Why would Cryptic want to develop more modes of PVP play, leaderboards, zone control, etc. for a populace that is *guaranteed* to stay small? A populace that has greatly lost in size since the game came out, and has never recovered?
Easy answer to that...
Cryptic should want to develop more for PVP to help encourage players to want to PVP, other wise it's *guaranteed* to stay small. Less options for PVP = Less Desire to continue doing the same old thing by the player base.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I pledge my Loyalty to Pvp and the honor that is found with in it by the mature and like minded.
Good Kill, and Good game are the words for pvp. Whether you win our loose. Be thankful to those who participated even if they may not be gracious.
When and if someone pops you and you know you could have survived. Say good kill. It does wonders. Let you ego go sometimes. No need to hash out every death people. We all have our time to meet our makers. whether it by someone lucky shot or some ones skill.
No one can win them all, and yes if the sun was in your eyes. Toughen up and say good killr good game anyway. It goes along way sometimes.
To those that like to talk. Let them talk. They are mostly talk and they will show them selves for what who they are. No need to feed into them or drag your self down a peg by acknowledging immature behavior. Instead just use them as target practice. : )
Retired Rear Admiral-Jay Maverick-
Known simply as -Maverick-
Klingons should Beware of Maverick.
Maverick loves a fight and tends to be victorious even as the underdog.
He has an aptitude for tactics,guerrilla warfare and security.
"United Federation of Planets"
12th Fleet - Intelligence Division "Khalija" - Alpha Group
Not on Current Assignment.-On Retirement leave at Leach Lake in Minnesota
To Q for FVK
To Bring your A-game
To rise above the trolls and say GG
To never quit, surrender, afk or rage log
To go for the hard target and spare the noob
To x for BIG PVP
to tell your friends, family, enemies.. get ur TRIBBLE back here. we need YOU.
where have all teh legends gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
to those wtill here I SALUTE YOU!
pew onward (not upward)
gggggggg
I still play,,unfortunately my fleet is not big on pvp, so i have to pug it which sucks most of the time but i still play and always say GG in zone before i leave the map.
Perhaps I will when I get a gaming keyboard and learn to program macros and have all my abilities on a single button key-bind, then at least I can be competitive. As it stands now if you don't use the latter then you wont stand a chance even with all Elite fleet gear and weapons and XII purple consoles and a JHAS. People can spend hundreds of dollars and get the best ships and gear the game has to offer. You will still get one-shotted and not make a dent in other players shields until you learn to key-bind all your abilities and have your combos on a single button macro to fire it off, and to keep all your heals on constant hands free rotation. Before all of this became the norm PVP use to be fun, and its still fun at lower levels, but once you get to 50 your SOL.
I dont know how that works to bind everything to one button,,,at one point i had fire all phasers,,TT,,and distribute shields all bound to my space bar and i didnt like it as it caused a slight lag in my firing of weapons.
Fun. Winning. Having a good time...even when losing. Playing with friends. Getting better. Learning more about the game. Making new friends...even making enemies.
Perhaps it's because I've gotten up there in years, but I can't stand the what's in it for me generation...
Agreed,,,i started this game with the hopes of playing space pvp online,,,however it would be nice if their was some kind of leaderboard or even some nice drops once in awhile in the arena,,and for God sake i wish they would make a premade arena and a pug arena,,as i have barely anybody in my fleet to do pre-mades with,,most of them only lvl up for the pve,,i do it to get better at pvp, im not the greatest by no means but i hate hitting a pug with TRIBBLE players who wont even communicate and get the TRIBBLE kicked out of me.
Tbh, since the release of LoR, PvP space has been an utter joke.
Queue for 15 minutes to go in and oh look, its a premade using two recluses, two Wells class ships and a bug ship. Oh look, more shuttle, spam, cheese than you can poke a big cheesy spammy stick at. Its so bad it just causes frame rates to drop by 95% (And Im set for BF4 and ARMA3), using the still glitched and invisible plasma and theta, then congratulating themselves on a random pug team well stomped.
Some seem to forget, not everyone has a big PvP fleet, or dont have the contacts to set up premade (not counting the practice required just for a quick game and remain slightly competitive).
