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[Roleplay Communtiy] Hate-Based RP and You (too far off topic, closed)

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  • terence12terence12 Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If Picard had been any good as a captain he would have Killed Q on the spot
    and proceeded with his mission



    agree

    q reminded me of the great kazoo on the flintsones

    course tng was like acadamia in space

    janeway did beat q cause she waqs the closet to kirk the series got
  • vampirialvampirial Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I rarely Rp Even though I'd like to but I just don't find a large enough contingent of people willing to rp too, this whole hate based rp further pushes me away Further.
  • syberghostsyberghost Member Posts: 1,711 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Moved some offtopic threadjack posts to the usual place.

    Enjoy.
    Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
  • adon333adon333 Member Posts: 304
    edited June 2013
    themarie wrote: »
    Recently I've noticed a very disturbing trend. One that showcases a complete lack of respect for your fellow players and also shows that you do NOT have a firm grasp on the mythos and lore of Star Trek.

    I walk into a bar, and someone comes up to me to initiate a roleplay session. Introductions are exchanged then the person immediately launches into a long detailed rant about how he hates me, my entire race, everyone who looks even similar to me and justifies it because someone in my race killed a family member. Therefore, he cannot STAND my presence, cannot stand me, and has now made it his mission in life to punish me an all of "my kind" because of... something.

    The race doesn't matter. The details do not matter. Really, do you think someone wants to log in and be "screamed at" by another person? To sit there through a longwinded hate speech? To be told that they are (even in character) an abomination and should be executed simply because they are different?

    I've seen it happen in casual RP, I've seen it happen in fleet RP. I'll be blunt: Racisim is wrong, even pretend racism. Hiding behind the banner of RP and using it to justify hate-play is disgusting.



    Now I'm not saying that there should be no interpersonal conflict, or dislike or anything of that sort. Star Trek is about resolving conflicts, becoming better and moving on to the next challenge. Rarely did we see outright hate expressed, and when it was it was worked through.

    I'm not seeing that in game. I've seen enough RP encounters around the maps to know that grand high vengeance, racial-holy-war and personal vendettas against entire races is stock-standard. I would accept that from a KDF character... but when a Federation officer is talking about rounding up and executing people simply because someone long ago killed his/her father... that's just unacceptable.

    There are plenty of other MMORPGs where this is acceptable storytelling practice... if you must engage in hate-play please take it elsewhere!


    Remember the motto of Starfleet is "To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before." It is not "Blood For The Blood God In The Name Of Vengeance!" It is not "To Boldy Hate Everyone Just Because Shouting Racial Slurs is Fun."

    Lets step back and take a long hard look at the way we RP in this game, and learn to RP within the bounds of the mythos and lore. If you are unfamiliar with those don't hesitate to mail me questions in game or /tell me. I'll bring you up to speed. (My @ name is similar to my handle here... I'm a Captain instead of The.)

    Wow, weird....weird....weird.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    Yeah, that's right.
  • eulifdaviseulifdavis Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    elessym wrote: »
    There's really no "intelligent thought" needed to comprehend you at all.

    ... so because I don't like RP, I must be stupid? Way to trip over your own argument. :rolleyes:

    Here, I'll spell it out for you: I find RP ("role-playing") to be stupid, backwards, and otherwise pointless. Role-playing is an action, not a personality or person. The same can be said for picking your nose, or taking a grinder to your toenails. Just like those other two examples, I choose not to participate in such because I find it inherently undesirable.

    The PEOPLE who RP, however, are another matter. It takes imagination to RP, and in a few cases, actual intelligence. Go back and read everything I already posted. I never once insulted the people involved, only the activity. You would do well to do the same.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The amount of complaining that people do about the way that other people wish to play the game is truly astounding. Especially when we have an ignore function.

    I also am really beginning to hate the term "hate speech". Suck it up, sticks and stones.

    Maybe they should make it so when you ignore someone, it actually makes them completely invisible to you in social zones.
  • bluegrassgeekbluegrassgeek Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The issue here is less about racism in role-play, and more about common courtesy. If you want to RP a racist, misogynist, religious zealot or crusader against (insert issue here) that's perfectly valid.

