Regarding getting away from a fight, there's a relatively straightforward way of doing it that I've seen Federation escorts using, though it'll cost you at least one console slot. Equip the Photonic Displacer and then angle downward and away from the fight and hit evasive maneuvers, EPtE, w/e. I'd use Impulse Capacitance Cell in desperate circumstances (though that will take up a second console slot).
It works almost as well as the battlecloak, IMO.
Or you could just hit Impulse Capacitance Cell or EPtE + Evasive Maneuvers and rocket out of the battlezone (especially if you also have deuterium surplus devices). Even if someone follows you, it buys enough time to get some abilities off cooldown.
Regarding battlecloaking under fire: Traditionally in STO, that would be considered suicide. It's certainly not advisable for a KDF BoP unless you've got it stocked up with armor consoles and hit a nice hull resist buff before cloaking (BFI or Aux-to-SIF 2/3, or Polarize Hull). However, the Romulans have thrown that mechanic completely out the window, thanks to the devs apparently not caring about that vulnerability being necessary to balance out the battlecloak. I've seen Mogais, D'Deridexes, and Scimitars cloak while being shot at with cannons and torps and survive. This is because they have higher hull, primarily. Allows them to take a few extra hits, which is mostly all that's needed to matter. You just have to survive long enough to fully cloak, the hull damage can be repaired innately after you leave Red Alert. As if that weren't bad enough, some damned fool decided that one of the Scimitar variants ought to have secondary shields that somehow work while cloak is active, thereby essentially eliminating any vulnerabilities the battlecloak presents.
I'm all for an integrated regular cloak. The game has set a precedent on the KDF and Rom ships with Cloaking as an integrated ability, so there's really no reason for the Fed ships to have an arbitrary restriction on their Cloaks.
Only three Fed ships have the ability to Cloak anyway (currently, just one Fleet ship), putting a console penalty on top of this seems rather unnecessary given the Cloaking freedom the other factions enjoy.
A battle cloak is totally unnecessary, though. There's plenty of ways for a Defiant to flit off and cloak during battle, it doesn't need to match the Romulans.
An integrated Battle Cloak comes at a cost for both factions that employ them, relative to what Federation ships typically fly with.
Klingon BoPs have less hull, less shields, one less bridge officer power (though all Universal), and one less aft weapon than their Federation escort counterparts. Oh, and 5 Tac consoles on the Fleet version... not so much. If you wanted squishy hull and reduced payload, wouldn't you be playing on the KDF side?
Romulan Warbirds trade their Warp Cores in for Singularity Cores. This provides occasional access to fancy powers, but costs a constant -40 total Power and provides inferior modifier bonuses compared to Warp Cores. This means that an equivalent Warbird in the "Attack" preset will always have less shields, maneuverability, and healing/"space magic" ability, relative to your Defiant. If you wanted diminished power levels and some "space magic" gimmicks wouldn't you be playing on the Romulan side?
Each faction really should retain some flavor, at the very least. While having the cloak take a console slot is irksome, it allows the Defiant ships to retain better base stats as well as opt out of the cloak in favor of something else if the player so desires. If you really want the alternative, why not try playing one of the other factions? It's not like the devs force you to play Federation only...
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Romulan Warbirds trade their Warp Cores in for Singularity Cores. This provides occasional access to fancy powers, but costs a constant -40 total Power and provides inferior modifier bonuses compared to Warp Cores. This means that an equivalent Warbird in the "Attack" preset will always have less shields, maneuverability, and healing/"space magic" ability, relative to your Defiant. If you wanted diminished power levels and some "space magic" gimmicks wouldn't you be playing on the Romulan side?
Just saying, the _40 power does not matter much with plasmonic leech, batteries, etc. The Warbirds get the battlecloak and abilities basically for free.
Just saying, the _40 power does not matter much with plasmonic leech, batteries, etc. The Warbirds get the battlecloak and abilities basically for free.
Sort of... if you require a Plasmonic Leech to balance the power levels, which takes a console slot, doesn't that mean you can't use that console slot for something else? Sort of like using a console slot for a cloak... and you don't have the option of slotting both the Plasmonic Leech and Cloak Console to be able to have the benefits of both. I have no problem with a Defiant getting a Singularity Core and an integrated Battle Cloak... I just don't think most folks would actually want that.
