Fixed it. In the rest of 95% pvp done, you pretty much neeed TT because you will never get any from anyone.
People who only pug are in a trapped in a vicious circle -- they can't rely on their team so they take greedy, useless fail builds, and that only spreads the problem because now their team cannot rely on them either. If even half of the guys who frequent OPvP decided to take selfless builds into the queues the average level of a pug team would be so much higher.
There are definitely a lot of things that could be done to help pug teams. Lowering the GCD on differing team abilities to 10s would help wonders, as would a distribute shields toggle. That being said, a lot of the blame for the terrible state of pugs in STO rests squarely in the hands of the pugs themselves. When I pug, I take my premade build and I do fine. Am I little bit less self sustainable? Sure. But I'm still more of an asset to the team in a proper build. Hopefully I'm also setting an example for other puggers to be less selfish.
You are right Jorf. But you have to work with what's in PuG not what you wish there was. Most players do not care much about pvp, they just want to have fun - their vision of fun. You cannot deny them their queus and you obviously cannot convert them - as much as some of your acolytes would love to.
You work with what you have, that's pugging. Taking TT for random Puggin (queue madness) is not being selfsish. Is not being suicidal.
Truth is, DHC crits hit hard torpedoes, without any drawback. They are the most power efficient weapons and the choice of weapon for pretty much anything. If they aren't that OP as some people claim, why everyone want them ? For style ? :rolleyes:
IF we for a moment would forget how does healing/passives look like in STO, do you feel those DHCs are balanced to other weapons ?
?
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Course, Geko already said they can't do anything to DHCs because the forums would flood for 40 days and 40 nights with all the tears...
Yet, they get what they want while PvP twists in the wind. Get off your high horse and start a proper pvp whining campaign. Start by making your own STO podcast .
People who only pug are in a trapped in a vicious circle -- they can't rely on their team so they take greedy, useless fail builds, and that only spreads the problem because now their team cannot rely on them either. If even half of the guys who frequent OPvP decided to take selfless builds into the queues the average level of a pug team would be so much higher.
I have to disagree with this. I mean, on so many levels, I have to disagree with this. Cause face it, what are the "selfish" and "selfless' builds? When one looks at the abilities, well - the majority of them are "self/ally" - so it's not really a case of them being "selfish"...
TT, APD, ET, AtS, ST, HE, TSS...they're self/ally.
ExS is ally.
EPtS, RSP, AtD are self.
It's not about the builds in that sense. It's definitely about builds - there are a lot of bad builds; but it's mainly about play - which includes communication. It also includes experience playing together.
You could take your favorite 5-man "selfless" collection of builds and give it to a PUG group...and...it would be a disaster. Say they try to share heals/buffs, eh? What are the odds that they do it at the same time so they're wasted? What are the odds they do it too late? Too early? On the wrong guy? What happens to them should the guy carrying the buff they're not carrying gets taken down?
Calling targets, knowing before hand who's going primarily to be tossing heals, knowing who has what, being aware of where folks are on the field of battle, all that situational awareness and all the rest...yeah...there's far more involved than the builds being "selfish" or "selfless"...
You could take the premade in the "selfish" ships and they would still destroy the PUG in "selfless" ships.
PUGmades...work to an extent because they've got awareness, experience, they communicate to the extent that they can, etc, etc, etc.
If folks that PUG were to make more self-sufficient ships, pay attention to what is going on, have somebody that's leading them - calling targets, etc, etc, etc...that would elevate their level of play.
They might reach the level of a PUGmade with some luck - it happens when folks from OPvP end up in a PUG together without organizing it beforehand...
...they're not going to reach the level of a decent premade any more than the PUGmade would.
There's no making light of the advantages that an actual premade group has against anything other than another premade group.
"Selfish" and "Selfless" builds...? Yeah, nowhere near the beginning of the problems one would encounter in the typical PUG.
Yet, they get what they want while PvP twists in the wind. Get off your high horse and start a proper pvp whining campaign. Start by making your own STO podcast .
Or perhaps opening up DCs to non-Escort ships and/or widening the arc?
Its painfully obvious most players don't realize this, but most ships in the game DO use DHCs or at least have the option to.
