The bridge is unique? I don't think so. It looks near identical to the federation USS Relativity (NCV-474439-G)'s bridge from (VOY: "Relativity" Season 5 episode 24). Maybe you guys meant it's unique to STO, I don't know...
When Cryptic's ship ads say the ship has a "Unique Bridge" they don't necessarily mean the bridge was made-up from thin air. In fact, they often intentionallytry to replicate (or be inspired by) a bridge seen in a canon show/movie.
They only mean that the ship does not use one of the faction-standard bridge layouts, and that the bridge is unique the new ship (ie the only way to get this Romulan Timeship Bridge is on the Romulan Timeship).
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
The bridge is unique? I don't think so. It looks near identical to the federation USS Relativity (NCV-474439-G)'s bridge from (VOY: "Relativity" Season 5 episode 24). Maybe you guys meant it's unique to STO, I don't know. Still these ships look awesome! Can't wait.
The bridge has been in use within STO for both the Wells class and Korath class vessels, the unique part is that it's in a different colour. Not truly unique, but enough for advertisement purposes. It's like when a phone company has a "unique" version of a phone, the specs are the same the shape and size are the same but the colour is different.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I think your point is invalid, since there is no area of ground combat which renders the Klingon trait useless. :P
I don't think you understand the original disagreement. He state the romulan space trait was useless based upon the TIMESHIP, so please enlighten me how the KDF ground trait is useful on the timeship?
Really? You just had to pour oil just to get the last word like that? *sigh*
I'll tell them that I don't feel they made the right call here. I'm hardly the only one that believes so. To Cryptic, this tells them something: identity is an important part of a starship and they've successfully implemented singularity cores and cloaking as part of this 'Romulan ship identity'. Despite the complaints over the performance of a singularity core, removing it now feels 'wrong'. Remove the cloak on top of that, and then what you get doesn't really feel like a Romulan ship at all.
Do I think they dropped the ball on something that could've been great? Yes. But I think the protest that rose from this thread in itself was worth airing. Whether they do something about it, or not, has me now beyond caring simply because I got rid of the Temporal Science Vessel I was saving up. So, the matter is closed for me.
I'll keep winging around in my Fleet T'varo. It's not like I wasn't already satisfied with it. I was just charmed by the idea of actually using my science captain in a heavy-duty romulan science ship - but lacking a cloaking device, it's not romulan to me. Might as well be a vulcan temporal ship (reunified romulan/vulcans by that point?) or some other alien-ship-of-the-week for all I care about it now.
I have no problems with you disagreeing that the ship doesn't feel like a Romulan ship. And you're right, it doesn't. But like I said on my first reply, if that's the case, the KDF timeship doesn't feel like a klingon ship, and you replied that you don't care about the KDF side. So why should Cryptic listen to your bias suggestions?
@archoncryptic: Correct me if I'm wrong because it's been some time since I've seen the Enterprise episode you reference, but the Hobus Supernova and subsequent formation of the Romulan Republic never existed prior to the Countdown comics and 2009 Star Trek movie.
There has never been a precedence in Star Trek where an alliance resulted in entire bridge designs and core systems being shared other than the gift of a cloaking device for the Defiant by the Romulans to use against the Dominion.
I appreciate that you came on here and explained the rational behind some of the design decisions for the Romulan timeship, but like the Klingon Temporal ships, there are several aspects of the ships that should have remained uniquely faction based. Yes balance is important, but there has to be a line between balance and sticking to established strengths/weaknesses of each faction.
There is nothing unique about the bridge at all, simply changing colors and a couple of parts of the console displays is NOT unique.
I don't think you understand the original disagreement. He state the romulan space trait was useless based upon the TIMESHIP, so please enlighten me how the KDF ground trait is useful on the timeship?
