I must admit the ability for the Romulans to play iether iconic KDF or fed ships is a little wierd to my mind as well.
Weird I will agree to, and it's certainly not what I'd prefer. But an earlier poster suggested it could only be justified by having the RSE take over the two other factions.... and that just seems like outrageous hyperbole to me.
Tell me, why exactly should it be so inconceivable that the Federation would loan top of the line vessels to an ally that's spent the past 50 levels earning their trust?
And please, spare me any real world analogies. I don't care about stealth bombers and talking about stealth bombers does not advance this discussion.
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:blink:
Who would do that? Who, in any setting -fictional or real- has ever given their best technology away to a brand new ally that has spent decades trying to destroy them?
From a game design standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Nobody here is arguing otherwise. But I promise you that in Star Trek lore you will not be spending 50 levels earning anything because there are no levels in Star Trek - just in Star Trek Online. From a lore standpoint it is laughable at best.
This is what I keep having to remind people - we're not talking about the same thing. You are speaking to me about a game and I am speaking to you about a fictional world. We cannot communicate like that. So you are arguing game mechanics and I am arguing lore. They aren't the same thing. Please don't confuse them.
Weird I will agree to, and it's certainly not what I'd prefer. But an earlier poster suggested it could only be justified by having the RSE take over the two other factions.... and that just seems like outrageous hyperbole to me.
Outrageous hyperbole?!? Not going to happen, ever, is more like it!
And the hundred nearly identical threads on the same subject that have been coming every week or two since launch.
Yes, they have haven't they. The first one I read was on borg BOFFs. I've even read on on tribbles. The ship ones were the first ones I actually agreed with. The Romulan ones I strongly agree with. I think we all see the same trend here. Some of us care, some of us don't care. I can be allowed to care, others can be allowed to not care. There's no reason to argue that my opinion shouldn't be my opinion. The premise is silly to begin with.
From a buisness standpoint, it makes perfect sense.
Fixed for you. It's obvious cryptic isn't willing to invest in Romulan ships even more, and wants to be able to tell players "go pick your allies ships instead of asking for more variety and STFU".
Fixed for you. It's obvious cryptic isn't willing to invest in Romulan ships even more, and wants to be able to tell players "go pick your allies ships instead of asking for more variety and STFU".
Fixed for you. It's obvious cryptic isn't willing to invest in Romulan ships even more, and wants to be able to tell players "go pick your allies ships instead of asking for more variety and STFU".
But that's what I don't get. They have the opportunity to force everyone into brand new ships with zero negative repercussions, and they aren't taking it? WTF?
Many metric yonks ago it was decided that outside of lockbox ships, factions would retain their respective ships, and all was good. You obviously don't intend on having Klinks in Mirandas, and Feds in BoPs, so why are we even opening that door? What makes Romulans the exception now?
I just think that Cryptic is painting themselves into a very unpleasant corner with this.
1. It makes the Federation and Klingons less unique. It really does. Most of the game takes place in space with your ship. They're the biggest part of the game, and one of it's largest draws. This is why you aren't letting Feds and Klinks fly each others ships, so I really question the reasoning behind it.
2. It makes the Romulans less unique. I've already spent dozens of weekends and hundreds of hours with the other two kinds of ships. Doesn't seem like a good idea when the whole point of a new faction is a "new" experience.
3. It's going to make Cryptic less money. They have an opportunity to force people to buy entirely new T5 ships, and people are going to be completely cool with that, and they aren't going to take it!?!??!Why?
4. There would be no excuse to not have T5 Constitutions, Mirandas, Oberths, or D-7s. When a Romulan Farmer can pilot the pride of a nation, there's really no excuse anymore.
5. Now Feds and Klinks are going to want each others ships. And is that a can you really want to open? I wouldn't
6. Besides, those new Romulan ships look super kickass. Why would you even want us to fly anything else?
Everything else looks so good. I don't want this to ruin it all. And it would.
I think you're entitled to your thoughts on lore, which I wouldn't really disagree with here. But I think every one of your financial observations are dead wrong.
Separating purchases from Fed purchases yields fewer sales and less money and that is what will unshakably drive Cryptic down this route.