    However, a basic rule of roleplay is that you're playing with others. Dropping a hot-button issue right on top a complete stranger is a **** move. A simple private message "Hey, do you mind if I RP (issue x) with you?" solves the problem. It's this basic lack of common courtesy that throws roleplaying off-course.

    There's also a reason why live-action roleplayers have the general rule "don't freak the mundanes." Acting out an issue like that in public can be misinterpreted by those outside the role-play group. Not everyone realizes you're "playing pretend," and may take what you say/do at face value. In real life, that can result in the cops showing up. Here, there's fewer repercussions, plus the general anonymity of the Internet. That means people forget (or don't care) that not everyone knows what your actual intention is.

    tl;dr Ask somebody before you involve them in role-playing a really ugly topic.
    ____
    Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.
  • bluegrassgeekbluegrassgeek Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    eulifdavis wrote: »
    ... so because I don't like RP, I must be stupid? Way to trip over your own argument. :rolleyes:

    Here, I'll spell it out for you: I find RP ("role-playing") to be stupid, backwards, and otherwise pointless. Role-playing is an action, not a personality or person. The same can be said for picking your nose, or taking a grinder to your toenails. Just like those other two examples, I choose not to participate in such because I find it inherently undesirable.

    The PEOPLE who RP, however, are another matter. It takes imagination to RP, and in a few cases, actual intelligence. Go back and read everything I already posted. I never once insulted the people involved, only the activity. You would do well to do the same.

    Walk into a sports bar and proclaim that baseball is a "stupid, backwards and otherwise pointless" sport. Or, more relevantly, post in a PvP thread that PvP is a "stupid, backwards and otherwise pointless" activity. You'll find yourself just as welcome there as you're making yourself here.

    Sure, you can have that opinion. Just be aware that you're intentionally insulting people. And yes, by insulting the subject you inherently insult those who enjoy participating in the subject. You imply that they are "stupid, backwards and otherwise pointless" for participating in it. If you don't like it, that's one thing; insulting an entire group is another.
    ____
    Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    azniadeet wrote: »
    I also am really beginning to hate the term "hate speech". Suck it up, sticks and stones.

    Your opinion. People are entitled to their point of view in so far as it doesn't cause immediate harm to another person.

    If you start harrassing/intimidating people because of gender/sexuality/race and that's when the sticks and stones break peoples bones.
    azniadeet wrote: »
    Maybe they should make it so when you ignore someone, it actually makes them completely invisible to you in social zones.

    Sensible idea. But I don't think it would work in practice.
  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    tc10b wrote: »
    Your opinion. People are entitled to their point of view in so far as it doesn't cause immediate harm to another person.

    Exactly my point. No point of view can cause immediate harm to anyone- especially when there is an ignore function in this game.
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    azniadeet wrote: »
    Exactly my point. No point of view can cause immediate harm to anyone- especially when there is an ignore function in this game.

    some don't like to use it they scared they going to miss some one talking about them or miss out on drama
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    swimwear off risa not fixed
    system Lord Baal is dead
    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • eulifdaviseulifdavis Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Walk into a sports bar and proclaim that baseball is a "stupid, backwards and otherwise pointless" sport. Or, more relevantly, post in a PvP thread that PvP is a "stupid, backwards and otherwise pointless" activity. You'll find yourself just as welcome there as you're making yourself here.

    Sure, you can have that opinion. Just be aware that you're intentionally insulting people. And yes, by insulting the subject you inherently insult those who enjoy participating in the subject. You imply that they are "stupid, backwards and otherwise pointless" for participating in it. If you don't like it, that's one thing; insulting an entire group is another.