If they did, they would be playing Romulans allied with the Federation
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Sort of... if you require a Plasmonic Leech to balance the power levels, which takes a console slot, doesn't that mean you can't use that console slot for something else? Sort of like using a console slot for a cloak... and you don't have the option of slotting both the Plasmonic Leech and Cloak Console to be able to have the benefits of both. I have no problem with a Defiant getting a Singularity Core and an integrated Battle Cloak... I just don't think most folks would actually want that.
If they did, they would be playing Romulans allied with the Federation
Well for over a year I have run KDF and now Romulan almost exclusively - once an awhile I dust off my Fed toons. I have a Fed Tac with a Fleet defiant - I just think it`s time that they make the cloak integrated with all that has happened in the game.
And I changed my stance to what seems to be the popular one: to have it an integrated regular cloak - rather than a battle cloak.
Personally with the way Romulan ships are set-up, all KDF BoP`s need a HUGE buff.
Well for over a year I have run KDF and now Romulan almost exclusively - once an awhile I dust off my Fed toons. I have a Fed Tac with a Fleet defiant - I just think it`s time that they make the cloak integrated with all that has happened in the game.
And I changed my stance to what seems to be the popular one: to have it an integrated regular cloak - rather than a battle cloak.
Personally with the way Romulan ships are set-up, all KDF BoP`s need a HUGE buff.
The Somraw Raptor Retrofit is a good option if you prefer the integrated Cloak. While it does give up a little speed and some shield modifier, it gains a tad in hull and allows you to go full cannons without wasting that Ensign boff seat. You don't get the 5 Tac consoles in the Fleet version either, but you can't have everything, lol.
Really, I just wanted to point out that there are options as far as ships; you just have to play this as a game and not obsess over getting everything on one faction. Try the others out, see if you like how they play a bit more than the other, and more than anything... have fun with it :P
I do admit, though, that Klingon BoP's really do need to be a bit more balanced out relative to Federation or Romulan vessels. I wonder if there might not be a reason "BoP" rhymes with "pop"...
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
A Battle Cloak Console would be fine and would fit the lore. The Defiant class was not originally designed to cloak after all, so the ability should cost something to acquire.
I do want to thank Cryptic from the lowest parts of my heart, for not giving us feedback on this.
I expect a response form DSTahl in one of those stupid interviews "We have no plans for a battle cloak for the crappy defiant. Also, there is more reputation coming!!! YAY! MOre grinding, because we listen to our fans."
The Somraw Raptor Retrofit is a good option if you prefer the integrated Cloak. While it does give up a little speed and some shield modifier, it gains a tad in hull and allows you to go full cannons without wasting that Ensign boff seat. You don't get the 5 Tac consoles in the Fleet version either, but you can't have everything, lol.
Really, I just wanted to point out that there are options as far as ships; you just have to play this as a game and not obsess over getting everything on one faction. Try the others out, see if you like how they play a bit more than the other, and more than anything... have fun with it :P
I do admit, though, that Klingon BoP's really do need to be a bit more balanced out relative to Federation or Romulan vessels. I wonder if there might not be a reason "BoP" rhymes with "pop"...
This has usually been my answer to such threads in the past. Usually something along the lines of 'if you want a battlecloak, roll a KDF and fly a BoP' or 'if you want ships with built in cloaks, roll KDF and fly a ship with said cloak'. Now, though. . .the argument's changed. We have Romulans now, and it can be argued they don't sacrifice enough to balance the combination of battlecloaks-on-all-ships along with their singularity powers and so on. Now it's harder to argue against at least integrating the Defiant's cloaking capabilities and maybe just taking a little hull or shield mod off it to 'compensate'. I would emphatically argue against giving integrated cloaks to all Federation escorts or all Federation ships, for both canonical and balance-related reasons. . .but for the Defiant and maybe the Dreadnaught? Hard to argue against now.
If there is a true problem with balance now that the Romulans are in the game...have you folks thought about the revolutionary concept of...adjusting balance in a way that does not result in everyone and his dog getting a battlecloak on his ship?
only if the ship gets a hull, shield, shield modifier and tactical console slot decrease, then maybe.
While using a semblance of what canon (might) dictate is one thing, ""ballance""" of the game must be maintained.
Romulan battle cloaks come at the cost of nefed general power levels, kdf battle cloaks are limited to BoPs, the most fragile ships in the game. (the vet ship admittingly being out of my expertise on stats, so i cant really comment)
I'd suggest just copying the BoP's stats, that way we will be sure they are balanced. :rolleyes:
While I don't think the Defiant or Galaxy-X need a battle cloak, I wouldn't mind if they had an integrated standard cloak. /shrug. I don't see it happening, though.
