There is more to the Gorn besides lumbering around and throwing rocks. The Mirror Universe episodes of "Enterprise" demonstrated that. Big Lizard was kicking Evil Archer's @ss.
There is more to the Gorn besides lumbering around and throwing rocks. The Mirror Universe episodes of "Enterprise" demonstrated that. Big Lizard was kicking Evil Archer's @ss.
Are you implying the Gorn do not use ranged weaponry? Since there is no evidence that they don't, and plenty of implications that they do. For example, when the survivors of Cestus III talk about the weapons the Gorn were using Do you remember "They were like phasers, only worse"?
Also, memory alpha states:
Gorn ground tactical units utilized powerful disruptors, capable of completely disintegrating targets at ranges of between 1,200 and 1,500 yards.
That doesn't sound like throwing rocks to me :P
Simply because I stumbled across it yesterday, I suggest you read this, if you haven't already. It seems to be a well researched (if unreferenced) compilation of knowledge on Gorn.
It details such things as their high intelligence, speed and agility. Again, it would be nice if it said where it came from, but the colour coding implies it's canon
___________________________ The day will not save them. And we own the night.
Are you implying the Gorn do not use ranged weaponry? Since there is no evidence that they don't, and plenty of implications that they do. For example, when the survivors of Cestus III talk about the weapons the Gorn were using Do you remember "They were like phasers, only worse"?
Also, memory alpha states:
Gorn ground tactical units utilized powerful disruptors, capable of completely disintegrating targets at ranges of between 1,200 and 1,500 yards.
That doesn't sound like throwing rocks to me :P
Simply because I stumbled across it yesterday, I suggest you read this, if you haven't already. It seems to be a well researched (if unreferenced) compilation of knowledge on Gorn.
It details such things as their high intelligence, speed and agility. Again, it would be nice if it said where it came from, but the colour coding implies it's canon
In other words basicly the same as what I stated on the previous page.
In spite of their massive bulk, the Gorn can move extremely quickly when they need to, much like terrestrial crocodilians. They will often lunge or sprint in combat, and are capable of accelerating from a standstill to over 50kph almost instantly. However, being cold-blooded, such action does sap their energy reserves considerably, and so if they will usually move much more slowly to conserve their strength for emergencies. This gives casual observers the illusion that they are by nature slow and lumbering. They are not. Over short distances and time intervals they are at least as fast and agile as any humanoid - comparable to linemen in the Human game of American Football.
Bold is what was marked as canon.
WTF is a "crocodilian"? anyway... A lack of stamina makes a poor fighter and linebackers are not the most agile of people and do not make a great fighter. Now an MMA fighter weighs in at half a linebacker and would clean a linebackers clock and be ready for the next linebacker unless said linebacker got a good hold on him. Kind of like say a feresan or a klingon being a more competant mellee fighter than a gorn.
But if they are like a crocodile in speed and agility then all anyone would have to do is avoid them for about a minute or less then the gorn would be useless for combat and a very easy target. Croc's rely on stealth and a quick and decisive sneak attack and do not have the stamina to chase down prey if the sneak attack fails, maybe 10 to 20 feet worth of chase until they are forced to give up and rest while waiting for the next prey to come get a drink. plenty of documentaries showing and explaining this.
Basicly STO has the gorn's combat ability set about right.
Another thought... If they are cold blooded where are the heat lamps or heating rocks in first city? i want to watch the gorn lay on the rocks under the lamps basking in the heat, take some pics to show the family back home...
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
In other words basicly the same as what I stated on the previous page.
Bold is what was marked as canon.
WTF is a "crocodilian"? anyway... A lack of stamina makes a poor fighter and linebackers are not the most agile of people and do not make a great fighter. Now an MMA fighter weighs in at half a linebacker and would clean a linebackers clock and be ready for the next linebacker unless said linebacker got a good hold on him. Kind of like say a feresan or a klingon being a more competant mellee fighter than a gorn.
But if they are like a crocodile in speed and agility then all anyone would have to do is avoid them for about a minute or less then the gorn would be useless for combat and a very easy target. Croc's rely on stealth and a quick and decisive sneak attack and do not have the stamina to chase down prey if the sneak attack fails, maybe 10 to 20 feet worth of chase until they are forced to give up and rest while waiting for the next prey to come get a drink. plenty of documentaries showing and explaining this.