I understood it perfectly, but the comparison you made doesn't work. The Romulan species trait is of no use in a Romulan vessel which doesn't have a cloaking device, the Klingon species trait doesn't have any bearing on the subject at hand.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
the rise of the Romulan Republic and its relationship with the Federation make it logical to assume that in the distant future, Romulans will be sharing technology with many species, including those with warp cores.
no its logical to assume that the Fauxpublic was a short lived failed experiment and real Romulans took over and restored our culture to its former glory. The Fauxpublic makes no sense and no Romulan would follow D'Tan, align with Klingons or become Federation Lackeys. There is and entire quadrent full of large Romulan planents and there is was no need to even settle some backwoods world in Klingon space. Anyone running around wearing scarves and rags and whining about having dirt to eat have never heard of replicators and are probably social deviants.
More than likely D'Tan gets assinated and the power moves back to the actual homeworld of Rator.
I understood it perfectly, but the comparison you made doesn't work. The Romulan species trait is of no use in a Romulan vessel which doesn't have a cloaking device, the Klingon species trait doesn't have any bearing on the subject at hand.
No you don't, you're still dodging the question, how is KDF initial trait useful in a TIMESHIP? We're not discussing about trait vs trait, we're talking about the timeship, which this thread is about. Please stick to the subject at hand.
We discussed whether or not the Romulan Temporal Ships should have singularity cores quite at length. In fact, I actually built them to have all the Singularity mechanics and Romulan Battle Cloaking and changed it later on in the design process - so, it's not an issue of laziness or copy and paste.
We chose to go with the Matter/Antimatter core for a number of reasons.
1. Precedent. The Klingon Temporal Ships came with identical stats to the Federation counterparts and did not have Cloaking (unlike the Klingon veteran ship, which did have Cloaking in exchange for lower shields).
Giving the Singularity mechanics and Romulan Battle Cloak to the Romulan ship would have made them the only distinct model, which may have come across as unfair to Klingon players. That would have left us with the options to keep the Klingon version as-is and potentially leave Klingon players feeling left in the dust, or to give the Klingon ships Cloaking and cut down something in exchange - which might have frustrated *other* players, who didn't like their stats being changed later.
We also could have buffed the Federation version in some way and given the Klingon version Cloak at the same time, but that would set a dangerous precedent for power creep, and the Temporal ships are already very powerful.
2. Continuity. By the Battle of Procyon V in the 26th century (ENT Azati Prime), the Federation has allied with many of its former enemies, notably the Klingons and the Xindi. (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Battle_of_Procyon_V)
While Romulan ships are not specifically seen on screen in that battle (and a 300-year old Nova design is), the rise of the Romulan Republic and its relationship with the Federation make it logical to assume that in the distant future, Romulans will be sharing technology with many species, including those with warp cores.
3. Players have been asking for Romulan ships that do not have the lower base Warbird power levels since the launch of Legacy of Romulus. These ships allow us to provide that as an option that makes sense within the IP.
It was a tough call. We knew that some people would want prefer the ships to have Singularity Cores and some people would prefer for the ships to have Matter/Antimatter Cores. Ultimately, we made the decision that we felt would be the most balanced, consistent, and appropriate to the IP.
Thanks for sharing your reasoning (and not just a half-hearted fogging off either). Communication ftw.
I might have missed this through the posts or it was deleted or never commented about..... However, "rewind time approximately 13 seconds." "beryllium cylinder core", did someone watch Galaxy Quest recently?
Klingon racial is a ground trait, the Romulan racial trait is space and ground meaning their racial trait effectiveness is lost, Klingons dont lose anything because they never had it but we have other KDF races with Space Traits, like Liberated Borg Klingon or Joined Trill.
Aliens and Liberated Borg Romulan can use the Timeship if they are careful with trait selection, Reman are in the exact same place as Klingons as their racial is ground.
However, Romulans only have 3 races compared with Starfleet 18 and KDF 9, also this makes Warbird consoles useless with 2 exceptions because they function in relation to Singularity abilities.
