The foundational mechanics do not scale very well.
If the level cap was 40 and Tier 4 ships were as far as you could go half of the problems would disappear with the original design. If the original mechanics all actually worked properly (crew I'm looking at you) several other problems would vanish. Finally if they would have truely fixed some of the bad mechanics instead of knee-jerking fixes that create more problems (your turn Tac Team) well yeah.
edit: Meh, I'm not going to get into arguing which types of games are better - everybody has their preferences - but if you want to play X, then play X - don't try to make Y and Z into X.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I have. But that would seemingly require my to fly from that Oversized throne room, i mean bridge. Instead im 3rd personing my ship.
But as an avid PvE'er i take time and fiddle constantly with my ships and builds. and optimized for PvE is getting ROFLSTOMPED hard in PvP. The other is not true, many PvE builds can be used in PvE rather easily.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have. But that would seemingly require my to fly from that Oversized throne room, i mean bridge. Instead im 3rd personing my ship.
But as an avid PvE'er i take time and fiddle constantly with my ships and builds. and optimized for PvE is getting ROFLSTOMPED hard in PvP. The other is not true, many PvE builds can be used in PvE rather easily.
I actually like the old days of Star trek Bridge Commander and Starfleet command
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
edit: Meh, I'm not going to get into arguing which types of games are better - everybody has their preferences - but if you want to play X, then play X - don't try to make Y and Z into X.
I have to agree with this in principle.
Not that STO is perfect, but it will never be Mass Effect or XCom or StarCraft or EvE and lobbying for it to become something like those simply isn't going to work.
It's also never quite going to be "Sims in Space" or "Frontier", thank goodness.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
doent need to become something like those to borrow gui and mechanical elements from those sources to get around that obtrusive powers table and goddawful 90s interface. at least to the point i can play sto's content instead of play rock-a-by-power-table.
Perhaps you could elaborate on this...
...to me, it's a common interface because of the amount of information a player has available to them (as is, I wish more of the info could be displayed) as well as the abilities that a player can use.
Personally, I'd prefer the ability to split things out more - and - to make the 4th/5th bar Horizontal instead of Vertical...
...but I haven't really been able to get what you're saying.
The abilities are the problem in this context. I'd prefer we didnt have so many "special moves" that required UI elements, special activations, timing, knowledge of stacking buffs and debuffs, abilities that disable an ability, psuedo-macro languages, and so on. Besides, the whole metaphor is a holdover from dungeon crawling with a 12-sided die, and has only a small role in space combat. I dont want to play Mortal Kombat with my ship, I want to fly my ship and shoot my enemy.
The abilities are the problem in this context. I'd prefer we didnt have so many "special moves" that required UI elements, special activations, timing, knowledge of stacking buffs and debuffs, abilities that disable an ability, psuedo-macro languages, and so on. Besides, the whole metaphor is a holdover from dungeon crawling with a 12-sided die, and has only a small role in space combat. I dont want to play Mortal Kombat with my ship, I want to fly my ship and shoot my enemy.
STO doesn't even start to come near the potential complexity of combat that took place in the shows/movies...
A smaller quanity of active abilities that had more of an impact than they currently do I believe is what they are saying.
Really what is the point of buffs that have 100% uptime yet still require me to mash the button? Why do I want to have to slot 12 abilities when 4 of them are just two copies of the same ability? What, from a gameplay stance, is gained from those types of mechanics?
Especially when using my 'tribal knowledge' so to speak I can make a single keybind on my spacebar to mash to my hearts delight and still perform better (in PvE at least) than a player with a high skill level but lacking that knowledge and flying a poor build.
The simple fact that one keybind (shield distribution to spacebar) can typically double a players survivability is simply ludicrous!
Why do I want to have to slot 12 abilities when 4 of them are just two copies of the same ability? What, from a gameplay stance, is gained from those types of mechanics?
Variety. You don't have to do it that way. There are other options. If you remove that option, then you've removed those options.
Yes, 99.9% of the players may say do it X way...but that 0.1% might enjoy doing it a different way.
spam is not veriety.
in fact, that is the complete opposite to veriety, if you have to spam two coppies of the same ability to get the effect of one sustained ability than you have removed the ability to include more verity.
you are contradicting yourself.
I don't understand what's going on lately with people not reading. It's kind of getting frustrating and it's showing in my posts.
I said you have the option to do that...you have the option not to do that...thus, variety. Thus, no contradiction.
the game is mechanically stacked against anyone not using sustained buffs, hence so many people using 2 copies to maximise uptime.
to cover up the weakness of when the ability is not active.