Basicly STO has the gorn's combat ability set about right.
Another thought... If they are cold blooded where are the heat lamps or heating rocks in first city? i want to watch the gorn lay on the rocks under the lamps basking in the heat, take some pics to show the family back home...
Crocodilians are members of the order Crocodilia, which includes crocodiles, alligators, caimans and gharials.
When I was writing that passage you quoted from my Gorn RP guide I was attempting to reconcile what the two somewhat contradictory cannon depictions of the Gorn (the one Kirk fought and Slar) with their depiction in-game and what I know of large reptiles in the real world.
While its true that crocodiles lack the ability to sprint for long distances, this doesn't mean they lack the stamina to fight and grapple for hours on end. As I mentioned previously in this thread, they've been observed to engage in dominance battles that last until well after the sun goes down. (Although, when these battles do eventually end, they are usually to exhausted to move for several days.) Their limited sprint endurance probably has more to do with their bodily proportions (total mass versus leg muscle mass) and the fact that they've adapted pretty specifically to ambush other animals from the water.
Since the Gorn have evolved to be land predators and have more humanoid proportions, they would have to be able to chase down prey and I'd expect them to be pretty good at that.
As for basking spots in the First City, I'm sure there are a few places that cater to our needs, probably one or two of those doors in the back alleys. We just don't see the Gorn being Gorn, like we don't see the Orions being Orions, but we can assume that it all happens off the set.
EDIT: FYI the reason I didn't list my soft-canon/non-canon references in the "Introduction to the Gorn" guide is because a) there were a lot of them, b) I was drawing from my own notes and in some cases my memory of what I'd read and I didn't keep very close track of which book said what, and c) a lot of these sources were contradictory, forcing me to cherry-pick the bits that did not conflict with higher canon, which would have led to d) a very long list of annotated footnotes that I figured nobody would want to read or sift through in order to figure what I got right or wrong. So I went with the color-coding method instead, with the understanding that everything not in green (screen-canon) would be open for debate. And even some of the screen canon (like the writers of "Arena" scripting the Gorn's slow movement to account for the stuntman's limited mobility in the suit) is left somewhat debatable (especially in light of the radically different appearance in ENT: "In A Mirror Darkly")
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Crocodilians are members of the order Crocodilia, which includes crocodiles, alligators, caimans and gharials.
When I was writing that passage you quoted from my Gorn RP guide I was attempting to reconcile what the two somewhat contradictory cannon depictions of the Gorn (the one Kirk fought and Slar) with their depiction in-game and what I know of large reptiles in the real world.
While its true that crocodiles lack the ability to sprint for long distances, this doesn't mean they lack the stamina to fight and grapple for hours on end. As I mentioned previously in this thread, they've been observed to engage in dominance battles that last until well after the sun goes down. (Although, when these battles do eventually end, they are usually to exhausted to move for several days.) Their limited sprint endurance probably has more to do with their bodily proportions (total mass versus leg muscle mass) and the fact that they've adapted pretty specifically to ambush other animals from the water.
Since the Gorn have evolved to be land predators and have more humanoid proportions, they would have to be able to chase down prey and I'd expect them to be pretty good at that.
As for basking spots in the First City, I'm sure there are a few places that cater to our needs, probably one or two of those doors in the back alleys. We just don't see the Gorn being Gorn, like we don't see the Orions being Orions, but we can assume that it all happens off the set.
I agree. After all, Gorn are like Humans, just Reptilain, MUCH Stronger, More Endurable, More Stanima, AND Can Run As Fast or Faster Than Humans.
R'tolves Will Spread Thier Peace and Will Prevail Over the Hostiles Who Dare Hurt Such A Isolationist Consitutional Monarchy!
Are you implying the Gorn do not use ranged weaponry? Since there is no evidence that they don't, and plenty of implications that they do. For example, when the survivors of Cestus III talk about the weapons the Gorn were using Do you remember "They were like phasers, only worse"?
Also, memory alpha states:
Gorn ground tactical units utilized powerful disruptors, capable of completely disintegrating targets at ranges of between 1,200 and 1,500 yards.