I am being objective here, these are facts ... talking about racial traits is irrelevant when your ground trait still works but your space trait doesnt, in fact this would easy be solved if they extended the Racial to cover "Mask Energy Signature".
Thank you, I was going to give up there haha.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
We discussed whether or not the Romulan Temporal Ships should have singularity cores quite at length. In fact, I actually built them to have all the Singularity mechanics and Romulan Battle Cloaking and changed it later on in the design process - so, it's not an issue of laziness or copy and paste.
We chose to go with the Matter/Antimatter core for a number of reasons.
1. Precedent. The Klingon Temporal Ships came with identical stats to the Federation counterparts and did not have Cloaking (unlike the Klingon veteran ship, which did have Cloaking in exchange for lower shields).
Giving the Singularity mechanics and Romulan Battle Cloak to the Romulan ship would have made them the only distinct model, which may have come across as unfair to Klingon players. That would have left us with the options to keep the Klingon version as-is and potentially leave Klingon players feeling left in the dust, or to give the Klingon ships Cloaking and cut down something in exchange - which might have frustrated *other* players, who didn't like their stats being changed later.
We also could have buffed the Federation version in some way and given the Klingon version Cloak at the same time, but that would set a dangerous precedent for power creep, and the Temporal ships are already very powerful.
2. Continuity. By the Battle of Procyon V in the 26th century (ENT Azati Prime), the Federation has allied with many of its former enemies, notably the Klingons and the Xindi. (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Battle_of_Procyon_V)
While Romulan ships are not specifically seen on screen in that battle (and a 300-year old Nova design is), the rise of the Romulan Republic and its relationship with the Federation make it logical to assume that in the distant future, Romulans will be sharing technology with many species, including those with warp cores.
3. Players have been asking for Romulan ships that do not have the lower base Warbird power levels since the launch of Legacy of Romulus. These ships allow us to provide that as an option that makes sense within the IP.
It was a tough call. We knew that some people would want prefer the ships to have Singularity Cores and some people would prefer for the ships to have Matter/Antimatter Cores. Ultimately, we made the decision that we felt would be the most balanced, consistent, and appropriate to the IP.
1. Precedent: not convincing, there is a precedent that Romulan ships have Singularity cores and cloaking devices, also the ships do not have to have a battle cloak, a basic cloak would be fine. Typically the regular cloaking device ships have very little downplaying of power such as the shield modifier and hull health.
2. Continuity: You expect continuity in an MMO? besides, these ships weren't even shown, if you wanted continuity you would have just made the ships for the Romulans the allied ships instead of going with this route.
3. I don't even know why this applies, people who want that can go for the special lockbox ships and then will have the higher power levels AND can use the Superior Romulan Operative traited officers to make up for the loss of that battle cloaks we all love.
Klingon racial is a ground trait, the Romulan racial trait is space and ground meaning their racial trait effectiveness is lost, Klingons dont lose anything because they never had it but we have other KDF races with Space Traits, like Liberated Borg Klingon or Joined Trill.
Aliens and Liberated Borg Romulan can use the Timeship if they are careful with trait selection, Reman are in the exact same place as Klingons as their racial is ground.
However, Romulans only have 3 races compared with Starfleet 18 and KDF 9, also this makes Warbird consoles useless with 2 exceptions because they function in relation to Singularity abilities.
I am being objective here, these are facts ... talking about racial traits is irrelevant when your ground trait still works but your space trait doesnt, in fact this would easy be solved if they extended the Racial to cover "Mask Energy Signature".
I grow tired of this arguement. Again it's about the ship, not about your trait. You could easily pick the ALIEN/REMAN species for romulan (and still gained no space benefit) but you CHOSE NOT to. YOU WANT THE SHIP TO BENEFIT from YOUR RACE TRAIT of your Chosen Race, why should cryptic do that? As for the console, do your think the FED/KDF should have their own KDF/FED only console (cuz they can't use the warbird console, although romulans can use FED/KDF) for the Timeship? Timeship is NOT meant to benefit the ROMULANS, please UNDERSTAND that.