Fed cruisers, science vessels and all their various copy pastes (Gorn sci vessels for example) are the exception in not being able to use DHCs. KDF cruisers can, BoPs can, its only fed cruisers and sci vessels that cannot. TBH I wish they would just let DHCs be mounted on any ship and let people figure out things on their own.
I would imagine its obvious, instead of complaining about the PvE players getting their way by complainign you should get a podcast and start complaining yourself for resources being spent on PvP.
Its painfully obvious most players don't realize this, but most ships in the game DO use DHCs or at least have the option to.
Fed cruisers, science vessels and all their various copy pastes (Gorn sci vessels for example) are the exception in not being able to use DHCs. KDF cruisers can, BoPs can, its only fed cruisers and sci vessels that cannot. TBH I wish they would just let DHCs be mounted on any ship and let people figure out things on their own.
Why not rather make a heavy beam array instead giving DHCs to everyone ? More options, we wan' more options. I do not wan't my galaxy or nebula to shoot quazilions of beams per volley, I would be fairly happy with few big hiiters that are much more energy efficient.
Maybe introduce heavy beam array for large ships ? Escorts have DHC, Large ships Heavy beams, normal beams and single cannons for everyone.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Why are you guys not asking for buffs for science/cruiser and scientiest/engineers instead of trying to nerf the tacticals and escorts?
This wierd, seldom used concept of bringing the other two classes up would leave the causal and beginning (or alting) players capable of still contributing to PVE.
Because lets face it, do escorts and tacticals come from the tutorial out with Mark XII sets, fleet weapons, tier 5 reputation etc?
No, they do not. And nerfing them would put all the non-maxed out tacticals out of business.
Also, this is an idea I heard on the forums, its not mine but its one I like :
Give dual heavy beam banks, beam turrets, wide angle torpedoes and short angle torpedo, or even torpedo turret weapons into the game. (Or heavy beam arrays, as mentioned above in the previous post)
A broadside with 6 beam arrays and 2 wide angle torpedoes would really help the cruiser's damage dealing ability.
Also, giving Cruisers and Carriers some better turn rate may help too.
While the nerf to GDF is bad, I think it should be reversed. Some people need that damage to be able to get better gear .
Nerfing the tactical ability will just put more pain into the ESTF system, while buffing the weaker Photonic fleet and Nadion inversion abilities would help it.
This is another thing that a lot of "idea people" on the forum do not know.
Not all players are maxed out super elite PVPers.
Balancing the game for these "best of the best 5%" would really make it unplayable for the rest.
Also... remember Cryptic shares a trait with the late Relic Entertainment. When they nerf or buff, they sometimes overdo it.
Do we really want them to nerf the damage dealers into oblivion? That will mean pain for the STFs as well as the pvp (With nobody ever dying, as mentioned above) .
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
The problem is not only dhcs itself but that cannon skills are better and that turrets count as cannons and that their drain cycle is much faster/better and that the effektiv targeting arc conforms with torps.
Obviously you could turn that around and talk about problems of beam arrays instead of advantages of dhcs. But its not just one thing its the combo off all that.
Obviously you could turn that around and talk about problems of beam arrays instead of advantages of dhcs. But its not just one thing its the combo off all that.
We tried, the result was that the head system designer told us - beams are working as designed.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I would imagine its obvious, instead of complaining about the PvE players getting their way by complainign you should get a podcast and start complaining yourself for resources being spent on PvP.
Complaining about PvE players getting their way? Again, I'm not sure what you're talking about...I'm guessing you've mistaken me with somebody else or read something you believe I said that I didn't.
There is also the other option of instead of Nerfing DHC's.. we nerf the Class that causes DHCs to become insane..
Tactical.
*Ducks and hides from the onslaught*
My thoughts exactly. DHCs aren't the problem. Alone, their DPS is comparable to 6 beams broadsiding. Besides that, they have a very limited firing arc, and should be given the benefit of having slightly better damage.
The problem lies with the "Alpha Strike". Let's take each component apart and analyze them individually. APA grants approximately +47%-50% damage (given decent amount of Starship Attack Pattern skill) upon activation. Fire on My Mark grants a base of -50 all damage resistance, which is comparable to Attack Pattern Beta 3. As hefty of damage this is, GDF grants an additional 40% damage, scaling even higher with missing health. No doubt people would also activate Tactical Fleet, granting them another additional +30% damage.
