No, people are losing control of their character's IDLE ANIMATION. They are still fully capable of moving, interacting, changing instances, etc. That's not a loss of control, that's a very minor visual alteration not related to their character's appearance (identity).
There's a VERY big difference there, and until you understand that, you'll always think you're being deliberately griefed.
How much grief do you think Cryptic would take for taking out the character stances?
That too, would be a "very minor visual alteration not related to their character's appearance."
It's important to some people. You really don't get to say that it's not.
In reality, people with party amps are just telling you to lighten up a little, and have some harmless fun. :rolleyes:
You know, telling people to "lighten up" is never well received. And telling them that they should be having fun with things that are dictated to them by other people doesn't work well either.
Oh, and using "rolleyes" makes it clear that you don't take the issue seriously, regardless of all the highfalutin language.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Oh, and using "rolleyes" makes it clear that you don't take the issue seriously, regardless of all the highfalutin language.
... because it's not a serious issue. The fact that you don't realize this astounds me, and is the reason I'm still even in this thread - I'm amazed and amused.
You seem to have a recurring theme of "law enforcement" and "legal action" when complaining about party poppers and disco balls. While these particular items might annoy players, as seen by the comments of a FEW players in this thread, there is certainly nothing illegal about any of this. If someone blasts a fire extinguisher at you, and you don't approve, it's not a legal matter. Sorry, it just isn't.
Next, disco balls aside, there are ways to effectively "turn off" fire extinguishers, poppers, and balloons. They aren't secrets, and are relatively well-known by many players. If you are getting, god forbid, some extinguisher in your camera view, then you can 1. deal with it (it's not a big deal), 2. leave, or 3. Adjust your video settings so it doesn't appear.
I can't resist playing DA here. Party poppers and disco balls very likely annoy a lot more people than are bothered enough to post about it here.
I want to be clear that I am not talking about lighting off a disco ball in a zone just to have fun. I am talking about dropping stuff in people's faces in order to annoy them.
They annoy ME, even when I'm not the intended target, but I just grit my teeth and keep going. A lot of it has to do with HOW they are used... and if the primary intention is to annoy people, then yes, it is technically against the ToS rules about griefing other players.
I will agree that it's not a legal issue, and good luck getting someone official to take action.
Regarding "turning off" fire extinguishers, poppers, balloons, etc. adjusting video settings to make them disappear doesn't just make those things go away. There's no checkbox for "don't show balloons". You have to limit the quality and features available to your video card, and I guarantee that it affects more than just fire extinguishers. Few people will want to have to readjust their video settings everytime they enter a social zone.
I take exception to the idea that people have a right to use these fun-intended items to annoy other people, and that everybody else should just have to suck it up and adjust. It's a bad attitude, it's unfriendly, and it's rude.
I think RP'ers should make the effort to limit any imposition their role-play has on other players, and I think 'merrymakers' should make an effort to respect people who don't want to make merry with disco balls.
I know, common courtesy from both sides is too much to ask, right?
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I can't resist playing DA here. Party poppers and disco balls very likely annoy a lot more people than are bothered enough to post about it here.
I want to be clear that I am not talking about lighting off a disco ball in a zone just to have fun. I am talking about dropping stuff in people's faces in order to annoy them.
They annoy ME, even when I'm not the intended target, but I just grit my teeth and keep going. A lot of it has to do with HOW they are used... and if the primary intention is to annoy people, then yes, it is technically against the ToS rules about griefing other players.
I will agree that it's not a legal issue, and good luck getting someone official to take action.
Regarding "turning off" fire extinguishers, poppers, balloons, etc. adjusting video settings to make them disappear doesn't just make those things go away. There's no checkbox for "don't show balloons". You have to limit the quality and features available to your video card, and I guarantee that it affects more than just fire extinguishers. Few people will want to have to readjust their video settings everytime they enter a social zone.
I take exception to the idea that people have a right to use these fun-intended items to annoy other people, and that everybody else should just have to suck it up and adjust. It's a bad attitude, it's unfriendly, and it's rude.