That doesn't sound like throwing rocks to me :P
Simply because I stumbled across it yesterday, I suggest you read this, if you haven't already. It seems to be a well researched (if unreferenced) compilation of knowledge on Gorn.
It details such things as their high intelligence, speed and agility. Again, it would be nice if it said where it came from, but the colour coding implies it's canon
in THAT Case... Lets get Some GORN WEAPONS GORN RESTRICTED!
I always wanted to be on Qo'nos shooting from the Great Hall All The Way To The Bar, And Farther, To Do a "Safe" bar Fight....
Or.... even shoot from the bar and hit J'mpok XD
R'tolves Will Spread Thier Peace and Will Prevail Over the Hostiles Who Dare Hurt Such A Isolationist Consitutional Monarchy!
You know, there's nothing to say that the two canon gorn we've seen (the Captain from Arena and Slar) are the same species. Perhaps there's more than one variety of gorn. I mean, how many kinds of lizards exist on earth? Consider the differences between crocodiles and alligators...
There are many castes... but by NPC.... They are the "Warrior Caste"
Even if so... may I say again....
Gorn Can Pick Up 2,000+ Pound Boulders...
STO Says Cats, Orions, and Klingons can top that.
Gorn Are 2% Fat. 98% Muscle... And being 9ft Tall... And Great In Size... The "Fat" part is close to none noticeable.
Face it! Gorn are just nerfed! They are UN-canon... etc...
And guess what? Gorn castes are SOFT CANON AKA: Not True Canon! So As Much As I LOVE All Types of Gorn Canon... I want the pure breed Arena/Mirror Canon and GET TRUE CANONICAL!
R'tolves Will Spread Thier Peace and Will Prevail Over the Hostiles Who Dare Hurt Such A Isolationist Consitutional Monarchy!
Actually, the game isn't saying klingons and caitians can top the lifting power of a gorn. Damage bonuses don't equal strength. The increased damage values of klingons might represent greater aggressiveness, more precise attacks and training in melee combat. In the case of the cats, it might represent the claws (though gorn have those too).
And thats what I was trying to say, yes Gorn may have the physical power like a power lifter can lift extreme amounts they for all that strength do not make great fighters. physical strength does not equal fighting prowes, a body builder cannot beat a master swordsman unless the master swordsman makes a huge mistake like letting the body builder get ahold of him.
There is a reason all the best martial artist are not bodybuilder sized and there is a very good reason you wouldnt want to mess with any of them even if you are a meathead bodybuilder. The reason is the speed and agility required for fighting is lost when someone packs on that much muscle. Speed and agility adds the ability to dodge a slower attacker and to strike them twice as many times, and with mellee weapons that speed and agility is faster more efficiant kills.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
And thats what I was trying to say, yes Gorn may have the physical power like a power lifter can lift extreme amounts they for all that strength do not make great fighters. physical strength does not equal fighting prowes, a body builder cannot beat a master swordsman unless the master swordsman makes a huge mistake like letting the body builder get ahold of him.
There is a reason all the best martial artist are not bodybuilder sized and there is a very good reason you wouldnt want to mess with any of them even if you are a meathead bodybuilder. The reason is the speed and agility required for fighting is lost when someone packs on that much muscle. Speed and agility adds the ability to dodge a slower attacker and to strike them twice as many times, and with mellee weapons that speed and agility is faster more efficiant kills.
I don't think it's fair to compare a body builder to an armed martial artists. A better example would be to compare a professional weight lifter (not body builder) to an unarmed martial artist.
Yeah good idea. Make Gorn have superior strength and physical damage, but their only ranged attack is throwing a big rock that can be easily dodged 90% of the time. All the other races, (and even NPCs). just have to run or sprint to get out of range of the physical attacks. Also, the Gorn can be ripped to shreds with ranged weapons, regardless of how many extra hit points you give them. Being so slow they can never get into range to use their "mettle" attacks.
That works.
WTF is "mettle damage" anyway? I can't find any references to it anywhere.
I don't think it's fair to compare a body builder to an armed martial artists. A better example would be to compare a professional weight lifter (not body builder) to an unarmed martial artist.