This is currently the basic "Alpha Strike" running on holodeck without any other buffs - almost +130% damage and -50 damage resistance.
Now for some common escort abilities...like APO3 that grants an additional 25% damage to all weapons (not to mention immunity to all disables and movement debuffs, movement/turn rate buff, and damage resistance buff). Now we have a total of +155% damage and -50 damage resistance against the unlucky target. These number add up really fast!
I haven't even begun to take in the effects of CRF and Tact. Initiative that grants more DPS and gives them a second chance to sink whatever they missed on the first run (such as an "oh sh*t" RSP activation). Nor have I mentioned the standard stacking of Tact. Consoles that no other ships have. I should probably put in somewhere that Beam Overload also gets an additional 850% damage for that one hit on top of the 155% previously calculated, but that's outside of this thread. (Anyone want to calculate the damage of 1000% a DBB?)
The bottom line is: DHCs only seem to be overpowered because they're the most common weapons on escorts being buffed to insane levels of power.
__________________________________________________
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
My thoughts exactly. DHCs aren't the problem. Alone, their DPS is comparable to 6 beams broadsiding. Besides that, they have a very limited firing arc, and should be given the benefit of having slightly better damage.
The problem lies with the "Alpha Strike". Let's take each component apart and analyze them individually. APA grants approximately +47%-50% damage (given decent amount of Starship Attack Pattern skill) upon activation. Fire on My Mark grants a base of -50 all damage resistance, which is comparable to Attack Pattern Beta 3. As hefty of damage this is, GDF grants an additional 40% damage, scaling even higher with missing health. No doubt people would also activate Tactical Fleet, granting them another additional +30% damage.
This is currently the basic "Alpha Strike" running on holodeck without any other buffs - almost +130% damage and -50 damage resistance.
Now for some common escort abilities...like APO3 that grants an additional 25% damage to all weapons (not to mention immunity to all disables and movement debuffs, movement/turn rate buff, and damage resistance buff). Now we have a total of +155% damage and -50 damage resistance against the unlucky target. These number add up really fast!
I haven't even begun to take in the effects of CRF and Tact. Initiative that grants more DPS and gives them a second chance to sink whatever they missed on the first run (such as an "oh sh*t" RSP activation). Nor have I mentioned the standard stacking of Tact. Consoles that no other ships have. I should probably put in somewhere that Beam Overload also gets an additional 850% damage for that one hit on top of the 155% previously calculated, but that's outside of this thread. (Anyone want to calculate the damage of 1000% a DBB?)
The bottom line is: DHCs only seem to be overpowered because they're the most common weapons on escorts being buffed to insane levels of power.
This is all needed to deal damage to elite STF targets, if you want to complete them in 10-20 minutes , and not 50 minutes.
You need that alpha strike damage in pve.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
True, no nerfs because of bad PR, no buffs because power creep...so TRIBBLE remains TRIBBLE and good remains good. As long as it sells....
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
With the coming changes DHC won't be the go to weapons as much any more anyway.
With the new gaps hello overloads and torps.
I've been using those for a while. You really gotta get that timing down, otherwise it'll bounce off of a buff. Takes a little more effort than just popping on the attack buffs and pew-pewing with 4 DHCs at once.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
This is all needed to deal damage to elite STF targets, if you want to complete them in 10-20 minutes , and not 50 minutes.
You need that alpha strike damage in pve.
You can repeat that as many times as you want...but uh...it won't make it true.
You might need that damage to complete them in 4-5 minutes, but you don't need it to complete them in 10-15 minutes by any means.
Fixed it. In the rest of 95% pvp done, you pretty much neeed TT because you will never get any from anyone.
For straight up pug this is true. I even noticed the KDF has gotten lax on the crossheals except in a strict teaming sense.
Thats a shame. Crosshealing is/was one of our greatest advantages.
You may not need that if you got the best gear...but since you got to do ESTFs to get the best gear your point is kind of meaningless.
It is NOT true, despite your repeated efforts to convince yourself otherwise.
I have a couple toons with max gear and rep. I have a couple without max gear and rep. I have completed eSTFs with all of them, optionals and all. TRIBBLE gear, with an engineer, in a beam boat, in pugs. Some had others in escorts, some did not.
facts is, beams, hell even all turrets, work fantastically well in pve. I always top the DPS chart in eSTFs in a beam boat. DHCs are not as needed in pve as you seem to think they are.
However, nerfing DHCs isn't really the answer. The EPtX change is only going to force cruisers to use 2 copies of EPtS and ignore the rest, only now, everyone who does gets healed every 20 seconds, rather than 30. I have the impossible task right now of trying to punch through any kind of defense with beams or single cannons. DHCs have a hard enough time against a competent cruiser. If there was NO weapon that could punch through current defenses? God, how much would that suck.
My thoughts exactly. DHCs aren't the problem. Alone, their DPS is comparable to 6 beams broadsiding. Besides that, they have a very limited firing arc, and should be given the benefit of having slightly better damage.
The problem lies with the "Alpha Strike". Let's take each component apart and analyze them individually. APA grants approximately +47%-50% damage (given decent amount of Starship Attack Pattern skill) upon activation. Fire on My Mark grants a base of -50 all damage resistance, which is comparable to Attack Pattern Beta 3. As hefty of damage this is, GDF grants an additional 40% damage, scaling even higher with missing health. No doubt people would also activate Tactical Fleet, granting them another additional +30% damage.
This is currently the basic "Alpha Strike" running on holodeck without any other buffs - almost +130% damage and -50 damage resistance.
Now for some common escort abilities...like APO3 that grants an additional 25% damage to all weapons (not to mention immunity to all disables and movement debuffs, movement/turn rate buff, and damage resistance buff). Now we have a total of +155% damage and -50 damage resistance against the unlucky target. These number add up really fast!
I haven't even begun to take in the effects of CRF and Tact. Initiative that grants more DPS and gives them a second chance to sink whatever they missed on the first run (such as an "oh sh*t" RSP activation). Nor have I mentioned the standard stacking of Tact. Consoles that no other ships have. I should probably put in somewhere that Beam Overload also gets an additional 850% damage for that one hit on top of the 155% previously calculated, but that's outside of this thread. (Anyone want to calculate the damage of 1000% a DBB?)
The bottom line is: DHCs only seem to be overpowered because they're the most common weapons on escorts being buffed to insane levels of power.
So making the Tac player class feel and seem useless in every vessel type is the key to making Science and Engineering appear better?
BS
btw, most of those Tac abilities you are so upset about are the Boff abilities that any player can enjoy if they choose a vessel that can slot them.
Nerfing a whole class to appease the others is not an answer
I have to disagree with this. I mean, on so many levels, I have to disagree with this. Cause face it, what are the "selfish" and "selfless' builds? When one looks at the abilities, well - the majority of them are "self/ally" - so it's not really a case of them being "selfish"...
TT, APD, ET, AtS, ST, HE, TSS...they're self/ally.
ExS is ally.
EPtS, RSP, AtD are self.
It's not about the builds in that sense. It's definitely about builds - there are a lot of bad builds; but it's mainly about play - which includes communication. It also includes experience playing together.
You could take your favorite 5-man "selfless" collection of builds and give it to a PUG group...and...it would be a disaster. Say they try to share heals/buffs, eh? What are the odds that they do it at the same time so they're wasted? What are the odds they do it too late? Too early? On the wrong guy? What happens to them should the guy carrying the buff they're not carrying gets taken down?
Calling targets, knowing before hand who's going primarily to be tossing heals, knowing who has what, being aware of where folks are on the field of battle, all that situational awareness and all the rest...yeah...there's far more involved than the builds being "selfish" or "selfless"...
You could take the premade in the "selfish" ships and they would still destroy the PUG in "selfless" ships.
PUGmades...work to an extent because they've got awareness, experience, they communicate to the extent that they can, etc, etc, etc.
If folks that PUG were to make more self-sufficient ships, pay attention to what is going on, have somebody that's leading them - calling targets, etc, etc, etc...that would elevate their level of play.
They might reach the level of a PUGmade with some luck - it happens when folks from OPvP end up in a PUG together without organizing it beforehand...
...they're not going to reach the level of a decent premade any more than the PUGmade would.
There's no making light of the advantages that an actual premade group has against anything other than another premade group.
"Selfish" and "Selfless" builds...? Yeah, nowhere near the beginning of the problems one would encounter in the typical PUG.
Totally agree! Take a pug formed from good players (pandas, tsi, Turks, or just experienced players) and put them against a premade from an average fleet, no matter how shellfish or selfless the build of the premade is, chances are it will loose.
But I don't think jorf wanted to say that. I think he wanted to highlight the stupidity of all those changes for the wrong reasons. And the wrong "typical" and inexperienced pug mentality that uses for ex 2xeps3 and 2xtt and tss on an engi cruiser, all for self usage, without thinking to put an extend or helping a team mate with a TSS, or without even having an engi team.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
I don't think cannons need a nerf as much as beams need parity.
The simplest fix for all weapons is to return the power drain mechanic we used to have.
DHC would take a small nerf unless people swap armor or what ever else they have in there engi slots for a EPS unit or two.
Beams dmg would be acceptable again imo... and engi cruisers for sure would take a nice bump with there eps up.
After that I think people need to get used to dying more often. The amount of time we all have to spawn seems crazy to me... to much shield resist to much defense to much dmg resistance.
This. OR give beams a +1=2.5% inherent CritH pr ACC modifier. Nothing too whacky, but enough to make a difference. It would make more sense, since beam arrays have been shown in Canon to be more "precision"-type weapons.
Comments
Even thouch DHC's list as a -12 energy drain, it returns immediately after the firing cycle, which for cannons is short.
Beams are listed as -10 but due to the longer firing cycle you end up loosing alot of your energy for much longer.
Just that would make the two weapons seem more even.
And the reliance on one or two specific powers to be effective means that the rest must be worthless.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
People who only pug are in a trapped in a vicious circle -- they can't rely on their team so they take greedy, useless fail builds, and that only spreads the problem because now their team cannot rely on them either. If even half of the guys who frequent OPvP decided to take selfless builds into the queues the average level of a pug team would be so much higher.
There are definitely a lot of things that could be done to help pug teams. Lowering the GCD on differing team abilities to 10s would help wonders, as would a distribute shields toggle. That being said, a lot of the blame for the terrible state of pugs in STO rests squarely in the hands of the pugs themselves. When I pug, I take my premade build and I do fine. Am I little bit less self sustainable? Sure. But I'm still more of an asset to the team in a proper build. Hopefully I'm also setting an example for other puggers to be less selfish.
You work with what you have, that's pugging. Taking TT for random Puggin (queue madness) is not being selfsish. Is not being suicidal.
Truth is, DHC crits hit hard torpedoes, without any drawback. They are the most power efficient weapons and the choice of weapon for pretty much anything. If they aren't that OP as some people claim, why everyone want them ? For style ? :rolleyes:
IF we for a moment would forget how does healing/passives look like in STO, do you feel those DHCs are balanced to other weapons ?
?
Yet, they get what they want while PvP twists in the wind. Get off your high horse and start a proper pvp whining campaign. Start by making your own STO podcast
I have to disagree with this. I mean, on so many levels, I have to disagree with this. Cause face it, what are the "selfish" and "selfless' builds? When one looks at the abilities, well - the majority of them are "self/ally" - so it's not really a case of them being "selfish"...
TT, APD, ET, AtS, ST, HE, TSS...they're self/ally.
ExS is ally.
EPtS, RSP, AtD are self.
It's not about the builds in that sense. It's definitely about builds - there are a lot of bad builds; but it's mainly about play - which includes communication. It also includes experience playing together.
You could take your favorite 5-man "selfless" collection of builds and give it to a PUG group...and...it would be a disaster. Say they try to share heals/buffs, eh? What are the odds that they do it at the same time so they're wasted? What are the odds they do it too late? Too early? On the wrong guy? What happens to them should the guy carrying the buff they're not carrying gets taken down?
Calling targets, knowing before hand who's going primarily to be tossing heals, knowing who has what, being aware of where folks are on the field of battle, all that situational awareness and all the rest...yeah...there's far more involved than the builds being "selfish" or "selfless"...
You could take the premade in the "selfish" ships and they would still destroy the PUG in "selfless" ships.
PUGmades...work to an extent because they've got awareness, experience, they communicate to the extent that they can, etc, etc, etc.
If folks that PUG were to make more self-sufficient ships, pay attention to what is going on, have somebody that's leading them - calling targets, etc, etc, etc...that would elevate their level of play.
They might reach the level of a PUGmade with some luck - it happens when folks from OPvP end up in a PUG together without organizing it beforehand...
...they're not going to reach the level of a decent premade any more than the PUGmade would.
There's no making light of the advantages that an actual premade group has against anything other than another premade group.
"Selfish" and "Selfless" builds...? Yeah, nowhere near the beginning of the problems one would encounter in the typical PUG.
Why would I start a PvP whining campaign?
Its painfully obvious most players don't realize this, but most ships in the game DO use DHCs or at least have the option to.
Fed cruisers, science vessels and all their various copy pastes (Gorn sci vessels for example) are the exception in not being able to use DHCs. KDF cruisers can, BoPs can, its only fed cruisers and sci vessels that cannot. TBH I wish they would just let DHCs be mounted on any ship and let people figure out things on their own.
I would imagine its obvious, instead of complaining about the PvE players getting their way by complainign you should get a podcast and start complaining yourself for resources being spent on PvP.
Why not rather make a heavy beam array instead giving DHCs to everyone ? More options, we wan' more options. I do not wan't my galaxy or nebula to shoot quazilions of beams per volley, I would be fairly happy with few big hiiters that are much more energy efficient.
Maybe introduce heavy beam array for large ships ? Escorts have DHC, Large ships Heavy beams, normal beams and single cannons for everyone.
This wierd, seldom used concept of bringing the other two classes up would leave the causal and beginning (or alting) players capable of still contributing to PVE.
Because lets face it, do escorts and tacticals come from the tutorial out with Mark XII sets, fleet weapons, tier 5 reputation etc?
No, they do not. And nerfing them would put all the non-maxed out tacticals out of business.
Also, this is an idea I heard on the forums, its not mine but its one I like :
Give dual heavy beam banks, beam turrets, wide angle torpedoes and short angle torpedo, or even torpedo turret weapons into the game. (Or heavy beam arrays, as mentioned above in the previous post)
A broadside with 6 beam arrays and 2 wide angle torpedoes would really help the cruiser's damage dealing ability.
Also, giving Cruisers and Carriers some better turn rate may help too.
While the nerf to GDF is bad, I think it should be reversed. Some people need that damage to be able to get better gear
Nerfing the tactical ability will just put more pain into the ESTF system, while buffing the weaker Photonic fleet and Nadion inversion abilities would help it.
This is another thing that a lot of "idea people" on the forum do not know.
Not all players are maxed out super elite PVPers.
Balancing the game for these "best of the best 5%" would really make it unplayable for the rest.
Also... remember Cryptic shares a trait with the late Relic Entertainment. When they nerf or buff, they sometimes overdo it.
Do we really want them to nerf the damage dealers into oblivion? That will mean pain for the STFs as well as the pvp (With nobody ever dying, as mentioned above) .
Obviously you could turn that around and talk about problems of beam arrays instead of advantages of dhcs. But its not just one thing its the combo off all that.
We tried, the result was that the head system designer told us - beams are working as designed.
57.4% Can
42.6% Can't
Qualifies as "most"...
Complaining about PvE players getting their way? Again, I'm not sure what you're talking about...I'm guessing you've mistaken me with somebody else or read something you believe I said that I didn't.
My thoughts exactly. DHCs aren't the problem. Alone, their DPS is comparable to 6 beams broadsiding. Besides that, they have a very limited firing arc, and should be given the benefit of having slightly better damage.
The problem lies with the "Alpha Strike". Let's take each component apart and analyze them individually. APA grants approximately +47%-50% damage (given decent amount of Starship Attack Pattern skill) upon activation. Fire on My Mark grants a base of -50 all damage resistance, which is comparable to Attack Pattern Beta 3. As hefty of damage this is, GDF grants an additional 40% damage, scaling even higher with missing health. No doubt people would also activate Tactical Fleet, granting them another additional +30% damage.
This is currently the basic "Alpha Strike" running on holodeck without any other buffs - almost +130% damage and -50 damage resistance.
Now for some common escort abilities...like APO3 that grants an additional 25% damage to all weapons (not to mention immunity to all disables and movement debuffs, movement/turn rate buff, and damage resistance buff). Now we have a total of +155% damage and -50 damage resistance against the unlucky target. These number add up really fast!
I haven't even begun to take in the effects of CRF and Tact. Initiative that grants more DPS and gives them a second chance to sink whatever they missed on the first run (such as an "oh sh*t" RSP activation). Nor have I mentioned the standard stacking of Tact. Consoles that no other ships have. I should probably put in somewhere that Beam Overload also gets an additional 850% damage for that one hit on top of the 155% previously calculated, but that's outside of this thread. (Anyone want to calculate the damage of 1000% a DBB?)
The bottom line is: DHCs only seem to be overpowered because they're the most common weapons on escorts being buffed to insane levels of power.
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
This is all needed to deal damage to elite STF targets, if you want to complete them in 10-20 minutes , and not 50 minutes.
You need that alpha strike damage in pve.
Cover your enemy in foam darts. 10% chance to proc "ah my eye" -30%accuracy for 10 seconds
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
...he also told us in very clear words that he ain't approving nerfs to anything. Kudos to all those who haven't given up.
Still would love to see him in his engie beam boat 1v1 and tell me this is WAD
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
I've been using those for a while. You really gotta get that timing down, otherwise it'll bounce off of a buff. Takes a little more effort than just popping on the attack buffs and pew-pewing with 4 DHCs at once.
You can repeat that as many times as you want...but uh...it won't make it true.
You might need that damage to complete them in 4-5 minutes, but you don't need it to complete them in 10-15 minutes by any means.
It is true, despite what you say.
You may not need that if you got the best gear...but since you got to do ESTFs to get the best gear your point is kind of meaningless.
For straight up pug this is true. I even noticed the KDF has gotten lax on the crossheals except in a strict teaming sense.
Thats a shame. Crosshealing is/was one of our greatest advantages.
R.I.P
It is NOT true, despite your repeated efforts to convince yourself otherwise.
I have a couple toons with max gear and rep. I have a couple without max gear and rep. I have completed eSTFs with all of them, optionals and all. TRIBBLE gear, with an engineer, in a beam boat, in pugs. Some had others in escorts, some did not.
facts is, beams, hell even all turrets, work fantastically well in pve. I always top the DPS chart in eSTFs in a beam boat. DHCs are not as needed in pve as you seem to think they are.
However, nerfing DHCs isn't really the answer. The EPtX change is only going to force cruisers to use 2 copies of EPtS and ignore the rest, only now, everyone who does gets healed every 20 seconds, rather than 30. I have the impossible task right now of trying to punch through any kind of defense with beams or single cannons. DHCs have a hard enough time against a competent cruiser. If there was NO weapon that could punch through current defenses? God, how much would that suck.
So making the Tac player class feel and seem useless in every vessel type is the key to making Science and Engineering appear better?
BS
btw, most of those Tac abilities you are so upset about are the Boff abilities that any player can enjoy if they choose a vessel that can slot them.
Nerfing a whole class to appease the others is not an answer
R.I.P
Really Tac's did get a nerf with GDF requiring you to be half dead, which makes sense given what the ability is supposed to be.
The only other thing that needs looked at is weather or not tac captain's buffs should affect a science/engineering ability's damage.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Totally agree! Take a pug formed from good players (pandas, tsi, Turks, or just experienced players) and put them against a premade from an average fleet, no matter how shellfish or selfless the build of the premade is, chances are it will loose.
But I don't think jorf wanted to say that. I think he wanted to highlight the stupidity of all those changes for the wrong reasons. And the wrong "typical" and inexperienced pug mentality that uses for ex 2xeps3 and 2xtt and tss on an engi cruiser, all for self usage, without thinking to put an extend or helping a team mate with a TSS, or without even having an engi team.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
This. OR give beams a +1=2.5% inherent CritH pr ACC modifier. Nothing too whacky, but enough to make a difference. It would make more sense, since beam arrays have been shown in Canon to be more "precision"-type weapons.
thats what happened to science.
remember when they got hit hard because neither of the classes where "able" to keep up? science is still reeling from that blow from over 2 years ago.
Do you even Science Bro?