Timeship is NOT meant to benefit the ROMULANS, please UNDERSTAND that.
Zactly. I'm glad the devs chose a 'neutral' Matter-Antimatter warp core: that way having a Timeship of your faction amounts to little more than just having it in different shape/colors. You can't get more even-handed than that.
Nothing unique other than the skin and it took how long to get this out to the players?
Very sad day for players in general. No ship should be copy and paste in this game as each should be unique for the players and their factions. This copy paste method is the approach Cryptic continues to take on their game and is really disappointing to see over and over again.
While I don't play KDF I feel even their version should be unique for them and include a cloak as well. Cryptic you should really take a step back and think things through before coming up with such garbage as the lack of imagination is killing your game. Simply put stop copy and pasting the entire game.
Long story short I will stick with my pay2win ship :P
-Ferengi 1, "I have an idea to make a killer Profit! We'll take a couple of the Fed/KDF Temporal Ships we have in inventory, modify the hulls to something that'll appeal to the Romulans and open up a new customer base."
-Ferengi 2, "Won't the Romulans be able to tell the difference?"
-Ferengi 1, "That's the beauty of it, they'll be so surprised and desperate to get hold of them they won't know the difference till its too late, besides they'll technically be Temporal Ships which is the only guarantee we'll offer."
-Ferengi 2, "We should lobby for a new Rule of Acquisition. Rule of Acquisition 287, If it sounds too good to be true...
-Both Ferengi, "Their'll be a sucker that'll buy it!"
That's hardly a "unique" bridge. And no Singularity cores? Whatever. That's what made them unique, their unique take on warp drives. They look nice, but that's about it.
Lane Bjorn Jorgensson, Captain, ISS Voltaire
Here's a map to show how much they've screwed up the game map.
A solution might be to give them all singularity powers through a unique core. The federation one gets a little more power, the klingon one gets the same power, a cloak, but a shield knock (as that seems normal), and the romulan one gets the singularity powers and a battle cloak.
"..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino
How can they make a Romulan ship and not give it the key feature of a Romulan ship?? No Singularity Core No way in my book. At lease I know I won't need to stress over trying to buy Lock Box Keys this time around.
Fleet Admiral
Task Force Command and Task Force Command KDF
We discussed whether or not the Romulan Temporal Ships should have singularity cores quite at length. In fact, I actually built them to have all the Singularity mechanics and Romulan Battle Cloaking and changed it later on in the design process - so, it's not an issue of laziness or copy and paste.
We chose to go with the Matter/Antimatter core for a number of reasons.
1. Precedent. The Klingon Temporal Ships came with identical stats to the Federation counterparts and did not have Cloaking (unlike the Klingon veteran ship, which did have Cloaking in exchange for lower shields).
Giving the Singularity mechanics and Romulan Battle Cloak to the Romulan ship would have made them the only distinct model, which may have come across as unfair to Klingon players. That would have left us with the options to keep the Klingon version as-is and potentially leave Klingon players feeling left in the dust, or to give the Klingon ships Cloaking and cut down something in exchange - which might have frustrated *other* players, who didn't like their stats being changed later.
We also could have buffed the Federation version in some way and given the Klingon version Cloak at the same time, but that would set a dangerous precedent for power creep, and the Temporal ships are already very powerful.
2. Continuity. By the Battle of Procyon V in the 26th century (ENT Azati Prime), the Federation has allied with many of its former enemies, notably the Klingons and the Xindi. (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Battle_of_Procyon_V)
While Romulan ships are not specifically seen on screen in that battle (and a 300-year old Nova design is), the rise of the Romulan Republic and its relationship with the Federation make it logical to assume that in the distant future, Romulans will be sharing technology with many species, including those with warp cores.
3. Players have been asking for Romulan ships that do not have the lower base Warbird power levels since the launch of Legacy of Romulus. These ships allow us to provide that as an option that makes sense within the IP.