What has happened is that Klingons items make less money and are therefore less worth making. But the flip side is that with fewer purchase options, the average Klingon also spends less. And the ideal would be for a faction that is only 20% of the player base to spend 4x as much per player, not less. You want them basically to purchase every Fed release and then their own faction stuff as extras.
Now what would probably work best for Cryptic, totally ignoring lore, is to open Fed C-Store purchases to everyone. It would increase the number of sales. It would also encourage Feds to roll alts of other factions, improving the odds of makng extra sales pitches. But they're making compromises here to support the idea of a Klingon faction by trying to channel Romulan players that direction.
Why? The OP said it. It was in fact the entire POINT to that thread.
And the hundred nearly identical threads on the same subject that have been coming every week or two since launch.
You should have said it there because it might have saved the thread from going off track. People listen to the mods. You also should have said it there so I wouldn't feel bad wanting to discuss it with you here.
But that's what I don't get. They have the opportunity to force everyone into brand new ships with zero negative repercussions, and they aren't taking it? WTF?
They probably want to make sure enough people will create romulan characters first. But if the allied faction ship feature goes live then it's not going to be removed.
I am not exactly certain of your point when that particular show is still on the air and won an Emmy last year - and as of last night won it's time slot; in fact having more viewers than Fox, ABC, and NBC's shows combined on at the same time.
But that's what I don't get. They have the opportunity to force everyone into brand new ships with zero negative repercussions, and they aren't taking it? WTF?
What makes you think there's zero repercussions? You think just because you're willing to fork over hundreds of dollars for more ships that everyone is? Cryptic is giving players the opportunity to not spend hundreds more just to play a Rom and you're mad at them.
Humans: pyssed when they have to spend money and pyssed when they don't.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
They probably want to make sure enough people will create romulan characters first. But if the allied faction ship feature goes live then it's not going to be removed.
Which is why one of my big focuses with feedback (especially with a shot motherboard that prevents direct testing) is ways to adjust this idea without tossing it. Cryptic won't rollback this idea but they may look at how it's done as long as it doesn't discourage Romulans from buying Fed and Klingon C-Store ships.
I am not exactly certain of your point when that particular show is still on the air and won an Emmy last year - and as of last night won it's time slot; in fact having more viewers than Fox, ABC, and NBC's shows combined on at the same time.
What makes you think there's zero repercussions? You think just because you're willing to fork over hundreds of dollars for more ships that everyone is? Cryptic is giving players the opportunity to not spend hundreds more just to play a Rom and you're mad at them.
Humans: pyssed when they have to spend money and pyssed when they don't.
And if new Romulan players can't use old Fed or KDF ships, they won't buy them. Hence lost sales for Cryptic.
Which is why one of my big focuses with feedback (especially with a shot motherboard that prevents direct testing) is ways to adjust this idea without tossing it. Cryptic won't rollback this idea but they may look at how it's done as long as it doesn't discourage Romulans from buying Fed and Klingon C-Store ships.
On the other hand, showing players that you only care about ship sales whatever the consequences are for the community and your new content and don't want to finish the job isn't very professional. :P
If I want to pilot a Fed or KDF ship, then I will use a Fed or KDF character. The main advantage of being a Romulan is that we get Warbirds and deciding to pilot other ships diminishes a huge part of being a Romulan. Fed Romulans suffer more from this than KDF Romulans since there are only 2 cloaked Fed ships due to the Subterfuge trait.
I think you're entitled to your thoughts on lore, which I wouldn't really disagree with here. But I think every one of your financial observations are dead wrong.
Separating purchases from Fed purchases yields fewer sales and less money and that is what will unshakably drive Cryptic down this route.
What has happened is that Klingons items make less money and are therefore less worth making. But the flip side is that with fewer purchase options, the average Klingon also spends less. And the ideal would be for a faction that is only 20% of the player base to spend 4x as much per player, not less. You want them basically to purchase every Fed release and then their own faction stuff as extras.
Now what would probably work best for Cryptic, totally ignoring lore, is to open Fed C-Store purchases to everyone. It would increase the number of sales. It would also encourage Feds to roll alts of other factions, improving the odds of makng extra sales pitches. But they're making compromises here to support the idea of a Klingon faction by trying to channel Romulan players that direction.
Just make it so you can claim the consoles on other factions, and increase the number of cross faction purchases. PROBLEM SOLVED.