Now I know what some will say, 'Join the OPvP channel'. Possibly not, I did a while ago and frankly I left and silenced it quite rapidly, so many elitists when I was on, it was unreal.
You say 'do PvP bootcamp'. Why should we do PvP bootcamp just for the odd game?
Or are occasional PvPers not allowed a fair (in the loosest sense with this game) or even a fighting chance?
The queues need to be sorted, stop the premades going in against random pug teams. Its not even fun, especially when they use that much cr*p in the match that you cant move, let alone fight.
Tbh, since the release of LoR, PvP space has been an utter joke.
Queue for 15 minutes to go in and oh look, its a premade using two recluses, two Wells class ships and a bug ship. Oh look, more shuttle, spam, cheese than you can poke a big cheesy spammy stick at. Its so bad it just causes frame rates to drop by 95% (And Im set for BF4 and ARMA3), using the still glitched and invisible plasma and theta, then congratulating themselves on a random pug team well stomped.
Some seem to forget, not everyone has a big PvP fleet, or dont have the contacts to set up premade (not counting the practice required just for a quick game and remain slightly competitive).
Now I know what some will say, 'Join the OPvP channel'. Possibly not, I did a while ago and frankly I left and silenced it quite rapidly, so many elitists when I was on, it was unreal.
You say 'do PvP bootcamp'. Why should we do PvP bootcamp just for the odd game?
Or are occasional PvPers not allowed a fair (in the loosest sense with this game) or even a fighting chance?
The queues need to be sorted, stop the premades going in against random pug teams. Its not even fun, especially when they use that much cr*p in the match that you cant move, let alone fight.
sadly everyones experience in game and life is different. i am deeply saddened those in opvp didnt "tell you what you wanted to hear" (or outright trolled)...
As a moderator i try to put the kaibash on that sort of thing and foster an environment of pleasant but competitive comradery.
The breadth of information and "required reading" in the game is tantamount to a 300 level course. Ifu wanna see the syllabus to the leetclass ask one of the many master teachers. Dont forget to ignore the individual (not fleet, channel as whole, or entire aspect of game...)
Or are occasional PvPers not allowed a fair (in the loosest sense with this game) or even a fighting chance?
The queues need to be sorted, stop the premades going in against random pug teams. Its not even fun, especially when they use that much cr*p in the match that you cant move, let alone fight.
So make some friends. I started off pugging, but then I made more friends and suddenly I don't have to fly by myself.
Tbh, since the release of LoR, PvP space has been an utter joke.
Queue for 15 minutes to go in and oh look, its a premade using two recluses, two Wells class ships and a bug ship. Oh look, more shuttle, spam, cheese than you can poke a big cheesy spammy stick at. Its so bad it just causes frame rates to drop by 95% (And Im set for BF4 and ARMA3), using the still glitched and invisible plasma and theta, then congratulating themselves on a random pug team well stomped.
Some seem to forget, not everyone has a big PvP fleet, or dont have the contacts to set up premade (not counting the practice required just for a quick game and remain slightly competitive).
Now I know what some will say, 'Join the OPvP channel'. Possibly not, I did a while ago and frankly I left and silenced it quite rapidly, so many elitists when I was on, it was unreal.
You say 'do PvP bootcamp'. Why should we do PvP bootcamp just for the odd game?
Or are occasional PvPers not allowed a fair (in the loosest sense with this game) or even a fighting chance?
The queues need to be sorted, stop the premades going in against random pug teams. Its not even fun, especially when they use that much cr*p in the match that you cant move, let alone fight.
Kerrat is your friend, you need a ship that cloaks, and to learn alpha strikes. You can learn a lot there and don't need to be teamed at all, it is usually all random chaos with little focus firing if there are any big battles, and often people are spread out enough that there is usually small battles of only 2-4 people. There is no kill count so you aren't under pressure to decloak and get your kill right away like in arena.
Also give cap and hold a try, battles there are usually spread out so less focusing, and less premades using all recluse/wells/JHAS, it is much more suited to people who are good individual fighters then arena. Be warned though as there will be many people on the other team who are also good individual fighters who are used to taking people down on their own without any subnucc or any other support.
Once you can build up enough skill in those then you could give arena a try again with opvp channel group and not feel like you are going in without any experience.
