TOS said a lot of odd things that don't really hold up. If the Romulans didn't have some kind of faster-than-light travel in the TOS era, they wouldn't be much of a star empire. Its a looooooooong flight between stars at sublight speeds.
And so did TNG... In the Pilot episode, after the Saucer Separation, how did the Saucer make it to Far Point without Warp Drive? Yet its establish canon that the Saucer section lacks Warp Drive...
and so the world came to beleive that this was a Klingon design and that the Klingons - a proud warrior race, had somehow come to embrace a 'sneaky' backstabbing type of technology as standard equipment for their ships.
How hard would that have been to except Kruge was the first Klingon to ever mention honor as something the Klingons would be into, and their proud warrior race stick was from TNG which was made after Star Trek IV, until those point the Klingons were space fascists/Soviet Union stand ins. heck after Errand of Mercy, their next 3 appearances had them doing underhanded things in an attempt to get victory over the federation such as poisoning a federation colony's grain, instigating a conflict on a pre-warp planet and backing one of the sides by enhancing their existing technology, and backing a coup on Capella while leading the Enterprise away so Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were on their own.
Yeah, and the United Earth ships traveled at Impulse to reach Alpha Centauri (in 2048 - only thirty-five years to go!) where they met Centauri-native physicist Zephram Cochrane who invented warp drive with the WD-1 in 2055 and Alpha-C became one of the five Founding Members of the Federation.
All of that comes from the 1989 reference book "Worlds of the Federation". All of it was also thrown into the blender and put on 'frapee' with the movie "First Contact".
TOS had the Eugenics Wars ending in 1996 with Khan escaping on the Botany Bay, the Voyager crew traveled back in time to 1996 and there was no trace of the Eugenics Wars.
TNG and DS9 clearly state no women on the High Council, but Undiscovered Country has Azetbur not only on the Council but Chancellor.
Don't get me wrong, I love Star Trek, I've enjoyed it all my life, but sometimes you've just got to accept that there's major plotholes and either simply move on or blame Q and move on.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
Star Trek is a platform for telling certain kinds of stories. Don't get too hung up on the details.
As a side note, there are a few indications in ST that there are other (non-warp) drives which are FTL.
(E.g. how did the Botany Bay get out to where it was found?)
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How hard would that have been to except Kruge was the first Klingon to ever mention honor as something the Klingons would be into, and their proud warrior race stick was from TNG which was made after Star Trek IV, until those point the Klingons were space fascists/Soviet Union stand ins. heck after Errand of Mercy, their next 3 appearances had them doing underhanded things in an attempt to get victory over the federation such as poisoning a federation colony's grain, instigating a conflict on a pre-warp planet and backing one of the sides by enhancing their existing technology, and backing a coup on Capella while leading the Enterprise away so Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were on their own.
Heh, I agree. I liked the Klingons better in TOS. They made much better villians back then.
The new, turtlehead, proud, House of XXXX, 'samurai' Klingons are way too touchy, feely.
Just another example of how an evolution of something can get way out of control.
(Why Gene, WHY? Why did you have to make them ridge heads and give them their own language in 'Star Trek the Motion Picture?' Wasn't it enough that you made the crew of the Enterprise wear pajamas as uniforms?!!)
I always assumed the Romulan BoP in TOS had warp - that's how it got to other planets - but it couldn't use warp and cloak at the same time. It would warp into the outskirts of a system, go cloaked, and then use impulse to close the distance.
I also think its warp wasn't as fast as the TOS Contitution - which is why it was trying to stealth its way out rather then just jump to high warp. It's max warp might have only been around 7/8 whereas the Connie could hit 10 - or even 15 depending on who was writing the episode.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
yes saucer of galaxy has no warp capability. however, my deployable hoh'sus can't beat it in combat and I'm pretty sure it has warp capability. just food for thought.
captainhunter 1 I can't quote your signature, but perhaps the colony sits on top of or beneath romulan territory? I mean if sector space was representing it with accuracy.
Lyndon Brewer: 20% chance to capture enemy ship for 60 seconds on successful use of boarding party.
yes saucer of galaxy has no warp capability. however, my deployable hoh'sus can't beat it in combat and I'm pretty sure it has warp capability. just food for thought.
