I like playing with germans and I like the language, however I hate the germans need to use voice actors on star trek shows they are not bad, they are unusable and outcome is borderline of being a sacrilege,
I didn't say that. I said that there is no requirement for anyone to understand, listen or speak to you at any point in the game as you quoted. I assume you understand what this means.
Sure it might make things a little more difficult and be less than ideal in some circumstances. But it's not a requirement and it certainly shouldn't be a requirement that everyone who plays this game across the world be forced to speak English or only be able to team with themselves.
Even if you got your wish, you could still end up with people that don't listen or speak to you and you wouldn't have benefited. So what's the point?
At the end of the day, your wish is already in the game in the form of private queues. You could find a fleet or group and team with them. You choose not to, for whatever reason and your choices have consequences. If you can't understand that then you probably shouldn't be playing a game with other people in the first place.
It's the problem with having a universal game with a single shard you're going to get people from other countries who speak other languages and there really isn't a fix. It happens all the time in other games, Defiance for example has a single shard and has people from all over the place playing it as well.
Then you need to work on your reading comprehension.
Perhaps I do; as a practicing lawyer it's always good to ensure that I read things thoroughly before constructing arguments based on the facts I am presented with. Which, by the way is what I did.
Perhaps I do; as a practicing lawyer it's always good to ensure that I read things thoroughly before constructing arguments based on the facts I am presented with. Which, by the way is what I did.
To be fair a lot of folks go into law as a profession because they are by nature reflexively tendentious and adversarial.
Or as they are called in the non-legal world, concern trolls.
Seriously, there is nothing wrong with having a language preference for teaming. There are already features like that in STO, fleets for example.
Back to humor though, and because it is traditional whenever some poor German speaker says anything in zone chat, a Fawlty Towers quote: "Basil Fawlty: [two guests are speaking to Basil in German] Oh, German. I'm sorry, I THOUGHT there was something wrong with you."
German and English share some of their roots, however English is far more bastardised than that; we've stolen French, Latin, and some Gaelic here and there. And as I said, I can understand the kind of simple German phrases I might need should I ever meet a German in real life, however phrases like "Take your Starship over there and use a tractor beam on that Klingon cruiser whilst the two of us hold off the carrier pets" is rather specialised. And I don't really have the time to put into studying that,
you know a MMO has an extremely low player base when a reply encourages you to take up the basics of a foreign language so you could better play a game with others developed in NA.
4. Your original post refers to all Germans. You have used a national identity to justify a prejudice against playing with a certain group of people. That is de facto racism based on the nationality of the persons involved. It logically follows that discrimination against players of a specific language or preference for one specific language above all others is also racism.
I don't know what book you got that from or if the definitions have change in the last 30 or 40 years and I was never told but a nationality is not a race. you cant discriminate against a race of Germans because their is no such thing. to acknowledge the Germans as a race you are the one sounding like Hitler.
im not defending the op here I think its pretty much a non issue, to many work around and or just happens so rarely it is not worth the time. but changing the meaning of words and rewriting history just to fit into a political viewpoint is wrong. and I don't think he was being racist or even prejudice, just a overreaction.
Racism
1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others.
2. abusive or aggressive behavior towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief.
maybe this would better apply
prejudice
unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
So either the OP made no attempt to communicate with his German team mates or they didn't want him on the team in the first place and ignored him.
Now I won't presume to guess which actually happened but, I will make the observation that the OP has ignored both posts that point out that English is a mandatory language taught in Germany.
That's very presumptuous of you, seeing as I didn't mention what actions I took to remedy the situation (I did in fact tell my team mates that I didn't speak German, the only reply I got was from someone on the other team who replied that they didn't either). Also, I did not ignore posts that mentioned German people learn English whilst at school, I merely had nothing to say on the matter. I learned French and Spanish at school; however, it would be unwise to put me in a position where I would be required to communicate with a Spaniard, as whilst I speak quite adequate French, I have forgotten almost all the Spanish I was taught.
Wrong. Please take your pathetic attempts at doom elsewhere. .
only a fanboi would respond to such a level.
It is a fact. When you end up grouping with other players from other nations, chances are there not enough players in your region to facilitate a game play.
Now, if that hurts your feelings, then I suggest you not to read my post.
I am a trekkie. Ive played this game for awhile but at least I can admit this game is suffering regarding the staff numbers for STO. Even Taco admitted there isn't enough development personnel to implement what they want to get done. Is it on it's last legs? No. It's not. When a small playerbase pumps in more money into this game, it will keep on trucking. I know someone in my fleet who spent 400 bucks just this year alone. Players like that will keep this game alive.