What makes you think there's zero repercussions? You think just because you're willing to fork over hundreds of dollars for more ships that everyone is? Cryptic is giving players the opportunity to not spend hundreds more just to play a Rom and you're mad at them.
Yes, Cryptic is giving players the opportunity to not spend hundreds of dollars to play a Romulan, but that's the problem right there. I'm not going to play a Romulan. I was against them when the poll first came out. (And that poll was BS by the way)
My one question to the people that created 20 different accounts to vote in that poll; "Welp, we got your Country Hick, Federation Minion, Galaxy flying Romulans! Are ya happy?":mad:
They could have given Romulan ships to Feds and the KDF, and it would have made little difference. So yes, I am mad at them. This could have been an opportunity to add sneaky, devious, warmongers to this game, instead we get another Federation. Does that make a whole lot of sense to you?
They could have given Romulan ships to Feds and the KDF, and it would have made little difference. So yes, I am mad at them. This could have been an opportunity to add sneaky, devious, warmongers to this game, instead we get another Federation. Does that make a whole lot of sense to you?
Because another federation is cheaper to build. You can make more cross-faction gear and content. Expect a Cardassian Republic, a Borg Republic, a Jem'hadar Republic, an Undine Republic, and any other nonsense you may imagine. :rolleyes:
-EDIT- At best, I will give you, "It's a very far stretch" to say that anybody would share their most important defenses with a brand new ally who was a long-time enemy just yesterday without them sharing theirs' in return. It's laughable at best; it's lore-breaking at worst. If you actually address the issue and don't try to write it off with I don't care about canon, Cryptic doesn't care about canon and CBS doesn't really care about canon either, there's not really much there to argue with. Unless of course, you believe that opinions are not allowed.
I would only point out that in canon the Romulans traded their cloaking technology - arguably the most powerful technology in the alpha/beta quadrant - to the Klingons. That is no more "laughable" then the Feds giving Unification Roms T5 Excelsiors and all the rest of the ship technology.
Trek isn't the real universe. It's full of strange occurrences like that. We accept that as canon because CBS said it happened. We're talking about a universe were ancient B'rel full of Ferengis captured the Enterprise D.
Where talking about a universe where a Captain commanding an old and outdated ship for over 20 years was brought up for court martial and then given command of the Flagship of the Federation.
None of it makes sense if you think about it too much: not CBS's canon, nor STO's.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I'm not going to play a Romulan. I was against them when the poll first came out. (And that poll was BS by the way)
That's a stupid argument and you know it. The Romulans are clearly the 3rd big Faction in the Trek universe. The Trek trinity has always been Federation, Klingons, and Romulans. There was never another choice for a third Faction other then Romulans.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
That's the thing, in all MMOs you need to effectively ignore other players when it comes to the story. There aren't a zillion rescues of the Azura, or thousands of uber-dragons killed, just one. So in that sense, everything is 'exceptional' - even if it looks odd.
When I am rescuing the Azura there aren't 1000 other players in my same instance doing the same thing at the same time.
If I can't see it its not immersion breaking.
So if you are suggesting adding a toggle that hides all players not in their native factions ships from appearing in game at all, and preventing us from being grouped with them in the queue system, I'm all for it.
The game is supposed to be Star Trek Online, not Do WTF Ever you want Online. I think there is already a great amount of flexibility with ships, more than there should be, but lets not cross the line by letting factions fly other factions ships. If they want to let Romulans use the consoles from Fed/KDf C-Store ships, thats fine, but not the ships.
I don't know why people have such an obsession with numbers. If the Romulans only have 15 ships, who cares, as long as they fill all the roles and are competitive with the other factions.
Who would do that? Who, in any setting -fictional or real- has ever given their best technology away to a brand new ally that has spent decades trying to destroy them?
I accept your admission that you can't give a reason, good or bad, in the spirit in which it was given. And while I am sad that, when given a platform to outline your reasons, you find yourself only able to request an analogy, I feel I've adequately proven my point by giving you the chance to totally fail at adequately making yours.
we're not talking about the same thing.
No, we are. I asked you to give me a reason within the confines of the fictional world. You've failed to.
But since I believe this discussion actually deserves more than you're giving it, I'll go on to say something more in this vein.