Not everybody spams that has two copies of abilities. Some people carry a second ability, oh - I don't know - in case they get SNB'd to provide that coverage rather than just spamming them back to back.
all happy & dandy for you since playing click-a-button rather that the game seems to be what it is you want to do as you move your power trey around a map rather than your avatar.
that being what the game is now, and what you are arguing for.
I do think this game needs more on till off (toggled like with MES) but with emergency power to X and some other abilities like heavy/rapid fire on 1 vs AoE fire etc.
Maybe I could put this to bed now. The amounts of changes the devs would need to make to "fix" the game in your eyes skollulfr is akin to creating an entirely new game.
In other words what you're campaigning for is a from the ground up complete rework of the game and slapping a number 2 on the end. I think a dev explicitly stated there will be no STO2 for a long time.
If you want change you will have to do it within the realms of what we currently have. If not, well I'm sorry but sometimes you reach that point when playing an MMO or online game where it's heading in a different direction to how you want and you step back and either stop playing or you casually play it.
I do think this game needs more on till off (toggled like with MES) but with emergency power to X and some other abilities like heavy/rapid fire on 1 vs AoE fire etc.
Maybe I could put this to bed now. The amounts of changes the devs would need to make to "fix" the game in your eyes skollulfr is akin to creating an entirely new game.
In other words what you're campaigning for is a from the ground up complete rework of the game and slapping a number 2 on the end. I think a dev explicitly stated there will be no STO2 for a long time.
If you want change you will have to do it within the realms of what we currently have. If not, well I'm sorry but sometimes you reach that point when playing an MMO or online game where it's heading in a different direction to how you want and you step back and either stop playing or you casually play it.
I guess that's the thing. I've done my fair share of complaining about STO's mechanics (heh, likely more than my fair share) - but generally, I try to frame them in reference to other MMOs and try to keep most suggestions to things that wouldn't require a complete recode of the game.
Sure, there's things that I see as fundamental flaws in the game...but they still wouldn't require a completely new game - and in the end - it would still be a MMORPG.
And besides, we've had the posts from the devs on certain things that are well thought out, etc, etc, etc...but that it's unrealistic because of the sizes of the changes that would need to be made to accommodate certain things. Heh, that kind of knocked the wind out of me on many things...but it's true.
Having the option to severly gimp yourself without realizing it by making uninformed choices would not be called good design IMHO.
Limiting options because some of the playerbase might refuse to learn to play...irks me. What's wrong with learning to play?
If a player is unsure of something, there is a wealth of information available to them. Hell, you've provided a bunch of such information.
Cryptic has put unearthly effort into making the game something that folks can do almost anything and have a blast playing...if the player wants to kick it up a notch, the resources are there.
You've said that several times. I don't get it. It's the game we're playing. Again, if you don't want to play that kind of game...then don't. It's not elitism.
I'm picturing the following:
You're riding along in a luxury sedan, complaining that it's not a sports car.
You're watching a TV show, complaining that it's not another TV show.
You're eating steak at a restaurant, complaining that it's not sea bass.
You're out on a date with somebody, complaining that they're not somebody at the next table.
You're doing X, complaining that whatever X is - is wrong - it should be Y.
You're playing a MMORPG. It's not an Action MMO, it's not a MMOFPS, it's not a MMORTS, it's not an Adventure Game, it's not an Action RPG, it's not a Platformer, it's not a Racing Game, it's not a RTS, it's not a TBS, it's not a Card Game, it's not...etc, etc, etc...
...it's not elitism to say that X should be like X and if somebody prefers Y, then they should play Y.
edit: skollulfr, I've got to ask...are you mainly a console gamer?
Comments
If the level cap was 40 and Tier 4 ships were as far as you could go half of the problems would disappear with the original design. If the original mechanics all actually worked properly (crew I'm looking at you) several other problems would vanish. Finally if they would have truely fixed some of the bad mechanics instead of knee-jerking fixes that create more problems (your turn Tac Team) well yeah.
You ever watch youtube vids where the screen is so cluttered you cant even see the enemy ships? The player is flying the power tray, not the ship?
You ever watch an episode of Star Trek (any series) or any of the movies? Just saying.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Bridge
Precisely, Mai!
I have. But that would seemingly require my to fly from that Oversized throne room, i mean bridge. Instead im 3rd personing my ship.
But as an avid PvE'er i take time and fiddle constantly with my ships and builds. and optimized for PvE is getting ROFLSTOMPED hard in PvP. The other is not true, many PvE builds can be used in PvE rather easily.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I actually like the old days of Star trek Bridge Commander and Starfleet command
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
I have to agree with this in principle.