HOWEVER, a playerbase does not increase in size when people put hundreds of dollars a year into this game. A game with decent missions and gameplay will grow the playerbase. This game does not have a decent engine nor does it have awesome missions (for the exception of some Romulan newer content). I mean, it's sad when the only quests where you ACTUALLY see another player as you do your quests is on Nimbus III. Everything else is a glorified SP game where people can meet up together at starbases to pick up quests and then go back to SP again.
Like I said, if this hurts your feelings, then don't respond to my comments. You have the ability to ignore them.
While it is true that more people speak Mandarin, It's also true that thanks to the British Empire, English is the most widely spread language spoken in the world. Which means you are far more likely to encounter someone that speaks English in other countries than you are Mandarin.
But I'm not surprised a lawyer would try to twist the facts to suit his own ends.
You're thinking of an American lawyer. In British jurisprudence the facts stand on their own merits, it's testimony that we use to TRIBBLE people over :P
EDIT: It's Sunday, I can't be bothered to grammar...
as I mentioned before, if you don't like what I posted, then you do not have to respond.
Fanbois have blinders over their eyes. They become so defensive when anyone remotely criticizes their beloved game and they refuse to see any issues before them. They see criticism as a personal attack, they see people suggesting better implementations as a fifth grade show down in the lunch hall. At least people have figured out that fanbois are a big reason why games fail.
Hopefully, the development team will increase in size. But they are managed by PerfectWorld, so I doubt it.
I love the German players. Don't take away my friends.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I don't know what book you got that from or if the definitions have change in the last 30 or 40 years and I was never told but a nationality is not a race. you cant discriminate against a race of Germans because their is no such thing. to acknowledge the Germans as a race you are the one sounding like Hitler.
im not defending the op here I think its pretty much a non issue, to many work around and or just happens so rarely it is not worth the time. but changing the meaning of words and rewriting history just to fit into a political viewpoint is wrong. and I don't think he was being racist or even prejudice, just a overreaction.
Racism
1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others.
2. abusive or aggressive behavior towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief.
maybe this would better apply
prejudice
unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
racism can be connected to people of a specific nationality:
"Some definitions of racism also include discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes."
I thinks that's what he meant and I feel ti somehow fits in this case.
I think not wiki is written by just people submitting info. just because a group of people start using the word incorrectly does not make it so. but reading that wiki article does support my argument. just read the fisrts few lines nation has nothing to do with biology.
but given enough time of people using it wrong I guess it can become so just look at rainforest nd how its used these days. when I went to school a rainforest was a temprate forest. like in Washington state.
now its used for freaking jungles. and why? because nobody would donate money to save the jungle. so the proper word was stolen and misused.
changing the word of race to include a nationality is just incorrect.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
I thinks that's what he meant and I feel ti somehow fits in this case.
I really don't think it does fit in this case, as the matter only concerns language. No one is saying that Germans shouldn't be allowed to play with everyone else (again, I like the Germans), what I'm saying is that if two people don't have a common language, it causes communication issues, which in turn cause team co-ordination issues.
Okay, so what's to stop people from selecting "English" as their language group so they will get access to more people in the PvP queue and still speaking in their native tongue?
Nothing, and now you mention it, I can envision it would simply be another problem to solve. My solution was just an idea, I'm sure there are better ones (in fact someone mentioned having in game command that automatically appear in native languages to avoid communication issues, and I think that's much better than my idea).
Or...you could learn at least a few words and concepts to at least know the general of what they are telling you. German and English even share the same base...
Yeah, Latin.
Most western languages are derived from Latin. Doesn't make them easy to learn.
And to use the OP's example. German is not the easiest language to read. SPoken German is a little easier.
Most western languages are derived from Latin. Doesn't make them easy to learn.
And to use the OP's example. German is not the easiest language to read. SPoken German is a little easier.
Whereas I agree with most of what you say, the inner nerd in me feels compelled to point out that Latin is not the root of German. In fact in antiquity the Germanic language was the direct competitor to Latin; that's why the German words for things are often so radically different from English, French, Spanish or Italian.
Whereas I agree with most of what you say, the inner nerd in me feels compelled to point out that Latin is not the root of German. In fact in antiquity the Germanic language was the direct competitor to Latin; that's why the German words for things are often so radically different from English, French, Spanish or Italian.
Sorry, but my inner nerd is compelled to point out that technically, English is a West Germanic language. This is part of why the grammatical structure of the German language is a bit easier to understand for English speakers than that of French, Italian or Spanish.
Of course, I have forgotten most of what I knew of German due to lack or use. STO has reminded me what "Hilfe!" translates to, though, thanks to ground missions.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
I don't know what book you got that from or if the definitions have change in the last 30 or 40 years and I was never told but a nationality is not a race. you cant discriminate against a race of Germans because their is no such thing. to acknowledge the Germans as a race you are the one sounding like Hitler.
