You're missing the meta-view of this: it's not about an artist having to fix bugs, but about management having decided that the art department is being alloted X number of rescoures, vs. Y number of resources for those who fix bugs (the Y in this example being close to 0).
No. What you're missing is the idea that the Art Department is already there and being paid. Whether the UI artist is working on Icons, or on Carrier UI, or Mini-Map UI, or just sitting around watching TV he's already there and being paid. They didn't hire TtC to do this work. He was already hired and on staff to do this type of work in the game. So there was no resources taken away from anything else to do it.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
A lot of this outrage could have been avoided and reduced if it was first tested on Tribble so we could have time to give proper feedback instead of it being thrown at us out of nowhere as a fiat accompli.
A lot of this outrage could have been avoided and reduced if it was first tested on Tribble so we could have time to give proper feedback instead of it being thrown at us out of nowhere as a fiat accompli.
Uhh... it was in fact tested on Tribble.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Personally, I'm ok with several of the new pieces, notably the Science Consoles. They're different than I'm used to, but that will just memorizing the new shapes.
However, after seeing them in game, with them being smaller than in the samples, ALL of the Engineering Plating/Armors, and Tactical (especially torpedo) consoles look too similar to tell apart.
For me, the worse part is that it's now too difficult to determine the rarity of a console. The White, Green, Blue, and Purple that denotes quality is lost in the backgrounds and pallet-matching colors of the consoles themselves.
No. What you're missing is the idea that the Art Department is already there and being paid. Whether the UI artist is working on Icons, or on Carrier UI, or Mini-Map UI, or just sitting around watching TV he's already there and being paid. They didn't hire TtC to do this work. He was already hired and on staff to do this type of work in the game. So there was no resources taken away from anything else to do it.
Part of the problem with why we don't get new features is that Cryptic Management likes to fix things that ain't broken. There was nothing wrong with the existing console icons.
But take something like the new LoR UI overlays. We got a handful with the launch of LoR, but we won't see more any times soon because that's passe now. We got Fed Blue, KDF Red, Rom Green, TNG, and a handful of green and red variants for some races...
I'd love to see overlays for every playable race in the game, or at least for every playable ship-race. Adding Vulcan and Andorian themed ones (with matching "font" accents), for example.
That would be an awesome use of TtC's time, vs. revamping icons that didn't need changing.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
In all fairness, I think his point was about time for feedback. Putting them on Tribble on the afternoon of the 19th and then launching them into the Holodeck on the morning of the 21st does give any real time for feedback - and certainly no time to make changes. Thomas has already indicated some changes are forthcoming just from the feedback in this thread.
While I fully accept that 75% of feedback posts are just nerd rage about people not wanting a change and so not caring about the reasons for the change, that other 25% might have some good ideas if the Devs give the players time to actually post them, and took the time to consider them.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
No. What you're missing is the idea that the Art Department is already there and being paid. Whether the UI artist is working on Icons, or on Carrier UI, or Mini-Map UI, or just sitting around watching TV he's already there and being paid. They didn't hire TtC to do this work. He was already hired and on staff to do this type of work in the game. So there was no resources taken away from anything else to do it.
And yet you continue to miss the overview. The Art Department is not just 'already there.' Rather, it exists because management decided so, and that it should have size X. The same management which decided the bug-fix department should have size Y. And if indeed the guys at the Art Department have so little to do, that they start overhauling a system which was about the very *last* thing in this game that needed 'fixing,' then all that really tells me, is that management alloted too many resources to X, and not to Y. Which is all the more frustrating, as it's clearly Y that people, overwhelmingly, want to see resources spent on foremost.
But we probably will keep going in circles at this. So, let's simply stick to the fact that the new icons are hard, and sometimes very hard, to distinguish from one another.
And sometimes, even if it pains you, you just have to be the person that says: "Look, John, you're a great artist; and the pictures look gorgeous! But, erm, they're sadly not entirely suitable for icons."
That would be an awesome use of TtC's time, vs. revamping icons that didn't need changing.
Someone at Cryptic thought it was important enough to get done that they assigned TtC do it. You might not agree with the change, but how many changes in the game do people actually agree with?
