Ground rule: we do not want guys from our time frame to go back and muck things up but we don't go police every event everywhere.
So, pipe down everyone. Of course janeway gets promoted, she did 3 important things:
1.) Massive data dump about the Delta quadrant: exploration YEAH.
2.) She brought potent technology that, after the dominion war and borg incursions, starfleet would certainly not distribute around like cookies but certainly keep it around, because TRIBBLE the rules there could be a fleet of doom cubes on the way and we all can live with a guilty conscience if it means avoiding MASS DEATH BY ASSIMILATION!
3.) oh BTW: HEY STARFLEET!! THE BORG GOT A DOORWAY RIGHT TO FCKN EARTH!!!! We thought you should know that.... *cough*
The illumination on the transwarp hubs itself is worth any promotion.
Well written... even got to read up on Braxton and his endeavers after his exile on earth, fascinating.
Also probably why kirk never got a visit from them when he went whale hunting
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Time travel occurs. The investigators basically go to the crew in question and ask what happened, and notes will, be made. As far as the 24th century Temporal office is concerned, they merely catalog because jack shiite they can do about it.
As far as The Temporal police/whatever from the far future is concerned:
They act when the "natural" course of history gets messed with. Say when a time traveler from their time frame goes back and mucks things up.
And time frame here is important. Because time travel done way in the past literally IS part of the past and going there to muck things around IS an incursion in itself.
They never acted on annorax and his time ship. Why? Well first because its long done history but also because the time altering events got resolved when the incursion ship itself got zipped out of time.
Its a closed "event" in itself so to speak. Its part of history.
The Same in principle happened in endgame:
Its a closed event:
Janeway going back in time to alter it is a closed vent, it already happened and going back to change the history as it happened would be anathema to the purpose of the time agency mission statement. (and the admiral janeway incident predates the agencys inception - hence timeframe)
They did hunt down braxton though, and why?
Because he went from his time frame back into the past to eliminate voyager, changing established history - ergo he must be caught and his changes be undone.
And now you also have to accept that the agency itself is fallible. I just remind you of braxton going back to time to gut voyager in his little timeship without even making an effort to investigate the cause and effect of the event he came to prevent (and how do you prevent something without investigating what happened first?!)...
So you see, the temporal police is not only prone to all the vices and errors of any agency, it also a lot more dangerous. I suspect there is massive red tape involved in their missions and the authorities play it safe:
Ground rule: we do not want guys from our time frame to go back and muck things up but we don't go police every event everywhere.
So, pipe down everyone. Of course janeway gets promoted, she did 3 important things:
1.) Massive data dump about the Delta quadrant: exploration YEAH.
2.) She brought potent technology that, after the dominion war and borg incursions, starfleet would certainly not distribute around like cookies but certainly keep it around, because TRIBBLE the rules there could be a fleet of doom cubes on the way and we all can live with a guilty conscience if it means avoiding MASS DEATH BY ASSIMILATION!
3.) oh BTW: HEY STARFLEET!! THE BORG GOT A DOORWAY RIGHT TO FCKN EARTH!!!! We thought you should know that.... *cough*
The illumination on the transwarp hubs itself is worth any promotion.
Personally I loved the Voyager ending as it stands and the main reason for that is because Janeway, as a proper Starfleet Captain, realizes that the Prime Directive is not always to be followed because a good Starfleet Captain knows that they MUST be able to think beyond that directive and not just blindly follow it in all circumstances.
All the Captains did this very thing at different points in their careers and that is the beauty of Star Trek and being a Starfleet Captain, you do need to have the ability to be able to understand when it is time to follow your intuition and your own directives.
Comments
He never did, but because it was a lot of rambling most people chose to ignore that faulty remark.
Yes, she saved some lives. But how many other people were never born because Voyager returned ealier, how many species have not been met that could have been of major influence on the Federation as a whole?
Archer asked Vosk 'who decides what changes need to be made?'. With Janeway, it seems she simply thought the answer was: 'me'.
When faced with the forced relocation of the Baku, Picard asked: "who the hell are we to determine the next course of evolution for these people?" Apparantly, when we're talking about a forced relocation through time by changing history, Janeway just gets away with it.