Perhaps your 30 or 40 year old definition is out of date as these things do change.
The book I got that from:
"Racism" in R. Schaefer. 2008 Encyclopedia of Race, Ethnicity and Society. SAGE. p. 1113
Further reading: United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination
"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life"
NB: The inclusion of the words national or ethnic origin. Which means that if you discriminate against someone on the basis of their country of origin, as the OP did in his thread(now conveniently edited and renamed, wonder why they did that?) is racism.
Most western languages are derived from Latin. Doesn't make them easy to learn.
And to use the OP's example. German is not the easiest language to read. SPoken German is a little easier.
Although others already said it, I wasn't referring to latin, but to west-germanic. And the differences are quite obvious even to people who know nothing of a language and it's structure, just by looking at it.
If someone shows you italian, spanish, portuguese and even romanian (which is not geographically neighbour to the other ones) you will immediately see very obvious similarities. Then there is french, which is also very similar, but the most different of the ones I mentioned.
Then you look at english and german and you see the similarities fade away from these languages but keep similarities with each other. But yes, they are still considerably more different from one another than the latin languages I spoke of. If you put a portuguese an italian and a spanish in the same room they will be able to communicate with greater ease. If you do the same in another room by putting a german and an english it will not be as easy.
But I didn't say it was easy, I just implied it is easier because the structure is more similar.
it's not the germans I have a problem with..... it's those damn Klingons I can't understand.....
....
Wish more people typed in Klingon in-game, It'd give me an excuse to become more proficient at it.
Then again, given the differences between Klingon as opposed to any other language. . .typing it out quickly without horribly mangling it would take some practice. . .
Comments
That is also a damn fine suggestion, and one that I heartily endorse.
Sure it might make things a little more difficult and be less than ideal in some circumstances. But it's not a requirement and it certainly shouldn't be a requirement that everyone who plays this game across the world be forced to speak English or only be able to team with themselves.
Even if you got your wish, you could still end up with people that don't listen or speak to you and you wouldn't have benefited. So what's the point?
At the end of the day, your wish is already in the game in the form of private queues. You could find a fleet or group and team with them. You choose not to, for whatever reason and your choices have consequences. If you can't understand that then you probably shouldn't be playing a game with other people in the first place.
....
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
You did. I quoted you saying it.
Perhaps I do; as a practicing lawyer it's always good to ensure that I read things thoroughly before constructing arguments based on the facts I am presented with. Which, by the way is what I did.
- Someone makes a reasonable enhancement request
- Concern trolls erupt
- PROFIT!
To be fair a lot of folks go into law as a profession because they are by nature reflexively tendentious and adversarial.Or as they are called in the non-legal world, concern trolls.
Seriously, there is nothing wrong with having a language preference for teaming. There are already features like that in STO, fleets for example.
Back to humor though, and because it is traditional whenever some poor German speaker says anything in zone chat, a Fawlty Towers quote: "Basil Fawlty: [two guests are speaking to Basil in German] Oh, German. I'm sorry, I THOUGHT there was something wrong with you."
you know a MMO has an extremely low player base when a reply encourages you to take up the basics of a foreign language so you could better play a game with others developed in NA.
I don't know what book you got that from or if the definitions have change in the last 30 or 40 years and I was never told but a nationality is not a race. you cant discriminate against a race of Germans because their is no such thing. to acknowledge the Germans as a race you are the one sounding like Hitler.
im not defending the op here I think its pretty much a non issue, to many work around and or just happens so rarely it is not worth the time. but changing the meaning of words and rewriting history just to fit into a political viewpoint is wrong. and I don't think he was being racist or even prejudice, just a overreaction.
Racism
1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others.
2. abusive or aggressive behavior towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief.
maybe this would better apply
prejudice
unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
That's very presumptuous of you, seeing as I didn't mention what actions I took to remedy the situation (I did in fact tell my team mates that I didn't speak German, the only reply I got was from someone on the other team who replied that they didn't either). Also, I did not ignore posts that mentioned German people learn English whilst at school, I merely had nothing to say on the matter. I learned French and Spanish at school; however, it would be unwise to put me in a position where I would be required to communicate with a Spaniard, as whilst I speak quite adequate French, I have forgotten almost all the Spanish I was taught.
only a fanboi would respond to such a level.
It is a fact. When you end up grouping with other players from other nations, chances are there not enough players in your region to facilitate a game play.
Now, if that hurts your feelings, then I suggest you not to read my post.