At their absolute largest and most unified The Romulan Star Empire was always the smallest of the big three powers in the Alpha-Beta quadrants. They've always held fewer systems than the Klingon Empire or The Federation, they have the smallest populations, they have the smallest fleets, and this was before their home world was destroyed, a costly war with the Klingon Empire, and two civil wars. Now, the Romulan Republic is not even the majority of what's left. From a game mechanic standpoint we might see the Romulan Republic some day being as large a faction as the Federation or Klingons, but from the in-game lore, the Romulan Republic is simply miniscule in size and influence.
How does this play into the topic of the Klingons and Federation giving top of the line ships ships to the Romulan Republic. Well, it's very simple, even at their miniscule size the Romulan people have a level of technological sophistication on par, or beyond, that of the Federation and Klingon Empire. In essence, what they learn from Federation ships will be limited at best and is easily considered part of the implied trade being made when Starfleet and KDF personnel started receiving Romulan tech. As for the ships themselves, surely arming the Romulan Republic with ships would be a danger to the Federation and Empire, well, not really. Again compared to the weight of the Federation and the current Klingon Empire, the Romulan Republic is small indeed. Add to that that these ships are most likely going to be used against hostile forces in the Imperial Romulan government and these ships can be considered an investment into confounding your enemies.
I find the lack of consistency in STO as a whole rather baffling.
Think about it: we start off as Ensigns who are promoted to full Lieutenants and given command of a starship. This would suggest that the Federation is suffering from a manpower shortage but not a starship shortage, if they're giving starships to junior officers.
However, we also see the Federation appropriating the starships of other species, and even other times and universes, and placing Federation captains in command of these ships, suggesting the opposite -- excess of (highly qualified!) manpower but not enough ships.
And now we are giving Federation starships over to some struggling upstart of a Romulan faction. In the shows, the Federation has displayed great trepidation at handing over even hand phasers to non-Federation governments, let alone modern and powerful Starships.
The obvious answer is that it is just a game, and Cryptic treats it as just a game. Allowing the Romulans to fly Fed/KDF ships means they can hold more Romulan ships back for the C-Store. Frankly, I find it hard to get upset about this, given that I rarely enter an STF with more than one (maybe two?) other actual Starfleet ships. I'm usually outnumbered by Jem'hadar or Breen ships these days whenever I go into a group.
Because another federation is cheaper to build. You can make more cross-faction gear and content. Expect a Cardassian Republic, a Borg Republic, a Jem'hadar Republic, an Undine Republic, and any other nonsense you may imagine. :rolleyes:
You can make Cross Faction gear and content without making another Federation. Strikes me as a lack of imagination.
That's a stupid argument and you know it. The Romulans are clearly the 3rd big Faction in the Trek universe. The Trek trinity has always been Federation, Klingons, and Romulans. There was never another choice for a third Faction other then Romulans.
Trinity Shminity. I know that they're the big three in Star Trek, but they aren't in STO. They're something entirely different from what they were in Star Trek. Though I'm beginning to wonder if Factions in general was a mistake, ideas for another day I suppose.
(and yes, that poll was BS, people even admitted that they had voted more than once, in that thread even~!)
The obvious answer is that it is just a game, and Cryptic treats it as just a game. Allowing the Romulans to fly Fed/KDF ships means they can hold more Romulan ships back for the C-Store. Frankly, I find it hard to get upset about this, given that I rarely enter an STF with more than one (maybe two?) other actual Starfleet ships. I'm usually outnumbered by Jem'hadar or Breen ships these days whenever I go into a group.
Personally, I doubt that they have any sort of direction at all with STO. I really am starting to believe that every time they start making something it's because of "Hey, this sounds like a good idea!" rather than having any sort of goal.
Think about it: we start off as Ensigns who are promoted to full Lieutenants and given command of a starship. This would suggest that the Federation is suffering from a manpower shortage but not a starship shortage, if they're giving starships to junior officers.
While I agree with much of your post - especially the part about it only being a game - I would only say that, historically, most naval officers in command of a ship are seldom of Captain rank. For example, most Submarine "Captains" are only Commander Rank - and their XO is generally a Lt Commander. It's quite common to see Lieutenants and Lt. Commanders in command of less vital warships.
