The last epidode of Voyager always bugged me due to all the rules Janeway broke to get home. I understand why she did it, but the lack of remifications shown afterwards (shes an admiral in Nemesis) is a shame, Kirk saved the Earth and even he got demoted from Admiral to Captain, so to promote Janeway after breaking all these rules to a higher rank is a bit odd.
Long time Suri!
Yeah, my guess is that Janeway was so lauded as a Hero (like when the Federation was celebrating the 20th year of Voyager's return) that the Federation Council had no choice but to look the other way. So they likely promoted her to Admiral to make them look good in the eyes of the public, but gave her that deskjob in Nemesis so she wouldn't cause anymore trouble. :P
Therefore, how I'd handle it in STO, is I'd have a mission in game where you are sent to investigate the remains of the transwarp hub that Voyager entered and destroyed. During the mission you'd find logs detailing Voyagers use of future technology, as well as future Janeways involvement. This is where it would get fun, as we'd find out now that Janeway left all of this out of her report to Starfleet when she returned.... This would explain why Janeway apparently suffered no remifications for her actions, Janeway could be in the mission and maybe give some speech about doinganything for her family (crew) and that in hindsight she regrets not telling the truth, at this point Janeway would be demoted to captain and given the command of a starship (like Kirk in ST:IV).
I disagree with this, because it would be really hard to explain the Ablative Hull Generators and the remaining Transphasic Torpedoes to get past the Borg Armada.
They likely couldn't press charges since it was Admiral Janeway that committed the crimes, and they couldn't prosecute Captain Janeway for something she didn't do. Now the crimes she committed prior to then, probably got swept under the rug, since they likely think "eh they are on the other side of the galaxy, water under the bridge".
I would like a list of these crimes. BTW "violating the prime directive" doesn't really count. no one ever got punished for that, if they got punished, at all, it was for soemthing else they did while breaking the prime directive.
What ever happened to Daniels and his temporal police team? They could have confiscated the voyager armour and transphasics, why didn't they?? they could also have stopped Future Janeway before she made it through back in Time? So many questions unanswered.....
Maybe they just didn't like the borg. Hell Q could have thrown in a spanner for lolz
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
What ever happened to Daniels and his temporal police team? They could have confiscated the voyager armour and transphasics, why didn't they?? they could also have stopped Future Janeway before she made it through back in Time? So many questions unanswered.....
Maybe they just didn't like the borg. Hell Q could have thrown in a spanner for lolz
Indeed, this is the problem with the OPs thesis.
The point being, if this timeline was wrong it would never have happened.
....................perhaps Janeway's actions have created a timeline where the Temporal Police have either been defeated or never created.
Thing is, we'll never know. This is the timeline we're in and to judge it by the standards of another timeline is to like asking a beachball to write an essay using The Empire State Building on Acid, describing the smell of twelve.
I could understand the "three fries short of a happy meal, whacko!!!" argument about genocide if future janeway stated that she was going to make the borg pay the line must be drawn here and went across the Delta quadrent Owning every borg planet and ship in sight, but she didn't! She only brought back that technology to get past the borg in the nebula not destroy the race.
She didn't even plan on destroying the transwarp hub she only cared about getting voyager home and nothing else. That if nothing else proves that she didn't want to destroy the borg as a whole and she didn't. when they went through with younger Janeways plan to destroy that transwarp hub it's because it posed a threat to the federation with it's opening leading right to sector 001 in spitting range of earth. it was also shown in many trek episodes that there were many transwarp hubs in use, so while yes the borg were crippled for a short time by no means were they exterminated.
I could understand the "three fries short of a happy meal, whacko!!!" argument about genocide if future janeway stated that she was going to make the borg pay the line must be drawn here and went across the Delta quadrent Owning every borg planet and ship in sight, but she didn't! She only brought back that technology to get past the borg in the nebula not destroy the race.
She didn't even plan on destroying the transwarp hub she only cared about getting voyager home and nothing else. That if nothing else proves that she didn't want to destroy the borg as a whole and she didn't. when they went through with younger Janeways plan to destroy that transwarp hub it's because it posed a threat to the federation with it's opening leading right to sector 001 in spitting range of earth. it was also shown in many trek episodes that there were many transwarp hubs in use, so while yes the borg were crippled for a short time by no means were they exterminated.