I am a trekkie. Ive played this game for awhile but at least I can admit this game is suffering regarding the staff numbers for STO. Even Taco admitted there isn't enough development personnel to implement what they want to get done. Is it on it's last legs? No. It's not. When a small playerbase pumps in more money into this game, it will keep on trucking. I know someone in my fleet who spent 400 bucks just this year alone. Players like that will keep this game alive.
HOWEVER, a playerbase does not increase in size when people put hundreds of dollars a year into this game. A game with decent missions and gameplay will grow the playerbase. This game does not have a decent engine nor does it have awesome missions (for the exception of some Romulan newer content). I mean, it's sad when the only quests where you ACTUALLY see another player as you do your quests is on Nimbus III. Everything else is a glorified SP game where people can meet up together at starbases to pick up quests and then go back to SP again.
Like I said, if this hurts your feelings, then don't respond to my comments. You have the ability to ignore them.
I know, I was making a joke of sorts!
I am writing in english after all
You're thinking of an American lawyer. In British jurisprudence the facts stand on their own merits, it's testimony that we use to TRIBBLE people over :P
EDIT: It's Sunday, I can't be bothered to grammar...
Fanbois have blinders over their eyes. They become so defensive when anyone remotely criticizes their beloved game and they refuse to see any issues before them. They see criticism as a personal attack, they see people suggesting better implementations as a fifth grade show down in the lunch hall. At least people have figured out that fanbois are a big reason why games fail.
Hopefully, the development team will increase in size. But they are managed by PerfectWorld, so I doubt it.
It's a sad disorder.
my sentiments exactly.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
racism can be connected to people of a specific nationality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
"Some definitions of racism also include discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes."
I thinks that's what he meant and I feel ti somehow fits in this case.
I think not wiki is written by just people submitting info. just because a group of people start using the word incorrectly does not make it so. but reading that wiki article does support my argument. just read the fisrts few lines nation has nothing to do with biology.
but given enough time of people using it wrong I guess it can become so just look at rainforest nd how its used these days. when I went to school a rainforest was a temprate forest. like in Washington state.
now its used for freaking jungles. and why? because nobody would donate money to save the jungle. so the proper word was stolen and misused.
changing the word of race to include a nationality is just incorrect.
I really don't think it does fit in this case, as the matter only concerns language. No one is saying that Germans shouldn't be allowed to play with everyone else (again, I like the Germans), what I'm saying is that if two people don't have a common language, it causes communication issues, which in turn cause team co-ordination issues.
Nothing, and now you mention it, I can envision it would simply be another problem to solve. My solution was just an idea, I'm sure there are better ones (in fact someone mentioned having in game command that automatically appear in native languages to avoid communication issues, and I think that's much better than my idea).
Yeah, Latin.
Most western languages are derived from Latin. Doesn't make them easy to learn.
And to use the OP's example. German is not the easiest language to read. SPoken German is a little easier.
Whereas I agree with most of what you say, the inner nerd in me feels compelled to point out that Latin is not the root of German. In fact in antiquity the Germanic language was the direct competitor to Latin; that's why the German words for things are often so radically different from English, French, Spanish or Italian.
Sorry, but my inner nerd is compelled to point out that technically, English is a West Germanic language. This is part of why the grammatical structure of the German language is a bit easier to understand for English speakers than that of French, Italian or Spanish.
Of course, I have forgotten most of what I knew of German due to lack or use. STO has reminded me what "Hilfe!" translates to, though, thanks to ground missions.
Perhaps your 30 or 40 year old definition is out of date as these things do change.
The book I got that from:
"Racism" in R. Schaefer. 2008 Encyclopedia of Race, Ethnicity and Society. SAGE. p. 1113
Further reading: United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination
"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life"
NB: The inclusion of the words national or ethnic origin. Which means that if you discriminate against someone on the basis of their country of origin, as the OP did in his thread(now conveniently edited and renamed, wonder why they did that?) is racism.
Although others already said it, I wasn't referring to latin, but to west-germanic. And the differences are quite obvious even to people who know nothing of a language and it's structure, just by looking at it.
If someone shows you italian, spanish, portuguese and even romanian (which is not geographically neighbour to the other ones) you will immediately see very obvious similarities. Then there is french, which is also very similar, but the most different of the ones I mentioned.
Then you look at english and german and you see the similarities fade away from these languages but keep similarities with each other. But yes, they are still considerably more different from one another than the latin languages I spoke of. If you put a portuguese an italian and a spanish in the same room they will be able to communicate with greater ease. If you do the same in another room by putting a german and an english it will not be as easy.
But I didn't say it was easy, I just implied it is easier because the structure is more similar.
Wish more people typed in Klingon in-game, It'd give me an excuse to become more proficient at it.
Then again, given the differences between Klingon as opposed to any other language. . .typing it out quickly without horribly mangling it would take some practice. . .