Typical STO forum: Cryptic changes something and some segment of the fan-base nerd rages about it for a few weeks and then its forgotten and people get on with their lives. Remember all the nerd rage over Cryptic changing the Dilithium values so people earned less? What became of that? It's been a month since all the nerd rage to the changes to Tour the Galaxy. What became of that?
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I like some of the new icons. The warp cores are really good and some of the science console ones are quite nice too. I'm not keen on the armour consoles at all or the tactical ones.
My only real issue with it is that the colours are rather muted. Its more like the artist went for pretty pastels and not enough bold colour and high contrast. I can't work out what half of my consoles are any more I have to mouse over them. Makes loot drops somewhat confusing too when I see something now its a case of "Hey is this something new? Nope its the same old junk with a new look".:P
Also the item rarity colour seriously needs boosting. So I can see easily whats green, blue or purple.
I'm not going to complain about the artists doing this but I have to ask myself why they felt the need to change things.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon, taH pagh, taH be"
Remember all the nerd rage over Cryptic changing the Dilithium values so people earned less? What became of that? It's been a month since all the nerd rage to the changes to Tour the Galaxy. What became of that?
People are still upset about the Tour the Galaxy, it would seem; but there comes a point where you realize, your protests despite, that Cryptic will ignore the complaints, no matter what. Doesn't mean, at all, that people are now okay with it -- it just means they realize they're being ignored.
Will legitimate concerns about the new icons be ignored as well?! If the devs are anything like you, and just regard people as 'nerd raging' idiots, then probably yeah. Here's to hoping they will listen, though, and take people's honest feedback to heart. It's a slim hope, I know; but, as Captain Sheridan once said: "Yeah; well, I've never known hope when it wasn't on a diet."
I've been playing for years and memorized all the icon items. I don't need to move the cursor over the item to know what it is, so can I have my old beloved icons back plz. It's annoying and confuse with the new icons. It serves no purpose and doesn't look that great imo.
Matrix I so agree with what ur saying, but I have a feeling that his us just the start of it, and I bet the sto guys will 'revamp' all of the icons very soin
I've startet a poll in the german forum and nearby 70 percent wants the old icons back, 16 percent wants a correction of the new icons, especially for color blind people. Only ten percent likes the new icons.
I offered this suggestion to Thomas yesterday. I havnt logged in in weeks so I didnt know I was too late. He said his little devices already have the beam patterns on them in addition to the colors. Sorry Thomas, those arent proper beam patterns and likely so small I still wont see his tiny detail on my 40" TV/PC screen. I think if you are going to update them might as well show a pure beam in open space type effect. I was imagining a harness thing adding more juice to the beam as it increases in mark value. Like its something you might see in engineering seeing the beam travel in open space inside a glass window enclosure.
I've startet a poll in the german forum and nearby 70 percent wants the old icons back, 16 percent wants a correction of the new icons, especially for color blind people. Only ten percent likes the new icons.
by the way...how many participated in this poll ?
what do you suppose it's percentage to the current playerbase of STO is ?
_______________________
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
It's disorienting. When I see an icon pop I know what it is visually which is a very subtle but huge time saver.
I will undoubtedly adapt to know visually the new icons exactly as I did before.
The art styling itself is purely subjective. My observation would be at the resolutions I use, they're too busy with detail for being an icon. It washes out their distinct shapes so they just appear as various oblong blobs of color.
Which is unfortunate because there's a lot going on in those pixels representative of how form follows function. It's very good work imo.
After looking at most of these types of posts and threads, it seems to be that it boils down to QQing because players can't instantly tell apart the new icons.
They're new, you'll get used to them and memorise them just as well as the old ones.
what do you suppose it's percentage to the current playerbase of STO is ?
I know that there only a few people active in the forum. But the reaction in chat on server was similar. Especially about the tactical and engineering consoles. There is an update required. On the other new icons we can get used.
It is human nature to disaprove of something we are not yet use to. Ok so the icons have been changed. Cryptic and PWE are taking STO forward not backward, this should be welcomed not berated.
When they change them again from these ones I can guarantee people will be calling for these ones back again.