There is no good unarmed combat in STO for anyone unless you are an idiot and enjoy headbutting. If there was good unarmed combat then Gorn would ofcourse be top dog... sorry lizard in it. We have armed combat in mellee and a bad joke for unarmed and natuaraly Gorn would not be the best at armed mellee combat because they would lack the speed and agility simply because of mass.
klink and andorians train in blade/mellee weapons from childhood till death, cats are natuaraly fast and agile and even a housecat can shred your arms if its pissed off and you dare pick it up... I can only imagine a pissed ferresian or caitian with a sword.
Gorn are more like big huge bulky weight lifters/body builders/pro wrestlers/line backers/power lifters unarmed combat pick you up and throw you after tying you into knots fighters. against a fast moving sharp blade from someone who has trained in the use of that blade since childhood... I wouldnt want to be the gorn. take the blades away and Gorn will win without even trying.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Actually, the game isn't saying klingons and caitians can top the lifting power of a gorn. Damage bonuses don't equal strength. The increased damage values of klingons might represent greater aggressiveness, more precise attacks and training in melee combat. In the case of the cats, it might represent the claws (though gorn have those too).
As many folk who are interested in such things can tell you, pound for pound the domestic house cat is one of the strongest and more dangerous animals. Not only are they strong, but they're more nimble than most and damn quick!
I think I've already mentioned it in this thread, but I'd like to see the various kitties get unique melee styles, with scratchy flurries and stuff!
Doing this for more races could be tricky, since most of them don't have anything distinctive. Sure, Vulcans and andorians have their own martial arts, Klingons apparently have a distinctive fighting style (always looked like "drunk amateur" style to me)...
I'd also like it if you could choose which set of martial arts you go for...
___________________________ The day will not save them. And we own the night.
IMHO.... Gorn need a buff. Melee seems completely drained... being that is all they are based on. SURE they aren't nimble in some cases... but Gorn are neither powerful, nor tanky in this game. The fact they are weaker than most any other race in melee, and even resistance... it is that that leads me to say they need a buff. They are just in need of a re-vamp.
Hence, just making them like NPCs Holdch will make things easier, but "harder."
I don't care.
1. Give a Melee Buff
2. Make then "Arena/Holdch/Raw'qu" Gorn
3. More Resistance?
4. ?
R'tolves Will Spread Thier Peace and Will Prevail Over the Hostiles Who Dare Hurt Such A Isolationist Consitutional Monarchy!
Melee seems completely drained... being that is all they are based on. SURE they aren't nimble in some cases... but Gorn are neither powerful, nor tanky in this game. The fact they are weaker than most any other race in melee, and even resistance... it is that that leads me to say they need a buff.
Okay, going purely by Racial traits, Potential Punching Power:
Gorn:
+17.5% bonus to Melee Damage
15% chance to knock down the target of your melee attacks. Nausicaan
15% bonus to Melee damage
15% chance to knock down the target of your melee attacks. Orion (male):
+15% Physical Damage
15% chance: to target: Knocks back +0.66 meters (Only affects certain things) Klingons
+15% Physical Damage Ferasan:
+5% Damage with Melee Attacks (plus all the stealthy boosts to melee, if you happen to be sneaky)
As you can see, by base attributes: Gorn easily come out on top.Yes, Ferasans can spend an extra trait to get an extra bonus. But guess what, that uses up a trait slot! Who'd have thunk it?
Gorn also have access to "Bite" which is awesome! Yes, Ferasans have pounce, but in my experience, that's not as useful.
Now, the resistances for you tanky folk:
Gorn:
+5 Physical Damage Resistance Rating
+5 All Energy Damage Resistance Rating
+10 Plasma Damage Resistance Rating
+25 Fire Damage Resistance Rating Klingon
+5 All Damage Resistance Rating
Wow, once again: Gorn easily come out on top. Although with only one race competing (unless you count Orions placate resistance), that's no surprise.
Hence, just making them like NPCs Holdch will make things easier, but "harder."
I'd guess this would instantly make half the Gorn captains regret their character choice, or perhaps abandon it all together.
Please note: I make no claims that the "half" mentioned above is accurate, it is simply a phrase!
