try flying a big beast of a boat. you either go up/down slightly to the left or right. thats not spiraling, that big ship attack pattern echo or whatever :P Unfortunate game design where many before went the route of true 3d combat "do a barrel roll!"
I give the OP a double facepalm... a first ever for tal ^_^
EDIT: PS why are we continuing this conversation? It's as stupid as, why do cars go one way on a one way only road? stupid. let's all go eat some midnight snack from the fridge then ... smells somewhat trolly here mai o.o
I really suggest that you edit your post to use slightly more moderate language. The reason why you are catching so much anger and trolling is because you have practically accused us of "exploiting", which is something very illegal, unfair and not allowed in the game based on the ToS. "Exploiting" has offensive and angry implications that mean you are accusing all players of doing something wrong. Use a different word for better results.
For example - "I have noticed that spiraling vertically in this game to avoid fire seems to be common practice. What are your opinions on this matter? Is it fine to do this? Since I don't know if I am breaking any rules by doing so."
Using this type of language, it comes across more as asking for opinions on whether you can do this - which is fine - versus your current tone which makes it seem as though you are crying for a nerf or something similar (probably unintended on your part).
Or you can use something more neutral and to-the-point - "Spiraling vertically to avoid fire - what do you all think?"
Leaves no room for doubt and avoids negative connotations.
I was in Ker'rat while you and the other guy were arguing about it in instance 6. You, OP, were repeatedly told why you were wrong. All you're doing here is carrying an in-game argument onto the forums, IMO.
You tried to alphastrike/one shot someone. You failed. He maneuvered out of the way. You couldn't keep up. It's as simple as that. There's no real discussion to be had here, you're just QQing against people using a perfectly legit aspect of the game.
Are you going complain about people turning too much or daring to change their elevation in a fight, because it puts them out of your DHC arc?
so forgive me if this has been a previous topic, but i found none in a cursory search.
it is my opinion that spiraling is a exploit. that is to say, that do to to the game design it is taking advantage of limited z axis to stay out of the weapons arc of your opponent.
after mentioning this to another player in ker'rat, it seems there are varying opinions on the matter, which is why i bring it to the community to get some sort of census on the matter.
if you agree or not, i would like to hear your opinions on the matter as i value them greatly. thanks in advance!! see you in game ^^
Turning left is OP. I suggest all future tournaments allow players to only turn right.
Damn it, though I turn right 99.9% of the time like most players - every now and again, I turn left. My apologies...
Honestly though, I've seen the complaint many times in various zone chats - but I've never seen it actually in action to be able to see what the complaint is actually about. There's a lot of hubbub made about it as if it is something extremely special - something twisted - something out of the ordinary that they're doing that's exploiting.
I try to picture a BoP with over 9000 turn that's turning in place and spiraling to the top of the map in the blink of an eye...because otherwise, well - it's just the normal moving up (as drunk pointed out) and folks trying to stay out of the arc.
Because for the most part, whether they're moving up/down/left/right - if it's just a case that they're turning faster than you can...they're just turning faster than you can. There's a reason that different weapons have different arcs, there damage is related to those arcs - and to be honest, Cryptic has done a lot to make it easier for folks to maintain the smaller arcs against certain ships (and thus easier for certain ships to avoid those arcs). Escort vs. Cruiser has gotten easier - Escort vs. Escort has gotten harder for some. I can't pull off the DHC dogfighting stuff w/ Escort vs. Escort anymore (I sucked before they made the changes boosting turn).
If the devs deconstrain the z-axis, better play with a bin next to you to vomit in.
Have you ever had the camera seizure thing? Where because of your location and the location (target) your camera...the camera just spazzes out until you drop target? Even if I popped the Dramamine to deal with the normal motion sickness/spatial nausea - I'd still end up blowing chunks with how often that would occur...
I really suggest that you edit your post to use slightly more moderate language. The reason why you are catching so much anger and trolling is because you have practically accused us of "exploiting", which is something very illegal, unfair and not allowed in the game based on the ToS. "Exploiting" has offensive and angry implications that mean you are accusing all players of doing something wrong. Use a different word for better results.
For example - "I have noticed that spiraling vertically in this game to avoid fire seems to be common practice. What are your opinions on this matter? Is it fine to do this? Since I don't know if I am breaking any rules by doing so."
Using this type of language, it comes across more as asking for opinions on whether you can do this - which is fine - versus your current tone which makes it seem as though you are crying for a nerf or something similar (probably unintended on your part).