    Anyone who's personal identity revolves around one single activity, and who therefore feels they are being personally insulted when that activity is called into question, needs to seek professional psychiatric help immediately. :eek:

    And yes, I would be perfectly willing to walk into a sports bar and tell people that football is "stupid, backwards, and otherwise pointless". It's just a testosterone-fueled mosh pit, and the general populace who like and watch it regularly tend to be moderate-to-heavy drinkers, since alcohol apparently makes football easier to watch. :rolleyes:

    (I rather like baseball, so I didn't insult that particular sport. I do not, however, take offense if someone openly proclaims that they do not like it. People are entitled to their opinions, even when they do not match mine.)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Depends on what your definition of harm is. If for example I stalked you everywhere you went in the game even though you ignored me, that could be considered harm.

    There have been court cases in the US and abroad for people engaged in cyber bullying, in particular I can think of the homosexual college student case, where the offender went to jail and there are some parallels.

    The ignore function doesn't go far enough in this game.
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    tc10b wrote: »
    Depends on what your definition of harm is. If for example I stalked you everywhere you went in the game even though you ignored me, that could be considered harm.

    wow a pixel going to hurt me now........
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    swimwear off risa not fixed
    system Lord Baal is dead
    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Mock all you want. It's against the ToS and most laws in the civilised world to threaten violence on someone, whether that threat can be realised or not.

    I would demonstrate it here, but no doubt I would get a warning from a moderator for it.
  • syberghostsyberghost Member Posts: 1,711 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    *eyes tc10b warily*


    ;)
    Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
  • linyivelinyive Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    themarie wrote: »
    Point #2, this is a huge problem. The number of people who think this is ... an extension of Star Wars is just absurd. Make an effort to fit in to the established settings please!
    eulifdavis wrote: »
    2.) The players who don't accept a game's established story line, setting, etc., and instead want to invent their own.
    Watch "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine". Out of all the "Star Trek" series, "Deep Space Nine" opened the door for smugglers, outcasts, the disenchanted, rebels, and anything else you would find in "Star Wars". "Star Trek: Online" is not official movie or television canon. While the stories may draw upon established canon, Cryptic used an artistic license to twist them into new directions.

    Does the Federation enter into a war with Klingons? According to the end of "Deep Space Nine", the future of the Klingon Empire was left in the hands of Chancellor Martok and Federation Ambassador Worf. Martok and Worf would not have allowed the Klingon Empire to become enemies with the Federation.

    Does an Andorian become the captain of the Enterprise? Absolutely not. Since the Enterprise represents the ingenuity, motivation, and passions of humanity, the ship will forever shall be commanded by a human crew. Even though there will be alien executive officers, the captain and first officer will always be human.

    Other words, Cryptic used an artistic license to make Star Trek Online, so why should people be mad at role-players for being creatively expressive. Its not a question.

    When it comes to people role-playing on Drozana, the anger they are feeling is due to being discriminated against. Some people are using role-playing in a hateful manner; however, they do not represent the entire community. Some fleets use to heavily discriminate against the Drozana role-players, so a wall of distrusts and anger has been built over time. Instead of following the mantra 'live and let live', some fleets and players went out of their way to make things difficult for role-players.

    Please, do not paint all role-players with the same brush.
    eulifdavis wrote: »
    I find RP to be stupid, backwards, and otherwise pointless...
    We live in a free world. Why are you trying to make it difficult for others who think differently? I do not see any role-players opening up threads that say, "I hate everyone who does not like role-playing." Do you see any? Even though you may not like role-playing, I am going to approach you with the up most respect.
  • mcconnamcconna Member Posts: 255 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I don't even know where to start on the OP's post. This thread is beyond a joke. I suppose all I can say without ruining my day by even trying to make sense of this (Without my brain exploding from the silliness of it), is use the ignore feature. lol
  • bluegrassgeekbluegrassgeek Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    azniadeet wrote: »
    Exactly my point. No point of view can cause immediate harm to anyone- especially when there is an ignore function in this game.

    Says someone who hasn't been the target of such speech. :rolleyes:
    ____
    Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    syberghost wrote: »
    *eyes tc10b warily*


    ;)

    I think you know where I was going with that post. :)
  • cptjhuntercptjhunter Member Posts: 2,288 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    In other forum news, the server stability has been returned.Now back to our regularly schedualled crying.
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    cptjhunter wrote: »
    In other forum news, the server stability has been returned.
    It left? I've not seen any problem.
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    eulifdavis wrote: »
    Only read the first 4 paragraphs. Got a massive case of "TL;DR" after that.