It would not be uncommon at all to see a Lieutenant get command of a small destroyer, similar to a Miranda Class in Trek, in the real navy - especially in a time of war.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Being prior military, I have first hand experience with the protection of military technology. We have basic technologies that we won't share with allies because we can't ensure that they won't give them to our enemies. The idea that anybody would GIVE AWAY the best military technology that they had is simply not even slightly realistic - despite what CBS says.
You don't have to care. I'm not asking you to. But please stop telling me I should suspend my disbelief because CBS said so. Why can't you not care about my opinion as much as you don't care about STO lore? :rolleyes:
Personally, I doubt that they have any sort of direction at all with STO. I really am starting to believe that every time they start making something it's because of "Hey, this sounds like a good idea!" rather than having any sort of goal.
It's pretty clear they had a goal in mind for a long time. Everything that has been worked on for the last year has been to get a Romulan micro-faction into the game - which is something DStahl talked about over a year ago.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Why can't you not care about my opinion as much as you don't care about STO lore? :rolleyes:
Probably because you keep trying to base everything in Star Trek on how it works in the real world - and that has never been the case in any of the TV episodes or movies.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Probably because you keep trying to base everything in Star Trek on how it works in the real world - and that has never been the case in any of the TV episodes or movies.
Everything? Hardly. One thing, yes.
To copy you, that's a stupid argument and you know it. You do know what science fiction is right? Fiction based on science? We have pretty good scientific evidence to suggest that nobody in their right mind would ever GIVE AWAY their best military technology for nothing to a sworn enemy freshly turned ally. If you're having trouble with this, try looking up the definition of science fiction and scientific observation - that should help you understand science a bit more so you don't get so hung up on the fiction part because, as Isaac Asimov said, they temper each other. If you drop the science you only have fiction.
You seem to think that I am not allowed to have my opinion. Why are you then so clearly entitled to having your own opinion? Why is it so superior to all other opinions? Please explain your superiority to we poor inferior infidels on the STO forum who should dare not agree with you. Explain your brilliant, superlative, gaseous, genius to us oh great cosmic one.
Comments
Weird I will agree to, and it's certainly not what I'd prefer. But an earlier poster suggested it could only be justified by having the RSE take over the two other factions.... and that just seems like outrageous hyperbole to me.
Why? The OP said it. It was in fact the entire POINT to that thread.
And the hundred nearly identical threads on the same subject that have been coming every week or two since launch.
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:blink:
Who would do that? Who, in any setting -fictional or real- has ever given their best technology away to a brand new ally that has spent decades trying to destroy them?
From a game design standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Nobody here is arguing otherwise. But I promise you that in Star Trek lore you will not be spending 50 levels earning anything because there are no levels in Star Trek - just in Star Trek Online. From a lore standpoint it is laughable at best.
This is what I keep having to remind people - we're not talking about the same thing. You are speaking to me about a game and I am speaking to you about a fictional world. We cannot communicate like that. So you are arguing game mechanics and I am arguing lore. They aren't the same thing. Please don't confuse them.
Outrageous hyperbole?!? Not going to happen, ever, is more like it!
Yes, they have haven't they. The first one I read was on borg BOFFs. I've even read on on tribbles. The ship ones were the first ones I actually agreed with. The Romulan ones I strongly agree with. I think we all see the same trend here. Some of us care, some of us don't care. I can be allowed to care, others can be allowed to not care. There's no reason to argue that my opinion shouldn't be my opinion. The premise is silly to begin with.
Of course it is never going to happen. That was the point. :rolleyes:
Fixed for you. It's obvious cryptic isn't willing to invest in Romulan ships even more, and wants to be able to tell players "go pick your allies ships instead of asking for more variety and STFU".
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
I bow to you good sir. You are correct.
But that iron-clad reason ain't so iron-clad no more now is it? :P
And not everything CBS approves is a good idea.
But that's what I don't get. They have the opportunity to force everyone into brand new ships with zero negative repercussions, and they aren't taking it? WTF?
I think you're entitled to your thoughts on lore, which I wouldn't really disagree with here. But I think every one of your financial observations are dead wrong.
Separating purchases from Fed purchases yields fewer sales and less money and that is what will unshakably drive Cryptic down this route.
What has happened is that Klingons items make less money and are therefore less worth making. But the flip side is that with fewer purchase options, the average Klingon also spends less. And the ideal would be for a faction that is only 20% of the player base to spend 4x as much per player, not less. You want them basically to purchase every Fed release and then their own faction stuff as extras.
Now what would probably work best for Cryptic, totally ignoring lore, is to open Fed C-Store purchases to everyone. It would increase the number of sales. It would also encourage Feds to roll alts of other factions, improving the odds of makng extra sales pitches. But they're making compromises here to support the idea of a Klingon faction by trying to channel Romulan players that direction.
You should have said it there because it might have saved the thread from going off track. People listen to the mods. You also should have said it there so I wouldn't feel bad wanting to discuss it with you here.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
They probably want to make sure enough people will create romulan characters first. But if the allied faction ship feature goes live then it's not going to be removed.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
What makes you think there's zero repercussions? You think just because you're willing to fork over hundreds of dollars for more ships that everyone is? Cryptic is giving players the opportunity to not spend hundreds more just to play a Rom and you're mad at them.
Humans: pyssed when they have to spend money and pyssed when they don't.
Which is why one of my big focuses with feedback (especially with a shot motherboard that prevents direct testing) is ways to adjust this idea without tossing it. Cryptic won't rollback this idea but they may look at how it's done as long as it doesn't discourage Romulans from buying Fed and Klingon C-Store ships.
And if new Romulan players can't use old Fed or KDF ships, they won't buy them. Hence lost sales for Cryptic.
On the other hand, showing players that you only care about ship sales whatever the consequences are for the community and your new content and don't want to finish the job isn't very professional. :P
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Just make it so you can claim the consoles on other factions, and increase the number of cross faction purchases. PROBLEM SOLVED.
(But seriously, more Cross Faction stuff plz)
Yes, Cryptic is giving players the opportunity to not spend hundreds of dollars to play a Romulan, but that's the problem right there. I'm not going to play a Romulan. I was against them when the poll first came out. (And that poll was BS by the way)
My one question to the people that created 20 different accounts to vote in that poll; "Welp, we got your Country Hick, Federation Minion, Galaxy flying Romulans! Are ya happy?":mad:
They could have given Romulan ships to Feds and the KDF, and it would have made little difference. So yes, I am mad at them. This could have been an opportunity to add sneaky, devious, warmongers to this game, instead we get another Federation. Does that make a whole lot of sense to you?
Because another federation is cheaper to build. You can make more cross-faction gear and content. Expect a Cardassian Republic, a Borg Republic, a Jem'hadar Republic, an Undine Republic, and any other nonsense you may imagine. :rolleyes:
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Trek isn't the real universe. It's full of strange occurrences like that. We accept that as canon because CBS said it happened. We're talking about a universe were ancient B'rel full of Ferengis captured the Enterprise D.
Where talking about a universe where a Captain commanding an old and outdated ship for over 20 years was brought up for court martial and then given command of the Flagship of the Federation.
None of it makes sense if you think about it too much: not CBS's canon, nor STO's.
When I am rescuing the Azura there aren't 1000 other players in my same instance doing the same thing at the same time.
If I can't see it its not immersion breaking.
So if you are suggesting adding a toggle that hides all players not in their native factions ships from appearing in game at all, and preventing us from being grouped with them in the queue system, I'm all for it.
The game is supposed to be Star Trek Online, not Do WTF Ever you want Online. I think there is already a great amount of flexibility with ships, more than there should be, but lets not cross the line by letting factions fly other factions ships. If they want to let Romulans use the consoles from Fed/KDf C-Store ships, thats fine, but not the ships.
I don't know why people have such an obsession with numbers. If the Romulans only have 15 ships, who cares, as long as they fill all the roles and are competitive with the other factions.
I accept your admission that you can't give a reason, good or bad, in the spirit in which it was given. And while I am sad that, when given a platform to outline your reasons, you find yourself only able to request an analogy, I feel I've adequately proven my point by giving you the chance to totally fail at adequately making yours.
No, we are. I asked you to give me a reason within the confines of the fictional world. You've failed to.
But since I believe this discussion actually deserves more than you're giving it, I'll go on to say something more in this vein.
At their absolute largest and most unified The Romulan Star Empire was always the smallest of the big three powers in the Alpha-Beta quadrants. They've always held fewer systems than the Klingon Empire or The Federation, they have the smallest populations, they have the smallest fleets, and this was before their home world was destroyed, a costly war with the Klingon Empire, and two civil wars. Now, the Romulan Republic is not even the majority of what's left. From a game mechanic standpoint we might see the Romulan Republic some day being as large a faction as the Federation or Klingons, but from the in-game lore, the Romulan Republic is simply miniscule in size and influence.
How does this play into the topic of the Klingons and Federation giving top of the line ships ships to the Romulan Republic. Well, it's very simple, even at their miniscule size the Romulan people have a level of technological sophistication on par, or beyond, that of the Federation and Klingon Empire. In essence, what they learn from Federation ships will be limited at best and is easily considered part of the implied trade being made when Starfleet and KDF personnel started receiving Romulan tech. As for the ships themselves, surely arming the Romulan Republic with ships would be a danger to the Federation and Empire, well, not really. Again compared to the weight of the Federation and the current Klingon Empire, the Romulan Republic is small indeed. Add to that that these ships are most likely going to be used against hostile forces in the Imperial Romulan government and these ships can be considered an investment into confounding your enemies.
Think about it: we start off as Ensigns who are promoted to full Lieutenants and given command of a starship. This would suggest that the Federation is suffering from a manpower shortage but not a starship shortage, if they're giving starships to junior officers.
However, we also see the Federation appropriating the starships of other species, and even other times and universes, and placing Federation captains in command of these ships, suggesting the opposite -- excess of (highly qualified!) manpower but not enough ships.
And now we are giving Federation starships over to some struggling upstart of a Romulan faction. In the shows, the Federation has displayed great trepidation at handing over even hand phasers to non-Federation governments, let alone modern and powerful Starships.
The obvious answer is that it is just a game, and Cryptic treats it as just a game. Allowing the Romulans to fly Fed/KDF ships means they can hold more Romulan ships back for the C-Store. Frankly, I find it hard to get upset about this, given that I rarely enter an STF with more than one (maybe two?) other actual Starfleet ships. I'm usually outnumbered by Jem'hadar or Breen ships these days whenever I go into a group.
You can make Cross Faction gear and content without making another Federation. Strikes me as a lack of imagination.
Trinity Shminity. I know that they're the big three in Star Trek, but they aren't in STO. They're something entirely different from what they were in Star Trek. Though I'm beginning to wonder if Factions in general was a mistake, ideas for another day I suppose.
(and yes, that poll was BS, people even admitted that they had voted more than once, in that thread even~!)
Personally, I doubt that they have any sort of direction at all with STO. I really am starting to believe that every time they start making something it's because of "Hey, this sounds like a good idea!" rather than having any sort of goal.
It would not be uncommon at all to see a Lieutenant get command of a small destroyer, similar to a Miranda Class in Trek, in the real navy - especially in a time of war.
Being prior military, I have first hand experience with the protection of military technology. We have basic technologies that we won't share with allies because we can't ensure that they won't give them to our enemies. The idea that anybody would GIVE AWAY the best military technology that they had is simply not even slightly realistic - despite what CBS says.
You don't have to care. I'm not asking you to. But please stop telling me I should suspend my disbelief because CBS said so. Why can't you not care about my opinion as much as you don't care about STO lore? :rolleyes:
Everything? Hardly. One thing, yes.
To copy you, that's a stupid argument and you know it. You do know what science fiction is right? Fiction based on science? We have pretty good scientific evidence to suggest that nobody in their right mind would ever GIVE AWAY their best military technology for nothing to a sworn enemy freshly turned ally. If you're having trouble with this, try looking up the definition of science fiction and scientific observation - that should help you understand science a bit more so you don't get so hung up on the fiction part because, as Isaac Asimov said, they temper each other. If you drop the science you only have fiction.
You seem to think that I am not allowed to have my opinion. Why are you then so clearly entitled to having your own opinion? Why is it so superior to all other opinions? Please explain your superiority to we poor inferior infidels on the STO forum who should dare not agree with you. Explain your brilliant, superlative, gaseous, genius to us oh great cosmic one.