When the new UI was introduced with the launch of LoR there was calls for the old one to be put back, they have now died out. This time next week or the week after there will be no mention of the icon change on the forum, unless of course it's a dev or Brandon etc.
I liked the old icons better and saw no need to replace them.
The new Sci console items look good and some even better, but all new consoles are flawed when it comes to being easy to recognize and easy to discern quality levels
For Sci consoles with blue background its often hard to tell if they are green, blue or purple quality and all tac consoles look very samey and the engineering consoles are a mess.
I am not pleased with the new looks and it is not only a matter of "getting used to it". We can for sure get used to it, but this was no change for the better of STO.
I really miss the old tac console looks, the new ones are not nice.
I think what Thomas did wa a great thing, you can even see what type of weapons the alloy can protect against just by looking at the picture now...but people are going to whine anyway
I am 30% blind with a full spectrum stage 1 monochromacity in both eyes.
Take a picture, any picture. Go into Adobe Photoshop, turn the brightness and contrast down by about 25%, turn the saturation down by about 41%, go into filters and gaussian blur the image at a 2.0 pixel radius.
Now, with that type of vision try and distinguish these new icons.
You are DAMN RIGHT I am going to complain.
What Thomas did was not a great thing, what Thomas did was ignore the one single all abiding law which governs all graphics UI artists of the game industry. He made the icons look similar without putting some sort of high contrast variances somewhere in the mix for the visually impaired. I am guessing he didn't do any sort of internship at one of the big three before Cryptic hired him, otherwise this mistake would never have made it off of his 1st stage planning board.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
It is human nature to disaprove of something we are not yet use to. Ok so the icons have been changed. Cryptic and PWE are taking STO forward not backward, this should be welcomed not berated.
Forward to a stage where they should put a big sign on the log in screen soon saying "Partially sighted? Sorry, your not welcome in this game".
I am partially sighted, and i LITERALLY cannot tell the difference between the tac consoles now.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
Will legitimate concerns about the new icons be ignored as well?! If the devs are anything like you, and just regard people as 'nerd raging' idiots, then probably yeah. Here's to hoping they will listen, though, and take people's honest feedback to heart. It's a slim hope, I know; but, as Captain Sheridan once said: "Yeah; well, I've never known hope when it wasn't on a diet."
Well given Cosmic has already mentioned there has been some hints that changes are to come I would say not. Maybe he would be kind enough to link to it, given it might easilly have been missed with the thread mergers that have happened.
I hate the new icons because their images do not match the item descriptions. Disruptor coils, phaser relays, plasma infusers, etc... now all look like SODA CANS. It gets worse -- the only way to quickly distinguish these items from each other without the tool tip is by paying close attention to the color, so if you have any sort of red/green color blindness, you are SOL.
The new icons take away ease of use. They have no positive redeeming value unless the intent is to confuse the established player base, or make mismatched console-to-weapon mistakes more commonplace.
I prefer the old icons because they were easily identifiable at a quick glace. Instead of completely replacing the old icon with a generic studded cylinder, why not retain the original picture but use another corner symbol or corner color code? Red vs. Yellow vs. Blue corner tags would work fine. The background can still retain its white, green, blue, purple, or indigo color to represent rarity.
After looking at most of these types of posts and threads, it seems to be that it boils down to QQing because players can't instantly tell apart the new icons.
They're new, you'll get used to them and memorise them just as well as the old ones.
The old ones are dead and not coming back, adapt.
I love the smell of fanbois in the evening. See I can throw an insult to invalidate your opinion too. Does it actually invalidate it? Nope not really and neither does your stupid QQing thing to others' genuine concerns.
Have you seen the comments from people who have sight problems? Even some of us who do not have such problems, for example colour blindness, are having problems because not only are the console too alike in some areas, then throw in department colour splash and "rarity" splash and it makes it more difficult.
Basically take them to grey scale and if you can't tell the difference then it is a bad icon. Such icons are meant to tell at a glance what is what. Pretty colours are just a bonus. Take a look at your fire control icons when they are not lit up, you can see what is a dual beam bank, what is a cannon, what is a beam array, what is a torp and even which type, and so on just from the greyed icons.
After looking at most of these types of posts and threads, it seems to be that it boils down to QQing because players can't instantly tell apart the new icons.