It was a tough call. We knew that some people would want prefer the ships to have Singularity Cores and some people would prefer for the ships to have Matter/Antimatter Cores. Ultimately, we made the decision that we felt would be the most balanced, consistent, and appropriate to the IP.
I can understand some of what you are saying, but don't agree. All Klingon ships don't cloak. Just some of them. But, all Romulan ships cloak. A Romulan ship that doesn't cloak simply doesn't match up with the continuity.
You had mentioned that you had an initial idea of having a the temporal ship cloak at the expense of something else. And were considering retro fitting existing ones to match but didn't want to upset players that liked their ships as is and didn't want to see them changed.
Perhaps do it both ways. Have cloaked and non-cloaked version for the Romulans and Klingons. Simple have a vendor set up that allows a one time trade in option. So, the players that want to have cloaked versions can have it. And the players that don't can keep their ships in a non-cloaked fashion.
That's hardly a "unique" bridge. And no Singularity cores? Whatever. That's what made them unique, their unique take on warp drives. They look nice, but that's about it.
Yes ... It would be great ... but if they did this ... I would expect for no less than the same for the KDF ... aka. battle cloak.
Wow, can you say rehashed-money grab? I find it funny the little temporal destroyer is " made for combat" but has no shielding and ****ty engineering. NEXT!!
Wow, can you say rehashed-money grab? I find it funny the little temporal destroyer is " made for combat" but has no shielding and ****ty engineering. NEXT!!
If by no shielding you mean highest shields on an escort in the game and room for more field gens than any as well.
The truth is, these ships are powerful and fun. Look great, and they should all be the same because they all come out of the same box. Love it.
Comments
They only mean that the ship does not use one of the faction-standard bridge layouts, and that the bridge is unique the new ship (ie the only way to get this Romulan Timeship Bridge is on the Romulan Timeship).
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
The bridge has been in use within STO for both the Wells class and Korath class vessels, the unique part is that it's in a different colour. Not truly unique, but enough for advertisement purposes. It's like when a phone company has a "unique" version of a phone, the specs are the same the shape and size are the same but the colour is different.
I don't think you understand the original disagreement. He state the romulan space trait was useless based upon the TIMESHIP, so please enlighten me how the KDF ground trait is useful on the timeship?
I have no problems with you disagreeing that the ship doesn't feel like a Romulan ship. And you're right, it doesn't. But like I said on my first reply, if that's the case, the KDF timeship doesn't feel like a klingon ship, and you replied that you don't care about the KDF side. So why should Cryptic listen to your bias suggestions?
There has never been a precedence in Star Trek where an alliance resulted in entire bridge designs and core systems being shared other than the gift of a cloaking device for the Defiant by the Romulans to use against the Dominion.
I appreciate that you came on here and explained the rational behind some of the design decisions for the Romulan timeship, but like the Klingon Temporal ships, there are several aspects of the ships that should have remained uniquely faction based. Yes balance is important, but there has to be a line between balance and sticking to established strengths/weaknesses of each faction.
There is nothing unique about the bridge at all, simply changing colors and a couple of parts of the console displays is NOT unique.
I understood it perfectly, but the comparison you made doesn't work. The Romulan species trait is of no use in a Romulan vessel which doesn't have a cloaking device, the Klingon species trait doesn't have any bearing on the subject at hand.
sorry but these both seem like a big step down from our other ships... cant say I have the slightest interest.
no its logical to assume that the Fauxpublic was a short lived failed experiment and real Romulans took over and restored our culture to its former glory. The Fauxpublic makes no sense and no Romulan would follow D'Tan, align with Klingons or become Federation Lackeys. There is and entire quadrent full of large Romulan planents and there is was no need to even settle some backwoods world in Klingon space. Anyone running around wearing scarves and rags and whining about having dirt to eat have never heard of replicators and are probably social deviants.
More than likely D'Tan gets assinated and the power moves back to the actual homeworld of Rator.