You say 'do PvP bootcamp'. Why should we do PvP bootcamp just for the odd game?
Or are occasional PvPers not allowed a fair (in the loosest sense with this game) or even a fighting chance?
Why do PVP Boot Camp? To perhaps improve. Learn new strategies and concepts you might not have considered before. To find new players to team with who might also be trying to improve. To learn from those players who have been playing this game for so long that they might have something to show you that you may not have known.
Organized PVP, and the PVP Boot Camp are tools to help improve how you PVP in STO, since PVP can be like jumping into a Shark tank full of a Feeding Frenzy while naked and expecting you to know how to defend yourself and survive.
Premades will usually trump a Pug. Because they will have better communication, the advantage of having worked together longer, and builds that typically compliment each other. This will never truly change no matter how much we want it to.
The best thing to do is to try to find a group that you can get along with, who is like minded, and be willing to play with them so that you can compete. Even if that means asking the Premade that just kicked your butt what you did wrong, and if maybe they are recruiting so that you can learn what they might have done beyond simple team work that you could learn.
Ignorance is no excuse, it is a decision. And if you choose to be ignorant to help when it is given to you, or if you choose to ignore the options that are available to you, then there should be little complaint, or little surprise when your complaints fall on deaf ears if you choose to be ignorant. (I am not assuming that you are so. I am simply giving general advice, your quote above was responded to a paragraph or two ago. The remainder was general information and advice.)
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
As it is now, you try to pug on your own, you face premade after premade and no fun at all. Danoob all over the screen, wells, recluse, yellowstone full of p2w. I'd give most of these guys, if not all, a run for their money with a 1 on 1, when you put 5 together in a premade when you pug, no fun at all. I don't have the temperament to deal with that, give me a fair fight, if I loose I don't mind but unfortunatly its hardly ever like that. so I don't need the aggravation and instead I relax having fun with pve content and hardly ever pvp. And don't even want to get into fvk pvp with the exception of Kerrat.
Jamal : Tactical space specialist. USS Bug Warrior and many others
E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
I used to PVP a lot, not to fight, but simply for the dilithium. When it gets to the stage you know know with fair certainty that there will be a premade team on the other side... PVP becomes pointless. Nothing more than a turkey shoot for the premades to test their latest P2W tricked out ships.
For instance today i done 5 PVP matches in a row, basically waiting on the Gear/Dil missions going on cooldown. ALL FIVE matches i was up against premades who roflstomped the pug team 0/15 each time then said "GG" in chat.
I'm sorry, might have been a "GG" for them with their tricked out lockbox ships and stacks of p2w spam that they threw ow out. In all honesty those matches aint 5 v 5, there is now so much spam being thrown out by premade teams its more like 5 v 10
As for PVP bootcamp... umm why? Whats the point of a "boot camp" can your "boot camp" tell me how to make my fleet excelsior tank against 2 bug ships, a recluse, a wells and a generic cruiser, with all the spam they are throwing out?
No?
I didnt think so...
PVP is now the domain of the pre made team...it is of little to no use for anyone else. The OPVP channel though is still worth joining, a lot of help there from folks if you want to set your ship up for generic STF or to be roflstomped by premade teams in PVP.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
I think a more grave decision than someone deciding to do a little PvP on the side just for fun is a premade queuing up knowing full well they will face mostly pugs. Its a decision too. The ones at fault are not the PvP players making a premade, but rather a system that hasn't evolved to accommodate its playerbase at large better, or rather, a developper that can't be bothered to make a pug only queue for maps that have already existed for YEARS.
If you want to see what keep PvP small and niche you need look no further than Cryptic Studios.
Why do PVP Boot Camp? To perhaps improve. Learn new strategies and concepts you might not have considered before. To find new players to team with who might also be trying to improve. To learn from those players who have been playing this game for so long that they might have something to show you that you may not have known.
Organized PVP, and the PVP Boot Camp are tools to help improve how you PVP in STO, since PVP can be like jumping into a Shark tank full of a Feeding Frenzy while naked and expecting you to know how to defend yourself and survive.
Premades will usually trump a Pug. Because they will have better communication, the advantage of having worked together longer, and builds that typically compliment each other. This will never truly change no matter how much we want it to.
