I'm not saying your build isn't perfectly viable but it doesn't do more damage than my charal. It just depends on the cruiser and the escort in question.
Of course, those are high end cruiser, but even a lv40 sovereign does only 500-1000dps less than a tactical Odyssey, if flown correctly. And that with a free ship.
The reason I quit hG fleet (bootcamp) is exactly the attitude of players like the OP (go pro or go home)
The Oh so hot PvP captains seemed to me "mandatory" junkies, but they never ever agreed for a 1 vs 1 challenge. It takes more to PvP than having the best build and gear.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
The Oh so hot PvP captains seemed to me "mandatory" junkies, but they never ever agreed for a 1 vs 1 challenge. It takes more to PvP than having the best build and gear.
Which is why they probably didn't agree to a 1v1.
BTW - I dunno how many people you've tried that with, but I've 1v1'd plenty of people in Ker'rat - the cracked planet being the designated 1v1 area (which should ALWAYS be respected). I've won many, and lost almost as much. More often than not, I have my challenges accepted + I play just about every day with several different characters, so I dunno what you're talking about with this "they never agree" junk.
Here we go again, another thread about how beams work great only and I emphasize only when you use the plasma rom kit setup which everyone knows is the only one that does that because of it's plasma exotic damage boost. HoTs always increase DPS. So try that with a phaser set. Go ahead. We'll wait. I bet you you'll never see the DPS with phasers you see with the rom plasma gear because there is no exotic damage with phasers.
Which is basically the problem with all beam only ships most noteably science ships (the many that have no cannon options).
Sad that they have the bonus to exotic damage space trait but there's only 1 set of beams that does exotic damage at all! Even the shield procs and the weapon drain procs don't get any benefit from this trait.
So really, show us another build on a cruiser using one of the non-plasma non-nanite enhanced beams and we'll talk. Until then just know that you are wrong and we are right when it comes to the serious DPS loss from using beam only ships.
Plasma is only beam to work well? Did they ever fix the bug with Anti Proton weapons? or are they still the bottom of the barrel damage type?
Everyone keeps going on about how beams are underpowered and all the devs care about are escorts and cannons.
Well of course beams aren't UP when you're using the best beams available on an AtB-built Tac Cruiser flown by a Tac Captain.
For everything else, there's sadness.
(I use Rom Plasma Beams on my Tac Oddyssey. What a relief.)
Forget the possibility of PvP, for so much has become pay-to-win, never to be balanced. Forget the promise of exploration and research, for in the grim dark future of Star Trek Online there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting publishers.
The reason I quit hG fleet (bootcamp) is exactly the attitude of players like the OP (go pro or go home)
That's not my attitude at all, you're allowed to be as terrible as you like - you're just not allowed to whine on the forums about how underpowered a particular type of weapon is when you don't have a clue about how to make an effective build.
So really, show us another build on a cruiser using one of the non-plasma non-nanite enhanced beams and we'll talk. Until then just know that you are wrong and we are right when it comes to the serious DPS loss from using beam only ships.
Fine. I'll do this. How high a DPS will I need to parse for you to be satisfied?
BTW - I dunno how many people you've tried that with, but I've 1v1'd plenty of people in Ker'rat - the cracked planet being the designated 1v1 area (which should ALWAYS be respected). I've won many, and lost almost as much. More often than not, I have my challenges accepted + I play just about every day with several different characters, so I dunno what you're talking about with this "they never agree" junk.
I meant the specific people mentioned, not generally. Yes there are even these days 1 vs 1 challenges. Usually from people who still have the hope that PvP is fun for casual players too.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
Try the same build with an Eng and see what happens. A Tac can make anything pump out high DPS, especially with FAW.
Gonna answer these as one:
I just did an ISE with my Engineer in this build. Using Spiral Wave Disruptors instead of plasma, no embassy consoles and blue technicians. Otherwise very similar gear.
I hit 11.5k. ON MY ENGINEER.
::drops mike::
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
I just did an ISE with my Engineer in this build. Using Spiral Wave Disruptors instead of plasma, no embassy consoles and blue technicians. Otherwise very similar gear.
I hit 11.5k. ON MY ENGINEER.