(just in case it isn't obvious, that was directed at a few people on this site who just leap on any vague allusion to numbers and demand empirical evidence. Despite the lack of implication that there should be any...
1) I'm all for making gorn better, but since they'r already Best, balance must be considered. Can't have our little 'zillas being overpowered now, can we
2) This would take care of the Over-powered thing, putting them at a significant disadvantage to everyone else in the game.
3) Again, they're already better than everyone at this. They may not be to the level you think they should canonically, but as much as accuracy is appreciated: Balance is still more important.
Seriously, Gorn are wonderful, and I think they deserve all the cookies in the universe, but that's not a valid justification for requesting/expecting them to be made overpowered. You can't just decide "Oh this species should get +250% melee damage, and +99 to all resistances"
Yes, tossing puny humies around like rag dolls and shrugging off phaser shots as if they're flashlights may make you feel good, but it's game breaking and non-canonical. Consider in the 2 on-screen gorn fights: The 2 humans didn't manage to inflict any real damage to their lizard pals, but they also didn't get torn asunder...
___________________________ The day will not save them. And we own the night.
Comments
If ANYTHING, I Would Hope For Gorn to be Like The NPC Gorn We See.
In what respect?
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
Probably means being able to grabbing pieces of huge rock and hurling them at folks.
Worf introduced my Gorn to prune juice....
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
My character Tsin'xing
-_-... He still had no guns...
Are you implying the Gorn do not use ranged weaponry? Since there is no evidence that they don't, and plenty of implications that they do. For example, when the survivors of Cestus III talk about the weapons the Gorn were using Do you remember "They were like phasers, only worse"?
Also, memory alpha states:
Gorn ground tactical units utilized powerful disruptors, capable of completely disintegrating targets at ranges of between 1,200 and 1,500 yards.
That doesn't sound like throwing rocks to me :P
Simply because I stumbled across it yesterday, I suggest you read this, if you haven't already. It seems to be a well researched (if unreferenced) compilation of knowledge on Gorn.
It details such things as their high intelligence, speed and agility. Again, it would be nice if it said where it came from, but the colour coding implies it's canon
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
In other words basicly the same as what I stated on the previous page.
Bold is what was marked as canon.
WTF is a "crocodilian"? anyway... A lack of stamina makes a poor fighter and linebackers are not the most agile of people and do not make a great fighter. Now an MMA fighter weighs in at half a linebacker and would clean a linebackers clock and be ready for the next linebacker unless said linebacker got a good hold on him. Kind of like say a feresan or a klingon being a more competant mellee fighter than a gorn.
But if they are like a crocodile in speed and agility then all anyone would have to do is avoid them for about a minute or less then the gorn would be useless for combat and a very easy target. Croc's rely on stealth and a quick and decisive sneak attack and do not have the stamina to chase down prey if the sneak attack fails, maybe 10 to 20 feet worth of chase until they are forced to give up and rest while waiting for the next prey to come get a drink. plenty of documentaries showing and explaining this.
Basicly STO has the gorn's combat ability set about right.
Another thought... If they are cold blooded where are the heat lamps or heating rocks in first city? i want to watch the gorn lay on the rocks under the lamps basking in the heat, take some pics to show the family back home...
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
In the end, that is ALL I ask
Crocodilians are members of the order Crocodilia, which includes crocodiles, alligators, caimans and gharials.
When I was writing that passage you quoted from my Gorn RP guide I was attempting to reconcile what the two somewhat contradictory cannon depictions of the Gorn (the one Kirk fought and Slar) with their depiction in-game and what I know of large reptiles in the real world.
While its true that crocodiles lack the ability to sprint for long distances, this doesn't mean they lack the stamina to fight and grapple for hours on end. As I mentioned previously in this thread, they've been observed to engage in dominance battles that last until well after the sun goes down. (Although, when these battles do eventually end, they are usually to exhausted to move for several days.) Their limited sprint endurance probably has more to do with their bodily proportions (total mass versus leg muscle mass) and the fact that they've adapted pretty specifically to ambush other animals from the water.
Since the Gorn have evolved to be land predators and have more humanoid proportions, they would have to be able to chase down prey and I'd expect them to be pretty good at that.