However the fact Future Janeway appeared gave the Borg a huge advantage in assimilating and adapting the future tech. Looking at the books, it took a hugh KDF fleet to fire their whole arsenal of Transphasics to just win one battle with thousands of torps thrown. They had to fire at the same time and at teh same time limit it before hand while the war with the borg was on as they feared they would adapt too quickly.
But what is known is that future factions tend to leave the feds alone until POST borg era. Maybe Daniels and co thought this was an acceptable timeline.
On another note, why did they not do something about Nero, he completely changed history by being in a place he wasn't supposed to be albeit not through his own time jumping tech, which is probably why he wasn't insta vaped.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
My take on Voyager has always been that Command cut Janeway and crew a lot of slack due to the extreme nature of their situation.
As for the time cops, they don't interfere unless time is unfolding differently than it should have. The fact that they didn't means that what we saw was what was supposed to happen.
My take on Voyager has always been that Command cut Janeway and crew a lot of slack due to the extreme nature of their situation.
As for the time cops, they don't interfere unless time is unfolding differently than it should have. The fact that they didn't means that what we saw was what was supposed to happen.
Yeah. Time cops don't change everything back. If they did then all the trips Kirk and crew took to the past would never have been allowed.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Yes, Ablative Armor existed long ago, and was firsted used on the Defiant.
However, you are mistaking "Ablative Shields" with the Ablative Generator.
Is it me, or has the the word "ablative" apparently been turned into the magic keyword in Star Trek for "really really tough armor?" It strikes me as being something along those lines, and doesn't really seem to be very consistent with what ablative actually means. Not the least of which that the very nature of the armor means it's only good for so much use.
Yeah, my guess is that Janeway was so lauded as a Hero (like when the Federation was celebrating the 20th year of Voyager's return) that the Federation Council had no choice but to look the other way. So they likely promoted her to Admiral to make them look good in the eyes of the public, but gave her that deskjob in Nemesis so she wouldn't cause anymore trouble. :P
...
They likely couldn't press charges since it was Admiral Janeway that committed the crimes, and they couldn't prosecute Captain Janeway for something she didn't do. Now the crimes she committed prior to then, probably got swept under the rug, since they likely think "eh they are on the other side of the galaxy, water under the bridge".
I'm inclined to agree with this. Janeway was far too popular to prosecute - it would be an utter PR nightmare beyond words in so many ways. So essentially promoting her to a safe position was the best thing they could do. I kind of wonder what'd happen with her long-term, however, considering this tidbit - I'd guess it wouldn't take too long for her to realize she's been promoted to a tiny corner where all she can do is terrorize the unfortunate ensigns that act as her lackeys.
I would like a list of these crimes. BTW "violating the prime directive" doesn't really count. no one ever got punished for that, if they got punished, at all, it was for soemthing else they did while breaking the prime directive.
Is it me, or has the the word "ablative" apparently been turned into the magic keyword in Star Trek for "really really tough armor?" It strikes me as being something along those lines, and doesn't really seem to be very consistent with what ablative actually means. Not the least of which that the very nature of the armor means it's only good for so much use.
From what I understood, the armor works like it's name implies. In exchange of reducing the effects of energy weapons, pieces of the armor break off in a reactive process. Which with the Borg, it makes it harder for their Tractor Beams to get a good hold since the armor is basically flaking off.
I'm inclined to agree with this. Janeway was far too popular to prosecute - it would be an utter PR nightmare beyond words in so many ways. So essentially promoting her to a safe position was the best thing they could do. I kind of wonder what'd happen with her long-term, however, considering this tidbit - I'd guess it wouldn't take too long for her to realize she's been promoted to a tiny corner where all she can do is terrorize the unfortunate ensigns that act as her lackeys.
Well in canon she was last in a desk job at SFHQ, but in STO lore and some of the novels, she got back into a starship. Now if she makes a reappearance in an upcoming story, that's a possibility given we might be heading into the Delta Quadrant soon.
....................perhaps Janeway's actions have created a timeline where the Temporal Police have either been defeated or never created.
Thing is, we'll never know. This is the timeline we're in and to judge it by the standards of another timeline is to like asking a beachball to write an essay using The Empire State Building on Acid, describing the smell of twelve.
According to the first Department of Temporal Investigations novel, the Temporal factions have called a ceasefire between the time the Federation was created and the Borg were removed from the Galaxy. It basically stated that there would be no civilization capable of Time Travel if the Borg in its current form were still around in a few hundred years. So technology that came from the future and dealt with defeating the Borg would be ignored by Temporal Organizations. As long as Empires used the Transphasic Torpedoes on the Borg and nothing else, then the Temporal Organizations are perfectly fine with people TRIBBLE around with time travel. As long as it is not a major change, then they are perfectly fine with it.
