If I recall correctly it also only started scaling at that 50% mark, making it rather weak. If it keeps it's current scaling it is far, far more usable.
Plus content was nerfed and better gear has become more available. The game has changed from when removing the gating on GDF, so yes it being usable with gating has certainly changed.
You're right, GDF is now less flexible. It's also more powerful.
Unless it's worth it. Let's see if it is. (Still 70% on my patch ATM hooray slow patching.)
More powerful, in your dreams.
Enemies in the game either kill you way too fast to take advantage of it, or they cant take you downb to 50% health to begin with unless you just sit there.
This is the worst change ever in this game.
I would rather have kept the EPTX powers at 20 uptime and 30 sec recharge.
This ability is now totally useless end game.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Seeing as most sci/eng captain powers are more or less useless in one or other context(PvP/PvE) I hardly understand cries or tacts. You are alread way above the roof with your abilities and the fact that game is made almost exclusively for you. And stupidly easy ifyou are flying tacscort. Little thinking and not just mashingspace wont harm you.
And Cryptic - if they really want the power activable whenever they want. Do it so. Just keep the "50%" gateing for bonuses. Activate at 51% and you gain nothing. If during activation time you fall below 50% - you start gaining bonuses.
Enemies in the game either kill you way too fast to take advantage of it, or they cant take you downb to 50% health to begin with unless you just sit there.
This ability is now totally useless end game.
If enemies take you down before you can use it or cannot take you down to use it then that is a problem with encounter design, not power design.
I have had these same experiences. I have also had plenty where I was able to use GDF sub-50% and gain quite a lot of benefit from it without dying. Now I'll get even more benefit from it when I use it as such. Hence it is a buff.
Yes it is a nerf if you used it above that percentage. A nerf which balances the power.
Take away the gating and now you have an ability that gives you a decent damage increase and an incredible resistance increase (15/30%) whenever you want. That's too powerful.
GDF being useless is subjective. I can see it having plenty of use.
I suppose it will be pretty harsh on all these people who apparently fly with a 'don't get shot or die instantly' philosophy.
Speaking as someone who can actually survive STFs in escorts and frequently find myself fighting under 50% for extended periods, I don't really care. Removing GDF from the 100% health, alpha strike super-stack of damage buffs is a good move as far as I'm concerned.
If I recall correctly it also only started scaling at that 50% mark, making it rather weak. If it keeps it's current scaling it is far, far more usable.
I really want to know what you're smoking that makes you think limiting how an ability can be used somehow increases said ability's usability.
I really want to know what you're smoking that makes you think limiting how an ability can be used somehow increases said ability's usability.
It's a comparison, it is far more usable now while limited than it was while limited.
I waited to use GDF until I was around or below 50% to get the most out of it. Now I still have to wait but the power of GDF has gone up, in addition to it increasing my defenses making it far more likely that I'm going to still be alive to use it.
Before it just increased damage and the qualification that you couldn't use it because you would die was true. Now with the resistance buff that needs to be examined further.
The strength of a power is entirely irrelevant if said power is not able to be used.
Or if it's use would be too powerful/not intended. I remember anecdotes about players using ramming speed to plow through other players around ESD. Got blown up by a bunch of tricobalt mines above DS9 back in the day before they were fixed.
Cycle Ramming Speed, Evasive Maneuvers and EPtE and why would you ever need to use Full Impulse? Especially now that EPtE's gotten a buff.
Same thing as it did before. You keep the buff at the intensity it had when you used it, for the full duration of the buff. Being at sub 50% is only required for activating it.
I really want to know what you're smoking that makes you think limiting how an ability can be used somehow increases said ability's usability.
Basically that poster is happy that it fits his exact definition of how he will use it, and doesn't actually care that it negatively affects anyone else.
He willfully oblivious to the obvious for those reasons. He's quite happy with it, because in the tiny sandbox he plays in, it will not affect his playstyle.
For players like myself,
In PvP it will be a random buff that either earns me a subnuc.
He seems to think it's quite easy to use, and should be a non-issue.
I challenge him to get 4 friends and entertain that notion in a 5v5. Let's see just how much GDF he can make use of then.
Or if it's use would be too powerful/not intended. I remember anecdotes about players using ramming speed to plow through other players around ESD. Got blown up by a bunch of tricobalt mines above DS9 back in the day before they were fixed.
Cycle Ramming Speed, Evasive Maneuvers and EPtE and why would you ever need to use Full Impulse? Especially now that EPtE's gotten a buff.
Once again, completely ignoring the issue at hand. It doesn't matter how powerful an ability is if you cannot use said ability.
Secondly, bringing up examples of griefing using improperly coded abilities has absolutely zero to do with the functionality changes that GDF has gone through.
Basically that poster is happy that it fits his exact definition of how he will use it, and doesn't actually care that it negatively affects anyone else.
He willfully oblivious to the obvious for those reasons. He's quite happy with it, because in the tiny sandbox he plays in, it will not affect his playstyle.
For players like myself,
In PvP it will be a random buff that either earns me a subnuc.
He seems to think it's quite easy to use, and should be a non-issue.
I challenge him to get 4 friends and entertain that notion in a 5v5. Let's see just how much GDF he can make use of then.
Above and beyond PvP concerns, competent players with even halfway decent builds are effectively never going to be in a position to even activate it in the PvE realm.
Above and beyond PvP concerns, competent players with even halfway decent builds are effectively never going to be in a position to even activate it in the PvE realm.
but scis can activate photonic fleet once or twice in pve.
btw I dont think you are here to decide who is competent and who is not.They blocked a power from a class ,they said nothing about the BS change and they gave no way to change class from tac to other class which still has all powers ,so yes this is a bug .
It could have been worse... they could have nerfed tactical boff skills because science captains were using their captain skills to increase their damage beyond what is sane instead of nerfing the interaction between scis and those tac skills...
Sorry, no sympathy here.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Above and beyond PvP concerns, competent players with even halfway decent builds are effectively never going to be in a position to even activate it in the PvE realm.
Yeah. Only way my health goes down beyond 50% if I go out for a cup of water, or get a critical invisibel death torpedo shot and survive it.
Bad change ! Revert it back!
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
It could have been worse... they could have nerfed tactical boff skills because science captains were using their captain skills to increase their damage beyond what is sane instead of nerfing the interaction between scis and those tac skills...
Sorry, no sympathy here.
This might come as a shock, but Sci captains are the most powerful captains in PvP.
Good premade teams bring 3 of them.
I know it's tough to reconcile with, but Tactical captains are actually designed to do damage!
On top of that, Sci captains now get a trait to boost all of those skills...
Sorry if the tiny pve sandbox doesn't let your Sci captain do anything useful, come join us in PvP.
Basically that poster is happy that it fits his exact definition of how he will use it, and doesn't actually care that it negatively affects anyone else.
I do care that it negatively affects those who have used it freely. I agree that it is a nerf in that case.
My argument is that with the resistance buff to GDF a nerf is necessary and that with the 50% gate it is still a buff. It's not popular and I would prefer a different nerf but this is what we have to work with.
He willfully oblivious to the obvious for those reasons. He's quite happy with it, because in the tiny sandbox he plays in, it will not affect his playstyle.
I'm actually not happy with it. It could use more work and could be even better. So could most of this game.
What I'm even less happy about is that the arguments against the 50% gate boil down to several points:
'I can't use it whenever I want anymore.'
Yes because a damage and resistance boost is very powerful on top of the other abilities Tactical Captains have and can use at will.
'Why can I only use it below 50%?'
Because that was how the ability originally was and that may have influenced what nerf they would apply to GDF.
'I don't like it/it's not fun' etc.
Fun is subjective and changes from person to person.
'I don't get much use out of it because I either die/it gets removed by Subnucleonic Beam'
This claim needs more evidence.
I challenge him to get 4 friends and entertain that notion in a 5v5. Let's see just how much GDF he can make use of then.
You don't have to because I am not a PvPer nor do I have a team and you'd probably stomp me flat, GDF or no GDF.
I'd be willing to go pug some matches however to see how it handles in that environment.
If an ability cannot be used, how the hell does that increase it's ability to be used?
Used: employed for a purpose, utilized.
Utilized: to make practical or worthwhile use of.
You are correct that it has less usability, however the resistance buff means that when you are able to use GDF, you should get more use out of it than before.
Once again, completely ignoring the issue at hand. It doesn't matter how powerful an ability is if you cannot use said ability.
Being unable to use an ability in this game means several things:
[LIST=4]
[*]The ability is on Cooldown either system or internal, I have to wait for that to expire.
[*]I have no valid targets for this ability. Grant Diplomatic Immunity for example.
[*]I do not meet the requirements to use this ability. IE I do not have the set pieces or it requires a target in a 90 degree arc in front of me or it requires me to be below 50% health.
[*]Related to 3: I was unable to press the button while I had the requirements to use the ability.
[/LIST]
The first three refer to the use of the ability in question. What it's intended to do and how well it is intended to do that while being balanced against other methods of achieving the same goal. The power of the ability definitely matters.
'Why does AP:A have a 2 minute cooldown? Why does Grant Diplomatic Immunity require a Friendly Target? Why do I have to have 3 piece Jem'hadar in order to use Antiproton sweep?'
The fourth is an issue that is player-specific, be it lag, individual skill or external interference. (Cat on Keyboard)
Secondly, bringing up examples of griefing using improperly coded abilities has absolutely zero to do with the functionality changes that GDF has gone through.
Somewhat tangential, however it could be that these abilities were not coded improperly but had design oversights.
It makes sense that you can ram your friends as well as your foes. It makes sense that mines don't care about friend or foe once deployed. These issues were fixed and abilities redesigned because those effects were not conductive to the game.
If GDF as it is now has design oversight, then lets expose that with evidence.
Above and beyond PvP concerns, competent players with even halfway decent builds are effectively never going to be in a position to even activate it in the PvE realm.
This is a generalization. I've seen plenty of players that I would describe as competent flying builds I would classify as decent in a position to activate GDF while under 50% health. Some have, some haven't. Some died soon after, some survived for the full minute.
Used: employed for a purpose, utilized.
Utilized: to make practical or worthwhile use of.
You are correct that it has less usability, however the resistance buff means that when you are able to use GDF, you should get more use out of it than before.
You still don't get it. GDF is not a defensive ability. Trying to turn it into one, and then using that change to support locking away it away in such a way that it will never be used again is one of the most idiotic things I've seen in quite a long time.
And that includes your attempts to justify both the change, and the gating.
Not to mention your little attempt at dictionary tango completely ignores the first two thirds of the definition of Useability. But hey, points for trying to weasel out of the hole you dug for yourself by arguing that limiting a player's use of GDF actually increases their use of GDF.
Being unable to use an ability in this game means several things:
[LIST=4]
[*]The ability is on Cooldown either system or internal, I have to wait for that to expire.
[*]I have no valid targets for this ability. Grant Diplomatic Immunity for example.
[*]I do not meet the requirements to use this ability. IE I do not have the set pieces or it requires a target in a 90 degree arc in front of me or it requires me to be below 50% health.
[*]Related to 3: I was unable to press the button while I had the requirements to use the ability.
[/LIST]
The first three refer to the use of the ability in question. What it's intended to do and how well it is intended to do that while being balanced against other methods of achieving the same goal. The power of the ability definitely matters.
'Why does AP:A have a 2 minute cooldown? Why does Grant Diplomatic Immunity require a Friendly Target? Why do I have to have 3 piece Jem'hadar in order to use Antiproton sweep?'
The fourth is an issue that is player-specific, be it lag, individual skill or external interference. (Cat on Keyboard)
Was there a point buried in there, or are you simply trying to hide the fact that you have no rational answer for the fact that you're basing your entire argument (that GDFs changes more than outweigh the restrictions placed on its use) on a massive fallacy (that the restrictions placed allow GDF to be used in a way that outweigh said restrictions).
Somewhat tangential, however it could be that these abilities were not coded improperly but had design oversights.
It makes sense that you can ram your friends as well as your foes. It makes sense that mines don't care about friend or foe once deployed. These issues were fixed and abilities redesigned because those effects were not conductive to the game.
So now your argument is that players being able to choose when and how they deploy their abilities is detrimental to gameplay?
This is a generalization. I've seen plenty of players that I would describe as competent flying builds I would classify as decent in a position to activate GDF while under 50% health. Some have, some haven't. Some died soon after, some survived for the full minute.
Bull****. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been knocked down to less than 50% in the time I've played STO (and not killed outright). Of all of those, only once was I in a situation that I actually survived.
To put that into context, I play almost exclusively offensive minded warships with minimal defense capability.
If you know what you're doing, you're invincible to 95% of STOs content. The other 5% instagibs you.
Sure, lets do it in the Star Trek Universe, obviously.
Who was routinely called the Miracle Worker? Montgomery Scott. What could he do? Get systems back up and running in less time then he quoted himself and generally get a ship back into tip-top shape in less time then an entire Engineering Team.
What does the Miracle Worker skill do? Large Hull and Shield Heal.
Okay, Photonic Fleet. What does Photonic refer to in the Star Trek Universe? Holograms. Photonic Lifeforms are Holographic to us.
What would a Photonic Fleet be...oh, a Fleet of Photonic creations, aka Holograms.
What does Photonic Fleet do? Create a small group of Holographic Ships.
Yeah, got something else to say?
Watch "Relics" from TNG. Scott frequently told the Captain a longer time estimate so that when he completed earlier it seemed miraculous.
A small group of Holographic ships that should be relatively incapable of doing any damage and certainly should not be able to fire off Matter/Antimatter torpedoes.
As for this Nerf... Eh... Well I agree with those Tactical Captains in Escorts that they will not be able to make much use of this. Likewise, it will not do Science Ships any good because they will also still pop long before this becomes useful.
Basically in Escorts/Sci if you get to 50% Hull you are probably going to die before any ability can save you outside of Miracle Worker.
However, I also get to laugh at all these TactScort folks even more now because my Tactical Captains pilot Warships and Cruisers where they can freely use this ability. I have always said TactScorts were too flimsy to be that useful and this is just going to reinforce the idea. The amusing part for my ships is trying to KEEP my hull that damaged to get use out of the ability.
Ok, to all those tac's out there crying about this "nerf", and ******** about the other two classes skilss, how about this? MaKe Photonic Fleet 3x as powerful, to make up for the fact of it's limited usefulness, if you want that gated to 50% health, which makes no sense, but....., and Miracle worker should provide a 99% damage resistance, immunity to all debuffs, as well as the large hull/shield regen. If you don't like those suggestions, then I say, remove ALL damage resistance from GDF, as well as only giving around a 5% damage bonus, as that skill is way overpowered, on top of the AP skills, and other damage boosting skills tacs get, not too mention, their skills getting around the 125 power limit on weapons, whereas Sci and engineers have their primary power needs totally capped, and nothing is able to enhance these beyond those limits.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Ok, to all those tac's out there crying about this "nerf", and ******** about the other two classes skilss, how about this? MaKe Photonic Fleet 3x as powerful, to make up for the fact of it's limited usefulness, if you want that gated to 50% health, which makes no sense, but....., and Miracle worker should provide a 99% damage resistance, immunity to all debuffs, as well as the large hull/shield regen. If you don't like those suggestions, then I say, remove ALL damage resistance from GDF, as well as only giving around a 5% damage bonus, as that skill is way overpowered, on top of the AP skills, and other damage boosting skills tacs get, not too mention, their skills getting around the 125 power limit on weapons, whereas Sci and engineers have their primary power needs totally capped, and nothing is able to enhance these beyond those limits.
But hey, points for trying to weasel out of the hole you dug for yourself by arguing that limiting a player's use of GDF actually increases their use of GDF.
Again, you are correct that players cannot use GDF as much as they could.
My point that it is more useful stands though.
Was there a point buried in there, or are you simply trying to hide the fact that you have no rational answer for the fact that you're basing your entire argument (that GDFs changes more than outweigh the restrictions placed on its use) on a massive fallacy (that the restrictions placed allow GDF to be used in a way that outweigh said restrictions).
The point is that Abilities cannot be used freely and that every ability in the game follows the first three rules that determine their usability and this is taken into account in their design.
1. Every ability has a CD.
2. In addition, some abilities can only be used on certain targets.
3. Some abilities have additional requirements for use along with the first two.
4. is strictly in the realm of the player and while it may influence an abilities design, it does not have as much weight as the first three.
Again, my argument is that GDF with a Resistance buff needed a nerf and that the benefits it brings outweigh the restriction that you have to wait for it at 50%.
Not that the restrictions help the ability. A nerf is a nerf, but some nerfs are warranted.
So now your argument is that players being able to choose when and how they deploy their abilities is detrimental to gameplay?
Yes. In the case of those abilities, they were changed to prevent Griefing.
In the case of this change, it was to prevent using GDF whenever you wish and being able to stack it's damage and resistance bonuses, which may be considered overpowered.
If you know what you're doing, you're invincible to 95% of STOs content. The other 5% instagibs you.
Our experiences differ, and these differing experiences are shared by others. They are equally valid. Not everyone is as skillful as you claim to be and not everyone can solo/carry an ESTF. The ability has to accommodate both of our experiences.
Yes. In the case of those abilities, they were changed to prevent Griefing.
In the case of this change, it was to prevent using GDF whenever you wish and being able to stack it's damage and resistance bonuses, which may be considered overpowered.
I dont remember anyone asking for resistence bonuses for tacs.
even their stupid tutorial says : tacs = dps class ,engineers = tanks ,sci = debuffers ...the probably forgot to move GDF to engineers or some other stupid sheet .
as for omg tacs do damage....well ,tacs= dps class ...wtf people expect that class to do? ...guess its tanking with some almost useless resistence .
Why? Now that GDF provides a Resistance Boost, which increases your survivability it can certainly be regarded as a defensive ability.
It's a change that was neither needed, nor asked for. GDF, like just about every other Tactical Captain ability is focused on offensive boosting. That makes it, surprise, an offensive ability.
The point is that Abilities cannot be used freely and that every ability in the game follows the first three rules that determine their usability and this is taken into account in their design.
1. Every ability has a CD.
2. In addition, some abilities can only be used on certain targets.
3. Some abilities have additional requirements for use along with the first two.
4. is strictly in the realm of the player and while it may influence an abilities design, it does not have as much weight as the first three.
I see, you're down to claiming that an ability having a cooldown is identical to an ability being functionaly prevented from activating. Good to know you've got no logical leg to stand on yet again.
Again, my argument is that GDF with a Resistance buff needed a nerf and that the benefits it brings outweigh the restriction that you have to wait for it at 50%.
Not that the restrictions help the ability. A nerf is a nerf, but some nerfs are warranted.
You realize your argument is "well, we buffed the ability, but now it's too good so we have to nerf it now, and we're going to nerf it to a point where it's drastically worse than it was before we buffed it" right? Kindly explain to me how that makes any kind of logical sense when the unbuffed version was doing just fine.
Yes. In the case of those abilities, they were changed to prevent Griefing.
In the case of this change, it was to prevent using GDF whenever you wish and being able to stack it's damage and resistance bonuses, which may be considered overpowered.
I see, players being able to use their self-targeting powers at their own discretion is now griefing. I guess every single player in-game who uses a self-targeted power is a griefer. You'd best start writing up some CS tickets about all those people abusing all the other players.
Our experiences differ, and these differing experiences are shared by others. They are equally valid. Not everyone is as skillful as you claim to be and not everyone can solo/carry an ESTF. The ability has to accommodate both of our experiences.
So you're now arguing that people with more than three firing neurons should be restricted because they're too smart to be allowed to use an ability?
Bottom line: GDF is effectively in the realm of abilities that you yourself have admitted are too nice to be used (Ramming Speed, Abandon Ship). Are you now arguing that Ramming Speed and Abandon Ship are so devastatingly powerful that they need to be gated behind the same draconian restrictions?
Several of you are confusing two simple facts:
1. If it needs a nerf, it needs a nerf.
2. Tacs don't need a restriction on Captain powers unless all the classes have restrictions on their Captain powers as well.
To the first point, if we don't want it stacking, then Cryptic should stop it from stacking. Plain and simple.
To the second, it is completely unfair for this power to have an activation point without the other classes having restrictions as well. This could be said for photonic fleet, sensor scan, miricle worker, or nadion inversion. Not spreading this nerf around and only making one class eat it is precedence they are setting.
What part of "an ability's power means jack **** if you can't use it" do you not comprehend?
I comprehend it quite clearly.
In the case of GDF, if you can't use it because you don't go below 50% health and you succeed at what you're doing, then it had nothing to do with your success.
If you can't use it because you took more than 50% of your health in damage before you could react to use it then it had nothing to do with your death.
I see, you're down to claiming that an ability having a cooldown is identical to an ability being functionaly prevented from activating. Good to know you've got no logical leg to stand on yet again.
They both achieve the same thing, they prevent you from activating the ability whenever you want. The only difference is when they are in effect.
You realize your argument is "well, we buffed the ability, but now it's too good so we have to nerf it now, and we're going to nerf it to a point where it's drastically worse than it was before we buffed it" right? Kindly explain to me how that makes any kind of logical sense when the unbuffed version was doing just fine.
Buffing and Nerfing an ability is part of redesigning it, if it gains increased functionality then it is logical to increase the restrictions on it. We no longer have the unbuffed version, though we could get it back.
So you're now arguing that people with more than three firing neurons should be restricted because they're too smart to be allowed to use an ability?
Using an ability 'smartly' and 'abusing' an ability can be similar. Some players will abuse systems to get the most advantage out of them. This is a statistical fact.
Bottom line: GDF is effectively in the realm of abilities that you yourself have admitted are too nice to be used (Ramming Speed, Abandon Ship). Are you now arguing that Ramming Speed and Abandon Ship are so devastatingly powerful that they need to be gated behind the same draconian restrictions?
To the first point, if we don't want it stacking, then Cryptic should stop it from stacking. Plain and simple.
STO stops you from stacking abilities by enforcing a Shared Cooldown between them. No other captain abilities have this shared cooldown so doing this to GDF and another Tac Captain ability would still be an 'unfair' difference between the captains.
To the second, it is completely unfair for this power to have an activation point without the other classes having restrictions as well. Not spreading this nerf around and only making one class eat it is precedence they are setting.
All abilities have restrictions as I pointed out in my list. In the case of Captain Level Captain powers, Miracle Worker can be wasted since it only provides an immediate benefit and Photonic Fleet can be destroyed by any ship.
GDF as a self buff cannot be assumed to be 'wasted' since it lasts for a full minute and it can only be removed by one ability. (SNB)
It does not set precedence since this is not a new restriction to the ability in question.
For those who complain about the "gating" of the power:
For whatever reason that is beyond the player's control, at least one entire science power (the aforementioned SNB) is, as mentioned, completely useless in PvE. Therefore, one can argue that Science captains trade an entire PvE captain power slot for the ability to use Photonic Fleet in PvE.
As it seems the design team isn't about to change PvE from "hyper gear, no skills" to "above average gear, full slate of skills", this "trade" of the SNB slot (which, IIRC, is the Commander skill) for "ungated PvE access" to Photonic Fleet is, shall we say, appropriate.
On that note, what would the whining tacticals say to having, IIRC, FoMM restricted to oblivion for PvE use so they could have permanent access to GDF?
(and if you're wondering, the fact that the useful, read healing, engineering captain skills are self-only would be, in my mind, the counter-argument to the fact that miracle worker is "ungated"...)
On that note, I would be on the side of tacticals to return GDF to "use at will", if the power scaled logrithmically (so that it's no more than 10% bonus under half health, but scales quickly when you start taking a few hits). And adjusts the buff strength based on hull strength at time of shot (so shooting while playing the "sliver of life" game, lots of pain. Popping GDF at 15% buff then healing in an attempt to abuse that 15% buff, well, the scaling would drop it down to 1% quick...). Or, having GDF, FoMM and APA on a shared cooldown, but I'm not too keen on this because of the "nasty precedent" of having captain's abilities on shared cooldowns...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Comments
More powerful, in your dreams.
Enemies in the game either kill you way too fast to take advantage of it, or they cant take you downb to 50% health to begin with unless you just sit there.
This is the worst change ever in this game.
I would rather have kept the EPTX powers at 20 uptime and 30 sec recharge.
This ability is now totally useless end game.
And Cryptic - if they really want the power activable whenever they want. Do it so. Just keep the "50%" gateing for bonuses. Activate at 51% and you gain nothing. If during activation time you fall below 50% - you start gaining bonuses.
If enemies take you down before you can use it or cannot take you down to use it then that is a problem with encounter design, not power design.
I have had these same experiences. I have also had plenty where I was able to use GDF sub-50% and gain quite a lot of benefit from it without dying. Now I'll get even more benefit from it when I use it as such. Hence it is a buff.
Yes it is a nerf if you used it above that percentage. A nerf which balances the power.
Take away the gating and now you have an ability that gives you a decent damage increase and an incredible resistance increase (15/30%) whenever you want. That's too powerful.
GDF being useless is subjective. I can see it having plenty of use.
Speaking as someone who can actually survive STFs in escorts and frequently find myself fighting under 50% for extended periods, I don't really care. Removing GDF from the 100% health, alpha strike super-stack of damage buffs is a good move as far as I'm concerned.
This is not the fault of tactical captains or even the design of Sci / Engineer powers in PvE.
The problem is the design of PvE.
What point is there to SNB in PvE if no NPCs even really use buffs?
That's a PvE design issue, which is the starkest contrast considering that SNB is the best power in the game in PvP.
I really want to know what you're smoking that makes you think limiting how an ability can be used somehow increases said ability's usability.
The strength of a power is entirely irrelevant if said power is not able to be used.
Then refute my argument with evidence and logic. The stronger the better.
It's a comparison, it is far more usable now while limited than it was while limited.
I waited to use GDF until I was around or below 50% to get the most out of it. Now I still have to wait but the power of GDF has gone up, in addition to it increasing my defenses making it far more likely that I'm going to still be alive to use it.
Before it just increased damage and the qualification that you couldn't use it because you would die was true. Now with the resistance buff that needs to be examined further.
Or if it's use would be too powerful/not intended. I remember anecdotes about players using ramming speed to plow through other players around ESD. Got blown up by a bunch of tricobalt mines above DS9 back in the day before they were fixed.
Cycle Ramming Speed, Evasive Maneuvers and EPtE and why would you ever need to use Full Impulse? Especially now that EPtE's gotten a buff.
Basically that poster is happy that it fits his exact definition of how he will use it, and doesn't actually care that it negatively affects anyone else.
He willfully oblivious to the obvious for those reasons. He's quite happy with it, because in the tiny sandbox he plays in, it will not affect his playstyle.
For players like myself,
In PvP it will be a random buff that either earns me a subnuc.
He seems to think it's quite easy to use, and should be a non-issue.
I challenge him to get 4 friends and entertain that notion in a 5v5. Let's see just how much GDF he can make use of then.
Usability: able to be used.
If an ability cannot be used, how the hell does that increase it's ability to be used?
Once again, completely ignoring the issue at hand. It doesn't matter how powerful an ability is if you cannot use said ability.
Secondly, bringing up examples of griefing using improperly coded abilities has absolutely zero to do with the functionality changes that GDF has gone through.
Above and beyond PvP concerns, competent players with even halfway decent builds are effectively never going to be in a position to even activate it in the PvE realm.
but scis can activate photonic fleet once or twice in pve.
btw I dont think you are here to decide who is competent and who is not.They blocked a power from a class ,they said nothing about the BS change and they gave no way to change class from tac to other class which still has all powers ,so yes this is a bug .
Sorry, no sympathy here.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Yeah. Only way my health goes down beyond 50% if I go out for a cup of water, or get a critical invisibel death torpedo shot and survive it.
Bad change ! Revert it back!
This might come as a shock, but Sci captains are the most powerful captains in PvP.
Good premade teams bring 3 of them.
I know it's tough to reconcile with, but Tactical captains are actually designed to do damage!
On top of that, Sci captains now get a trait to boost all of those skills...
Sorry if the tiny pve sandbox doesn't let your Sci captain do anything useful, come join us in PvP.
I do care that it negatively affects those who have used it freely. I agree that it is a nerf in that case.
My argument is that with the resistance buff to GDF a nerf is necessary and that with the 50% gate it is still a buff. It's not popular and I would prefer a different nerf but this is what we have to work with.
I'm actually not happy with it. It could use more work and could be even better. So could most of this game.
What I'm even less happy about is that the arguments against the 50% gate boil down to several points:
'I can't use it whenever I want anymore.'
Yes because a damage and resistance boost is very powerful on top of the other abilities Tactical Captains have and can use at will.
'Why can I only use it below 50%?'
Because that was how the ability originally was and that may have influenced what nerf they would apply to GDF.
'I don't like it/it's not fun' etc.
Fun is subjective and changes from person to person.
'I don't get much use out of it because I either die/it gets removed by Subnucleonic Beam'
This claim needs more evidence.
You don't have to because I am not a PvPer nor do I have a team and you'd probably stomp me flat, GDF or no GDF.
I'd be willing to go pug some matches however to see how it handles in that environment.
Used: employed for a purpose, utilized.
Utilized: to make practical or worthwhile use of.
You are correct that it has less usability, however the resistance buff means that when you are able to use GDF, you should get more use out of it than before.
We need more data on that.
Being unable to use an ability in this game means several things:
[LIST=4]
[*]The ability is on Cooldown either system or internal, I have to wait for that to expire.
[*]I have no valid targets for this ability. Grant Diplomatic Immunity for example.
[*]I do not meet the requirements to use this ability. IE I do not have the set pieces or it requires a target in a 90 degree arc in front of me or it requires me to be below 50% health.
[*]Related to 3: I was unable to press the button while I had the requirements to use the ability.
[/LIST]
The first three refer to the use of the ability in question. What it's intended to do and how well it is intended to do that while being balanced against other methods of achieving the same goal. The power of the ability definitely matters.
'Why does AP:A have a 2 minute cooldown? Why does Grant Diplomatic Immunity require a Friendly Target? Why do I have to have 3 piece Jem'hadar in order to use Antiproton sweep?'
The fourth is an issue that is player-specific, be it lag, individual skill or external interference. (Cat on Keyboard)
Somewhat tangential, however it could be that these abilities were not coded improperly but had design oversights.
It makes sense that you can ram your friends as well as your foes. It makes sense that mines don't care about friend or foe once deployed. These issues were fixed and abilities redesigned because those effects were not conductive to the game.
If GDF as it is now has design oversight, then lets expose that with evidence.
This is a generalization. I've seen plenty of players that I would describe as competent flying builds I would classify as decent in a position to activate GDF while under 50% health. Some have, some haven't. Some died soon after, some survived for the full minute.
You still don't get it. GDF is not a defensive ability. Trying to turn it into one, and then using that change to support locking away it away in such a way that it will never be used again is one of the most idiotic things I've seen in quite a long time.
And that includes your attempts to justify both the change, and the gating.
Not to mention your little attempt at dictionary tango completely ignores the first two thirds of the definition of Useability. But hey, points for trying to weasel out of the hole you dug for yourself by arguing that limiting a player's use of GDF actually increases their use of GDF.
Was there a point buried in there, or are you simply trying to hide the fact that you have no rational answer for the fact that you're basing your entire argument (that GDFs changes more than outweigh the restrictions placed on its use) on a massive fallacy (that the restrictions placed allow GDF to be used in a way that outweigh said restrictions).
So now your argument is that players being able to choose when and how they deploy their abilities is detrimental to gameplay?
Bull****. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been knocked down to less than 50% in the time I've played STO (and not killed outright). Of all of those, only once was I in a situation that I actually survived.
To put that into context, I play almost exclusively offensive minded warships with minimal defense capability.
If you know what you're doing, you're invincible to 95% of STOs content. The other 5% instagibs you.
Watch "Relics" from TNG. Scott frequently told the Captain a longer time estimate so that when he completed earlier it seemed miraculous.
A small group of Holographic ships that should be relatively incapable of doing any damage and certainly should not be able to fire off Matter/Antimatter torpedoes.
As for this Nerf... Eh... Well I agree with those Tactical Captains in Escorts that they will not be able to make much use of this. Likewise, it will not do Science Ships any good because they will also still pop long before this becomes useful.
Basically in Escorts/Sci if you get to 50% Hull you are probably going to die before any ability can save you outside of Miracle Worker.
However, I also get to laugh at all these TactScort folks even more now because my Tactical Captains pilot Warships and Cruisers where they can freely use this ability. I have always said TactScorts were too flimsy to be that useful and this is just going to reinforce the idea. The amusing part for my ships is trying to KEEP my hull that damaged to get use out of the ability.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
talking about QQ mr PvE hero :rolleyes:
Again, you are correct that players cannot use GDF as much as they could.
My point that it is more useful stands though.
The point is that Abilities cannot be used freely and that every ability in the game follows the first three rules that determine their usability and this is taken into account in their design.
1. Every ability has a CD.
2. In addition, some abilities can only be used on certain targets.
3. Some abilities have additional requirements for use along with the first two.
4. is strictly in the realm of the player and while it may influence an abilities design, it does not have as much weight as the first three.
Again, my argument is that GDF with a Resistance buff needed a nerf and that the benefits it brings outweigh the restriction that you have to wait for it at 50%.
Not that the restrictions help the ability. A nerf is a nerf, but some nerfs are warranted.
Yes. In the case of those abilities, they were changed to prevent Griefing.
In the case of this change, it was to prevent using GDF whenever you wish and being able to stack it's damage and resistance bonuses, which may be considered overpowered.
Our experiences differ, and these differing experiences are shared by others. They are equally valid. Not everyone is as skillful as you claim to be and not everyone can solo/carry an ESTF. The ability has to accommodate both of our experiences.
I dont remember anyone asking for resistence bonuses for tacs.
even their stupid tutorial says : tacs = dps class ,engineers = tanks ,sci = debuffers ...the probably forgot to move GDF to engineers or some other stupid sheet .
as for omg tacs do damage....well ,tacs= dps class ...wtf people expect that class to do? ...guess its tanking with some almost useless resistence .
It's a change that was neither needed, nor asked for. GDF, like just about every other Tactical Captain ability is focused on offensive boosting. That makes it, surprise, an offensive ability.
What part of "an ability's power means jack **** if you can't use it" do you not comprehend?
I see, you're down to claiming that an ability having a cooldown is identical to an ability being functionaly prevented from activating. Good to know you've got no logical leg to stand on yet again.
See response #2 above.
You realize your argument is "well, we buffed the ability, but now it's too good so we have to nerf it now, and we're going to nerf it to a point where it's drastically worse than it was before we buffed it" right? Kindly explain to me how that makes any kind of logical sense when the unbuffed version was doing just fine.
I see, players being able to use their self-targeting powers at their own discretion is now griefing. I guess every single player in-game who uses a self-targeted power is a griefer. You'd best start writing up some CS tickets about all those people abusing all the other players.
So you're now arguing that people with more than three firing neurons should be restricted because they're too smart to be allowed to use an ability?
Bottom line: GDF is effectively in the realm of abilities that you yourself have admitted are too nice to be used (Ramming Speed, Abandon Ship). Are you now arguing that Ramming Speed and Abandon Ship are so devastatingly powerful that they need to be gated behind the same draconian restrictions?
1. If it needs a nerf, it needs a nerf.
2. Tacs don't need a restriction on Captain powers unless all the classes have restrictions on their Captain powers as well.
To the first point, if we don't want it stacking, then Cryptic should stop it from stacking. Plain and simple.
To the second, it is completely unfair for this power to have an activation point without the other classes having restrictions as well. This could be said for photonic fleet, sensor scan, miricle worker, or nadion inversion. Not spreading this nerf around and only making one class eat it is precedence they are setting.
Amateurs....
I comprehend it quite clearly.
In the case of GDF, if you can't use it because you don't go below 50% health and you succeed at what you're doing, then it had nothing to do with your success.
If you can't use it because you took more than 50% of your health in damage before you could react to use it then it had nothing to do with your death.
They both achieve the same thing, they prevent you from activating the ability whenever you want. The only difference is when they are in effect.
Buffing and Nerfing an ability is part of redesigning it, if it gains increased functionality then it is logical to increase the restrictions on it. We no longer have the unbuffed version, though we could get it back.
This is incorrect, I specifically mentioned in the case of Ramming Speed and Mine laying that those were changed to prevent griefing.
Stacking abilities is giving yourself an advantage, an advantage that may be undesirable to the game at large.
Using an ability 'smartly' and 'abusing' an ability can be similar. Some players will abuse systems to get the most advantage out of them. This is a statistical fact.
No but I'd love it if they get buffed.
STO stops you from stacking abilities by enforcing a Shared Cooldown between them. No other captain abilities have this shared cooldown so doing this to GDF and another Tac Captain ability would still be an 'unfair' difference between the captains.
All abilities have restrictions as I pointed out in my list. In the case of Captain Level Captain powers, Miracle Worker can be wasted since it only provides an immediate benefit and Photonic Fleet can be destroyed by any ship.
GDF as a self buff cannot be assumed to be 'wasted' since it lasts for a full minute and it can only be removed by one ability. (SNB)
It does not set precedence since this is not a new restriction to the ability in question.
For whatever reason that is beyond the player's control, at least one entire science power (the aforementioned SNB) is, as mentioned, completely useless in PvE. Therefore, one can argue that Science captains trade an entire PvE captain power slot for the ability to use Photonic Fleet in PvE.
As it seems the design team isn't about to change PvE from "hyper gear, no skills" to "above average gear, full slate of skills", this "trade" of the SNB slot (which, IIRC, is the Commander skill) for "ungated PvE access" to Photonic Fleet is, shall we say, appropriate.
On that note, what would the whining tacticals say to having, IIRC, FoMM restricted to oblivion for PvE use so they could have permanent access to GDF?
(and if you're wondering, the fact that the useful, read healing, engineering captain skills are self-only would be, in my mind, the counter-argument to the fact that miracle worker is "ungated"...)
On that note, I would be on the side of tacticals to return GDF to "use at will", if the power scaled logrithmically (so that it's no more than 10% bonus under half health, but scales quickly when you start taking a few hits). And adjusts the buff strength based on hull strength at time of shot (so shooting while playing the "sliver of life" game, lots of pain. Popping GDF at 15% buff then healing in an attempt to abuse that 15% buff, well, the scaling would drop it down to 1% quick...). Or, having GDF, FoMM and APA on a shared cooldown, but I'm not too keen on this because of the "nasty precedent" of having captain's abilities on shared cooldowns...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
And this is all what I see when reading this thread.