The best thing to do is to try to find a group that you can get along with, who is like minded, and be willing to play with them so that you can compete. Even if that means asking the Premade that just kicked your butt what you did wrong, and if maybe they are recruiting so that you can learn what they might have done beyond simple team work that you could learn.
Ignorance is no excuse, it is a decision. And if you choose to be ignorant to help when it is given to you, or if you choose to ignore the options that are available to you, then there should be little complaint, or little surprise when your complaints fall on deaf ears if you choose to be ignorant. (I am not assuming that you are so. I am simply giving general advice, your quote above was responded to a paragraph or two ago. The remainder was general information and advice.)
So after this huge wall of text, basically what you are saying is that basically pug players who do PvP occasionally aren't allowed or entitled to a good time but instead have to do PvP bootcamp.
I've spoken to a great many about the boot camp, to be honest many of them didn't like some of the tactics and broken toys that were being taught.
I have already grouped in quite a few times with premades, a very good premade team at that.
We spent an evening rolling premades with ease.
Still wasn't all that fun because of the cheese and spam being used.
What's even less fun is going against a pug team as a premade, no fun for us and certainly no fun for them.
Read through all the posts, you might find a common trend.
All those premade P2W outfitted teams with all their cheese and spam are the ones who ruin it, that's an observation I agree with from both sides of the coin, ie as a premade and a pug.
So after this huge wall of text, basically what you are saying is that basically pug players who do PvP occasionally aren't allowed or entitled to a good time but instead have to do PvP bootcamp.
I've spoken to a great many about the boot camp, to be honest many of them didn't like some of the tactics and broken toys that were being taught.
~Snip~
Read through all the posts, you might find a common trend.
All those premade P2W outfitted teams with all their cheese and spam are the ones who ruin it, that's an observation I agree with from both sides of the coin, ie as a premade and a pug.
No, after that moderately sized Wall of text (I have honestly written and seen much larger), I am not saying Pug players who do PVP occasionally aren't allowed or entitled to a good time and have to do boot camp. I am suggesting that PVP Boot camp can help. I am not stating it is MANDATORY. I no where in my text implied that. If you got that type of a feeling from that, I apologize, because that was not my intent. Everything I gave was suggestion based, not force down throat type.
Please do not assume that I have not been reading through all the posts. Yes, I know that some players (My self included) Do not enjoy the "Pay to win" tactics that have been forced down our throats by Cryptic. How ever after 2 years of things being forced on us, do you really feel you could win with out anything Pay 2 Win any more? I mean can we even use the term Pay to win in STO? Everything can be earned in game via Dilithium Grinding or EC Grinding. So in a way you aren't paying to win.. not really. Grinding to Win perhaps, but not paying to win if your doing it that way..
There are plenty of things in STO that make PVP more difficult to enjoy. One of them is that the game is PVE First. What I mean is that if it doesn't effect PVE in a major way, and it isn't a huge Bug or unintended side effect in PVP, it doesn't get much attention right away. (Ker'rat seems to be a special case, lol) You don't hear players complain about "P2W" in PVE, unless it's bringing a major undesired effect, so we'll continue to get more of it.
So, with that additional Wall of Text being displayed, simply put, I don't care if you enjoy PVP via Tier 4.5 ships with no C-Store/Lobi Store/LockBox Toys, or if you fully kit out your ship in the most broken toys the game can handle. If you like to PVP, cool. If you don't, then find something else to enjoy. It's a game after all.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
For all those that seem to steer clear of the queues due to fear of premades, you are more then welcome to come and hang out with us. Fleets like ours and several others as well are great places to not only learn a few things but to make connections. Going in alone can get a bit dull, nobody will disagree there, doesn't matter who you are, against a premade the odds of winning with pugs are never good.
Most fleets don't care where you are from, don't care what fleet you're in or what experience you can bring to the table. They only ask for you to embrace team work, take the game with a pinch of salt and be open to improvement as you get more experience.
If you genuinely want to make roads into PVP, do it with other people around to have a laugh with and get help from, otherwise there's always another repetitive STF for you to do on your own.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
I'm unhappy with the state of quite a few things in this game but the only thing keeping me from PvP is my connection. I miss it sometimes but the doffs keep me busy.