Not that STO is perfect, but it will never be Mass Effect or XCom or StarCraft or EvE and lobbying for it to become something like those simply isn't going to work.
It's also never quite going to be "Sims in Space" or "Frontier", thank goodness.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
sims in space with Star Trek (tm) artwork, and pokemon combat engine
Perhaps you could elaborate on this...
...to me, it's a common interface because of the amount of information a player has available to them (as is, I wish more of the info could be displayed) as well as the abilities that a player can use.
Personally, I'd prefer the ability to split things out more - and - to make the 4th/5th bar Horizontal instead of Vertical...
...but I haven't really been able to get what you're saying.
STO doesn't even start to come near the potential complexity of combat that took place in the shows/movies...
...and we're not flying starfighters.
Really what is the point of buffs that have 100% uptime yet still require me to mash the button? Why do I want to have to slot 12 abilities when 4 of them are just two copies of the same ability? What, from a gameplay stance, is gained from those types of mechanics?
Especially when using my 'tribal knowledge' so to speak I can make a single keybind on my spacebar to mash to my hearts delight and still perform better (in PvE at least) than a player with a high skill level but lacking that knowledge and flying a poor build.
The simple fact that one keybind (shield distribution to spacebar) can typically double a players survivability is simply ludicrous!
Variety. You don't have to do it that way. There are other options. If you remove that option, then you've removed those options.
Yes, 99.9% of the players may say do it X way...but that 0.1% might enjoy doing it a different way.
I don't understand what's going on lately with people not reading. It's kind of getting frustrating and it's showing in my posts.
I said you have the option to do that...you have the option not to do that...thus, variety. Thus, no contradiction.
Not having a particular choice does not remove other choices. That you like or dislike the choices has nothing to do with them being choices or not.
Not everybody spams that has two copies of abilities. Some people carry a second ability, oh - I don't know - in case they get SNB'd to provide that coverage rather than just spamming them back to back.
What's that? Another option? Curious...
In your opinion, because you feel you need to play a certain way...
...which mainly points to you.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Guide:_Keybinds
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6289221&postcount=6
So far, all I'm getting out of what you're saying here is the following:
You spamclick and wish you could toggle.
Reminds me of the guy that wanted autofire for BOFF abilities...are you that guy? I don't remember.
Maybe I could put this to bed now. The amounts of changes the devs would need to make to "fix" the game in your eyes skollulfr is akin to creating an entirely new game.
In other words what you're campaigning for is a from the ground up complete rework of the game and slapping a number 2 on the end. I think a dev explicitly stated there will be no STO2 for a long time.
If you want change you will have to do it within the realms of what we currently have. If not, well I'm sorry but sometimes you reach that point when playing an MMO or online game where it's heading in a different direction to how you want and you step back and either stop playing or you casually play it.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
I guess that's the thing. I've done my fair share of complaining about STO's mechanics (heh, likely more than my fair share) - but generally, I try to frame them in reference to other MMOs and try to keep most suggestions to things that wouldn't require a complete recode of the game.
Sure, there's things that I see as fundamental flaws in the game...but they still wouldn't require a completely new game - and in the end - it would still be a MMORPG.
And besides, we've had the posts from the devs on certain things that are well thought out, etc, etc, etc...but that it's unrealistic because of the sizes of the changes that would need to be made to accommodate certain things. Heh, that kind of knocked the wind out of me on many things...but it's true.
Limiting options because some of the playerbase might refuse to learn to play...irks me. What's wrong with learning to play?
If a player is unsure of something, there is a wealth of information available to them. Hell, you've provided a bunch of such information.
Cryptic has put unearthly effort into making the game something that folks can do almost anything and have a blast playing...if the player wants to kick it up a notch, the resources are there.
You've said that several times. I don't get it. It's the game we're playing. Again, if you don't want to play that kind of game...then don't. It's not elitism.
I'm picturing the following:
You're riding along in a luxury sedan, complaining that it's not a sports car.
You're watching a TV show, complaining that it's not another TV show.
You're eating steak at a restaurant, complaining that it's not sea bass.
You're out on a date with somebody, complaining that they're not somebody at the next table.
You're doing X, complaining that whatever X is - is wrong - it should be Y.
You're playing a MMORPG. It's not an Action MMO, it's not a MMOFPS, it's not a MMORTS, it's not an Adventure Game, it's not an Action RPG, it's not a Platformer, it's not a Racing Game, it's not a RTS, it's not a TBS, it's not a Card Game, it's not...etc, etc, etc...
...it's not elitism to say that X should be like X and if somebody prefers Y, then they should play Y.
edit: skollulfr, I've got to ask...are you mainly a console gamer?
Please dont.
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