They did have a integrated standard cloak when the ship was first released, then they decided to make it a console type cloak, for what reason i donno, but yea i agree, the defiant should get a BC, hey it had it on the show so it is canon for it to have it (hmm lots of its in this sentence lol....it it it it it it it it)
If you are begging for a battle cloak on a Defiant, then you must not know how to play with the ship. She is built for quick offensive strike runs and can be used effectively in hit and run scenarios.
Go in, do damage, then pull out of combat until you can cloak, rinse and repeat.
I was actually recently thinking about this. I thought of a nice way to let everyone have what they want, without stepping on toes as much, and then maybe we can have this debate dead and finished for good:
Federation cloaks (Gal-X and Defiant-R): Would be called a 'Federation Cloaking Device'. They would gain the ability to cloak under fire, and NOTHING ELSE.
Klingon cloaks: Would be called 'Klingon Cloak'. All raptors and battlecruisers would gain all the benefits from battle cloak, but could still only ever cloak when not in red alert. BoPs would stay the same. Possibly give a bump to th effectiveness of all Klingon cloaks. Not gigantic, but enough to make it worthwhile.
Romulan cloaks: Would remain the same.
T'varo, B'rel, Scimitar (with consoles) cloaks: Stay mostly the same. Possibly for the B'rel, gain a greater amount of stealth bonus to make it a bit more unique or add in some other extra.
Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer and Battlecruiser: Would gain the ability to cloak under fire, but nothing else.
There, everyone gets what they want without stepping on toes as badly as just giving feds a battle cloak with all the dressings.
I thought the whole purpose of cloaks (in this game) was for the ambush alpha, rather than escaping. Doesn't that make "can only cloak while under fire" kind of completely useless? Especially on Escorts.
I thought the whole purpose of cloaks (in this game) was for the ambush alpha, rather than escaping. Doesn't that make "can only cloak while under fire" kind of completely useless? Especially on Escorts.
Well, the battlecloak is for both purposes. Normal cloaks are for just ambush alphas, unless you've got some big getaway buttons that give you enough time to leave Red Alert and cloak.
The battlecloak is useful for escaping, especially with the Romulans (who have them on ships who's hulls won't collapse at the first sign of a torpedo salvo).
So a 'cloak only while in Red Alert' would still be useful, but I don't think people would be satisfied. As much as they like to complain about it, Federation players like to decloak-alphastrike as well
Well, the battlecloak is for both purposes. Normal cloaks are for just ambush alphas, unless you've got some big getaway buttons that give you enough time to leave Red Alert and cloak.
The battlecloak is useful for escaping, especially with the Romulans (who have them on ships who's hulls won't collapse at the first sign of a torpedo salvo).
So a 'cloak only while in Red Alert' would still be useful, but I don't think people would be satisfied. As much as they like to complain about it, Federation players like to decloak-alphastrike as well
Fair point, I don't PvP so I have little experience with it. The only time I cloak is on my Rom-KDF to ambush waves in No Win Scenario.
It flew right over your head - you were wishing for another "Feds need a Battle cloak" thread or a T5 connie thread instead of all the threads regarding a certain fleet in the forums lately.
P.S. How do you crop a youtube video to start at a certain point?
Honestly I dont see the need for a BattleCloak on the Defiant. And I run a Sao Paulo Class.
Does the cloak not correspond with canon?
Well not entirely but the truth is canon being sited is very limited when you take a strong look at Star Trek Online. Most of the PvP players in my Fleet no longer run Tactical Escorts for PvP. Theyve learned that its limited in uses during PvP. Sure it can AlphaStrike someone but typically Pre-Mades are ready for this and it doesnt even put a dent in their shields. Tactical Escorts are also the favorite for other fleets to focus fire on getting easy kills because it doesnt take much at all to put them down.
What really needs to be done..And I dont see it being done for a long time if at all is the devs going back and reworking the balance.
They wont do this though because three years ago it was known that PvP was broken and needed a fix. And with every ship they add to the game they get just that much farther away from ever committing to a re-balance of the mechanics revolving around PvP.
The only reason I dont agree with a Battlecloack is because its not going to add any survivability to these ships because its an easy target the moment the enemy team spots it. The only place it would find use by players is in PvE and itll be for the hell of it because nothing in PvE is a real threat to your ship.
It flew right over your head - you were wishing for another "Feds need a Battle cloak" thread or a T5 connie thread instead of all the threads regarding a certain fleet in the forums lately.
P.S. How do you crop a youtube video to start at a certain point?