According to the first Department of Temporal Investigations novel, the Temporal factions have called a ceasefire between the time the Federation was created and the Borg were removed from the Galaxy. It basically stated that there would be no civilization capable of Time Travel if the Borg in its current form were still around in a few hundred years. So technology that came from the future and dealt with defeating the Borg would be ignored by Temporal Organizations. As long as Empires used the Transphasic Torpedoes on the Borg and nothing else, then the Temporal Organizations are perfectly fine with people TRIBBLE around with time travel. As long as it is not a major change, then they are perfectly fine with it.
The irony is the borg weren't defeated by anyone, rather they simply were liberated by their orginal creator and went away with some other ancient race which they orginated from.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
The irony is the borg weren't defeated by anyone, rather they simply were liberated by their orginal creator and went away with some other ancient race which they orginated from.
It is doubtful that all the Borg left with the Caeliar. Seven of Nine was left behind or decided to stay. The saddest thing is that this is not the biggest WTF moment in recent Star Trek novels. The Omega Continuum has to take the prize for that or members of Voyager deciding to go back to the Delta Quadrant.
On another note, why did they not do something about Nero, he completely changed history by being in a place he wasn't supposed to be albeit not through his own time jumping tech, which is probably why he wasn't insta vaped.
He did not change anything, he created a new and entirely separate timeline.
right first of all I want to say your posting a thread about something that A) happened YEARS ago and obviously know nothing about.
The storyline to get voyager home was VOTED ON BY THE STAR TREK FANS. the star trek magazine did a poll on behalf of the people that make star trek on if they want voyager to be sent home at the end of the then current series or if to keep them in the alpha quadrant.
The fans voted YES to sending the crew home. the following magazine had a poll for the species and everyone voted Borg.
So that address the so called Star Trek philosophy (which by the way doesn't exist)
The temporal prime directive was addressed within the episode Endgame, if you had bothered to watch the episode you would hear both janeways debating it.
The issue of gencodie doe not come into this episode and is not relevant seen as the borg commit genocide on a daily basis. also janeway did NOT commit genocide. By destroying the hub and the queen this left the remaining borg to regain their individuality. the only problem is that star fleet is not in the delta quadrant so cannot help the survivors.
Also high treason is not relvant in this episode due to it been the FUTURE janeway going back in time.Additionally you cannot charge someone with treason who is trying to get their crew home. janeway did NOT steal the technology to hand over to the borg. she took it to give to her past self. So again your statement is irrelevant. and your suggestions stupid and baseless. also if you had any common sense about you you would have read the game description, this star trek universe is based in the 25th century. janeway will either be dead from old age or a retired admiral. so next time do your research instead of creating a useless thread.
The issue of gencodie doe not come into this episode and is not relevant seen as the borg commit genocide on a daily basis. also janeway did NOT commit genocide. By destroying the hub and the queen this left the remaining borg to regain their individuality. the only problem is that star fleet is not in the delta quadrant so cannot help the survivors.
It would not leave the remaining Borg to regain their individuality.
At least two other queens were killed between Janeway and Picard, and it's not even clear if the second queen Janeway encounters several times after killing her first is even the same one each time. In the first case we see a localized disruption of the collective but not a return to individuality, and in the second case we don't even see that.
And the hub is one of six such hubs the Borg have constructed (and most distressingly only four of them appear on their own map of this galaxy). There are five left, at least two of them closer to Federation space than that one.
Even future-Janeway's pathogen was not a permanent disruption of the collective, one ship was able to adapt within minutes, the rest of the collective would have followed in short order. Nothing either Janeway did was going to be any more than a temporary inconvenience to the collective - they were already finding ways around the armor (the last sphere did more damage than all the cubes before it), the queen knew they could adapt to the torpedoes but not before Voyager destroyed many cubes and possibly the entire hub, and everything else was only a temporary disruption. That's all they needed.
I hope it's not too late for this but I'd like to suggest avoiding some certain Voyager storyline elements in Season 8 or addressing them in a very specific way.
We all know that Janeway blew up Millions of Borg in order to get home. Movie wise I loved the ending. The uber Voyager eating through Borg was a stunning beauty. Trek wise it's the most horrible thing anyone could have done to the Star Trek philosophy.