Brings up an interesting point, the Saucer had no warp capability, yet they did emergency saucer seperation at warp 9 and it survived without the warp bubble. :P
Yeah, and the United Earth ships traveled at Impulse to reach Alpha Centauri (in 2048 - only thirty-five years to go!) where they met Centauri-native physicist Zephram Cochrane who invented warp drive with the WD-1 in 2055 and Alpha-C became one of the five Founding Members of the Federation.
All of that comes from the 1989 reference book "Worlds of the Federation". All of it was also thrown into the blender and put on 'frapee' with the movie "First Contact".
Since it was never shown on screen, they have the luxery to change things around.
TOS had the Eugenics Wars ending in 1996 with Khan escaping on the Botany Bay, the Voyager crew traveled back in time to 1996 and there was no trace of the Eugenics Wars.
TNG and DS9 clearly state no women on the High Council, but Undiscovered Country has Azetbur not only on the Council but Chancellor.
Don't get me wrong, I love Star Trek, I've enjoyed it all my life, but sometimes you've just got to accept that there's major plotholes and either simply move on or blame Q and move on.
Afraid that's the truth, Star Trek canon is pretty bad in inconsistancy.
Star Trek is a platform for telling certain kinds of stories. Don't get too hung up on the details.
As a side note, there are a few indications in ST that there are other (non-warp) drives which are FTL.
(E.g. how did the Botany Bay get out to where it was found?)
Agreed on the details. As a side note on FTL impulse speeds, is this the mechanic we have in STO? There is full impulse (press R from a stop or E until you can go no faster) and then there is full impulse (shift+R), the latter to me indicates FTL travel using nothing but impulse engines.
Where did it ever state the Romulans did not have warp drive...clearly they had it on Enterprise.
There's already been a thread on the subject. You are correct, they obviously had warp drive. One line by Scotty that "their power is only impulse" is the origin of this ridiculous myth. He didn't mean they could only travel at impulse, otherwise that very episode would make no sense. It's TOS, what more can I say :rolleyes:
Thanks for the expansion that had "as much content as the last"
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
For lovers of technobabble, one long standing fan explanation is that 'impulse' power is not the same as 'impulse' engines. I.e. there is some form of 'impulse' fusion plant that can provide power to an FTL drive.
By the same token, 'warp' power refers to M/AM power plants, and is not the same as 'warp' (FTL) drives.
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captainhunter 1 I can't quote your signature, but perhaps the colony sits on top of or beneath romulan territory? I mean if sector space was representing it with accuracy.
The blue line is the Romulan Neutral Zone. The Rator System (the Romulan capitol) clearly sits on the Federation side of it. Just go into the game and turn on Astrometrics while in this sector and you can clearly see it. The Chulan (Fed) colony mission is set in an asteroid field area - which is what the icon in sector space where the Rator system in currently (incorrectly) placed. And visa versa. This swap was a mistake made during the mad rush to beat the deadline imposed when the game was launched - and was never corrected.
Kind of like Scotty's statement that the warbird was 'simple impulse' - when clearly it had warp nacelles and travelled well beyond the range of a sub-light only ship. Ironically, this misnomer would have been corrected in the "Enterprise Incident"...if someone hadn't stolen the warbird model which would have been used instead of having to substitute the D7 - lol.
The blue line is the Romulan Neutral Zone. The Rator System (the Romulan capitol) clearly sits on the Federation side of it. Just go into the game and turn on Astrometrics while in this sector and you can clearly see it. The Chulan (Fed) colony mission is set in an asteroid field area - which is what the icon in sector space where the Rator system in currently (incorrectly) placed. And visa versa. This swap was a mistake made during the mad rush to beat the deadline imposed when the game was launched - and was never corrected.
Kind of like Scotty's statement that the warbird was 'simple impulse' - when clearly it had warp nacelles and travelled well beyond the range of a sub-light only ship. Ironically, this misnomer would have been corrected in the "Enterprise Incident"...if someone hadn't stolen the warbird model which would have been used instead of having to substitute the D7 - lol.
Which brings us right back to the OPs topic. :P
Always have to chuckle at that. And they repeated that with Tau Dewa with Starbase 234 being in the middle of Romulan Territory, Suliban being regarded as Romulan and in Federation territory, and Romulan colonies in Klingon territory.