Press the 'Share' tab. There is a toggle that indicates you want to start the video at a particular point. After clicking that, put in the exact time you want it to start at in the field to the right.
Or, if you want to do it manually, just add ?t=0.05 or however many seconds/minutes you want to be into the video.
I have a suggestion to go along with the theme of the Romulan Republic and the various treaties.
Romulan Bridge officer with cloak as one of his/her ship abilities.
If you use two tiers you could ensign for a regular cloak, Then at Lieutenant battle cloak.
And if you really want to mess with people on RP in the abilities. They won't use the cloak against a Romulan Republic vessel.:P
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Comments
It works almost as well as the battlecloak, IMO.
Or you could just hit Impulse Capacitance Cell or EPtE + Evasive Maneuvers and rocket out of the battlezone (especially if you also have deuterium surplus devices). Even if someone follows you, it buys enough time to get some abilities off cooldown.
Regarding battlecloaking under fire: Traditionally in STO, that would be considered suicide. It's certainly not advisable for a KDF BoP unless you've got it stocked up with armor consoles and hit a nice hull resist buff before cloaking (BFI or Aux-to-SIF 2/3, or Polarize Hull). However, the Romulans have thrown that mechanic completely out the window, thanks to the devs apparently not caring about that vulnerability being necessary to balance out the battlecloak. I've seen Mogais, D'Deridexes, and Scimitars cloak while being shot at with cannons and torps and survive. This is because they have higher hull, primarily. Allows them to take a few extra hits, which is mostly all that's needed to matter. You just have to survive long enough to fully cloak, the hull damage can be repaired innately after you leave Red Alert. As if that weren't bad enough, some damned fool decided that one of the Scimitar variants ought to have secondary shields that somehow work while cloak is active, thereby essentially eliminating any vulnerabilities the battlecloak presents.
Only three Fed ships have the ability to Cloak anyway (currently, just one Fleet ship), putting a console penalty on top of this seems rather unnecessary given the Cloaking freedom the other factions enjoy.
A battle cloak is totally unnecessary, though. There's plenty of ways for a Defiant to flit off and cloak during battle, it doesn't need to match the Romulans.
Klingon BoPs have less hull, less shields, one less bridge officer power (though all Universal), and one less aft weapon than their Federation escort counterparts. Oh, and 5 Tac consoles on the Fleet version... not so much. If you wanted squishy hull and reduced payload, wouldn't you be playing on the KDF side?
Romulan Warbirds trade their Warp Cores in for Singularity Cores. This provides occasional access to fancy powers, but costs a constant -40 total Power and provides inferior modifier bonuses compared to Warp Cores. This means that an equivalent Warbird in the "Attack" preset will always have less shields, maneuverability, and healing/"space magic" ability, relative to your Defiant. If you wanted diminished power levels and some "space magic" gimmicks wouldn't you be playing on the Romulan side?
Each faction really should retain some flavor, at the very least. While having the cloak take a console slot is irksome, it allows the Defiant ships to retain better base stats as well as opt out of the cloak in favor of something else if the player so desires. If you really want the alternative, why not try playing one of the other factions? It's not like the devs force you to play Federation only...
Just saying, the _40 power does not matter much with plasmonic leech, batteries, etc. The Warbirds get the battlecloak and abilities basically for free.
Sort of... if you require a Plasmonic Leech to balance the power levels, which takes a console slot, doesn't that mean you can't use that console slot for something else? Sort of like using a console slot for a cloak... and you don't have the option of slotting both the Plasmonic Leech and Cloak Console to be able to have the benefits of both. I have no problem with a Defiant getting a Singularity Core and an integrated Battle Cloak... I just don't think most folks would actually want that.
If they did, they would be playing Romulans allied with the Federation
Well for over a year I have run KDF and now Romulan almost exclusively - once an awhile I dust off my Fed toons. I have a Fed Tac with a Fleet defiant - I just think it`s time that they make the cloak integrated with all that has happened in the game.
And I changed my stance to what seems to be the popular one: to have it an integrated regular cloak - rather than a battle cloak.
Personally with the way Romulan ships are set-up, all KDF BoP`s need a HUGE buff.
The Somraw Raptor Retrofit is a good option if you prefer the integrated Cloak. While it does give up a little speed and some shield modifier, it gains a tad in hull and allows you to go full cannons without wasting that Ensign boff seat. You don't get the 5 Tac consoles in the Fleet version either, but you can't have everything, lol.