Here's why:
- Temporal prime directive: In order to get home Janeway altered the timeline which is a blatant violation of the temporal directive. Even more so she did so for nothing but personal gain. While you could argue about 150 people benefiting of this, which is still nothing, she basically did it for Tuvok not to go crazy and for Chakotay to keep on dating his drone.
- Genocide: Janeways actions killed millions of Borg in the process. This nothing short of Genocide. While you can see the Borg with mixed feelings and you could argue that she saved millions of other worlds I would postulate that with all the knowledge they had they could have attempted to actually free those drones from the collective. This would have been the proper Starfleet way.
- High treason: If things had gone wrong the Borg would have been delivered cutting edge technology by Janeway that would have made them even more powerful. This includes powerful torpedos, impenetrable armor and worse a device that would allow to travel through time. Even if that device had been destroyed the Queen would still have found information in Janeways brain. As a matter of fact it could even be that the Queen was able to transmit some of the information gained by assimilating Janeway to other Borg as well (and not just that one single cube at the end).
For all these reasons Janeway should have been court martialed, demoted and kicked out of Starfleet with no honors. Instead she was promoted to Admiral.
Given these issues I'd like to make the following suggestions for Season 8:
- Either discuss the Voyager ending very critically with Janeway having been forced to leave Starfleet
- or do not make any reference to Janeway and her decisions at all. Just ignore her and the voyager ending completely. Voyager is just back, but that's it.
All in all, I'd like to ask you (Cryptic) not to glorify Janeway and the choices she made. This has no place in a universe adhering to Starfleet principles.
Point by point:
Temporal Prime Directive suggests she had a choice. In the "original" future, the Borg are most likely gone, thanks to Janeways tech. Or at least a minor threat. That timeline continued after Adr. Janeways departure. No specific damage was done to the timeline other than getting Voyager home. The Borg were still reduced to a minor threat and this time everyone lived. If it had been a horrible, universe ending threat, don't you think the Relativity would have done something about it?
Genocide; It's not genocide unless you completely or nearly completely exterminate an entire race and culture. As the Borg are still around, assimilating stuff and making a pest of themselves, this argument is invalidated. Also, it's the BORG, I know this is kind of stooping to their level, but they commit genocide everyday. I don't think anyone is going to care much if the Borg get taken down a peg or two.
High Treason suggests that she was somehow damaging the Federation and/or Starfleet by doing what she did. In point of fact, that timeline continued without her and she created a new one where Voyager made it back with all hands. There was no High Treason involved.
You've got to remember, Time Travel isn't an either/or scenario. If you go back in time and kill Hitler, then there is at least one possible future where you miss, one where his minions do worse atrocities, and a myriad of other possibilities that could very likely turn out worse that what has come about. BUT, it also doesn't eliminate the future you came from, we'd continue on without you, but you could never return to this precise timeline. You would be forced into whatever timeline developed as a result of your actions in the past. So, from a certain point of view, the past is as malleable as the future to someone willing to live with the consequences, as Janeway was.
. If you go back in time and kill Hitler, then there is at least one possible future where you miss, one where his minions do worse atrocities, and a myriad of other possibilities that could very likely turn out worse that what has come about. BUT, it also doesn't eliminate the future you came from, we'd continue on without you, but you could never return to this precise timeline. You would be forced into whatever timeline developed as a result of your actions in the past. So, from a certain point of view, the past is as malleable as the future to someone willing to live with the consequences, as Janeway was.
Sliders spring to mind
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Did we watch the same star trek? Kirk constantly broke Starfleet regulations and he ended up being an admiral. Benjamin Sisko was a conspirator and accomplice in the assassination of a Romulation Senator and he ended up being an Admiral. Picard murdered many starfleet officers when he became part of the collective, yet he took up the captain's chair once again after being freed. Umm, what star trek were you watching?
He never did, but because it was a lot of rambling most people chose to ignore that faulty remark.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I fully agree with the person who started this thread. Janeway justified her actions by saying "we know what will happen if we do nothing" (which meant the death of Seven, Chakotay and several other crew members and the mental decline of Tuvok). This comment alone shows she didn't consider the possible negative outcomes for a moment.
Yes, she saved some lives. But how many other people were never born because Voyager returned ealier, how many species have not been met that could have been of major influence on the Federation as a whole?
Archer asked Vosk 'who decides what changes need to be made?'. With Janeway, it seems she simply thought the answer was: 'me'.
