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Season 8 and the ending of Voyager *spoiler*
vocmcp
Member Posts: 1,134 Arc User
I hope it's not too late for this but I'd like to suggest avoiding some certain Voyager storyline elements in Season 8 or addressing them in a very specific way.
We all know that Janeway blew up Millions of Borg in order to get home. Movie wise I loved the ending. The uber Voyager eating through Borg was a stunning beauty. Trek wise it's the most horrible thing anyone could have done to the Star Trek philosophy.
Here's why:
- Temporal prime directive: In order to get home Janeway altered the timeline which is a blatant violation of the temporal directive. Even more so she did so for nothing but personal gain. While you could argue about 150 people benefiting of this, which is still nothing, she basically did it for Tuvok not to go crazy and for Chakotay to keep on dating his drone.
- Genocide: Janeways actions killed millions of Borg in the process. This nothing short of Genocide. While you can see the Borg with mixed feelings and you could argue that she saved millions of other worlds I would postulate that with all the knowledge they had they could have attempted to actually free those drones from the collective. This would have been the proper Starfleet way.
- High treason: If things had gone wrong the Borg would have been delivered cutting edge technology by Janeway that would have made them even more powerful. This includes powerful torpedos, impenetrable armor and worse a device that would allow to travel through time. Even if that device had been destroyed the Queen would still have found information in Janeways brain. As a matter of fact it could even be that the Queen was able to transmit some of the information gained by assimilating Janeway to other Borg as well (and not just that one single cube at the end).
For all these reasons Janeway should have been court martialed, demoted and kicked out of Starfleet with no honors. Instead she was promoted to Admiral.
Given these issues I'd like to make the following suggestions for Season 8:
- Either discuss the Voyager ending very critically with Janeway having been forced to leave Starfleet
- or do not make any reference to Janeway and her decisions at all. Just ignore her and the voyager ending completely. Voyager is just back, but that's it.
All in all, I'd like to ask you (Cryptic) not to glorify Janeway and the choices she made. This has no place in a universe adhering to Starfleet principles.
We all know that Janeway blew up Millions of Borg in order to get home. Movie wise I loved the ending. The uber Voyager eating through Borg was a stunning beauty. Trek wise it's the most horrible thing anyone could have done to the Star Trek philosophy.
Here's why:
- Temporal prime directive: In order to get home Janeway altered the timeline which is a blatant violation of the temporal directive. Even more so she did so for nothing but personal gain. While you could argue about 150 people benefiting of this, which is still nothing, she basically did it for Tuvok not to go crazy and for Chakotay to keep on dating his drone.
- Genocide: Janeways actions killed millions of Borg in the process. This nothing short of Genocide. While you can see the Borg with mixed feelings and you could argue that she saved millions of other worlds I would postulate that with all the knowledge they had they could have attempted to actually free those drones from the collective. This would have been the proper Starfleet way.
- High treason: If things had gone wrong the Borg would have been delivered cutting edge technology by Janeway that would have made them even more powerful. This includes powerful torpedos, impenetrable armor and worse a device that would allow to travel through time. Even if that device had been destroyed the Queen would still have found information in Janeways brain. As a matter of fact it could even be that the Queen was able to transmit some of the information gained by assimilating Janeway to other Borg as well (and not just that one single cube at the end).
For all these reasons Janeway should have been court martialed, demoted and kicked out of Starfleet with no honors. Instead she was promoted to Admiral.
Given these issues I'd like to make the following suggestions for Season 8:
- Either discuss the Voyager ending very critically with Janeway having been forced to leave Starfleet
- or do not make any reference to Janeway and her decisions at all. Just ignore her and the voyager ending completely. Voyager is just back, but that's it.
All in all, I'd like to ask you (Cryptic) not to glorify Janeway and the choices she made. This has no place in a universe adhering to Starfleet principles.
Post edited by vocmcp on
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Comments
And as the Ablative Armor is in game, and as part of the game premise of why Starfleet does so well against the Borg is due to the future tech Janeway gives Starfleet it would seem someone pointless to over look it.
system Lord Baal is dead
In the path to 2409. she is onboard another ship investigating the Hobus star explosion.