They're new, you'll get used to them and memorise them just as well as the old ones.
The old ones are dead and not coming back, adapt.
The new images are nearly identical to each other except for color. This means that those afflicted by red/green color blindness have little to fall back on other than the tool tip.
Based on the above, the new icons take away functionality. How can this possibly be a step in the right direction?
I've startet a poll in the german forum and nearby 70 percent wants the old icons back, 16 percent wants a correction of the new icons, especially for color blind people. Only ten percent likes the new icons.
Comments
Uhh... it was in fact tested on Tribble.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
However, after seeing them in game, with them being smaller than in the samples, ALL of the Engineering Plating/Armors, and Tactical (especially torpedo) consoles look too similar to tell apart.
For me, the worse part is that it's now too difficult to determine the rarity of a console. The White, Green, Blue, and Purple that denotes quality is lost in the backgrounds and pallet-matching colors of the consoles themselves.
Part of the problem with why we don't get new features is that Cryptic Management likes to fix things that ain't broken. There was nothing wrong with the existing console icons.
But take something like the new LoR UI overlays. We got a handful with the launch of LoR, but we won't see more any times soon because that's passe now. We got Fed Blue, KDF Red, Rom Green, TNG, and a handful of green and red variants for some races...
I'd love to see overlays for every playable race in the game, or at least for every playable ship-race. Adding Vulcan and Andorian themed ones (with matching "font" accents), for example.
That would be an awesome use of TtC's time, vs. revamping icons that didn't need changing.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
While I fully accept that 75% of feedback posts are just nerd rage about people not wanting a change and so not caring about the reasons for the change, that other 25% might have some good ideas if the Devs give the players time to actually post them, and took the time to consider them.
And yet you continue to miss the overview. The Art Department is not just 'already there.' Rather, it exists because management decided so, and that it should have size X. The same management which decided the bug-fix department should have size Y. And if indeed the guys at the Art Department have so little to do, that they start overhauling a system which was about the very *last* thing in this game that needed 'fixing,' then all that really tells me, is that management alloted too many resources to X, and not to Y. Which is all the more frustrating, as it's clearly Y that people, overwhelmingly, want to see resources spent on foremost.
But we probably will keep going in circles at this. So, let's simply stick to the fact that the new icons are hard, and sometimes very hard, to distinguish from one another.
And sometimes, even if it pains you, you just have to be the person that says: "Look, John, you're a great artist; and the pictures look gorgeous! But, erm, they're sadly not entirely suitable for icons."
Typical STO forum: Cryptic changes something and some segment of the fan-base nerd rages about it for a few weeks and then its forgotten and people get on with their lives. Remember all the nerd rage over Cryptic changing the Dilithium values so people earned less? What became of that? It's been a month since all the nerd rage to the changes to Tour the Galaxy. What became of that?
My only real issue with it is that the colours are rather muted. Its more like the artist went for pretty pastels and not enough bold colour and high contrast. I can't work out what half of my consoles are any more I have to mouse over them. Makes loot drops somewhat confusing too when I see something now its a case of "Hey is this something new? Nope its the same old junk with a new look".:P
Also the item rarity colour seriously needs boosting. So I can see easily whats green, blue or purple.
I'm not going to complain about the artists doing this but I have to ask myself why they felt the need to change things.
"You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon, taH pagh, taH be"
People are still upset about the Tour the Galaxy, it would seem; but there comes a point where you realize, your protests despite, that Cryptic will ignore the complaints, no matter what. Doesn't mean, at all, that people are now okay with it -- it just means they realize they're being ignored.
Will legitimate concerns about the new icons be ignored as well?! If the devs are anything like you, and just regard people as 'nerd raging' idiots, then probably yeah. Here's to hoping they will listen, though, and take people's honest feedback to heart. It's a slim hope, I know; but, as Captain Sheridan once said: "Yeah; well, I've never known hope when it wasn't on a diet."
"Do not fix what isn't broken"
tough i fell the same - i fell a little bit confused too, but to be honest, i dont think devs will create a little button to activate the old icons.
That's me !