When faced with the forced relocation of the Baku, Picard asked: "who the hell are we to determine the next course of evolution for these people?" Apparantly, when we're talking about a forced relocation through time by changing history, Janeway just gets away with it.
It's strange anyway. In the second episode, she's willing to let her crew travel for decades through the galaxy to save some Ocampa who probably ended up to be slaughtered by the Kazon anyway after Voyager left, as they never learned to defend themselves. However, when she gets tired of the journey, she seems to be willing to sacrifice the entire quadrant to get home earlier (or cut a few years off the journey like when she negotiated with the Borg for safe passage through their space).
Janeway's actions simply don't fit in with the rest of the story and she was irresponsible by giving priority to her own feelings for some of her crewmen rather than considering the whole picture.
I fully agree with the person who started this thread. Janeway justified her actions by saying "we know what will happen if we do nothing" (which meant the death of Seven, Chakotay and several other crew members and the mental decline of Tuvok). This comment alone shows she didn't consider the possible negative outcomes for a moment.
Yes, she saved some lives. But how many other people were never born because Voyager returned ealier, how many species have not been met that could have been of major influence on the Federation as a whole?
Archer asked Vosk 'who decides what changes need to be made?'. With Janeway, it seems she simply thought the answer was: 'me'.
When faced with the forced relocation of the Baku, Picard asked: "who the hell are we to determine the next course of evolution for these people?" Apparantly, when we're talking about a forced relocation through time by changing history, Janeway just gets away with it.
It's strange anyway. In the second episode, she's willing to let her crew travel for decades through the galaxy to save some Ocampa who probably ended up to be slaughtered by the Kazon anyway after Voyager left, as they never learned to defend themselves. However, when she gets tired of the journey, she seems to be willing to sacrifice the entire quadrant to get home earlier (or cut a few years off the journey like when she negotiated with the Borg for safe passage through their space).
Janeway's actions simply don't fit in with the rest of the story and she was irresponsible by giving priority to her own feelings for some of her crewmen rather than considering the whole picture.
I guess it was ok with the temporal police as well. So many possibilities so many possible futures, I might dig up my old sliders collection for lolz
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Here's why:
- I don't like Janeway. Women should not be Captains.
lol
Borg genocide? it's THE Borg. A singular entity. A singular malevolent entity. A singular malevolent entity, which was the aggressor in the scenario you reference. That's like claiming you are guilty of genocide because you wounded your attacker, killing millions of their cells.
Time travel violation? Apparently the time cops don't think so. Else they'd be setting the timeline right. They've had plenty of time to do it.
High treason? lol. Get real. (I mean that in the wholly techno-fantasy-real way that is Star Trek, obviously.)
Borg genocide? it's THE Borg. A singular entity. A singular malevolent entity. A singular malevolent entity, which was the aggressor in the scenario you reference. That's like claiming you are guilty of genocide because you wounded your attacker, killing millions of their cells.
Time travel violation? Apparently the time cops don't think so. Else they'd be setting the timeline right. They've had plenty of time to do it.
High treason? lol. Get real. (I mean that in the wholly techno-fantasy-real way that is Star Trek, obviously.)
Yeah, it's the Borg. Heck, even at the end of Endgame when the single Sphere came through the order was given to "fire" even before the Borg said anything. No one was waiting to see if these were friendly Borg. Starfleet knows what the Borg are: a virus bent on destruction in a humanoid forum.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I fully agree with the person who started this thread. Janeway justified her actions by saying "we know what will happen if we do nothing" (which meant the death of Seven, Chakotay and several other crew members and the mental decline of Tuvok). This comment alone shows she didn't consider the possible negative outcomes for a moment.
Yes, she saved some lives. But how many other people were never born because Voyager returned ealier, how many species have not been met that could have been of major influence on the Federation as a whole?
Archer asked Vosk 'who decides what changes need to be made?'. With Janeway, it seems she simply thought the answer was: 'me'.
When faced with the forced relocation of the Baku, Picard asked: "who the hell are we to determine the next course of evolution for these people?" Apparantly, when we're talking about a forced relocation through time by changing history, Janeway just gets away with it.
It's strange anyway. In the second episode, she's willing to let her crew travel for decades through the galaxy to save some Ocampa who probably ended up to be slaughtered by the Kazon anyway after Voyager left, as they never learned to defend themselves. However, when she gets tired of the journey, she seems to be willing to sacrifice the entire quadrant to get home earlier (or cut a few years off the journey like when she negotiated with the Borg for safe passage through their space).
