I continue to be baffled at why people want every ship in existence to be a T5 ship. Not every ship should. Its actually quite ridiculous to believe that a 150 year old ship "should" be as competitive as the latest, greatest ship. It's silly and will never happen.
Think of it this way. "I want a T5 Space Shuttle!" No! The Space Shuttle is too old, and is not competitive with the latest ships.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I continue to be baffled at why people want every ship in existence to be a T5 ship. Not every ship should. Its actually quite ridiculous to believe that a 150 year old ship "should" be as competitive as the latest, greatest ship. It's silly and will never happen.
Think of it this way. "I want a T5 Space Shuttle!" No! The Space Shuttle is too old, and is not competitive with the latest ships.
Why not just explain it with building new Miranda Class ships and using the latest technology to make it strong as other ships. Instead of designers spending so much time designing new models just use existing ones. I do not see why their can't be a tier 5 Miranda especially when their is tier 5 Excelsior.
STO could go a long way re-arranging tiers in the manner of world of tanks. so then we can finally see tier 1 ships in high tier battles. the only major sacrifices are the way bridge officers are setup.. I mean.. might have to scrap a few things entirely or change it to a point its not recognizable anymore. Just.. what it's gonna take =(
How much you think CBS will sell ST rights for?
Lyndon Brewer: 20% chance to capture enemy ship for 60 seconds on successful use of boarding party.
I continue to be baffled at why people want every ship in existence to be a T5 ship. Not every ship should. Its actually quite ridiculous to believe that a 150 year old ship "should" be as competitive as the latest, greatest ship. It's silly and will never happen.
Think of it this way. "I want a T5 Space Shuttle!" No! The Space Shuttle is too old, and is not competitive with the latest ships.
Cosnider this: Right now, you see only four ships in endgame. All. The. Time. By breaking the "tier" barriers and make every ship viable at endgame we'd see a lot more variety, plus no fleet consists solely of T5 escorts. The bulk of fleets on-screen were light and medium cruisers, Mirandas, Excelsiors - I vote for yes, T5 for every ship for the sake of more visual appealing diversity
Though I vote NO for the suggested DHC/tac layout. Don't make every single ship an escort, please be creative
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Creates blinding white light in the enemy ship, rendering the opposing crew helpless as they can not see their stations. Renders opposing ship inert for 15 seconds. -50% alive crew as they trip and fall over each other.
Just because I'm in my Miranda doesn't mean I have to be as competitive as a Jem'Hadar battleship, and see that's the problem with STO at the moment. STill wouldn't mind popping off a few shots at him. At tier 5 fleet you expected to have equal chances against each other in 1v1 situations. I WANT to be less powerful. I WANT my opponent to feel godly in his gigantic beast of a ship.
I WANT STAR TREK BACK!!!
Lyndon Brewer: 20% chance to capture enemy ship for 60 seconds on successful use of boarding party.
Creates blinding white light in the enemy ship, rendering the opposing crew helpless as they can not see their stations. Renders opposing ship inert for 15 seconds. -50% alive crew as they trip and fall over each other.
If it's accompanied by fitting sound effects I'll buy it
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Just because I'm in my Miranda doesn't mean I have to be as competitive as a Jem'Hadar battleship, and see that's the problem with STO at the moment. STill wouldn't mind popping off a few shots at him. At tier 5 fleet you expected to have equal chances against each other in 1v1 situations. I WANT to be less powerful. I WANT my opponent to feel godly in his gigantic beast of a ship.
I WANT STAR TREK BACK!!!
+1. This is the way STO should be.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Creates blinding white light in the enemy ship, rendering the opposing crew helpless as they can not see their stations. Renders opposing ship inert for 15 seconds. -50% alive crew as they trip and fall over each other.
I'd actually like to see it as a special ability console on a science ship some day.
Make it an AoE-skill fired at a specific ship, the closer to the blast center the ship is, the longer your screen stays white (and I mean literally white)...kinda like a flashbang.
Why not just explain it with building new Miranda Class ships and using the latest technology to make it strong as other ships. Instead of designers spending so much time designing new models just use existing ones. I do not see why their can't be a tier 5 Miranda especially when their is tier 5 Excelsior.
Because I want it, I'm paying and I want to be happy ! I don't want to pay for some I don't want and I'm sure not paying for you to be happy .
I see no reason why Starfleet would not upgrade their fleet of Miranda class starships.
For Example:
Starfleet has upgrade the USS Lakota to be on par with one of the best armed Starfleet ships of the time the USS Defiant.