Then there are questionable missions like the baby killing on Orias.
As much as Cryptic brags about STO being canon, they sure have no respect for the IP to fix these things.
Especially, when the TOS BOP was named in the books at the Bird of Prey-class, unless T'Liss means Bird of Prey. At least there was no Raptor-class, in three different video games we got three different raptor-class that are supposedly in the same era.
By Scotty's comment, I am assuming he doesn't recognize the energy signature from the singularity core as the ship's main power source.
There's already been a thread on the subject. You are correct, they obviously had warp drive. One line by Scotty that "their power is only impulse" is the origin of this ridiculous myth. He didn't mean they could only travel at impulse, otherwise that very episode would make no sense. It's TOS, what more can I say :rolleyes:
Actually I would be far more inclined to believe something demonstrated in ENT to be a ridiculous myth. It broke pre-established canon on more than 1 occasion. :rolleyes:
Especially, when the TOS BOP was named in the books at the Bird of Prey-class, unless T'Liss means Bird of Prey. At least there was no Raptor-class, in three different video games we got three different raptor-class that are supposedly in the same era.
You latched on a Enterprise novel using that name, problem is T'liss was used on a TOS novel published in 1983, far predating your source, I am not sure Cryptic intended it but in the end the name comes NOT from the drone ship but rather from a predatory avian native to Romulus, if you want to use soft cannon then 1983 vs 2007, older source wins (and I suspect the '07 novel used that name from the '87 novel).
Okay then explain the T'Liss-class of the Enterprise Novel and the T'Liss-class used in STO? :rolleyes:
Two different ship types with the same name. We going to say T'Liss goes from meaning Bird to Warbird? :P
T'liss is the name of a predatory avian native to Romulus, I already mentioned it ... I believe ithe author meant its the same bird we see painted in the Romulan TOS Bird-of-Prey.
No, T'liss was mentioned ONLY on novels, one says its the name of a Romulan predatory avian and the other the name of a ship class.
They are not exclusive, the '07 novel likely named it AFTER the '83 novel Romulan predatory avian since it certainly NOT come up with the name unless its a HUGE coincidence that is HIGHLY unlikely.
This just shows you never bothered to click on my link, this shows you never bothered to read my post and stubborn continue to hold that T'liss was used ONLY on the subject of being the name of a certain ship class, it was not.
The first use of that word was in the 1983 novel "Web of the Romulans" that predates the 2007 Enterprise Novel "The Good That Men Do", the use of the word does not excludes it of being BOTH the name of the predatory avian native to Romulus and being used as the name of the Romulan Bird-of-Prey class.
Point is it did NOT originated as the name of a 22th century Romulan Warbird as you claim, it originated in a 1983 novel as the name of a predatory avian native to Romulus.
So the 1983 TOS Novel trumps the 2007 Enterprise novel because it's older. :rolleyes:
Or should we merely regard the Romulan translation of T'Liss as Bird-of-Prey / Warbird?
So are you saying the first usage of that word come in 2007?
You disregard the first use of the word because it doesnt suit your agenda ... you dance around, ignore and twist things so you are "right", I am argumentative but at least I have the decency of when I am wrong either admit it or simply stop arguing it.
The word "t'liss" originates in a 1983 novel, at no point is in conflict with the later 2007 novel ... right now your argument is no ship can be named Eagle because there was a ship named Eagle, never mind the word "Eagle" predates then ships themselves and it refers to something else entirely.
Why do you keep insisting on this? I make no such claim, I only point out what the word actually means when first used, I do not think the 2007 novel decided out of the blue use the exact same word without being a reference to the 1983 novel usage, since I am not the author I am not making ANY claims over its usage or context of such usage, only its origin and its original meaning that is in no way overridden by the 2007 novel.
You accuse me of dancing around when I asked one simple question - Why did Cryptic use T'Liss for the name of the R-BoP? That was it.
Instead, you droned on about a 1983 novel that "used it first" and left it at that. Now you say "at no point there is conflict with the later 2007 novel?" Then why are you aruging with me?
All you been saying all this time is that the painting on the bottom of the TOS Romulan BoP or the D7 was called the T'Liss. That's not what I was pointing out in the first place! The 1983 Novel and the 2007 novel does NOT SAY that the Romulan BoP (either the 22nd or 23rd century verisons) is the T'liss-class. BUT the 2007 Novel did call the call the Romulan Holo Drone ship the T'liss-class Warbird.
So you say I was dancing around? Well you sir, were the lead. Next time, instead of the Tango, how about a nice waltz? :rolleyes:
Because of the 'Temporal War', the series Enterprise smashed established canon in so many ways... The fact that the Romulans lacked Warp drive was established in the TOS Episode 'Balance of Terror'...
The lack of which would have made interstellar war impossible. It may be canon, but its a gaff on the part of the TOS writer. Unless the Romulan ship in "Balance of Terror" was carried there by another warp-capable ship, I call b.s. on it.
The lack of which would have made interstellar war impossible. It may be canon, but its a gaff on the part of the TOS writer. Unless the Romulan ship in "Balance of Terror" was carried there by another warp-capable ship, I call b.s. on it.
Now the very rare and hard to find FASA RPG Star Trek background book (supposedly based on the original writers notes and material) stated that the Romulans used a singularity powered 'slingshot' gate, so that Romulan ships could be rapidly placed to their destination, but the trip back would be at slow impulse speeds... A similar 'slingshot' gate was featured in a Voyager episode.
Klingons had Clock before Romulans, Romulans had Warp before Klingons. There was no alliance.
No one in war ever captures enemy ships and re paints them do they.
On topic having the D7 / K't'inga available for Romulans regardless of their alliances would be a good low level ship.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
roms actually stopped using plasma torpedos, or so I've read. reason being they were too unstable and often resulted in damage to the ship that fired it! romulans actually started using a standard torpedo type that was less punch and more reliable. can anyone confirm this for me?
dominion war, you see any warbids shooting plasma torps?? no!!!
Lyndon Brewer: 20% chance to capture enemy ship for 60 seconds on successful use of boarding party.
At the risk of turning this into another thread about the Alliance, general acceptance is not canon.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
How hard would that have been to except Kruge was the first Klingon to ever mention honor as something the Klingons would be into, and their proud warrior race stick was from TNG which was made after Star Trek IV, until those point the Klingons were space fascists/Soviet Union stand ins. heck after Errand of Mercy, their next 3 appearances had them doing underhanded things in an attempt to get victory over the federation such as poisoning a federation colony's grain, instigating a conflict on a pre-warp planet and backing one of the sides by enhancing their existing technology, and backing a coup on Capella while leading the Enterprise away so Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were on their own.
Yeah, and the United Earth ships traveled at Impulse to reach Alpha Centauri (in 2048 - only thirty-five years to go!) where they met Centauri-native physicist Zephram Cochrane who invented warp drive with the WD-1 in 2055 and Alpha-C became one of the five Founding Members of the Federation.
All of that comes from the 1989 reference book "Worlds of the Federation". All of it was also thrown into the blender and put on 'frapee' with the movie "First Contact".
TOS had the Eugenics Wars ending in 1996 with Khan escaping on the Botany Bay, the Voyager crew traveled back in time to 1996 and there was no trace of the Eugenics Wars.
TNG and DS9 clearly state no women on the High Council, but Undiscovered Country has Azetbur not only on the Council but Chancellor.
Don't get me wrong, I love Star Trek, I've enjoyed it all my life, but sometimes you've just got to accept that there's major plotholes and either simply move on or blame Q and move on.
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
As a side note, there are a few indications in ST that there are other (non-warp) drives which are FTL.
(E.g. how did the Botany Bay get out to where it was found?)
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Heh, I agree. I liked the Klingons better in TOS. They made much better villians back then.
The new, turtlehead, proud, House of XXXX, 'samurai' Klingons are way too touchy, feely.
Just another example of how an evolution of something can get way out of control.
(Why Gene, WHY? Why did you have to make them ridge heads and give them their own language in 'Star Trek the Motion Picture?' Wasn't it enough that you made the crew of the Enterprise wear pajamas as uniforms?!!)
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
I also think its warp wasn't as fast as the TOS Contitution - which is why it was trying to stealth its way out rather then just jump to high warp. It's max warp might have only been around 7/8 whereas the Connie could hit 10 - or even 15 depending on who was writing the episode.
captainhunter 1 I can't quote your signature, but perhaps the colony sits on top of or beneath romulan territory? I mean if sector space was representing it with accuracy.
cause sometimes its party time!
Brings up an interesting point, the Saucer had no warp capability, yet they did emergency saucer seperation at warp 9 and it survived without the warp bubble. :P
Since it was never shown on screen, they have the luxery to change things around.
Afraid that's the truth, Star Trek canon is pretty bad in inconsistancy.
Agreed on the details. As a side note on FTL impulse speeds, is this the mechanic we have in STO? There is full impulse (press R from a stop or E until you can go no faster) and then there is full impulse (shift+R), the latter to me indicates FTL travel using nothing but impulse engines.
There's already been a thread on the subject. You are correct, they obviously had warp drive. One line by Scotty that "their power is only impulse" is the origin of this ridiculous myth. He didn't mean they could only travel at impulse, otherwise that very episode would make no sense. It's TOS, what more can I say :rolleyes:
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
By the same token, 'warp' power refers to M/AM power plants, and is not the same as 'warp' (FTL) drives.
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[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
The blue line is the Romulan Neutral Zone. The Rator System (the Romulan capitol) clearly sits on the Federation side of it. Just go into the game and turn on Astrometrics while in this sector and you can clearly see it. The Chulan (Fed) colony mission is set in an asteroid field area - which is what the icon in sector space where the Rator system in currently (incorrectly) placed. And visa versa. This swap was a mistake made during the mad rush to beat the deadline imposed when the game was launched - and was never corrected.
Kind of like Scotty's statement that the warbird was 'simple impulse' - when clearly it had warp nacelles and travelled well beyond the range of a sub-light only ship. Ironically, this misnomer would have been corrected in the "Enterprise Incident"...if someone hadn't stolen the warbird model which would have been used instead of having to substitute the D7 - lol.
Which brings us right back to the OPs topic. :P
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
Always have to chuckle at that. And they repeated that with Tau Dewa with Starbase 234 being in the middle of Romulan Territory, Suliban being regarded as Romulan and in Federation territory, and Romulan colonies in Klingon territory.
Then there are questionable missions like the baby killing on Orias.
As much as Cryptic brags about STO being canon, they sure have no respect for the IP to fix these things.
By Scotty's comment, I am assuming he doesn't recognize the energy signature from the singularity core as the ship's main power source.
Actually I would be far more inclined to believe something demonstrated in ENT to be a ridiculous myth. It broke pre-established canon on more than 1 occasion. :rolleyes:
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/T'Liss_class It's not the Romulan "Bird of Prey" but the class-name of the Holographic Drone we saw used on Enterprise.
Yeah,
I noticed that there was no Rebuttal on that subject has well
Okay then explain the T'Liss-class of the Enterprise Novel and the T'Liss-class used in STO? :rolleyes:
Two different ship types with the same name. We going to say T'Liss goes from meaning Bird to Warbird? :P
So the 1983 TOS Novel trumps the 2007 Enterprise novel because it's older. :rolleyes:
Or should we merely regard the Romulan translation of T'Liss as Bird-of-Prey / Warbird?
You accuse me of dancing around when I asked one simple question - Why did Cryptic use T'Liss for the name of the R-BoP? That was it.
Instead, you droned on about a 1983 novel that "used it first" and left it at that. Now you say "at no point there is conflict with the later 2007 novel?" Then why are you aruging with me?
All you been saying all this time is that the painting on the bottom of the TOS Romulan BoP or the D7 was called the T'Liss. That's not what I was pointing out in the first place! The 1983 Novel and the 2007 novel does NOT SAY that the Romulan BoP (either the 22nd or 23rd century verisons) is the T'liss-class. BUT the 2007 Novel did call the call the Romulan Holo Drone ship the T'liss-class Warbird.
So you say I was dancing around? Well you sir, were the lead. Next time, instead of the Tango, how about a nice waltz? :rolleyes:
No one in war ever captures enemy ships and re paints them do they.
On topic having the D7 / K't'inga available for Romulans regardless of their alliances would be a good low level ship.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
dominion war, you see any warbids shooting plasma torps?? no!!!
cause sometimes its party time!
while never being 100% confirmed on screen, it is widely accepted that there was an alliance.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Romulan-Klingon_Alliance
At the risk of turning this into another thread about the Alliance, general acceptance is not canon.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!