Janeway's actions simply don't fit in with the rest of the story and she was irresponsible by giving priority to her own feelings for some of her crewmen rather than considering the whole picture.
When people get old, they reflect on the regrets of the past. So if someone had the chance to get rid of some of their regrets, then they would at least try to do it. Janeway destroying the array was an ethical decision. If they used it to get back home their wouldn't be a Voyager series and the Kazon using the array would have devastated that area of space not just the Ocampa. Janeway also had the duty to her crew to get them back to their families as soon as possible. There were not many events where she could get back home quickly. She asked Captain Braxton to get them home, but it violated the Temporal Prime Directive and Q offered to take them back as part of a deal, but that was another ethical decision that she couldn't accept. So we can surmise that as long as a method became available that took the Voyager crew back home quickly without resulting in a ethical problem, then Janeway would take it.
Killing the Borg is not genocide. It is pest control. The Transwarp Hub allowed the Borg to destroy thousands of worlds. Destroying the Transwarp Hub and dealing a crippling blow to the Borg to save billions of people from assimilation and getting home quickly was just too good of a deal for Janeway to pass up. So not going through the Transwarp Hub and destroying it was an ethical decision that Janeway couldn't pass up. As the older Janeway said, they didn't know about the Transwarp Hub until much later so the older Janeway couldn't have used it.
Comments
You are right and wrong.
Yes, Ablative Armor existed long ago, and was firsted used on the Defiant.
However, you are mistaking "Ablative Shields" with the Ablative Generator.
Long time Suri!
Yeah, my guess is that Janeway was so lauded as a Hero (like when the Federation was celebrating the 20th year of Voyager's return) that the Federation Council had no choice but to look the other way. So they likely promoted her to Admiral to make them look good in the eyes of the public, but gave her that deskjob in Nemesis so she wouldn't cause anymore trouble. :P
I disagree with this, because it would be really hard to explain the Ablative Hull Generators and the remaining Transphasic Torpedoes to get past the Borg Armada.
They likely couldn't press charges since it was Admiral Janeway that committed the crimes, and they couldn't prosecute Captain Janeway for something she didn't do. Now the crimes she committed prior to then, probably got swept under the rug, since they likely think "eh they are on the other side of the galaxy, water under the bridge".
My character Tsin'xing
Maybe they just didn't like the borg. Hell Q could have thrown in a spanner for lolz
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Indeed, this is the problem with the OPs thesis.
The point being, if this timeline was wrong it would never have happened.
Unless..............................................
....................perhaps Janeway's actions have created a timeline where the Temporal Police have either been defeated or never created.
Thing is, we'll never know. This is the timeline we're in and to judge it by the standards of another timeline is to like asking a beachball to write an essay using The Empire State Building on Acid, describing the smell of twelve.
She didn't even plan on destroying the transwarp hub she only cared about getting voyager home and nothing else. That if nothing else proves that she didn't want to destroy the borg as a whole and she didn't. when they went through with younger Janeways plan to destroy that transwarp hub it's because it posed a threat to the federation with it's opening leading right to sector 001 in spitting range of earth. it was also shown in many trek episodes that there were many transwarp hubs in use, so while yes the borg were crippled for a short time by no means were they exterminated.
[/SIGPIC]
However the fact Future Janeway appeared gave the Borg a huge advantage in assimilating and adapting the future tech. Looking at the books, it took a hugh KDF fleet to fire their whole arsenal of Transphasics to just win one battle with thousands of torps thrown. They had to fire at the same time and at teh same time limit it before hand while the war with the borg was on as they feared they would adapt too quickly.
But what is known is that future factions tend to leave the feds alone until POST borg era. Maybe Daniels and co thought this was an acceptable timeline.
On another note, why did they not do something about Nero, he completely changed history by being in a place he wasn't supposed to be albeit not through his own time jumping tech, which is probably why he wasn't insta vaped.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
As for the time cops, they don't interfere unless time is unfolding differently than it should have. The fact that they didn't means that what we saw was what was supposed to happen.
Is it me, or has the the word "ablative" apparently been turned into the magic keyword in Star Trek for "really really tough armor?" It strikes me as being something along those lines, and doesn't really seem to be very consistent with what ablative actually means. Not the least of which that the very nature of the armor means it's only good for so much use.
I'm inclined to agree with this. Janeway was far too popular to prosecute - it would be an utter PR nightmare beyond words in so many ways. So essentially promoting her to a safe position was the best thing they could do. I kind of wonder what'd happen with her long-term, however, considering this tidbit - I'd guess it wouldn't take too long for her to realize she's been promoted to a tiny corner where all she can do is terrorize the unfortunate ensigns that act as her lackeys.
Do we really need to go there? I think not.
From what I understood, the armor works like it's name implies. In exchange of reducing the effects of energy weapons, pieces of the armor break off in a reactive process. Which with the Borg, it makes it harder for their Tractor Beams to get a good hold since the armor is basically flaking off.
Well in canon she was last in a desk job at SFHQ, but in STO lore and some of the novels, she got back into a starship. Now if she makes a reappearance in an upcoming story, that's a possibility given we might be heading into the Delta Quadrant soon.
According to the first Department of Temporal Investigations novel, the Temporal factions have called a ceasefire between the time the Federation was created and the Borg were removed from the Galaxy. It basically stated that there would be no civilization capable of Time Travel if the Borg in its current form were still around in a few hundred years. So technology that came from the future and dealt with defeating the Borg would be ignored by Temporal Organizations. As long as Empires used the Transphasic Torpedoes on the Borg and nothing else, then the Temporal Organizations are perfectly fine with people TRIBBLE around with time travel. As long as it is not a major change, then they are perfectly fine with it.
My character Tsin'xing
The irony is the borg weren't defeated by anyone, rather they simply were liberated by their orginal creator and went away with some other ancient race which they orginated from.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
No - 10 words.
It is doubtful that all the Borg left with the Caeliar. Seven of Nine was left behind or decided to stay. The saddest thing is that this is not the biggest WTF moment in recent Star Trek novels. The Omega Continuum has to take the prize for that or members of Voyager deciding to go back to the Delta Quadrant.
system Lord Baal is dead
He did not change anything, he created a new and entirely separate timeline.
The storyline to get voyager home was VOTED ON BY THE STAR TREK FANS. the star trek magazine did a poll on behalf of the people that make star trek on if they want voyager to be sent home at the end of the then current series or if to keep them in the alpha quadrant.
The fans voted YES to sending the crew home. the following magazine had a poll for the species and everyone voted Borg.
So that address the so called Star Trek philosophy (which by the way doesn't exist)
The temporal prime directive was addressed within the episode Endgame, if you had bothered to watch the episode you would hear both janeways debating it.
The issue of gencodie doe not come into this episode and is not relevant seen as the borg commit genocide on a daily basis. also janeway did NOT commit genocide. By destroying the hub and the queen this left the remaining borg to regain their individuality. the only problem is that star fleet is not in the delta quadrant so cannot help the survivors.
Also high treason is not relvant in this episode due to it been the FUTURE janeway going back in time.Additionally you cannot charge someone with treason who is trying to get their crew home. janeway did NOT steal the technology to hand over to the borg. she took it to give to her past self. So again your statement is irrelevant. and your suggestions stupid and baseless. also if you had any common sense about you you would have read the game description, this star trek universe is based in the 25th century. janeway will either be dead from old age or a retired admiral. so next time do your research instead of creating a useless thread.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~BranFlakes
It would not leave the remaining Borg to regain their individuality.
At least two other queens were killed between Janeway and Picard, and it's not even clear if the second queen Janeway encounters several times after killing her first is even the same one each time. In the first case we see a localized disruption of the collective but not a return to individuality, and in the second case we don't even see that.
And the hub is one of six such hubs the Borg have constructed (and most distressingly only four of them appear on their own map of this galaxy). There are five left, at least two of them closer to Federation space than that one.
Even future-Janeway's pathogen was not a permanent disruption of the collective, one ship was able to adapt within minutes, the rest of the collective would have followed in short order. Nothing either Janeway did was going to be any more than a temporary inconvenience to the collective - they were already finding ways around the armor (the last sphere did more damage than all the cubes before it), the queen knew they could adapt to the torpedoes but not before Voyager destroyed many cubes and possibly the entire hub, and everything else was only a temporary disruption. That's all they needed.
Point by point:
Temporal Prime Directive suggests she had a choice. In the "original" future, the Borg are most likely gone, thanks to Janeways tech. Or at least a minor threat. That timeline continued after Adr. Janeways departure. No specific damage was done to the timeline other than getting Voyager home. The Borg were still reduced to a minor threat and this time everyone lived. If it had been a horrible, universe ending threat, don't you think the Relativity would have done something about it?