::drops mike::
Alright, so after seeing your parse and some of what you and your friend have been discussing, I figured I had a pretty good idea about what you are doing.
I went and grabbed by Engineer in her fleet heavy cruiser (Cheyenne). I don't run Aux2Bat, but the same basic principle for the purpose of this test can be applied by running 2 copies of BFAW, which is what I did.
FAW spam everything, all the time, no stopping. Position yourself to always be hitting at least 6-7 targets at all time. Firing at all the generators, transformer, gate, cubes, spheres, all of it, regardless of if the damage you are its net 0 because they are healing themselves.
The result? Inflated DPS numbers in the neighborhood of 17-19k.
Which, I guess is fine, if you like padded numbers.
Going off your parse, your damage numbers themselves look very very low. I have 3 times the damage you do, but you had 3 times the DPS (before this last test of mine).
I prefer damage over DPS, as DPS means squat.
Bottom line here, I was able to repeat and verify your claim, but its more of a way to manipulate the parser than showing anything of real accomplishment.
Sorry guys, not trying to be rude or anything, but this really doesn't show anything other than you know how to use BFAW a lot, and in the right position.
Of course, those are high end cruiser, but even a lv40 sovereign does only 500-1000dps less than a tactical Odyssey, if flown correctly. And that with a free ship.
What was that horrifically ugly fed ship summoned during the carrier fight? O_O'
Sorry guys, not trying to be rude or anything, but this really doesn't show anything other than you know how to use BFAW a lot, and in the right position.
A big part of playing a cruiser is knowing how to abuse FaW to it's full potential. This is especially important vs Borg as they like to use seekers.
A big part of playing a cruiser is knowing how to abuse FaW to it's full potential. This is especially important vs Borg as they like to use seekers.
I understand that. What I am saying (and it was me, you quoted the wrong name) is that their test does nothing to back up their claim. Instead of saying, "cruisers/beams dont suck", the point they are arguing is "BFAW spam can give you artificially inflated DPS numbers"
I understand that. What I am saying (and it was me, you quoted the wrong name) is that their test does nothing to back up their claim. Instead of saying, "cruisers/beams dont suck", the point they are arguing is "BFAW spam can give you artificially inflated DPS numbers"
Is BFAW misleading? Yes.
To what degree is BFAW misleading? Well, you can do cure elite in under 4 minutes with 5 beamers. I think that says a lot.
How do folks join this "DPS 5000" channel? Is it invite only? My little Excelsior averages about 5.5k....
You ask somebody who has the channel, then you assign for a test play, if you deal 9k+, you get invited, if you reach 5.5k, you will need more than just 1 game to get invite.
---
I know cruisers deal more dps than escorts, highest escort dps I know is 26k when highest cruiser dps I know is 27.8k, and all you need to do in cruiser is spam spacebar.
I did 21.4k dps before with my spacebar cruiser.
When you say that bfaw does 4k dps to 1 foe, remember if you have 5 cruisers, then it's that 20-27k dps to everything around, therefore the dps is legit. Any dps that heals back is not legit, all stfs have such "healing" but how legit can you be about dps?
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Alright, so after seeing your parse and some of what you and your friend have been discussing, I figured I had a pretty good idea about what you are doing.
I went and grabbed by Engineer in her fleet heavy cruiser (Cheyenne). I don't run Aux2Bat, but the same basic principle for the purpose of this test can be applied by running 2 copies of BFAW, which is what I did.
You are not getting it. The benefits of the Aux2Batt builds are not only the extra power, but also the virtual doubling of the tac slots. So no, using 2 copies of FAW is not the same. Were they two copies of FAW3? or even 2 copies of FAW2? What about APs, did oyu even have any APs and TT running?
You ask somebody who has the channel, then you assign for a test play, if you deal 9k+, you get invited, if you reach 5.5k, you will need more than just 1 game to get invite.
...well theres a problem, how do folks know who is in the channel to get an invite? ahhh well...
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
You are not getting it. The benefits of the Aux2Batt builds are not only the extra power, but also the virtual doubling of the tac slots. So no, using 2 copies of FAW is not the same. Were they two copies of FAW3? or even 2 copies of FAW2? What about APs, did oyu even have any APs and TT running?
Yes I am getting it. Doubling tac powers, yes. I was running a test and since I do not run an A2B build, I dont have the doffs nor do I feel like wasting my money an inferior ship build.
For the purpose of my own test, rather than spending EC on doffs, I just put 2 copies of FAW on and ran the test, getting close to the same numbers as the OP. APs would help a bit, but only slightly, considering most ppl rave about APB, which is meh to begin with.
And of course I have tac team. One copy with doffs, so I'm fine there, though TT isn't going to inflate the dps numbers anyway.
For the purpose of my own test, rather than spending EC on doffs, I just put 2 copies of FAW on and ran the test, getting close to the same numbers as the OP. APs would help a bit, but only slightly, considering most ppl rave about APB, which is meh to begin with.
i call BS, atleast give some parsed numbers...otherwise i just need to take your word for it, which is not really worth anything...nothing personal though. Just saying, screenshot or it never happened!
personally i had an oddy build with 2x FAW etc...and i parsed ISE allways below 7k...mostly even lower than 6k
i call BS, atleast give some parsed numbers...otherwise i just need to take your word for it, which is not really worth anything...nothing personal though. Just saying, screenshot or it never happened!
personally i had an oddy build with 2x FAW etc...and i parsed ISE allways below 7k...mostly even lower than 6k
You can call BS is you want and that's fine. I was not here to prove anything, but rather to verify their claim. I have, its underwhelming since you just park your ships somewhere it can fire at more than 5 things at a time, prefferably things like the gate and transformers that are big sponges, and FAW with spacebar. Make sure at least one person knows what they are doing to clean up the spawn mess you make, and make sure it only takes 4 minutes. Bam, 18k DPS. Easy peasy. I don't really care if ya don't believe me, no offense. I wasn't out to prove myself.
So take a tier v top of the line, best in stats gear, rep grind consoles, tac officer and purple boffs and doffs and you get nice DPS. Shocking I tell you.
Let me ask you ... How much effort to get a competive cruiser versus escort? They are not even close.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
To the original poster. I've solo'd infected elite 3 times now (before LoR launched) with a beam boat. Beams for sure do more damage now with the changes to how weapons drain power levels. I have zero doubt in my mind that you can pull that kind of damage. I dont run an aux to bat build but still have pulled 17k in my Tal'shiar adapted battle cruiser.
Anyone that says only escorts can do damage simply doesnt know what a cruiser can do.
My current goal is to break 20k dps in infected elite and I'm damned close on my tac. Keep up the good work and keep blowing peoples preconceptions out of the water
Now I did make some adjustments to your build as my skills are not the same and I don't have a sci in my Uni slot. But pulling 19k+ was awesome (I was averaging 13k before).
So again, thanks!
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Thanks , but I have more fun helping out the noobs and crunching numbers & parsers were never my thing .
I have ran a few times with more "pro" players from the STFRaiders channel (with Branflakes & Azurian among others) but I found the experience too "mechanical" for my liking .
No one got in trouble , no one needed help , and in a way it was about what I perceived as "the excellence of execution" rather then fun .
(for all I know that is fun for some , I'm trying not to be judgy . )
So while the Elite_STF channel is bleeding players and the PublicEliteSTF channel is picking up players , I still find it a bit sad that more and more of the better players choose to wall themselfs off from the "general population" with more and more obscure STF channels .
All this is a far cry from when we all hanged out in Gamma Orianis and shouted in zone chat for more players to get a match going ... , and I can't help but to wonder if the PVP community would have behaved with the divisiveness that the STF community is currently behaving -- would we still have a PVP community ?
Yeah .... ummm , no thanks . :P
apparently you arent part of the "opvp" channel lol
I have wandered about doing something like this with a Bortasqu (however you spell it). In theory thanks to the universal slots you could run something very similar in terms of abilities and maybe even achieve higher end dps a little easier.
But this is just theory until I can practically run it, quite a bit of grinding to do before then :P Still, kudos to the OP, where's an endorse button when you need one?
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
Plasma is only beam to work well? Did they ever fix the bug with Anti Proton weapons? or are they still the bottom of the barrel damage type?
I have yet to see the DPS on any other beam weapon that plasma puts out which is part of the problem, until they cause the other beams to put out some kind of exotic damage like Rom plasma set they will forever be below canons for everything.
They need to overhaul the weapons and I and others like me have given them ample suggestions in the suggestions forums to do it properly based off of the scores for various abilities like Flow Capacitors and Particle Gen to enhance beam weapons so people have better control over the weapons damage output.
Until that happens beams will forever remain second class unless you use the cookie cutter Rom plasma set.
Cruisers and beam arrays are fine. It's just that it's harder (or perhaps simply more expensive) to properly outfit a cruiser versus a traditional escort, so most people mistake that barrier-to-entry for a failing. Or they get discouraged by the relative lack of easy burst damage.
A good cruiser takes a little patience to build properly, perhaps even a tad more thought. With patience in one hand, and instant gratification in the other, well... there you go.
Honestly though, the only cruiser-related issue that I think Cryptic should look into is the bloody awful Galaxy variants. Aside from that, any further balancing should probably go towards making science ships less horrible.
Comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u04DIMo704
Of course, those are high end cruiser, but even a lv40 sovereign does only 500-1000dps less than a tactical Odyssey, if flown correctly. And that with a free ship.
The Oh so hot PvP captains seemed to me "mandatory" junkies, but they never ever agreed for a 1 vs 1 challenge. It takes more to PvP than having the best build and gear.
BTW - I dunno how many people you've tried that with, but I've 1v1'd plenty of people in Ker'rat - the cracked planet being the designated 1v1 area (which should ALWAYS be respected). I've won many, and lost almost as much. More often than not, I have my challenges accepted + I play just about every day with several different characters, so I dunno what you're talking about with this "they never agree" junk.
Plasma is only beam to work well? Did they ever fix the bug with Anti Proton weapons? or are they still the bottom of the barrel damage type?
Well of course beams aren't UP when you're using the best beams available on an AtB-built Tac Cruiser flown by a Tac Captain.
For everything else, there's sadness.
(I use Rom Plasma Beams on my Tac Oddyssey. What a relief.)
That's not my attitude at all, you're allowed to be as terrible as you like - you're just not allowed to whine on the forums about how underpowered a particular type of weapon is when you don't have a clue about how to make an effective build.
Fine. I'll do this. How high a DPS will I need to parse for you to be satisfied?
Kirk's Protege.
I meant the specific people mentioned, not generally. Yes there are even these days 1 vs 1 challenges. Usually from people who still have the hope that PvP is fun for casual players too.
Gonna answer these as one:
I just did an ISE with my Engineer in this build. Using Spiral Wave Disruptors instead of plasma, no embassy consoles and blue technicians. Otherwise very similar gear.
I hit 11.5k. ON MY ENGINEER.
::drops mike::
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Alright, so after seeing your parse and some of what you and your friend have been discussing, I figured I had a pretty good idea about what you are doing.
I went and grabbed by Engineer in her fleet heavy cruiser (Cheyenne). I don't run Aux2Bat, but the same basic principle for the purpose of this test can be applied by running 2 copies of BFAW, which is what I did.
FAW spam everything, all the time, no stopping. Position yourself to always be hitting at least 6-7 targets at all time. Firing at all the generators, transformer, gate, cubes, spheres, all of it, regardless of if the damage you are its net 0 because they are healing themselves.
The result? Inflated DPS numbers in the neighborhood of 17-19k.
Which, I guess is fine, if you like padded numbers.
Going off your parse, your damage numbers themselves look very very low. I have 3 times the damage you do, but you had 3 times the DPS (before this last test of mine).
I prefer damage over DPS, as DPS means squat.
Bottom line here, I was able to repeat and verify your claim, but its more of a way to manipulate the parser than showing anything of real accomplishment.
Sorry guys, not trying to be rude or anything, but this really doesn't show anything other than you know how to use BFAW a lot, and in the right position.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
I understand that. What I am saying (and it was me, you quoted the wrong name) is that their test does nothing to back up their claim. Instead of saying, "cruisers/beams dont suck", the point they are arguing is "BFAW spam can give you artificially inflated DPS numbers"
Or is that how it works anyway?
I'm new to the DPS craze. :P
Is BFAW misleading? Yes.
To what degree is BFAW misleading? Well, you can do cure elite in under 4 minutes with 5 beamers. I think that says a lot.
You ask somebody who has the channel, then you assign for a test play, if you deal 9k+, you get invited, if you reach 5.5k, you will need more than just 1 game to get invite.
---
I know cruisers deal more dps than escorts, highest escort dps I know is 26k when highest cruiser dps I know is 27.8k, and all you need to do in cruiser is spam spacebar.
I did 21.4k dps before with my spacebar cruiser.
When you say that bfaw does 4k dps to 1 foe, remember if you have 5 cruisers, then it's that 20-27k dps to everything around, therefore the dps is legit. Any dps that heals back is not legit, all stfs have such "healing" but how legit can you be about dps?
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
You are not getting it. The benefits of the Aux2Batt builds are not only the extra power, but also the virtual doubling of the tac slots. So no, using 2 copies of FAW is not the same. Were they two copies of FAW3? or even 2 copies of FAW2? What about APs, did oyu even have any APs and TT running?
...well theres a problem, how do folks know who is in the channel to get an invite?
Yes I am getting it. Doubling tac powers, yes. I was running a test and since I do not run an A2B build, I dont have the doffs nor do I feel like wasting my money an inferior ship build.
For the purpose of my own test, rather than spending EC on doffs, I just put 2 copies of FAW on and ran the test, getting close to the same numbers as the OP. APs would help a bit, but only slightly, considering most ppl rave about APB, which is meh to begin with.
And of course I have tac team. One copy with doffs, so I'm fine there, though TT isn't going to inflate the dps numbers anyway.
i call BS, atleast give some parsed numbers...otherwise i just need to take your word for it, which is not really worth anything...nothing personal though. Just saying, screenshot or it never happened!
personally i had an oddy build with 2x FAW etc...and i parsed ISE allways below 7k...mostly even lower than 6k
You can call BS is you want and that's fine. I was not here to prove anything, but rather to verify their claim. I have, its underwhelming since you just park your ships somewhere it can fire at more than 5 things at a time, prefferably things like the gate and transformers that are big sponges, and FAW with spacebar. Make sure at least one person knows what they are doing to clean up the spawn mess you make, and make sure it only takes 4 minutes. Bam, 18k DPS. Easy peasy. I don't really care if ya don't believe me, no offense. I wasn't out to prove myself.
Let me ask you ... How much effort to get a competive cruiser versus escort? They are not even close.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Anyone that says only escorts can do damage simply doesnt know what a cruiser can do.
My current goal is to break 20k dps in infected elite and I'm damned close on my tac. Keep up the good work and keep blowing peoples preconceptions out of the water
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
Vexashen (the above poster) and I just ran an ISE with our fleet and the results are below:
http://galleries.guildlaunch.net/205090/19k%20ISE7121.png
Now I did make some adjustments to your build as my skills are not the same and I don't have a sci in my Uni slot. But pulling 19k+ was awesome (I was averaging 13k before).
So again, thanks!
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
apparently you arent part of the "opvp" channel lol
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
But this is just theory until I can practically run it, quite a bit of grinding to do before then :P Still, kudos to the OP, where's an endorse button when you need one?
Now that would be an impressive video to watch. Do you have URL of the video which documents your triple feat?
I have yet to see the DPS on any other beam weapon that plasma puts out which is part of the problem, until they cause the other beams to put out some kind of exotic damage like Rom plasma set they will forever be below canons for everything.
They need to overhaul the weapons and I and others like me have given them ample suggestions in the suggestions forums to do it properly based off of the scores for various abilities like Flow Capacitors and Particle Gen to enhance beam weapons so people have better control over the weapons damage output.
Until that happens beams will forever remain second class unless you use the cookie cutter Rom plasma set.
A good cruiser takes a little patience to build properly, perhaps even a tad more thought. With patience in one hand, and instant gratification in the other, well... there you go.
Honestly though, the only cruiser-related issue that I think Cryptic should look into is the bloody awful Galaxy variants. Aside from that, any further balancing should probably go towards making science ships less horrible.