Or you can use something more neutral and to-the-point - "Spiraling vertically to avoid fire - what do you all think?"
Leaves no room for doubt and avoids negative connotations.
thank you for your advise and diplomatic approach but my post stands as is. i did not point any fingers and only voiced an opinion.
i for one am still not convinced that spiraling is not 'taking advantage' of current game design, as nobody has given me any reason to think otherwise. in fact, one poster has mentioned that the tilt has been changed once already in the past due to this very issue.
but it seems that the majority of players agree that this is a 'tactic' or valid 'maneuver', therefore i will not push the issue and will keep quiet when i see others using said 'maneuver' [lol]
Post Script, i lol'd to me keeping quiet And spiraling being a space maneuver. :P
Don't know why it says i'm an ARC user. i will never use that TRIBBLE Cryptic!
I don't agree w/the OP, but there was a change shortly after launch to allow a greater z-axis tilt b/c people couldn't stand how low a value it was. Until that change just tilting/spiralling alone wouldn't get someone out of cannon arc.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I was in Ker'rat while you and the other guy were arguing about it in instance 6. You, OP, were repeatedly told why you were wrong. All you're doing here is carrying an in-game argument onto the forums, IMO.
You tried to alphastrike/one shot someone. You failed. He maneuvered out of the way. You couldn't keep up. It's as simple as that. There's no real discussion to be had here, you're just QQing against people using a perfectly legit aspect of the game.
Are you going complain about people turning too much or daring to change their elevation in a fight, because it puts them out of your DHC arc?
actually, there were a couple people in that instance that agreed with me. and really i did keep up with him\her as s\he was not more maneuverable than i. cloak saved his TRIBBLE.
the issue at hand is that i made a reference to his\her play style and am trying to gather information so i know if 1. i need to apologize to said player for suggesting s\he was a beginning player. 2. adjust my own play style to save my own TRIBBLE at times. 3. just say f**k it and play the way i like and not worry about what others do.
more than likely i will do all 3 :P
anyway, thanks to all who participated.
Don't know why it says i'm an ARC user. i will never use that TRIBBLE Cryptic!
This is the environment. All anyone does is exploit their gear and their surroundings to gain an advantage to achieve victory.
Is evasiving around a planetoid in cracked planet to evade fire an exploit? No. It's part of the map. Which I imagine most players in the game have attempted to do.
It's akin to an escort pilot saying tac cruisers exploit eptw dem beam array broadsides.
Or... While in kerrat drawing your target towards a Borg cube to distract them while looking for a kill shot.
This is the environment. All anyone does is exploit their gear and their surroundings to gain an advantage to achieve victory.
Is evasiving around a planetoid in cracked planet to evade fire an exploit? No. It's part of the map. Which I imagine most players in the game have attempted to do.
It's akin to an escort pilot saying tac cruisers exploit eptw dem beam array broadsides.
Or... While in kerrat drawing your target towards a Borg cube to distract them while looking for a kill shot.
It's the way it is folks.
Have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
not really sure how you can even equate the two. one is an obstacle in an instance, another is an obstacle in game design. not even on the same plain, but thanks for you opinion.
Don't know why it says i'm an ARC user. i will never use that TRIBBLE Cryptic!
not really sure how you can even equate the two. one is an obstacle in an instance, another is an obstacle in game design. not even on the same plain, but thanks for you opinion.
Do you ever lose arc on somebody going left/right?
I catched myself spiralling once in a while, mostly against guys using all the spam possible. Tiif, black hole, etc.
Not gonna lie.
In a sportive match on both sides, nah.
Imo its just as broken or fixed or intended as warp poo disappears. Its there, it will never go.
Seriosly keep this nonsense in kerrat zone chat lolol.
Oh a nice tip to increase your Z-axis when spiraling towards a spiraler:
Press and hold W until you cant go further, let loose then press left or right.
Keeping both W and left/right pressed will gain you a lesser Z-axis position then the first example. Im pretty sure most vets already figured this trick out since beta. It just requires some discipline
Do you ever lose arc on somebody going left/right?
well it was already stated by someone else that going left or right was an exploit too
first misconception about this game,
it is not a space sim.
it is an aviation+- type of game.
you go up, you go down, you go left, you go right, you can go faster/slower or stop.
you cant roll, you cant loop, you cant go directly vertical either up or down.
the issue with the game isnt that it cant handle 3d flight, its the issue of the shields i think it was said.
we only have front/left/right/rear shields, no top or bottom. thats why they wont put full 3d flight into the game, it would require a MAJOR overhaul of the shield system for very little gain to the game overall.
the ai wouldnt make use of such a feature, only pvp'rs would and even then rarely.
and yes, i know its been quoted that the game is a 3d space flight sim whatever game...
we're pvp'rs. we should well know that you can quote them on a ton of promised pvp stuff and we still aint got ****.
Do you ever lose arc on somebody going left/right?
yes i do and in those instances i feel i was out maneuvered. in the case of spiraling, i feel, well i think we all know how i feel about that :P
turn is a mechanic of the game and i suppose the same could be said for spiraling. so do you think it would make sense then that i should be able to turn up or down just as far as i can turn left or right? the fact is, we have a limited pitch and is not cohesive with what true space flight would be. hence my issue with it.
Don't know why it says i'm an ARC user. i will never use that TRIBBLE Cryptic!
you go up, you go down, you go left, you go right, you can go faster/slower or stop.
you cant roll, you cant loop, you cant go directly vertical either up or down.
the issue with the game isnt that it cant handle 3d flight, its the issue of the shields i think it was said.
we only have front/left/right/rear shields, no top or bottom. thats why they wont put full 3d flight into the game, it would require a MAJOR overhaul of the shield system for very little gain to the game overall.
.
this actually helps me some. thank you
Don't know why it says i'm an ARC user. i will never use that TRIBBLE Cryptic!
Right, because it's game-breaking to have some kind of actual evasive maneuver in the game. Tightly turning out of your tail's line of fire is so completely unrealistic, and has absolutely no heritage in aerial combat. Anything that is in your line of sight should just trudge along slowly so you don't lose any of the advantages you gain by giving up wide firing arcs. :rolleyes:
No, wait. Defensive spirals may have been introduced into PvP because players recognized the limited pitch of the starships, but unlocking full 3D movement would mean that a defensive spiral would be one of the most basic of evasive maneuvers.
The defensive spiral has a few major weaknesses, the easiest being really easy to fit into most builds. It's called a "Tractor Beam."
Don't give in to the temptation to fight the feds that are always flying around way above the borg waiting for a fight, these fights will always end up at the top of the map. Instead ignore them if they are there and keep ganking the feds farming the borg, the feds at kerrat to fight will have to move back down to the borg area if they want to fight.
Right, because it's game-breaking to have some kind of actual evasive maneuver in the game. Tightly turning out of your tail's line of fire is so completely unrealistic, and has absolutely no heritage in aerial combat. Anything that is in your line of sight should just trudge along slowly so you don't lose any of the advantages you gain by giving up wide firing arcs. :rolleyes:
No, wait. Defensive spirals may have been introduced into PvP because players recognized the limited pitch of the starships, but unlocking full 3D movement would mean that a defensive spiral would be one of the most basic of evasive maneuvers.
The defensive spiral has a few major weaknesses, the easiest being really easy to fit into most builds. It's called a "Tractor Beam."
while a seemingly clever response, there are a couple weakness' in your argument.
your link;
Basic fighter maneuvers (BFM) are tactical movements performed by fighter aircraft during air combat maneuvering
as to tractor beams being a counter. LOL only 3 points in inertia dampers will negate the effects of all but the strongest and properly spec'd tractor beams, especially if you gain more than 5k distance from it.
Don't know why it says i'm an ARC user. i will never use that TRIBBLE Cryptic!
Don't give in to the temptation to fight the feds that are always flying around way above the borg waiting for a fight, these fights will always end up at the top of the map. Instead ignore them if they are there and keep ganking the feds farming the borg, the feds at kerrat to fight will have to move back down to the borg area if they want to fight.
this is just funny prolly the best counter yet! thanks
Don't know why it says i'm an ARC user. i will never use that TRIBBLE Cryptic!
yes i do and in those instances i feel i was out maneuvered. in the case of spiraling, i feel, well i think we all know how i feel about that :P
turn is a mechanic of the game and i suppose the same could be said for spiraling. so do you think it would make sense then that i should be able to turn up or down just as far as i can turn left or right? the fact is, we have a limited pitch and is not cohesive with what true space flight would be. hence my issue with it.
How is it any different then? Unless they are actually exploiting the limitation - by getting around it in some fashion while it still applies to you - is it not just a case of being outmaneuvered? Is it not entirely possible for somebody to attempt to do it - in a less maneuverable ship, with less skill, etc, etc, etc - and for you to shred them regardless?
The people that tend to moan about spiraling are always the escort pilots.
- Who are also the ones that spiral.
- Who are the only ship without some buffing can spiral easily.
- Who would do the exact same thing if they had too.
I hate it when somebody spirals when i'm trying to kill them. I feel cheated. Specially when they then claim an overwhelming amount of skill as their reason for survival.
Do I like it? Nah. Would I call it an exploit? Nah. Stupid is as stupid does - F Gump's Mum.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Yeah...I used to spiral upwards like everyone else. Then I heard about this really underground idea (you've never heard of it, they are just that underground), of people spiraling down.
So I spiral down now, it's much cooler. #HipsterMimey
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Comments
I give the OP a double facepalm... a first ever for tal ^_^
EDIT: PS why are we continuing this conversation? It's as stupid as, why do cars go one way on a one way only road? stupid. let's all go eat some midnight snack from the fridge then
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
Like my alien? Watch THE VIDEO
Need custom graphics for you or your fleet? Click HERE
I really suggest that you edit your post to use slightly more moderate language. The reason why you are catching so much anger and trolling is because you have practically accused us of "exploiting", which is something very illegal, unfair and not allowed in the game based on the ToS. "Exploiting" has offensive and angry implications that mean you are accusing all players of doing something wrong. Use a different word for better results.
For example - "I have noticed that spiraling vertically in this game to avoid fire seems to be common practice. What are your opinions on this matter? Is it fine to do this? Since I don't know if I am breaking any rules by doing so."
Using this type of language, it comes across more as asking for opinions on whether you can do this - which is fine - versus your current tone which makes it seem as though you are crying for a nerf or something similar (probably unintended on your part).
Or you can use something more neutral and to-the-point - "Spiraling vertically to avoid fire - what do you all think?"
Leaves no room for doubt and avoids negative connotations.
You tried to alphastrike/one shot someone. You failed. He maneuvered out of the way. You couldn't keep up. It's as simple as that. There's no real discussion to be had here, you're just QQing against people using a perfectly legit aspect of the game.
Are you going complain about people turning too much or daring to change their elevation in a fight, because it puts them out of your DHC arc?
Crying about it wont help.
Certain weapons have a limited arcs,... you made the choice when you equipped them.
You wanted to be the top DPS dog on the block.
Well, arcs get your OP TRIBBLE in check.
Deal with it.
BTW Im a tac driving fleet defiant. So.
Seriously. Just stop. This isn't even useful.
Damn it, though I turn right 99.9% of the time like most players - every now and again, I turn left. My apologies...
Honestly though, I've seen the complaint many times in various zone chats - but I've never seen it actually in action to be able to see what the complaint is actually about. There's a lot of hubbub made about it as if it is something extremely special - something twisted - something out of the ordinary that they're doing that's exploiting.
I try to picture a BoP with over 9000 turn that's turning in place and spiraling to the top of the map in the blink of an eye...because otherwise, well - it's just the normal moving up (as drunk pointed out) and folks trying to stay out of the arc.
Because for the most part, whether they're moving up/down/left/right - if it's just a case that they're turning faster than you can...they're just turning faster than you can. There's a reason that different weapons have different arcs, there damage is related to those arcs - and to be honest, Cryptic has done a lot to make it easier for folks to maintain the smaller arcs against certain ships (and thus easier for certain ships to avoid those arcs). Escort vs. Cruiser has gotten easier - Escort vs. Escort has gotten harder for some. I can't pull off the DHC dogfighting stuff w/ Escort vs. Escort anymore (I sucked before they made the changes boosting turn).
This is proven to be nonsense. Stop spreading misinformation.
Also, usse your head: If vertical movement was impossible in this game, it would CRASH every time someone jumps up into the air.
Also, better get rid of the minimap, because it will be even more useless than it is now.
Have you ever had the camera seizure thing? Where because of your location and the location (target) your camera...the camera just spazzes out until you drop target? Even if I popped the Dramamine to deal with the normal motion sickness/spatial nausea - I'd still end up blowing chunks with how often that would occur...
thank you for your advise and diplomatic approach but my post stands as is. i did not point any fingers and only voiced an opinion.
i for one am still not convinced that spiraling is not 'taking advantage' of current game design, as nobody has given me any reason to think otherwise. in fact, one poster has mentioned that the tilt has been changed once already in the past due to this very issue.
but it seems that the majority of players agree that this is a 'tactic' or valid 'maneuver', therefore i will not push the issue and will keep quiet when i see others using said 'maneuver' [lol]
Post Script, i lol'd to me keeping quiet And spiraling being a space maneuver. :P
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
actually, there were a couple people in that instance that agreed with me. and really i did keep up with him\her as s\he was not more maneuverable than i. cloak saved his TRIBBLE.
the issue at hand is that i made a reference to his\her play style and am trying to gather information so i know if 1. i need to apologize to said player for suggesting s\he was a beginning player. 2. adjust my own play style to save my own TRIBBLE at times. 3. just say f**k it and play the way i like and not worry about what others do.
more than likely i will do all 3 :P
anyway, thanks to all who participated.
This is the environment. All anyone does is exploit their gear and their surroundings to gain an advantage to achieve victory.
Is evasiving around a planetoid in cracked planet to evade fire an exploit? No. It's part of the map. Which I imagine most players in the game have attempted to do.
It's akin to an escort pilot saying tac cruisers exploit eptw dem beam array broadsides.
Or... While in kerrat drawing your target towards a Borg cube to distract them while looking for a kill shot.
It's the way it is folks.
Have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
not really sure how you can even equate the two. one is an obstacle in an instance, another is an obstacle in game design. not even on the same plain, but thanks for you opinion.
Do you ever lose arc on somebody going left/right?
Not gonna lie.
In a sportive match on both sides, nah.
Imo its just as broken or fixed or intended as warp poo disappears. Its there, it will never go.
Seriosly keep this nonsense in kerrat zone chat lolol.
Oh a nice tip to increase your Z-axis when spiraling towards a spiraler:
Press and hold W until you cant go further, let loose then press left or right.
Keeping both W and left/right pressed will gain you a lesser Z-axis position then the first example. Im pretty sure most vets already figured this trick out since beta. It just requires some discipline
well it was already stated by someone else that going left or right was an exploit too
first misconception about this game,
it is not a space sim.
it is an aviation+- type of game.
you go up, you go down, you go left, you go right, you can go faster/slower or stop.
you cant roll, you cant loop, you cant go directly vertical either up or down.
the issue with the game isnt that it cant handle 3d flight, its the issue of the shields i think it was said.
we only have front/left/right/rear shields, no top or bottom. thats why they wont put full 3d flight into the game, it would require a MAJOR overhaul of the shield system for very little gain to the game overall.
the ai wouldnt make use of such a feature, only pvp'rs would and even then rarely.
and yes, i know its been quoted that the game is a 3d space flight sim whatever game...
we're pvp'rs. we should well know that you can quote them on a ton of promised pvp stuff and we still aint got ****.
Do you even Science Bro?
yes i do and in those instances i feel i was out maneuvered. in the case of spiraling, i feel, well i think we all know how i feel about that :P
turn is a mechanic of the game and i suppose the same could be said for spiraling. so do you think it would make sense then that i should be able to turn up or down just as far as i can turn left or right? the fact is, we have a limited pitch and is not cohesive with what true space flight would be. hence my issue with it.
this actually helps me some. thank you
No, wait. Defensive spirals may have been introduced into PvP because players recognized the limited pitch of the starships, but unlocking full 3D movement would mean that a defensive spiral would be one of the most basic of evasive maneuvers.
The defensive spiral has a few major weaknesses, the easiest being really easy to fit into most builds. It's called a "Tractor Beam."
while a seemingly clever response, there are a couple weakness' in your argument.
your link;
Basic fighter maneuvers (BFM) are tactical movements performed by fighter aircraft during air combat maneuvering
as to tractor beams being a counter. LOL only 3 points in inertia dampers will negate the effects of all but the strongest and properly spec'd tractor beams, especially if you gain more than 5k distance from it.
this is just funny
How is it any different then? Unless they are actually exploiting the limitation - by getting around it in some fashion while it still applies to you - is it not just a case of being outmaneuvered? Is it not entirely possible for somebody to attempt to do it - in a less maneuverable ship, with less skill, etc, etc, etc - and for you to shred them regardless?
- Who are also the ones that spiral.
- Who are the only ship without some buffing can spiral easily.
- Who would do the exact same thing if they had too.
I hate it when somebody spirals when i'm trying to kill them. I feel cheated. Specially when they then claim an overwhelming amount of skill as their reason for survival.
Do I like it? Nah. Would I call it an exploit? Nah. Stupid is as stupid does - F Gump's Mum.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
So I spiral down now, it's much cooler. #HipsterMimey
:P