Genocide; It's not genocide unless you completely or nearly completely exterminate an entire race and culture. As the Borg are still around, assimilating stuff and making a pest of themselves, this argument is invalidated. Also, it's the BORG, I know this is kind of stooping to their level, but they commit genocide everyday. I don't think anyone is going to care much if the Borg get taken down a peg or two.
High Treason suggests that she was somehow damaging the Federation and/or Starfleet by doing what she did. In point of fact, that timeline continued without her and she created a new one where Voyager made it back with all hands. There was no High Treason involved.
You've got to remember, Time Travel isn't an either/or scenario. If you go back in time and kill Hitler, then there is at least one possible future where you miss, one where his minions do worse atrocities, and a myriad of other possibilities that could very likely turn out worse that what has come about. BUT, it also doesn't eliminate the future you came from, we'd continue on without you, but you could never return to this precise timeline. You would be forced into whatever timeline developed as a result of your actions in the past. So, from a certain point of view, the past is as malleable as the future to someone willing to live with the consequences, as Janeway was.
And what a wonderful thing it was, too! :cool:
Sliders spring to mind
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
When did Sisko become an admiral?
He never did, but because it was a lot of rambling most people chose to ignore that faulty remark.
Yes, she saved some lives. But how many other people were never born because Voyager returned ealier, how many species have not been met that could have been of major influence on the Federation as a whole?
Archer asked Vosk 'who decides what changes need to be made?'. With Janeway, it seems she simply thought the answer was: 'me'.
When faced with the forced relocation of the Baku, Picard asked: "who the hell are we to determine the next course of evolution for these people?" Apparantly, when we're talking about a forced relocation through time by changing history, Janeway just gets away with it.
It's strange anyway. In the second episode, she's willing to let her crew travel for decades through the galaxy to save some Ocampa who probably ended up to be slaughtered by the Kazon anyway after Voyager left, as they never learned to defend themselves. However, when she gets tired of the journey, she seems to be willing to sacrifice the entire quadrant to get home earlier (or cut a few years off the journey like when she negotiated with the Borg for safe passage through their space).
Janeway's actions simply don't fit in with the rest of the story and she was irresponsible by giving priority to her own feelings for some of her crewmen rather than considering the whole picture.
I guess it was ok with the temporal police as well. So many possibilities so many possible futures, I might dig up my old sliders collection for lolz
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
lol
Borg genocide? it's THE Borg. A singular entity. A singular malevolent entity. A singular malevolent entity, which was the aggressor in the scenario you reference. That's like claiming you are guilty of genocide because you wounded your attacker, killing millions of their cells.
Time travel violation? Apparently the time cops don't think so. Else they'd be setting the timeline right. They've had plenty of time to do it.
High treason? lol. Get real. (I mean that in the wholly techno-fantasy-real way that is Star Trek, obviously.)
When people get old, they reflect on the regrets of the past. So if someone had the chance to get rid of some of their regrets, then they would at least try to do it. Janeway destroying the array was an ethical decision. If they used it to get back home their wouldn't be a Voyager series and the Kazon using the array would have devastated that area of space not just the Ocampa. Janeway also had the duty to her crew to get them back to their families as soon as possible. There were not many events where she could get back home quickly. She asked Captain Braxton to get them home, but it violated the Temporal Prime Directive and Q offered to take them back as part of a deal, but that was another ethical decision that she couldn't accept. So we can surmise that as long as a method became available that took the Voyager crew back home quickly without resulting in a ethical problem, then Janeway would take it.
Killing the Borg is not genocide. It is pest control. The Transwarp Hub allowed the Borg to destroy thousands of worlds. Destroying the Transwarp Hub and dealing a crippling blow to the Borg to save billions of people from assimilation and getting home quickly was just too good of a deal for Janeway to pass up. So not going through the Transwarp Hub and destroying it was an ethical decision that Janeway couldn't pass up. As the older Janeway said, they didn't know about the Transwarp Hub until much later so the older Janeway couldn't have used it.
Picard actually did commit genocide. At Wolf 359. But you really kind of gloss over that. For whatever reason.
Still, in terms of what Janeway did, I think I'm going to let House Greyjoy of the Iron Islands rule on that.
The hive mind collctive space zombies that are The Borg?
"What is dead may never die!"
So nope, no genocide.
In regards to the Temporal Prime Directive, I suggest we let Gabriel Bell make the ruling on that one.
Mr. Bell will get back to us with his decision.