    I find RP to be stupid, backwards, and otherwise pointless. I've always found I can separate players who RP into one of three categories, all of which I find distasteful:

    1.) The players who want to have intimate encounters, but apparently aren't capable of doing so in real life.

    2.) The players who don't accept a game's established story line, setting, etc., and instead want to invent their own.

    3.) The players who really want to grief or otherwise ruin someone's day, but need a way to "legitimize" it so they don't get punished by the game moderators.



    Of those 3 categories, the person you described (up until I stopped reading) definitely fit in category 3. These are the same people that aren't happy with the Romulans now being peaceful, and more or less the same people that also want to force PvP on the community at large (open-world, non-consensual PvP). I've found it's often best to just report them for griefing, trolling, or any other infraction that fits their behavior, ignore them, and then move on.

    (Category #2 is actually worse, but that's beyond the scope of your thread.)

    There's a 4th. The type you are. Each day. I'm not sure how you feel about that. Wait I lied. I am sure. I'm sure you don't even realize what you are. If you did I'd bet you'd have a sadface.
  • pompoulusspompouluss Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    You're certainly entitled to cut off the conversation or request to steer it in another path but trying to broaden your own personal tastes into some stand for right against wrong is absurd.

    You don't like make-believe racism in your roleplay.

    That's perfectly fine, but that's the beginning and end of it.
  • rustiswordzrustiswordz Member Posts: 824 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Hi guys, here is a very simple tips that people may overlook if you are trying to avoid a bully, griefer, idiot that tries to follow you.

    Change instances. Several times preferably. The current instance you are on is shown above the minimap. Top right, default. To change instance, go to the main map, area map and bottom of the page there should be an instance button. Press it and up pops an instance list. Select and change.

    The bully cant follow you if he doesn't know what instance you jumped to. I know that isn't always practical. However if you dont have anyone to meet or do its a good way to avoid idiots.

    If you are in a fleet, ask fleet mates to help. I'm sure someone will come to your aid. Bullies don't like it when their victims have back up. I had a guy giving a friend some trouble so I went to where my friend was in orbit around drozana, he kept flying around my friend in his piddly defiant, hurling abuse. So i rolled in with my VuQuov carrier. Told the guy to get lost and spammed him with Bops and skill effects until he got fed up having the same done to him. He left.

    So saftey in numbers, ask for help, change instance if possible using the main map function.
    Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey flings Feathered Monkey poo... :D
  • viti595viti595 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Hateful or speciest or racist content within Star Trek isn't acceptable by Federation law - however, that being said, there are many instances of it being displayed by Federation officers. Kirk has been mentioned, though he was guilty of many infractions of Starfleet regulations on different occasions and it could be argued that it was in his 'rogueish' nature... but what about Picard? Picard and his complete and absolutely consuming hatred of the Borg in Star Trek: First Contact?

    Admirals in TNG... pretty much 80% of the entire theme of Deep Space Nine... it's all about these kinds of topics so, as has been said in this thread, there is a place for it in Star Trek as part of character development or villainous behavior.

    That being said, there are ways to take it too far. There are instances in real life (to many to count and inappropriate to list) of individuals who are hateful or racist and it's not part of any personal development arc, and just because it's a useful storytelling trope doesn't make the application of it outside of that use justifiable. Hateful behavior will always be wrong.

    Should one get upset when another player approaches in-character to engage in hateful comments toward your character's race or gender? Arguably I would say No. It's a game. IC/OOC separation... you are not your character. Somebody wants to hate your character for being a Romulan or a Borg or a Trill or anything... they're not hating on you. Does that make it all right for them to hate your character? Depends on the story arc, but personally, if you don't even know this person... why even care?

    Making forum posts on the STO public forums is perhaps not the best way of dealing with that kind of In-Character situation. As is seen in this thread, there is as much flaming going on as anything else, and stepping up on your soap box to say "stop all of this RP immediately" is a bit overdramatic and ineffective. If somebody treats your character inappropriately in RP, perhaps the best way to deal with it (aside from the aforementioned /ignore and instance hopping) is simply to deal with it in RP. Walk away, call a superior officer to give him a good yelling or simply knock him on his butt. Or... be the superior individual and laugh it off in RP as well as RL. Guy wants to cry and rage because Borg killed his father? Let him cry. Go fetch your violin.


    (This is, of course, assuming this behavior stemmed from troll-ish behavior or simply bad RP. If you are working with somebody on an RP arc and hateful behavior is part of it as character development or villainy, then whatever floats your boat... and perhaps take it out of the public eye to avoid any confusion by other players unaware of your story arc, rather than throw it at random folks.)


    TL;DR: Hateful behavior is bad in any form - but it is a common storytelling trope in Star Trek and should be used only as such. Making a grand stand on the forums: perhaps not the best way of addressing the issue.
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    eulifdavis wrote: »
    3.) The players who really want to grief or otherwise ruin someone's day, but need a way to "legitimize" it so they don't get punished by the game moderators.

    Of those 3 categories, the person you described (up until I stopped reading) definitely fit in category 3. These are the same people that aren't happy with the Romulans now being peaceful, and more or less the same people that also want to force PvP on the community at large (open-world, non-consensual PvP). I've found it's often best to just report them for griefing, trolling, or any other infraction that fits their behavior, ignore them, and then move on.

    (Category #2 is actually worse, but that's beyond the scope of your thread.)
    I loathe the low aim Federomulans represent, don't RP (except to make fun of the occasional category 1 RPer) and don't PvP (in this game).

    Which of your bigot categories does that put me in?

    And what's wrong with thinking that the story is lame? It is. We could as easily have been playing as a more neutral RSE, while Sela and the Tal'Shiar wear the obvious black hat and D'Tan and his unificationist losers wear the obvious white hat.

    How did D'Tan or enough of his ilk even survive Hobus? We're led to believe that the RSE was mortally wounded by Hobus; that the majority of Romulans perished as a result. Even if you suspend disbelief and say that D'Tan's message resonates more widely than we see in canon, they couldn't possibly be so large as to survive Hobus so well intact. That would be very exciting if I thought Cryptic had the stones to drop a big surprise on us, and reveal that D'Tan was actually the triggerman for Hobus, hence why his movement was already pre-positioned to survive the event.

    My problem with this story is that it reeks of exactly the same kind of politically correct nonsense which writers (poorly) tried to ram into Voyager, Entercrap and parts of DS9. There's none of the depth or nuance which was displayed in TOS, or even in TNG or (parts of) DS9.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I loathe the low aim Federomulans represent, don't RP (except to make fun of the occasional category 1 RPer) and don't PvP (in this game).

    Which of your bigot categories does that put me in?

    That puts you in the 3rd Category if you do it with the express intention of making someone else feel bad about it in order to get them to stop. Whatever they are doing in this game as long as it doesn't breach the ToS or the law is their business and no one elses.
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    tc10b wrote: »
    That puts you in the 3rd Category if you do it with the express intention of making someone else feel bad about it in order to get them to stop.
    I gently chide, in character, hopeless Don Juan's whom I observe trolling any and all "female" RPers as I'm casually playing dabo in Quark's.
    tc10b wrote: »
    Whatever they are doing in this game as long as it doesn't breach the ToS or the law is their business and no one elses.
    For me to even notice them in the first place, they're already skirting with breaching at least the ToS.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    You could always just remind them half those ladies are dudes :p

    Isn't this whole game a RPing game, after all I don't have real access to a star ship, I'm not an Orion, and sadest of all I'm not ripped. Okay that was really second sadest, sadest of all is my gorgeous bridge officers aren't real.

    I never have time to RP, I'm too busy grinding dil and marks, who has time for RP. Still isn't the best tool for RP the foundry? Can you use the foundry as a group?
This discussion has been closed.