The difference is the relevant value of the systems. So far, Feds have gotten (Useful systems only)
Subspace Jump
Bioneural warhead
Plasmonic Leech
Now, USEFUL ITEMS ONLY KDF has gotten:
AMS.
You forgot the point defense system, which is also a fun little toy when you have high-yield torps or fighters tracking you. Makes Danubes go away.
But beyond that, genuinely asking, what Fed consoles ARE there? Only things I can think of are the torp point defense (which is exclusive to a single ship period) and the wide-angle torpedo. Other than that theres what the MVAE console? The Regent's TRIBBLE console? The plasma manifold off the Oberth? I think the Klingons just got the best console the Feds have left.
Works for me... after all, how long did you actually use the Ionized Gas Sensor console anyway? At least those that purchased the Vandal got some decent use out of its console. Well, that and the Vandal costs more :P
Wait, did you actually buy the Exeter?
I did. I liked that it looked like a modern constitution.
The difference is the relevant value of the systems. So far, Feds have gotten (Useful systems only)
Subspace Jump
Bioneural warhead
Plasmonic Leech
Isometric Charge
Now, USEFUL ITEMS ONLY KDF has gotten:
AMS.
That's it.
That's the only USEFUL item KDF has gotten in these tech transfers.
everything else has been pretty much zilch for useful-as in "Things not even FEDERATION players will use more than once before discarding".
It's a fundamental imbalance when the best equipment of one faction is 'traded' to the other in exchange for the worst, least useful, or least effective equivalent.
if this had been an "EVEN" trade, we'd have seen the wide-angle torpedoes on the table in exchange for any of the following:
Because that would've been a trade that would be balanced-something of equal value being traded.
Your argument basicaly says that the KDf had better cheeze to begin with.
The wide angle torp will probably end up on a KDF c store ship, probably as another torpedo type.
Also nadeon detonator is prety nasty on a b'rel.
And in general I dont use the universal consoled that came on many of my cstore ships. In fact as I think about it I dont use most of what came on my klingon ships either. Only one character even has leech installed.
And before you call the seeker torp useless remember this.
1) there is now an entire faction of battle cloakers that can ally with either KDF or FED.
2) Roms and KDF both have a ship with enhanced battle cloak.
3) The torpedo will also hit non cloaked ships so it isnt wasted in no one cloaks.
4) Leech isnt as great as some people make it out to be.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
You forgot the point defense system, which is also a fun little toy when you have high-yield torps or fighters tracking you. Makes Danubes go away.
But beyond that, genuinely asking, what Fed consoles ARE there? Only things I can think of are the torp point defense (which is exclusive to a single ship period) and the wide-angle torpedo. Other than that theres what the MVAE console? The Regent's TRIBBLE console? The plasma manifold off the Oberth? I think the Klingons just got the best console the Feds have left.
Another pragmatic solution I can think of to address the Klignons' concern is a buff to the emission-seeking torp. As it stands, it does a poor job of tracking cloaked targets and is way too slow. If the torp will now actively track and pursue any cloaked ship within 15Km of it and travels at a speed comparable to say, the Cluster Torp, then this console would be very useful. Hence, the Klignons can no longer complain that this console is useless.
As a follow up after reading this thread, I bought Plasmonic Leech immediately off the exchange for a small sum of EC last night. Didn't really have the chance to do some real testing until now due to STO server issues. This is the result of using merely one single Flow Capacitor MK XII Ultra-Rare (Plasma Infused) and a build spec for power drain :
Weapons Power : 125 / 55
Shields Power : 125 / 60
Engines Power : 125 / 60
Auxiliary Power : 130 / 25
Please note from the screenshot, the EPtS was not activated, otherwise, it would add +26.1 to Shields Power due to Electro-Plasma skill = 140, which was redundant given Shields Power is already at 125. Auxiliary power can exceed 125 due to the spec of a Warp Core that allows such design. Only 6 points go into Engines and Shields performance skills each and merely 2 points each to Weapons and Auxiliary performance skills.
The addition of Plasmonic Leech helps tremendously to attain such perfection. So once again, I have to thank all the Klignons who cried and attracted so much attention with this thread that now many of us, Starfleet officers, took notice and promptly incorporated it in our repertoire.
Last but not least, the numbers you see above isn't just some flashes that last only a few seconds, they have a total uptime of 80%, which is 24 seconds per every 30 seconds or 48 seconds per minute. With a power transfer rate at about 300%, my vessel can quickly switch to other power set ups during the very short CD and prepared to fire up again. It seems to me, Klignons will need to hide with their cloaks more than ever. :P
As for the talk about giving away wide-angle Quantum torpedo, the only fair trade I can see is Klignons giving Starfleet access to Aceton Assimilators in exchange. Otherwise, I don't foresee how the Klignons should access an advanced Starfleet technology without giving up one of their secrets.
Something is not right here. Did LoR break leech console?
That would be one of those "Ain't gonna happen" items. we're far more likely to see another nerf of the Plas Leech after some QQ from Fed players in FvF.
Don't be so certain. With cloaked ships becoming as common as rats on the streets, there is a pressing need for a more effective counter to cloaked ships. The Emission-Seeking torp was a noble idea that never got off the ground due to poor design some years ago. Following that, there was no pressure to review it as most Feds just gave up on using it so the Dev did nothing. If there is a time to review that console, it's now.
Besides, the Leech is only powerful in the hands of those who know how to use it. The base drain of Leech is merely 1 point per sec up to 8 ticks max. In principle, with 50% drain resist, the base drain is only a laughable 4 points, which most players would just shrug off as irrelevant. The screenshot you are looking at is from someone who boosts that base drain by almost 300% from careful spec planning in skills and traits and boff powers. There is also an opportunity cost for equipping this console as I had to give up on another very useful one in order to accommodate the Leech. It's definitely not without cost but you know that already.
What I find curious is while Leech was an exclusive Klignon tool, the Klignons such as yourself, never called for it to be nerfed and many said it was not OP, merely a "fair" console. Now that Starfleet also has access to it, it became the end of the world? So Klignons are finally admitting it was OP all along, hence the need to nerf? Talking about double standard...and the lack of honor. Case in point, I am in favor of the Human Leadership trait being nerfed, wholeheartly. As you can see in my boff set up, I use only two, it has been that way for a long time. I never approved those who abused the exploit with 5 human boff + the captain = 6 human leadership traits. Besides, my toon is a Betazoid, so my use of Leadership trait has been limited to only 2 from the boff, which unlike those who use 6 copies and virtually instantly heal their hulls. There are things that need to be fixed in this game but if something is only suddenly OP because the other faction now has it too, then it's hypocrisy pure and simple.
That's off the top of my head, with no real effort put into the search.
note that none of these have the potential for abuse that the Leech does when coupled with the advantages of Federation ships-that is, they wouldn't be BETTER on a KDF ship than a fed, but the Leech IS.
Impulse Cell and Nadeon Detonator were already in lockboxes. Transwarp Computer, I admit I thought it was limited to the T3 Excelsior, but I looked up and see I was incorrect. Wide-angle, yeah that seems fair somewhere, or maybe give the Klingons a wide-angle photon or something for local flavor (I like photons better anyways).
As for 'advantages of Federation ships,' I have to go 'huh?' though. Feds have more variety and fleet discounts definitely, no argument there. But superior ships? I just don't see it beyond a few percent advantage here, a few percent drawback there.
The Vesta is definitely a superior science ship, but against the rest the Varanus stacks up just fine. (And lets be honest, this is science we're talking about.) There's also the Voquv vs the Atrox, which stack pretty evenly and comes down to pet preference, though Feds do not have any frigates. Then there's the Karfi which is unlike anything Fed side. Cruisers, KDF battlecruiser knock the stuffing out of their Fed counterparts with comparable boff layouts, hulls, and shielding, but superior power distribution and maneuverability with no drawbacks.
Then there's escorts, where hulls shields and maneuverability are about the same, but Feds do have a lot more variety in layouts available. However, Klingons also get the BoP which has any layout you want and the only Federation 'counterpart' is the joke Aquarius. There IS the Kumari with its 5 forward weapons, but what it pays for those, every one of my fleetmates who bought the thing went back to what they were driving earlier, and they're much better escort pilots than I so I'll trust their judgement on that ship. The only real escort difference left then is the 5th tac console (which amounts to what 5% more damage?) versus cloaking devices. One allows a little more pressure damage but always works (though costs you a console somewhere else), the other is finicky but when it does work grants complete tactical initiative.
So science is close with Feds having 1 better ship. Carriers go to Klingons. Cruisers go to Klingons. Multipurpose ships go to Klingons. Escorts are close with the Feds having a slight edge that could be fixed with another release or two for better BOFF seating. And thats not even bringing up the extras in consoles or cloaks, which is another all-around KDF advantage, major or minor a bonus as they may be, but a separate discussion. So whats the 'superiority' that I'm missing, because I don't see it?
I think the KDF reaction to the Fed's getting the Leech is pretty clear. It's not on the basis of it being overpowered per se, it's a loss of distinctiveness for the KDF. It's the different acquisition price for the Feds (EC) than the KDF (Zen). It's a desirable console. Is it an I win button? No. But it's something that made the KDF different than the Fed's. Now, not so much.
And there doesn't seem to be much backlash for the emission seeking things being "given" to the KDF. Doesn't that sort of support the point of view that it's not "as good" as the Leech?
It's all marginal utility of the trade off, and the KDF see that as all going in a one way street toward the federation. Your mileage may vary.
Hull, shielding, power, weapons. To get the imbalance you're referencing, you have to be comparing T5 KDF to T4 Feds, esp. on the sci-ships, the Varanus is about equal to the "Free" fed-ship one tier lower in every respect except number of weapons hardpoints, the KDF BC's ARE nice, but they lack sci ship support, have inferior shielding, and thinner hulls, the Bird of Prey is multipurpose-and the easiest ship in the game to kill, Raptors suffer a major handicap in how their turn-pivot is mapped rendering 'book numbers' only a quarter of the story when comparing them to same-or-lower tier Fed vessels in the same class.
Cloak? takes a lot of practice and work to make it an asset, instead of a handicap-some fed players who've been under the misconception that it's a major asset that requires no skill (i.e. overpowered) are going to find out the hard way on their Romulans that it's actually pretty easy to get decloaked and killed by the other side, or brought down to nothing on your hull by simple, expedient things like minefields and warp plasma.
of course, this will be a much, much gentler lesson than if they rolled a KDF toon and spent more than a couple passes in PvP against feds who know what they're doing, because the rommie ships at least have decent hulls. One of the best measures of how good or bad a console is, is how many people in the originating faction use it on a regular basis.
The Emissions Seeker is almost never used by Feds, the Plasmonic Leech is used extensively by KDF players, esp. on vessels like the Bird of Prey-which is, I reiterate, the softest, easiest kill in the game, and comes on a ship that costs MORE than the Emissions seeker does.
The tech-transfer is unbalanced. THAT is the problem.
Vor'cha Retrofit T5 Assault Cruiser T5
Real close, same shields and boffs and consoles. Assault cruiser has 3k more hull and another device. Vor'cha has the cloak, momentum, and 43% better turning.
As for 'roll a Klingon,' lots of people have and have tried this stuff. I've got 3, have flown all types from Hegh'tas to Vo'quvs to my flagship Fleet Tor'kaht, and they're a hell of a lot easier to use and much more lethal than anything I have Fed side. Like 95% of the game I don't PVP, in my case because I don't care, I don't like aggressive people, and I'd much rather just build stuff. Also means I've never been decloaked and when I use it in story missions it always lets me choose when, where, and how a fight starts, and I enjoy that advantage. Might be unnecessary but its fun, which is my priority. There are in fact people who play KDF side without being Klingon Players.
The tech transfer is unbalanced because the tech distribution is unbalanced. Some people seem to have this pride in seeing themselves as the oppressed and noble underdog in all things, but its just not there. Population yes, cstore and fleets yes. Other than that.....
"You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else."
The problem you're missing, Iskandus, is that it BECOMES an OP item-plas leech procs based on hits-five weapons (see: Andorian Escort) hitting multiple times (See: DHC or dual Cannons) is certainly going to have more impact, more quickly, with a longer sustained rate, than three or four DHC's, with more integral punch as well, doing more damage, at less sacrifice.
Likewise, it's EASIER to build and spec a drain build for the Fed than the KDF, as it is easier to spec for insulators to counter a drain build, thanks to the imbalance in science console slots inherent between the factions (re: the ability to equip power insulators-which, as a fed fighting KDF prior to this, you should already know-spec for insulators and your drain issues mostly disappear.) Your numbers on your fed drain build? guess what?
you can't do that on a KDF ship without Aceton, there just isn't hte console space.
as I said, it's OP NOW, because NOW you can actually get the optimum combination to use it-Fedside, an optimum combination you can't GET KDF side. KDF side there's no way to build an opposing layout to resist the effects.
Seeing as there is a maxium stack size it wouldnt matter unless you were in a 1 on 1. And even then that extra forward slot comes at the cost of a rear slo andt it balances out since cannons and turrets generate the same number of hits per second so it would be the same number of applications per second VS a standard 4/3 ship.
And most drain builds I've seen that are actualy effective rely on siphon drones and aceton assimilators. Something feds don't have. Beyond that ES3 is available to everyone who has the science slots for it. and the breen set is still available to all factions.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
how fast to build the stack up? How long between stacks? if it had a cool-down, I might agree with you, but it's not set up that way. someone being able to max-stack consistently each pass is going to have a HELL of a lot more impact/benefit, than someone cornered into maxing stack once in a while.
Also, you're using "Cannons and turrets" as in: single cannons and turrets, which I generally agree do have the same number of hits per second. DUAL cannons have a higher rate of fire, which means MORE hits per second.
See: More shots fired (ceterus paribus)=more hits, so 4 DC hit fewer times than 5 DC, 4DC+3T hits fewer times (ceterus paribus) than 5DC+2T.
and most KDF players don't fly Raptors into PvP...for a reason-it's a lot harder to stay on a target in a Raptor, than it is in, say, a Fleet Advanced Escort. (it's the Pivot problem again). They fly ships with FEWER guns-aka Bird of Prey or BoP, or they fly ships with more hull and shields (aka Battlecruisers.)
an all-cannons build BC might be able to top your Kumari's Leech performance, assuming both are shooting at relatively slow targets with low situational awareness, but that BoP isn't.
and when it comes to P-Leech, that's usually where a KDF player uses it-because the Bird of Prey doesn't have the punch of a real escort, but is likely to be FACING real escorts-it's a slight edge on a BoP...but on a proper Escort it's ugly, fast...
and that doesn't touch on Science ships which can spec to pull drains KDF ships can't pull without Siphon Drones or Aceton Assimilators.
Actualy you can max the stack prety quickly with just 4 beams, and beams are easy to keep on target so keeping that stack maxed is easy.
And the drain on your target is minimal if they bother to put points in insulators. On its own leech doesnt even effect npcs enough to matter.
It really isnt that strong of a console. It takes 6000 skill points just to make effective and those 6000 points are wasted unless energy drain is a large part of your build.
It's a gimmick, that in some cases is effective, like all the other c store consoles. And will really only be a boon to romulans since they have less power to begin with.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Yeah, but you can max it in ONE PASS with the right setup of cannons-which the Kumari has if you don't go beamscort with it. Add in the other lockbox giveaway (that very nearly, but cosmetically doesn't, match the precise effect of the Elite Disruptors) and you have a recipe for easy kills in PvP-as in easier than trying it with KDF equipment.
I feel like we're kind of talking past each other here.
No Im just pointing out that it really isn't as good as people think it is.
And beam ships dont make passes.
The nanite diruptors trade a half disruptor proc (-5 instead of -10) for 2% more shield penetration.
I believe elite disruptors are supposed to reduce shield damage resistance not simply byoass it. So really nanite disruptors have some DEM mixed in and elite disruptors cause your shields take more damage from all sources. I also heard that they still get the -10 damage resistance ontop of the -10 shield damage resistance. But I personaly have not seen them yet.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
As a follow up after reading this thread, I bought Plasmonic Leech immediately off the exchange for a small sum of EC last night. Didn't really have the chance to do some real testing until now due to STO server issues. This is the result of using merely one single Flow Capacitor MK XII Ultra-Rare (Plasma Infused) and a build spec for power drain :
Weapons Power : 125 / 55
Shields Power : 125 / 60
Engines Power : 125 / 60
Auxiliary Power : 130 / 25
Please note from the screenshot, the EPtS was not activated, otherwise, it would add +26.1 to Shields Power due to Electro-Plasma skill = 140, which was redundant given Shields Power is already at 125. Auxiliary power can exceed 125 due to the spec of a Warp Core that allows such design. Only 6 points go into Engines and Shields performance skills each and merely 2 points each to Weapons and Auxiliary performance skills.
Whoa. I use PlasLeech on a drain build and I don't get anything like those numbers. That was before LoR, of course, I haven't done anything else but play a Rommie toon and wait in queue since it dropped.
Edit: Oh, nevermind, I see. My drain build doesn't use Energy Siphon, that'll be why... I do more interesting things with it instead.
Personally I find it hilarious that Klingon captains are complaining about feds getting their sweet consoles while they get feds crappy consoles all the while remaining completely ignorant of the fact that kdf got almost all the sweet consoles while feds got all the crappy consoles.
LOL.
Also the argument that leech was OP at all from Klingon side was non-existent before they had to face it.
Guess how OP aceton will be once feds get that. LOL.
Yeah, Leech maxes out at ~20-ish. Which is definitely significant, but not, you know, enough to bring someone up to 125/all.
I imagine his running twin energy siphon has more to do with hos amazing power levels than leech does.
Though I did find his "Thanks KDF" funny since the feds brought up the leech weeks before LoRs release.
All we KDF did was show our being upset that one of our lures for Romulans to come play KDF was taken from us at the most unopportune time. Almost purposely some will say.
Personally I find it hilarious that Klingon captains are complaining about feds getting their sweet consoles while they get feds crappy consoles all the while remaining completely ignorant of the fact that kdf got almost all the sweet consoles while feds got all the crappy consoles.
LOL.
Also the argument that leech was OP at all from Klingon side was non-existent before they had to face it.
Guess how OP aceton will be once feds get that. LOL.
Well thats BS on many levels. All the consoles where slated for crossfaction as per the devs, The leech was cried as OP by the feds months ago and changed due to that outcry because it was broken and even we KDF admitted it was at that time, The leech now is so easily countered its almost non existant drain on a target while giving full buff to the user thanks to those nerf cries, Lastly our true ***** is the timing of the leech being made availible to the feds because it hurt our attraction to new Romulan players while just making the feds that much attractive a choice.
Heck the feds where demanding the Leech weeks before LoR was even released.
You may want to curtailing your gloating and research the whole history of the leech before assuming this thread is all that concerns it or why the KDF feel cheated again.
That, and he is attacking a PvE target with no drain defenses.
It sounds like you are really not familiar with how energy drain works. A target's drain defenses have no bearing on how much the energy is being transferred. The actual energy gain is based on the strength of the said boff power and the captain's skills, nothing else, not even Aux power level.
Also, to be confirmed by the dev, Borg NPC have in fact higher resists against many Sci powers than players do. Notice how things like scramble sensors or jam sensors barely affect the Borg? What you see in the pic is a Borg Sphere being hammered by total drain on his weapons system by a wooping 109 points. Against a player who has no energy resist, his weapons would be offline long time ago but the Sphere's weapons are not. In addition, NPCs in general have been greatly enhanced at the Elite level since LoR. Borg in particular now move incredibly fast and aggressively that Gravity Well no longer holds them anymore. You should try fighting those NPC at Elite level and see how much they have been buffed, the difference is super obvious.
I imagine his running twin energy siphon has more to do with hos amazing power levels than leech does.
Once again, you think incorrectly. ES has a duplicate cooldown of 30s on each other, which means no ES can run simultaneously. In other words, only one ES may be active at any given time. Hence, running two has nothing to do with the "amazing power levels". Heck, if anyone can put one ES and cause all their powers to be 125+ everywhere, the dev would have nerfed it long time ago. So no, your hypothesis is wrong. As to the exact why & how and details of the mechanics or what consoles are used - I am not going to disclose it in a Klingon forum - sorry, classified on the orders of Starfleet. :P
Though I did find his "Thanks KDF" funny since the feds brought up the leech weeks before LoRs release.
Funny, the news that Starfleet will gain access to Leech was revealed one day before LoR in a LoR blog post, which I read but completely missed. I suspect many Feds also missed them in those long readings and blogs. In other words, nothing caught our attention until the Klingons started to cry foul in super high pitch and attracted the attention of every person and their pets. Notice how this thread has currently the most views in this sub-forum? As for any discussion weeks before, those were just wishful thinking like thousands other ideas out there. You know, I am still hoping they will give me a unique Timeship Warp Core and allow anyone who acquired the Aeon timeship shuttle and the Wells / Mobius main ships to have fighter versions of the Aeron launchable from the main ship. So yeah, if by "brought up", you mean those countless number of speculations and wishes out there -- seriously, who has the time to filter through all of them? They just get lost in the crowd and wouldn't attract much attention. Now, the OP's thread is different - it's not a wish but a statement of fact - now that will catch people's attention and it did.
All we KDF did was show our being upset that one of our lures for Romulans to come play KDF was taken from us at the most unopportune time. Almost purposely some will say.
Here I thought the Klingons hate Romulans based on how the Roms interfered in the Klink civil war? Why would you want a bunch of people whom you consider dishonorable, deceitful and downright mean & unworthy to join your side? Has anyone forgot how Wolf's biological parents were killed?
On the other hand, if some newbie Romulan is supposed to be attracted to the KDF based on one single console, that's just hilarious. Let's just say the decision to join one side or the other is most likely a little more complex than based on the "lure" of one single console...
So far, the vast majority of high end Romulan ships I have seen out there seem to go overwhelmingly Federation. Could it be that they realize that joining KDF has less value because they already have the cloaking technology and joining Starfleet will bring more utility to them? In any event, blaming it on one console is just, um...how can I say this diplomatically, well "far-fetched".
The fact that you seem to think EPtE actually doing something = borg getting an uberbuff is adorable.
I also played other NPC missions, like Defense Contract, to get my daily allotment of Duterium surplus. You should see how much those Cardi NPCs got buffed damage wise. In less than 3 seconds, I lost over 30% of my hull while my shields were up. Also, for the first time in ages, I failed to defend all 3 posts (1 of them blew up without me even realizing it until after the mission was done). Granted, the difficulty level is set at Elite. However, their damage got boosted so much, the firs tank is reported to suffer heavy damage pretty much within 5 seconds of the NPC showing up, before I could even started to open fire.
So perhaps, it would be wiser for you to get your facts right and actually play and see the difference yourself than patronizing others with those remarks. There is speed and damage buff, not just the Borg.
Comments
You forgot the point defense system, which is also a fun little toy when you have high-yield torps or fighters tracking you. Makes Danubes go away.
But beyond that, genuinely asking, what Fed consoles ARE there? Only things I can think of are the torp point defense (which is exclusive to a single ship period) and the wide-angle torpedo. Other than that theres what the MVAE console? The Regent's TRIBBLE console? The plasma manifold off the Oberth? I think the Klingons just got the best console the Feds have left.
I did. I liked that it looked like a modern constitution.
Your argument basicaly says that the KDf had better cheeze to begin with.
The wide angle torp will probably end up on a KDF c store ship, probably as another torpedo type.
Also nadeon detonator is prety nasty on a b'rel.
And in general I dont use the universal consoled that came on many of my cstore ships. In fact as I think about it I dont use most of what came on my klingon ships either. Only one character even has leech installed.
And before you call the seeker torp useless remember this.
1) there is now an entire faction of battle cloakers that can ally with either KDF or FED.
2) Roms and KDF both have a ship with enhanced battle cloak.
3) The torpedo will also hit non cloaked ships so it isnt wasted in no one cloaks.
4) Leech isnt as great as some people make it out to be.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Another pragmatic solution I can think of to address the Klignons' concern is a buff to the emission-seeking torp. As it stands, it does a poor job of tracking cloaked targets and is way too slow. If the torp will now actively track and pursue any cloaked ship within 15Km of it and travels at a speed comparable to say, the Cluster Torp, then this console would be very useful. Hence, the Klignons can no longer complain that this console is useless.
Something is not right here. Did LoR break leech console?
Elite Defense Stovokor
Don't be so certain. With cloaked ships becoming as common as rats on the streets, there is a pressing need for a more effective counter to cloaked ships. The Emission-Seeking torp was a noble idea that never got off the ground due to poor design some years ago. Following that, there was no pressure to review it as most Feds just gave up on using it so the Dev did nothing. If there is a time to review that console, it's now.
Besides, the Leech is only powerful in the hands of those who know how to use it. The base drain of Leech is merely 1 point per sec up to 8 ticks max. In principle, with 50% drain resist, the base drain is only a laughable 4 points, which most players would just shrug off as irrelevant. The screenshot you are looking at is from someone who boosts that base drain by almost 300% from careful spec planning in skills and traits and boff powers. There is also an opportunity cost for equipping this console as I had to give up on another very useful one in order to accommodate the Leech. It's definitely not without cost but you know that already.
What I find curious is while Leech was an exclusive Klignon tool, the Klignons such as yourself, never called for it to be nerfed and many said it was not OP, merely a "fair" console. Now that Starfleet also has access to it, it became the end of the world?
Impulse Cell and Nadeon Detonator were already in lockboxes. Transwarp Computer, I admit I thought it was limited to the T3 Excelsior, but I looked up and see I was incorrect. Wide-angle, yeah that seems fair somewhere, or maybe give the Klingons a wide-angle photon or something for local flavor (I like photons better anyways).
As for 'advantages of Federation ships,' I have to go 'huh?' though. Feds have more variety and fleet discounts definitely, no argument there. But superior ships? I just don't see it beyond a few percent advantage here, a few percent drawback there.
The Vesta is definitely a superior science ship, but against the rest the Varanus stacks up just fine. (And lets be honest, this is science we're talking about.) There's also the Voquv vs the Atrox, which stack pretty evenly and comes down to pet preference, though Feds do not have any frigates. Then there's the Karfi which is unlike anything Fed side. Cruisers, KDF battlecruiser knock the stuffing out of their Fed counterparts with comparable boff layouts, hulls, and shielding, but superior power distribution and maneuverability with no drawbacks.
Then there's escorts, where hulls shields and maneuverability are about the same, but Feds do have a lot more variety in layouts available. However, Klingons also get the BoP which has any layout you want and the only Federation 'counterpart' is the joke Aquarius. There IS the Kumari with its 5 forward weapons, but what it pays for those, every one of my fleetmates who bought the thing went back to what they were driving earlier, and they're much better escort pilots than I so I'll trust their judgement on that ship. The only real escort difference left then is the 5th tac console (which amounts to what 5% more damage?) versus cloaking devices. One allows a little more pressure damage but always works (though costs you a console somewhere else), the other is finicky but when it does work grants complete tactical initiative.
So science is close with Feds having 1 better ship. Carriers go to Klingons. Cruisers go to Klingons. Multipurpose ships go to Klingons. Escorts are close with the Feds having a slight edge that could be fixed with another release or two for better BOFF seating. And thats not even bringing up the extras in consoles or cloaks, which is another all-around KDF advantage, major or minor a bonus as they may be, but a separate discussion. So whats the 'superiority' that I'm missing, because I don't see it?
And there doesn't seem to be much backlash for the emission seeking things being "given" to the KDF. Doesn't that sort of support the point of view that it's not "as good" as the Leech?
It's all marginal utility of the trade off, and the KDF see that as all going in a one way street toward the federation. Your mileage may vary.
Varanus T5
Deep Space Science Vessel T5
Damn near identical
Vor'cha Retrofit T5
Assault Cruiser T5
Real close, same shields and boffs and consoles. Assault cruiser has 3k more hull and another device. Vor'cha has the cloak, momentum, and 43% better turning.
As for 'roll a Klingon,' lots of people have and have tried this stuff. I've got 3, have flown all types from Hegh'tas to Vo'quvs to my flagship Fleet Tor'kaht, and they're a hell of a lot easier to use and much more lethal than anything I have Fed side. Like 95% of the game I don't PVP, in my case because I don't care, I don't like aggressive people, and I'd much rather just build stuff. Also means I've never been decloaked and when I use it in story missions it always lets me choose when, where, and how a fight starts, and I enjoy that advantage. Might be unnecessary but its fun, which is my priority. There are in fact people who play KDF side without being Klingon Players.
The tech transfer is unbalanced because the tech distribution is unbalanced. Some people seem to have this pride in seeing themselves as the oppressed and noble underdog in all things, but its just not there. Population yes, cstore and fleets yes. Other than that.....
"You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else."
Seeing as there is a maxium stack size it wouldnt matter unless you were in a 1 on 1. And even then that extra forward slot comes at the cost of a rear slo andt it balances out since cannons and turrets generate the same number of hits per second so it would be the same number of applications per second VS a standard 4/3 ship.
And most drain builds I've seen that are actualy effective rely on siphon drones and aceton assimilators. Something feds don't have. Beyond that ES3 is available to everyone who has the science slots for it. and the breen set is still available to all factions.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Actualy you can max the stack prety quickly with just 4 beams, and beams are easy to keep on target so keeping that stack maxed is easy.
And the drain on your target is minimal if they bother to put points in insulators. On its own leech doesnt even effect npcs enough to matter.
It really isnt that strong of a console. It takes 6000 skill points just to make effective and those 6000 points are wasted unless energy drain is a large part of your build.
It's a gimmick, that in some cases is effective, like all the other c store consoles. And will really only be a boon to romulans since they have less power to begin with.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
No Im just pointing out that it really isn't as good as people think it is.
And beam ships dont make passes.
The nanite diruptors trade a half disruptor proc (-5 instead of -10) for 2% more shield penetration.
I believe elite disruptors are supposed to reduce shield damage resistance not simply byoass it. So really nanite disruptors have some DEM mixed in and elite disruptors cause your shields take more damage from all sources. I also heard that they still get the -10 damage resistance ontop of the -10 shield damage resistance. But I personaly have not seen them yet.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Whoa. I use PlasLeech on a drain build and I don't get anything like those numbers. That was before LoR, of course, I haven't done anything else but play a Rommie toon and wait in queue since it dropped.
Edit: Oh, nevermind, I see. My drain build doesn't use Energy Siphon, that'll be why... I do more interesting things with it instead.
That, and he is attacking a PvE target with no drain defenses. I dare say the bulk of his power is comming through the siphon he is using.
R.I.P
Yeah, Leech maxes out at ~20-ish. Which is definitely significant, but not, you know, enough to bring someone up to 125/all.
LOL.
Also the argument that leech was OP at all from Klingon side was non-existent before they had to face it.
Guess how OP aceton will be once feds get that. LOL.
I imagine his running twin energy siphon has more to do with hos amazing power levels than leech does.
Though I did find his "Thanks KDF" funny since the feds brought up the leech weeks before LoRs release.
All we KDF did was show our being upset that one of our lures for Romulans to come play KDF was taken from us at the most unopportune time. Almost purposely some will say.
R.I.P
Well thats BS on many levels. All the consoles where slated for crossfaction as per the devs, The leech was cried as OP by the feds months ago and changed due to that outcry because it was broken and even we KDF admitted it was at that time, The leech now is so easily countered its almost non existant drain on a target while giving full buff to the user thanks to those nerf cries, Lastly our true ***** is the timing of the leech being made availible to the feds because it hurt our attraction to new Romulan players while just making the feds that much attractive a choice.
Heck the feds where demanding the Leech weeks before LoR was even released.
You may want to curtailing your gloating and research the whole history of the leech before assuming this thread is all that concerns it or why the KDF feel cheated again.
R.I.P
It sounds like you are really not familiar with how energy drain works. A target's drain defenses have no bearing on how much the energy is being transferred. The actual energy gain is based on the strength of the said boff power and the captain's skills, nothing else, not even Aux power level.
Also, to be confirmed by the dev, Borg NPC have in fact higher resists against many Sci powers than players do. Notice how things like scramble sensors or jam sensors barely affect the Borg? What you see in the pic is a Borg Sphere being hammered by total drain on his weapons system by a wooping 109 points. Against a player who has no energy resist, his weapons would be offline long time ago but the Sphere's weapons are not. In addition, NPCs in general have been greatly enhanced at the Elite level since LoR. Borg in particular now move incredibly fast and aggressively that Gravity Well no longer holds them anymore. You should try fighting those NPC at Elite level and see how much they have been buffed, the difference is super obvious.
Once again, you think incorrectly. ES has a duplicate cooldown of 30s on each other, which means no ES can run simultaneously. In other words, only one ES may be active at any given time. Hence, running two has nothing to do with the "amazing power levels". Heck, if anyone can put one ES and cause all their powers to be 125+ everywhere, the dev would have nerfed it long time ago. So no, your hypothesis is wrong. As to the exact why & how and details of the mechanics or what consoles are used - I am not going to disclose it in a Klingon forum - sorry, classified on the orders of Starfleet. :P
Funny, the news that Starfleet will gain access to Leech was revealed one day before LoR in a LoR blog post, which I read but completely missed. I suspect many Feds also missed them in those long readings and blogs. In other words, nothing caught our attention until the Klingons started to cry foul in super high pitch and attracted the attention of every person and their pets. Notice how this thread has currently the most views in this sub-forum? As for any discussion weeks before, those were just wishful thinking like thousands other ideas out there. You know, I am still hoping they will give me a unique Timeship Warp Core and allow anyone who acquired the Aeon timeship shuttle and the Wells / Mobius main ships to have fighter versions of the Aeron launchable from the main ship. So yeah, if by "brought up", you mean those countless number of speculations and wishes out there -- seriously, who has the time to filter through all of them? They just get lost in the crowd and wouldn't attract much attention. Now, the OP's thread is different - it's not a wish but a statement of fact - now that will catch people's attention and it did.
Here I thought the Klingons hate Romulans based on how the Roms interfered in the Klink civil war? Why would you want a bunch of people whom you consider dishonorable, deceitful and downright mean & unworthy to join your side? Has anyone forgot how Wolf's biological parents were killed?
On the other hand, if some newbie Romulan is supposed to be attracted to the KDF based on one single console, that's just hilarious. Let's just say the decision to join one side or the other is most likely a little more complex than based on the "lure" of one single console...
So far, the vast majority of high end Romulan ships I have seen out there seem to go overwhelmingly Federation. Could it be that they realize that joining KDF has less value because they already have the cloaking technology and joining Starfleet will bring more utility to them? In any event, blaming it on one console is just, um...how can I say this diplomatically, well "far-fetched".
Hmm.. I dare say I missed the syphon when I typed that comment last night, in a somewhat inebriated state of mind.
Elite Defense Stovokor
I also played other NPC missions, like Defense Contract, to get my daily allotment of Duterium surplus. You should see how much those Cardi NPCs got buffed damage wise. In less than 3 seconds, I lost over 30% of my hull while my shields were up. Also, for the first time in ages, I failed to defend all 3 posts (1 of them blew up without me even realizing it until after the mission was done). Granted, the difficulty level is set at Elite. However, their damage got boosted so much, the firs tank is reported to suffer heavy damage pretty much within 5 seconds of the NPC showing up, before I could even started to open fire.
So perhaps, it would be wiser for you to get your facts right and actually play and see the difference yourself than patronizing others with those remarks. There is speed and damage buff, not just the Borg.