i can't help but find amusing that people are complaning about others buying zen and selling at a low price, blame them, not the game, if thats how they wish to spend their money, its their money, and cryptic benefits from letting this go on too, and f2p players get to buy stuff from z-store without paying ridiculous ammount of dil.
free market, isn't that what americans like so much?
i can't help but find amusing that people are complaning about others buying zen and selling at a low price, blame them, not the game, if thats how they wish to spend their money, its their money, and cryptic benefits from letting this go on too, and f2p players get to buy stuff from z-store without paying ridiculous ammount of dil.
free market, isn't that what americans like so much?
Irony is that all "free" markets are not really free - like the American stock exchanges - heavily manipulated by the Federal Reserve - don't be fooled by 'federal" its a private bank setting American interest rates and printing money - it's not the US Tresuray - it's a banking syndicate. All those paper money US dollars are the property of this private bank - NOT the gov;t of the United states.
Off topic but I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion about why they added vehicles. I played CoH for 8 years and CO since it launched and there has always been a core group of people in both games clamoring for an ingame version of the batmobile or other super vehicle.
It had nothing to do with trying to make CO ship centric like STO.
I want to agree with you, but the way the vehicles were realized as rigid non customizable transform devices with only gem slots for variety really felt more like STO ships than anything like a super hero vehicle. Also thevehicles they choose just do not work at all, only the Birdjets kinda fit, the other stuff is really shoehorned in. You'd think they would be customizable with lots of monetization options, but instead they went with the classic lockbox...
I played PnP Champs, believe me I wanted real super vehicles but what we got was not that. To me it just felt too much like an attempt to find the low cost money printing machine. A silver bullet, a license to print money, etc. TO be what ships are in STO. I don't think it worked at all. I know I haven't been back other than to do the Lemurian invasion map on my main... once.
I agree with Sollvax the amazing, we need a fixed rate system, so everyone can happy with the rates (like 110 / 120 or something) and this system as it stands is actually losing PWE money. There will be people who are silvers who can get oydsseys because of the exchange, ask me it should be removed, or you should to go an AI in-game (who could be a ferengi) who wants dilithium and he will give you Zen in exchange, or another wants Zen, and gives you Dilithium.
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
I agree with Sollvax the amazing, we need a fixed rate system, so everyone can happy with the rates (like 110 / 120 or something) and this system as it stands is actually losing PWE money. There will be people who are silvers who can get oydsseys because of the exchange, ask me it should be removed, or you should to go an AI in-game (who could be a ferengi) who wants dilithium and he will give you Zen in exchange, or another wants Zen, and gives you Dilithium.
The exchange rate can't possibly, unless it goes to an absurd level in either direction, cost Cryptic money, since every point of zen that's used in-game is either bought by a player or earned from those silly surveys. That's why it's an exchange. If it was an NPC, someone actually COULD buy an Odyssey pack and have no one pay for it.
Players who sell Dil for Zen are, well, polite leechers.
I'll clarify that statement.
In CO, I've seen countless times some Free2Player complaining that it's not fair that Paying Subscribers get this and get that and that they should get this whatever it is for free.
After about the 20th time, I lost sympathy for these players.
In essence, the Dil Exchange handed Free2Players a way to earn Zen without actually paying for it.
So, they gain all the benefits of a paid sub with no money down.
And, like the case I cited above, they are basically out to gain a benefit no matter who they inconvience.
A low exchange rate benefits them greatly, since it means they get maximum benefit from exploiting customers who actually pay to support to STO, to be blunt.
Now, I don't object to paying someone for their hard work, but paying less then the market rate is cheating your clients.
Imagine if I went to a asseyor's office and said, here's a rich gold mine and they say to me, sorry, we're going to pay you 1/3rd of it's value because it costs us less.
Same priniciple applies here!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Players who sell Dil for Zen are, well, polite leechers.
<snipitty snip>
Now, I don't object to paying someone for their hard work, but paying less then the market rate is cheating your clients.
Imagine if I went to a asseyor's office and said, here's a rich gold mine and they say to me, sorry, we're going to pay you 1/3rd of it's value because it costs us less.