I think we all realize they won't change them back...
http://twitter.com/AGNT009/status/370657263801073665/photo/1
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
by the way...how many participated in this poll ?
what do you suppose it's percentage to the current playerbase of STO is ?
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
I will undoubtedly adapt to know visually the new icons exactly as I did before.
The art styling itself is purely subjective. My observation would be at the resolutions I use, they're too busy with detail for being an icon. It washes out their distinct shapes so they just appear as various oblong blobs of color.
Which is unfortunate because there's a lot going on in those pixels representative of how form follows function. It's very good work imo.
They're new, you'll get used to them and memorise them just as well as the old ones.
The old ones are dead and not coming back, adapt.
I know that there only a few people active in the forum. But the reaction in chat on server was similar. Especially about the tactical and engineering consoles. There is an update required. On the other new icons we can get used.
When they change them again from these ones I can guarantee people will be calling for these ones back again.
When the new UI was introduced with the launch of LoR there was calls for the old one to be put back, they have now died out. This time next week or the week after there will be no mention of the icon change on the forum, unless of course it's a dev or Brandon etc.
The new Sci console items look good and some even better, but all new consoles are flawed when it comes to being easy to recognize and easy to discern quality levels
For Sci consoles with blue background its often hard to tell if they are green, blue or purple quality and all tac consoles look very samey and the engineering consoles are a mess.
I am not pleased with the new looks and it is not only a matter of "getting used to it". We can for sure get used to it, but this was no change for the better of STO.
I really miss the old tac console looks, the new ones are not nice.
I am 30% blind with a full spectrum stage 1 monochromacity in both eyes.
Take a picture, any picture. Go into Adobe Photoshop, turn the brightness and contrast down by about 25%, turn the saturation down by about 41%, go into filters and gaussian blur the image at a 2.0 pixel radius.
Now, with that type of vision try and distinguish these new icons.
You are DAMN RIGHT I am going to complain.
What Thomas did was not a great thing, what Thomas did was ignore the one single all abiding law which governs all graphics UI artists of the game industry. He made the icons look similar without putting some sort of high contrast variances somewhere in the mix for the visually impaired. I am guessing he didn't do any sort of internship at one of the big three before Cryptic hired him, otherwise this mistake would never have made it off of his 1st stage planning board.
Forward to a stage where they should put a big sign on the log in screen soon saying "Partially sighted? Sorry, your not welcome in this game".
I am partially sighted, and i LITERALLY cannot tell the difference between the tac consoles now.
Well given Cosmic has already mentioned there has been some hints that changes are to come I would say not. Maybe he would be kind enough to link to it, given it might easilly have been missed with the thread mergers that have happened.
The new icons take away ease of use. They have no positive redeeming value unless the intent is to confuse the established player base, or make mismatched console-to-weapon mistakes more commonplace.
I prefer the old icons because they were easily identifiable at a quick glace. Instead of completely replacing the old icon with a generic studded cylinder, why not retain the original picture but use another corner symbol or corner color code? Red vs. Yellow vs. Blue corner tags would work fine. The background can still retain its white, green, blue, purple, or indigo color to represent rarity.
I love the smell of fanbois in the evening. See I can throw an insult to invalidate your opinion too. Does it actually invalidate it? Nope not really and neither does your stupid QQing thing to others' genuine concerns.
Have you seen the comments from people who have sight problems? Even some of us who do not have such problems, for example colour blindness, are having problems because not only are the console too alike in some areas, then throw in department colour splash and "rarity" splash and it makes it more difficult.
Basically take them to grey scale and if you can't tell the difference then it is a bad icon. Such icons are meant to tell at a glance what is what. Pretty colours are just a bonus. Take a look at your fire control icons when they are not lit up, you can see what is a dual beam bank, what is a cannon, what is a beam array, what is a torp and even which type, and so on just from the greyed icons.
they kinda smell just like haters don't they ?
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Quoting out of context a wonderful thing to do. Take it in the whole and you will see I say neither has the upper hand.
The new images are nearly identical to each other except for color. This means that those afflicted by red/green color blindness have little to fall back on other than the tool tip.
Based on the above, the new icons take away functionality. How can this possibly be a step in the right direction?
What did the other 4 want?