Of course, the thing that is keeping me from doffing right now is that the update hits 94%, stalls and then restarts...
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Just left a fed v kdf capture and hold, thought id give it a try.
My fleet excelsior with 2pc borg set and elite fleet shield taken down with what looked like one volley of torpedos and half an alpha. A 63k hull ship with elite fleet shields...
Yeah... TRIBBLE pvp, cryptic can remove it for all i care...
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
Just left a fed v kdf capture and hold, thought id give it a try.
My fleet excelsior with 2pc borg set and elite fleet shield taken down with what looked like one volley of torpedos and half an alpha. A 63k hull ship with elite fleet shields...
Yeah... TRIBBLE pvp, cryptic can remove it for all i care...
So you thought you'd own it up your first try? You're going to lose at any multiplayer pvp game your first try, from MMO's to FPS's to RTS's to checkers...everything. Maybe instead of whining about dying you should ask us how you could better survive. Hull, shields, gear...it all means nothing if you're not using proper defensive bridge officer powers at the right time and defensively maneuvering your ship. But go ahead, throw a hissy fit and quit because you got popped your first time out.
What PvP really needs are people that have the desire to improve.
This is why there needs to be an improved queue system.
The problem lies there, that's why new people don't want to come in.
Even FPS games a new player can still get kills.
STO PvP just doesn't cater for all, it caters for the handful of high end fleets with P2W teams, who on the same note object to anything that might make it a challenge (that romulan console for one).
There are people willing to help but for the most part they don't because they enjoy stomping easy pugs to much and make their dilithium and EC.
I'm truly looking forward to gta 5, BF 4 and ARMA3. Then I can drop this game completely.
Frankly, PvE sucks, its boring and to easy, or its impossible with little to no reward.
The PvP also is pretty terrible due to the playing field being so slanted towards the few.
As an example, whilst premading myself, 4 premade teams rage quit cos their shady tactics failed (that was in the space of an hour).
They were only there to stomp pugs.
Side note. Nice to see the thread got cleaned.
Just a shame it was only stuff that pointed out broken game mechanics and a fleet member using less than above board stuff (not in PvP at that time).
Bet nothing gets done about that!
Maybe instead of whining about dying you should ask us how you could better survive.
But go ahead, throw a hissy fit and quit because you got popped your first time out.
What PvP really needs are people that have the desire to improve.
Attitudes like this, that why I don't need PvP and yeah I read the PvP bootcamp thing and well, it had the opposite effect on me. 'Cause basically it says:
Get Ship X or you screwed.
Get BOFFs X, Y, Z or your screwed
Get DOFFs X, Y, Z or your screwed
Use powers X, Y, Z or your screwed
and on and on and on.... so one dimensional...
so all this begging by the "pros" for more noob fodder doesn't sway me i the least.
Comments
Easy answer to that...
Cryptic should want to develop more for PVP to help encourage players to want to PVP, other wise it's *guaranteed* to stay small. Less options for PVP = Less Desire to continue doing the same old thing by the player base.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I pledge my Loyalty to Pvp and the honor that is found with in it by the mature and like minded.
Good Kill, and Good game are the words for pvp. Whether you win our loose. Be thankful to those who participated even if they may not be gracious.
When and if someone pops you and you know you could have survived. Say good kill. It does wonders. Let you ego go sometimes. No need to hash out every death people. We all have our time to meet our makers. whether it by someone lucky shot or some ones skill.
No one can win them all, and yes if the sun was in your eyes. Toughen up and say good killr good game anyway. It goes along way sometimes.
To those that like to talk. Let them talk. They are mostly talk and they will show them selves for what who they are. No need to feed into them or drag your self down a peg by acknowledging immature behavior. Instead just use them as target practice. : )
Known simply as -Maverick-
Klingons should Beware of Maverick.
Maverick loves a fight and tends to be victorious even as the underdog.
He has an aptitude for tactics,guerrilla warfare and security.