It took Starfleet only a few months to do this modifications and the Excelsior class is not small so Starfleet could modify the small Miranda class more quickly.
In fact it comes down to the following question, what is more effective to build a brand new ship with a construction time of up to a year or to upgrade existing ships in just a few months.
I see no reason why Starfleet would not upgrade their fleet of Miranda class starships.
For Example:
Starfleet has upgrade the USS Lakota to be on par with one of the best armed Starfleet ships of the time the USS Defiant.
It took Starfleet only a few months to do this modifications and the Excelsior class is not small so Starfleet could modify the small Miranda class more quickly.
In fact it comes down to the following what is more effective to build a brand new ship with a construction time of up to a year or to upgrade existing ships in just a few months.
1.) was it ever stated anywhere how long it takes to upgrade a new ship?
2.) I can tell you that in RL an actual extensive upgrade (like those done to the ships between WW1 and 2) takes LONGER than building a new ship since you have to first pick it apart then put it back together again.
1.) was it ever stated anywhere how long it takes to upgrade a new ship?
2.) I can tell you that in RL an actual extensive upgrade (like those done to the ships between WW1 and 2) takes LONGER than building a new ship since you have to first pick it apart then put it back together again.
The only reference I've ever read about, in regards to refits, was that of the original Enterprise. In that case, it took eighteen months to completely refit the vessel. And that was a more radical refit than simple technology upgrades, done with the technology of the day (late 23rd Century). I would imagine it would be a more streamline affair in the early 25th Century.
1.) was it ever stated anywhere how long it takes to upgrade a new ship?
No this was never mentioned but it took place in the time Sisko and Odo were stationed on Earth during the events of Paradise Lost (that were only a few months)
2.) I can tell you that in RL an actual extensive upgrade (like those done to the ships between WW1 and 2) takes LONGER than building a new ship since you have to first pick it apart then put it back together again.
Starfleet ships are build differently than WW I or II ships they are more modular internally.
Battleships that sunk in Pearl Harbor were back in service some of them not even a year later.
West Virginia: hit by two bombs, seven torpedoes, sunk; returned to service July 1944.
California: hit by two bombs, two torpedoes, sunk; returned to service January 1944.
Nevada: hit by six bombs, one torpedo, beached; returned to service October 1942.
Tennessee: hit by two bombs; returned to service February 1942.
Maryland: hit by two bombs; returned to service February 1942
The only reference I've ever read about, in regards to refits, was that of the original Enterprise. In that case, it took eighteen months to completely refit the vessel. And that was a more radical refit than simple technology upgrades, done with the technology of the day (late 23rd Century). I would imagine it would be a more streamline affair in the early 25th Century.
This is correct but don't forget they did not only upgrade the interior they also upgrade the exterior, I think there was not one hull plate that was the same.
And a T5 NX-class, T5 Oberth-class, T5 Space Shuttle, T5 International Space Station...
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The Maranda class ships that fought against the Dominion blockade between the Federation Fleet, and DS9 had to be upgraded....The federation doesn't strike me as the type of people to believe in cannon fodder, and though a lot of ships fighting the Jem'Hadar in the Dominion War appeared to be just that, I don't think they would send a stock Maranda, from the time of James T. Kirk to fight against the Dominion fleet, it just doesn't make sense
I want a T5 fleet Miranda and a T5 fleet constitution/Exeter class
Light Speed! - No, light speed is too slow. We need LUDICROUS SPEED!
Ajma420 - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Federation Catherine The Great - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Empire Vladimir - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Rihannsu Empire
The Maranda class ships that fought against the Dominion blockade between the Federation Fleet, and DS9 had to be upgraded....The federation doesn't strike me as the type of people to believe in cannon fodder, and though a lot of ships fighting the Jem'Hadar in the Dominion War appeared to be just that, I don't think they would send a stock Maranda, from the time of James T. Kirk to fight against the Dominion fleet, it just doesn't make sense
You make a very good point!
Thanks for the expansion that had "as much content as the last"
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
The Maranda class ships that fought against the Dominion blockade between the Federation Fleet, and DS9 had to be upgraded....The federation doesn't strike me as the type of people to believe in cannon fodder, and though a lot of ships fighting the Jem'Hadar in the Dominion War appeared to be just that, I don't think they would send a stock Maranda, from the time of James T. Kirk to fight against the Dominion fleet, it just doesn't make sense
This is a great post.
We know that Starfleet upgrades ships even old ones like the Excelsior class U.S.S. Lakota was upgraded and able to fight well against the U.S.S. Defiant.
We know that Starfleet doesn't even do all the upgrades to a ship sometimes a ships chief engineer does some upgrades like how Geordi La Forge upgraded the Enterprise before.
Their is no good reason why a Miranda class a proven ship class that has been in service for so long should not have have a tier 5 version especially when their is a Excelsior one. The only possible reason is someone high up does not want one in the game for some stupid reason.
A T5 Miranda? Really? How would you even spec that thing to make sense. Would it have 4 weapons front and back? Would it be a copy and paste job of the Star Cruiser? The day a Miranda class can go toe to toe with the cutting edge Odyssey, Vesta, or even the Galaxy or Sovereign...we will start to have problems in this game.
The fact is, The Miranda (and its variants) are intended to be low-level ships. They don't look like battle ships. They are the recycled remnants of an older era intended to provide ships for the new-comers into Starfleet. It is like your first car when you at 17. On that note, the fact that we have a T5 excelsior class or Ambassador class kinda drives me nuts. Excelsior, Miranda, and Ambassador, especially the Miranda, belong at levels 1 to 29...end of story. These ships are out of date. Make way for new designs.
It is like asking for a fully revamped, HD version of the tube television. It is like asking for a thin version of the brick phone that Zach Morris used on saved by the bell.
It just sounds dumb.
If you want to fly a Miranda, then you fly the low level one. Don't flood the T5/C-Store/Fleet with over powered ships of the days of James T. Kirk and Khan Noonien Singh.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you oppose the Reputation nerf, feel free to use my signature
A T5 Miranda? Really? How would you even spec that thing to make sense. Would it have 4 weapons front and back? Would it be a copy and paste job of the Star Cruiser? The day a Miranda class can go toe to toe with the cutting edge Odyssey, Vesta, or even the Galaxy or Sovereign...we will start to have problems in this game.
The fact is, The Miranda (and its variants) are intended to be low-level ships. They don't look like battle ships. They are the recycled remnants of an older era intended to provide ships for the new-comers into Starfleet. It is like your first car when you at 17. On that note, the fact that we have a T5 excelsior class or Ambassador class kinda drives me nuts. Excelsior, Miranda, and Ambassador, especially the Miranda, belong at levels 1 to 29...end of story. These ships are out of date. Make way for new designs.
It is like asking for a fully revamped, HD version of the tube television. It is like asking for a thin version of the brick phone that Zach Morris used on saved by the bell.
It just sounds dumb.
If you want to fly a Miranda, then you fly the low level one. Don't flood the T5/C-Store/Fleet with over powered ships of the days of James T. Kirk and Khan Noonien Singh.
That's your opinion. But one that you are certainly entitled to.
However, you are under the mistaken impression that Tier 5 means an uber-frigate of DOOOOOOOMMMMMM.
Hell, if you want to get downright technical about it, the Miranda in game is actually undergunned when compared to the century old version seen in Star Trek II.
And the Miranda's in-game "sister" ships, the Centaur and ShiKahr are fairly recent designs. So, there is no reason for the lack of a Tier 5 "light cruiser".
Comments
Think of it this way. "I want a T5 Space Shuttle!" No! The Space Shuttle is too old, and is not competitive with the latest ships.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Why not just explain it with building new Miranda Class ships and using the latest technology to make it strong as other ships. Instead of designers spending so much time designing new models just use existing ones. I do not see why their can't be a tier 5 Miranda especially when their is tier 5 Excelsior.
How much you think CBS will sell ST rights for?
cause sometimes its party time!
It would be as good an excuse as any to add a Soyuz skin to the line-up.
Cosnider this: Right now, you see only four ships in endgame. All. The. Time. By breaking the "tier" barriers and make every ship viable at endgame we'd see a lot more variety, plus no fleet consists solely of T5 escorts. The bulk of fleets on-screen were light and medium cruisers, Mirandas, Excelsiors - I vote for yes, T5 for every ship for the sake of more visual appealing diversity
Though I vote NO for the suggested DHC/tac layout. Don't make every single ship an escort, please be creative
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Ok, you asked for it...
Special Console: Lens Flare Cannon
Creates blinding white light in the enemy ship, rendering the opposing crew helpless as they can not see their stations. Renders opposing ship inert for 15 seconds. -50% alive crew as they trip and fall over each other.
I WANT STAR TREK BACK!!!
cause sometimes its party time!
If it's accompanied by fitting sound effects I'll buy it
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+1. This is the way STO should be.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Joke-answer: call it the JJ-cannon.:P
Non-joke anser:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Photonic_pulse
I'd actually like to see it as a special ability console on a science ship some day.
Make it an AoE-skill fired at a specific ship, the closer to the blast center the ship is, the longer your screen stays white (and I mean literally white)...kinda like a flashbang.
Put in a good word for that 10 torpedo spread too
cause sometimes its party time!
Because I want it, I'm paying and I want to be happy ! I don't want to pay for some I don't want and I'm sure not paying for you to be happy .
For Example:
Starfleet has upgrade the USS Lakota to be on par with one of the best armed Starfleet ships of the time the USS Defiant.
It took Starfleet only a few months to do this modifications and the Excelsior class is not small so Starfleet could modify the small Miranda class more quickly.
In fact it comes down to the following question, what is more effective to build a brand new ship with a construction time of up to a year or to upgrade existing ships in just a few months.
1.) was it ever stated anywhere how long it takes to upgrade a new ship?
2.) I can tell you that in RL an actual extensive upgrade (like those done to the ships between WW1 and 2) takes LONGER than building a new ship since you have to first pick it apart then put it back together again.
The only reference I've ever read about, in regards to refits, was that of the original Enterprise. In that case, it took eighteen months to completely refit the vessel. And that was a more radical refit than simple technology upgrades, done with the technology of the day (late 23rd Century). I would imagine it would be a more streamline affair in the early 25th Century.
Agree, but only if we also get a T5 Phoenix.
No this was never mentioned but it took place in the time Sisko and Odo were stationed on Earth during the events of Paradise Lost (that were only a few months)
Starfleet ships are build differently than WW I or II ships they are more modular internally.
Battleships that sunk in Pearl Harbor were back in service some of them not even a year later.
West Virginia: hit by two bombs, seven torpedoes, sunk; returned to service July 1944.
California: hit by two bombs, two torpedoes, sunk; returned to service January 1944.
Nevada: hit by six bombs, one torpedo, beached; returned to service October 1942.
Tennessee: hit by two bombs; returned to service February 1942.
Maryland: hit by two bombs; returned to service February 1942
This is correct but don't forget they did not only upgrade the interior they also upgrade the exterior, I think there was not one hull plate that was the same.
http://www.leestringer.com/Images/Print/EnterpriseRefit_11x17_150dpi.jpg
And a T5 NX-class, T5 Oberth-class, T5 Space Shuttle, T5 International Space Station...
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.
Ajma420 - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Federation
Catherine The Great - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Empire
Vladimir - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Rihannsu Empire
You make a very good point!
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
Sorry to say that but I hate his work it is ugly but that is only my personal opinion, and we don't want this we want the original.
This is a great post.
We know that Starfleet upgrades ships even old ones like the Excelsior class U.S.S. Lakota was upgraded and able to fight well against the U.S.S. Defiant.
We know that Starfleet doesn't even do all the upgrades to a ship sometimes a ships chief engineer does some upgrades like how Geordi La Forge upgraded the Enterprise before.
Their is no good reason why a Miranda class a proven ship class that has been in service for so long should not have have a tier 5 version especially when their is a Excelsior one. The only possible reason is someone high up does not want one in the game for some stupid reason.
If it's the NX Replica, then why not? It's a fully modern 25th Century vessel, just built with a retro look in mind.
Nice design.
The fact is, The Miranda (and its variants) are intended to be low-level ships. They don't look like battle ships. They are the recycled remnants of an older era intended to provide ships for the new-comers into Starfleet. It is like your first car when you at 17. On that note, the fact that we have a T5 excelsior class or Ambassador class kinda drives me nuts. Excelsior, Miranda, and Ambassador, especially the Miranda, belong at levels 1 to 29...end of story. These ships are out of date. Make way for new designs.
It is like asking for a fully revamped, HD version of the tube television. It is like asking for a thin version of the brick phone that Zach Morris used on saved by the bell.
It just sounds dumb.
If you want to fly a Miranda, then you fly the low level one. Don't flood the T5/C-Store/Fleet with over powered ships of the days of James T. Kirk and Khan Noonien Singh.
That's your opinion. But one that you are certainly entitled to.
However, you are under the mistaken impression that Tier 5 means an uber-frigate of DOOOOOOOMMMMMM.
Hell, if you want to get downright technical about it, the Miranda in game is actually undergunned when compared to the century old version seen in Star Trek II.
And the Miranda's in-game "sister" ships, the Centaur and ShiKahr are fairly recent designs. So, there is no reason for the lack of a Tier 5 "light cruiser".