Did we watch the same star trek? Kirk constantly broke Starfleet regulations and he ended up being an admiral. Benjamin Sisko was a conspirator and accomplice in the assassination of a Romulation Senator and he ended up being an Admiral. Picard murdered many starfleet officers when he became part of the collective, yet he took up the captain's chair once again after being freed. Umm, what star trek were you watching?
very much this^^^^^^ oh lets talk about the time sisko told the bajoran's not to join Starfleet think they for got that one to
system Lord Baal is dead
Well I don't think those things were quite as bad as on Janeways scale. Furthermore it was Garak killing the Senator even if Sisko had his part in it. And Picard wasn't quite himself as Borg wasn't he?
there is no if about it he new it and told no one why do you think he beat the hek out of him in his shop at the end of the EP and guess what still told no one we have names for ppl like that......hmmmm let me think what they could be and I will get back to you :rolleyes:
system Lord Baal is dead
typical post here here from janeway haters
system Lord Baal is dead
As for genocide, Starfleet established when they reprimanded Picard for not deploying his fractal virus that genocide against the Borg was not just condoned, but standing order should the opportunity arise again. There is nothing to suggest Janeway could have freed those millions - she only managed to free one, with multiple circumstances in her favor and still a huge amount of difficulty. The sphere that was freed in Unimatrix Zero had even more circumstances in its favor (most of which were destroyed in that episode), and was not freed by Janeway.
As someone once pointed out to me, Voyager only makes sense if you consider Janeway to be the villain of the show.
you hated her I liked her as did the others that keep that show on the air for 7 years
system Lord Baal is dead
Or if you assume she was not a fit captain for the situation.
Consider the setup: She got a ship full of untested experimental equipment, without conventional backups, with insufficient supply, without a full load of torpedoes. She was never meant to be out there for very long.
And she was being sent to deal with the Maquis, which in Starfleet terms is a freebie. They're branded as terrorists, so if things go wrong and she kills a bunch of them it isn't going to win them a lot of sympathy, the Cardassians want to wipe them out anyway, and they're woefully underequipped to deal with a proper starship from either side of the DMZ.
This is a mission that even if she screws up, she'll probably bring the ship and the crew (possibly except Tuvok) back, and which will probably not spiral into an incident. The sort of mission it's ok to send a bad captain on. Think of it like an admiral: The only way she could possibly TRIBBLE this mission up is if an alien demigod blasted her across the galaxy... and what are the chances of THAT happening?
... Oh.
Voyager, along with DS9, was my favorite show of the Trek series. That doesn't make the ending any better. And now stop trolling this thread.
point this point that all any one says around here pointpointpointpointpointpointpointpointpointpointpoint who has the <<<biger>>> point!!! :P
system Lord Baal is dead
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
If I recall correctly Picard was not very happy with these instructions though. I bet he'd have disobeyed if he had been offered a second chance. I believe Nechayev's order was against the values of Starfleet. Even more so since future Janeway brought new technology that could have helped much in freeing mass amounts of Borg instead of killing them.
When in their collective form, there are not billions of 'Borg'. There are billions of drones who are part of one entity. No warfare against the Borg can be considered genocide. Until they are separated from the collective, a drone has no individuality.
Treason indicates betrayal. Even if the plan is unwise, that plan does not indicate treason. Also, if the level of confidence in the technology is high enough, it may not even be unwise.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I want to start a new drinking game any time you see some one use the word <<<point>>> on here go take a shot 100$ says you be plastered with in 2 minutes if not less
system Lord Baal is dead
Yes, I like this. this is the direction we should be going.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
He was not happy about them, and if that second chance had come before Generations I don't think he would have taken it either. If it came after Generations, he would have taken it, gone back in time, taken it again, and then made out with a guest star on a mountain of broken Borg, because I think something in his brain broke, either when the Enterprise-D was lost or when the Borg returned in First Contact.
That's Picard, though. He's a statesman and a diplomat, and unique among the Star Trek captains. I believe Kirk would have taken the opportunity, even if doing so was moral agony to him. Sisko would have taken that opportunity even if it meant burning half the galaxy first, because this was his nightmare made flesh. The man built a ship as his personal Avatar of Vengeance and sought to reforge Starfleet into his weapon against the Borg, after all. Janeway would have taken it unless not taking it offered some hope of getting her crew home - that Ahab had two whales and getting home was the biggest.
But it was still a standing order. If you disobey an order like that, you better have some spectacular justification. But if you follow it, even if that spectacular justification might be there (and in this case it's based on hypothetical future events and not immediate actions) you're following orders and diminishing the Borg threat, the act is its own justification.
- Present Janeway used the technology given to her to alter the timeline => violation of temporal directive
- Very interesting definition concerning genocide. I don't agree with it. Individuality is not a requirement for it.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy