so forgive me if this has been a previous topic, but i found none in a cursory search.
it is my opinion that spiraling is a exploit. that is to say, that do to to the game design it is taking advantage of limited z axis to stay out of the weapons arc of your opponent.
This has to be the most supidest thing I have heard on these forums this year. Spiraling is not an exploit, it is called taking evasive action. Standard combat tactics. In other words, maneuver your ship to get your a... out of the firing line (Go check with a combat pilot if you like). That is survival, not exploiting. Please k crawl back under the covers...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] ***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
what consensus do you need to tell you are playing a 3d game. spiraling, climbing, w/e all these terms, it means 1 thing: z axis, and it is allowed because again its space and this is 3d. nuff said.
yet you are still using it to travel vertically in the map, something the z axis limit is intended to prevent.
QFT-
Btw... I noticed that when the OP and several other ppl <including myself.> started spiraling and running away yesterday and the day before, like all of these other posters on here defending this do, we got RAGED at and the "Stop spiraling and running away" QQ commenced in bucketloads. Whats good for the goose isnt good for the gander I guess. "It's okay for me to do it, but you're not allowed." and "Dont let me hear you whining at me when I run away, but dont you DARE do it yourself, or you wont hear the end of it from me."
Blah blah blah we've all heard it before, the only reason ppl in this post are ragin and so pissy pants isnt due to the spiraling issue... since they rage whenever anyone else does it.. it is because all of these ppl here have been blown up hundreds of times in Kerrat by the OP even though they usually outnumber him 6 to 1.
P.S. Compelling arguments... why the hell not? We already exploit dozens of broken game mechanics in this game anyway <its called PVP in sto> whats one more? I think I will start spiraling in all my beam boats from now on. Next time I get outnumbered by 8 feds, Ill just run away spiraling up and up and up, poppin all my buffs and batts...if you guys dont like it.. phooey! Lol. 2bad. :P
what consensus do you need to tell you are playing a 3d game. spiraling, climbing, w/e all these terms, it means 1 thing: z axis, and it is allowed because again its space and this is 3d. nuff said.
i said i would drop the subject, but since some want to continue making ignorant posts such as the above quoted one, i will rant on. :P
the only post to clearly shoot down my original assumption is post #88. go ahead take a look, i'll wait. yes that post was by me. :P it's not an exploit, as it is believed to be working as intended. had posters #94 #92 #91 been bothered to actually read the thread, they would not have any need to post, as these things have already been covered.
however i will say this; spiraling is stupid. by spiraling you are only delaying the inevitable. i mean you are running for a reason after all. and hey, why not just log out? logging isn't an exploit. it's part of the game mechanics and working as intended, no?
this is not a flight sim. to even suggest that spiraling is akin to rolling scissors maneuver is just ignorance on your part. we cant do loops, barrel roll or use gravity to our advantage. provided we had auto locking cannons in space combat [which in game we do] that maneuver would get you killed. simple as that. that move is for aerial combat where gravity, air resistance, speed, g-force and the lack of 'smart bullets' all play factors.
as much as i want it to be, this game is not even a space sim. there is no need to roll in space. the only limiting factors to a turn in space would be; engine power to overcome inertia, and the human element. that is to say, how much rapid movement can a human withstand in such a short amount of time. the real word physics in this game are lacking if not nonexistent to say the least.
i have played with many pvp'ers and 99% of them don't spiral. it makes me wonder why. i'd like to think that, like me, they think it's a dumb aspect of the game and takes from the immersion. even *one trick pony* [yes i said that and don't pretend you don't know who i'm talking about] one of, if not the best hit and run pilot in the game, doesn't spiral. he just vapes you and runs. usually in an upward direction, but not spiraling.
anyway, nearing 3000 views, so i do believe this is a subject of interest for many. some i'm sure would agree with me, but have not posted for fear of being trolled. i for one don't care. troll away. i just ask that you have something intelligent to include, or at the very least something funny like mimey2's posts.
as to the usefulness of this thread, i say whether it's shown to be stupid or not, when somebody grumbles about spiraling, [and there will be others] you can just refer them here.
FYI i will be doing a lot of spiraling, especially when i'm outnumbered. just to make a point.
have fun all!! see you in game
Don't know why it says i'm an ARC user. i will never use that TRIBBLE Cryptic!
While I agree spiraling is a lame tactic it is just part of the problem I see in Kerrat. The main problem is not enough KDF are adapting to the new challenge of Fedroms in kerrat by having ways to deal with cloakers.
There are some Fed Roms like the guy the OP was talking about that are just plain noobs and will always find ways to avoid fighting unless you are either almost dead from another fight or already outnumbered. I have never seen him attempt a decloaking attack on a lone KDF player at full health by himself even when using a scimitar, and he packs just about every speed boost there is to run.
Growing tired of cowardice from people like this guy and other noob fedroms in kerrat I powerleveled a sci and put together a brel running Cmdr and Lt cmdr sci with just about every troll ability, doff, weapon and console there is simply wait cloaked for these cowards to try to ambush another klink then proceeding to snb and hit him with ss doff and vm doff, then evasives and epte to him to use cpb on them as they would try to cloak. Between gw, 2 copies of cpb, and tractor I could keep them decloaked and debuffed almost permanently, it wasn't long before I would see these people outside kerrat in sector space trying to get in other zones, and started seeing them go in anonymous.
I suggest every KDF kerrat regular that plays tac there roll a sci and put it in a brel and keep it logged off outside kerrat to put a stop to this cowardly fedrom nonsense, there is no excuse for it when most KDF players don't play nearly as cowardly in much squishier BOP ships.
I fly a Fleet Norgh in PvP. I make no secret of the fact that I run/disengage a lot. I feel it's integral to the BoP class, because they can't tank and they have low hull so battle-cloaking under fire is usually a stupid move unless you've got some big hull resist buffs or defense rating buffs. I don't really complain about others doing it, though, except maybe Scimitars. I feel the Romulans are just way out of balance in regards to the cooldowns on their cloaks, the crit bonuses they get, and the higher hulls combined with battlecloak.
As for spiraling: I will admit I do it on occasion, usually when I'm against bad odds. It's not always as effective as I'd like, because plenty of escorts can keep up to a certain extent. Heck, all you have to do is be 5km+ away and it's much easier to keep the target in the arc. It's less effective against an A2B cruiser using DEM3 and EPtW to slice right through your shields and flense the HP off you. Most of the time I prefer to just make my run and then hit a speed buff and hope someone doesn't hit me with the still-kinda-ridiculous Elachi console, a Tractor Beam or some other powerful speed debuff. If the amount of firepower presented seems a bit low, I might hang around and dogfight a bit. . .but that invites Romulans.
so forgive me if this has been a previous topic, but i found none in a cursory search.
it is my opinion that spiraling is a exploit. that is to say, that do to to the game design it is taking advantage of limited z axis to stay out of the weapons arc of your opponent.
after mentioning this to another player in ker'rat, it seems there are varying opinions on the matter, which is why i bring it to the community to get some sort of census on the matter.
if you agree or not, i would like to hear your opinions on the matter as i value them greatly. thanks in advance!! see you in game ^^
edit: post thread; 1500 views and many comments shows me that there is some interest in this subject.
however after some helpful posts and a couple enlightening ones i may have to recant my previous statements and review my opinion on this matter, as the majority of you seem to feel, while it's rather annoying, it cannot be considered an exploit to spiral as it is part of the game design and working as intended.
i thank you all for your comments and opinions!
see you in game
I think you needed to define what you meant by exploit, because it could be interpreted a lot of different ways.
Spiraling most certainly is an exploit in the sense that PvPers are exploiting the game mechanics to gain an advantage in a match and perform well.
Spiraling is most certainly not an exploit in the sense that it is a system behavior that the developers did not intend to be allowed, which is used to gain an advantage that those playing the game in the manner the developers intended would not have.
Comments
This has to be the most supidest thing I have heard on these forums this year. Spiraling is not an exploit, it is called taking evasive action. Standard combat tactics. In other words, maneuver your ship to get your a... out of the firing line (Go check with a combat pilot if you like). That is survival, not exploiting. Please k crawl back under the covers...
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
QFT-
Btw... I noticed that when the OP and several other ppl <including myself.> started spiraling and running away yesterday and the day before, like all of these other posters on here defending this do, we got RAGED at and the "Stop spiraling and running away" QQ commenced in bucketloads. Whats good for the goose isnt good for the gander I guess. "It's okay for me to do it, but you're not allowed." and "Dont let me hear you whining at me when I run away, but dont you DARE do it yourself, or you wont hear the end of it from me."
Blah blah blah we've all heard it before, the only reason ppl in this post are ragin and so pissy pants isnt due to the spiraling issue... since they rage whenever anyone else does it.. it is because all of these ppl here have been blown up hundreds of times in Kerrat by the OP even though they usually outnumber him 6 to 1.
P.S. Compelling arguments... why the hell not? We already exploit dozens of broken game mechanics in this game anyway <its called PVP in sto> whats one more? I think I will start spiraling in all my beam boats from now on. Next time I get outnumbered by 8 feds, Ill just run away spiraling up and up and up, poppin all my buffs and batts...if you guys dont like it.. phooey! Lol. 2bad. :P
Yeah, that's right.
i said i would drop the subject, but since some want to continue making ignorant posts such as the above quoted one, i will rant on. :P
the only post to clearly shoot down my original assumption is post #88. go ahead take a look, i'll wait. yes that post was by me. :P it's not an exploit, as it is believed to be working as intended. had posters #94 #92 #91 been bothered to actually read the thread, they would not have any need to post, as these things have already been covered.
however i will say this; spiraling is stupid.
this is not a flight sim. to even suggest that spiraling is akin to rolling scissors maneuver is just ignorance on your part. we cant do loops, barrel roll or use gravity to our advantage. provided we had auto locking cannons in space combat [which in game we do] that maneuver would get you killed. simple as that. that move is for aerial combat where gravity, air resistance, speed, g-force and the lack of 'smart bullets' all play factors.
as much as i want it to be, this game is not even a space sim. there is no need to roll in space. the only limiting factors to a turn in space would be; engine power to overcome inertia, and the human element. that is to say, how much rapid movement can a human withstand in such a short amount of time. the real word physics in this game are lacking if not nonexistent to say the least.
i have played with many pvp'ers and 99% of them don't spiral. it makes me wonder why. i'd like to think that, like me, they think it's a dumb aspect of the game and takes from the immersion. even *one trick pony* [yes i said that and don't pretend you don't know who i'm talking about] one of, if not the best hit and run pilot in the game, doesn't spiral. he just vapes you and runs. usually in an upward direction, but not spiraling.
anyway, nearing 3000 views, so i do believe this is a subject of interest for many. some i'm sure would agree with me, but have not posted for fear of being trolled. i for one don't care. troll away. i just ask that you have something intelligent to include, or at the very least something funny like mimey2's posts.
as to the usefulness of this thread, i say whether it's shown to be stupid or not, when somebody grumbles about spiraling, [and there will be others] you can just refer them here.
FYI i will be doing a lot of spiraling, especially when i'm outnumbered. just to make a point.
have fun all!! see you in game
There are some Fed Roms like the guy the OP was talking about that are just plain noobs and will always find ways to avoid fighting unless you are either almost dead from another fight or already outnumbered. I have never seen him attempt a decloaking attack on a lone KDF player at full health by himself even when using a scimitar, and he packs just about every speed boost there is to run.
Growing tired of cowardice from people like this guy and other noob fedroms in kerrat I powerleveled a sci and put together a brel running Cmdr and Lt cmdr sci with just about every troll ability, doff, weapon and console there is simply wait cloaked for these cowards to try to ambush another klink then proceeding to snb and hit him with ss doff and vm doff, then evasives and epte to him to use cpb on them as they would try to cloak. Between gw, 2 copies of cpb, and tractor I could keep them decloaked and debuffed almost permanently, it wasn't long before I would see these people outside kerrat in sector space trying to get in other zones, and started seeing them go in anonymous.
I suggest every KDF kerrat regular that plays tac there roll a sci and put it in a brel and keep it logged off outside kerrat to put a stop to this cowardly fedrom nonsense, there is no excuse for it when most KDF players don't play nearly as cowardly in much squishier BOP ships.
As for spiraling: I will admit I do it on occasion, usually when I'm against bad odds. It's not always as effective as I'd like, because plenty of escorts can keep up to a certain extent. Heck, all you have to do is be 5km+ away and it's much easier to keep the target in the arc. It's less effective against an A2B cruiser using DEM3 and EPtW to slice right through your shields and flense the HP off you. Most of the time I prefer to just make my run and then hit a speed buff and hope someone doesn't hit me with the still-kinda-ridiculous Elachi console, a Tractor Beam or some other powerful speed debuff. If the amount of firepower presented seems a bit low, I might hang around and dogfight a bit. . .but that invites Romulans.
I think you needed to define what you meant by exploit, because it could be interpreted a lot of different ways.
Spiraling most certainly is an exploit in the sense that PvPers are exploiting the game mechanics to gain an advantage in a match and perform well.
Spiraling is most certainly not an exploit in the sense that it is a system behavior that the developers did not intend to be allowed, which is used to gain an advantage that those playing the game in the manner the developers intended would not have.
ya i noticed too ^^ i'm one of em now LOL :P
let's see how long it takes b4 more people complain.