As for basking spots in the First City, I'm sure there are a few places that cater to our needs, probably one or two of those doors in the back alleys. We just don't see the Gorn being Gorn, like we don't see the Orions being Orions, but we can assume that it all happens off the set.
EDIT: FYI the reason I didn't list my soft-canon/non-canon references in the "Introduction to the Gorn" guide is because a) there were a lot of them, b) I was drawing from my own notes and in some cases my memory of what I'd read and I didn't keep very close track of which book said what, and c) a lot of these sources were contradictory, forcing me to cherry-pick the bits that did not conflict with higher canon, which would have led to d) a very long list of annotated footnotes that I figured nobody would want to read or sift through in order to figure what I got right or wrong. So I went with the color-coding method instead, with the understanding that everything not in green (screen-canon) would be open for debate. And even some of the screen canon (like the writers of "Arena" scripting the Gorn's slow movement to account for the stuntman's limited mobility in the suit) is left somewhat debatable (especially in light of the radically different appearance in ENT: "In A Mirror Darkly")
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I agree. After all, Gorn are like Humans, just Reptilain, MUCH Stronger, More Endurable, More Stanima, AND Can Run As Fast or Faster Than Humans.
Gorn Males: Strong & "Resistant" As Arena Episode
Gorn Females: STRONGER & MORE RESISTANT Than Male Gorn
Still, Gorn MALES are STRONG, more so than Cats, Klingons, And Orions.
But A FEMALE Gorn can easily be stronger than male Gorn. Infact, there are more Female Gorn in the military.
Ways to Identify:
MALE: Head Spikes
FEMALE: No Head Spikes
I would expect gorn to be less endurable, due to all the other points you mentioned
Yes I do know what you meant, and I apologise for any offence I may have caused with a light mocking of your language skills...
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
Understood... its a joke. To say Gorn can be as fast as Humans... and still be... well Gorn XD
in THAT Case... Lets get Some GORN WEAPONS GORN RESTRICTED!
I always wanted to be on Qo'nos shooting from the Great Hall All The Way To The Bar, And Farther, To Do a "Safe" bar Fight....
Or.... even shoot from the bar and hit J'mpok XD
There are many castes... but by NPC.... They are the "Warrior Caste"
Even if so... may I say again....
Gorn Can Pick Up 2,000+ Pound Boulders...
STO Says Cats, Orions, and Klingons can top that.
Gorn Are 2% Fat. 98% Muscle... And being 9ft Tall... And Great In Size... The "Fat" part is close to none noticeable.
Face it! Gorn are just nerfed! They are UN-canon... etc...
And guess what? Gorn castes are SOFT CANON AKA: Not True Canon! So As Much As I LOVE All Types of Gorn Canon... I want the pure breed Arena/Mirror Canon and GET TRUE CANONICAL!
And thats what I was trying to say, yes Gorn may have the physical power like a power lifter can lift extreme amounts they for all that strength do not make great fighters. physical strength does not equal fighting prowes, a body builder cannot beat a master swordsman unless the master swordsman makes a huge mistake like letting the body builder get ahold of him.
There is a reason all the best martial artist are not bodybuilder sized and there is a very good reason you wouldnt want to mess with any of them even if you are a meathead bodybuilder. The reason is the speed and agility required for fighting is lost when someone packs on that much muscle. Speed and agility adds the ability to dodge a slower attacker and to strike them twice as many times, and with mellee weapons that speed and agility is faster more efficiant kills.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
I don't think it's fair to compare a body builder to an armed martial artists. A better example would be to compare a professional weight lifter (not body builder) to an unarmed martial artist.
Anyway, your post reminds me of this fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EE2TZAdoaS8
That works.
WTF is "mettle damage" anyway? I can't find any references to it anywhere.
There is no good unarmed combat in STO for anyone unless you are an idiot and enjoy headbutting. If there was good unarmed combat then Gorn would ofcourse be top dog... sorry lizard in it. We have armed combat in mellee and a bad joke for unarmed and natuaraly Gorn would not be the best at armed mellee combat because they would lack the speed and agility simply because of mass.
klink and andorians train in blade/mellee weapons from childhood till death, cats are natuaraly fast and agile and even a housecat can shred your arms if its pissed off and you dare pick it up... I can only imagine a pissed ferresian or caitian with a sword.