Same priniciple applies here!
Nope it doesn't. You are comparing apples to oranges. The Dilithium exchange is a currency exchange. There is no "market" rate as these fluctuate even on an hourly basis let alone daily.
The Zen on the exchange was bought with real money or is sold by people who have the stipend. Therefore the company has been paid for it. It is not losing any money in relation to the exchange. An amount of Zen comes from the "free" Zen surveys, which the companies runing them pay PW for the ability to advertise them on the free Zen system.
The same could be said on those selling Zen for dilithium. You could call the leachers to, if we wanted to go to your extreme after all they could get all that dilithium themselves if they wanted to work for it just like those buying the Zen off the exchange could buy it for cash.
Thse who think the price is too low will just hold onto their Zen until the price rises. As more and more people do this then the amount of Zen available drops and it price will eventuially rise. If it rises too high for those buying then they will hold onto their dilithium until the price of Zen drops meaning the value of the dilitium has increased. Swings and roundabouts.
Players who sell Dil for Zen are, well, polite leechers.
Leechers are people who join missions and let others do all the work but still get the rewards in the end. People who sell dilithium are selling a commodity and are paid for it.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Players who sell Dil for Zen are, well, polite leechers.
I'll clarify that statement.
In CO, I've seen countless times some Free2Player complaining that it's not fair that Paying Subscribers get this and get that and that they should get this whatever it is for free.
After about the 20th time, I lost sympathy for these players.
In essence, the Dil Exchange handed Free2Players a way to earn Zen without actually paying for it.
So, they gain all the benefits of a paid sub with no money down.
And, like the case I cited above, they are basically out to gain a benefit no matter who they inconvience.
A low exchange rate benefits them greatly, since it means they get maximum benefit from exploiting customers who actually pay to support to STO, to be blunt.
Now, I don't object to paying someone for their hard work, but paying less then the market rate is cheating your clients.
Imagine if I went to a asseyor's office and said, here's a rich gold mine and they say to me, sorry, we're going to pay you 1/3rd of it's value because it costs us less.
Same priniciple applies here!
Mate I'm a F2P player, and yes I do make zen from dill. Don't blame me sunshine for a system created by, and supported by Perfect World and Cryptic.
Also for your info for every ship or costume set Ive purchased converting Zen from Dill I've bought another from real world cash.
By playing the game legitimately, by earning my dill doing missions and assignments then putting the dill back into the game either buying dill products or purchasing zen I'm helping the economy putting money into the game.
Don't rail at me or people like me, rail at cryptic/ PW for having this system in the first place. I'm saving up my D4Z for the Scimitar pack, I'm about 1/3rd of the way through and I'll be there in about a month and I will purchase it gladly knowing I did it within the system provided.
Don't like it then lobby PW to change it.
When the time comes for me to convert my Dilly may the economy crash down to 86 and i'll make a killing.
Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey flings Feathered Monkey poo...
speculation is the problem
Zen bought off the exchange should be lastingly bound to account
Why, dilitium exchange is a mini-game for me, like the exchange and the doff-system.
Buying selling & speculating.
Keybind: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9355971&postcount=463
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
"Oh no, the number is going up, I'm not getting enough zen!"
Conversely, I rarely see the other side of the argument, which is, nobody is getting enough Dil for selling Zen.
And that statement is shortly followed by the value taking a nosedive back down to what they consider to be acceptible.
Which means that somebody is actively working to keep the value low.
That's one of the reasons I'm suspicious about the number value.
In the real world we call this stock market manipulation.
And that happens to be illegal, by the way.
This is a game, with a completely closed system with an endless supply of Dil and Zen both of which are controlled by the company. The only control we have over it is whether or not people want to A: Buy Zen in the first place, and B: Mine/Earn Dilithium.
If no-one acquires Dilithium, there is less to sell, value of Zen goes up. If no-one buys Zen direct from the Cryptic/PWE then again, the value of Zen goes up. The reverse is also true, the more Dil or Zen available, the less value either one has. This is not manipulation as no-one can corner the market on either item, this is just normal, everyday supply and demand at work.
if those 'polite leechers', as you call them, weren't here, there'd be no dilithium for you to buy on the exchange. You'd have to grind it yourself. If you don't want to grind, you have to put up with what the current value of it is.