It's strange anyway. In the second episode, she's willing to let her crew travel for decades through the galaxy to save some Ocampa who probably ended up to be slaughtered by the Kazon anyway after Voyager left, as they never learned to defend themselves. However, when she gets tired of the journey, she seems to be willing to sacrifice the entire quadrant to get home earlier (or cut a few years off the journey like when she negotiated with the Borg for safe passage through their space).
Janeway's actions simply don't fit in with the rest of the story and she was irresponsible by giving priority to her own feelings for some of her crewmen rather than considering the whole picture.
I guess it was ok with the temporal police as well. So many possibilities so many possible futures, I might dig up my old sliders collection for lolz
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
lol
Borg genocide? it's THE Borg. A singular entity. A singular malevolent entity. A singular malevolent entity, which was the aggressor in the scenario you reference. That's like claiming you are guilty of genocide because you wounded your attacker, killing millions of their cells.
Time travel violation? Apparently the time cops don't think so. Else they'd be setting the timeline right. They've had plenty of time to do it.
High treason? lol. Get real. (I mean that in the wholly techno-fantasy-real way that is Star Trek, obviously.)
When people get old, they reflect on the regrets of the past. So if someone had the chance to get rid of some of their regrets, then they would at least try to do it. Janeway destroying the array was an ethical decision. If they used it to get back home their wouldn't be a Voyager series and the Kazon using the array would have devastated that area of space not just the Ocampa. Janeway also had the duty to her crew to get them back to their families as soon as possible. There were not many events where she could get back home quickly. She asked Captain Braxton to get them home, but it violated the Temporal Prime Directive and Q offered to take them back as part of a deal, but that was another ethical decision that she couldn't accept. So we can surmise that as long as a method became available that took the Voyager crew back home quickly without resulting in a ethical problem, then Janeway would take it.
Killing the Borg is not genocide. It is pest control. The Transwarp Hub allowed the Borg to destroy thousands of worlds. Destroying the Transwarp Hub and dealing a crippling blow to the Borg to save billions of people from assimilation and getting home quickly was just too good of a deal for Janeway to pass up. So not going through the Transwarp Hub and destroying it was an ethical decision that Janeway couldn't pass up. As the older Janeway said, they didn't know about the Transwarp Hub until much later so the older Janeway couldn't have used it.
Picard actually did commit genocide. At Wolf 359. But you really kind of gloss over that. For whatever reason.
Still, in terms of what Janeway did, I think I'm going to let House Greyjoy of the Iron Islands rule on that.
The hive mind collctive space zombies that are The Borg?
"What is dead may never die!"
So nope, no genocide.
In regards to the Temporal Prime Directive, I suggest we let Gabriel Bell make the ruling on that one.
Mr. Bell will get back to us with his decision.
Comments in RED
The temporal police as portrayed in Voyager, and then the time agency involved in the temporal cold war were such lame concepts. They were trying to come up with their own Section 31 and utterly failed at it.
They should've had Sloan pop up now and then on Voyager to give them assignments that would also conveniently help them get back a little faster, all for the greater good of course. "Sloan was dead!!" you say? Was he? Or did he merely arrange for a moral upstanding doctor to believe so, and in so doing give starfleet the leverage it needed to end the Dominion War without creating an even bigger problem should the Dominion collapse and millions upon millions of jem'hadar seek vengeance upon the alpha quadrant? :eek::cool:
As to how Sloan would get to Voyager? Easy, its Section 31, you don't need to explain it! Imagine if it had been Sloan or another Section 31 operative that showed up and gave Janeway the key to get back to the alpha quadrant, while conveniently dealing the Borg a crippling blow? Would anyone question that?
Feel free to add your comments and thoughts but if you quote a post of mine I expect you to leave it as it is and don't misrepresent me as a misogynist.
don't vote for Sheck! I'm not a migrant you can trust me.
So noted. But hey, I'm with you. I preferred Scooter and Fozzy to Kermit.
I was hoping they would do a Voyager movie to do a follow up with the crew and etc. And go on to show if the Borg recovers etc. There is a lot of potential off this series.