Really, I just wanted to point out that there are options as far as ships; you just have to play this as a game and not obsess over getting everything on one faction. Try the others out, see if you like how they play a bit more than the other, and more than anything... have fun with it :P
I do admit, though, that Klingon BoP's really do need to be a bit more balanced out relative to Federation or Romulan vessels. I wonder if there might not be a reason "BoP" rhymes with "pop"...
I expect a response form DSTahl in one of those stupid interviews "We have no plans for a battle cloak for the crappy defiant. Also, there is more reputation coming!!! YAY! MOre grinding, because we listen to our fans."
This has usually been my answer to such threads in the past. Usually something along the lines of 'if you want a battlecloak, roll a KDF and fly a BoP' or 'if you want ships with built in cloaks, roll KDF and fly a ship with said cloak'. Now, though. . .the argument's changed. We have Romulans now, and it can be argued they don't sacrifice enough to balance the combination of battlecloaks-on-all-ships along with their singularity powers and so on. Now it's harder to argue against at least integrating the Defiant's cloaking capabilities and maybe just taking a little hull or shield mod off it to 'compensate'. I would emphatically argue against giving integrated cloaks to all Federation escorts or all Federation ships, for both canonical and balance-related reasons. . .but for the Defiant and maybe the Dreadnaught? Hard to argue against now.
Thanks devs. . .I guess.
Hey, maybe its tile the Empire gets some Enchaned Battle Claoks too <_> Not just silly Old Klingon ones.
AKA: If you are giving every FED ship cloaks, DO THE SAME FOR KDF!
I'd suggest just copying the BoP's stats, that way we will be sure they are balanced. :rolleyes:
They did have a integrated standard cloak when the ship was first released, then they decided to make it a console type cloak, for what reason i donno, but yea i agree, the defiant should get a BC, hey it had it on the show so it is canon for it to have it (hmm lots of its in this sentence lol....it it it it it it it it)
Go in, do damage, then pull out of combat until you can cloak, rinse and repeat.
This person knows how Balance works. ^
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I thought the whole purpose of cloaks (in this game) was for the ambush alpha, rather than escaping. Doesn't that make "can only cloak while under fire" kind of completely useless? Especially on Escorts.
Kirk's Protege.
Well, the battlecloak is for both purposes. Normal cloaks are for just ambush alphas, unless you've got some big getaway buttons that give you enough time to leave Red Alert and cloak.
The battlecloak is useful for escaping, especially with the Romulans (who have them on ships who's hulls won't collapse at the first sign of a torpedo salvo).
So a 'cloak only while in Red Alert' would still be useful, but I don't think people would be satisfied. As much as they like to complain about it, Federation players like to decloak-alphastrike as well
Fair point, I don't PvP so I have little experience with it. The only time I cloak is on my Rom-KDF to ambush waves in No Win Scenario.
Kirk's Protege.
http://youtu.be/i11hLPi_ky0?t=5s
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It flew right over your head - you were wishing for another "Feds need a Battle cloak" thread or a T5 connie thread instead of all the threads regarding a certain fleet in the forums lately.
P.S. How do you crop a youtube video to start at a certain point?
Does the cloak not correspond with canon?
Well not entirely but the truth is canon being sited is very limited when you take a strong look at Star Trek Online. Most of the PvP players in my Fleet no longer run Tactical Escorts for PvP. Theyve learned that its limited in uses during PvP. Sure it can AlphaStrike someone but typically Pre-Mades are ready for this and it doesnt even put a dent in their shields. Tactical Escorts are also the favorite for other fleets to focus fire on getting easy kills because it doesnt take much at all to put them down.
What really needs to be done..And I dont see it being done for a long time if at all is the devs going back and reworking the balance.
They wont do this though because three years ago it was known that PvP was broken and needed a fix. And with every ship they add to the game they get just that much farther away from ever committing to a re-balance of the mechanics revolving around PvP.
The only reason I dont agree with a Battlecloack is because its not going to add any survivability to these ships because its an easy target the moment the enemy team spots it. The only place it would find use by players is in PvE and itll be for the hell of it because nothing in PvE is a real threat to your ship.
Press the 'Share' tab. There is a toggle that indicates you want to start the video at a particular point. After clicking that, put in the exact time you want it to start at in the field to the right.
Or, if you want to do it manually, just add ?t=0.05 or however many seconds/minutes you want to be into the video.
Romulan Bridge officer with cloak as one of his/her ship abilities.
If you use two tiers you could ensign for a regular cloak, Then at Lieutenant battle cloak.
And if you really want to mess with people on RP in the abilities. They won't use the cloak against a Romulan Republic vessel.:P
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.