Paying (and dil buying) customers finance those who grind dilithium. And those grinders give those 'investors' a shortcut. As dil is (supposed to be) an in game time equivalent.
Depending on the situation (dil abundance, dil sinks, Zen store offers, ...), those two groups have to agree on a relative price. Each naturally wants the opposite.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Because in the ways that matter, they are the same.
You use them to buy ingame gear and unlocks.
Allow me to be brutally honest.
The reason players want the prices to be low is a selfish one, so they can benefit to the maximum by inconveniencing someone else.
I'm sorry, but you have a distorted view of how the market works. Of course the players that want the rate to be low are doing it for 'selfish' reasons. And conversely, those that want it to be higher want it for equally 'selfish' reasons. Everyone buys and sells for 'selfish' reasons. If I need Zen to buy the ships in the store, of course I'm going to want the rate to be low. If I need dilithium to buy rep gear, of course I'm going to want the rate to be high. You can see people on both sides of this fence in this very thread. Some want the dil, and some want the Zen (You fall into the 'I want dilithium' side). If there are more players that want dil than players that want Zen, the price goes down. If there are more players that want Zen, the price goes up. If the price goes too low, the dil buyers simply stop buying as more and more of them are unwilling to buy at that price (Your example of not filling your fleet project). This, in turn, causes the price to rise again. If the price goes too high, the Zen buyers simply stop buying as more and more of them are unwilling to pay the higher price. This, in turn, causes the price to come back down. Ultimately, the exchange equilibrates at the price at which the two sides agree.
And this exchange rate changes depending on what is going on in the game. If all of a sudden, people need a lot of dilithium (like new Romulan character needing gear), there will be more players on the 'buy dilithium' side of the exchange, and the price will fall. If, on the other hand, Cryptic suddenly releases a extremely popular Zstore ship, it will swing the other way.
Now, I don't object to paying someone for their hard work, but paying less then the market rate is cheating your clients.
Again, the current exchange rate IS the market rate. It may be lower than what YOU are willing to pay, but the market is made up of more than just you. There are just more people who are willing to buy at a rate less than you are willing to.
Imagine if I went to a asseyor's office and said, here's a rich gold mine and they say to me, sorry, we're going to pay you 1/3rd of it's value because it costs us less.
Same priniciple applies here!
Not really. Because a number of things determine something's 'Value'. And value is subject to change. Even in your example of a gold mine, the value changes. Have you looked at the price of gold? The price has fluctuated beween $1000 and $1900 (USD) per ounce over the last 2 years. In STO, the 'value' of dilithium changes over time. It becomes more valuable as more items become available for purchase. Think about your own characters. Wouldn't dilithium be more 'valuable' to your brand new toon? You'll need it to outfit him/her with the rep gear etc. But what about a fully outfitted toon that you've played for over a year that already has all the gear? For that toon, dilithium holds much less value. Or what if you were in a fleet that had a fully completed T5 starbase/embassy? Would dilithium hold as much 'value' in your eyes compared to being in a fleet that was looking at doing some expensive upgrades?
What you are arguing in these posts is only looking through the lens of your own situation. You might want to try looking at things from the other perspective. You don't have to be happy about it, but at least then you can understand why the prices are the way that they are.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's willful ignorance. Tilarta and his/her type simply see themselves as the center of the universe. Whatever is good for them is good for everyone, they think, and therefore, whatever doesn't work in their favor is a flaw in the game itself.
Players who sell Dil for Zen are, well, polite leechers.
In CO, I've seen countless times some Free2Player complaining that it's not fair that Paying Subscribers get this and get that and that they should get this whatever it is for free.
So you'll stereotype all silver players on the actions of a few whiners on the forums?
How do you expect people to view you, if not as a whiny player on the forum?
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Yep. This type of whining is no different than that thread a few weeks ago where the a few people were having a hissy fit that people were selling Master Keys for less than 2 million each.