The Fauxpublic will never last.
No you don't, you're still dodging the question, how is KDF initial trait useful in a TIMESHIP? We're not discussing about trait vs trait, we're talking about the timeship, which this thread is about. Please stick to the subject at hand.
Thanks for sharing your reasoning (and not just a half-hearted fogging off either). Communication ftw.
Do you even Science Bro?
Thank you, I was going to give up there haha.
1. Precedent: not convincing, there is a precedent that Romulan ships have Singularity cores and cloaking devices, also the ships do not have to have a battle cloak, a basic cloak would be fine. Typically the regular cloaking device ships have very little downplaying of power such as the shield modifier and hull health.
2. Continuity: You expect continuity in an MMO? besides, these ships weren't even shown, if you wanted continuity you would have just made the ships for the Romulans the allied ships instead of going with this route.
3. I don't even know why this applies, people who want that can go for the special lockbox ships and then will have the higher power levels AND can use the Superior Romulan Operative traited officers to make up for the loss of that battle cloaks we all love.
I grow tired of this arguement. Again it's about the ship, not about your trait. You could easily pick the ALIEN/REMAN species for romulan (and still gained no space benefit) but you CHOSE NOT to. YOU WANT THE SHIP TO BENEFIT from YOUR RACE TRAIT of your Chosen Race, why should cryptic do that? As for the console, do your think the FED/KDF should have their own KDF/FED only console (cuz they can't use the warbird console, although romulans can use FED/KDF) for the Timeship? Timeship is NOT meant to benefit the ROMULANS, please UNDERSTAND that.
Zactly. I'm glad the devs chose a 'neutral' Matter-Antimatter warp core: that way having a Timeship of your faction amounts to little more than just having it in different shape/colors. You can't get more even-handed than that.
Join date July 08
Very sad day for players in general. No ship should be copy and paste in this game as each should be unique for the players and their factions. This copy paste method is the approach Cryptic continues to take on their game and is really disappointing to see over and over again.
While I don't play KDF I feel even their version should be unique for them and include a cloak as well. Cryptic you should really take a step back and think things through before coming up with such garbage as the lack of imagination is killing your game. Simply put stop copy and pasting the entire game.
Long story short I will stick with my pay2win ship :P
___________
-Ferengi 1, "I have an idea to make a killer Profit! We'll take a couple of the Fed/KDF Temporal Ships we have in inventory, modify the hulls to something that'll appeal to the Romulans and open up a new customer base."
-Ferengi 2, "Won't the Romulans be able to tell the difference?"
-Ferengi 1, "That's the beauty of it, they'll be so surprised and desperate to get hold of them they won't know the difference till its too late, besides they'll technically be Temporal Ships which is the only guarantee we'll offer."
-Ferengi 2, "We should lobby for a new Rule of Acquisition. Rule of Acquisition 287, If it sounds too good to be true...
-Both Ferengi, "Their'll be a sucker that'll buy it!"
Here's a map to show how much they've screwed up the game map.
Task Force Command and Task Force Command KDF
I can understand some of what you are saying, but don't agree. All Klingon ships don't cloak. Just some of them. But, all Romulan ships cloak. A Romulan ship that doesn't cloak simply doesn't match up with the continuity.
You had mentioned that you had an initial idea of having a the temporal ship cloak at the expense of something else. And were considering retro fitting existing ones to match but didn't want to upset players that liked their ships as is and didn't want to see them changed.
Perhaps do it both ways. Have cloaked and non-cloaked version for the Romulans and Klingons. Simple have a vendor set up that allows a one time trade in option. So, the players that want to have cloaked versions can have it. And the players that don't can keep their ships in a non-cloaked fashion.
Yes ... It would be great ... but if they did this ... I would expect for no less than the same for the KDF ... aka. battle cloak.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
The truth is, these ships are powerful and fun. Look great, and they should all be the same because they all come out of the same box. Love it.