"United Federation of Planets"
12th Fleet - Intelligence Division "Khalija" - Alpha Group
Not on Current Assignment.-On Retirement leave at Leach Lake in Minnesota
i know it does
i use freighters and shuttlkes, and take on premades with a laugh
and super builds
its like they are all jacked up and if they do really well - they can kill a shuttle
lol
course that is rare fro a premade to beat my shuttle
cause i tell my team "premade" mask and make them hunt then pounce
and it works
the shuttle man - bane of the premaders and super builders
I still play,,unfortunately my fleet is not big on pvp, so i have to pug it which sucks most of the time but i still play and always say GG in zone before i leave the map.
I dont know how that works to bind everything to one button,,,at one point i had fire all phasers,,TT,,and distribute shields all bound to my space bar and i didnt like it as it caused a slight lag in my firing of weapons.
Agreed,,,i started this game with the hopes of playing space pvp online,,,however it would be nice if their was some kind of leaderboard or even some nice drops once in awhile in the arena,,and for God sake i wish they would make a premade arena and a pug arena,,as i have barely anybody in my fleet to do pre-mades with,,most of them only lvl up for the pve,,i do it to get better at pvp, im not the greatest by no means but i hate hitting a pug with TRIBBLE players who wont even communicate and get the TRIBBLE kicked out of me.
Queue for 15 minutes to go in and oh look, its a premade using two recluses, two Wells class ships and a bug ship. Oh look, more shuttle, spam, cheese than you can poke a big cheesy spammy stick at. Its so bad it just causes frame rates to drop by 95% (And Im set for BF4 and ARMA3), using the still glitched and invisible plasma and theta, then congratulating themselves on a random pug team well stomped.
Some seem to forget, not everyone has a big PvP fleet, or dont have the contacts to set up premade (not counting the practice required just for a quick game and remain slightly competitive).
Now I know what some will say, 'Join the OPvP channel'. Possibly not, I did a while ago and frankly I left and silenced it quite rapidly, so many elitists when I was on, it was unreal.
You say 'do PvP bootcamp'. Why should we do PvP bootcamp just for the odd game?
Or are occasional PvPers not allowed a fair (in the loosest sense with this game) or even a fighting chance?
The queues need to be sorted, stop the premades going in against random pug teams. Its not even fun, especially when they use that much cr*p in the match that you cant move, let alone fight.
sadly everyones experience in game and life is different. i am deeply saddened those in opvp didnt "tell you what you wanted to hear" (or outright trolled)...
As a moderator i try to put the kaibash on that sort of thing and foster an environment of pleasant but competitive comradery.
The breadth of information and "required reading" in the game is tantamount to a 300 level course. Ifu wanna see the syllabus to the leetclass ask one of the many master teachers. Dont forget to ignore the individual (not fleet, channel as whole, or entire aspect of game...)
Last one I guess:
Pvp Needs you to not be an TRIBBLE.
you know who you are
...yol*cough
So make some friends. I started off pugging, but then I made more friends and suddenly I don't have to fly by myself.
If you're social you'll always have backup.
Kerrat is your friend, you need a ship that cloaks, and to learn alpha strikes. You can learn a lot there and don't need to be teamed at all, it is usually all random chaos with little focus firing if there are any big battles, and often people are spread out enough that there is usually small battles of only 2-4 people. There is no kill count so you aren't under pressure to decloak and get your kill right away like in arena.
Also give cap and hold a try, battles there are usually spread out so less focusing, and less premades using all recluse/wells/JHAS, it is much more suited to people who are good individual fighters then arena. Be warned though as there will be many people on the other team who are also good individual fighters who are used to taking people down on their own without any subnucc or any other support.
Once you can build up enough skill in those then you could give arena a try again with opvp channel group and not feel like you are going in without any experience.
Why do PVP Boot Camp? To perhaps improve. Learn new strategies and concepts you might not have considered before. To find new players to team with who might also be trying to improve. To learn from those players who have been playing this game for so long that they might have something to show you that you may not have known.
Organized PVP, and the PVP Boot Camp are tools to help improve how you PVP in STO, since PVP can be like jumping into a Shark tank full of a Feeding Frenzy while naked and expecting you to know how to defend yourself and survive.
Premades will usually trump a Pug. Because they will have better communication, the advantage of having worked together longer, and builds that typically compliment each other. This will never truly change no matter how much we want it to.
The best thing to do is to try to find a group that you can get along with, who is like minded, and be willing to play with them so that you can compete. Even if that means asking the Premade that just kicked your butt what you did wrong, and if maybe they are recruiting so that you can learn what they might have done beyond simple team work that you could learn.
Ignorance is no excuse, it is a decision. And if you choose to be ignorant to help when it is given to you, or if you choose to ignore the options that are available to you, then there should be little complaint, or little surprise when your complaints fall on deaf ears if you choose to be ignorant. (I am not assuming that you are so. I am simply giving general advice, your quote above was responded to a paragraph or two ago. The remainder was general information and advice.)
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
As it is now, you try to pug on your own, you face premade after premade and no fun at all. Danoob all over the screen, wells, recluse, yellowstone full of p2w. I'd give most of these guys, if not all, a run for their money with a 1 on 1, when you put 5 together in a premade when you pug, no fun at all. I don't have the temperament to deal with that, give me a fair fight, if I loose I don't mind but unfortunatly its hardly ever like that. so I don't need the aggravation and instead I relax having fun with pve content and hardly ever pvp. And don't even want to get into fvk pvp with the exception of Kerrat.
E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
I used to PVP a lot, not to fight, but simply for the dilithium. When it gets to the stage you know know with fair certainty that there will be a premade team on the other side... PVP becomes pointless. Nothing more than a turkey shoot for the premades to test their latest P2W tricked out ships.
For instance today i done 5 PVP matches in a row, basically waiting on the Gear/Dil missions going on cooldown. ALL FIVE matches i was up against premades who roflstomped the pug team 0/15 each time then said "GG" in chat.
I'm sorry, might have been a "GG" for them with their tricked out lockbox ships and stacks of p2w spam that they threw ow out. In all honesty those matches aint 5 v 5, there is now so much spam being thrown out by premade teams its more like 5 v 10
As for PVP bootcamp... umm why? Whats the point of a "boot camp" can your "boot camp" tell me how to make my fleet excelsior tank against 2 bug ships, a recluse, a wells and a generic cruiser, with all the spam they are throwing out?
No?
I didnt think so...
PVP is now the domain of the pre made team...it is of little to no use for anyone else. The OPVP channel though is still worth joining, a lot of help there from folks if you want to set your ship up for generic STF or to be roflstomped by premade teams in PVP.
I think a more grave decision than someone deciding to do a little PvP on the side just for fun is a premade queuing up knowing full well they will face mostly pugs. Its a decision too. The ones at fault are not the PvP players making a premade, but rather a system that hasn't evolved to accommodate its playerbase at large better, or rather, a developper that can't be bothered to make a pug only queue for maps that have already existed for YEARS.
If you want to see what keep PvP small and niche you need look no further than Cryptic Studios.
So after this huge wall of text, basically what you are saying is that basically pug players who do PvP occasionally aren't allowed or entitled to a good time but instead have to do PvP bootcamp.
I've spoken to a great many about the boot camp, to be honest many of them didn't like some of the tactics and broken toys that were being taught.
I have already grouped in quite a few times with premades, a very good premade team at that.
We spent an evening rolling premades with ease.
Still wasn't all that fun because of the cheese and spam being used.
What's even less fun is going against a pug team as a premade, no fun for us and certainly no fun for them.
Read through all the posts, you might find a common trend.
All those premade P2W outfitted teams with all their cheese and spam are the ones who ruin it, that's an observation I agree with from both sides of the coin, ie as a premade and a pug.
No, after that moderately sized Wall of text (I have honestly written and seen much larger), I am not saying Pug players who do PVP occasionally aren't allowed or entitled to a good time and have to do boot camp. I am suggesting that PVP Boot camp can help. I am not stating it is MANDATORY. I no where in my text implied that. If you got that type of a feeling from that, I apologize, because that was not my intent. Everything I gave was suggestion based, not force down throat type.
Please do not assume that I have not been reading through all the posts. Yes, I know that some players (My self included) Do not enjoy the "Pay to win" tactics that have been forced down our throats by Cryptic. How ever after 2 years of things being forced on us, do you really feel you could win with out anything Pay 2 Win any more? I mean can we even use the term Pay to win in STO? Everything can be earned in game via Dilithium Grinding or EC Grinding. So in a way you aren't paying to win.. not really. Grinding to Win perhaps, but not paying to win if your doing it that way..
There are plenty of things in STO that make PVP more difficult to enjoy. One of them is that the game is PVE First. What I mean is that if it doesn't effect PVE in a major way, and it isn't a huge Bug or unintended side effect in PVP, it doesn't get much attention right away. (Ker'rat seems to be a special case, lol) You don't hear players complain about "P2W" in PVE, unless it's bringing a major undesired effect, so we'll continue to get more of it.
So, with that additional Wall of Text being displayed, simply put, I don't care if you enjoy PVP via Tier 4.5 ships with no C-Store/Lobi Store/LockBox Toys, or if you fully kit out your ship in the most broken toys the game can handle. If you like to PVP, cool. If you don't, then find something else to enjoy. It's a game after all.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Most fleets don't care where you are from, don't care what fleet you're in or what experience you can bring to the table. They only ask for you to embrace team work, take the game with a pinch of salt and be open to improvement as you get more experience.
If you genuinely want to make roads into PVP, do it with other people around to have a laugh with and get help from, otherwise there's always another repetitive STF for you to do on your own.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Of course, the thing that is keeping me from doffing right now is that the update hits 94%, stalls and then restarts...
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
Decided I was getting melted far too quickly and am stacking resists of all kinds, wherever I can find them on my ship.
Now I lead in healing most matches and survive alpha strikes with RSP, let the escort blow its load and laugh.
Nice job, the resists are a very important part of STO PvP. Glad to hear you discovered this yourself.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
that has always been my worry about this "premade hate" that seems to come from this game.
even a group of a2-3 friends teaming, if thye happen to be in the same fleet get labeled a premade.
its pretty fracked up.
how dare people make friends in this game an abuse the teamwork system by actually working together.
good thing cryptic is making every ship more self sustainable with all these passives... -rolls eyes-
sto should have had a lot more then just that a long time ago.
Do you even Science Bro?
- Judge Aaron Satie
My fleet excelsior with 2pc borg set and elite fleet shield taken down with what looked like one volley of torpedos and half an alpha. A 63k hull ship with elite fleet shields...
Yeah... TRIBBLE pvp, cryptic can remove it for all i care...
So you thought you'd own it up your first try? You're going to lose at any multiplayer pvp game your first try, from MMO's to FPS's to RTS's to checkers...everything. Maybe instead of whining about dying you should ask us how you could better survive. Hull, shields, gear...it all means nothing if you're not using proper defensive bridge officer powers at the right time and defensively maneuvering your ship. But go ahead, throw a hissy fit and quit because you got popped your first time out.
What PvP really needs are people that have the desire to improve.
@DevolvedOne
The problem lies there, that's why new people don't want to come in.
Even FPS games a new player can still get kills.
STO PvP just doesn't cater for all, it caters for the handful of high end fleets with P2W teams, who on the same note object to anything that might make it a challenge (that romulan console for one).
There are people willing to help but for the most part they don't because they enjoy stomping easy pugs to much and make their dilithium and EC.
I'm truly looking forward to gta 5, BF 4 and ARMA3. Then I can drop this game completely.
Frankly, PvE sucks, its boring and to easy, or its impossible with little to no reward.
The PvP also is pretty terrible due to the playing field being so slanted towards the few.
As an example, whilst premading myself, 4 premade teams rage quit cos their shady tactics failed (that was in the space of an hour).
They were only there to stomp pugs.
Side note. Nice to see the thread got cleaned.
Just a shame it was only stuff that pointed out broken game mechanics and a fleet member using less than above board stuff (not in PvP at that time).
Bet nothing gets done about that!
Attitudes like this, that why I don't need PvP and yeah I read the PvP bootcamp thing and well, it had the opposite effect on me. 'Cause basically it says:
Get Ship X or you screwed.
Get BOFFs X, Y, Z or your screwed
Get DOFFs X, Y, Z or your screwed
Use powers X, Y, Z or your screwed
and on and on and on.... so one dimensional...
so all this begging by the "pros" for more noob fodder doesn't sway me i the least.
hip63 :P
like in every mmo, not only STO