It's a problem of perception. Just about everyone's is wrong sooner or later. Don't give them a complex about it lol. A lot of problems we have in the real world today stem from people forming a skewed interpretation of one idea or another and then attempting to apply that in a socially visible way. This tends to lead to some very unfortunate moments of reckoning that we should probably let people endure easily so they're more inclined to let them happen, and we can all start speaking the same language again... eventually
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
In America? No. It's been supplanted by slandering capitalism, and identifying with the victim group of the week (depending on what's in the news).
So you'll stereotype all silver players on the actions of a few whiners on the forums?
How do you expect people to view you, if not as a whiny player on the forum?
Silver player here and i have 861 zen up for sale at 1 Dilithium more than the lowest of 113. Hmmm not all silvers want Zen for low low prices and kinda makes the person you quoted to be very very misinformed and I would love to sell all that for 200 dilithium per. I grind dilithium, buy zen, sell zen. It doesnt matter how i got 1 or the other what matters is I exchange depending on my needs. Zen is real world money, but dilithium takes time to earn just like that real world money and is just as valuable to me.
As for the whole exchange i would love it if it fluctuated by 10 points or more every day, i could make a killing by buying and selling but sadly it is more long term investing and i need 2500 zen for a ship! meh i will have it next week anyway.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
You want to discuss this like adults, I'm okay with you taking a counterpoint stance.
But throwing out hostile posts when you have no real idea what to say, well, that says more about you then me.
By the way, my information doesn't come from the forums, I got it from just watching what people say ingame.
They have no idea I'm filing it in a mental database to use later.
This reason why I'm taking the Dil price drop so hard is the many versus few concept.
I don't want Dil for myself, it's to help my fleet.
Granted, we're a small fleet, but that's still a group.
If it wasn't for that one simple fact, I wouldn't care what the price of Dil was, since even at the low rate it is currently, that can sustain my individual requisition needs.
I hardly use Dil personally at all, whereas a Fleet has significantly higher demand on that material.
Whereas a C-point devaluer wants the C-points just to benefit themselves alone.
How does unlocking item X on one player benefit anyone but the person who unlocks it?
FYI I sell Master Keys for less then 2million!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
It's true that currently, dilithium can be used for 'group purposes' in Fleets while Zen are reserved for account/char unlocks.
On the other hand, dilithium also serves for a number of char unlocks (reputation stores, dil store,...).
Also, why do you want to help your fleet? Is there not a want to get access to some nice goodies for yourself there?
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
YThis reason why I'm taking the Dil price drop so hard is the many versus few concept.
I don't want Dil for myself, it's to help my fleet.
Granted, we're a small fleet, but that's still a group.
If it wasn't for that one simple fact, I wouldn't care what the price of Dil was, since even at the low rate it is currently, that can sustain my individual requisition needs.
I hardly use Dil personally at all, whereas a Fleet has significantly higher demand on that material.
Whereas a C-point devaluer wants the C-points just to benefit themselves alone.
How does unlocking item X on one player benefit anyone but the person who unlocks it?
FYI I sell Master Keys for less then 2million!
This counters the dilithium exchange being a currency market how? So far you have compared apples with oranges twice with your analogies.
As to the fleet matter I take it you won't be availing yourself of the bonuses and better equipment that comes from levelled fleets? If you are going to use them then it is a case of false altruism. You are dong exactly what the people you accuse of being selfish are doing. Trying to get the best deal for you.
You do realise that the people who buy Zen with dilithium really can not devalue it. They are reliant on the sellers if the sellers think it is too cheap then they stop selling. As more and more do this the price rises. The people selling it at the current price have decided that is a reasonable price at which to sell it.
But in general, there's very few items I actually need.
We've already unlocked the stuff I use, so there's actually nothing I need from the fleet base at the moment.
So, I can claim whatever goodies I regularly use right now.
The other items I'm interested in require at least one category to go all the way to maxed out (Fleet Ships, Purple romulan boffs/doffs), so that isn't even up for consideration at the moment.
Ask me about that in 5 years or more......... :cool:
The only thing I'm really interested in getting at the moment is the Interfleet Shuttle, but well, that requires an injection of around 400000+60000 Dil, counting the shuttle upgrade itself.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
This reason why I'm taking the Dil price drop so hard is the many versus few concept.
I don't want Dil for myself, it's to help my fleet.
Granted, we're a small fleet, but that's still a group.
Group or solo doesn't matter. Why? Because you are a MEMBER of your fleet. Wanting dilithium to help your fleet IS wanting it for yourself because you care about your fleet. You are part of a fleet family. You directly benefit from advancing your fleet. And it still puts you in the 'I want dilithium' camp rather than the 'I want Zen' camp. In fact, there are many others like you that want dilithium to advance their fleet. I am one of them. Most of my characters already have their gear, so why do I grind dilithium? To help my fleet. But because there are many like us, it drives the price on the exchange down.
Whereas a C-point devaluer wants the C-points just to benefit themselves alone.
How does unlocking item X on one player benefit anyone but the person who unlocks it?
You have it backwards. It is the Zen buyer that RAISES the price on the exchange. If no one wanted to buy Zen with dilithium, the price on the exchange would be at the floor of 25. In fact, there wouldn't be an exchange at all since there would be no one willing to trade their dilithium for Zen. Be glad that there are those wanting to buy Zen with dilithium. You should be hoping that there are more of them. If there were, prices would be a lot higher right now.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It seems the only way to add meaningful contribution to this discussion, without repeating what somebody else has said, is to quote the tenth Rule of Acquisition:
Here is something for people complaining about how much dilithium per zen has dropped and the greed for wanting more. Think about how long it takes to grind dilitium. 8k per day max per character. How much is 1 zen worth in real world money. 1 penny! A single copper penny! a dollar buys you 100 of them. 100 zen exchanged for 100 dilithium per zen is how much? A single character cannot make that in 1 day because of the limit on refining. But making that much dilithium takes how long? It takes longer to get a DOFF mission setup that earns 5 zen than it does to earn a penny at minimum wage people. How many of you are crying that your penny isnt worth over 114 dilithium? How many of you have dropped pennies in the take one leave one dish at the local gas station? Or dropped one and didnt bother to pick it up?
Cry me a river of tears and you will get not one ounce of sympathy from me or anyone that worked in the game to get dilithium to buy something. They worked a whole lot harder than you for that zen so have a little respect and put things in perspective when spitting out your greed.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Here is something for people complaining about how much dilithium per zen has dropped and the greed for wanting more. Think about how long it takes to grind dilitium. 8k per day max per character. How much is 1 zen worth in real world money. 1 penny! A single copper penny! a dollar buys you 100 of them. 100 zen exchanged for 100 dilithium per zen is how much? A single character cannot make that in 1 day because of the limit on refining. But making that much dilithium takes how long? It takes longer to get a DOFF mission setup that earns 5 zen than it does to earn a penny at minimum wage people. How many of you are crying that your penny isnt worth over 114 dilithium? How many of you have dropped pennies in the take one leave one dish at the local gas station? Or dropped one and didnt bother to pick it up?
Cry me a river of tears and you will get not one ounce of sympathy from me or anyone that worked in the game to get dilithium to buy something. They worked a whole lot harder than you for that zen so have a little respect and put things in perspective when spitting out your greed.
Well said by the way
Fleet Admiral Robert Leece
USS Silverburn NX-150996-B
Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit [T5-U]
Comments
free market, isn't that what americans like so much?
I'm a Socialist.
Irony is that all "free" markets are not really free - like the American stock exchanges - heavily manipulated by the Federal Reserve - don't be fooled by 'federal" its a private bank setting American interest rates and printing money - it's not the US Tresuray - it's a banking syndicate. All those paper money US dollars are the property of this private bank - NOT the gov;t of the United states.
I want to agree with you, but the way the vehicles were realized as rigid non customizable transform devices with only gem slots for variety really felt more like STO ships than anything like a super hero vehicle. Also thevehicles they choose just do not work at all, only the Birdjets kinda fit, the other stuff is really shoehorned in. You'd think they would be customizable with lots of monetization options, but instead they went with the classic lockbox...
I played PnP Champs, believe me I wanted real super vehicles but what we got was not that. To me it just felt too much like an attempt to find the low cost money printing machine. A silver bullet, a license to print money, etc. TO be what ships are in STO. I don't think it worked at all. I know I haven't been back other than to do the Lemurian invasion map on my main... once.
I hope STO get's better ...
The exchange rate can't possibly, unless it goes to an absurd level in either direction, cost Cryptic money, since every point of zen that's used in-game is either bought by a player or earned from those silly surveys. That's why it's an exchange. If it was an NPC, someone actually COULD buy an Odyssey pack and have no one pay for it.
Players who sell Dil for Zen are, well, polite leechers.
I'll clarify that statement.
In CO, I've seen countless times some Free2Player complaining that it's not fair that Paying Subscribers get this and get that and that they should get this whatever it is for free.
After about the 20th time, I lost sympathy for these players.
In essence, the Dil Exchange handed Free2Players a way to earn Zen without actually paying for it.
So, they gain all the benefits of a paid sub with no money down.
And, like the case I cited above, they are basically out to gain a benefit no matter who they inconvience.
A low exchange rate benefits them greatly, since it means they get maximum benefit from exploiting customers who actually pay to support to STO, to be blunt.
Now, I don't object to paying someone for their hard work, but paying less then the market rate is cheating your clients.
Imagine if I went to a asseyor's office and said, here's a rich gold mine and they say to me, sorry, we're going to pay you 1/3rd of it's value because it costs us less.
Same priniciple applies here!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Nope it doesn't. You are comparing apples to oranges. The Dilithium exchange is a currency exchange. There is no "market" rate as these fluctuate even on an hourly basis let alone daily.
The Zen on the exchange was bought with real money or is sold by people who have the stipend. Therefore the company has been paid for it. It is not losing any money in relation to the exchange. An amount of Zen comes from the "free" Zen surveys, which the companies runing them pay PW for the ability to advertise them on the free Zen system.
The same could be said on those selling Zen for dilithium. You could call the leachers to, if we wanted to go to your extreme after all they could get all that dilithium themselves if they wanted to work for it just like those buying the Zen off the exchange could buy it for cash.
Thse who think the price is too low will just hold onto their Zen until the price rises. As more and more people do this then the amount of Zen available drops and it price will eventuially rise. If it rises too high for those buying then they will hold onto their dilithium until the price of Zen drops meaning the value of the dilitium has increased. Swings and roundabouts.
Leechers are people who join missions and let others do all the work but still get the rewards in the end. People who sell dilithium are selling a commodity and are paid for it.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Mate I'm a F2P player, and yes I do make zen from dill. Don't blame me sunshine for a system created by, and supported by Perfect World and Cryptic.
Also for your info for every ship or costume set Ive purchased converting Zen from Dill I've bought another from real world cash.
By playing the game legitimately, by earning my dill doing missions and assignments then putting the dill back into the game either buying dill products or purchasing zen I'm helping the economy putting money into the game.
Don't rail at me or people like me, rail at cryptic/ PW for having this system in the first place. I'm saving up my D4Z for the Scimitar pack, I'm about 1/3rd of the way through and I'll be there in about a month and I will purchase it gladly knowing I did it within the system provided.
Don't like it then lobby PW to change it.
When the time comes for me to convert my Dilly may the economy crash down to 86 and i'll make a killing.
Why, dilitium exchange is a mini-game for me, like the exchange and the doff-system.
Buying selling & speculating.
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
Believe me, I see that complaint enough!
"Oh no, the number is going up, I'm not getting enough zen!"
Conversely, I rarely see the other side of the argument, which is, nobody is getting enough Dil for selling Zen.
And that statement is shortly followed by the value taking a nosedive back down to what they consider to be acceptible.
Which means that somebody is actively working to keep the value low.
That's one of the reasons I'm suspicious about the number value.
In the real world we call this stock market manipulation.
And that happens to be illegal, by the way.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
This is a game, with a completely closed system with an endless supply of Dil and Zen both of which are controlled by the company. The only control we have over it is whether or not people want to A: Buy Zen in the first place, and B: Mine/Earn Dilithium.
If no-one acquires Dilithium, there is less to sell, value of Zen goes up. If no-one buys Zen direct from the Cryptic/PWE then again, the value of Zen goes up. The reverse is also true, the more Dil or Zen available, the less value either one has. This is not manipulation as no-one can corner the market on either item, this is just normal, everyday supply and demand at work.
Sig by my better half.
So hire some lawyers and take Cryptic and all the F2P players to court.
See you in the dock.
if those 'polite leechers', as you call them, weren't here, there'd be no dilithium for you to buy on the exchange. You'd have to grind it yourself. If you don't want to grind, you have to put up with what the current value of it is.
Paying (and dil buying) customers finance those who grind dilithium. And those grinders give those 'investors' a shortcut. As dil is (supposed to be) an in game time equivalent.
Depending on the situation (dil abundance, dil sinks, Zen store offers, ...), those two groups have to agree on a relative price. Each naturally wants the opposite.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I'm sorry, but you have a distorted view of how the market works. Of course the players that want the rate to be low are doing it for 'selfish' reasons. And conversely, those that want it to be higher want it for equally 'selfish' reasons. Everyone buys and sells for 'selfish' reasons. If I need Zen to buy the ships in the store, of course I'm going to want the rate to be low. If I need dilithium to buy rep gear, of course I'm going to want the rate to be high. You can see people on both sides of this fence in this very thread. Some want the dil, and some want the Zen (You fall into the 'I want dilithium' side). If there are more players that want dil than players that want Zen, the price goes down. If there are more players that want Zen, the price goes up. If the price goes too low, the dil buyers simply stop buying as more and more of them are unwilling to buy at that price (Your example of not filling your fleet project). This, in turn, causes the price to rise again. If the price goes too high, the Zen buyers simply stop buying as more and more of them are unwilling to pay the higher price. This, in turn, causes the price to come back down. Ultimately, the exchange equilibrates at the price at which the two sides agree.
And this exchange rate changes depending on what is going on in the game. If all of a sudden, people need a lot of dilithium (like new Romulan character needing gear), there will be more players on the 'buy dilithium' side of the exchange, and the price will fall. If, on the other hand, Cryptic suddenly releases a extremely popular Zstore ship, it will swing the other way.
Again, the current exchange rate IS the market rate. It may be lower than what YOU are willing to pay, but the market is made up of more than just you. There are just more people who are willing to buy at a rate less than you are willing to.
Not really. Because a number of things determine something's 'Value'. And value is subject to change. Even in your example of a gold mine, the value changes. Have you looked at the price of gold? The price has fluctuated beween $1000 and $1900 (USD) per ounce over the last 2 years. In STO, the 'value' of dilithium changes over time. It becomes more valuable as more items become available for purchase. Think about your own characters. Wouldn't dilithium be more 'valuable' to your brand new toon? You'll need it to outfit him/her with the rep gear etc. But what about a fully outfitted toon that you've played for over a year that already has all the gear? For that toon, dilithium holds much less value. Or what if you were in a fleet that had a fully completed T5 starbase/embassy? Would dilithium hold as much 'value' in your eyes compared to being in a fleet that was looking at doing some expensive upgrades?
What you are arguing in these posts is only looking through the lens of your own situation. You might want to try looking at things from the other perspective. You don't have to be happy about it, but at least then you can understand why the prices are the way that they are.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's willful ignorance. Tilarta and his/her type simply see themselves as the center of the universe. Whatever is good for them is good for everyone, they think, and therefore, whatever doesn't work in their favor is a flaw in the game itself.
So you'll stereotype all silver players on the actions of a few whiners on the forums?
How do you expect people to view you, if not as a whiny player on the forum?
It's a problem of perception. Just about everyone's is wrong sooner or later. Don't give them a complex about it lol. A lot of problems we have in the real world today stem from people forming a skewed interpretation of one idea or another and then attempting to apply that in a socially visible way. This tends to lead to some very unfortunate moments of reckoning that we should probably let people endure easily so they're more inclined to let them happen, and we can all start speaking the same language again... eventually
Silver player here and i have 861 zen up for sale at 1 Dilithium more than the lowest of 113. Hmmm not all silvers want Zen for low low prices and kinda makes the person you quoted to be very very misinformed and I would love to sell all that for 200 dilithium per. I grind dilithium, buy zen, sell zen. It doesnt matter how i got 1 or the other what matters is I exchange depending on my needs. Zen is real world money, but dilithium takes time to earn just like that real world money and is just as valuable to me.
As for the whole exchange i would love it if it fluctuated by 10 points or more every day, i could make a killing by buying and selling but sadly it is more long term investing and i need 2500 zen for a ship! meh i will have it next week anyway.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
But throwing out hostile posts when you have no real idea what to say, well, that says more about you then me.
By the way, my information doesn't come from the forums, I got it from just watching what people say ingame.
They have no idea I'm filing it in a mental database to use later.
This reason why I'm taking the Dil price drop so hard is the many versus few concept.
I don't want Dil for myself, it's to help my fleet.
Granted, we're a small fleet, but that's still a group.
If it wasn't for that one simple fact, I wouldn't care what the price of Dil was, since even at the low rate it is currently, that can sustain my individual requisition needs.
I hardly use Dil personally at all, whereas a Fleet has significantly higher demand on that material.
Whereas a C-point devaluer wants the C-points just to benefit themselves alone.
How does unlocking item X on one player benefit anyone but the person who unlocks it?
FYI I sell Master Keys for less then 2million!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
On the other hand, dilithium also serves for a number of char unlocks (reputation stores, dil store,...).
Also, why do you want to help your fleet? Is there not a want to get access to some nice goodies for yourself there?
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
This counters the dilithium exchange being a currency market how? So far you have compared apples with oranges twice with your analogies.
As to the fleet matter I take it you won't be availing yourself of the bonuses and better equipment that comes from levelled fleets? If you are going to use them then it is a case of false altruism. You are dong exactly what the people you accuse of being selfish are doing. Trying to get the best deal for you.
You do realise that the people who buy Zen with dilithium really can not devalue it. They are reliant on the sellers if the sellers think it is too cheap then they stop selling. As more and more do this the price rises. The people selling it at the current price have decided that is a reasonable price at which to sell it.
But in general, there's very few items I actually need.
We've already unlocked the stuff I use, so there's actually nothing I need from the fleet base at the moment.
So, I can claim whatever goodies I regularly use right now.
The other items I'm interested in require at least one category to go all the way to maxed out (Fleet Ships, Purple romulan boffs/doffs), so that isn't even up for consideration at the moment.
Ask me about that in 5 years or more......... :cool:
The only thing I'm really interested in getting at the moment is the Interfleet Shuttle, but well, that requires an injection of around 400000+60000 Dil, counting the shuttle upgrade itself.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Group or solo doesn't matter. Why? Because you are a MEMBER of your fleet. Wanting dilithium to help your fleet IS wanting it for yourself because you care about your fleet. You are part of a fleet family. You directly benefit from advancing your fleet. And it still puts you in the 'I want dilithium' camp rather than the 'I want Zen' camp. In fact, there are many others like you that want dilithium to advance their fleet. I am one of them. Most of my characters already have their gear, so why do I grind dilithium? To help my fleet. But because there are many like us, it drives the price on the exchange down.
You have it backwards. It is the Zen buyer that RAISES the price on the exchange. If no one wanted to buy Zen with dilithium, the price on the exchange would be at the floor of 25. In fact, there wouldn't be an exchange at all since there would be no one willing to trade their dilithium for Zen. Be glad that there are those wanting to buy Zen with dilithium. You should be hoping that there are more of them. If there were, prices would be a lot higher right now.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Greed is eternal.
Teklion out.
Cry me a river of tears and you will get not one ounce of sympathy from me or anyone that worked in the game to get dilithium to buy something. They worked a whole lot harder than you for that zen so have a little respect and put things in perspective when spitting out your greed.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Anyone else recall the early days of the exchange when it was like 300 dilithium to 1 zen?
USS Silverburn NX-150996-B
Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit [T5-U]
Well said by the way
USS Silverburn NX-150996-B
Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit [T5-U]