Gorn are more like big huge bulky weight lifters/body builders/pro wrestlers/line backers/power lifters unarmed combat pick you up and throw you after tying you into knots fighters. against a fast moving sharp blade from someone who has trained in the use of that blade since childhood... I wouldnt want to be the gorn. take the blades away and Gorn will win without even trying.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
We covered this a few pages ago - he meant "melee"
As many folk who are interested in such things can tell you, pound for pound the domestic house cat is one of the strongest and more dangerous animals. Not only are they strong, but they're more nimble than most and damn quick!
I think I've already mentioned it in this thread, but I'd like to see the various kitties get unique melee styles, with scratchy flurries and stuff!
Doing this for more races could be tricky, since most of them don't have anything distinctive. Sure, Vulcans and andorians have their own martial arts, Klingons apparently have a distinctive fighting style (always looked like "drunk amateur" style to me)...
I'd also like it if you could choose which set of martial arts you go for...
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
IMHO.... Gorn need a buff. Melee seems completely drained... being that is all they are based on. SURE they aren't nimble in some cases... but Gorn are neither powerful, nor tanky in this game. The fact they are weaker than most any other race in melee, and even resistance... it is that that leads me to say they need a buff. They are just in need of a re-vamp.
Hence, just making them like NPCs Holdch will make things easier, but "harder."
I don't care.
1. Give a Melee Buff
2. Make then "Arena/Holdch/Raw'qu" Gorn
3. More Resistance?
4. ?
Yeah. We've gathered that's your opinion...
Okay, going purely by Racial traits, Potential Punching Power:
Gorn:
+17.5% bonus to Melee Damage
15% chance to knock down the target of your melee attacks.
Nausicaan
15% bonus to Melee damage
15% chance to knock down the target of your melee attacks.
Orion (male):
+15% Physical Damage
15% chance: to target: Knocks back +0.66 meters (Only affects certain things)
Klingons
+15% Physical Damage
Ferasan:
+5% Damage with Melee Attacks (plus all the stealthy boosts to melee, if you happen to be sneaky)
As you can see, by base attributes: Gorn easily come out on top.Yes, Ferasans can spend an extra trait to get an extra bonus. But guess what, that uses up a trait slot! Who'd have thunk it?
Gorn also have access to "Bite" which is awesome! Yes, Ferasans have pounce, but in my experience, that's not as useful.
Now, the resistances for you tanky folk:
Gorn:
+5 Physical Damage Resistance Rating
+5 All Energy Damage Resistance Rating
+10 Plasma Damage Resistance Rating
+25 Fire Damage Resistance Rating
Klingon
+5 All Damage Resistance Rating
Wow, once again: Gorn easily come out on top. Although with only one race competing (unless you count Orions placate resistance), that's no surprise.
I'd guess this would instantly make half the Gorn captains regret their character choice, or perhaps abandon it all together.
Please note: I make no claims that the "half" mentioned above is accurate, it is simply a phrase!
(just in case it isn't obvious, that was directed at a few people on this site who just leap on any vague allusion to numbers and demand empirical evidence. Despite the lack of implication that there should be any...
1) I'm all for making gorn better, but since they'r already Best, balance must be considered. Can't have our little 'zillas being overpowered now, can we
2) This would take care of the Over-powered thing, putting them at a significant disadvantage to everyone else in the game.
3) Again, they're already better than everyone at this. They may not be to the level you think they should canonically, but as much as accuracy is appreciated: Balance is still more important.
Seriously, Gorn are wonderful, and I think they deserve all the cookies in the universe, but that's not a valid justification for requesting/expecting them to be made overpowered. You can't just decide "Oh this species should get +250% melee damage, and +99 to all resistances"
Yes, tossing puny humies around like rag dolls and shrugging off phaser shots as if they're flashlights may make you feel good, but it's game breaking and non-canonical. Consider in the 2 on-screen gorn fights: The 2 humans didn't manage to inflict any real damage to their lizard pals, but they also didn't get torn asunder...
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
What about Humans are they the wimps of the Galaxy I wouldn't think so.You take those of Norse descent,sumarari,kurka and tibeten sp.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Vulcans don't have telekinetic powers
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers