Romulan "Enterprise Incident" D7s?

jolau

So, it looks like all canon Romulan ships will be considered Warbirds, and all canon Romulan ships will be in this progression but with one exception, the D7-Rs from "Enterprise Incident".
Are we going to see these ships on the Romulan side in their own progression (Or perhaps a Romulan version of the B'rel), or will the K'tinga remain a Klingon only ship?

thecosmic1

If you ally with the KDF you can use any T1 through T4 Klingon ship as you level - assuming you wish to buy said ship.

captsol

Yeah, more than likely what thecosmic said. I doubt Cryptic will make another version of the D7 for the Romulans.

thratch1

In the shows, what was the difference between Romulan and Klingon D7 ships (aside from the paint job in the Remastered version)?

jestersage

thratch1 wrote: »

In the shows, what was the difference between Romulan and Klingon D7 ships (aside from the paint job in the Remastered version)?

To my knowledge none - in TOS Romulans are allied with KDF, and in fact Romulans are the main reason why KDF have cloak.

mandoknight89

thecosmic1 wrote: »

If you ally with the KDF you can use any T1 through T4 Klingon ship as you level - assuming you wish to buy said ship.

And it makes sense to me that the only Romulans that get the D7 are the ones that ally with the Klingons... it was that way in TOS, after all.

rickeyredshirt

jestersage wrote: »

To my knowledge none - in TOS Romulans are allied with KDF, and in fact Romulans are the main reason why KDF have cloak.

Yes. TOS Romulan ships did not have the ability to travel at warp speed but could cloak. The Klingons traded the schematics for the warp-capable D7 in return for their cloaking technology.

centersolace

I do think romulan D-7s should get their own unique paint job.

jolau

thratch1 wrote: »

In the shows, what was the difference between Romulan and Klingon D7 ships (aside from the paint job in the Remastered version)?

Plasma torpedoes, probably.
The Starfleet Command/Starfleet Battles series usually gave them better phasers (or in canon case, disruptors) as well.

Most canon sources have some sort of technological exchange between the Romulans and the Klingons (IE: Cloaking devices for D7s), but I'm wondering if this was actually Romulans capturing a Klingon ship, and then copying the design.

It would be interesting to see if STO gives a "Romulan" spin on the D7s though.

neoakiraii

rickeyredshirt wrote: »

Yes. TOS Romulan ships did not have the ability to travel at warp speed but could cloak. The Klingons traded the schematics for the warp-capable D7 in return for their cloaking technology.

Where did it ever state the Romulans did not have warp drive...clearly they had it on Enterprise.

reginamala78

Maybe allow Romulans to buy Fleet D7s, but only use the D7 skin with a Romulan paint job? I mean if they're using the TOS BoPs....

thratch1

In another thread, I posited that eventually, Cryptic would add in Vulcan-Romulan hybrid ship designs, to fit in with the theme of reunification between the Republic and the Vulcan government. It would be a ship available to both Federation and Romulan players.

The D7, or something else in the spirit of the D7, could be something similar for Romulan and KDF players.

malakhglitch

thratch1 wrote: »

In another thread, I posited that eventually, Cryptic would add in Vulcan-Romulan hybrid ship designs, to fit in with the theme of reunification between the Republic and the Vulcan government. It would be a ship available to both Federation and Romulan players.

A ship based off the Jellyfish?

azurianstar

I think part of the team's reason for Romulans to use T1-T4 ships is partly due to the D7. K-Roms surely could use the gray paintjob and have it similar to the TOS D7-Rs.

Maybe they will sneek in the Firebird paintjob for Romulan players who fly it, using Romulan faction skins.

neoakiraii wrote: »

Where did it ever state the Romulans did not have warp drive...clearly they had it on Enterprise.

Scotty saying in Enterprise Incident of the Romulan BoP being "under simple impulse".

But like you pointed out, Romulans did have Warp Capability in Enterprise (definitely with the Warbird / Drone ship), which means that TOS BoP likely had it, but couldn't due to the power the cloaking device and the plasma torpedo took.

grouchyotaku

neoakiraii wrote: »

Where did it ever state the Romulans did not have warp drive...clearly they had it on Enterprise.

Because of the 'Temporal War', the series Enterprise smashed established canon in so many ways... The fact that the Romulans lacked Warp drive was established in the TOS Episode 'Balance of Terror'...

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Balance_of_Terror_%28episode%29

sander233

azurianstar wrote: »

I think part of the team's reason for Romulans to use T1-T4 ships is partly due to the D7. K-Roms surely could use the gray paintjob and have it similar to the TOS D7-Rs.

Maybe they will sneek in the Firebird paintjob for Romulan players who fly it, using Romulan faction skins...

If they don't I'm going with Green Aquila pattern on my ally ships.

reginamala78

TOS said a lot of odd things that don't really hold up. If the Romulans didn't have some kind of faster-than-light travel in the TOS era, they wouldn't be much of a star empire. Its a looooooooong flight between stars at sublight speeds.

neoakiraii

Yeah the ship had simple impulse but never said it could not travel faster than light....also the term warp in TOS changed so many times warp was what the Enterpise used to maneuver at times when it was fighting a Klingon D7.

azurianstar

reginamala78 wrote: »

TOS said a lot of odd things that don't really hold up. If the Romulans didn't have some kind of faster-than-light travel in the TOS era, they wouldn't be much of a star empire. Its a looooooooong flight between stars at sublight speeds.

Indeed, can't establish a huge territory without Warp.

neoakiraii wrote: »

Yeah the ship had simple impulse but never said it could not travel faster than light....also the term warp in TOS changed so many times warp was what the Enterpise used to maneuver at times when it was fighting a Klingon D7.

Yeah, when I hear people argue on it I'm like "it has warp nacelles!"

rattler2

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Romulan_Bird-of-Prey_%2823rd_century%29

Even the wiki calls those things on the side "Warp Necelles" and also goes into detail over the fact that 22nd century BOPs had warp.

kalder77

If i remember well...

Tos romulan ship were warp capable ships, but they cannot warp AND cloak. They fix this problem by using the d7 design from klingons at this time they were able to warp AND cloak.

(sry for my english it is not my native speaking)

wildmousex

jolau2 wrote: »

Plasma torpedoes, probably.
The Starfleet Command/Starfleet Battles series usually gave them better phasers (or in canon case, disruptors) as well.

I got to do a test play of that at a RPG convention back in the day, all I remember was we kept knocking each others shields down and transporting mines onto bridges. - fun times.

jhymesba

I was always under the impression that what they meant by 'impulse power' is that the ship used a fusion reactor to power its FTL drive. It was clear that the T'Liss that Kirk's Connie followed was warp capable, as in it could get back to its home star in something less than a year. It even seemed to be able to move faster than light while cloaked. However, I suspect it was dog slow, and probably only packed that Plasma-R as an offensive weapon.

I'm guessing the Romulan/Klingon D7 brought the Romulans a few advances.

Large scale ship construction. Being able to disassemble a D7 and see how it is assembled would help advance them to the next level in terms of starship design.

Working DEWs. Being able to take apart a Klingon starship mounted phaser or disruptor would go a long way to helping them build their own.

A working antimatter reactor/warp core. I suspect the biggest thing holding the Romulans back pre-Klingon treaty was power concerns. They had very power hungry weapons (the Plasma-R in particular) and ECM (the cloak), and of course, FTL is power-hungry in its own right. If they were indeed fusion powered, they had power constraints across the board.

Other things might include better materials science (bigger ships need to have better materials), better warp drive, and better support systems.

So, the Romulans go from the ship in Balance of Terror, a powerful first-strike weapon that seems ill suited for starship combat mounted on an otherwise unarmed ship, that can't shake the Big E and can't do anything significant to it besides make it run from the Plas-R, to the D'Deridex, which by all measures is superior to anything the Feds or the Klingons put out.

I'm guessing that the Temporal Cold War completely messed up the 22nd Century proto-T'Liss, giving them 24th or later era warp engines and possibly antimatter reactors.

stofsk

'Simple impulse' may refer to power generation rather than sublight propulsion i.e. nuclear fusion as opposed to matter/antimatter reaction. I think this is the way the scene should be interpreted, as it's quite clear that the Romulan Bird-of-prey had warp speed capability - not only does it actually have warp nacelles, but it's also 'far from the stars of home' which as a line of dialogue wouldn't make sense if the Romulan Neutral Zone encompassed the home star system.

Incidently there is no suggestion that the Romulan Bird-of-prey cannot go to warp while under cloak. Much of the action that takes place in 'Balance of Terror' does so while the Enterprise is at warp - which implies that the Romulans were under warp too. However, I'd accept the idea that they couldn't sustain high warp velocities while under cloak, which is a neat way to tie in the whole 'simple impulse' point Scotty mentioned - regardless of what this line referred to, it's meaning is that the Enterprise had greater power generation in comparison, which means more power to the engines etc.

azurianstar

Well there are other cases of Impulse Reactors being used for FTL. So we could assume that was the case, or Scotty was refering to their inability to Warp due to the power drain of the cloaking device and was limited to Impulse speeds.

jhymesba wrote: »

I was always under the impression that what they meant by 'impulse power' is that the ship used a fusion reactor to power its FTL drive. It was clear that the T'Liss that Kirk's Connie followed was warp capable, as in it could get back to its home star in something less than a year. It even seemed to be able to move faster than light while cloaked. However, I suspect it was dog slow, and probably only packed that Plasma-R as an offensive weapon.

I'm guessing that the Temporal Cold War completely messed up the 22nd Century proto-T'Liss, giving them 24th or later era warp engines and possibly antimatter reactors.

Got to comment on T'Liss.

Not sure why Cryptic is using "T'Liss" as the BoP's name when in the Enterprise Novels it was refering to the Holo Drone / Warbird, not the Bird of Prey. It drives me crazy when Cryptic picks and chooses what they want from other people's works and don't respect them. One major reason why I don't want to see STO as official canon.

rickeyredshirt

There are a lot of postulations as to whether Romulans really had warp capabilities or not. There is a good write-up at Ex Astris Scientia about the topic. The political and historical impact of the warp drive question becomes obvious if we postulate that the assumption of the Star Trek Chronology is true. About 2/3 of the way down the page.

Or from Memory-Alpha.org: The original dissidents named their race the Romulans and eventually settled on the twin planets later named Romulus and Remus. Romulans were considered a group of thugs at the time and warp drive was regarded as the key technology that allowed the founding of the aggressive Romulan Star Empire. (TNG: "Unification I"; Star Trek: Insurrection)

Also, According to the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Journal, the Romulan cloaking device was acquired by the Klingons as an exchange to several D7-class battle cruisers for the Romulans during the Alliance.

spork87

neoakiraii wrote: »

Where did it ever state the Romulans did not have warp drive...clearly they had it on Enterprise.

Balance of Terror the Bird of Pray's cloak drained so much power the vessel could not go to warp. Thats where he gets that Statement

f9thaceshigh

TBH, there are a lot of cases in TOS where impulse engines are used to travel at FTL speeds, it wasn't until much later that someone figured out the science behind them and decided that impulse was sublight. I think the original intent was that it indeed was FTL capable. In order to make it fit with modern "treknology" I'd have to agree with the EAS/SFM assumption that Scotty means fusion power.

neoakiraii

To me simple impulse just meant, the ship had a simple impulse drive compared to the Enterprise so at sub light speed the Enterprise could outrun it.

captainhunter1

Some interesting bits of trivia as to the real reasons why the Romulans aquired D7s and why the Klingons obtained cloaking technology....

Apparently sometime after "Balence of Terror" the original model of the Romulan Warbird was stolen and so was unavailable for filming. Due to time and budget constraints another could not be built, so the decision was made to use the only other 'enemy' ship they had available - the Klingon D7. The script was altered to fit the fact that Romulans were now using Klingon designs.

The Klingons never had a cloaking ship until another production error changed history. The first ship shown manned by Klingons that had a cloaking device was the famous 'Bird of Prey' commanded by Kruge in Star Trek III. According to source material, Kruge had stolen the Bird of Prey - a Romulan ship - hence the whole 'Bird' motif and cloak. This bit of information never made it into the movie - and so the world came to beleive that this was a Klingon design and that the Klingons - a proud warrior race, had somehow come to embrace a 'sneaky' backstabbing type of technology as standard equipment for their ships.