To call her a criminal and all those other charges isn't needed. Since most loves the new JJ Trek. Lets see what this Kirk did. In the 1st movie. Failed Start Fleet Academy due to his attitude, boarded the Enterprise twice without authorization, several counts of not following orders by a commanding officer, Endangered the ship and crew a few times due to his recklessness, and I'm sure another dozen plus rules broken in that process. And look what he got for a reward being a Academy Flunk Criminal. Rank of Captain in charge of the Flagship of the Fleet. Which he should never earned. And should be peeling potatoes with a knife in the galley. So with this Janeway far deserves her rank of Admiral.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
And seriously, Starfleet would not have attempted to save any drones unless it is absolutely convenient. Those drones were doomed no matter what.
If this game is any indication we've all slaughtered them by the hundreds of thousands what with all the cubes we've killed in pursuit of end game loot! Janeway was just better at it. Romulans, Klingons, or the benevolent Federation; all groups are drenched in the blood of Borg Drones.
My crew is my family, is there anything you wouldn't do for your family?
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
But, if her future self went back in time and sent her old self back to Earth before 7 died and Tuvock got sick then she would not have a reason to go back in time in the 1st place so that means that she wiped that timeline out when she went back so that means she never went back in time since that timeline is gone, so that would wipe the timeline out where they came back earlier and 7 and Tuvock are fine. So in order for Janeway to be able to go back in time is for Voyager to get home with 7 dead and Tuvock sick as in the orginal timeline. If she goes back and gets Voyager home before that then there is no Janeway to go back and change anything. She created a paradox that will result in both the original and new timelines getting wiped out.
My head is dizzy Lolz,
Time travel is complicated at best, either way if the temporal police thought it was bad, they would have stopped her.
They probably left it as it was one of the key moments in helping defeat the borg, the transphasic torpedoes, in delaying the borg until their progenitor is freed.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Kirk didn't time travel to alter the past's events, rather to borrow some wild life lol
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Time travel occurs. The investigators basically go to the crew in question and ask what happened, and notes will, be made. As far as the 24th century Temporal office is concerned, they merely catalog because jack shiite they can do about it.
As far as The Temporal police/whatever from the far future is concerned:
They act when the "natural" course of history gets messed with. Say when a time traveler from their time frame goes back and mucks things up.
And time frame here is important. Because time travel done way in the past literally IS part of the past and going there to muck things around IS an incursion in itself.
They never acted on annorax and his time ship. Why? Well first because its long done history but also because the time altering events got resolved when the incursion ship itself got zipped out of time.
Its a closed "event" in itself so to speak. Its part of history.
The Same in principle happened in endgame:
Its a closed event:
Janeway going back in time to alter it is a closed vent, it already happened and going back to change the history as it happened would be anathema to the purpose of the time agency mission statement. (and the admiral janeway incident predates the agencys inception - hence timeframe)
They did hunt down braxton though, and why?
Because he went from his time frame back into the past to eliminate voyager, changing established history - ergo he must be caught and his changes be undone.
And now you also have to accept that the agency itself is fallible. I just remind you of braxton going back to time to gut voyager in his little timeship without even making an effort to investigate the cause and effect of the event he came to prevent (and how do you prevent something without investigating what happened first?!)...
So you see, the temporal police is not only prone to all the vices and errors of any agency, it also a lot more dangerous. I suspect there is massive red tape involved in their missions and the authorities play it safe:
Ground rule: we do not want guys from our time frame to go back and muck things up but we don't go police every event everywhere.
So, pipe down everyone. Of course janeway gets promoted, she did 3 important things:
1.) Massive data dump about the Delta quadrant: exploration YEAH.
2.) She brought potent technology that, after the dominion war and borg incursions, starfleet would certainly not distribute around like cookies but certainly keep it around, because TRIBBLE the rules there could be a fleet of doom cubes on the way and we all can live with a guilty conscience if it means avoiding MASS DEATH BY ASSIMILATION!
3.) oh BTW: HEY STARFLEET!! THE BORG GOT A DOORWAY RIGHT TO FCKN EARTH!!!! We thought you should know that.... *cough*
The illumination on the transwarp hubs itself is worth any promotion.
Well written... even got to read up on Braxton and his endeavers after his exile on earth, fascinating.
Also probably why kirk never got a visit from them when he went whale hunting
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Very interesting read! Thanks a lot!
All the Captains did this very thing at different points in their careers and that is the beauty of Star Trek and being a Starfleet Captain, you do need to have the ability to be able to understand when it is time to follow your intuition and your own directives.