I think RP'ers should make the effort to limit any imposition their role-play has on other players, and I think 'merrymakers' should make an effort to respect people who don't want to make merry with disco balls.
I know, common courtesy from both sides is too much to ask, right?
I don't have any probs with the party items. It's a game, let people have fun, whether it be throwing smoke grenades, using the discoball, fire extinguisher, or the anniversary items.
The only problem I have is when party items are intentionally abused to harass people. For example a bot that spawns the horga'hn over and over and over with the accompanying chime. That is enough to drive anyone nuts and clear abuse. Or chasing a player and putting the extinguisher in his face minutes or end. Personally I've never even seen the party fleet of Dental do such things, but some players of various fleets have.
Keep it friendly, people and don't get angry over party items when they are not abused. Tolerance to some fun doesn't harm anyone.
Tyr shall give me strength! For the glory of Tempus! I am the hands of Shar! Flames of Kossuth, protect me! Oghma, grant me knowledge! Lolth commands, and I obey!
against this idea. your interaction with exchange or other players or shooting is not effected at all.
The disco ball should be fired everywhere. Dance baby dance. Shake that booty
Grinding for MkIV epic gear?
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
If roleplayers and merrymakers occupy the same zone, then both sides need to suck it up.
Interesting to hear that coming from a fleet that has made a career out of not tolerating roleplayers.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I can't resist playing DA here. Party poppers and disco balls very likely annoy a lot more people than are bothered enough to post about it here.
I want to be clear that I am not talking about lighting off a disco ball in a zone just to have fun. I am talking about dropping stuff in people's faces in order to annoy them.
They annoy ME, even when I'm not the intended target, but I just grit my teeth and keep going. A lot of it has to do with HOW they are used... and if the primary intention is to annoy people, then yes, it is technically against the ToS rules about griefing other players.
I will agree that it's not a legal issue, and good luck getting someone official to take action.
Regarding "turning off" fire extinguishers, poppers, balloons, etc. adjusting video settings to make them disappear doesn't just make those things go away. There's no checkbox for "don't show balloons". You have to limit the quality and features available to your video card, and I guarantee that it affects more than just fire extinguishers. Few people will want to have to readjust their video settings everytime they enter a social zone.
I take exception to the idea that people have a right to use these fun-intended items to annoy other people, and that everybody else should just have to suck it up and adjust. It's a bad attitude, it's unfriendly, and it's rude.
I think RP'ers should make the effort to limit any imposition their role-play has on other players, and I think 'merrymakers' should make an effort to respect people who don't want to make merry with disco balls.
I know, common courtesy from both sides is too much to ask, right?
Way to sum up 50+ pages of junk into one coherent thought! Thanks, Bluegeek!
I've posted in HEAPS of other threads suggesting the same thing as the OP. When it comes to these items there are 3 groups of players.
1 - The people that enjoy using them - These people will be able to continue using them. They also have the added bonus of not attracting any aggro from other players for using them. As far as I'm concerned, this is a win for group 1.
2 - The people that would prefer to not see the party favour effects - By turning off the effects these players will no longer be annoyed by these items. They will be able to continue to play the game as they wish to. This is a win for group 2.
3 - Those that like annoying other people with party favours - If people are able to turn off the effects of these items on their own screen, this group will miss out on their "fun". (The quotation marks are there as I believe it takes a slightly disturbed mind to get enjoyment from deliberately annoying other people.) This is a big lose for this group.
Groups 1 and 2, IMHO, are people to whom STO should be catering for the most. Group 3 should NEVER come out on top of groups 1 and 2.
^ This. ^
I'm going to address a thing or two (or three or four, or ten or twelve...) that I've seen in this thread and other threads like unto it, as well as make a few observations pertaining to this and other threads concerning this item, some of which were merged into it, and some of which have apparently vanished through the wormhole into the PWE/Cryptic Quadrant.
First, in these threads, the very obvious (and/or well-known) fleet affiliations of some of the loudest voices opposing any sort of adjustment to what one of these threads aptly named the "dancing griefer ball" speaks volumes more than all their protests of "it's only a game" and "I'm just being social" and "this is a minor thing" and so on. I won't name any names. I don't have to, for anyone who knows how these fleets' members typically behave (which is to say, these are fleets which are largely if not wholly composed of people from "Group 3" in the post by darramouss1 quoted above). The fact that they have been so very active in this and other such threads, speaking in opposition to calls for any way to evade their efforts to annoy others with the dancing griefer ball has been conflated by some of them into an assertion that only "very few players" have posted in support of a way to avoid the annoyance of the item in question. Number of posts by one or ten players in opposition does not equal number of players in opposition. I doubt anyone is willing to go back over this thread and take a count; I'm certainly not. But it does look, without undertaking such an effort, as if there are significantly more who would like to be unaffected than there are those who want to affect them without allowing them any choice in the matter. Also, whether or not they are explicitly advocating "griefing" or "annoying" other players in so many words in the fora is irrelevant to their actions in-game. I've witnessed one of them actually chase another player around on Drozana Station just to expose that player to yet another dancing griefer ball in a new spot (and yes, I know the player was not pleased with this, since she and I were talking in whisper about the whole situation as it happened, so I'm not making an assumption).
Second, I recall seeing, in one or another of the threads pertaining to the dancing griefer ball, a claim (from one of those in one of the fleets to which I have alluded above) that he/she usually observes players running "toward" the AoE of these items when they are set off. That has not been my observation. Allow me to elucidate ...
Players who frequent (or even occasionally visit) Drozana Station's main room do, after all, tend to run towards three areas when they come out of the hallway leading from the transporter room to the main room:
a. Commander Tal'Mera and/or the Dabo Table
b. the bar (since, and I doubt I'm revealing any great secret here, the bartender will pay you more for your spacejunk than any of the other NPC "merchants" on the station)
c. the mail/bank area and/or the bank/exchange area
All of these are locations that are affected by the usual places the dancing griefer balls are launched.
I have unfortunately run "toward" the AoE of a dancing griefer ball a few times, when coming out of the hallway and moving to the bartender, since, yes, the bar is one of the places where the item is used frequently. It was in no way my intention to "run toward" that AoE; it simply happened to be on my way to where I actually WAS running (I now usually walk to the bar, going around the table to avoid the AoE of the blasted things, since they seem to be in use at the bar rather often, but this forces me to delay my movement by slowing it down and taking an alternate route, rather than a straight line between two points -- I will cotton to walking rather than jogging pretty frequently even when there's no dancing griefer ball in sight, but having to do it is different from choosing to do it, and sometimes I would rather get in and out of the station quickly). The same is true of the other two areas I have mentioned. Obviously, someone intent on claiming that "very few players" are bothered by these items being used on their characters by someone else may be willing to be disingenuous in using this phenomenon of players running to areas a., b., and c. as a claim that those players are running "toward" the AoE of the dancing griefer ball (or may sincerely believe that those players are doing so, although I think this possibility is rather dubious).
Third, if this is not a major concern, and "not a serious issue," why are there now over 50 pages in this thread?
Fourth, I do not consider "annoying other people" to be part of any sane understanding of the phrase "having fun." A little harmless picking on someone who knows you don't mean anything by it is one thing, but a constant barrage of harassment is quite another. The fleets alluded to in my first commentary above are known to seek out RPers and attempt to disrupt their experience. They are known to claim to dislike and/or disapprove of a certain dance in the game to such an extent that they attempt to conceal anyone performing that dance from view, interposing themselves between the dancer and her audience, insisting that it should only be done in private, using the dancing griefer ball to force the dancer into the emotes activated thereby and thus stop doing that particular dance, etc, etc, etc. Puritans don't like dancing of this sort and attempt to sexualize it (some of them feel this way about any dancing, but those willing to force others into performing alternate dances are probably not quite that far gone). However, Arabic dance (which some call "belly dance" or "belly") is an ancient artform. What occurs in someone's mind when they observe another person performing Arabic dance is the "fault" of the observer, not the dancer. It is wonderful exercise and beautiful, graceful motion. It is also art and tradition. I am learning to do it in the offline world, too, and I find this self-righteous demonizing of something I do more than a little obnoxious and offensive, nor do I care what your motivations in this judgmental claim are. I'm not forcing you to perform the dance, but you would like to force me not to. More to the point, the very first pilot for Star Trek included dancing inspired by Arabic dance, and such dance (and "skimpy" attire typically worn while performing such dance) was not limited to TOS. Witness a compilation: Star Trek Orion Women
Fifth, an "argument" is "a set of statements, some of which (premises) are given in support of another (the conclusion)." This is something done in Logic, not Rhetoric (which does instead something called "debate"). Logic (by which I mean the real-world academic discipline, a sub-branch of Epistemology, itself a branch of Philosophy) has the goal of getting at the truth; Rhetoric has the goal of "winning." Rhetoric often makes use of fallacies intentionally, since debate has more to do with an audience than argument, and appeal to emotion, appeal to prejudice, argumentum ad hominem (of more than one type), straw man, begging the question, and several other fallacies can sway an audience rather easily, particularly if the audience is made up of those ignorant of Logic. This thread (and others pertaining to the dancing griefer ball) is an unfortunate blend of Logic and Rhetoric; there is an audience, to be sure. There's also a "target audience" (namely, Cryptic Studios). I would like to hope that the target audience is more well-informed about the differences between Rhetoric and Logic than the average blond, but I have experience with developers from other companies which suggests that people who make use of Symbolic Logic in their coding work may not always have much grasp of Formal Logic. Still, I've been mostly impressed by what I've seen from Cryptic so far. The point to this is that a goal of "winning an argument" is rather self-referentially incoherent, since an argument is not about "winning," but about establishing truth, and you're not going to accomplish that goal by hurling invectives at other participants in this ... discussion (since it is neither pure debate nor pure argument), nor engaging in other fallacious behavior. You may impress the unlearned peasants, but don't assume that the Devs are part of that rabble.
Sixth, I have no issue with fire extinguishers, bug spray, smoke grenades, nor even balloons (I actually like the smoke grenades). Sure the gradual increase in number of balloons can eventually put a strain on someone's machine, I understand that, but they are, fortunately, not eternal, or else Drozana Station and several other locations would by now be filled with them. Furthermore, none of these items actually has any real effect on my character. I never see anything come out of a fire extinguisher nor a bug sprayer; I'm not sure I'm supposed to. If I did, I might find them annoying, but as it stands now, either my graphics will not support that, or the two items just don't actually do diddly. Even skills which cause my character to glow or the like are of negligible concern (personally, I like them). The dancing griefer ball, however, does have a direct effect on my character, by removing my control over the character, forcing me to stop doing something I'm doing and engage in motions which the person who used the item has effected by use thereof. It wouldn't really affect my RPing, since RPing is more usually cerebral/verbal than physical in STO (that is, it's largely conducted by means of the chat channels), but it does remove my choice in the matter of what I would like for my character to do and what I would not like for her to do, and places that choice in the hands of another player. That's not cool with me, nor, obviously, quite a few other players.
Seventh, ... okay, I forgot what I was going to say at this point, because I need sleep (but probably won't get any for a while yet), but seven is a nice number, so seventh, Something Something Something Into Darkness (might come back later and edit this with whatever it was I was going to say).
I stand by my personal opinion and never accused any particular individual of anything. If that's the way I came across, it was not intended.
I agree that people shouldn't automatically get bent out of shape just because somebody lights off a disco ball.
I do absolutely disagree that people should be expected to change their video settings to "get rid" of party poppers, fire extinguishers, etc. and I strongly disagree with any statement that implies people should just live with it without also clearly stating the difference between casual use and griefing like I did.
The original point of this thread, before it got monster-sized, was asking the Devs for an option to turn off annoying visual effects and animations. I happen to believe that it's not going to happen, but aside from the technical issues it's a reasonable request that would've allowed everybody to get what they want. People could party or RP or even just move through a zone without interfering with each other.
Since that's not going to happen, it would be a lot easier if we'd all just try to co-exist peacefully.
Since that's probably not going to happen either, I'm going to exhort people on all sides of the issue to stop stirring things up on the forums.
To that end, and in line with a complaint received about this, I'm going to agree that this sideshow of a thread needs to be put down. The only thing left is to continue to argue over this, and it's not happening. We're done here.
[Wide Angle Forum Phaser Mk XIV [+Mod][-Flames]]
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Comments
That too, would be a "very minor visual alteration not related to their character's appearance."
It's important to some people. You really don't get to say that it's not.
You know, telling people to "lighten up" is never well received. And telling them that they should be having fun with things that are dictated to them by other people doesn't work well either.
Oh, and using "rolleyes" makes it clear that you don't take the issue seriously, regardless of all the highfalutin language.
... because it's not a serious issue. The fact that you don't realize this astounds me, and is the reason I'm still even in this thread - I'm amazed and amused.
I can't resist playing DA here. Party poppers and disco balls very likely annoy a lot more people than are bothered enough to post about it here.
I want to be clear that I am not talking about lighting off a disco ball in a zone just to have fun. I am talking about dropping stuff in people's faces in order to annoy them.
They annoy ME, even when I'm not the intended target, but I just grit my teeth and keep going. A lot of it has to do with HOW they are used... and if the primary intention is to annoy people, then yes, it is technically against the ToS rules about griefing other players.
I will agree that it's not a legal issue, and good luck getting someone official to take action.
Regarding "turning off" fire extinguishers, poppers, balloons, etc. adjusting video settings to make them disappear doesn't just make those things go away. There's no checkbox for "don't show balloons". You have to limit the quality and features available to your video card, and I guarantee that it affects more than just fire extinguishers. Few people will want to have to readjust their video settings everytime they enter a social zone.
I take exception to the idea that people have a right to use these fun-intended items to annoy other people, and that everybody else should just have to suck it up and adjust. It's a bad attitude, it's unfriendly, and it's rude.
I think RP'ers should make the effort to limit any imposition their role-play has on other players, and I think 'merrymakers' should make an effort to respect people who don't want to make merry with disco balls.
I know, common courtesy from both sides is too much to ask, right?
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Brilliantly stated, bluegeek.
The only problem I have is when party items are intentionally abused to harass people. For example a bot that spawns the horga'hn over and over and over with the accompanying chime. That is enough to drive anyone nuts and clear abuse. Or chasing a player and putting the extinguisher in his face minutes or end. Personally I've never even seen the party fleet of Dental do such things, but some players of various fleets have.
Keep it friendly, people and don't get angry over party items when they are not abused. Tolerance to some fun doesn't harm anyone.
For the glory of Tempus!
I am the hands of Shar!
Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
Oghma, grant me knowledge!
Lolth commands, and I obey!
Quick, what's the temperature in Hades?
EDIT: this one is better quality
My character Tsin'xing
The disco ball should be fired everywhere. Dance baby dance. Shake that booty
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Interesting to hear that coming from a fleet that has made a career out of not tolerating roleplayers.
Way to sum up 50+ pages of junk into one coherent thought! Thanks, Bluegeek!
^ This. ^
I'm going to address a thing or two (or three or four, or ten or twelve...) that I've seen in this thread and other threads like unto it, as well as make a few observations pertaining to this and other threads concerning this item, some of which were merged into it, and some of which have apparently vanished through the wormhole into the PWE/Cryptic Quadrant.
First, in these threads, the very obvious (and/or well-known) fleet affiliations of some of the loudest voices opposing any sort of adjustment to what one of these threads aptly named the "dancing griefer ball" speaks volumes more than all their protests of "it's only a game" and "I'm just being social" and "this is a minor thing" and so on. I won't name any names. I don't have to, for anyone who knows how these fleets' members typically behave (which is to say, these are fleets which are largely if not wholly composed of people from "Group 3" in the post by darramouss1 quoted above). The fact that they have been so very active in this and other such threads, speaking in opposition to calls for any way to evade their efforts to annoy others with the dancing griefer ball has been conflated by some of them into an assertion that only "very few players" have posted in support of a way to avoid the annoyance of the item in question. Number of posts by one or ten players in opposition does not equal number of players in opposition. I doubt anyone is willing to go back over this thread and take a count; I'm certainly not. But it does look, without undertaking such an effort, as if there are significantly more who would like to be unaffected than there are those who want to affect them without allowing them any choice in the matter. Also, whether or not they are explicitly advocating "griefing" or "annoying" other players in so many words in the fora is irrelevant to their actions in-game. I've witnessed one of them actually chase another player around on Drozana Station just to expose that player to yet another dancing griefer ball in a new spot (and yes, I know the player was not pleased with this, since she and I were talking in whisper about the whole situation as it happened, so I'm not making an assumption).
Second, I recall seeing, in one or another of the threads pertaining to the dancing griefer ball, a claim (from one of those in one of the fleets to which I have alluded above) that he/she usually observes players running "toward" the AoE of these items when they are set off. That has not been my observation. Allow me to elucidate ...
Players who frequent (or even occasionally visit) Drozana Station's main room do, after all, tend to run towards three areas when they come out of the hallway leading from the transporter room to the main room:
a. Commander Tal'Mera and/or the Dabo Table
b. the bar (since, and I doubt I'm revealing any great secret here, the bartender will pay you more for your spacejunk than any of the other NPC "merchants" on the station)
c. the mail/bank area and/or the bank/exchange area
All of these are locations that are affected by the usual places the dancing griefer balls are launched.
I have unfortunately run "toward" the AoE of a dancing griefer ball a few times, when coming out of the hallway and moving to the bartender, since, yes, the bar is one of the places where the item is used frequently. It was in no way my intention to "run toward" that AoE; it simply happened to be on my way to where I actually WAS running (I now usually walk to the bar, going around the table to avoid the AoE of the blasted things, since they seem to be in use at the bar rather often, but this forces me to delay my movement by slowing it down and taking an alternate route, rather than a straight line between two points -- I will cotton to walking rather than jogging pretty frequently even when there's no dancing griefer ball in sight, but having to do it is different from choosing to do it, and sometimes I would rather get in and out of the station quickly). The same is true of the other two areas I have mentioned. Obviously, someone intent on claiming that "very few players" are bothered by these items being used on their characters by someone else may be willing to be disingenuous in using this phenomenon of players running to areas a., b., and c. as a claim that those players are running "toward" the AoE of the dancing griefer ball (or may sincerely believe that those players are doing so, although I think this possibility is rather dubious).
Third, if this is not a major concern, and "not a serious issue," why are there now over 50 pages in this thread?
Fourth, I do not consider "annoying other people" to be part of any sane understanding of the phrase "having fun." A little harmless picking on someone who knows you don't mean anything by it is one thing, but a constant barrage of harassment is quite another. The fleets alluded to in my first commentary above are known to seek out RPers and attempt to disrupt their experience. They are known to claim to dislike and/or disapprove of a certain dance in the game to such an extent that they attempt to conceal anyone performing that dance from view, interposing themselves between the dancer and her audience, insisting that it should only be done in private, using the dancing griefer ball to force the dancer into the emotes activated thereby and thus stop doing that particular dance, etc, etc, etc. Puritans don't like dancing of this sort and attempt to sexualize it (some of them feel this way about any dancing, but those willing to force others into performing alternate dances are probably not quite that far gone). However, Arabic dance (which some call "belly dance" or "belly") is an ancient artform. What occurs in someone's mind when they observe another person performing Arabic dance is the "fault" of the observer, not the dancer. It is wonderful exercise and beautiful, graceful motion. It is also art and tradition. I am learning to do it in the offline world, too, and I find this self-righteous demonizing of something I do more than a little obnoxious and offensive, nor do I care what your motivations in this judgmental claim are. I'm not forcing you to perform the dance, but you would like to force me not to. More to the point, the very first pilot for Star Trek included dancing inspired by Arabic dance, and such dance (and "skimpy" attire typically worn while performing such dance) was not limited to TOS. Witness a compilation:
Star Trek Orion Women
Fifth, an "argument" is "a set of statements, some of which (premises) are given in support of another (the conclusion)." This is something done in Logic, not Rhetoric (which does instead something called "debate"). Logic (by which I mean the real-world academic discipline, a sub-branch of Epistemology, itself a branch of Philosophy) has the goal of getting at the truth; Rhetoric has the goal of "winning." Rhetoric often makes use of fallacies intentionally, since debate has more to do with an audience than argument, and appeal to emotion, appeal to prejudice, argumentum ad hominem (of more than one type), straw man, begging the question, and several other fallacies can sway an audience rather easily, particularly if the audience is made up of those ignorant of Logic. This thread (and others pertaining to the dancing griefer ball) is an unfortunate blend of Logic and Rhetoric; there is an audience, to be sure. There's also a "target audience" (namely, Cryptic Studios). I would like to hope that the target audience is more well-informed about the differences between Rhetoric and Logic than the average blond, but I have experience with developers from other companies which suggests that people who make use of Symbolic Logic in their coding work may not always have much grasp of Formal Logic. Still, I've been mostly impressed by what I've seen from Cryptic so far. The point to this is that a goal of "winning an argument" is rather self-referentially incoherent, since an argument is not about "winning," but about establishing truth, and you're not going to accomplish that goal by hurling invectives at other participants in this ... discussion (since it is neither pure debate nor pure argument), nor engaging in other fallacious behavior. You may impress the unlearned peasants, but don't assume that the Devs are part of that rabble.
Sixth, I have no issue with fire extinguishers, bug spray, smoke grenades, nor even balloons (I actually like the smoke grenades). Sure the gradual increase in number of balloons can eventually put a strain on someone's machine, I understand that, but they are, fortunately, not eternal, or else Drozana Station and several other locations would by now be filled with them. Furthermore, none of these items actually has any real effect on my character. I never see anything come out of a fire extinguisher nor a bug sprayer; I'm not sure I'm supposed to. If I did, I might find them annoying, but as it stands now, either my graphics will not support that, or the two items just don't actually do diddly. Even skills which cause my character to glow or the like are of negligible concern (personally, I like them). The dancing griefer ball, however, does have a direct effect on my character, by removing my control over the character, forcing me to stop doing something I'm doing and engage in motions which the person who used the item has effected by use thereof. It wouldn't really affect my RPing, since RPing is more usually cerebral/verbal than physical in STO (that is, it's largely conducted by means of the chat channels), but it does remove my choice in the matter of what I would like for my character to do and what I would not like for her to do, and places that choice in the hands of another player. That's not cool with me, nor, obviously, quite a few other players.
Seventh, ... okay, I forgot what I was going to say at this point, because I need sleep (but probably won't get any for a while yet), but seven is a nice number, so seventh, Something Something Something Into Darkness (might come back later and edit this with whatever it was I was going to say).
I agree that people shouldn't automatically get bent out of shape just because somebody lights off a disco ball.
I do absolutely disagree that people should be expected to change their video settings to "get rid" of party poppers, fire extinguishers, etc. and I strongly disagree with any statement that implies people should just live with it without also clearly stating the difference between casual use and griefing like I did.
The original point of this thread, before it got monster-sized, was asking the Devs for an option to turn off annoying visual effects and animations. I happen to believe that it's not going to happen, but aside from the technical issues it's a reasonable request that would've allowed everybody to get what they want. People could party or RP or even just move through a zone without interfering with each other.
Since that's not going to happen, it would be a lot easier if we'd all just try to co-exist peacefully.
Since that's probably not going to happen either, I'm going to exhort people on all sides of the issue to stop stirring things up on the forums.
To that end, and in line with a complaint received about this, I'm going to agree that this sideshow of a thread needs to be put down. The only thing left is to continue to argue over this, and it's not happening. We're done here.
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